From: IN%"dawn.leblanc@agric.gov.ab.ca" 31-MAR-1998 10:09:09.28 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Urolithiasis and Behaviour I agree that ethology need not be a narrow topic (and in fact, by its nature, I don't believe that it could be a narrow topic) but I do believe that it should be made clear why discussion of disease be brought up on an ethology discussion group. There are discussion groups that focus on disease without bringing in ethology. L. Dawn LeBlanc Coordinator, Alberta Quality Pork Program #204 J.G. O'Donoghue Building 7000 - 113 Street Edmonton, Alberta T6H 5T6 E-mail: dawn.leblanc@agric.gov.ab.ca From: IN%"Susanne.Waiblinger@vu-wien.ac.at" "Susanne Waiblinger" 31-MAR-1998 11:01:44.95 To: IN%"uds-vete@salvador.edu.ar" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"rr25@cus.cam.ac.uk", IN%"olsen@virgil.ruc.dk" Subj: RE: Columba Livia control Below some references dealing with the regulation of street pigeons, within others the program in Basel, Switzerland. From research in Basel and other there is evidence that for longterm regulation the only successful way is to reduce feeding. In Basel the prohibition of feeding was combined with big effort to inform people on the causes of this prohibition (e.g. negative effects on pigeons welfare because of high population density) and with the possibility to feed pigeons in some special places with dovecot, where additionally breeding is under control. For this program see: Haag-Wackernagel, D. Regulation of the street pigeon in Basel. Wildlife Society Bulletin 23:256-260, 1995. For discussion both of local control systems for buildings and for population reduction see ( in German, sorry I don't know English ones): Haag-Wackernagel, D.(1997) Bestandesregulierung bei Strassentauben. IN: Das Buch vom Tierschutz, H.H.Sambraus und A.Steiger (Hrsg.). Ferdinand Enke Verlag Stuttgart, 776-785 Dimigen, J. Tierschutzgerechte Regulierung verwilderter Stadttauben. Deutsche tier=E4rztliche Wochenschrift 93:492-495, 1986. Furher references: Haag, D. Population density as a regulator of mortality among eggs and nestlings of feral pigeons in Basel, Switzerland. In: Nestling mortality of granivorous birds due to microorganisms and toxic substances, edited by Pinowski, J. and et al.PWN Polish scientific publishers, 1991, Haag, D. Street Pigeons in Basel. Nature 361:200, 1993. Haag-Wackernagel, D. Die soziokulturellen Ursachen des Taubenproblems. Deutsche tier=E4rztliche Wochenschrift 104:52-57, 1997. Haag, D. Ein Beitrag zur =D6kologie der Stadttaube.Philosophisch-naturwissenschaftliche Fakult=E4t der Universit=E4t Basel. , 1984. ETH-ZH.Dissertation. Heinzelmann, O. Zur Stadttaubenkontrolle in M=FCnchen - Erfahrungen mit einem Bek=E4mpfungsprogramm und Vorschl=E4ge zur =C4nderung.Tier=E4rztlich= e Fakult=E4t der Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit=E4t M=FCnchen. , 1989. VMU.Dissertation. Regards, Susanne ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dr. Susanne Waiblinger Institute of Animal Husbandry and Animal Welfare Veterinary University Vienna Veterinaerplatz 1 1210 Wien Austria Tel. +43 1 250 77 49 05 Fax +43 1 250 77 49 90 Susanne.Waiblinger@vu-wien.ac.at ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: IN%"Paul.Koene@ETHO.VH.WAU.NL" 1-APR-1998 01:19:23.18 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: ...no subject... Dear list, I am looking for research concerning perches for broilers. The only article I found sofar was "The use of perches by broilers in floor pens" by Hughes and Elson. Does anybody know how (much) perches are used when placed in modern broiler systems? Thanks, Paul Paul Koene Department of Animal Sciences Ethology Group P.O. Box 338 / 6700 AH Wageningen The Netherlands Telephone +31 (0)317 482896 Telefax +31 (0)317 485006 E-mail: Paul.Koene@etho.vh.wau.nl WWW: http://www.zod.wau.nl/~www-vh/etho/ From: IN%"w.schoo@noldus.nl" "Wineke Schoo" 2-APR-1998 08:20:29.49 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Measuring Behavior '98: extension of deadline for abstracts MEASURING BEHAVIOR '98 Deadline for abstracts extended to 1 May 1998 The local organizing committee, in consultation with the program committee, has decided to extend the deadline for submission of abstracts for the Measuring Behavior '98 conference (Groningen, 18-21 August 1998) to 1 May 1998. The timespan between the printing of the preliminary program booklets and the original deadline was rather short, and quite a few people told us they did not have enough time to prepare an abstract. We hope that more scientists and students will now be able to submit an abstract for a paper, poster or demonstration. If you have not received the preliminary program with registration materials yet, send an email request to mb98@noldus.nl. All information is also available from the conference web site at http://www.noldus.com/events/mb98/mb98.htm. We look forward to seeing you in Groningen! Wineke Schoo Chair, Local Organizing Committee ______________________________________ Noldus Information Technology b.v. Costerweg 5 P.O. Box 268 6700 AG Wageningen The Netherlands Phone: +31-(0)317-497677 Fax: +31-(0)317-424496 E-mail: w.schoo@noldus.nl WWW: http://www.noldus.com Sign up for Measuring Behavior '98, the 2nd International Conference on Methods and Techniques in Behavioral Research! See http://www.noldus.com/events/mb98/mb98.htm for details. Join Noldus Forum, the discussion list for users of Noldus products! To subscribe, send a message to listserver@noldus.nl with the contents: SUBSCRIBE NOLDUS-FORUM EXIT From: IN%"ie7@umail.umd.edu" "Inma Estevez" 2-APR-1998 16:29:48.67 To: IN%"Paul.Koene@ETHO.VH.WAU.NL" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: ...no subject... Dear Paul and others, There are a few more papers about perches for broilers. Look for Newberry, Miururi, Harrison and Gonyou. In total We found about 6 -7 papers. There are 2 more papers in effects of ramps for broilers by Heath and another author. We are just finishing a project on use of perches by broilers here at College park. The student will present her Master Thesis next April 14th. Let me know if you need the exact reference of the papers. Best regards to everybody Inma On Wed, 01 Apr 1998 08:41:19 -0200 Paul.Koene@ETHO.VH.WAU.NL wrote: > Dear list, > > I am looking for research concerning perches for broilers. The only article I > found sofar was "The use of perches by broilers in floor pens" by Hughes and > Elson. Does anybody know how (much) perches are used when placed in modern > broiler systems? > > Thanks, > > Paul > > Paul Koene > Department of Animal Sciences > Ethology Group > P.O. Box 338 / 6700 AH Wageningen > The Netherlands > Telephone +31 (0)317 482896 > Telefax +31 (0)317 485006 > E-mail: Paul.Koene@etho.vh.wau.nl > WWW: http://www.zod.wau.nl/~www-vh/etho/ > ---------------------- Dr. Inma Estevez Department of Animal and Avian Sciences University of Maryland College Park, MD 20742, USA Telephone: 301-405-5779 Fax: 301-314-9059 E-mail: ie7@umail.umd.edu From: IN%"Maier1@stud.vetmed.uni-muenchen.de" 3-APR-1998 04:48:04.47 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: get informations Hello I am a veterinary from Munich in Germany. Can you please tell me how I can become your informations about ethology. Thank you for the reply, Christophe Maier From: IN%"prato@imiucca.csi.unimi.it" 3-APR-1998 05:41:58.07 To: IN%"Maier1@stud.vetmed.uni-muenchen.de" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: get informations On Fri, 03 Apr 1998 12:36:29 +0100you wrote: >Hello >I am a veterinary from Munich in Germany. >Can you please tell me how I can become your informations about >ethology. ****************************************************************************** Hello Christophe, what kind of information do you want about ethology? indication of textbooks or something more specific? What aspects of behaviour are you interested in? May be I can help you Bye Emanuela Emanuela Prato Previde Assistant Professor Istituto di Psicologia Facolta' di Medicina e Chirurgia Universita' di Milano Via T. Pini, 1 20134 Milano Voice: (39)(2) 21210.201 Fax: (39)(2) 2641.3376 Email: prato@imiucca.csi.unimi.it From: IN%"cuiweiguo@usa.net" "CUIWEIGUO" 3-APR-1998 06:43:25.20 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "stooky" CC: Subj: I NEED HELP! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_S9bYI+RVkzk8pAMjxr/WNA) Content-type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable My name is Cuiweiguo and I am a second-year post-graduate student at = the Northeast Agriculture University in Harbin,China.I am currently = majoring in Animal science,specifically the behavior and walfare of = pigs. I am preparing a test about my thesis.I want to get some articles = about effect of environmental enrichment on the behaviour and production = of new weaned pigs .=20 There are few people to study animal behavior in china ,so it is very = difficult for me to find relevant article.=20 I need help . =20 Thank you for your assistance.I eagerly await your reply. =20 =20 =20 CUIWEIGUO ANIMAL SCIENCE DEPARTMENT NORTHEAST AGRICULTURAL UNIVERSITY HARBIN,P.R.CHINA 150030 APR 3 1998=20 =20 =20 --Boundary_(ID_S9bYI+RVkzk8pAMjxr/WNA) Content-type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
 
   My name is Cuiweiguo = and I am a=20 second-year post-graduate student at the Northeast Agriculture = University in=20 Harbin,China.I am currently majoring in Animal science,specifically the = behavior=20 and walfare of pigs.
   I am preparing a  test about = my=20 thesis.I want to get some articles about effect of environmental = enrichment on=20 the behaviour and production of new weaned  pigs = . 
   There are few people to = study=20 animal behavior in china ,so it is very difficult for me to find = relevant=20 article. 
   I need  help .=20  
   = Thank you for=20 your assistance.I eagerly await your reply.
    
 
 
   CUIWEIGUO
   ANIMAL SCIENCE DEPARTMENT
   NORTHEAST AGRICULTURAL = UNIVERSITY
   HARBIN,P.R.CHINA
   150030
   APR 3 1998 
  =20
 
--Boundary_(ID_S9bYI+RVkzk8pAMjxr/WNA)-- From: IN%"lok@gte.net" "joe" 3-APR-1998 15:08:35.08 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Disaster/emergency vet medicine and evacuation plans Dear Group, I am a pre-vet senior at the University of Kentucky. I along with my vet-advisor am compiling an emergency veterinary medicine plan for the state. This plan will include plans for evacuation, field triage and vet disease containment. If anyone in the group has any information on this limited area of vet medicine please e-mail me at lok@gte.net. Thank you, Joe E. Clemons Jr. From: IN%"ilyanna@siu.buap.mx" "RODRIGUEZ BERMAN ILYANNA" 3-APR-1998 16:17:40.06 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: wolf,giraffes,zebra,etc. behavior People we need imformation about zoo behavior in this animals, we are studing how they use the space in zoo, and how they have relationship, and its very important to know if they must be together, I hope you understand me. Dulce, Ilyanna and Claudia Biology Students University of Puebla, Mexico From: IN%"Rin521@aol.com" "Rin521" 4-APR-1998 16:35:21.61 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Hello! I have just decided to go back to school and am very interested in marine mammal ethology. In my search for information on the field, I found this service. I have not been finding much information to help me form a plan of action and am hoping to receive advice. I am wondering what type of schooling I need. If anyone has recommendations to help me form a plan of action, I could really use the help. Thank you and I look forward to learning. Erin From: IN%"annj@alphalink.com.au" "Ann Jeffree" 4-APR-1998 22:23:23.05 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Housetraining a hog Howdy folks Anyone out there ever housetrained a pig? Also, do you have any knowledge of the occurrence of dwarfs in pigs? TIA, Ann -- Ann Jeffree & the hairy gang in sunny Melbourne. From: IN%"dynavet@nat.fr" "Xavier Aubry" 6-APR-1998 06:33:02.00 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"Jurate.Siugzdaite@lva.lt", IN%"jiracka@ids.pl", IN%"heath@vetethol.demon.co.uk", IN%"quinlan@bendnet.com" CC: Subj: Dear colleagues, Please note that simultaneous translation from french to english will be provided during the 5th French Companion Animal Behaviour Seminar in Vichy. If you wish to register to this meeting and require help to book your hotel and flight, please do not hesitate to contact me. With best regards, Xavier Aubry Seminar Information : The annual clinical ethology course of the G.E.C.A.F., Groupe d'Etudes du Comportement des Animaux Familiers (French Companion Animal Behaviour Therapy Study Group) will be held in Vichy, France, in May 1998. For the first year, this seminar wil benefit from a simultaneous translation in english. This seminar will include various topics related to canine and feline behaviour, with a special workshop dedicated to field training with (real !) dogs. You have to be veterinarian to register. The seminar will take place in the lovely city of Vichy, very centrally located, only 35 min. from the international airport of Clermont-Ferrand / Aulnat. We have a special agreement with Regional Airlines, granting us 30% discounts on international flights (contact us for details). Direct flights are available from the following cities : Amsterdam, Düsseldorf, Geneva, Madrid, Milano Malpensa, Torino. Please forward to all interested veterinarians. Further details and a complete programme are available in the attachment. If you have any queries regarding this meeting, please contact Xavier Aubry Vichy Organisation Committee 51, rue Chappe 63100 Clermont-Ferrand France tel +33 4 73 42 25 50 fax + 33 4 73 42 25 55 or email dynavet@nat.fr With best regards, Xavier Aubry veterinarian GECAF/ ESVCE 5th BEHAVIOUR SEMINAR Wednesday 20th may 1998 12 h 30 Reception, registration 15h à 16h · Introduction of speakers · Introduction of sponsors and proceedings 16h à 17h · Development of puppies C.Béata Emotional structuration Attachment, Detachment Sociabilisation, Socialisation Break 17h30 à 19h30 · Communication between dogs E.Gaultier Behavioural sequences Dominance, submission and hierarchy Juveniles, pre-puberal and puberal behaviours Theory of communication · Inserting the dog in a family M.Rossignol Prevention Training Thursday 21st may 1998 9h à 10h · Information processing P.Pageat and E.Gaultier 10h à 11h · General psychopathology P.Pageat and E.Gaultier Pause 11h30 à 12h · ADHD syndrome T.Paris Dinner 21h00 · Phobias C.Arpaillange · Intermittent and paroxysmal anxiety J.Dehasse · Permanent anxiety M.Bourdin Friday 22nd Mai 1998 8h30 à 10h · Depressions G.Müller · Deprivation syndrome V.Dramard Break 10h30 à 12h · Separation anxiety G.Müller · Dominance-related disorders M.Bourdin 20h45 · Managing your consultation C.Béata et T.Paris Semiology Therapeutic alliance Dîner de Gala Saturday 23rd may 1998 - Feline Ethology Day 8h30 à 10h · Cat development C.Arpaillange · Communication and territory J.Dehasse · Anxiety P.Pageat Break 10h30 à 12h · Feeding behaviour problems M.Bourdin · Depression V.Dramard · Semiology J.Dehasse 17h30 à 19h30 · Workshops (small groups) Dinner 20h30 à 22h00 · Workshops Sunday 24th may 1998 - Dog Training Day 8h30 à 12h · Field workshop with dogs (extra-charge 500 FRF) Registration Registration cost (inc. VAT) 2000 FRF CNVSPA member 1700 FRF GECAF member 1800 FRF GERC member * 1800 FRF * please substantiate your status Extra-charge (sun. field workshop) 500 FRF Registration includes : · scientific program · proceedings · social programme (free of charge) · lunches on 21,22, 23 (free of charge) Extra registration for gala dinner · 200 FF x nb of accompanying persons Proceedings only, available exclusively in french 400 FRF inc. VAT (+ mailing costs) please contact CNVSPA Registration Form Dr ................................ - registration cost ......FRF - field workshop (optional) 500 FRF - extra registration for gala ... x 200 = ...... FRF I enclose a cheque / eurocheque : for FRF ........................ made payable to C.N.V.S.P.A.-GECAF N.B. : An invoice will be sent to you upon reception of payment To be sent back to C.N.V.S.P.A. 40, rue de Berri 75 008 Paris France tél : +33 1 53 83 91 60 fax : +33 1 53 83 91 69 Accommodation Accommodation must be booked directly with the Palais des Congrès (Central) - by phone +33 4 73 98 71 94 - by fax +33 4 70 31 06 00 - by mail, Centrale de réservation 19, rue du Parc 03204 Vichy Cedex France Caution : we recommend you to book your accommodation as soon as possible (in any case, before 20th April) Translation Lectures will be given in french. Simultaneous translation will be provided. Access - by motorway A71 from Paris A72 from Lyon A75 from Montpellier - by train (Vichy railway station) 6 direct connections daily 2h50 from Paris 2h15 from Lyon connections for Marseille, Bordeaux and Nantes - by plane (Clermont-Ferrand / Aulnat airport) 35 min. from Vichy by road 25 direct national and international flights daily 5th GECAF / ESVCE BEHAVIOUR SEMINAR French Companion Animal Study Group VICHY >From wednesday 20th may to sunday 24th may 1998 Palais des Congrès-Opéra 5, rue du Casino BP2805 03208 Vichy Cedex France From: IN%"haussman@rs4703.ansc1.uni-hohenheim.de" "HANS HAUSSMANN" 6-APR-1998 08:26:49.40 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: PhD studentship available Is there anybody who is interested in studying cattle behaviour with free ranging animals? I am fairly sure that I can provide funds for at least two years on the basis of half time pay and full time work (our standard for PhD students). Regards ___________________ Hans Haussmann haussman@uni-hohenheim.de ,--¬_ Dept. for Animal Husbandry and Animal Breeding ,;;,_ ____/ /|/ (Institut fuer Tierhaltung und Tierzuechtung) ;; ( )___, ) ' University of Hohenheim, Germany ,' // V\__ Fax + 49 711 459 4239 _ / \ / \ Fon + 49 711 459 2476 (3006) ¬ ¬ ' Home page www.uni-hohenheim.de/aw ___________________ Mail 470/HG, Uni Hohenheim, D-70593 Stuttgart From: IN%"haussman@rs4703.ansc1.uni-hohenheim.de" "HANS HAUSSMANN" 6-APR-1998 08:28:49.52 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Introduction Please find my (brief) introduction at the bottom of this message! Regards ___________________ Hans Haussmann haussman@uni-hohenheim.de ,--¬_ Dept. for Animal Husbandry and Animal Breeding ,;;,_ ____/ /|/ (Institut fuer Tierhaltung und Tierzuechtung) ;; ( )___, ) ' University of Hohenheim, Germany ,' // V\__ Fax + 49 711 459 4239 _ / \ / \ Fon + 49 711 459 2476 (3006) ¬ ¬ ' Home page www.uni-hohenheim.de/aw ___________________ Mail 470/HG, Uni Hohenheim, D-70593 Stuttgart I am professor for animal genetics (born 38) but now more interested in animal behaviour / husbandry / welfare. From: IN%"Marianne.Bonde@agrsci.dk" "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Marianne_Kj=E6r_Bonde?=" 6-APR-1998 09:20:16.70 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca'" CC: Subj: fear tests Hello out there, I am a Danish vet working in farm animal welfare research, focusing on methods for assessment of animal welfare in commercial herds. The level of fear (of humans or novel objects) is an important indicator of animal welfare. Research on the subject has primarily concentrated on individual animals but I would like to describe the fear level in groups of animals. Therefore, if you have any information/references about this, please let me know..! :-) Thanks a lot, Marianne Marianne Bonde DVM M.Sc. Research Assistant Danish Institute of Agricultural Sciences Dept. Animal Health and Welfare Research Centre Foulum PO Box 50 DK - 8830 Tjele Telephone no. +45 89 99 13 47 Fax no. + 45 89 99 15 00 e-mail address: Marianne.Bonde@agrsci.dk From: IN%"dogmatic@c031.aone.net.au" "Kath Kovacic" 6-APR-1998 22:54:57.42 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Intro Hello ethology list, My name is Kath Kovacic and I'm a vet in Melbourne, Australia. I've been interested in behaviour for many years and am hoping to undertake postgraduate study in the field in the near future. Looking forward to the discussions! Kath dogmatic@c031.aone.net.au From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 7-APR-1998 06:08:43.39 To: IN%"hbe-request@a3.com" "HBES List Serve", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: Female Neck Stretching Good morning! I completed a photo session a few days ago (prep for HBES). Whenever I asked the model for a facial profile, she extended her chin slightly upwa= rd and stretched her neck forward while pulling back her hair and lifting he= r eyes. She did it so regularly that I wonder if she got this from an ear= ly Garbo film or from a 6-hour modeling class (and if so, why did they teach= her this particular routine?). I also wonder about cross cultural comparisons. Any speculations or data about mating displays? Human or other species?= = Jim Brody From: IN%"arioncr@mindspring.com" "Chris Redenbach" 7-APR-1998 07:51:13.08 To: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Female Neck Stretching Did the model have hair longer than shoulder length? If she had long hair, then in order to pull it back and lift it up from dragging on the clothing and thus falling unattractively, one needs to raise the chin to cause the hair to fall back away from the neck. I tried to turn my head to a profile view and the hair caught on my clothing...the longer the hair, the heavier it is and the more uncomfortable when disarranged. After I pinned my hair up, I (automatically I think) no longer did this when I turned my head. The hair thing could have specifically been taught in modeling school. However, did you see my post in response to Robin's query about actresses eyes? I think that head tilting "could" (although I have read nothing about human ethology) be an appeasement or submission gesture that could be ritualized into a mating signal. Could it be an intention movement related to a possible fixed action pattern of part of lordosis? Please let me know of the responses you get from those better informed. Chris Redenbach 08:06 AM 4/7/98 -0400, you wrote: >Good morning! > >I completed a photo session a few days ago (prep for HBES). Whenever I >asked the model for a facial profile, she extended her chin slightly upward >and stretched her neck forward while pulling back her hair and lifting her >eyes. She did it so regularly that I wonder if she got this from an early >Garbo film or from a 6-hour modeling class (and if so, why did they teach >her this particular routine?). I also wonder about cross cultural >comparisons. > >Any speculations or data about mating displays? Human or other species? > > >Jim Brody > Chris Redenbach From: IN%"jgr8n@avery.med.virginia.edu" "Jess Guillermo Romero Muoz" 7-APR-1998 16:52:43.69 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Hello Hello everyone My name is Jesus Romero, I=B4m a junior research at Biological School at the Universidad Central de Venezuela, in Venezuela South America. I'm very interesting in some information of doctoral or magister degree courses in Behavior of monkeys of the new world. I'll need this information because we have an excellent student of biology. She already have an very interesting thesis in monkeys in Venezuela, and she wants to begin her doctoral studies. Thank in advance Jesus Romero jgr8n@avery.med.virginia.edu From: IN%"jgr8n@avery.med.virginia.edu" "Jesus Guillermo Romero" 7-APR-1998 17:16:20.80 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: hello Hello everyone My name is Jesus Romero, I4m a junior research at Biological School at the Universidad Central de Venezuela, in Venezuela South America. I'm very interesting in some information of doctoral or magister degree courses in Behavior of monkeys of the new world. I'll need this information because we have an excellent student of biology. She already have an interesting thesis in monkeys in Venezuela, and she wants to begin her doctoral studies. Thank in advance Jesus Romero jgr8n@avery.med.virginia.edu From: IN%"quinlan@bendnet.com" "George Quinlan" 8-APR-1998 23:10:25.60 To: IN%"steven@texas.net" "Steven Nicely", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "animal behavior" CC: Subj: RE: text books >Any one suggest book dealing with behavior in dogs. > >Steve Nicely May I suggest "Behavior Problems in Dogs" by William E. Campbell, Second Edition American Veterinary Publications. I believe there is a Third Edition in the makeing. Every Vet or trainer should read this. George Phillip Quinlan All About Dogs Behavior & Training Center Bend Or From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 9-APR-1998 19:58:30.27 To: IN%"hbe-request@a3.com" "HBES List Serve", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: Enablers and Users One of my obsessions is that of borrowing models from EP or sociobiology and applying them to my clients, generally blue collar people in a small Pennsylvania town. Thinking about evolution (on any scale!) helps me an= d I think it helps them. Anyhow, an essay about Bipolar Courtship is to b= e printed in "Across Species Comparisons and Psychopathology, May, 1998. = Just as I had it all tacked down, I got another book from Amazon. The following thoughts unfolded as I read it in the local mall. ------------- Robert Axelrod's "The Complexity of Cooperation" (1997, Princeton University Press) arrived today. Page 31 cites a study by Axelrod & Dion= (1988) that concluded "noise" calls for forgiveness; too much forgiveness= invites exploitation.=94 Axelrod cleverly inserted "noise" into the Prisoner=92s Dilemma by having a computer randomly change the option take= n by one of the participants. The second player had no information whether t= he overt response was the same as or different from that intended by the fir= st one. Under noise conditions, Generous Tit for Tat and Contrite Tit for Tat emerged as superior to regular T4T. Generous T4T means that several= betrayals are allowed before retaliation occurs. Contrite T4T means tha= t the first player, after commiting a betrayal, is cooperative with the second until the second shows positive reciprocity. If mania (often a vitality marker because of its associated liveliness) i= s conceived as a state of heightened response variability, then enablers ma= ke reciprocity more likely to survive episodes of erratic conduct or selfish= deceit. "Contrition" overlaps with the verbal "I=92m sorry and won=92t = do it again" that softens some mothers, wives, husbands, and religions to continue or to reinstate their forgiving tactics. There is a cost, however, to forgiveness because being forgiving also raises the probabili= ty of being cheated. Thus, the adolescent who shows no "remorse" is judged= a poorer treatment candidate and less eligible for Generous T4T than one wh= o apologizes. Strings of betrayals imply systematic "exploitation" rather= than "noise=94" These analogs suggest ways that alliances can be protec= ted while also protecting the interests of individual participants. I'm so darned pleased with this model and am frantically thinking of abusive teen males as well as husbands to whom it might apply in addition= to their nervous partners, whether mother or spouse. Jim Brody From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 10-APR-1998 06:33:35.79 To: IN%"hbe-request@a3.com" "HBES List Serve", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych" CC: Subj: Enabler/Users I received the following comment and had an "oops" reaction. Thought I would share it. Jim. ---------------------- Don't fall into the trap that so many others have and that which you seem to already be in with the statements in your last paragraph of assuming that only males or even just males in most likelihood act like that. It is just as commonly practiced by females. In my point of view, I would even go so far as to say that our society raises women to act like that. Our society is predominately geared to raise women with the idea that they should find a man that has the highest probability of providing for them. It does not matter whether or not they can provide for themselves, when they seek out men it is for one with the capacity to give them things. In other words, find men they can exploit effectively. Once the men can no longer be effectively exploited for one reason or another, sayonara sucker. Sound like I am bitter and say this only through bad experiences? Maybe, but I have seen it happen so commonly and so often that I have to conclude it is the natural way of behavior for most women. Joe -------------------------------- Joe, You might enjoy the following ... scheduled for the May issue of "Across= Species Comparisons and Psychopathology." I'm also interviewing a lively, manic cocktail waitress these days and hope to list her strategie= s beyond "disappearing with the change." Jim ----------------------- from "Mania Sketches #5: I Won, Thanks for Being There for Me," ASCAP, M= ay '98 (projected date) =2E.. several other women I know may exhibit the relationship that Suomi described for young rhesus and that I've extrapolated to older, male manics. (Suomi, S. (1997) Nonverbal communication in nonhuman primates:= Implications for the emergence of culture. In Segerstrale, U. & Molnar,= P. ( Eds) Nonverbal Communication: Where Nature Meets Culture. Mahway, NJ= : Erlbaum, pp. 131-150.) Katlyn is in her mid-30s and has worked her way upward from clerking in a jewelry store to owning several of them. She's= noisily leveraging each of her projects upward every few years. She als= o has Joe quietly in the background. People who know them both say that Jo= e is very quiet but firm and acts to stabilize her. Cora is marketing director for a large national company. She has a long= succession of male "connections" -- without her husbands knowledge -- tha= t she often calls long distance late at night in order to share her poetry,= gossip, fantasies, jokes, and complaints. She seems to go through one g= uy at a time (serial connectionism?); each lasts 6-12 months and is terminat= ed when they start to demand a larger part of her life. She promptly label= s such demands as "controlling," perhaps another manifestation of the 10 ye= ar old who retorts, "Don't tell me what to do." From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 10-APR-1998 13:53:09.89 To: IN%"hbe-request@a3.com" "HBES List Serve", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych" CC: Subj: Mating, Morals, Wilson -------------Forwarded Message----------------- From: James F. Brody, = To: John K. Pearce, M.D., INTERNET:jkp@world.std.com Russell Gardner, INTERNET:rgardner@marlin.utmb.edu John Fentress, Ph. D., INTERNET:fentress@is.dal.ca Robin Walker, INTERNET:robin@coape.win-uk.net Robert Wright = CC: Gil Levin, Ph. D., INTERNET:GLevin@behavior.net = Date: 4/10/98 3:39 PM RE: Mating, Morals, Wilson Gentlemen, Our man, Ed, has just taken over religion and morality in a cover story f= or The Atlantic Monthly. I noticed it when picking up "Scientific American" for their article on mate selection. Things are bubbling! Jim From: IN%"amthomps@zebu.cvm.msu.edu" "Amy Thompson" 10-APR-1998 14:54:24.01 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: (Fwd) Rage Syndrome Hi everyone. I just received this question and thought I'd bounce it off you for opinions, etc. Any info would be appreciated, especially whether or not anyone has actually found a cause for rage syndrome, or if they have even decided that it exists... Hi Amy, Dr. Fine gave me your name. I was wondering if you heard of Rage Syndrome. I know of someone who had to put their 3-1/2 year old male neutered English Setter to sleep because he became progressiviley more and more aggressive. It started about 1-1/2 years ago. Episodes of growling would occur for no reason and it slowly got worse. She said he acted like jeckle and hide. Finally he attacked his owner and that was the last straw. Before euthanasia the owner sent him away to obedience training for 2 months, but no luck. A breeder mentioned something about rage syndrome. I was wondering if you have any ideas about the case. Thank you so much for your time, Sincerely, Nicole LeVeque cvm2000 amthomps@zebu.cvm.msu.edu http://zebu.cvm.msu.edu/~amthomps From: IN%"nick@bcrescue.org" "Nicholas B. Carter" 10-APR-1998 17:08:36.66 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Rage Syndrome Amy Thompson wrote: >Any info would be appreciated, especially whether or not anyone has >actually found a cause for rage syndrome, or if they have even >decided that it exists... Depending on the behaviorist you talk to, rage does or does not exist. There has been no conclusive study on the condition to date. The cause of it is often attributed to a brain chemistry problem (similar to several psychiatric diseases in humans) or a form of idiopathic epilepsy. Your guess is as good as anyone else's. The common conclusion however is that it is not a very common condition. There is a decent synopsis of it in Dodman's book "The Dog Who Loved Too Much". Dr. Nicholas B. Carter Border Collie Rescue From: IN%"jkincaid@unix.kawartha.com" 10-APR-1998 20:21:37.02 To: IN%"amthomps@zebu.cvm.msu.edu" "Amy Thompson" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: (Fwd) Rage Syndrome Amy Thompson wrote: > > Hi everyone. I just received this question and thought I'd bounce it > off you for opinions, etc. > Any info would be appreciated, especially whether or not anyone has > actually found a cause for rage syndrome, or if they have even > decided that it exists... > > Hi Amy, > Dr. Fine gave me your name. I was wondering if you heard of Rage > Syndrome. I know of someone who had to put their 3-1/2 year old male > neutered English Setter to sleep because he became progressiviley > more and more aggressive. It started about 1-1/2 years ago. > Episodes of growling would occur for no reason and it slowly got > worse. She said he acted like jeckle and hide. Finally > he attacked his owner and that was the last straw. Before euthanasia > the owner sent him away to obedience training for 2 months, but no > luck. A breeder mentioned something about rage syndrome. I was > wondering if you have any ideas about the case. > Thank you so much for your time, > Sincerely, > Nicole LeVeque cvm2000 > > amthomps@zebu.cvm.msu.edu > http://zebu.cvm.msu.edu/~amthomps Hello Amy; Years ago I recall a number of cases of Saint Bernards suddenly turning vicious and what was eventually discovered that the standard for the breed had changed and breeders were breeding dogs with slimmer narrower skulls. The brain itself remained the same and as the dogs matured they were literally driven mad. More up to date is an excellent article in the September 1997 issue of Equinox magazine on the genetic disorders that are being uncovered in purebreed show dogs if you can obtain a copy John From: IN%"HowlBloom@aol.com" "Howl Bloom" 10-APR-1998 21:37:43.47 To: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com", IN%"hbe-request@a3.com", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" CC: Subj: RE: Enabler/Users ---------- Howard Bloom (founder: International Paleopsychology Project; member: New York Academy of Sciences, American Association for the Advancement of Science, American Psychological Society, Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and Evolution Society, European Sociobiological Society; board member: Epic of Evolution Society) 705 President Street Brooklyn, NY 11215 phone 718 622 2278 fax 718 398 2551 e-mail howard@paleopsych.org for two chapters from The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History, see www.bookworld.com/lucifer From: IN%"HowlBloom@aol.com" "Howl Bloom" 10-APR-1998 21:38:06.16 To: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com", IN%"hbe-request@a3.com", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Enablers and Users In a message dated 98-04-09 21:58:43 EDT, JBrody@compuserve.com writes: << Under noise conditions, Generous Tit for Tat and Contrite Tit for Tat emerged as superior to regular T4T. Generous T4T means that several betrayals are allowed before retaliation occurs. Contrite T4T means that the first player, after commiting a betrayal, is cooperative with the second until the second shows positive reciprocity. >> See if this helps. Under natural circumstances, sending out distress calls is a rough equivalent to the Contrite tit-for-tat strategy you describe. Distress calls in moderate amounts can produce a positive response from others. For example, a baby absolutely needs its distress calls to elicit care and feeding from its mother under certain circumstances. A young monkey or ape who is playing with others and finds itself "picked on" to the point of pain in the hierarchical status games most young mammals (including humans) play may benefit from sending out distress calls. Its mother or older sisters may be alerted by the sound and sweep in to accomplish a rescue. A young baboon being literally "loved to pieces"--that is torn apart in what looks like a group act of affection performed by females of higher rank than its mother--can alert its mother to its plight via distress calls. She will then show up and attempt to grab her infant, take it to the periphery of the group, and protect it against further attacks. However too many distress calls can produce the opposite reaction. (Meaning we have here another cue which triggers a sliding-scale response of the sort explained in a previous post). A baby baboon which wanders into a chimp troop is generally safe it it behaves normally. A baby baboon which runs through a chimp troop screaming distress cries is frequently grabbed by an adult male, dismembered alive, and eaten. A human baby whose distress calls are perpetual receives less attention than one whose distress calls are moderate. In some cases, the non-stop distress calls may actually result in violence against that infant. As you might expect, all this fits the old, true-blue complex adaptive systems model of social behavior. An infant which emits perpetual distress calls is signalling either that its biology, its psychology, or its lack of fit to its circumstances (which may be intolerable) makes it a weak node in the group- neural-net, the collective intelligence or group brain. This exacerbates its internal utility sorters, the endogenous self-destruct mechanisms which make it ill and incapable of handling difficulties, It also triggers the resource sorters built into social structure. That is, behavioral reactions of others impell them to withdraw their services, their attentions, and in some cases to actually punish the emitter of distress signals. Speaking from the point of view of information-transfer, the emitter of perpetual distress signals is sending out repulsion signals. In both bacterial and human societies, these drive others away and leave an organism to self-destruct. They are socially useful cues that the emitter's strategy, positioning, or biology has taken a wrong turn which others should shun if the larger social organism is to proceed in an adaptive direction. Hope I haven't been too muddy and abstract with all this. If so, let me know and I'll try to wax more anecdotal. Howard ---------------------- Howard Bloom. The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History. New York: Atlantic Monthly Press, 1995. Howard Bloom. "Eine Geschichte des globalen Gehirns." Hanover, Germany: Bollmann Verlag, 1998. Howard Bloom. "GROUP SELECTION AND THE SOCIAL SCIENCES: a new evolutionary synthesis," European Sociobiological Society Annual Meeting, 1996. Howard Bloom and Mike Waller. "THE GROUP MIND: GROUPS AS COMPLEX ADAPTIVE SYSTEMS." Human Behavior and Evolution Society Annual Meeting, 1996.  From: IN%"robin@coape.win-uk.net" "Robin Walker" 11-APR-1998 07:23:49.94 To: IN%"HowlBloom@aol.com" "'Howl Bloom'", IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "'JBrody@compuserve.com'", IN%"hbe-request@a3.com" "'hbe-request@a3.com'", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "'paleopsych@kumo.com'", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'applied-ethology@s CC: Subj: RE: Enablers and Users -----Original Message----- From: Howl Bloom [SMTP:HowlBloom@aol.com] Sent: 11 April 1998 04:37 To: JBrody@compuserve.com; hbe-request@a3.com; paleopsych@kumo.com; applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Subject: Re: Enablers and Users See if this helps. Under natural circumstances, sending out distress calls is a rough equivalent to the Contrite tit-for-tat strategy you describe. Distress calls in moderate amounts can produce a positive response from others. For example, a baby absolutely needs its distress calls to elicit care and feeding from its mother under certain circumstances. Here we engage in the mechanics of bonding. The distress call compels a response from the parent or the group. This response is successful if the stimulus eliciting distress is removed e.g. the infant is no longer being trodden on; it is no longer alone or cold or hungry or afraid. But what is the state of the responder? What is the neurophysiology of parental concern? In my experience it is quite acute distress. The scalp hair stirs, a burst of anxiety engulfs the carer, there is behavioural inhibition, orienting, arousal, precipitate response. The chemistry is that of "Aversion". It is also engaged for trivial responses, such as the annoying scrape of a knife on a metal pan (such is the parsimony of the design) but in bonding the motivation is imperatively adaptive and fear spurs the response. Not only the caller must be relieved. The responder is hugely rewarded by a reciprocal relief. But relief is a most potent form of reward and indeed I argue that it is more addictive than mere consummation. So successful exchanges of 'call' and 'response' reinforce the bonding. However too many distress calls can produce the opposite reaction. ... A human baby whose distress calls are perpetual receives less attention than one whose distress calls are moderate. In some cases, the non-stop distress calls may actually result in violence against that infant. What might be the mechanics of this? Why surely the parent in a state of acute aversion is not relieved. He is not rewarded. The response at first is shaped by the phenomenon of frustrative vigour. The parent tries harder; soothes, cuddles, nuzzles, licks ....offers species typical succour repeatedly. But repeated non -reward surely leaves the carer in something resembling extinction? Indeed the reason for the failure may be disease or disablement but there can be no need for a mechanism of 'knowing' this. Repeated non reinforcement of caring leads to the extinction of response a.k.a hope, optimism, concern etc. etc. It can also lead to frustration or anger of course and the aversion is assuaged by extreme displacement behaviour such as lashing out at the source. Or of course severe guilt at the thought which compounds the misery of non-reward. I would stand with Hobbes, Hebb and Hedony on this and the rest here below seems to flow by plain default without an organising 'design' As you might expect, all this fits the old, true-blue complex adaptive systems model of social behavior. An infant which emits perpetual distress calls is signalling either that its biology, its psychology, or its lack of fit to its circumstances (which may be intolerable) makes it a weak node in the group- neural-net, the collective intelligence or group brain. This exacerbates its internal utility sorters, the endogenous self-destruct mechanisms which make it ill and incapable of handling difficulties, It also triggers the resource sorters built into social structure. That is, behavioral reactions of others impell them to withdraw their services, their attentions, and in some cases to actually punish the emitter of distress signals. Speaking from the point of view of information-transfer, the emitter of perpetual distress signals is sending out repulsion signals. In both bacterial and human societies, these drive others away and leave an organism to self-destruct. They are socially useful cues that the emitter's strategy, positioning, or biology has taken a wrong turn which others should shun if the larger social organism is to proceed in an adaptive direction. Robin From: IN%"BBEAVER@CVM.TAMU.EDU" "Bonnie Beaver" 13-APR-1998 10:13:48.47 To: IN%"huttonn@ccmail.orst.edu", IN%"74232.1150@compuserve.com", IN%"74232.251@compuserve.com", IN%"74253.1236@compuserve.com", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"barteje@vetmed.auburn.edu", IN%"bltnvet@silcom.com" CC: Subj: Fwd: "Don't Squat With Yer Spurs On, A Cowboy's Guide To Life" Here are a few pearls that just have to be shared with those who know what spurs are. Enjoy, BB Received: from gate002.ocs.lsu.edu ([130.39.75.29]) by CVM.TAMU.EDU; Wed, 08 Apr 1998 13:17:05 -0500 Received: by gate002.ocs.lsu.edu(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 862565E0.0065A5CE ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:30:15 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: LSU From: malc@lsu.edu To: adcock@vt8200.vetmed.lsu.edu Bcc: bbeaver@cvm.tamu.edu Message-ID: <862565E0.0063E041.01@gate002.ocs.lsu.edu> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:15:14 -0500 Subject: "Don't Squat With Yer Spurs On, A Cowboy's Guide To Life" "Don't Squat With Yer Spurs On, A Cowboy's Guide To Life" Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day. Don't worry about bitin' off more than you can chew. Your mouth is probably a whole lot bigger'n you think. If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around. Never ask a man the size of his spread. After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: when you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut. If you find yourself in a hole the first thing to do is stop diggin'. Never smack a man who's chewin' tobacco. It don't take a genius to spot a goat in a flock of sheep. Never ask a barber if he thinks you need a haircut. Never follow good whiskey with water, unless you're out of good whiskey. Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. Always drink upstream from the herd. Never drop your gun to hug a grizzly. If you're ridin' ahead of the herd, take a look back every now and then to make sure it's still there. When you give a lesson in meanness to a critter or a person, don't be suprised if they learn their lesson. The best way to have a quiche for dinner is to make it up and put it in the oven to bake at 325 degrees. Meanwhile, get out a large T-bone, grill it, and when it's done, eat it. As for the quiche, continue to let it bake, but otherwise ignore it. When you're throwin' your weight around, be ready to have it thrown around by somebody else. Lettin' the cat outta the bag is a whole lot easier 'n puttin' it back. Always take a good look at what you're about to eat. It's not so important to know what it is, but it's critical to know what it was. The quickest way to double your money is to fold it over and put it back in your pocket. A smart ass just don't fit in a saddle. Never miss a good chance to shut up. From: IN%"karmen@rocketmail.com" "karmen stanovich" 13-APR-1998 18:17:24.35 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: help I have tried to get information on western red cedar and the effects it could have on domestic pets. I am a manufacturer in dogbeds. We are currently using cedar that comes from the east coast. We have have had cedar offered at a very good rate from the Seattle area. However all cedar from this area is moist and not completely dried. I have been told by people in the pet industry that cedar when mixed with the poly fill leaves a very musty smell. My concern is that it could cause many problems with small animals like respitory problems and also allergies. Could someone help me with that and clarify what is the best cedar to use for animals. I would like to give the consumer the best possible product for their pet. I would greatly appreciate if you could point me in the right direction. Many thanks Karmen Stanovich _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From: IN%"poli@imiucca.csi.unimi.it" "Marco Poli" 14-APR-1998 04:08:27.42 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Fwd: "Don't Squat With Yer Spurs On, A Cowboy's Guide To Life" Dear BB, the last of your citations is very suitable for this kind of message: "Never miss a good chance to shut up" Regards, Marco From: IN%"h.erhard@mluri.sari.ac.uk" "Hans Erhard" 14-APR-1998 04:51:17.22 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: a missed chance? For all it's worth, I enjoyed Bonnie's message. It brightened up a stormy day, and provided a welcome break from work. Thanks, Bonnie. Hans ____________________________________ Hans Erhard Macaulay Land Use Research Institute Craigiebuckler Aberdeen AB15 8QH Tel.: 01224 - 318611 Fax.: 01224 - 311556 email: h.erhard@mluri.sari.ac.uk From: IN%"JGMORRIGAN@imail.nsac.ns.ca" "Jane G Morrigan" 14-APR-1998 14:38:20.00 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: is an animal an "it" or "he or she"? The other day I was corrected by a senior researcher upon his reading a paper I wrote in which I referred to a cow as "she", and other animals in general as "he or she". I contend that animals are not objects, and therefore using personal pronouns to refer to them is quite proper. In my opinion, animals are most definitely subjects. The senior researcher's comment was that"it is not the convention" to do so. Of course, I continually read "it" in the literature, and think that perhaps the time is right for a change! Please, I would really like to hear your views on this! Jane Morrigan Graduate Student (Animal Behaviour) Department of Animal Science Nova Scotia Agricultural College Truro, Nova Scotia Canada From: IN%"jkincaid@unix.kawartha.com" 14-APR-1998 15:32:38.69 To: IN%"JGMORRIGAN@imail.nsac.ns.ca" "Jane G Morrigan" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: is an animal an "it" or "he or she"? Jane G Morrigan wrote: > > The other day I was corrected by a senior researcher upon his reading > a paper I wrote in which I referred to a cow as "she", and other > animals in general as "he or she". I contend that animals are not > objects, and therefore using personal pronouns to refer to them is > quite proper. In my opinion, animals are most definitely subjects. > The senior researcher's comment was that"it is not the convention" > to do so. Of course, I continually read "it" in the literature, and > think that perhaps the time is right for a change! Please, I would > really like to hear your views on this! > > Jane Morrigan > Graduate Student (Animal Behaviour) > Department of Animal Science > Nova Scotia Agricultural College > Truro, Nova Scotia > Canada Hi Jane; I'm no expert but have always thought of an "it" as being an animal that has been castrated or spayed. I suppose one could always refer to male and female but I think your senior researcher is splitting hairs. John From: IN%"zooboy@inu.net" "zooboy@inu.net" 14-APR-1998 15:42:04.91 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: is an animal an "it" or "he or she"? Interesting question you raise. I side with the senior researcher in this case. The pronouns "he and she" are anthropomorphic terms that bestow human characteristics on the subject in question. This usage may be appropriate for informal conversation, however, when used in a formal, scientific forum I believe the usage is inappropriate. Although humans are animals, animals are not humans and do not warrant the usage of such anthropomorphic terms. Jason B. Searle Zookeeper From: IN%"Sonia_Chandra@umit.maine.edu" 14-APR-1998 15:57:49.35 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: RE: is an animal an "it" or "he or she"? zooboy@inu.net,.Internet writes: >The pronouns "he and she" are anthropomorphic terms that bestow human >characteristics on the subject in question. he/she purely specify gender. perhaps to some, they are also less demeaning than "it". i would be offended if someone called an "it", but maybe in scientific papers "it" is more appropriate than "he/she". this makes me wonder what people who study humans use. would anyone here be able to answer this? ~sonia (= smiles and joy to you =) "Stay gold" Johnny in the Outsiders. From: IN%"dawn.leblanc@agric.gov.ab.ca" 14-APR-1998 16:01:06.24 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: is an animal an "it" or "he or she"? I find this an interesting question. I would have to side with Jane (and Jane - you know my mind is just spinning with who the culprit on faculty might be on this one!) on the referrals to the animals as he or she. In reference to the response posted by Jason Searle - there are languages that use "he" and "she" to refer to inanimate objects ( I am specifically thinking of French but I am sure that there are others) and though this is not done in the English language, I don't see why the use of personal pronouns indicating the sex of an individual could not be used when referring to animals (whether human or non-human). Perhaps the reference to anthropomorphism could lend to the possibility that referring to an animal as he or she could imply that the individual is a sentient being with emotions rather than simply hard-wired responses? My two cents. Dawn LeBlanc Coordinator - Alberta Quality Pork Program Alberta Agriculture Food and Rural Development Animal Industry #204 - J.G. O'Donoghue Building 7000 - 113 Street Edmonton, Alberta Canada T6H 5T6 Interesting question you raise. I side with the senior researcher in this case. The pronouns "he and she" are anthropomorphic terms that bestow human characteristics on the subject in question. This usage may be appropriate for informal conversation, however, when used in a formal, scientific forum I believe the usage is inappropriate. Although humans are animals, animals are not humans and do not warrant the usage of such anthropomorphic terms. Jason B. Searle Zookeeper From: IN%"masuma@lucent.com" "Masuma Barrett" 14-APR-1998 16:08:34.21 To: IN%"jkincaid@unix.kawartha.com" CC: IN%"JGMORRIGAN@imail.nsac.ns.ca" "Jane G Morrigan", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: is an animal an "it" or "he or she"? John Kincaid wrote: > Hi Jane; > I'm no expert but have always thought of an "it" as being an animal that > has been castrated or spayed. I suppose one could always refer to male > and female but I think your senior researcher is splitting hairs. > John I'm certainly not an expert, however, I believe "he/she" is quite proper and "it" is not. When humans are sterile, or have had hesterctomies or other procedures done to them that prevent future reproduction, they don't become "it"s. They remain he-s and she-s. I think the same would apply to animals, if animals are to be regarded as subjects and not objects. -- Masuma Barrett Email: masuma@lucent.com Lucent Technologies Voice: (303) 538-1228 11900 N. Pecos, Denver CO 80234 Fax: (303) 538-3907 From: IN%"robin@coape.win-uk.net" "Robin Walker" 14-APR-1998 16:41:08.32 To: IN%"COLWELLD%LETHBRIDGE.LETHRS%GW1%WOTTMRX%WLETHRB%WPGATE@ABRSLE.AGR.CA" "'Doug Colwell'" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology Network (E-mail)" Subj: RE: Urolithiasis and Behaviour -Reply -----Original Message----- From: Doug Colwell [SMTP:COLWELLD%LETHBRIDGE.LETHRS%GW1%WOTTMRX%WLETHRB%WPGATE@ABRSLE.AGR.CA] Sent: 14 April 1998 22:42 To: robin Subject: Urolithiasis and Behaviour -Reply I am away March 23-April 6. Please contact me when I return. Weather's wonderful, sand is white, and I may not be thinking of you! From: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" 14-APR-1998 16:46:09.87 To: IN%"JGMORRIGAN@imail.nsac.ns.ca" "Jane G Morrigan" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: is an animal an "it" or "he or she"? I can't see that it matters one bit whether a cow is called a "she" or an "it", as long as it is clear what (who?) is being referred to. The only problem I see is that the credibility of applied ethology is strained enough already with some scientists outside our field. Excessive use of "he" and "she", just like use of cute names ("Daisy", "Buttercup" etc), instead of numbers may tend to make one's paper look a bit twee. Jon ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Watts (___) ) ) University of Saskatchewan |o o|___________/ ( Dept of Herd Medicine O \#/ | ) and Theriogenology |bser| | Statistical | ( Western College of Vet. Med. |vati| | analysis | ) 52 Campus Drive |ons.| \___________/| *& Saskatoon ------ || || %$#@ S7N 1B4 / \ || || ^*@*~ Canada &^%%#$@ wattsjon@duke.usask.ca "The Holy Cow" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IN%"Rob@dm.net" "Rob@dm.net" 14-APR-1998 18:05:29.37 To: IN%"JGMORRIGAN@imail.nsac.ns.ca" "Jane G Morrigan", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: is an animal an "it" or "he or she"? No matter how you look at it, an animal does have gender, as well as feelings. They should be referred to as "he" or "she". How would you like it if someone called one of your children an "it" just because they were not a full grown human? Rob Mudra Assistant Manager DM Pets and Animals forum http://pets.dm.net rob@dm.net From: IN%"kasia@bison.zbs.bialowieza.pl" "Katarzyna Daleszczyk" 15-APR-1998 00:34:02.17 To: IN%"JGMORRIGAN@imail.nsac.ns.ca" "Jane G Morrigan" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: is an animal an "it" or "he or she"? On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Jane G Morrigan wrote: > The other day I was corrected by a senior researcher upon his reading > a paper I wrote in which I referred to a cow as "she", and other > animals in general as "he or she". I contend that animals are not > objects, and therefore using personal pronouns to refer to them is > quite proper. In my opinion, animals are most definitely subjects. > The senior researcher's comment was that"it is not the convention" > to do so. Of course, I continually read "it" in the literature, and > think that perhaps the time is right for a change! Please, I would > really like to hear your views on this! English is not ny native language, but I've learned that when you refer to an animal with known sex (I mean using words like 'cow', 'bull', 'cock', 'hen') the proper pronoun is 'she' or 'he'. But maybe in scientific papers the rule is different. Kasia From: IN%"Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "CM. Sherwin" 15-APR-1998 02:31:10.02 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: 'it' or 'he' or 'she' Dear All, As most of us who write research articles for publication in scientific journals are aware, the use of personal pronouns is actively discouraged. Whether we agree or disagree with this is not necessarily the point. Publication of articles is a (the!) major criterion by which our research careers develop. We may not like the styles or rules that journals impose upon us sometimes apparently arbitrarily (e.g. discouraging use of the first person, non-standardised formats for references, even levels of statistical significance!), however, if we wish to further our careers and be successful in publishing, we must play by the rules of the journals, editors and referees. This does not mean we should not attempt to change word usage and style, however, I feel that most protests posted to this bulletin board are perhaps better directed to the journals. Incidentally, I would be most interested to know where the scientific evidence is for the apparently certain existence of Tanimal feelingsU as indicated by the recently posted message below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No matter how you look at it, an animal does have gender, as well as feelings. They should be referred to as "he" or "she". How would you like it if someone called one of your children an "it" just because they were not a full grown human? Rob Mudra Assistant Manager DM Pets and Animals forum http://pets.dm.net rob@dm.net >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, Chris Sherwin University of Bristol From: IN%"gatland@ihug.co.nz" "Allan Gatland" 15-APR-1998 04:22:37.36 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Re:'it' or 'he' or 'she' Hello All >Incidentally, I would be most interested to know where the scientific >evidence is for the apparently certain existence of Tanimal feelingsU as >indicated by the recently posted message below. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >No matter how you look at it, an animal does have gender, as well as >feelings. They should be referred to as "he" or "she". I would be more interested to know where the non-verbal scientific evidence is for the existance of feelings in humans. If the existence of "feeling" (? needs a definition) in humans can be proved without relying on verbal communication, then the same techniques can be used for non-humans. Allan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Allan Gatland ZooCheck New Zealand web site: http://shell.ihug.co.nz/~gatland/zoocheck.htm mail: PO Box 15520, New Lynn, Auckland, New Zealand You can respond to this e-mail online. If you have ICQ my ICQ# is 10647454 If you don't have ICQ you can page me through: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/10647454 From: IN%"prato@imiucca.csi.unimi.it" 15-APR-1998 05:24:59.11 To: IN%"Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "CM. Sherwin" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: 'it' or 'he' or 'she' "CM. Sherwin" wrote: >Incidentally, I would be most interested to know where the scientific >evidence is for the apparently certain existence of Tanimal feelingsU as >indicated by the recently posted message below. Hello all, Do we have scientifically evidence for the existence of feelings and emotions in newborns humans infants? Shall we consider scientifically correct to take their behaviour as an index of feelings and emotions? Is the information about feelings and emotions provided by a newborn more convincing than that provided by a dog or a chimp? I think this is an interesting point to think about. Best regards, Emanuela Prato Previde Emanuela Prato Previde Assistant Professor Istituto di Psicologia Facolta' di Medicina e Chirurgia Universita' di Milano Via T. Pini, 1 20134 Milano Voice: (39)(2) 21210.201 Fax: (39)(2) 2641.3376 Email: prato@imiucca.csi.unimi.it From: IN%"C.M.E.Ryan@exeter.ac.uk" "room 016 wsl-Animal behaviour" 15-APR-1998 06:24:50.38 To: IN%"Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "CM. Sherwin" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: 'it' or 'he' or 'she' On Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:30:13 +0100 (BST) CM. Sherwin wrote: > From: CM. Sherwin > Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:30:13 +0100 (BST) > Subject: 'it' or 'he' or 'she' > To: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca > > > > Dear All, > > As most of us who write research articles for publication in scientific > journals are aware, the use of personal pronouns is actively discouraged. > Dear All, The journal Animal Behaviour has 'encouraged' the use of the first person and active voice in submitted manuscripts since 1988 (!) and more recently have indicated that they should be used in the main text 'wherever feasible' (Anim. Behav., 1996, Instructions for Authors, Vol 51(3) onwards). > > Incidentally, I would be most interested to know where the scientific > evidence is for the apparently certain existence of Tanimal feelingsU as > indicated by the recently posted message below. > > I can only agree with Emanuela's and Allan's responses to this point. This whole discussion about using personal pronouns and even names (!!) when referring to animals seems to reflect a (surely outdated?) paranoia about what is and isn't 'objective' usage. I personally use gender pronouns such as 'he' or 'she' when referring to individuals where the sex is known and 'it' when referring to 'an animal' in the theoretical or abstract sense. This does not seem to me in the least anthropomorhic; merely a statement of fact. I also use names, because they can be a convenient ready-reference system. When we acquire a new set of research animals here, were ring them with coloured leg-rings. The left leg-ring is always the same colour for any given batch, the right is different for each individual. We try to give the birds names which indicate the batch, the ring colours and any physical peculiarities the bird might have. Thus our current batch of birds all have cherry-coloured left leg-rings - as this is a bluish-red, they are all called after New Labour politicians. Some examples of their names (with right leg-rings in brackets) are as follows: Tony (dark blue); Gordon (brown); Mandy (yellow: this bird was supplied as a male, but we strongly suspect (s)he may be female); Robin (cherry: this bird also has red plumage); Jack (grey), Ken (scarlet) etc... I hope that the UK readers of this list, at least, will agree that these names are a better aide-memoire than number or letter-codes, which are far more susceptible to errors in transcribing etc. Also, as all the data we collect from these birds are automatically recorded on computer, there is no risk of the name affecting our interpretation of what they are doing. Sorry to go on a bit - I guess it makes up for months of lurking! Catriona **************************************************************************** Dept. of Psychology Washington Singer Labs Room No: 016 University of Exeter Perry Road Exeter EX4 4QG, UK FAX +44 1392 264623 **************************************************************************** From: IN%"dmills@dmu.ac.uk" "Daniel Mills" 15-APR-1998 06:29:10.78 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: is an animal an "it" or "he or she"? This is an interesting point because it raises the hole issue of what is good science. Sometimes people follow rules "because that's the convention", but sometimes we need to look at the philosophical basis. Whilst I am not here to condone anthropomorphic sentiments, I think the complete rejection of anything that could be vaguely construed as anthropomorphic is both unsound scientifically ( if we are to accept evolutionary continuity) and in fact extremely anthropocentric. It implies that humans are something very different to the rest of the world. The terms "he" and "she" merely imply gender, as demonstrated in other languages, not human quality. But the English speaking scientific community have been well indoctrinated by behaviourist philosophy and tend to blindly follow Watson's Manifesto. As scientists we should question things not simply accept them. I have no problem with refering to the sex or name for that matter in any of my experimental subjects if it makes things clearer. Surely the merit of all these issues lies in the clarity of the message given, after all language is for comminicating. If some scientists wish to abstract the term "he" into something more then surely that is bad science on their part( inferring something beyond the data) Well I had to get it out my system Daniel Mills Senior Lecturer in Behavioural Studies and Animal Welfare De Montfort University Lincoln Caythorpe Campus From: IN%"ilsmith@utkux.utcc.utk.edu" "Ione Smith" 15-APR-1998 06:38:35.77 To: IN%"zooboy@inu.net" "Jason B. Searle" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: is an animal an "it" or "he or she"? On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Jason B. Searle wrote: > Interesting question you raise. I side with the senior researcher in this > case. The pronouns "he and she" are anthropomorphic terms that bestow > human characteristics on the subject in question. This usage may be > appropriate for informal conversation, however, when used in a formal, > scientific forum I believe the usage is inappropriate. Although humans are > animals, animals are not humans and do not warrant the usage of such > anthropomorphic terms. I'm sorry, but--huh? Animals do have gender, do they not? Ione -- Ione L. Smith, DVM -- Department of Comparative Medicine -- -- University of Tennessee, College of Veterinary Medicine -- ================================================== http://funnelweb.utcc.utk.edu/~ilsmith/SVME.html The Society for Veterinary Medical Ethics http://funnelweb.utcc.utk.edu/~ilsmith/ethics.html for all sides of the AR/AW/anti-AR debate http://funnelweb.utcc.utk.edu/~ilsmith/stereo.html the stereotypical behaviors database ================================================== I am always willing to learn, however I do not always like to be taught. -- Winston Churchill