From: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" 17-APR-1996 16:59:10.19 To: IN%"AJ.Rook@bbsrc.ac.uk" "ROOK" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Receipt Notification Requested" Subj: RE: Behavioural Statistics? On Wed, 17 Apr 1996, ANDREW ROOK wrote: > Oh good! Flushed some of you out of the woodwork. I like the cut of this fellow's jib! I'd happily let a proper statistician tell me what to do, whether he was unionized or not. But I have to try to figure some things out for myself. One thing I did notice is that statisticians, whether in person or in writing will argue that black is black and white is white, when you know perfectly well that all is grey (except when it is lurid purple with eye-popping yellow stripes. It seems to me that statistical rigour almost demands that you give up any pretention to realism. Two things to bear in mind about statistics: 1. Stats are mathematical tools used to describe stuff that happens in the REAL world. 2. Statistics is/are the servant, we are the masters! When we talk about independence we are making a decision about whether it is reasonable to treat animals within a larger group as individual replicates. What we choose to regard as the proper n depends on an assessment of how likely it is that the response of the individual is influenced by the other group members. If we consider this to be a risk then we may conclude that it is not meaningful to compare responses of individuals within the group but rather we should consider the group itself as a unit to be compared with other units. Yesterday I boldly (recklessly?) asserted that this is, or at least properly ought to be, a matter of qualitative judgement. Now I want to try to explain why. Suppose we want to test the hypothesis that the drug "Prozonk" makes steers less inclined to vocalise. We have 200 steers and we can organise them any way we like. So how do we get set up to test this hypothesis? 1. Treat 100 with Prozonk and 100 with inert control substance and put them all in a big paddock and watch how many times they vocalise. Problem: How do you know that vocalisation isn't influenced by a whole bunch of unknown variables that have nothing to do with the drug? Furthermore, how do you know whether the behaviour of the non-Prozonked animals isn't affected by the presence of Prozonked animals? Unknown variables are, of course, unknown. It isn't clear what you can do about them but they do challenge the notion that the individuals are behaving independently. One thing you can do is separate the treatment and control groups. 2. Treat as before and put all 100 Prozonked animals in pen 1 and all 100 control animals in an identical pen 2. Problem: You still can't be confident that the animals are independent so you conclude that you had better regard each group as a single unit. So you have n=1 for Prozonk and n=1 for control. 3. You put the 100 Prozonked steers in 10 pens of 10 animals each, and similarly for the controls. Great! you have multiplied your n by 10. But.. Problem: First, how do you know that frequency of vocalisation isn't affected by group size? You are no longer testing the same situation. You may be able to do some statistics but it is not clear that you are asking the same question as before. Second, how do you know that your 20 pens of animals are, in fact, independent of each other? What is the true criterion of independence such that one group will not interfere with another? If they can see, hear or smell each other they could be interfering. This will depend on the kind of barrier between them, the distance and which way the wind is blowing. Do they have to be in different pens, different buildings or different continents? 4. You put each animal in a pen on its own (n=100). Whoopee! You surely have some good numbers now. Or do you..? Problem: Maybe being SO independent (ie isolated) upsets them to the extent that the effect of Prozonk on their rate of vocalisation is lost in the general uproar! OK. Maybe you think this scenario is absurd. But the point is that if you are interested in what happens in a certain situation you should test that situation. If you change the picture just so you can avoid violating some statistical convention maybe you keep the stats police happy but you have just found yet another way to change reality by the act of trying to measure it. Once again something eerily similar to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle gets in the way. Its a bit like when you change the cortisol concentration by the act of obtaining the sample. Only in this example you can't secure the assumption of STATISTICAL independence your test requires, without influencing the behaviour you are trying to measure. So you have to balance one kind of demand against the other. The risk that what you declare to be independent observations may in fact not be independent (in a REAL, as well as a statistical sense), has to be balanced against the risk of altering what has to be measured by designing the experimental setup to satisfy a particular statistical criterion. And these two have to be considered in relation to what the original question was. There is no algorithm that can tell you where the correct balance is. The judgement depends on what you know about the animals, not what the book of numbers tells you. What you decide may influence what kinds of statistics you can do without the stats police putting out an APB on you, or it can cause you to change the way you run your experiment. But the judgement is yours to make, and it >IS< a qualitative one. Jon Watts From: IN%"AJ.Rook@bbsrc.ac.uk" "ROOK" 18-APR-1996 03:19:47.01 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Behavioural Statistics? If I wanted to adopt the rather provocative 'stats police' tone used by Jon Watts I would say 'been there, done that, got the teeshirt'! However, it appears that we are moving towards a concensus so I'll be civil. We have had to address exactly the situation jon watts describes in our grazing behaviour work. Having shown that sheep in groups could not be regarded as independent replicates we decided to use groups as reps. Limited resources meant that these groups had to be small. But rather than make a qualitative judgement as to the appropriate group size we ran an experiment looking at the effect of group size (Penning et al 1993, Appl. Anim. Behav. Sci. 37: 101-109). Now for the admission. We do similar work with cows and do make a qualitative judgement about group size. However, I regard this as a flaw in our method. It is only done because we don't have the time and money to look at group size effects - basically because our funders are asking us to solve 'real world' problems, without perhaps appreciating the importance of getting the methods right first. I am also concerned that we don't fully isolate the groups from one another. Therefore we try to be careful how we phrase our reports of the work i.e. 'the groups were REGARDED as independent and efforts were made to MINIMISE the interaction between groups'. Its not perfect but it better than using individuals as reps when we KNOW they are not independent. Furthermore given the resources we could test the independence of our groups. None of that changes the fact that in principle it need not be a qualitative judgement. Andrew Rook Institute of Grassland and Environmental Research, North Wyke, Okehampton, Devon EX20 2SB UK rook@bbsrc.ac.uk From: IN%"jon.cooper@zoology.oxford.ac.uk" 18-APR-1996 06:03:04.62 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Moo. I'm not mad. Now that the mad cow panic has calmed down, I'd like to add a little something to place the recent scare in some context. The announcement that got the ball rolling from the British minister of health which admitted that consumption of beef products were a possible cause of CJD in man, was based on a report (and Lancet article) produced by the CJD surveilance unit in Edinburgh. In this they described a "new" form of CJD which they had found in ten youngish (as in less than 50 years old) people in the past 18 minths or so. In their article it is unclear as to weather the new form is "new to the world", as in totally different from other forms of CJD that have been in existance for thousands of years OR "new to science" as in never been spotted before. No causal relationship was demonstrated between eating beef products and this "new" form of CJD, but it was an unavoidable possible explaination. A second plausible explaination is that these new forms have arisen simply because scientists are now looking harder. The average incidence of CJD in Britain is rare at around 50 people per year, largely amongst older folk. The average doctor or pathologist was therefor unlikely if ever to actually come across cases of CJD. If they did, then they could easily mistake CJD for other more common brain degenerative disorders, such as Alzeimer's, which have very much the same symptoms. The true incidence of CJD may therefor have been underestimated in years gone by, and the effect of BSE in cattle has not been to cause more CJD in man, but to make us look harder. In a parallel situation, the British goverment has just this last week agreed to compensate the families of people who had contracted CJD through treatment with growth hormones, which had been extracted from the brains of cadavers. The incidence of CJD in this group was very much higher than the rest of the population, and incidently suggests that the incidence of CJD in the entire population had been underestimated, if nothing else because people diagnosed with CJD would not have been used to supply brain tissue. Lastly similar spongiform diseases have been found in mink (Mad mink disease) and cats (Mad cat disease), but only identified in the 1980's and there is still controversely as to wether these diseases have arisen from eating cow offal, or always have been around in the population. This is not supposed to be a denial that BSE can cause CJD in people, just a slightly different perspective on things. If I weren't a veggie wierdo, then I'd very happily eat a nice juicy rump steak with no fear for my sanity, but I'd avoid dodgy meat pies of unknown origin and contents. If this has all been a bit heavy, then this is what some West Country beef farmer who were being interviewed for BBC radio following a meeting with the British Minister of Agriculture thought of it all. On being asked what was wrong with the beef industry, he said he said "Nothing". The journo hack smelt blood so went for the jugular, asking "So the scientists were wrong to link BSE with CJD?" Farmer, unphased, "You'll find scientists say there's no risk from eating beef. It's you buggers in the media that have whipped up all the panic" Journo, grasping at the fallback cliche, "So you'd shhot the messenger" Farmer "Yes" End of interview Jonathan Cooper Jonathan Cooper Animal Behaviour Research Group Department of Zoology South Parks Rd. Oxford OX1 3PS U.K. Tel 01865 271288 Fax 01865 310447 From: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" 18-APR-1996 08:21:40.92 To: IN%"AJ.Rook@bbsrc.ac.uk" "ROOK" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Receipt Notification Requested" Subj: All Points Bulletin Jon Watts, unarmed and not very dangerous. Arrest anyway. Re remarks about "Stats Police". I did mean to be provocative, but not rude, so please forgive the Orwellian allusion. Jon :-) From: IN%"APPLEBYM@NCCCOT.AGR.CA" 18-APR-1996 08:32:00.51 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology" CC: Subj: asab video Dear All Since the ASAB video has been mentioned, I should like to comment on it. I think that in many respects it is excellent. It was produced to fill a niche in the UK schools' curriculum on stimuli and responses (hence its simple title Stimulus Response) and it is refreshing to see basic behavioural principles illustrated in farm animals for a change. The coverage of the science is also extremely clear and well worth showing university students as well as school classes. There is another aspect to it, though, which makes me uncomfortable. There is an implicit message throughout that intensive agriculture is wrong: animals have well-developed senses, for example, so keeping them in systems where they can't use those senses is inappropriate. Now I agree with the message whole-heartedly: my problem is with the fact that it is implicit rather than explicit, and that the implications are not followed through. For example, there is a very heavy implication that hens should not be kept in cages, but no consideration whatever of alternative systems or their advantages or disadvantages. Now it may well be that extended discussion of such issues would have been out of place in this particular video - which as I said was intended for a particular slot in the curriculum - but I do feel that this could have been handled slightly better. Showing the video to students, I discuss this unstated message afterwards, but obviously most of the hundreds of schools which have bought the video will not do so. The welfare issue is an immensely complex one for agiriculture and we must guard against oversimplifying. I think we should be particularly vigilant against using what could be regarded by some as propaganda, and especially so at the school level. I have already discussed this with Audrey Eyton and Christine Nicol, who were involved in making the film, and I shall send a copy of this message to Michael Dockery and Michael Reiss who have been involved on behalf of ASAB. Mike Appleby Until September: applebym@ncccot.agr.ca From: IN%"s.e.williams@mail.utexas.edu" 18-APR-1996 14:55:38.81 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Hi all, I'm a prevet student at the University of Texas, and I'm looking for some information on how vettest 8008 works, specifically the spectrophotometry of it, and its relationship to blood glucose, ALT, and BUN levels. I'm wondering how it translates the found concentration into these enzyme ranges. I'm also trying to find out why a cat's mood affects its glucose levels (eg scared cats have higher levels). Any help would be appreciated. Please send to my e-mail address or the list, if appropriate. Sincerely Sharon Williams | /\_/\ | (- -) \_-------=\"/= Sharon Williams | ______ / s.e.williams@mail.utexas.edu || || || || ^^ ^^ From: IN%"n.ambrose@bham.ac.uk" 19-APR-1996 02:39:02.36 To: IN%"s.e.williams@mail.utexas.edu", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Cat Moods and Glucose Sahron Williams wrote: > Hi all, > I'm a prevet student at the University of Texas, and I'm looking > for some information on how vettest 8008 works, specifically the > spectrophotometry of it, and its relationship to blood glucose, ALT, and > BUN levels. I'm wondering how it translates the found concentration into > these enzyme ranges. I'm also trying to find out why a cat's mood affects > its glucose levels (eg scared cats have higher levels). Any help would be > appreciated. Please send to my e-mail address or the list, if appropriate. A helpful biochemist writes: Sorry can't help about the vettest thing but i can give you a clue to why cats have different glucose levels when scared etc. I think it is possible due to glucocorticoids (cortisol in cats). They prepare the animal for activity (ie so the damn thing can run away if scared!) by changing from anabolic activity to catabolic activity. They also suppress non-essential activities. The increase is in glucose comes from three sources: 1: Liver catabolism of Glycogen to Glucose 2: Depression of insulin levels (stops reformation of Glycogen) 3: Increased release of skeletal amino acids which are further turned into glucose with excretion of nitrogen from the kidneys (Klasing 1985, Influence of stress on protein metabolism. In: Animal Stress. (ed by the one and only G.P.Moberg). American Physiological Society. Bethesda, Maryland. 269-280) NB 1 and 2 are much the same i have a feeling that the two enzymes they regulate glycogen metabolism are closely associated, one being promoted and one inhibited by insulin levels. If you are dead keen and want to know exact pathways for the above I suggest you find any books on diabetes melitus, as i will guess the more astute of you will have noticed the biochemical similarities between the glucocorticoid reponse and diabetes melitus. I suggest most of the direct effect of cortisol is on depression of insulin and this depression causes all the other effects? Hope this is of some use! Neil XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX X Neil Ambrose X X Department of Biomedical Science and Ethics X X The University of Birmingham X X Edgabaston X X Birmingham X X B15 2TT X X 0121 414 5390 (W) 0121 427 9839 (H) 0589 236 345 (M) X X Email - N.Ambrose@bham.ac.uk - Main mail X X or - nxa585@isdugp.bham.ac.uk - Unix account X XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX From: IN%"dmills@dmu.ac.uk" "Daniel Simon Mills" 19-APR-1996 02:52:24.93 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: introduction from dmu Lincoln (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Hi This is just to let you know that e-mail has finally come to De Montfort University's School of Agriculture and Horticulture in Lincolnshire England. There is a small team of animal scientists out here on the farm with the horses and small animals whose main interest is animal welfare. We are looking to develop further the application of psychological concepts to aspects of ethology. (We run a degree programme here which brings together applied ethology and comparative psychology). I am particularly interested in addressing the problems of individual variation (dare I say personality) and developing techniques for evaluating this. I'm also interested in the social requirements and behaviour of animals and the assessment methods used. We are a new University with lots of animals with which to play if anyone is interested in sharing ideas. We also run a behaviour clinic here for animals who have had their welfare screwed up or who are having a great time screwing up their owner's welfare. Since moving here, I've noticed a big rise in the incidence of underlying pathology affecting these cases (+30%) and I wonder if others in a similar situation find the same? When I was in general practice it was 13%. Daniel Mills dmills@dmu.ac.uk From: IN%"lvcjn@ssa.bristol.ac.uk" "C.J.Nicol" 19-APR-1996 03:35:38.52 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: ASAB video Mike Appleby is quite right that I had some involvement in the ASAB video Stimulus Response - many of the sequences were filmed at Bristol - and I had fun training the hen to run the obstacle course. Mike believes the video carries an implicit message that intensive agriculture is wrong but one thing I have learned from making this video is that implicit messages are as variable as the people who observe the film. It has been criticised in other quarters for showing "animal experiments" at all - and for showing intensive systems (e.g. modified cages for laying hens, sows with electronic feeders) in a GOOD light. Implicit messages depend on the prior expectations, prejudices and knowledge of the audience. The aim of this video was NOT to present an overview of farming systems and their overall welfare/economic costs and benefits. It was to introduce the subject of animal behaviour to school children by expanding on the one (tiny) UK requirement that they should understand something of stimuli and responses. Farm animals were used for a variety of reasons, not least because I know slightly more about them than I know about lions or giraffes (which usually feature in animal behaviour films) - and it was cheaper not to have to fly the film crew to the Serengeti. The focus on animal behaviour meant that intensive systems were heavily featured - as questions regarding deprivation, frustration, stereotypic behaviour, the effects of environmental enrichment, could be most easily addressed with reference to these systems. MIke _ I am sure there is also a need for the film you want to make. One that considers farming systems as a whole - considers disease and health economic factors and public perception. But even when you have made your totally balanced film I bet someone finds a hidden implicit message in it. Seriously - maybe ISAE should make its own film. Stimulus Response has been purchased by more than 1200 secondary schools in the UK (about 25%) - not bad market penetration. It has sold at least 200 other copies - with increasing sales abroad to New Zealand and Switzerland. A German translation is in the offing. I believe credit card sales are still someway off - an international money order or banker's draft made out in British pounds will have to suffice for the present. Best wishes to you all! Christine Nicol Dept of Clinical Veterinary Science University of Bristol Langford House Bristol BS18 7DU UK From: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" 19-APR-1996 10:28:31.56 To: IN%"AJ.Rook@bbsrc.ac.uk" "ROOK" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Receipt Notification Requested" Subj: RE: Behavioural Statistics? Thanks for your thoughts about statistical independence etc. Sorry we didn't flush anyone else out to comment on the issue. I figure that however you design your experiment and whether you use statistical or qualitative criteria to make judgements about the independence of the animals, when the results come in you still have to interpret them in the light of whatever else you know about the subject. I don't think it is possible to get around the fact that doing science does require imagination, educated guesswork, rules of thumb and qualitative judgements, at least at some stage of the process. You remarked that having to fall back on qualitative decision-making indicates a flaw in the methods. There is a positive aspect to it. At least the researcher gets an opportunity to make use of some of the creative power that would normally go unused until the time when one has to figure out whether the results actually mean anything! Ooh! My flabby right hemisphere is throbbing. It just doesn't get enough exercise, I guess. I'll give it an aspirin and get its bigger brother to calculate a rigid workout schedule for it. Jon Watts From: IN%"ba1resep@uco.es" "Pilar Recuerda Serrano" 19-APR-1996 13:16:32.97 To: IN%"lvcjn@ssa.bris.ac.uk" "C.J.Nicol" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: ASAB video Dear Christine: I just have finish to showh your video in a Ph.D. course I'm teaching about welfare and environment enrrichment at the Cordoba University (Spain), other teacher uses it for the Ethology clasess for ungraduate students. I like it very much because it transmit the complexity of the behavioural mechanism in domestic animals, that so many people forget. The main reason to write you is that if you are interested I would be very please in doing the translation of the video to Spanish, as a free charge service of translation of the ISAE. As you may know there are few Animal Behaviour books or videos translated to Spanish and still less about Applied Ethology, so for many students it is very hard to learn about behaviour. Even in my course I have to do myself the translation of the videos because there is always some students that do not understand the English well enough. If you are interested let me know. Best Regards, Inma Estevez Departamento de Biologia Animal Facultad de Ciencias Universidad de Cordoba 14004 Cordoba telf: 57-218608 fax:57-218606 From: IN%"l.galhardo@ip.pt" 19-APR-1996 18:20:26.90 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: new subscription/environmental enrichment Dear all, Recently, I have joined the ISAE web and, for a while, have been watching your discussions in the shadows! Today I am going to introduce myself. I am a biologist and have done a MSc. course on Applied Animal Behaviour and Animal Welfare in Edinburgh. Nowadays, I am working in a division of animal welfare of the Portuguese Ministry of Agriculture. At the moment, as a personal initiative, I am organising a number of talks about "environmental enrichment" for caretakers to be held soon at the Lisbon Zoo. This Institution has still many enclosures in very poor conditions where the most basic requirements for the animals' welfare are not met. Despite the fact they are improving some of those, many animals (namely, some primates, bears, big cats) still have to wait a long time. Since some enriching strategies are more labour demanding then expensive, they can easily be adopted as soon as caretakers are motivated to do so. Therefore, my aim is to show them the importance of providing good conditions to the animals and to explain them some classical ideas of enrichment that do not require much money. Caretakers come from very different backgrounds and have various education levels, so talks must last for a short period of time and be kept very objective and simple. I will be very grateful to hearing opinions and suggestions from you, thanking in advance your cooperation. Yours, Leonor Galhardo l.galhardo@ip.pt From: IN%"cmeyer5@gwdg.de" "cmeyer5" 22-APR-1996 13:34:15.04 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: introduction Dear All, since I have mailed the joke on a statistical correlation between foot size and salary to the list, some people have asked me who I am. So let me introduce myself. I am a veterinarian and have recently received a doctoral degree for my thesis on animal welfare legislation, which is a comparison between Canadian and German laws on animal protection. (By the way, the thesis will be published in English in June or July...). I am currently enrolled in post-graduate courses on population genetics and molecular genetics (some people like to call this ). I am hoping to get a biology degree in this field next year. My main interests are animal welfare and species conservation. And this is an excellent opportunity to ask for your opinion: What is, or what should be, the relation between species conservation and animal protection? I personally would like to see these two things go hand in hand, but one could argue that individual protection of animals is opposed to protecting the species as a whole. I would really be interested in hearing what you think about this issue, on a philosophical level and in relation to practice. Curiously waiting for your comments !! Christiane From: IN%"signoret@tours.inra.fr" 22-APR-1996 13:43:10.39 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Parturition in pig I would be interested in having references on behaviour of sow and piglets DURING parturition. Thanks in advance to everybody. Yours J.P. Signoret J.P. Signoret From: IN%"d.arey@ab.sac.ac.uk" 23-APR-1996 07:56:27.94 To: IN%"Applied-Ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Do pigs have a heart? Hello My name is Dale Arey. I'm currently working on the organisation of social behaviour in sows at SAC Aberdeen, Scotland. This morning I had great difficulty in trying to measure the heart rate of sows using a 'POLAR' Sport Tester Heart Rate Monitor. Any tips on getting this equipment to work and/or experience with other equipment to monitor heart rate in sows would be most welcome. Dale Dale Arey Animal and Feed Technology SAC Craibstone Estate Bucksburn Aberdeen, AB21 9YA UK AB21 9YA Tel: 01224 711058 From: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" 23-APR-1996 08:20:45.28 To: IN%"d.arey@ab.sac.ac.uk" "Dale Arey" CC: IN%"Applied-Ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Do pigs have a heart? Dale, Have a look at: Friend, T. H., Dellmeier, G.R. and J.L. Stuart (1991) A non-invasive telemetry system for obtaining heart rate from free-ranging swine. Applied Animal Behaviour Science 29, 343-348. They used a Datacol system rather than the Polar Sport Tester, but they mounted it in a specially made nylon spandex jacket which held the transmitter and kept the (external) electrodes in place. If you have access to the Polar Sport gear, maybe you can make something similar to hold it. Jon Watts On Tue, 23 Apr 1996, Dale Arey wrote: > Hello > > My name is Dale Arey. I'm currently working on the organisation of > social behaviour in sows at SAC Aberdeen, Scotland. This morning I > had great difficulty in trying to measure the heart rate of sows using a 'POLAR' > Sport Tester Heart Rate Monitor. Any tips on getting this equipment > to work and/or experience with other equipment to monitor heart rate > in sows would be most welcome. > > Dale > > > Dale Arey > Animal and Feed Technology > SAC > Craibstone Estate > Bucksburn > Aberdeen, AB21 9YA > UK > AB21 9YA > Tel: 01224 711058 > From: IN%"gabouryc@EM.AGR.CA" "Chantal Gaboury" 23-APR-1996 08:33:23.85 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Dear Leonor Galhardo, Being interested in animal welfare, myself, I was wonderering if you could go into more detail about the "welfare strategies" that you are encouraging the zoo staff to adopt in order to increase the welfare of their animals? Sincerely, Chantal Gaboury gabouryc@em.agr.ca From: IN%"APPLEBYM@NCCCOT.AGR.CA" 23-APR-1996 09:00:37.86 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology" CC: Subj: Four little rabbits I once saw a passage which was rather well done, along the following lines. Can anyone give me a reference? 'Once upon a time there were four little rabbits, whose names were Flopsy, Mopsy, Cottontail and Peter. Flopsy was kept in a laboratory for experiments. Mopsy was reared on a farm and put into a pie. Cottontail was kept as a pet by a little girl. And Peter, as we know, was a pest.' Incidentally, I always notice that 'pest' is an anagram of 'pets'. Mike applebym@ncccot.agr.ca From: IN%"gabouryc@EM.AGR.CA" "Chantal Gaboury" 23-APR-1996 15:35:04.57 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: try some KY...or Taro... Hi Dale! I don't know if pigs have a heart, but you got mine thumping when I read your letter because, not only have I experienced this problem, but we have found the solution...literally! We are monitoring the heart rates of calves using the same equipment that you described and we were having problems for 3 reasons. When the calf moved, its leg moved the transmittor attached to the belt. This problem has rectified itself. Secondly, this equipment is designed for humans. It seems that one electrode must be placed on the heart and the other must be far enough away from the heart so that it is grounded and therefore you can record a potential difference between the electrodes at each heart beat. I think because of the way the system is designed, the second electrode is not far enough from the calf's heart to record a potential diff. So we modified the belt--we cut the plastic piece containing the electrodes and increased the distance between them by sewing them onto a belt. We then attached the electrodes to the transmittor via wires. Last but not least, you must be sure that there is a wet substance that is a good conductor under your electrodes. We are using a combination of saline solution and Taro gel. The former is easiest to dissolve the salt in and combining it with the latter reduces evapouration. This system is working well for us...in fact, we don't even have to shave the calves, we just generously add the conducting solution to the fur of our animals and voila! beep! beep! beep! Chantal Gaboury Agriculture Canada Lennoxville, Quebec If you have anymore questions: gabouryc@em.agr.ca From: IN%"dmills@dmu.ac.uk" "Daniel Simon Mills" 24-APR-1996 01:40:32.34 To: IN%"APPLEBYM@NCCCOT.AGR.CA" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology" Subj: RE: Four little rabbits The continuing adventures of Peter Rabbit and friends can be found in chapter 13: movement towards an International Convention for the protection of animals - the further adventures of 4 rabbits by D.S. Favre ( ? nomme de plume B. Potter?) In ANimal Welfare and the Law. ? CUP. Ed P.N. Humphreys & P. Todd - it's a green book! D.s Favre's address: Professor, Detroit College of Law 130 East Elizabeth St,. Detroit Michigan48201 USA On Tue, 23 Apr 1996 APPLEBYM@NCCCOT.AGR.CA wrote: > > I once saw a passage which was rather well done, along the following lines. > Can anyone give me a reference? > 'Once upon a time there were four little rabbits, whose names were Flopsy, > Mopsy, Cottontail and Peter. Flopsy was kept in a laboratory for > experiments. Mopsy was reared on a farm and put into a pie. Cottontail was > kept as a pet by a little girl. And Peter, as we know, was a pest.' > > Incidentally, I always notice that 'pest' is an anagram of 'pets'. > > Mike > > applebym@ncccot.agr.ca > From: IN%"mi095@mluri.sari.ac.uk" 24-APR-1996 02:21:20.08 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Do pigs have a heart? Dear All In response to Dale Arey's question "Do pigs have a heart?" I think that the answer may be related to the fact that they do, but that they also have a considerable amount of body fat. When using the Polar system transcutaneously on sheep, those individuals which presented the greatest problems in establishing a reliable signal were also the fattest. Pete Goddard. +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ | Pete Goddard | Janet: mi095@mluri.sari.ac.uk | | MLURI, Craigiebuckler | Phone: (0224) 318611 ext. 2423 | | Aberdeen, AB9 2QJ, Scotland, UK | Fax: (0224) 311556 | +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ From: IN%"esa620@ed.sac.ac.uk" 24-APR-1996 03:50:11.81 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Yes pigs do have hearts! I am currently doing a PhD at the University of Edinburgh concerned with the welfare of farrowing sows. After various problems with using the Polar Sport Tester PE3000 to measure the heart rate of sows, we found a method that was relatively successful. This involved placing the # transmitter diagonally between the front legs of the sows with the back electrode on the left side. Also instead of using the belt we made a harness to keep it in place, and used 'blue sensor' electrodes with additional gel. We only used this on 2 or 3 animals so is probably not perfect however it may be worth trying. Susan Jarvis SAC-Edinburgh (GABS) From: IN%"MARYB@lab0.vet.ed.ac.uk" "Mary Booth" 24-APR-1996 04:56:26.18 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Do pigs have a heart? Hi Dale, You seem to be receiving plenty of specific advice for the positioning of the electrodes and design of harness for them but you may be interested in the solution we found for stopping electrodes moving around under harness. We were working with Shetland ponies and placed the electrodes near the withers and just behind their left elbow. Instead of the metal plates we used adhesive ecg pads which were pre-gelled with a salt solution (Skintact 25 ECG, I can send you a couple of packs if you like). They have press-stud attatchments and John Lewis sells press studs which fit well and can be soldered onto cables of appropriate length (I can send you some of these also). As a harness we used elastic surcingles (belts) available from any hosey outlet which have the advantage of being adjustable to many individuals and also grip the body well. Another alternative, if you are handy with a sewing machine, are old car seatbelts and velcro. Bearing Murphy's Law in mind, I also used to tape all points of attachment with electricians tape. Best wishes, Mary Booth, Dept. Vet. Clinical Studies, R (D) S V S Vet. Field Station, Uni. of Edinburgh e-mail maryb@vet.lab0.ed.ac.uk From: IN%"haussman@rs4703.ansc1.uni-hohenheim.de" "HANS HAUSSMANN" 24-APR-1996 05:17:20.76 To: IN%"cmeyer5@gwdg.de" "cmeyer5" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: introduction | Dear All, | since I have mailed the joke on a statistical correlation between foot size | and salary to the list, some people have asked me who I am. So let me | introduce myself. | | I am a veterinarian and have recently received a doctoral degree for my | thesis on animal welfare legislation, which is a comparison between Canadian | and German laws on animal protection. (By the way, the thesis will be | published in English in June or July...). | I am currently enrolled in post-graduate courses on population genetics and | molecular genetics (some people like to call this ). I am | hoping to get a biology degree in this field next year. | | My main interests are animal welfare and species conservation. And this is | an excellent opportunity to ask for your opinion: | | What is, or what should be, the relation between species conservation and | animal protection? I personally would like to see these two things go hand in | hand, but one could argue that individual protection of animals is opposed to | protecting the species as a whole. I would really be interested in hearing | what you think about this issue, on a philosophical level and in relation to | practice. | | Curiously waiting for your comments !! | | Christiane Dear Christiane, it is always nice to find another person who has a heart for animals! Animal welfare is more important for me than species conservation. Both aims are ideals, two ideals, independent from each other. Am I wrong? ___________________ ,--¬_ Hans Haussmann haussman@hh.as.uni-hohenheim.de ,;;,_ ____/ /|/ Institute for Animal Husbandry and Animal Breeding ;; ( )___, ) ' (Institut fuer Tierhaltung und Tierzuechtung) ,' // V\__ University of Hohenheim, Germany _ / \ / \ Fax 0711-459-3290 ¬ ¬ ' Fon 0711-459-2476 (-3006) ___________________ Mail Uni Hohenheim, 470/HG, D-70593 Stuttgart From: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" 24-APR-1996 10:20:34.65 To: IN%"cmeyer5@gwdg.de" "cmeyer5" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: Welfare vs Conservation A few days ago Christiane Meyer asked what people thought about the relationship between, or relative importance of, species conservation and safeguarding animal welfare. Both very important areas obviously, but it is not easy to compare the worth of two different ideals directly. As far as I am concerned, species conservation is vital for a whole lot of reasons. mostly selfish or anthropocentric reasons, I should add. Maintaining ecological "balance" (whatever that is), preserving medicinal resources which we haven't yet re-learned how to exploit properly, plus of course the enjoyment and fascination they provide. Incidentally, Stephen Budiansky's book "Nature's Keepers: The New Science of Nature Management" (1995) provides some refreshingly cynical perspectives on our relationships with "nature". Species are populations, of course, not individuals. Welfare is an attribute of individuals rather than populations since within the population not all members will have equal degrees of wellbeing, or equal responses to the conditions within which they are attempting to cope ("Broomian" perspective!). I feel more concerned about the welfare of an extant individual than whether a certain animal exists or not. Therefore I have to say that I find animal welfare a more compelling goal than species conservation per se. However, if a population or species is under threat due to loss of habitat, disease, over-exploitation, human carelessness or whatever, there will be many individuals suffering hunger, pain, illness and so forth which are worthy of concern about their welfare. Therefore in addition to the anthropocentric, ecological and resource implications of species conservation, concerns about the welfare of individual animals (arguably also an anthropocentric concern) are a valid motivation for trying to secure viable populations in adequate environments. This may have the collateral effect of tending to conserve the species. It seems to me that animal welfare and species conservation are goals that can neither be properly compared or properly separated. But either way, I would always be tempted to argue that we do it for ourselves as much as for them. Jon Watts From: IN%"gabouryc@EM.AGR.CA" "Chantal Gaboury" 24-APR-1996 14:16:38.11 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Pigs and their hearts... Dear Dale, I heard that if you are using the Polar systems on pigs, leaving the belts intact and placing the electrodes on the chest, but on the opposite side of the heart, works well. If you plan on modifying the belts in the manner, to make sure you always have a belt that is taught, you may want to use bike innertubes as your elastic component and have the rest of the belt made of non-stretchy material. Elastic belts tend to wear out and become loose by the end of the project... Chantal Gaboury gabouryc@em.agr.ca From: IN%"Birgitte.I.Damm@ihh.kvl.dk" "Birgitte Iversen Damm" 25-APR-1996 00:34:30.53 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: introduction Hello everyone! I have just been added to the A-E network and have been asked to introduce myself. I am a Ph.D.student at The Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University in Copenhagen, Denmark. I particularly interested in the periparturient behaviour of sows and I am studying various aspects of nestbuilding behaviour. I look forward to debating on the network. Birgitte Damm. From: IN%"joseph.garner@new.oxford.ac.uk" "Joseph Garner" 25-APR-1996 05:56:07.62 To: IN%"APPLEBYM@NCCCOT.AGR.CA" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology" Subj: RE: Four little rabbits I don't know anything about the rabbits, but "Vriginia Bottomley" is an anagram of "I'm an evil tory bigot". Joe. On Tue, 23 Apr 1996 APPLEBYM@NCCCOT.AGR.CA wrote: > > I once saw a passage which was rather well done, along the following lines. > Can anyone give me a reference? > 'Once upon a time there were four little rabbits, whose names were Flopsy, > Mopsy, Cottontail and Peter. Flopsy was kept in a laboratory for > experiments. Mopsy was reared on a farm and put into a pie. Cottontail was > kept as a pet by a little girl. And Peter, as we know, was a pest.' > > Incidentally, I always notice that 'pest' is an anagram of 'pets'. > > Mike > > applebym@ncccot.agr.ca > From: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" 25-APR-1996 07:40:47.84 To: IN%"joseph.garner@new.oxford.ac.uk" "Joseph Garner" CC: IN%"APPLEBYM@NCCCOT.AGR.CA", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology" Subj: RE: Four little rabbits On Thu, 25 Apr 1996, Joseph Garner wrote: > I don't know anything about the rabbits, but "Vriginia Bottomley" > is an anagram of "I'm an evil tory bigot". > > Joe. ....and Vriginia Bottomley is an anagram of "Virginia Bottomley". Are you trying to tell us something important about your political beliefs, Joe? I can only speak for myself, but I'm not interested. What do you think about the welfare vs species conservation question? Jon Watts From: IN%"joseph.garner@new.oxford.ac.uk" "Joseph Garner" 25-APR-1996 08:43:42.49 To: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" CC: IN%"joseph.garner@new.oxford.ac.uk" "Joseph Garner", IN%"APPLEBYM@NCCCOT.AGR.CA", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology" Subj: RE: Four little rabbits The really enjoyable thing about this newsgroups is its pluralism, and one manifestation of this fact is that serious debates run side by side with anecdotes, advice, information, and jokes. One joke made me think of another joke, sorry if I offended anyone. Jon hinted that I should redeem myself. In fact, I haven't been following the "welfare v conservation" debate, but seeing it put like that did make me want to say something. It seems odd to me that we should be debating these two essential fields of research as if they were mutually exclusive, for two reasons. I agree that we should worry that keeping endangered animals in captive breeding programs might impair their welfare by virtue of their captivity, BUT practically speaking when you have adjusted everything you can about the animal's environment to try to persaude it to breed, you will be inherently improving the welfare of the animal. For instance, the breeding success of Bank Voles (my particular animal) is very strongly related to disturbance, cover and other aspects of the environment that have been shown to be important factors connected to stereotypy (and the welfare) of these animals. Secondly, and I apologise in advance if this isn't what people mean by "welfare v conservation", but in the modern funding climate, any discussion of the relative merits of two different fields of research is suicidal for science as a whole. If we a being forced to chose between welfare or conservation, either for funding, or if we are being forced to decide whether the welfare of indivudals is more or less important than preserving their species, then we should first stop to ask what is forcing us to make such a decision. Could it possibly be becuase of the appalling state of funding in this country? Our first committment should be to fostering two essential and fundamentally interlinked fields of research. It's back to pluralism again. Joe. From: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" 25-APR-1996 10:40:33.71 To: IN%"joseph.garner@new.oxford.ac.uk" "Joseph Garner" CC: IN%"joseph.garner@new.oxford.ac.uk" "Joseph Garner", IN%"APPLEBYM@NCCCOT.AGR.CA", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology" Subj: RE: Four little rabbits On Thu, 25 Apr 1996, Joseph Garner wrote: > > The really enjoyable thing about this newsgroups is its > pluralism, and one manifestation of this fact is that serious debates run > side by side with anecdotes, advice, information, and jokes. One joke > made me think of another joke, sorry if I offended anyone. > > Jon hinted that I should redeem myself. > I'm sorry too, Joe. I think I mistook you for one of the wiseguys who have been clogging up some of the less enjoyable newsgroups. So please forgive me. I'm afraid I've put my foot in my mouth again! Thanks for your comments on the conservation/welfare question. The two do overlap quite a bit. I agree it may be harmful to try to set them up as separate competitors for a share of the same funds. Having left the U.K. for a while, I'm not in a great position to comment on the current state of research funding there. But what I notice from reading the classifieds in New Scientist is the same as when I was there. It looks like what money there is seems to be getting poured into biochemistry, molecular genetics, microbiology etc, rather than "proper" science. It seems like you can get money to fiddle about with blobs of organic goop in test tubes easily enough, but if you want to do something a little more interesting you are well and truly screwed. Jon "No sense of humour AT ALL!" Watts P.S. I admit that for the purpose of this message, I am defining "proper" science as being "the study of anything that I, personally, am interested in! (Now who's a bigot?) From: IN%"jhills@metz.une.edu.au" 25-APR-1996 18:27:10.24 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: feeding behaviour in sheep Dear all I am currently running a series of choice feeding experiments in sheep, with the only difference in the diets being the level of sulfur. Initial experiments indicate that selection for requirements is possible. I now want to determine how the sheep are associating the postingestive consequence with the feeds on offer. One way to do this may be to mask, using a strong flavour or odour, a particular flavour or odour that was present in the diets, so that any difference they may have detected before is no longer detectible. By doing this we may be able to determine (in this simplified experimental situation) what senses are more important in enabling appropiate selection to be made. My question is - does anyone know whether it is possible to mask certain odours or flavours in feeds for ruminants, with strong odours (eg mentholated ointment) or flavours (eg garlic) according to human estimations? (I'm trying not to be anthropomorphic!!!!) Thanks in advance James ------------------------------ James Hills Department of Animal Science University of New England Armidale 2351 Email: jhills@metz.une.edu.au Phone: (067) 73 5136 Fax: (067) 73 3275 ------------------------------ From: IN%"joseph.garner@new.oxford.ac.uk" "Joseph Garner" 26-APR-1996 04:11:31.34 To: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" CC: IN%"joseph.garner@new.oxford.ac.uk" "Joseph Garner", IN%"APPLEBYM@NCCCOT.AGR.CA", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology" Subj: RE: Four little rabbits My original message which sparked this all off was meant for Jon only, but it got broadcast world-wide. Ooops. Strangely enough, it's generated a whole load of replies from friendly people out there, so the lesson is make an idiot out of yourself in front of hundreds of people and you'll get lots of friendly e-mail from all over the place. Joe. On Thu, 25 Apr 1996, Jon Watts wrote: > > > On Thu, 25 Apr 1996, Joseph Garner wrote: > > > > > The really enjoyable thing about this newsgroups is its > > pluralism, and one manifestation of this fact is that serious debates run > > side by side with anecdotes, advice, information, and jokes. One joke > > made me think of another joke, sorry if I offended anyone. > > > > Jon hinted that I should redeem myself. > > > > I'm sorry too, Joe. I think I mistook you for one of the wiseguys who > have been clogging up some of the less enjoyable newsgroups. So please > forgive me. I'm afraid I've put my foot in my mouth again! > > Thanks for your comments on the conservation/welfare question. The two do > overlap quite a bit. I agree it may be harmful to try to set them up as > separate competitors for a share of the same funds. Having left the U.K. > for a while, I'm not in a great position to comment on the current state > of research funding there. But what I notice from reading the classifieds > in New Scientist is the same as when I was there. It looks like what money > there is seems to be getting poured into biochemistry, molecular genetics, > microbiology etc, rather than "proper" science. > > It seems like you can get money to fiddle about with blobs of organic > goop in test tubes easily enough, but if you want to do something a little > more interesting you are well and truly screwed. > > > Jon "No sense of humour AT ALL!" Watts > > > P.S. I admit that for the purpose of this message, I am defining "proper" > science as being "the study of anything that I, personally, am interested > in! (Now who's a bigot?) > > > > > From: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" 26-APR-1996 08:18:27.18 To: IN%"joseph.garner@new.oxford.ac.uk" "Joseph Garner" CC: IN%"joseph.garner@new.oxford.ac.uk" "Joseph Garner", IN%"APPLEBYM@NCCCOT.AGR.CA", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology" Subj: RE: Four little rabbits On Fri, 26 Apr 1996, Joseph Garner wrote: > My original message which sparked this all off was meant for Jon only, > but it got broadcast world-wide. Ooops. Strangely enough, it's generated > a whole load of replies from friendly people out there, so the lesson is > make an idiot out of yourself in front of hundreds of people and you'll > get lots of friendly e-mail from all over the place. > > Joe. > No, Joe. You weren't the one making an idiot out of yourself. The real lesson is that if you are a reasonable person with a fair point to express and you get bushwhacked by a sanctimonious little b**tard from Saskatchewan, then you deserve some friendly support. Actually, I don't have a sense of humour and I take everything literally. This makes me easy to wind up but difficult to entertain. By the way, it is snowing here in Saskatoon this morning. The friendly morning radio duo "Brent and Penney" on CKOM were discussing lynching the weather forecasting guy, and asked him if there was a nice big tree near the weather office they could hang him from. I didn't see how that was going to improve the weather. Jon Watts From: IN%"IDUNCAN@APS.UoGuelph.CA" 27-APR-1996 09:23:08.16 To: IN%"Applied-Ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Workshop on stereotypies ISAE CONGRESS GUELPH 96 Those of you who are busy completing Registration Forms for the Guelph Congress may like to know that Caroline Hewson is organizing a workshop on stereotypies for the afternoon of Thursday 15th August, which is the same time as the Social Excursion to Niagara. So, if the Social Excursion does not appeal to you, there will be an alternative. The workshop is open to everyone and details can be obtained from Caroline . I should perhaps explain that Caroline is working on compulsive obsessive disorders in dogs with Andrew Luescher. However, I understand that the workshop will cover many different aspects of stereotypy in companion, farm, lab, and zoo animals. Yours sincerely, Ian J.H. Duncan From: IN%"kimster@UDel.Edu" "Kimberly Neufeld" 27-APR-1996 17:22:27.08 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Summer job/internship I was wondering if anyone knows of a summer job or internship in the area of animal behavior or anything else to do with animals in New Jersey. I am an animal science major at the University of Delaware. I will be available from May 27-August 9. You can email directly or through Applied-ethology. I would appreciate any help I can get. Thank you. Kim Neufeld kimster@udel.edu From: IN%"ujhhtpo@ucl.ac.uk" "ujhhtpo" 29-APR-1996 05:46:37.82 To: IN%"vcpsy00h@huey.csun.edu", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"wudcm.wustl.edu@ucl.ac.uk", IN%"devold@badlands.nodak.edu", IN%"fjdein@facstaff.wisc.edu" CC: Subj: Contents of Animal Welfare journal May 96 Animal Welfare ISSN 0962-7286 Volume 5 Number 2 May 1996 CONTENTS EDITORIAL 103 ARTICLES Is broiler breeder welfare improved by using qualitative rather than 105 quantitative food restriction to limit growth rate? C J Savory, P M Hocking, J S Mann and M H Maxwell The effects of different types of feeding enhancements on the behaviour 129 of single-caged, yearling rhesus macaques S J Schapiro, S A Suarez, L M Porter and M A Bloomsmith On comparing the behaviour of zoo housed animals with wild conspecifics 139 as a welfare indicator, using the giraffe (Giraffa camelopardalis) as a model J S Veasey, N K Waran and R J Young Behaviour of silver foxes in traditional breeding boxes and in boxes with 155 an entrance tunnel B O Braastad Effect of group housing and oral corticosterone administration on weight 167 gain and locomotor development in neonatal rats L A Young, G Pavlovska-Teglia, G Stodulski and J Hau Contrasts in diet amongst Barbary macaques on Gibraltar: human influences 177 H O'Leary Behavioural time-budgets and beak related behaviour in floor-housed turkeys 189 B O Hughes and P N Grigor REPORTS AND COMMENTS 199 Environmental enrichment Australian native mammals The badger Ferret keeping Broiler welfare Overpopulation of dogs and cats Ferrets and ferreting Whales vs whalers BOOK AND VIDEO REVIEWS 205 Perspectives on Xenotransplantation Touching Horses: Communication, Health and Healing Through Shiatsu Cats in Shelters: Humane Care and Handling Animals and Science in the Twenty-first Century: New Technologies and Challenges Managing Vertebrate Pests: Foxes The Horse Shoeing Book: A Pictorial Guide for Horse Owners and Students Managing Vertebrate Pests: Rabbits  BOOKS AND VIDEOS RECEIVED 216 LETTER Natural behaviour is simply a question of survival 218 Published by Universities Federation for Animal Welfare 8 Hamilton Close, South Mimms, Potters Bar, Herts EN6 3QD, UK Tel: 01707 658202 Fax: 01707 649279 Animal Welfare (ISSN 0962-7286) brings together the results of scientific research and technical studies related to the welfare of animals kept on farms, in laboratories, as companions, in zoos or managed in the wild. Subscription rates: Individuals u50/US$100; Corporate/Institutes/Libraries u70/US$140 per year. Orders: Can be made direct to UFAW and are accepted by Volume, which consists of four issues per year. Papers: Comprehensive instructions for authors are available on request. Manuscripts should be submitted preferably to the appropriate Section Editor or to the Editor-in-Chief. Animal Welfare is abstracted in CAB Abstracts; Current Primate References; Focus on: Veterinary Science & Medicine; The InterActions Bibliography; Research Alert; Sociological Abstracts; Toxicology Abstracts; Veterinary Update; and is indexed in Zoological Record. PLEASE CIRCULATE TO OTHERS WHO MAY BE INTERESTED - THANKS! Posted by Vicky Taylor, UFAW. From: IN%"JANETB@ADSA.ORG" "Janet Brown" 30-APR-1996 15:34:53.25 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Animal Cognition Symposium There is an Assessing Animal Cognition Symposium at the American Society of Animal Science meeting, July 23-26 in Rapid City, South Dakota. Please plan to attend this exciting symposium that includes the following: Assessing Animal Cognition The Environment & Animal Behavior Committee is sponsoring this symposium. The issue of animal cognition is central to the animal welfare debate. Granting agencies are specifically requesting proposals for studies on the cognition of agricultural species. Although philosophers and cognitive ethologists have developed a literature on the subject, most researchers in animal agriculture have had little exposure to the subject. Assessing animal cognition: Philosophical and ethological perspectives, Colin Allen, Texas A&M University Assessing animal cognition: Agricultural perspectives, Jan Ladewig, Royal Veterinary and Agriculture University, Denmark Please promote this on the applied ethology list server. Thank you. Janet Brown American Society of Animal Science Internet address: http://www.asas.org Janet Brown PSA 1111 North Dunlap Avenue Savoy, IL 61874 phone 217/356-3182 fax 217/398-4119 e-mail janetb@adsa.org From: IN%"D.B.MORTON@bham.ac.uk" 1-MAY-1996 01:52:11.09 To: IN%"APPLIED-ETHOLOGY@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Crocodiles,kangaroos,wild boar,emu (other exotics?) Dear All, I am interested in the farming and/or capture and 'processing' of these species (crocodiles, kangaroos, wild boar, emu) and any welfare problems that have been highlighted. Their meat is exported from Australia, I believe, and no doubt other countries. If you have information or references or leaflets etc I should be most grateful if you would draw my attention to where I could get copies or go to the source. Thanks David M. Prof.David.B.Morton | Janet: D.B.Morton@uk.ac.bham Biomedical Science and Ethics | Internet: D.B.Morton@bham.ac.uk The Medical School | University of Birmingham | Birmingham | Tel: +44 - (0)121 414 3616 B15 2TT, UK Fax: +44 - (0)121 414 6979