From: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com" 1-DEC-2004 19:47:48.12 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs I heard an obscure report (I think it was on dateline NBC) about a pig farmer that had started treating human psychiatric patients with the same set of nutritional supplements that he had used for pigs in feedlots. He said that the there were a set of nutrients that were commonly used by pig farmers when their pigs were acting irritable, aggressive, hyper or had lost their appetites. He made it sound like they were a fairly common set of nutrients, but didn't give the specifics. I was wondering if any of you might know what these nutrients were and how widely they are used in pig farming and other aspects of animal husbandry. If these substances work in both pigs and humans, might they not benefit other mammals as well? There seem to be a hell of a lot of neurotic dogs and some neurotic cats out there. My background is neuroscience so I do have some guesses as to what these substances might be. There are certainly plenty of psychoactive nutrients out there, but if pig farmers have already worked out a good balance and combination of nutrients, it would be good to know what they have discovered. From: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com" 1-DEC-2004 20:03:14.48 To: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: found it - Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs It turns out that he list of ingrediants has been published since the last time I looked, You can find it here if you are interested in it. It actually has several ingrediants that I suspected but several that i did not. Overall it looks to be at worst a pretty harmless multrivitamin though som eof the ingrediants are somewhat unusual. _http://www.truehope.com/_empowerplus/empPowderIngredients.asp_ (http://www.truehope.com/_empowerplus/empPowderIngredients.asp) From: IN%"Carol.Petherick@dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol" 1-DEC-2004 20:24:00.54 To: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs I've heard tell that magnesium is used to calm toey horses and aggressive bulls. Apparently it is also used in humans to treat PMS and other anxiety disorders. I think, however, that such practices and your suggestion(?) raise some serious ethical issues - I'd have thought that we should be working to prevent such conditions occurring rather than merely treating symptoms. Is it appropriate to house and husband animals in such ways that lead to anxiety/stress disorders and then simply medicate the animals to make them more amenable to us? I think not. Carol Carol Petherick Principal Scientist (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Department of Primary Industries & Fisheries Telephone +61 (0)7 4936 0331; Fax +61 (0)7 4936 0390 Email carol.petherick@dpi.qld.gov.au -----Original Message----- From: Michalchik@aol.com [mailto:Michalchik@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, 2 December 2004 11:47 AM To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca Subject: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs I heard an obscure report (I think it was on dateline NBC) about a pig farmer that had started treating human psychiatric patients with the same set of nutritional supplements that he had used for pigs in feedlots. He said that the there were a set of nutrients that were commonly used by pig farmers when their pigs were acting irritable, aggressive, hyper or had lost their appetites. He made it sound like they were a fairly common set of nutrients, but didn't give the specifics. I was wondering if any of you might know what these nutrients were and how widely they are used in pig farming and other aspects of animal husbandry. If these substances work in both pigs and humans, might they not benefit other mammals as well? There seem to be a hell of a lot of neurotic dogs and some neurotic cats out there. My background is neuroscience so I do have some guesses as to what these substances might be. There are certainly plenty of psychoactive nutrients out there, but if pig farmers have already worked out a good balance and combination of nutrients, it would be good to know what they have discovered. ********************************DISCLAIMER**************************** The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions contained in the message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Queensland Government and its authorities. If you received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your computer system network. From: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com" 1-DEC-2004 20:49:18.79 To: IN%"Carol.Petherick@dpi.qld.gov.au", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs I think we probably agree more than disagree on this subject, but for me =20 this all boils down to what are the most expedient ways to alleviate the =20 distress of humans and animals. All environments are stressful to some degre= e and=20 indeed too low a stress level (albeit a rare condition) can have adverse =20 effects on the psychological health of a living creature. Given that psychol= ogy is=20 ultimately dependent on biochemistry, I think it is wise to use optimum =20 nutrition to bolster the psychological health of an animal to whatever degre= e is =20 reasonable in practice. Even in ideal environments, nutritional deficiencies= =20 can have severe adverse consequences on the well-being of living creatures.= =20 Similarly, there are just some animals that are badly put together, (most of= ten =20 due to bad breeding practices but also due to normal organismal variation),=20 that require extraordinary interventions to maintain even minimal qualities= of=20 life.=20 =20 Assuming that this nutritional supplement actually does what it claims, thi= s=20 seems like a relatively safe and inexpensive way to increase the quality of= =20 life for a variety of animals. Does this mean that we should stop looking=20 for other ways to improve human and animal life? Of course not! I doubt any= one=20 would advocate that position, though I admit that tranquil animals in feed=20 lots might lead to some apathy in that regard. =20 =20 This all raises another interesting ethical questions, but considering the =20 firestorms that have raged through this place and the way they have distract= ed =20 us from questions of ethology, I will forebear from raising it unless people= =20 really want me to. Let me know. =20 Michael Michalchik=20 =20 I=E2=80=99ve heard tell that magnesium is used to calm toey horses and aggr= essive =20 bulls. Apparently it is also used in humans to treat PMS and other anxiety= =20 disorders.=20 I think, however, that such practices and your suggestion(?) raise some=20 serious ethical issues =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99d have thought that we should be= working to prevent=20 such conditions occurring rather than merely treating symptoms. Is it=20 appropriate to house and husband animals in such ways that lead to anxiety/= stress=20 disorders and then simply medicate the animals to make them more amenable t= o=20 us? I think not.=20 Carol=20 Carol Petherick=20 Principal Scientist (Animal Behaviour and Welfare)=20 Department of Primary Industries & Fisheries=20 Telephone +61 (0)7 4936 0331; Fax +61 (0)7 4936 0390=20 Email carol.petherick@dpi.qld.gov.au From: IN%"clare@amerion.com" "Clare Lewandowski" 1-DEC-2004 21:06:38.37 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs If the stress or anxiety is due to a magnesium deficiency, all the management change possible will not rectify the problem. While your driving habits affect the way your vehicle performs, you must keep the oil, brake, steering and radiator fluids topped off as well as keeping gas in the tank. Magnesium is a nutrient, not a medication. Over supplementation will not act as a drug. It may create imbalances in calcium and phosphorous or other nutrients. The amount of protein in the diet may alter the need for magnesium up or down. As with all dietary factors, balance and need vary considerably from one individual to another. Many mammals including humans can tell by smell or taste when a food or supplement is good for the body. Chocolate is high in magnesium which is why many stressed humans who are excreting or metabolizing a high amount of it will crave it. Magnesium can be calming because like B6 and zinc, it is part of neurochemicals such as serotonin. In humans, alcohol consumption can deplete it leading to anxiety or anger. regards Clare ----- Original Message ----- From: Petherick, Carol To: Michalchik@aol.com ; applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 6:01 PM Subject: RE: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs I've heard tell that magnesium is used to calm toey horses and aggressive bulls. Apparently it is also used in humans to treat PMS and other anxiety disorders. I think, however, that such practices and your suggestion(?) raise some serious ethical issues - I'd have thought that we should be working to prevent such conditions occurring rather than merely treating symptoms. Is it appropriate to house and husband animals in such ways that lead to anxiety/stress disorders and then simply medicate the animals to make them more amenable to us? I think not. Carol Carol Petherick Principal Scientist (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Department of Primary Industries & Fisheries Telephone +61 (0)7 4936 0331; Fax +61 (0)7 4936 0390 Email carol.petherick@dpi.qld.gov.au -----Original Message----- From: Michalchik@aol.com [mailto:Michalchik@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, 2 December 2004 11:47 AM To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca Subject: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs I heard an obscure report (I think it was on dateline NBC) about a pig farmer that had started treating human psychiatric patients with the same set of nutritional supplements that he had used for pigs in feedlots. He said that the there were a set of nutrients that were commonly used by pig farmers when their pigs were acting irritable, aggressive, hyper or had lost their appetites. He made it sound like they were a fairly common set of nutrients, but didn't give the specifics. I was wondering if any of you might know what these nutrients were and how widely they are used in pig farming and other aspects of animal husbandry. If these substances work in both pigs and humans, might they not benefit other mammals as well? There seem to be a hell of a lot of neurotic dogs and some neurotic cats out there. My background is neuroscience so I do have some guesses as to what these substances might be. There are certainly plenty of psychoactive nutrients out there, but if pig farmers have already worked out a good balance and combination of nutrients, it would be good to know what they have discovered. ********************************DISCLAIMER**************************** The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions contained in the message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Queensland Government and its authorities. If you received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your computer system network. From: IN%"Carol.Petherick@dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol" 1-DEC-2004 21:17:39.77 To: IN%"clare@amerion.com" "Clare Lewandowski", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs Clare You evidently know more about this than I do, but from my limited reading and knowledge on this topic, the problems are not due to magnesium deficiencies, but are treated with relatively high levels of magnesium. From what I've read, animals treated with magnesium for anxiety-type disorders have been on a so-called balanced diet. In the case of bulls, they are 'dosed' with magnesium before they are sold, so they appear to be quiet, docile, tame animals. The new owners quickly discover that they have purchased something quite different to that! Carol Carol Petherick Principal Scientist (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Department of Primary Industries & Fisheries Telephone +61 (0)7 4936 0331; Fax +61 (0)7 4936 0390 Email carol.petherick@dpi.qld.gov.au -----Original Message----- From: Clare Lewandowski [mailto:clare@amerion.com] Sent: Thursday, 2 December 2004 1:05 PM To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca Subject: Re: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs If the stress or anxiety is due to a magnesium deficiency, all the management change possible will not rectify the problem. While your driving habits affect the way your vehicle performs, you must keep the oil, brake, steering and radiator fluids topped off as well as keeping gas in the tank. Magnesium is a nutrient, not a medication. Over supplementation will not act as a drug. It may create imbalances in calcium and phosphorous or other nutrients. The amount of protein in the diet may alter the need for magnesium up or down. As with all dietary factors, balance and need vary considerably from one individual to another. Many mammals including humans can tell by smell or taste when a food or supplement is good for the body. Chocolate is high in magnesium which is why many stressed humans who are excreting or metabolizing a high amount of it will crave it. Magnesium can be calming because like B6 and zinc, it is part of neurochemicals such as serotonin. In humans, alcohol consumption can deplete it leading to anxiety or anger. regards Clare ----- Original Message ----- From: Petherick, Carol To: Michalchik@aol.com ; applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 6:01 PM Subject: RE: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs I've heard tell that magnesium is used to calm toey horses and aggressive bulls. Apparently it is also used in humans to treat PMS and other anxiety disorders. I think, however, that such practices and your suggestion(?) raise some serious ethical issues - I'd have thought that we should be working to prevent such conditions occurring rather than merely treating symptoms. Is it appropriate to house and husband animals in such ways that lead to anxiety/stress disorders and then simply medicate the animals to make them more amenable to us? I think not. Carol Carol Petherick Principal Scientist (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Department of Primary Industries & Fisheries Telephone +61 (0)7 4936 0331; Fax +61 (0)7 4936 0390 Email carol.petherick@dpi.qld.gov.au -----Original Message----- From: Michalchik@aol.com [mailto:Michalchik@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, 2 December 2004 11:47 AM To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca Subject: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs I heard an obscure report (I think it was on dateline NBC) about a pig farmer that had started treating human psychiatric patients with the same set of nutritional supplements that he had used for pigs in feedlots. He said that the there were a set of nutrients that were commonly used by pig farmers when their pigs were acting irritable, aggressive, hyper or had lost their appetites. He made it sound like they were a fairly common set of nutrients, but didn't give the specifics. I was wondering if any of you might know what these nutrients were and how widely they are used in pig farming and other aspects of animal husbandry. If these substances work in both pigs and humans, might they not benefit other mammals as well? There seem to be a hell of a lot of neurotic dogs and some neurotic cats out there. My background is neuroscience so I do have some guesses as to what these substances might be. There are certainly plenty of psychoactive nutrients out there, but if pig farmers have already worked out a good balance and combination of nutrients, it would be good to know what they have discovered. ********************************DISCLAIMER**************************** The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions contained in the message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Queensland Government and its authorities. If you received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your computer system network. From: IN%"ewj@uiuc.edu" "E. Wayne Johnson" 1-DEC-2004 21:39:45.34 To: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com", IN%"Michalchik@aol.com", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: found it - Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs The supplement listed at the web site contains molybdenum, vanadium and boron which animals may require in small amounts but which are not presently approved or permitted for addition in their inorganic chemical forms to animal feeds in the US. At 08:02 PM 12/1/2004, Michalchik@aol.com wrote: >It turns out that he list of ingrediants has been published since the last >time I looked, You can find it here if you are interested in it. It >actually has several ingrediants that I suspected but several that i did >not. Overall it looks to be at worst a pretty harmless multrivitamin >though som eof the ingrediants are somewhat unusual. > >http://www.truehope.com/_empowerplus/empPowderIngredients.asp > E. Wayne Johnson DVM 302 Animal Sciences Laboratory 1207 West Gregory Drive Urbana, Illinois 61801 217 778 9961 mobile 217 367 8252 home 217 333 8286 fax From: IN%"clare@amerion.com" "Clare Lewandowski" 1-DEC-2004 21:49:32.42 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs Balanced diet for what animal? under what breeding, exercise and stress = factors? and what genetic factors? a web search for pyroluria will turn = up a large amount of information on how a genetic component will lock = out magnesium and other nutrients. The pyroles produced in this genetic = metabolic process are not in and of themselves harmful, but can lock out = the nutrients needed by the body for other processes. A diesel truck and = a race car both need balanced fuel/air ratios but what is balanced for = each is very different. A bull with proper magnesium is probably quiet = and docile and one deficient may be a raging bull indeed. A full = disclosure statement would simply indicate this bull needs high = magnesium. Just as many Dalmatians need a specific diet with low purines = in the protein content to prevent kidney stones. One size fits all diets = seldom fit anyone, human or non human very well. Along with just about = every other factor in management such as type and amount of exercise or = enrichment. The amount and type of stimulation for one individual could = be boredom or overload for another. Dopamine, serotonin and noradrenalin = levels are all affected by these factors. Heavy metals such as mercury = in the body can lock out tyrosine and noradrenalin. So many factors = affect brain chemistry. Excess cortisol will lock out thyroid hormones = as well as receptors for hormones and neurochemicals.=20 Dietary needs can change rapidly. A diabetic is an extreme example. Clare ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Petherick, Carol=20 To: Clare Lewandowski ; applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 7:17 PM Subject: RE: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs Clare You evidently know more about this than I do, but from my limited = reading and knowledge on this topic, the problems are not due to = magnesium deficiencies, but are treated with relatively high levels of = magnesium. From what I've read, animals treated with magnesium for = anxiety-type disorders have been on a so-called balanced diet. In the = case of bulls, they are 'dosed' with magnesium before they are sold, so = they appear to be quiet, docile, tame animals. The new owners quickly = discover that they have purchased something quite different to that! =20 Carol =20 Carol Petherick Principal Scientist (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Department of Primary Industries & Fisheries =20 Telephone +61 (0)7 4936 0331; Fax +61 (0)7 4936 0390 Email carol.petherick@dpi.qld.gov.au =20 -----Original Message----- From: Clare Lewandowski [mailto:clare@amerion.com] Sent: Thursday, 2 December 2004 1:05 PM To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca Subject: Re: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs =20 If the stress or anxiety is due to a magnesium deficiency, all the = management change possible will not rectify the problem. While your = driving habits affect the way your vehicle performs, you must keep the = oil, brake, steering and radiator fluids topped off as well as keeping = gas in the tank.=20 Magnesium is a nutrient, not a medication. Over supplementation will = not act as a drug. It may create imbalances in calcium and phosphorous = or other nutrients. The amount of protein in the diet may alter the need = for magnesium up or down. As with all dietary factors, balance and need = vary considerably from one individual to another. Many mammals including = humans can tell by smell or taste when a food or supplement is good for = the body. Chocolate is high in magnesium which is why many stressed = humans who are excreting or metabolizing a high amount of it will crave = it.=20 Magnesium can be calming because like B6 and zinc, it is part of = neurochemicals such as serotonin. In humans, alcohol consumption can = deplete it leading to anxiety or anger. regards Clare ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Petherick, Carol=20 To: Michalchik@aol.com ; applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 6:01 PM Subject: RE: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs =20 I've heard tell that magnesium is used to calm toey horses and = aggressive bulls. Apparently it is also used in humans to treat PMS and = other anxiety disorders. I think, however, that such practices and your suggestion(?) raise = some serious ethical issues - I'd have thought that we should be working = to prevent such conditions occurring rather than merely treating = symptoms. Is it appropriate to house and husband animals in such ways = that lead to anxiety/stress disorders and then simply medicate the = animals to make them more amenable to us? I think not. Carol Carol Petherick Principal Scientist (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Department of Primary Industries & Fisheries Telephone +61 (0)7 4936 0331; Fax +61 (0)7 4936 0390 Email carol.petherick@dpi.qld.gov.au =20 -----Original Message----- From: Michalchik@aol.com [mailto:Michalchik@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, 2 December 2004 11:47 AM To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca Subject: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs I heard an obscure report (I think it was on dateline NBC) about a pig = farmer that had started treating human psychiatric patients with the = same set of nutritional supplements that he had used for pigs in = feedlots. He said that the there were a set of nutrients that were = commonly used by pig farmers when their pigs were acting irritable, = aggressive, hyper or had lost their appetites. He made it sound like = they were a fairly common set of nutrients, but didn't give the = specifics. =20 I was wondering if any of you might know what these nutrients were and = how widely they are used in pig farming and other aspects of animal = husbandry. If these substances work in both pigs and humans, might they = not benefit other mammals as well? There seem to be a hell of a lot of = neurotic dogs and some neurotic cats out there. My background is neuroscience so I do have some guesses as to what = these substances might be. There are certainly plenty of psychoactive = nutrients out there, but if pig farmers have already worked out a good = balance and combination of nutrients, it would be good to know what they = have discovered. ********************************DISCLAIMER****************************The= information contained in the above e-mail message or messages (which = includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. = It is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is = addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of disclosure, = copying, modification, distribution or any action taken or omitted in = reliance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions contained in the = message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Queensland = Government and its authorities. If you received this communication in = error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your = computer system network.= From: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com" 1-DEC-2004 22:43:30.71 To: IN%"ewj@uiuc.edu", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: found it - Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs In a message dated 12/1/2004 7:40:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, ewj@uiuc.edu writes: The supplement listed at the web site contains molybdenum, vanadium and boron which animals may require in small amounts but which are not presently approved or permitted for addition in their inorganic chemical forms to animal feeds in the US. Interesting! Do farmers routinely use unapproved additives for animal feed, or do you think this guy just does things differently? I know for a fact that molybdenum, boron, and vanadium are all available in OTC supplments intended for human consumption. But you can pretty much put anything in a nutritional supplement now-a-days so long as it is present in food and not specifically proscribed. From: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com" 1-DEC-2004 22:52:17.72 To: IN%"clare@amerion.com", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs In a message dated 12/1/2004 7:52:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, clare@amerion.com writes: A bull with proper magnesium is probably quiet and docile and one deficient may be a raging bull indeed. Well, actually this raises another sticky issue. Healthy actually means different things in different environments. For the most part, domesticated bulls never need to rage and raging is bad for them as well as their keepers. In the wild, a bulls tendency to rage may have been integral to its ability to survive and reproduce successfully. NO trait is inherently good or bad, they all exist within a context. I tend to think that arguments that hold that the the phenotype that is optimal in the wild is somehow better are specious, but I know many would disagree with me. OTOH, I do think wolves are much more aesthetically pleasing than chihuahuas. From: IN%"ewj@uiuc.edu" "E. Wayne Johnson" 1-DEC-2004 22:57:43.59 To: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: found it - Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs I think he could be blowing smoke about some the animal feed part. Nowadays farmers are not very likely to be using unapproved additives in feeds. Supplements for humans are regulated differently from those for food producing animals. If you as a human acting on free will take a "Additive X" supplement you do so voluntarily. If Additive X is fed to an animal and accumulates in its flesh, the animal flesh is in a sense "adulterated" or "mislabeled". If you consume that flesh with the Additive X you do so against your voluntary will as there is an implied guarantee of wholesomeness (freedom from unapproved adulterants such as Additive X) provided by the FDA. At 10:43 PM 12/1/2004, Michalchik@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 12/1/2004 7:40:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, >ewj@uiuc.edu writes: >The supplement listed at the web site contains molybdenum, vanadium and boron >which animals may require in small amounts but >which are not presently approved or permitted >for addition in their inorganic chemical forms to animal feeds in the US. > >Interesting! Do farmers routinely use unapproved additives for animal >feed, or do you think this guy just does things differently? I know for a >fact that molybdenum, boron, and vanadium are all available in OTC >supplments intended for human consumption. But you can pretty much put >anything in a nutritional supplement now-a-days so long as it is present >in food and not specifically proscribed. E. Wayne Johnson DVM 302 Animal Sciences Laboratory 1207 West Gregory Drive Urbana, Illinois 61801 217 778 9961 mobile 217 367 8252 home 217 333 8286 fax From: IN%"clare@amerion.com" "Clare Lewandowski" 1-DEC-2004 23:05:56.52 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs A book called Adrenal fatigue, 21st century syndrome. http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/ I'll also check another book called the Cortisol connection, I believe there are references there also. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michalchik@aol.com To: clare@amerion.com Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 8:53 PM Subject: Re: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs In a message dated 12/1/2004 7:52:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, clare@amerion.com writes: Excess cortisol will lock out thyroid hormones as well as receptors for hormones and neurochemicals. I didn't know about that one. That explains a lot about my physiology. Do you have a reference? From: IN%"simon@gadbois.org" "Simon Gadbois" 2-DEC-2004 11:53:05.92 To: IN%"clare@amerion.com" "Clare Lewandowski" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs I would recommend "Why Zebras don't have ulcers" by the famous Neuroscientist Robert Sapolsky (Stanford). It is an excellent introduction to the physiology and psychology of stress (with a strong focus on the endocrinology, i.e., glucocorticoids). The revised edition is best as it covers the issue of temperament in more details. Simon Gadbois --- Simon Gadbois, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Psychology / Neuroscience Dalhousie University Ethology, behavioural endocrinology & ecotoxicology. Behaviour of wolves, coyotes, red foxes, and teleost fish http://www.gadbois.org/ --- On 2-Dec-04, at 1:03 AM, Clare Lewandowski wrote: > A book called Adrenal fatigue, 21st century syndrome. > http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/ > I'll also check another book called the Cortisol connection, I believe > there are references there also. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michalchik@aol.com > To: clare@amerion.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 8:53 PM > Subject: Re: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs > > > In a message dated 12/1/2004 7:52:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, > clare@amerion.com writes: > Excess cortisol will lock out thyroid hormones as well as receptors > for hormones and neurochemicals. > I didn't know about that one. That explains a lot about my > physiology. Do you have a reference? From: IN%"saluqi@ix.netcom.com" "John Burchard" 7-DEC-2004 09:40:25.17 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied ethology list" CC: Subj: RE: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs Clare Lewandowski wrote: > A book called Adrenal fatigue, 21st century syndrome. http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/ > I'll also check another book called the Cortisol connection, I believe there are references there also. It has become popular in certain canine circles to think that "hypothyroidism" is the root cause of all sorts of obscure ills. Dosing the animals with thyroid supplements does in many cases bring improvement, leading people to think "aha, diagnosis ex juvantibus" and not pursue the matter further. In at least many cases, however, the animals in question are in a state of mild chronic adrenal overstimulation resulting for example in many racing Greyhounds from a slightly too stressful training program, or from other life-situation parameters. Excess cortisol "locking out" thyroid hormone would provide an interesting alternative - and perhaps preferable - explanation for some of these phenomena. The picture is complicated by the fact that many extreme canine athletes have naturally low levels of circulating thyroid hormone, without being in any way hypothyroid. That is a genetic feature independent of stress or exertion - but misunderstanding it has caused many animals to receive unnecessary thyroid supplementation, with not always desirable physiological and metabolic consequences ... So I will be most interested in any further information which may be forthcoming on this topic. John -- Dr. John Burchard Tepe Gawra Salukis http://saluqi.home.netcom.com/ saluqi@ix.netcom.com From: IN%"wheep@slingshot.co.nz" "Andy Beck" 7-DEC-2004 17:38:29.96 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: collars Dear all A forward from the electronic Animal Transportation Association Globalfiles for this week: EDM - ELECTRIC SHOCK TRAINING COLLARS FOR DOGS Early Day Motion Number 78 was introduced in the House of Commons on 23 November by the front-bench agriculture team, namely James Paice MP, Tim Yeo MP, James Gray MP, Owen Paterson MP, Anne McIntosh MP and Robert Key MP reading: "That this House notes the continuing availability and use of remote-control electric-shock collars to train and control dogs; shares the view of the Kennel Club, the Dogs Trust and the RSPCA that these devices are unnecessary and cruel, with considerable potential for abuse; believes that there are alternative training methods which are more effective, as are employed by the police, prison services and armed forces; regrets that the draft Animal Welfare Bill contains no provisions to ban the sale and use of electric-shock training collars; and calls on the Government to include such provisions in the Bill." [PNS - 23 November] Also would like to take the opportunity to wish everyone on the list very warm seasons greetings! Regards Andy Beck White Horse Equine Ethology Project 433 Wharepunga Rd RD3 Kaikohe Northland 0400 Aotearoa - New Zealand 64-9-4011944 http://www.barefootsaddles.co.nz http://www.equine-behavior.com http://www.sports-horses.co.nz http://www.equine-ethology.ac.nz From: IN%"Carol.Petherick@dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol" 7-DEC-2004 17:56:18.13 To: IN%"wheep@slingshot.co.nz" "Andy Beck", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: collars Hi Andy It astounds me that with the controversy surrounding shock collars for dogs that a certain large Commonwealth research organisation here in Australia is testing the use of "electrical stimulation devices" (my words) attached to cattle to control their movements - but maybe it's OK to shock cattle in a way that's unacceptable (as viewed by many) for dogs! Best wishes for the festive season to you and all too. Carol Carol Petherick Principal Scientist (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Department of Primary Industries & Fisheries Telephone +61 (0)7 4936 0331; Fax +61 (0)7 4936 0390 Email carol.petherick@dpi.qld.gov.au -----Original Message----- From: Andy Beck [mailto:wheep@slingshot.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 8 December 2004 9:38 AM To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca Subject: collars Dear all A forward from the electronic Animal Transportation Association Globalfiles for this week: EDM - ELECTRIC SHOCK TRAINING COLLARS FOR DOGS Early Day Motion Number 78 was introduced in the House of Commons on 23 November by the front-bench agriculture team, namely James Paice MP, Tim Yeo MP, James Gray MP, Owen Paterson MP, Anne McIntosh MP and Robert Key MP reading: "That this House notes the continuing availability and use of remote-control electric-shock collars to train and control dogs; shares the view of the Kennel Club, the Dogs Trust and the RSPCA that these devices are unnecessary and cruel, with considerable potential for abuse; believes that there are alternative training methods which are more effective, as are employed by the police, prison services and armed forces; regrets that the draft Animal Welfare Bill contains no provisions to ban the sale and use of electric-shock training collars; and calls on the Government to include such provisions in the Bill." [PNS - 23 November] Also would like to take the opportunity to wish everyone on the list very warm seasons greetings! Regards Andy Beck White Horse Equine Ethology Project 433 Wharepunga Rd RD3 Kaikohe Northland 0400 Aotearoa - New Zealand 64-9-4011944 http://www.barefootsaddles.co.nz http://www.equine-behavior.com http://www.sports-horses.co.nz http://www.equine-ethology.ac.nz ********************************DISCLAIMER**************************** The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions contained in the message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Queensland Government and its authorities. If you received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your computer system network. From: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com" 7-DEC-2004 19:16:37.39 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Scientists finally admit real reason for mouse research I am sure this applied to other species too ;-) =20 _http://theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=3D4049&n=3D1_=20 (http://theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=3D4049&n=3D1)=20 =20 =20 ZURICH, SWITZERLAND=E2=80=94Nearly 700 scientists representing 27 countries= convened=20 at the University of Zurich Monday to formally announce that their=20 experimentation on mice has been motivated not by a desire to advance human= knowledge,=20 but out of sheer distaste for the furry little rodents. Above: White=20 examines detested specimens in his Oxford lab.=20 "As a man of science, I deal with facts, and the fact is that mice are =20 gross," said Dr. Douglas White, chair of the Oxford biogenetics department a= nd =20 lifelong mouse-hater. "They're squirmy, scurrying little vermin, and they ma= ke =20 my skin crawl. I speak for all of my assembled colleagues when I say that th= e =20 horrible little things deserve the worst we can dish out."=20 According to a 500-word statement, scientists hate mice for "their beady =20 little eyes," "their repulsive tails," and "the annoying little squeaking so= unds =20 they make."=20 At the press conference, several scientists detailed their involvement in th= e=20 centuries-long ruse of "conducting experiments" and "curing diseases."=20 "For years, I've used lab mice to research cell breakdown in living tissue= =E2=80=94 and I've been lucky enough to make some pretty important medical advancemen= ts=20 along the way," said researcher Ellen Gresham of the Harvard Institute for=20 Advanced Studies. "But even if there were no scientific benefit to the work= I=20 do, I'd still experiment on mice, just to watch them suffer."=20 "The truth is, mice are particularly ill-suited for our tissue study," =20 Gresham added. "We could construct a computer model that would yield more a= ccurate=20 results, but we don't care."=20 According to Gresham, scientists have enjoyed dissolving mice in acid, =20 spinning them in centrifuges, blowing them up in vacuum chambers, and forcin= g them=20 to navigate exit-free mazes for years=E2=80=94all the while towering above t= hem, =20 laughing.=20 "Every high-pitched squeak from the holding area is a warm reminder that the= =20 mice desperately want to escape," said Dr. Frances Villalobos, a =20 contagious-disease researcher at the University of Mexico. "All they want to= do is get=20 out from behind those bars so they can chew on everything, defecate all ove= r,=20 and poke their filthy twitching faces into piles of garbage. Well, I know o= f=20 at least 80 little test subjects who won't be doing any more of that. They'r= e =20 headed straight for the dissection lab." Above: A University of Miami=20 researcher injects dye into a mouse's eyeball "for the heck of it."=20 Villalobos said he spent six months writing a grant proposal that provided =20 him with funding to inject mice with the smallpox virus.=20 "It kills me that I can't infect the control group," Villalobos said. =20 "Unfortunately, if I infect them, I'll throw off my results. But once I comp= lete =20 this experiment, I'll rotate the control group into the hot seat. Don't you=20= =20 worry. They'll get what's coming to them."=20 After applauding the scientists for coming forward, anthropologist Brent =20 Wrigley suggested that the hatred of mice may be the single most important =20 factor in the evolution of modern science.=20 "Despising mice may have pushed humanity out of the Stone Age," Wrigley said= .=20 "After all, the cave habitats of early man must have been infested with the= =20 horrific little monsters. The entire history of human advancement via the =20 scientific method may be a byproduct of the higher forebrain's natural revul= sion=20 toward the nasty critters."=20 Mouse-killing isn't solely the province of organic and medical scientists. =20 Many other scientists kill mice, as well.=20 "As a physicist, I don't really have much cause to use mice in my regular =20 research, which mostly requires the use of theoretical math," said Dr. Thoma= s =20 Huber, author of the 1996 study Mouse Elasticity And Kinetic Rebound In =20 High-Acceleration Collisions. "But when I have the time, I like to send them= flying=20 into walls. Even just seeing them in a cage makes me feel kind of good =20 inside. I like knowing I'm depriving them of their freedom, even if my resea= rch =20 doesn't provide me the opportunity to cut them open."=20 "I hate those little fuckers," he added.=20 From: IN%"Carol.Petherick@dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol" 7-DEC-2004 19:25:47.82 To: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Scientists finally admit real reason for mouse research Surely this can=E2=80=99t be for real!!?? =20 Carol =20 Carol Petherick Principal Scientist (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Department of Primary Industries & Fisheries =20 Telephone +61 (0)7 4936 0331; Fax +61 (0)7 4936 0390 Email carol.petherick@dpi.qld.gov.au =20 -----Original Message----- From: Michalchik@aol.com [mailto:Michalchik@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, 8 December 2004 11:16 AM To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca Subject: Scientists finally admit real reason for mouse research =20 I am sure this applied to other species too ;-) =20 http://theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=3D4049 &n=3D1 =20 ZURICH, SWITZERLAND=E2=80=94Nearly 700 scientists representing 27 countries= convened at the University of Zurich Monday to formally announce that thei= r experimentation on mice has been motivated not by a desire to advance hum= an knowledge, but out of sheer distaste for the furry little rodents. White examines detested specimens in his Oxford lab. =20 =20 Above: White examines detested specimens in his Oxford lab. "As a man of science, I deal with facts, and the fact is that mice are gros= s," said Dr. Douglas White, chair of the Oxford biogenetics department and = lifelong mouse-hater. "They're squirmy, scurrying little vermin, and they m= ake my skin crawl. I speak for all of my assembled colleagues when I say th= at the horrible little things deserve the worst we can dish out." According to a 500-word statement, scientists hate mice for "their beady li= ttle eyes," "their repulsive tails," and "the annoying little squeaking sou= nds they make." At the press conference, several scientists detailed their involvement in t= he centuries-long ruse of "conducting experiments" and "curing diseases." "For years, I've used lab mice to research cell breakdown in living tissue=E2= =80=94and I've been lucky enough to make some pretty important medical adva= ncements along the way," said researcher Ellen Gresham of the Harvard Insti= tute for Advanced Studies. "But even if there were no scientific benefit to= the work I do, I'd still experiment on mice, just to watch them suffer." "The truth is, mice are particularly ill-suited for our tissue study," Gres= ham added. "We could construct a computer model that would yield more accur= ate results, but we don't care." According to Gresham, scientists have enjoyed dissolving mice in acid, spin= ning them in centrifuges, blowing them up in vacuum chambers, and forcing t= hem to navigate exit-free mazes for years=E2=80=94all the while towering ab= ove them, laughing. "Every high-pitched squeak from the holding area is a warm reminder that th= e mice desperately want to escape," said Dr. Frances Villalobos, a contagio= us-disease researcher at the University of Mexico. "All they want to do is = get out from behind those bars so they can chew on everything, defecate all= over, and poke their filthy twitching faces into piles of garbage. Well, I= know of at least 80 little test subjects who won't be doing any more of th= at. They're headed straight for the dissection lab." A University of Miami researcher injects dye into a mouse's eyeball =20 =20 Above: A University of Miami researcher injects dye into a mouse's eyeball = "for the heck of it." Villalobos said he spent six months writing a grant proposal that provided = him with funding to inject mice with the smallpox virus. "It kills me that I can't infect the control group," Villalobos said. "Unfo= rtunately, if I infect them, I'll throw off my results. But once I complete= this experiment, I'll rotate the control group into the hot seat. Don't yo= u worry. They'll get what's coming to them." After applauding the scientists for coming forward, anthropologist Brent Wr= igley suggested that the hatred of mice may be the single most important fa= ctor in the evolution of modern science. "Despising mice may have pushed humanity out of the Stone Age," Wrigley sai= d. "After all, the cave habitats of early man must have been infested with = the horrific little monsters. The entire history of human advancement via t= he scientific method may be a byproduct of the higher forebrain's natural r= evulsion toward the nasty critters." Mouse-killing isn't solely the province of organic and medical scientists. = Many other scientists kill mice, as well. "As a physicist, I don't really have much cause to use mice in my regular r= esearch, which mostly requires the use of theoretical math," said Dr. Thoma= s Huber, author of the 1996 study Mouse Elasticity And Kinetic Rebound In H= igh-Acceleration Collisions. "But when I have the time, I like to send them= flying into walls. Even just seeing them in a cage makes me feel kind of g= ood inside. I like knowing I'm depriving them of their freedom, even if my = research doesn't provide me the opportunity to cut them open." "I hate those little fuckers," he added.=20 ********************************DISCLAIMER**************************** The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages=20 (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally=20 privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity=20 to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of=20 disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken=20 or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions=20 contained in the message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions=20 of the Queensland Government and its authorities. If you received=20 this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and=20 delete it from your computer system network.=20 From: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com" 7-DEC-2004 19:34:36.27 To: IN%"Carol.Petherick@dpi.qld.gov.au", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Scientists finally admit real reason for mouse research Yes, it is joke. It is the onion which does parodies of news stories. Sorry, I shouldn't have presumed that everyone knew that. They are often very funny, but still address provocative issues. I found this funny, especially in light of the malevolence that is ascribed to animal researchers. I hoped a little humor injected into the destructively self-serious tomne of this group. might do a little good. From: IN%"F.L.Burton@udcf.gla.ac.uk" "Francis Burton" 8-DEC-2004 07:41:42.39 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: OT: HTML/digest format (was RE: Scientists finally admit real reason for mouse research) Apologies in advance for this off-topic post, but can anyone tell me if a) the digest format strips html out of postings (converts to plain text), or b) whether there is a option on the list server to do this for each individual email on a per user basis? As the quote below demonstrates, I have problems reading posts on this list because they are sent through to me in this highly encoded format. For some reason, the problem is vastly worse with this list than others to which I subscribe. It would be greatly appreciated if any replies could be sent directly to me at F.L.Burton@bio.gla.ac.uk and not to this list. Thanks! Francis At 11:24 08/12/04 +1000, "Petherick, Carol" = wrote:=20 >>>> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:*= {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} = 0 DocumentEmail bottomMargin=3D7 leftmargin=3D7 topmargin=3D7= rightMargin=3D7>=20 id=3D"role_document"> font-family:Arial'>Surely this can=E2=80=99t be for= real!!??=20 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> =20 12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail Signature" size=3D4= color=3Dnavy face=3D"Monotype Corsiva">= mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Monotype= Corsiva";mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;color:navy;font-style:italic'>Carol= color=3Dnavy face=3D"Monotype Corsiva"> 12.0pt;font-family:"Monotype= Corsiva";mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy;= mso-color-alt:windowtext;font-style:italic'>=20 style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Aria= l; color:navy;font-weight:bold'> size=3D1 color=3Dnavy>= mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext;font-weight:= bold'>=20 style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Aria= l; color:navy;font-weight:bold'>Carol Petherick color=3Dnavy>= Arial;color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext;font-weight:bold'>=20 style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Aria= l; color:navy'>Principal Scientist (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) size=3D1= color=3Dnavy>= mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext;font-weight:= bold'>=20 style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Aria= l; color:navy'>Department of Primary Industries & Fisheries= style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Ari= al; color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>=20 style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Aria= l; color:navy'> size=3D1 color=3Dnavy>= mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>=20 style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Aria= l; color:navy;font-weight:bold'>Telephone color=3Dnavy> Arial;color:navy'>= +61 (0)7 4936 0331; Fax +61 (0)7 4936 0390= 9.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy;= mso-color-alt:windowtext'>=20 style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Aria= l; color:navy;font-weight:bold'>Email= style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Ari= al; color:navy'> carol.petherick@dpi.qld.gov.au color=3Dnavy>= Arial;color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>=20 12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> class=3DEmailStyle18>= 10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> =20 face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message----- From: Michalchik@aol.com [mailto:Michalchik@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, 8 December 2004 11:16 AM To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca Subject: Scientists finally admit real reason for mouse research=20 face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"> =20 face=3DArial>I am sure this applied to other species too ;-)=20 face=3DArial> =20 face=3DArial>= href=3D"http://theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=3D4049&n=3D1">http://theon= ion.com/news/index.php?issue=3D4049&n=3D1=20 face=3DArial> =20 face=3DArial>ZURICH, SWITZERLAND=E2=80=94Nearly 700 scientists representing= 27 countries convened at the University of Zurich Monday to formally= announce that their experimentation on mice has been motivated not by a= desire to advance human knowledge, but out of sheer distaste for the furry= little rodents. = style=3D'width:237.8pt;mso-cellspacing:.7pt;margin-left:36.0pt;mso-table-an= chor-vertical: = paragraph;mso-table-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-table-left:left;mso-paddin= g-alt: 0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'> =20 face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"> border=3D0 width=3D300 height=3D187= id=3D"_x0000_i1025" src=3D"http://theonion.com/images/413/article3036.jpg= " alt=3D"White examines detested specimens in his Oxford lab."= class=3DimgBorder> color=3Dblack> =20 face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"> border=3D0 width=3D10 height=3D1= id=3D"_x0000_i1026" = src=3D"http://graphics.theonion.com/global_pics/blank.gif" alt=3D" "> = color=3Dblack> =20 face=3D"Arial Unicode MS">Above: White examines detested specimens in= his Oxford lab. color=3Dblack> =20 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>"As a man of= science, I deal with facts, and the fact is that mice are gross," said Dr.= Douglas White, chair of the Oxford biogenetics department and lifelong= mouse-hater. "They're squirmy, scurrying little vermin, and they make my= skin crawl. I speak for all of my assembled colleagues when I say that the= horrible little things deserve the worst we can dish out."=20 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>According to a= 500-word statement, scientists hate mice for "their beady little eyes,"= "their repulsive tails," and "the annoying little squeaking sounds they= make."=20 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>At the press= conference, several scientists detailed their involvement in the= centuries-long ruse of "conducting experiments" and "curing diseases."=20 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>"For years, I've= used lab mice to research cell breakdown in living tissue=E2=80=94and I've= been lucky enough to make some pretty important medical advancements along= the way," said researcher Ellen Gresham of the Harvard Institute for= Advanced Studies. "But even if there were no scientific benefit to the work= I do, I'd still experiment on mice, just to watch them suffer."=20 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>"The truth is, mice= are particularly ill-suited for our tissue study," Gresham added. "We could= construct a computer model that would yield more accurate results, but we= don't care."=20 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>According to= Gresham, scientists have enjoyed dissolving mice in acid, spinning them in= centrifuges, blowing them up in vacuum chambers, and forcing them to= navigate exit-free mazes for years=E2=80=94all the while towering above= them, laughing.=20 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>"Every high-pitched= squeak from the holding area is a warm reminder that the mice desperately= want to escape," said Dr. Frances Villalobos, a contagious-disease= researcher at the University of Mexico. "All they want to do is get out= from behind those bars so they can chew on everything, defecate all over,= and poke their filthy twitching faces into piles of garbage. Well, I know= of at least 80 little test subjects who won't be doing any more of that.= They're headed straight for the dissection lab." = style=3D'width:275.15pt;mso-cellspacing:.7pt;margin-left:36.0pt;mso-table-a= nchor-vertical: = paragraph;mso-table-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-table-left:left;mso-paddin= g-alt: 0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm'> =20 face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"> border=3D0 width=3D350 height=3D254= id=3D"_x0000_i1027" src=3D"http://theonion.com/images/413/article3037.jpg= " alt=3D"A University of Miami researcher injects dye into a mouse's= eyeball " class=3DimgBorder for the heck of it.??> = style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'> =20 face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"> border=3D0 width=3D10 height=3D1= id=3D"_x0000_i1028" = src=3D"http://graphics.theonion.com/global_pics/blank.gif" alt=3D" "> = color=3Dblack> =20 face=3D"Arial Unicode MS">Above: A University of Miami researcher= injects dye into a mouse's eyeball "for the heck of it." = mso-color-alt:windowtext'> =20 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Villalobos said he= spent six months writing a grant proposal that provided him with funding to= inject mice with the smallpox virus.=20 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>"It kills me that I= can't infect the control group," Villalobos said. "Unfortunately, if I= infect them, I'll throw off my results. But once I complete this= experiment, I'll rotate the control group into the hot seat. Don't you= worry. They'll get what's coming to them."=20 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>After applauding= the scientists for coming forward, anthropologist Brent Wrigley suggested= that the hatred of mice may be the single most important factor in the= evolution of modern science.=20 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>"Despising mice may= have pushed humanity out of the Stone Age," Wrigley said. "After all, the= cave habitats of early man must have been infested with the horrific little= monsters. The entire history of human advancement via the scientific method= may be a byproduct of the higher forebrain's natural revulsion toward the= nasty critters."=20 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Mouse-killing isn't= solely the province of organic and medical scientists. Many other= scientists kill mice, as well.=20 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>"As a physicist, I= don't really have much cause to use mice in my regular research, which= mostly requires the use of theoretical math," said Dr. Thomas Huber, author= of the 1996 study Mouse Elasticity And Kinetic Rebound In High-Acceleration= Collisions. "But when I have the time, I like to send them flying into= walls. Even just seeing them in a cage makes me feel kind of good inside. I= like knowing I'm depriving them of their freedom, even if my research= doesn't provide me the opportunity to cut them open."=20 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>"I hate those= little fuckers," he added. = ********************************DISCLAIMER**************************** The= information contained in the above e-mail message or messages (which= includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. = It is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is= addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of disclosure, copying,= modification, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance on= the information is unauthorised. Opinions contained in the message(s) do= not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Queensland Government and its= authorities. If you received this communication in error, please notify= the sender immediately and delete it from your computer system network.=20 From: IN%"coape@nildram.co.uk" "Robin Walker" 8-DEC-2004 14:22:54.34 To: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com", IN%"Carol.Petherick@dpi.qld.gov.au", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Scientists finally admit real reason for mouse research Not funny, Michael. But try again if you must. =20 Your most successful running gag was embodied in your early posts to this list. The peculiar choice of print style and size plus the curiously na=EFve or banal questions that you posed had me convinced = that some precocious child had gained access to his parents computer without their knowledge. =20 Then the posts did become more adult. =20 Now I must ask just once, do your Mummy and Daddy know that you use their computer in this way? =20 Robin Walker =20 -----Original Message----- From: Michalchik@aol.com [mailto:Michalchik@aol.com]=20 Sent: 08 December 2004 01:34 To: Carol.Petherick@dpi.qld.gov.au; applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Subject: Re: Scientists finally admit real reason for mouse research =20 Yes, it is joke. It is the onion which does parodies of news stories. Sorry, I shouldn't have presumed that everyone knew that. They are often very funny, but still address provocative issues. I found this funny, especially in light of the malevolence that is ascribed to animal researchers. I hoped a little humor injected into the destructively self-serious tomne of this group. might do a little good. From: IN%"clare@amerion.com" "Clare Lewandowski" 8-DEC-2004 15:39:35.78 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/shamesadrenal.htm this article has a brief mention of adrenal hormones influencing cellular uptake of thyroid hormones and also conversion of T4 to T3. http://www.chiro.org/nutrition/ABSTRACTS/St_Johns_Wort_Clinical_Effects.shtml this article mentions excess cortisol changing tryptophan's pathway to producing serotonin plus reducing the sensitivity of serotonin receptors. http://www.thedoctorwillseeyounow.com/articles/behavior/depressn_5/index.shtml interactions of stress on brain chemistry the original information on the formula for hogs contained if I recall correctly, I deleted the post for the link, methionine and phenylalanine. http://www.1-clinical-depression.com/sam-e.html this link references a type of methionine--sAME used for depression and arthritis but mentions that pure DL or L methionine is not as effective. However, the site is promoting the sale of a product. http://www.truehope.com/_research/Methionine.asp this site has a reference at the bottom of the DL form having a greater effect than the L form in humans. DL methionine is available for horses in a pure and very inexpensive form to promote good hoof development. http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-089.shtml effects of phenylalanine and tyrosine A number of supplements and herbs are effective in lowering cortisol levels. From "the Cortisol Connection" page 143, these were listed as directly controlling cortisol levels. magnolia bark, theainine, epimedium, phytosterols, phosphatidylserine, tyrosine and branched chain amino acids. regards Clare ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Burchard" To: "Applied ethology list" Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 7:36 AM Subject: Re: Behavior affecting nutritional supplements for pigs > Clare Lewandowski wrote: > >> A book called Adrenal fatigue, 21st century syndrome. >> http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/ >> I'll also check another book called the Cortisol connection, I believe >> there are references there also. > > It has become popular in certain canine circles to think that > "hypothyroidism" > is the root cause of all sorts of obscure ills. Dosing the animals with > thyroid > supplements does in many cases bring improvement, leading people to think > "aha, > diagnosis ex juvantibus" and not pursue the matter further. In at least > many > cases, however, the animals in question are in a state of mild chronic > adrenal > overstimulation resulting for example in many racing Greyhounds from a > slightly > too stressful training program, or from other life-situation parameters. > Excess > cortisol "locking out" thyroid hormone would provide an interesting > alternative > - and perhaps preferable - explanation for some of these phenomena. > > The picture is complicated by the fact that many extreme canine athletes > have > naturally low levels of circulating thyroid hormone, without being in any > way > hypothyroid. That is a genetic feature independent of stress or > exertion - but > misunderstanding it has caused many animals to receive unnecessary thyroid > supplementation, with not always desirable physiological and metabolic > consequences ... > > So I will be most interested in any further information which may be > forthcoming > on this topic. > > John > -- > Dr. John Burchard > Tepe Gawra Salukis > http://saluqi.home.netcom.com/ > saluqi@ix.netcom.com > From: IN%"Nabilbrandl@privat.dk" "Nabil Brandl" 11-DEC-2004 00:22:05.59 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: New image analysis program Dear members Here is a new image analysis program to manage and locate anaimal positions to analize animal movements. click on the following link to read and downloaded the program: http://nabilnabil.homestead.com/Prog_Image.htm Best regards and keep in touch Nabil Brandl e-mail: nabilbrandl@privat.dk http://nabilnabil.homestead.com http://home20.inet.tele.dk/nabilbrandl/nabil.html Skype Me! From: IN%"johva@ifm.liu.se" "Johanna =?UNKNOWN?Q?V=E4is=E4nen?=" 11-DEC-2004 01:45:04.48 To: IN%"Nabilbrandl@privat.dk" "Nabil Brandl", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: RE: New image analysis program Dear Nabil, Could you give a short introduction on this programme here? Cheers, Johanna At 07:21 2004-12-11, Nabil Brandl wrote: >Dear members > >Here is a new image analysis program to manage and locate anaimal >positions to analize animal movements. > >click on the following link to read and downloaded the program: > >http://nabilnabil.homestead.com/Prog_Image.htm > >Best regards and keep in touch > >Nabil Brandl >e-mail: nabilbrandl@privat.dk > >http://nabilnabil.homestead.com >http://home20.inet.tele.dk/nabilbrandl/nabil.html >Skype Me! >[] > > _______________________________________________________ Johanna Väisänen, PhD student in Ethology Department of Biology, IFM University of Linköping SE-581 83 Linköping Phone: +44-13-281243 Mobile: +358-440-172428 Email:johanna.vaisanen@ifm.liu.se ________________________________________________________ From: IN%"pajor@purdue.edu" "Pajor, Edmond A." 14-DEC-2004 12:39:51.08 To: IN%"ISAEnet-l@usask.ca", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"RREYNNELLS@CSREES.USDA.GOV" "Reynnells, Richard", IN%"haleyderek@hotmail.com" "Derek Haley" CC: Subj: Post-doc position now open POST-DOCTORAL POSITION IN SWINE MOTIVATION AND WELFARE A post-doctoral position in applied ethology is available in the Department of Animal Sciences, Purdue University, West Lafayette, Indiana, USA. The successful applicant will conduct research to develop a valid food-metric scale on which to measure motivational strength for environmental enrichments Purdue is a state-assisted university with more than 36,000 students at the West Lafayette campus. West Lafayette is located approximately 66 miles north-west of Indianapolis and 116 miles south-east of Chicago. Additional information regarding the Department of Animal Sciences can be accessed at http://www.ansc.purdue.edu/ The USDA-ARS Livestock Behavior Research Unit is also located at Purdue. The successful applicant will have the opportunity and be encouraged to collaborate with USDA scientists. Additional information regarding the USDA-ARS Livestock Behavior Research Unit can be accessed at http://ag.ansc.purdue.edu/usda/index.htm The successful applicant will have a Ph.D. in domestic animal behavior. Previous experience in conducting motivational research, including computer programming and equipment design would be advantageous. This will be a one-year appointment that will be renewed for a second year pending a satisfactory performance appraisal. Starting date is somewhat flexible, but the position is available as early as January, 2005. Salary range is between $26,000 and $30,000 plus benefits Interested applicants should send a current curriculum vitae, reprints, and names, addresses and phone numbers of two persons to be contacted for letters of recommendation to: Dr. Ed Pajor Associate Professor Animal welfare and behavior Dept. of Animal Sciences Purdue University Poultry Science Building 125 S.Russell Street West Lafayette, IN 47904-2042 PH: 765-496-6665 Fax 765-494-9347 Email: pajor@purdue.edu Purdue University is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer Dr. Ed Pajor. Ph.D. Associate Professor Animal welfare and behavior Dept. of Animal Sciences Purdue University Poultry Science Building 125 S.Russell Street West Lafayette, IN 47904-2042 PH: 765-496-6665 Fax 765-494-9347 Email: pajor@purdue.edu