Subject: Tonic Immobility in Bos Indicus From: Dottie Love Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 10:10:37 -0600 To: "Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Hi everyone--I asked about this topic a few weeks back; perhaps it got lost due to my vague subject heading. So I'll ask again regarding Miniature Zebu Cattle (original post below);. I believe that tonic immobility is the name for this behavior. So--if it is a fear behavior, and taming involves fear and overcoming fear AND the human attempts to minimize all discomfort in the animal, which one of these answers is most correct? The whole experience of taming is better on the animal: a) if it's done when the animal is very young--"baby" under 3 mos., still nursing--taken away for 30 minutes, exposed to stress, then returned. b) if the calf is 3-6 months (normal weaning range)--taken away for a weekend with siblings/herd members if different ages, then returned to the herd. c) if the calf is fully weaned and demonstrating "grownup" behavior (not seeking dam for reassurance). d) (fill in the blank) In one study it was reported that younger calves' heart rates returned to normal levels faster than olders animals. So I am thinking that a "younger is better, they will forget the bad experience" might be best, as in the human circumcision practice on newborns. I hope that all the academics on this list are having as "stress-free as possible" end of the semester. I am celebrating my last day of classes--it's almost over, but I'm too tired to feel euphoria! Thanks--Dottie Love (original msg. below) -- Dottie Love Fancher Love Ranch www.fancherloveranch.com Miniature Zebu Cattle American Miniature Zebu Association www.amzaonline.com Education/Promotion/Preservation The World's Smallest Cattle Hi everyone--please forgive my non-professionalism and newbieness. I am a college computer graphics teacher, artist, VP of the American Miniature Zebu Association, and an avid, albeit informal, student of Applied Ethology. I am fascinated by cattle behavior, bos indicus in particular, and my herd of 20 Miniature Zebu. You all are probably familiar w/ these, but in case you're not, the Mini Zebu is not a downsized version on an American Brahman. They are a natural variation landrace type adapted to poor forage conditions, and are used in Southeast Asia as draft animals in rice paddies. Mine here in North Texas are pets and show animals. I only sell calves, resulting in an extremely stable herd hierarchy of stay-at-home moms and show bulls. OK, here's my question: I need an explanation of a certain behavior. I'll try to list who, what, where, when, and I hope you can give me the why. What: the animal sinks to the ground and won't get up. It appears like they faint or "swoon." Eyes open. Nothing works to move them. Sooner or later, they jump up and seem normal. When: it occurs most often when the animal is haltered and led into the show ring. Many times it happens when they are haltered for the first time, even at home. It doesn't seem to happen when they're roped--they pull back strenuously then. (Here's my roping technique: I slowly follow them around in a small pen with a soft nylon rope noose until they put their head into it. I work slowly and alone and try to never panic my cows.) Our calves are under 20 lbs. at birth--when you carry them, they're still for maybe a minute, then struggle furiously. Where: mostly in public with a halter and lead. Never at the vet. Never in a squeeze chute or calf table, never even in a tilt table for hoof trimming. Never when loading into a trailer. Never when unrestrained. Who: most often calves with a lack of show experience. Can happen with adults with a lack of show experience. Can happen with bottle-raised, highly socialized animals who haven't been haltered and led much (because they follow you around like a dog). Can happen with seasoned show animals when they walk on unfamiliar surfaces, like very deep sand. This behavior doesn't seem to have a negative impact over time. Calves grow up into "normal" show animals with plenty of confidence (also we show our cattle all throughout their lives, not like beef or dairy breeds--they're not slaughtered). Our organization is involved in an energetic discussion over whether this behavior indicates fear, or extreme stress, or what. We don't want to scare our animals or train them using cruel or inhumane techniques. Audience responses at shows indicate they think the animal has "died of fright." Old-time ranchers often say that the animal is "sulling up" and just being stubborn. The longest time I saw it happen was about 8 hours with an adult cow. She refused to eat or drink, and even rested her head on the water bucket. Thanks in advance for your help--Dottie Love -- Dottie Love Fancher Love Ranch www.fancherloveranch.com Miniature Zebu Cattle American Miniature Zebu Association www.amzaonline.com Education/Promotion/Preservation The World's Smallest Cattle Subject: Re: Tonic Immobility in Bos Indicus From: "CM Sherwin, Animal Health and Husbandry" Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:31:42 +0000 To: dottielove@hughes.net, Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Dear Dottie, I doubt very much that the behaviour you describe is tonic immobility. I have only read of tonic immobility occurring in some reptiles, hens and possums (hence the expression 'playing possum'). I think if it occurred in bovines, we would have heard more reports about it, and your own cattle would exhibit the behaviour under the more restrictive procedures you describe, e.g. on the table for hoof trimming. TI usually only occurs after a period of extreme restraint, usually by a predator, and it is thought to be a last-ditch survival mechanism. Does the behaviour in your cattle resemble that of the feinting goats? Chris P.S. This list is populated by many people outside the U.S. so unfortunately not all academics here are approaching a stress-free end of semester ;-) ---------------------- Chris Sherwin Senior Research Fellow in Animal Behaviour and Welfare Division Clinical Veterinary Science University of Bristol Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk Phone 0117 928 9486 --On 03 December 2008 10:10 -0600 Dottie Love wrote: > Hi everyone--I asked about this topic a few weeks back; perhaps it got > lost due to my vague subject heading. So I'll ask again regarding > Miniature Zebu Cattle (original post below);. I believe that tonic > immobility is the name for this behavior. > > So--if it is a fear behavior, and taming involves fear and overcoming > fear AND the human attempts to minimize all discomfort in the animal, > which one of these answers is most correct? > > The whole experience of taming is better on the animal: > > a) if it's done when the animal is very young--"baby" under 3 mos., still > nursing--taken away for 30 minutes, exposed to stress, then returned. > > b) if the calf is 3-6 months (normal weaning range)--taken away for a > weekend with siblings/herd members if different ages, then returned to > the herd. > > c) if the calf is fully weaned and demonstrating "grownup" behavior (not > seeking dam for reassurance). > > d) (fill in the blank) > > In one study it was reported that younger calves' heart rates returned to > normal levels faster than olders animals. So I am thinking that a > "younger is better, they will forget the bad experience" might be best, > as in the human circumcision practice on newborns. > > I hope that all the academics on this list are having as "stress-free as > possible" end of the semester. I am celebrating my last day of > classes--it's almost over, but I'm too tired to feel euphoria! > Thanks--Dottie Love (original msg. below) > -- > > Dottie Love > > Fancher Love Ranch > > www.fancherloveranch.com > > Miniature Zebu Cattle > > > American Miniature Zebu Association > > www.amzaonline.com > > Education/Promotion/Preservation > > The World's Smallest Cattle > > > Hi everyone--please forgive my non-professionalism and newbieness. I am a > college computer graphics teacher, artist, VP of the American Miniature > Zebu Association, and an avid, albeit informal, student of Applied > Ethology. I am fascinated by cattle behavior, bos indicus in particular, > and my herd of 20 Miniature Zebu. You all are probably familiar w/ these, > but in case you're not, the Mini Zebu is not a downsized version on an > American Brahman. They are a natural variation landrace type adapted to > poor forage conditions, and are used in Southeast Asia as draft animals > in rice paddies. Mine here in North Texas are pets and show animals. I > only sell calves, resulting in an extremely stable herd hierarchy of > stay-at-home moms and show bulls. > > OK, here's my question: I need an explanation of a certain behavior. I'll > try to list who, what, where, when, and I hope you can give me the why. > > What: the animal sinks to the ground and won't get up. It appears like > they faint or "swoon." Eyes open. Nothing works to move them. Sooner or > later, they jump up and seem normal. > > When: it occurs most often when the animal is haltered and led into the > show ring. Many times it happens when they are haltered for the first > time, even at home. It doesn't seem to happen when they're roped--they > pull back strenuously then. (Here's my roping technique: I slowly follow > them around in a small pen with a soft nylon rope noose until they put > their head into it. I work slowly and alone and try to never panic my > cows.) Our calves are under 20 lbs. at birth--when you carry them, > they're still for maybe a minute, then struggle furiously. > > Where: mostly in public with a halter and lead. Never at the vet. Never > in a squeeze chute or calf table, never even in a tilt table for hoof > trimming. Never when loading into a trailer. Never when unrestrained. > > Who: most often calves with a lack of show experience. Can happen with > adults with a lack of show experience. Can happen with bottle-raised, > highly socialized animals who haven't been haltered and led much (because > they follow you around like a dog). Can happen with seasoned show animals > when they walk on unfamiliar surfaces, like very deep sand. > > This behavior doesn't seem to have a negative impact over time. Calves > grow up into "normal" show animals with plenty of confidence (also we > show our cattle all throughout their lives, not like beef or dairy > breeds--they're not slaughtered). > > Our organization is involved in an energetic discussion over whether this > behavior indicates fear, or extreme stress, or what. We don't want to > scare our animals or train them using cruel or inhumane techniques. > Audience responses at shows indicate they think the animal has "died of > fright." Old-time ranchers often say that the animal is "sulling up" and > just being stubborn. The longest time I saw it happen was about 8 hours > with an adult cow. She refused to eat or drink, and even rested her head > on the water bucket. > > Thanks in advance for your help--Dottie Love > -- > > Dottie Love > > Fancher Love Ranch > > www.fancherloveranch.com > > Miniature Zebu Cattle > > > American Miniature Zebu Association > > www.amzaonline.com > > Education/Promotion/Preservation > > The World's Smallest Cattle > > > ---------------------- Chris Sherwin Senior Research Fellow in Animal Behaviour and Welfare Division Clinical Veterinary Science University of Bristol Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk Phone 0117 928 9486 Subject: Re: Tonic Immobility in Bos Indicus From: "Jay R. Feierman" Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 09:39:50 -0700 To: Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Hello Dottie, You mention tonic immobility and taming. I'll give you some anecdotes regarding both, although my anecdotes have nothing to do with miniature Zebu cattle. Tonic Immobility: My son told me the following story. Last year he was driving home and passed a horse farm. He noticed that there was smoke coming from the barn. He drove into the property and knocked on the door of the house. The lady in the house and my son went to the barn and led a number of horses out of the barn. My son then noticed a box stall in which a Billy goat was lying down on its side with its legs straight. By this time the barn was filled with smoke. My son said that he dragged the Billy goat out of the barn. It acted as though it had rigor mortis and didn't move as he dragged it out. By that time the fire trucks were at the house. One of the fireman started giving mouth to mouth resuscitation to the Billy goat. All of a sudden the goat started moving and jumped up. I think this is an example of a fear reaction in the goat that caused a type of tonic immobility. Tonic immobility is a fear response that is a complement to such things as hiding and fleeing. Tonic immobility is also seen in invertebrates, especially spiders, who can act dead when they can't get away from harm. Taming: We used to have barn cats that lived in our horse barn. We never fed them, as they ate the mice that came to eat the grain. We learned that if a barn cat had kittens, we had a few month time to handle the kittens. If we did not handle them within this few month period after birth, they acted like wild animals and we could never handle them as adults, no matter how many years they lived in the barn. This is an example of sensitive or critical period learning. Regards, Jay R. Feierman To join the Yahoo Human Ethology Group Go to http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/human-ethology/ Subject: RE: Tonic Immobility in Bos Indicus From: Virginia Bowen Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:18:33 -0600 To: "'CM Sherwin, Animal Health and Husbandry'" , dottielove@hughes.net, Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Hi Dottie: I'm so glad you re-asked your question. I'm the one who replied before. I had another thought. Again, however, anecdotal and without seeing exactly what is happening with both species involved (i.e. the donkey in my story and your cattle), I have no idea if it is the same action. Donkeys are well known for their independent mindedness. This means that sometimes they stop wanting to do whatever it is you're doing with them at that moment, and if you insist on continuing they can resort to all manner of what really amounts to a "hissy fit." A friend of mine had just taught his miniature donkey gelding how to pull a cart when he decided to take a drive in his rural neighborhood. He knew his donkey was wanting to go home at one point, but he tried to go just a little further before turning back. Before he could ask the donkey to turn around, the donkey flopped down (in the manner that donkeys normally lay down, but with a feeling of exasperation) then laid flat on his side, let out a giant sigh, and then just lay there. My friend panicked! He thought for sure he had killed his little donkey! When he got to the donkey he could tell he was still breathing and his eyes were tracking movements but he still did not rouse. Now truly panicking my friend was trying everything and crying while doing so. When he flopped back onto his butt in the grass, giving up, the donkey popped up cheerily and gave a little shake and looked at him as if to say " OK, you've been punished enough." So another question is if your cattle are falling over or flopping down in what looks like an exasperated normal lie down? There is one of those internet "funnies" that goes around about how horses play games with their owners. One of them is: "lay perfectly still in your paddock while the human comes running and screaming 'are you OK!? Are you alive??!'. When the human arrives at you stay perfectly still for one more moment and then hop up quickly, give a shake, and look at your human perfectly innocently." Sure sounds just like what my friend had happen, and I now have had happen with some of my horses. Anyone who has spent quality time with horses, and especially donkeys, know of the very dry equine sense of humor. Chris: I understand what you're saying but one thing I started thinking about is that to cattle, who are usually worked in large spaces or Arenas where they can at least see the open sky and exits, the show ring could look very much like the predators circling and closing in. Especially in many of the more rural shows I have attended where people crowd in around the show ring and the ring is completely encircled by mobs of people. I would think this would be extremely intimidating to the cattle, especially the first time. Virginia Brownwood, TX -----Original Message----- From: CM Sherwin, Animal Health and Husbandry [mailto:Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 10:32 AM To: dottielove@hughes.net; Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Subject: Re: Tonic Immobility in Bos Indicus Dear Dottie, I doubt very much that the behaviour you describe is tonic immobility. I have only read of tonic immobility occurring in some reptiles, hens and possums (hence the expression 'playing possum'). I think if it occurred in bovines, we would have heard more reports about it, and your own cattle would exhibit the behaviour under the more restrictive procedures you describe, e.g. on the table for hoof trimming. TI usually only occurs after a period of extreme restraint, usually by a predator, and it is thought to be a last-ditch survival mechanism. Does the behaviour in your cattle resemble that of the feinting goats? Chris P.S. This list is populated by many people outside the U.S. so unfortunately not all academics here are approaching a stress-free end of semester ;-) ---------------------- Chris Sherwin Senior Research Fellow in Animal Behaviour and Welfare Division Clinical Veterinary Science University of Bristol Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk Phone 0117 928 9486 --On 03 December 2008 10:10 -0600 Dottie Love wrote: > > Hi everyone--I asked about this topic a few weeks back; perhaps it got > > lost due to my vague subject heading. So I'll ask again regarding > > Miniature Zebu Cattle (original post below);. I believe that tonic > > immobility is the name for this behavior. > > > > So--if it is a fear behavior, and taming involves fear and overcoming > > fear AND the human attempts to minimize all discomfort in the animal, > > which one of these answers is most correct? > > > > The whole experience of taming is better on the animal: > > > > a) if it's done when the animal is very young--"baby" under 3 mos., still > > nursing--taken away for 30 minutes, exposed to stress, then returned. > > > > b) if the calf is 3-6 months (normal weaning range)--taken away for a > > weekend with siblings/herd members if different ages, then returned to > > the herd. > > > > c) if the calf is fully weaned and demonstrating "grownup" behavior (not > > seeking dam for reassurance). > > > > d) (fill in the blank) > > > > In one study it was reported that younger calves' heart rates returned to > > normal levels faster than olders animals. So I am thinking that a > > "younger is better, they will forget the bad experience" might be best, > > as in the human circumcision practice on newborns. > > > > I hope that all the academics on this list are having as "stress-free as > > possible" end of the semester. I am celebrating my last day of > > classes--it's almost over, but I'm too tired to feel euphoria! > > Thanks--Dottie Love (original msg. below) > > -- > > > > Dottie Love > > > > Fancher Love Ranch > > > > www.fancherloveranch.com > > > > Miniature Zebu Cattle > > > > > > American Miniature Zebu Association > > > > www.amzaonline.com > > > > Education/Promotion/Preservation > > > > The World's Smallest Cattle > > > > > > Hi everyone--please forgive my non-professionalism and newbieness. I am a > > college computer graphics teacher, artist, VP of the American Miniature > > Zebu Association, and an avid, albeit informal, student of Applied > > Ethology. I am fascinated by cattle behavior, bos indicus in particular, > > and my herd of 20 Miniature Zebu. You all are probably familiar w/ these, > > but in case you're not, the Mini Zebu is not a downsized version on an > > American Brahman. They are a natural variation landrace type adapted to > > poor forage conditions, and are used in Southeast Asia as draft animals > > in rice paddies. Mine here in North Texas are pets and show animals. I > > only sell calves, resulting in an extremely stable herd hierarchy of > > stay-at-home moms and show bulls. > > > > OK, here's my question: I need an explanation of a certain behavior. I'll > > try to list who, what, where, when, and I hope you can give me the why. > > > > What: the animal sinks to the ground and won't get up. It appears like > > they faint or "swoon." Eyes open. Nothing works to move them. Sooner or > > later, they jump up and seem normal. > > > > When: it occurs most often when the animal is haltered and led into the > > show ring. Many times it happens when they are haltered for the first > > time, even at home. It doesn't seem to happen when they're roped--they > > pull back strenuously then. (Here's my roping technique: I slowly follow > > them around in a small pen with a soft nylon rope noose until they put > > their head into it. I work slowly and alone and try to never panic my > > cows.) Our calves are under 20 lbs. at birth--when you carry them, > > they're still for maybe a minute, then struggle furiously. > > > > Where: mostly in public with a halter and lead. Never at the vet. Never > > in a squeeze chute or calf table, never even in a tilt table for hoof > > trimming. Never when loading into a trailer. Never when unrestrained. > > > > Who: most often calves with a lack of show experience. Can happen with > > adults with a lack of show experience. Can happen with bottle-raised, > > highly socialized animals who haven't been haltered and led much (because > > they follow you around like a dog). Can happen with seasoned show animals > > when they walk on unfamiliar surfaces, like very deep sand. > > > > This behavior doesn't seem to have a negative impact over time. Calves > > grow up into "normal" show animals with plenty of confidence (also we > > show our cattle all throughout their lives, not like beef or dairy > > breeds--they're not slaughtered). > > > > Our organization is involved in an energetic discussion over whether this > > behavior indicates fear, or extreme stress, or what. We don't want to > > scare our animals or train them using cruel or inhumane techniques. > > Audience responses at shows indicate they think the animal has "died of > > fright." Old-time ranchers often say that the animal is "sulling up" and > > just being stubborn. The longest time I saw it happen was about 8 hours > > with an adult cow. She refused to eat or drink, and even rested her head > > on the water bucket. > > > > Thanks in advance for your help--Dottie Love > > -- > > > > Dottie Love > > > > Fancher Love Ranch > > > > www.fancherloveranch.com > > > > Miniature Zebu Cattle > > > > > > American Miniature Zebu Association > > > > www.amzaonline.com > > > > Education/Promotion/Preservation > > > > The World's Smallest Cattle > > > > > > ---------------------- Chris Sherwin Senior Research Fellow in Animal Behaviour and Welfare Division Clinical Veterinary Science University of Bristol Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk Phone 0117 928 9486 Subject: RE: Tonic Immobility in Bos Indicus From: "CM Sherwin, Animal Health and Husbandry" Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 18:24:56 +0000 To: ForVirg@verizon.net, "'CM Sherwin, Animal Health and Husbandry'" , dottielove@hughes.net, Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Hi Virginia, Yes, I agree the show ring is almost certainly a very intimidating place and the cattle might indeed perceive human spectators as predators. We regularly use induced tonic immobility in hens as an indicator of how fearful they are (hens stay in tonic immobility longer the more frightened they are), but, I have never heard/read of cattle going into tonic immobility. It is almost certainly an innate response, and should therefore have been observed previously if it is a natural response of cattle. - but then again, maybe this is just the start of those observations. All the best, Chris --On 03 December 2008 12:18 -0600 Virginia Bowen wrote: > Hi Dottie: > > I'm so glad you re-asked your question. I'm the one who replied before. > I had another thought. Again, however, anecdotal and without seeing > exactly what is happening with both species involved (i.e. the donkey in > my story and your cattle), I have no idea if it is the same action. > > Donkeys are well known for their independent mindedness. This means that > sometimes they stop wanting to do whatever it is you're doing with them at > that moment, and if you insist on continuing they can resort to all manner > of what really amounts to a "hissy fit." A friend of mine had just taught > his miniature donkey gelding how to pull a cart when he decided to take a > drive in his rural neighborhood. He knew his donkey was wanting to go > home at one point, but he tried to go just a little further before > turning back. Before he could ask the donkey to turn around, the donkey > flopped down (in the manner that donkeys normally lay down, but with a > feeling of exasperation) then laid flat on his side, let out a giant > sigh, and then just lay there. My friend panicked! He thought for sure > he had killed his little donkey! > > When he got to the donkey he could tell he was still breathing and his > eyes were tracking movements but he still did not rouse. Now truly > panicking my friend was trying everything and crying while doing so. > When he flopped back onto his butt in the grass, giving up, the donkey > popped up cheerily and gave a little shake and looked at him as if to say > " OK, you've been punished enough." > > So another question is if your cattle are falling over or flopping down in > what looks like an exasperated normal lie down? > > There is one of those internet "funnies" that goes around about how horses > play games with their owners. One of them is: "lay perfectly still in > your paddock while the human comes running and screaming 'are you OK!? > Are you alive??!'. When the human arrives at you stay perfectly still > for one more moment and then hop up quickly, give a shake, and look at > your human perfectly innocently." Sure sounds just like what my friend > had happen, and I now have had happen with some of my horses. Anyone who > has spent quality time with horses, and especially donkeys, know of the > very dry equine sense of humor. > > Chris: I understand what you're saying but one thing I started thinking > about is that to cattle, who are usually worked in large spaces or Arenas > where they can at least see the open sky and exits, the show ring could > look very much like the predators circling and closing in. Especially in > many of the more rural shows I have attended where people crowd in around > the show ring and the ring is completely encircled by mobs of people. I > would think this would be extremely intimidating to the cattle, > especially the first time. > > Virginia > Brownwood, TX > > -----Original Message----- > From: CM Sherwin, Animal Health and Husbandry > [mailto:Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk] > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 10:32 AM > To: dottielove@hughes.net; Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca > Subject: Re: Tonic Immobility in Bos Indicus > > Dear Dottie, > > I doubt very much that the behaviour you describe is tonic immobility. I > have only read of tonic immobility occurring in some reptiles, hens and > possums (hence the expression 'playing possum'). I think if it occurred > in bovines, we would have heard more reports about it, and your own > cattle would exhibit the behaviour under the more restrictive procedures > you describe, e.g. on the table for hoof trimming. TI usually only > occurs after a period of extreme restraint, usually by a predator, and > it is thought to be a last-ditch survival mechanism. Does the behaviour > in your cattle resemble that of the feinting goats? > > Chris > > P.S. This list is populated by many people outside the U.S. so > unfortunately not all academics here are approaching a stress-free end of > semester ;-) > > > ---------------------- > Chris Sherwin > Senior Research Fellow in Animal Behaviour and Welfare > Division Clinical Veterinary Science > University of Bristol > Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk > Phone 0117 928 9486 > > > > --On 03 December 2008 10:10 -0600 Dottie Love > wrote: > >> Hi everyone--I asked about this topic a few weeks back; perhaps it got >> lost due to my vague subject heading. So I'll ask again regarding >> Miniature Zebu Cattle (original post below);. I believe that tonic >> immobility is the name for this behavior. >> >> So--if it is a fear behavior, and taming involves fear and overcoming >> fear AND the human attempts to minimize all discomfort in the animal, >> which one of these answers is most correct? >> >> The whole experience of taming is better on the animal: >> >> a) if it's done when the animal is very young--"baby" under 3 mos., still >> nursing--taken away for 30 minutes, exposed to stress, then returned. >> >> b) if the calf is 3-6 months (normal weaning range)--taken away for a >> weekend with siblings/herd members if different ages, then returned to >> the herd. >> >> c) if the calf is fully weaned and demonstrating "grownup" behavior (not >> seeking dam for reassurance). >> >> d) (fill in the blank) >> >> In one study it was reported that younger calves' heart rates returned to >> normal levels faster than olders animals. So I am thinking that a >> "younger is better, they will forget the bad experience" might be best, >> as in the human circumcision practice on newborns. >> >> I hope that all the academics on this list are having as "stress-free as >> possible" end of the semester. I am celebrating my last day of >> classes--it's almost over, but I'm too tired to feel euphoria! >> Thanks--Dottie Love (original msg. below) >> -- >> >> Dottie Love >> >> Fancher Love Ranch >> >> www.fancherloveranch.com >> >> Miniature Zebu Cattle >> >> >> American Miniature Zebu Association >> >> www.amzaonline.com >> >> Education/Promotion/Preservation >> >> The World's Smallest Cattle >> >> >> Hi everyone--please forgive my non-professionalism and newbieness. I am a >> college computer graphics teacher, artist, VP of the American Miniature >> Zebu Association, and an avid, albeit informal, student of Applied >> Ethology. I am fascinated by cattle behavior, bos indicus in particular, >> and my herd of 20 Miniature Zebu. You all are probably familiar w/ these, >> but in case you're not, the Mini Zebu is not a downsized version on an >> American Brahman. They are a natural variation landrace type adapted to >> poor forage conditions, and are used in Southeast Asia as draft animals >> in rice paddies. Mine here in North Texas are pets and show animals. I >> only sell calves, resulting in an extremely stable herd hierarchy of >> stay-at-home moms and show bulls. >> >> OK, here's my question: I need an explanation of a certain behavior. I'll >> try to list who, what, where, when, and I hope you can give me the why. >> >> What: the animal sinks to the ground and won't get up. It appears like >> they faint or "swoon." Eyes open. Nothing works to move them. Sooner or >> later, they jump up and seem normal. >> >> When: it occurs most often when the animal is haltered and led into the >> show ring. Many times it happens when they are haltered for the first >> time, even at home. It doesn't seem to happen when they're roped--they >> pull back strenuously then. (Here's my roping technique: I slowly follow >> them around in a small pen with a soft nylon rope noose until they put >> their head into it. I work slowly and alone and try to never panic my >> cows.) Our calves are under 20 lbs. at birth--when you carry them, >> they're still for maybe a minute, then struggle furiously. >> >> Where: mostly in public with a halter and lead. Never at the vet. Never >> in a squeeze chute or calf table, never even in a tilt table for hoof >> trimming. Never when loading into a trailer. Never when unrestrained. >> >> Who: most often calves with a lack of show experience. Can happen with >> adults with a lack of show experience. Can happen with bottle-raised, >> highly socialized animals who haven't been haltered and led much (because >> they follow you around like a dog). Can happen with seasoned show animals >> when they walk on unfamiliar surfaces, like very deep sand. >> >> This behavior doesn't seem to have a negative impact over time. Calves >> grow up into "normal" show animals with plenty of confidence (also we >> show our cattle all throughout their lives, not like beef or dairy >> breeds--they're not slaughtered). >> >> Our organization is involved in an energetic discussion over whether this >> behavior indicates fear, or extreme stress, or what. We don't want to >> scare our animals or train them using cruel or inhumane techniques. >> Audience responses at shows indicate they think the animal has "died of >> fright." Old-time ranchers often say that the animal is "sulling up" and >> just being stubborn. The longest time I saw it happen was about 8 hours >> with an adult cow. She refused to eat or drink, and even rested her head >> on the water bucket. >> >> Thanks in advance for your help--Dottie Love >> -- >> >> Dottie Love >> >> Fancher Love Ranch >> >> www.fancherloveranch.com >> >> Miniature Zebu Cattle >> >> >> American Miniature Zebu Association >> >> www.amzaonline.com >> >> Education/Promotion/Preservation >> >> The World's Smallest Cattle >> >> >> > > > > ---------------------- > Chris Sherwin > Senior Research Fellow in Animal Behaviour and Welfare > Division Clinical Veterinary Science > University of Bristol > Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk > Phone 0117 928 9486 > ---------------------- Chris Sherwin Senior Research Fellow in Animal Behaviour and Welfare Division Clinical Veterinary Science University of Bristol Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk Phone 0117 928 9486 Subject: Re: Tonic Immobility in Bos Indicus From: EJ Haskins Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 10:54:07 +1100 To: ethology From: "Virginia Bowen" > Donkeys are well known for their independent mindedness. This means that sometimes they stop wanting to do whatever it is you're doing with them at that moment, and if you insist on continuing they can resort to all manner of what really amounts to a "hissy fit." . . .. When he flopped back onto his butt in the grass, giving up, the donkey popped up cheerily and gave a little shake and looked at him as if to say " OK, you've been punished enough."> I love it! I've know kids (human kids that is) like this! Not to mention terriers and Huskies! (And I believe Dingoes) Which is why of course, humans prefer to work with horses than donkeys, and Border Collies, and Kelpies for 'work' rather than terriers. (I just love to see a Husky siting there and saying clearly "I don't think so!" -- but I'll admire other's Huskies and keep my Kelpies :-) Of course we humans have an arrogant way of calling willingness to do as we tell them 'intelligence'. Highly intelligent animals (including children) can be a real challenge to work with. Cheers, Jenny H Coffs Australia