From: IN%"fmartin@vetmed.wsu.edu" "Francois Martin" 1-FEB-2001 13:35:20.56 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca'" CC: Subj: Position Available This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --Boundary_(ID_nvd6+LvyKVDRPqor2DHDBw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT JOB DESCRIPTION OUR FARM Taylor Texas Companionable Zoo Program Expectations: Act as head teacher for a Companionable Zoo Program modeled after teaching methodology developed at Green Chimneys and the Devereux Foundation. Write lesson plans using contact with animals and nature as the experiential teaching method for elementary and middle school students of surrounding school districts. Maintain welfare of small animals in the Companionable Zoo building. Work with Dr. Aaron Katcher to develop a method of evaluating and testing efficacy of the teaching program. Keep records on students and their performance that would make evaluation possible. Act as spokesperson for the program to surrounding school districts, parents organizations, civic organizations and granting agencies. Work with local Universities and Colleges to develop an internship program for students interested in special and experiential education. Be responsible for training and supervision of a second teacher when funds are obtained and the teacher recruited. Present papers describing the program and its results at national and international meetings. Qualifications Required: Commitment to the welfare of both children and animals. Experience with experiential education with animals and nature. Experience with education of children in special education, children "at risk" and children with special needs. Computer literacy and ability to use the Internet for teaching and some skill in using data base programs. Some experience with grant writing is desirable but not essential. Program Location: My Farm is located in the rural community of Taylor Texas that is becoming rapidly suburbanized. It is with in the orbit of Austin and close to the suburban communities of Georgetown and Round Rock. My Farm has 188 acres with a sizable pond and is devoted to organic agriculture and preservation of rare breeds of domestic animals. The teaching program will be housed in a twenty foot by thirty-foot building that will house a collection of small animals, computers and teaching materials. Work with vegetable and flower gardens will also be part of student activities. Salary and Benefits Salary will be competitive, related to qualifications and experience, and associated with benefits. Please direct inquiries and send Resumes to: Aaron Katcher, MD 3008 Spring Oak Place Arlington TX 76017 (817) 465-0116 E-mail akfalco@aol.com --Boundary_(ID_nvd6+LvyKVDRPqor2DHDBw) Content-type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1

  JOB DESCRIPTION

OUR FARM

Taylor Texas

Companionable Zoo Program

Expectations:

Act as head teacher for a Companionable Zoo Program modeled after teaching methodology developed at Green Chimneys and the Devereux Foundation.

Write lesson plans using contact with animals and nature as the experiential teaching method for elementary and middle school students of surrounding school districts.

Maintain welfare of small animals in the Companionable Zoo building.

Work with Dr. Aaron Katcher to develop a method of evaluating and testing efficacy of the teaching program.

Keep records on students and their performance that would make evaluation possible.

Act as spokesperson for the program to surrounding school districts, parents organizations, civic organizations and granting agencies.

Work with local Universities and Colleges to develop an internship program for students interested in special and experiential education.

Be responsible for training and supervision of a second teacher when funds are obtained and the teacher recruited.

Present papers describing the program and its results at national and international meetings.

Qualifications Required:

Commitment to the welfare of both children and animals.

Experience with experiential education with animals and nature.

Experience with education of children in special education, children "at risk" and children with special needs.

Computer literacy and ability to use the Internet for teaching and some skill in using data base programs.

Some experience with grant writing is desirable but not essential.

Program Location:

My Farm is located in the rural community of Taylor Texas that is becoming rapidly suburbanized. It is with in the orbit of Austin and close to the suburban communities of Georgetown and Round Rock.

My Farm has 188 acres with a sizable pond and is devoted to organic agriculture and preservation of rare breeds of domestic animals. The teaching program will be housed in a twenty foot by thirty-foot building that will house a collection of small animals, computers and teaching materials. Work with vegetable and flower gardens will also be part of student activities.

Salary and Benefits

Salary will be competitive, related to qualifications and experience, and associated with benefits.

Please direct inquiries and send Resumes to:

Aaron Katcher, MD 

 3008 Spring Oak Place

Arlington TX 76017

(817) 465-0116

E-mail akfalco@aol.com
 
 
 
 
--Boundary_(ID_nvd6+LvyKVDRPqor2DHDBw)-- From: IN%"JPGarner@UCDavis.Edu" "Garner, Joseph P." 1-FEB-2001 14:38:24.09 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: IN%"JAMench@UCDavis.Edu" "Mench, Joy A." Subj: International Society Of Applied Ethology - Abstracts due soon fo r the Davis conference! Hi everyone, Just a reminder that ISAE abstracts are due in a little over two weeks. We have a constantly accelerating trickle of submissions arriving at the website (thank you everyone!), so why not beat the rush and swell the tide at the same time? For the technophobes out there, the form really is super easy to use, and once you click submit and see the confirmation message then not only is your abstract saved into our database, but it's automatically backed up too! We'll e-mail you within a day or two to confirm that we have you abstract. So don't delay! We trying particularly hard to encourage papers in our special topics: "Companion animal behavior" and "Influence of genetics on behavior and welfare". We will schedule all of the companion animal talks for the first day and morning of the second, so that there is no clash with the 3rd Internationall Congress on Veterinary Behaviour Medicine in Vancouver. If you are interested in organising a workshop, or you want to submit a plenary, we are asking for abstracts for potential plenary talks AND for potential workshop sessions. These are submitted on the same web-page as abstracts for posters and normal talks, AND to be guaranteed of full consideration, the same deadline applies. If you want to discuss the suitability of a potential plenary or workshop session then feel free to contact me. The number of plenary talks and workshop sessions is somewhat flexible. cheers Joe ___________________________ Dr. Joseph Garner University of California Department of Animal Science One Shields Avenue Davis CA 95616 USA Phone: (530) 754 5291 From: IN%"jbao@mail.neau.edu.cn" "Bao Jun" 4-FEB-2001 21:21:12.12 To: IN%"Applied-Ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Suggestion required This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_aTB7l9WvkGBhXenrStjEDA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I am a Ph.D student and going to start my reserach. I am gong to looking at some genetic influences on behavioural stereotypies of sows at gene levels. Now I am lack of references and also need some seggestion about the approaches to the question. Many thanks! Fred Dept.Animal Science, Northeast Agri.University, Harbin,P. R. China E-mail: jbao@mail.neau.edu.cn --Boundary_(ID_aTB7l9WvkGBhXenrStjEDA) Content-type: text/html; charset=gb2312
I am a Ph.D student and going to start my reserach. I am gong to looking at some genetic influences on behavioural stereotypies of sows at gene levels. Now I am lack of references and also need some seggestion about the approaches to the question.
 
Many thanks!
 
Fred
 
Dept.Animal Science,
Northeast Agri.University,
Harbin,P. R. China
E-mail: jbao@mail.neau.edu.cn
 
--Boundary_(ID_aTB7l9WvkGBhXenrStjEDA)-- From: IN%"katmiller@ucdavis.edu" "Katherine Ann Miller" 4-FEB-2001 22:51:11.43 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: reviews of enrichment effects Hi folks, Could anyone please suggest some good review articles on the effects of environmental enrichment on development? Behavioral, neurophysiological, temperamental, and personality effects are all of interest. No specific species in mind. Thanks so much! Katherine Miller ********************************************* Katherine Miller Animal Behavior Graduate Group Animal Science Dept. UC Davis ********************************************* From: IN%"righetti@ozemail.com.au" "righetti" 5-FEB-2001 03:08:34.50 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: dog hunting Hi everyone, Does anyone know of any research into socialising puppies with prey animals to prevent predatory behaviour in adult dogs? Thanks, Joanne Dr Joanne Righetti righetti@ozemail.com.au http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/1434 From: IN%"Pia.Baumann@bvet.admin.ch" 5-FEB-2001 03:16:24.20 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: ACTH-challenging-test Hi all! Does anybody know, if the ACTH-challenge-test can have an adversive effect on lactation, pregnancy and suckling behaviour of rabbit does and their pups? I'm also wondering, if any effect could get mediated through the milk. Thanks a lot and best wishes, Pia From: IN%"beatrice.desmet@rug.ac.be" "Beatrice De Smet" 5-FEB-2001 07:02:48.49 To: IN%"katmiller@ucdavis.edu" "Katherine Ann Miller", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: reviews of enrichment effects Dear all, Could you send the replys to the whole group, because I a m quite interested as well. thanks Dr. B. De Smet Centraal animalarium RUG De Pintelaan 185 9000 Gent Belgium > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Katherine Ann Miller [mailto:katmiller@ucdavis.edu] > Verzonden: maandag 5 februari 2001 6:00 > Aan: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca > Onderwerp: reviews of enrichment effects > > > Hi folks, > > Could anyone please suggest some good review articles on the effects of > environmental enrichment on development? Behavioral, neurophysiological, > temperamental, and personality effects are all of interest. No specific > species in mind. Thanks so much! > > Katherine Miller > > > > > > > > ********************************************* > Katherine Miller > Animal Behavior Graduate Group > Animal Science Dept. > UC Davis > ********************************************* > From: IN%"moiraharris@yahoo.com" "Moira Harris" 5-FEB-2001 07:15:06.49 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Gait scoring for pigs? Dear all, Does anybody know of a simple scoring system suitable for assessing gait in pigs? I'm not interested in sophisticated measures, but just something that would allow me to note whether a pig is limping or otherwise having difficulty walking (and if so how much difficulty) along a corridor. A search for relevant papers produced lots of material on assessment of gait in horses and dogs using complex technological methods(which is interesting but not very useful), and a few papers on poultry and dairy cattle. I'm currently using a scale of my own devising, which I adapted from a scoring system used for broiler chickens and one used for dairy cows, to assign a number between 0 and 4, where 0 = 'walks normally' and 4 = 'walks only with great difficulty and reluctance'. If there's already a pig scale out there somewhere I'd like to know. If anybody has any information about this I'd be happy to hear from you. Thanks, - Moira Harris Purdue University Indiana, USA __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From: IN%"Nora_Lewis@UManitoba.CA" "Nora Lewis" 5-FEB-2001 08:35:12.99 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: gait scoring for pigs? I would be very interested in information on an established scoring system as well. Could answers be sent to applied ethology as well as to Moira. Thanks, Nora -- Nora Lewis, Ph.D., DVM Department of Animal Science, University of Manitoba, 12 Dafoe Rd., Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. R3T 2N2 phone: 204 474-9443 fax: 204 474-7628 From: IN%"Kenneth.Rutherford@bbsrc.ac.uk" "kenneth rutherford (RI)" 5-FEB-2001 09:27:12.80 To: IN%"Nora_Lewis@UManitoba.CA" "'Nora Lewis'", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: RE: gait scoring for pigs? This might be of interest. Main, D.C.G., Clegg, J., Spatz, A. and Green L.E. 2000. Repeatability of a lameness scoring system for finishing pigs. VETERINARY RECORD 147, 574-576. Kenny Kenneth Rutherford Welfare Biology Group Roslin Institute (Edinburgh) Roslin Midlothian EH25 9PS Scotland -----Original Message----- From: Nora Lewis [mailto:Nora_Lewis@UManitoba.CA] Sent: 05 February 2001 14:35 To: Applied Ethology Subject: gait scoring for pigs? I would be very interested in information on an established scoring system as well. Could answers be sent to applied ethology as well as to Moira. Thanks, Nora -- Nora Lewis, Ph.D., DVM Department of Animal Science, University of Manitoba, 12 Dafoe Rd., Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. R3T 2N2 phone: 204 474-9443 fax: 204 474-7628 From: IN%"rsilva@cnpsa.embrapa.br" 5-FEB-2001 10:43:10.06 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Stress in broilers Dear colleagues, How I could determine stress in broilers? Cortisol? How? Sincerely, Roberto Aguilar M. S. Silva National Research Center for Swine and Poultry From: IN%"pherosynthese@wanadoo.fr" "Patrick PAGEAT" 6-FEB-2001 01:42:07.27 To: IN%"rsilva@cnpsa.embrapa.br", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Stress in broilers I would be very interested in information on an established scoring system as well.=20 Thanks, Iltud MADEC / PHEROSYNTHESE - France imadec@wanadoo.fr --=20 > De=A0: "Roberto Aguilar M. S. Silva" > R=E9pondre =E0=A0: rsilva@cnpsa.embrapa.br > Date=A0: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 14:43:33 -0200 > =C0=A0: Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca > Objet=A0: Stress in broilers >=20 > Dear colleagues, > How I could determine stress in broilers? > Cortisol? How? > Sincerely, > Roberto Aguilar M. S. Silva > National Research Center for Swine and Poultry >=20 From: IN%"JPGarner@UCDavis.Edu" "Garner, Joseph P." 6-FEB-2001 14:02:26.53 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: isae conference I've had a couple of posts asking whether the conference is open to non-members. The short answer is "yes". The conference is open to non-isae members, although the registration fee will be slightly higher. You could always join ISAE! Conference registration includes access to all sessions, workshops etc; refreshments throughout the day; a copy of the conference abstracts; a couple of recpetions. We're still sorting all the details out. We'll announce it on the list when we're ready to take registrations. cheers Joe ___________________________ Dr. Joseph Garner University of California Department of Animal Science One Shields Avenue Davis CA 95616 USA Phone: (530) 752 1253 From: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol (TBC)" 6-FEB-2001 18:19:24.22 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'ethology'" CC: Subj: Devices for controlling cattle movements All Has anybody had experience of devices that supposedly control where cattle move and graze? - no, not fences! A system was reported on one of our TV news programs that involves electrodes fitted inside the nostrils of cattle and when the cattle stray outside a certain area they are given a shock. That's about all that was reported - no details, or even whether it works or not. I know people were playing around with such concepts in the late 60s and early 70s, but I'd heard no more about them until this development. Needless to say this has sparked a spate of enquiries, and I'm at a bit of a loss. One producer even mentioned the use of ultrasound devices (presumably to act as a negative reinforcer). Anybody able to help - either with some experience of these devices, or gut-feelings about their potential usefulness or potential harm? Thanks. Carol Carol "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." Mahatma Gandhi Carol Petherick Senior Scientist (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Queensland Beef Industry Institute Tropical Beef Centre PO Box 5545 Central Qld Mail Centre Rockhampton Qld 4702 Australia email: petherc@dpi.qld.gov.au tel: (0)7 4923 8200 fax: (0)7 4923 8222 ********************************DISCLAIMER**************************** The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions contained in the message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Queensland Government and its authorities. If you received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your computer system network. From: IN%"chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "Chris Sherwin" 7-FEB-2001 03:46:28.87 To: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol (TBC)" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'ethology'" Subj: RE: Devices for controlling cattle movements Carol, Some years ago I was involved in a project in Australia where we looked at the use of sound beams as a form of cattle fence. The intention was that the animals would find the sound beams aversive and wouldn't walk through them. Unfortunately, although the sound beams caused an alerting response, they would not stop cattle walking through the intended area of containment. One problem is the massive amounts of enery needed to propagate ultrasound over any distance - unless each animal wears its own transmitter. Somewhat relatedly, I was also involved in a PROPOSED project that to stop bulls fighting, each should be fitted with a head pad that adminsitered an electric shock when the bulls started butting each other. I recommended we shouldn't be involved in the project, at least partly because it was my belief this would only intensify any aggression between bulls of similar fighting ability. Regards Chris On Wed, 07 Feb 2001 08:27:05 +1000 "Petherick, Carol (TBC)" wrote: > All > Has anybody had experience of devices that supposedly control where cattle > move and graze? - no, not fences! A system was reported on one of our TV > news programs that involves electrodes fitted inside the nostrils of cattle > and when the cattle stray outside a certain area they are given a shock. > That's about all that was reported - no details, or even whether it works > or > not. I know people were playing around with such concepts in the late 60s > and early 70s, but I'd heard no more about them until this development. > Needless to say this has sparked a spate of enquiries, and I'm at a bit of > a > loss. One producer even mentioned the use of ultrasound devices > (presumably > to act as a negative reinforcer). Anybody able to help - either with some > experience of these devices, or gut-feelings about their potential > usefulness or potential harm? > Thanks. > Carol > > Carol > > "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way > its animals are treated." > Mahatma Gandhi > > Carol Petherick > Senior Scientist (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) > Queensland Beef Industry Institute > Tropical Beef Centre > PO Box 5545 > Central Qld Mail Centre > Rockhampton > Qld 4702 > Australia > > email: petherc@dpi.qld.gov.au > tel: (0)7 4923 8200 > fax: (0)7 4923 8222 > > > ********************************DISCLAIMER**************************** > The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages > (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally > privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity > to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of > disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken > or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions > contained in the message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions > of the Queensland Government and its authorities. If you received > this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and > delete it from your computer system network. > ---------------------- Dr. C.M. Sherwin Research Fellow (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Division of Animal Health and Husbandry University of Bristol Phone: (0117) 928 9486 Langford House Fax: (0117) 928 9582 Langford Bristol E-mail: chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk BS40 5DU From: IN%"hilarykelly@callnetuk.com" "Hilary Kelly" 7-FEB-2001 04:10:59.68 To: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol (TBC)", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: RE: Devices for controlling cattle movements Dear Carol I have no experience of such systems, but a patent on this kind of device was reported in a recent (early Jan 2001) issue of New Scientist - try www.newscientist.com Best wishes Hilary Kelly ----- Original Message ----- From: Petherick, Carol (TBC) To: 'ethology' Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 10:27 PM Subject: Devices for controlling cattle movements > All > Has anybody had experience of devices that supposedly control where cattle > move and graze? - no, not fences! A system was reported on one of our TV > news programs that involves electrodes fitted inside the nostrils of cattle > and when the cattle stray outside a certain area they are given a shock. > That's about all that was reported - no details, or even whether it works or > not. I know people were playing around with such concepts in the late 60s > and early 70s, but I'd heard no more about them until this development. > Needless to say this has sparked a spate of enquiries, and I'm at a bit of a > loss. One producer even mentioned the use of ultrasound devices (presumably > to act as a negative reinforcer). Anybody able to help - either with some > experience of these devices, or gut-feelings about their potential > usefulness or potential harm? > Thanks. > Carol > > Carol > > "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way > its animals are treated." > Mahatma Gandhi > > Carol Petherick > Senior Scientist (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) > Queensland Beef Industry Institute > Tropical Beef Centre > PO Box 5545 > Central Qld Mail Centre > Rockhampton > Qld 4702 > Australia > > email: petherc@dpi.qld.gov.au > tel: (0)7 4923 8200 > fax: (0)7 4923 8222 > > > ********************************DISCLAIMER**************************** > The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages > (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally > privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity > to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of > disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken > or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions > contained in the message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions > of the Queensland Government and its authorities. If you received > this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and > delete it from your computer system network. > > From: IN%"JJCooper@dmu.ac.uk" "Jonathan Cooper" 7-FEB-2001 06:25:52.32 To: IN%"chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "'Chris Sherwin'", IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol (TBC)" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'ethology'" Subj: RE: Devices for controlling cattle movements Hi Something similar sounding has been developed to prevent dogs from "roaming" called "an invisible fence" which involved dogs receiving an electric shock if they passed a line buried in the ground. This and other novel forms of controlling dogs (e.g. electro-shock collarrs) were discussed at the Companion Animal Behaviour Study Groups conferance in Birmingham (UK) in 1997. The concern with the invisible fence was that the animal may find it harder to associate the locality with painful consequences than conventional electric fences or barbed wire. There were also stories of dogs running the fence, then being unable to get back home as they were also shocked on their return. The cow elecrtocutor may have similar problems if cows find it difficult to associate location with pain in the nose. The situation may be worse if the cows response is to run around a lot. Dr Jonathan Cooper Animal Behaviour Cognition and Welfare Group, School of Agriculture, Faculty of Applied Sciences, De Montfort University. Caythorpe Court, Caythorpe, Lincolnshire, UK. NG32 3EP Tel 01400 275678. Fax 01400 275686. Email jjcooper@dmu.ac.uk http://www.dmu.ac.uk/ln/Agriculture/staffcvs/Dr.JonathanJCooper.htm > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Sherwin [SMTP:chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk] > Sent: 07 February 2001 09:43 > To: Petherick, Carol (TBC) > Cc: 'ethology' > Subject: Re: Devices for controlling cattle movements > > > > > Carol, > > Some years ago I was involved in a project in Australia where we looked at > > the use of sound beams as a form of cattle fence. The intention was that > the animals would find the sound beams aversive and wouldn't walk through > them. Unfortunately, although the sound beams caused an alerting > response, > they would not stop cattle walking through the intended area of > containment. One problem is the massive amounts of enery needed to > propagate ultrasound over any distance - unless each animal wears its own > transmitter. Somewhat relatedly, I was also involved in a PROPOSED > project > that to stop bulls fighting, each should be fitted with a head pad that > adminsitered an electric shock when the bulls started butting each other. > > I recommended we shouldn't be involved in the project, at least partly > because it was my belief this would only intensify any aggression between > bulls of similar fighting ability. > > Regards > > Chris > > > > On Wed, 07 Feb 2001 08:27:05 +1000 "Petherick, Carol (TBC)" > wrote: > > > All > > Has anybody had experience of devices that supposedly control where > cattle > > move and graze? - no, not fences! A system was reported on one of our > TV > > news programs that involves electrodes fitted inside the nostrils of > cattle > > and when the cattle stray outside a certain area they are given a shock. > > That's about all that was reported - no details, or even whether it > works > > or > > not. I know people were playing around with such concepts in the late > 60s > > and early 70s, but I'd heard no more about them until this development. > > Needless to say this has sparked a spate of enquiries, and I'm at a bit > of > > a > > loss. One producer even mentioned the use of ultrasound devices > > (presumably > > to act as a negative reinforcer). Anybody able to help - either with > some > > experience of these devices, or gut-feelings about their potential > > usefulness or potential harm? > > Thanks. > > Carol > > > > Carol > > > > "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the > way > > its animals are treated." > > Mahatma Gandhi > > > > Carol Petherick > > Senior Scientist (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) > > Queensland Beef Industry Institute > > Tropical Beef Centre > > PO Box 5545 > > Central Qld Mail Centre > > Rockhampton > > Qld 4702 > > Australia > > > > email: petherc@dpi.qld.gov.au > > tel: (0)7 4923 8200 > > fax: (0)7 4923 8222 > > > > > > ********************************DISCLAIMER**************************** > > The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages > > (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally > > privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity > > to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of > > disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken > > or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions > > contained in the message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions > > of the Queensland Government and its authorities. If you received > > this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and > > delete it from your computer system network. > > > > ---------------------- > Dr. C.M. Sherwin > Research Fellow (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) > Division of Animal Health and Husbandry > University of Bristol Phone: (0117) 928 9486 > Langford House Fax: (0117) 928 > 9582 > Langford > Bristol E-mail: chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk > BS40 5DU > From: IN%"Andreas.Briese@tiho-hannover.de" "Andreas Briese" 7-FEB-2001 07:54:07.37 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Devices for controlling cattle movements From: Self To: Jonathan Cooper Subject: RE: Devices for controlling cattle movements Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:50:12 +100 Hallo Jonathan, Hi Chris excuse me, but why would anybody like to have some "invisible" device or nose banging utility for cattle? I would suggest fences do have also a use to keep others out, i.e. dogs or persons, don't they? Andreas > Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 12:24:04 +0000 > From: Jonathan Cooper > Subject: RE: Devices for controlling cattle movements > To: 'Chris Sherwin' , > "Petherick, Carol (TBC)" > Cc: 'ethology' > Hi > Something similar sounding has been developed to prevent dogs from "roaming" > called "an invisible fence" which involved dogs receiving an electric shock > if they passed a line buried in the ground. This and other novel forms of > controlling dogs (e.g. electro-shock collarrs) were discussed at the > Companion Animal Behaviour Study Groups conferance in Birmingham (UK) in > 1997. The concern with the invisible fence was that the animal may find it > harder to associate the locality with painful consequences than conventional > electric fences or barbed wire. There were also stories of dogs running the > fence, then being unable to get back home as they were also shocked on their > return. > > The cow elecrtocutor may have similar problems if cows find it difficult to > associate location with pain in the nose. The situation may be worse if the > cows response is to run around a lot. > > Dr Jonathan Cooper > Animal Behaviour Cognition and Welfare Group, School of Agriculture, Faculty > of Applied Sciences, De Montfort University. > Caythorpe Court, Caythorpe, Lincolnshire, UK. NG32 3EP > Tel 01400 275678. Fax 01400 275686. Email jjcooper@dmu.ac.uk > http://www.dmu.ac.uk/ln/Agriculture/staffcvs/Dr.JonathanJCooper.htm > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Chris Sherwin [SMTP:chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk] > > Sent: 07 February 2001 09:43 > > To: Petherick, Carol (TBC) > > Cc: 'ethology' > > Subject: Re: Devices for controlling cattle movements > > > > > > > > > > Carol, > > > > Some years ago I was involved in a project in Australia where we looked at > > > > the use of sound beams as a form of cattle fence. The intention was that > > the animals would find the sound beams aversive and wouldn't walk through > > them. Unfortunately, although the sound beams caused an alerting > > response, > > they would not stop cattle walking through the intended area of > > containment. One problem is the massive amounts of enery needed to > > propagate ultrasound over any distance - unless each animal wears its own > > transmitter. Somewhat relatedly, I was also involved in a PROPOSED > > project > > that to stop bulls fighting, each should be fitted with a head pad that > > adminsitered an electric shock when the bulls started butting each other. > > > > I recommended we shouldn't be involved in the project, at least partly > > because it was my belief this would only intensify any aggression between > > bulls of similar fighting ability. > > > > Regards > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > On Wed, 07 Feb 2001 08:27:05 +1000 "Petherick, Carol (TBC)" > > wrote: > > > > > All > > > Has anybody had experience of devices that supposedly control where > > cattle > > > move and graze? - no, not fences! A system was reported on one of our > > TV > > > news programs that involves electrodes fitted inside the nostrils of > > cattle > > > and when the cattle stray outside a certain area they are given a shock. > > > That's about all that was reported - no details, or even whether it > > works > > > or > > > not. I know people were playing around with such concepts in the late > > 60s > > > and early 70s, but I'd heard no more about them until this development. > > > Needless to say this has sparked a spate of enquiries, and I'm at a bit > > of > > > a > > > loss. One producer even mentioned the use of ultrasound devices > > > (presumably > > > to act as a negative reinforcer). Anybody able to help - either with > > some > > > experience of these devices, or gut-feelings about their potential > > > usefulness or potential harm? > > > Thanks. > > > Carol > > > > > > Carol > > > > > > "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the > > way > > > its animals are treated." > > > Mahatma Gandhi > > > > > > Carol Petherick > > > Senior Scientist (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) > > > Queensland Beef Industry Institute > > > Tropical Beef Centre > > > PO Box 5545 > > > Central Qld Mail Centre > > > Rockhampton > > > Qld 4702 > > > Australia > > > > > > email: petherc@dpi.qld.gov.au > > > tel: (0)7 4923 8200 > > > fax: (0)7 4923 8222 > > > > > > > > > ********************************DISCLAIMER**************************** > > > The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages > > > (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally > > > privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity > > > to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of > > > disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken > > > or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions > > > contained in the message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions > > > of the Queensland Government and its authorities. If you received > > > this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and > > > delete it from your computer system network. > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > Dr. C.M. Sherwin > > Research Fellow (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) > > Division of Animal Health and Husbandry > > University of Bristol Phone: (0117) 928 9486 > > Langford House Fax: (0117) 928 > > 9582 > > Langford > > Bristol E-mail: chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk > > BS40 5DU > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Institut for animal hygiene and welfare Veterinary School Hannover Dr. med. vet. Andreas Briese Buenteweg 17p 30559 Hannover Tel.: (0511) 953-8836 (0511) 120 2102 Fax.: (0511) 953-8588 (0511) 120 99 2102 e-mail: Andreas.Briese@tiho-hannover.de (bigger Attachments): Andreas_Briese@animcare-sci.de ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: IN%"rita_adonis@email.com" "Ana Rita Adonis" 7-FEB-2001 09:41:12.28 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Dear All, I am a first-year student at Edge Hill College and would like to know if any of you would be able to help me with contacts on work experience in the area of ethology. Cheers! Rita ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com From: IN%"chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "Chris Sherwin" 7-FEB-2001 10:55:51.51 To: IN%"Andreas.Briese@tiho-hannover.de" "Andreas Briese" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Devices for controlling cattle movements Dear Andreas, The invisible sound fence was intended to be highly portable (like a strip-grazing electric fence) and cheap (the cost of fencing in Australia is very great due to the large spaces and sizes of paddocks). The issues of dogs and people entering paddocks in the outback are not really of any great consequence. The head-plate electric shocker was intended by the customer to reduce agression between bulls/bullocks; these tend to fight considerably and damage each other or females that get in their way. Chris On Wed, 07 Feb 2001 14:53:12 +0100 Andreas Briese wrote: > > From: Self > To: Jonathan Cooper > Subject: RE: Devices for controlling cattle movements > Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:50:12 +100 > > Hallo Jonathan, Hi Chris > > excuse me, but why would anybody like to have some "invisible" > device or nose banging utility for cattle? > I would suggest fences do have also a use to > keep others out, i.e. dogs or persons, don't they? > > Andreas > > > > > > Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 12:24:04 +0000 > > From: Jonathan Cooper > > Subject: RE: Devices for controlling cattle movements > > To: 'Chris Sherwin' , > > "Petherick, Carol (TBC)" > > Cc: 'ethology' > > > Hi > > Something similar sounding has been developed to prevent dogs from > "roaming" > > called "an invisible fence" which involved dogs receiving an electric > shock > > if they passed a line buried in the ground. This and other novel forms of > > controlling dogs (e.g. electro-shock collarrs) were discussed at the > > Companion Animal Behaviour Study Groups conferance in Birmingham (UK) in > > 1997. The concern with the invisible fence was that the animal may find > it > > harder to associate the locality with painful consequences than > conventional > > electric fences or barbed wire. There were also stories of dogs running > the > > fence, then being unable to get back home as they were also shocked on > their > > return. > > > > The cow elecrtocutor may have similar problems if cows find it difficult > to > > associate location with pain in the nose. The situation may be worse if > the > > cows response is to run around a lot. > > > > Dr Jonathan Cooper > > Animal Behaviour Cognition and Welfare Group, School of Agriculture, > Faculty > > of Applied Sciences, De Montfort University. > > Caythorpe Court, Caythorpe, Lincolnshire, UK. NG32 3EP > > Tel 01400 275678. Fax 01400 275686. Email jjcooper@dmu.ac.uk > > http://www.dmu.ac.uk/ln/Agriculture/staffcvs/Dr.JonathanJCooper.htm > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Chris Sherwin [SMTP:chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk] > > > Sent: 07 February 2001 09:43 > > > To: Petherick, Carol (TBC) > > > Cc: 'ethology' > > > Subject: Re: Devices for controlling cattle movements > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Carol, > > > > > > Some years ago I was involved in a project in Australia where we looked > at > > > > > > the use of sound beams as a form of cattle fence. The intention was > that > > > the animals would find the sound beams aversive and wouldn't walk > through > > > them. Unfortunately, although the sound beams caused an alerting > > > response, > > > they would not stop cattle walking through the intended area of > > > containment. One problem is the massive amounts of enery needed to > > > propagate ultrasound over any distance - unless each animal wears its > own > > > transmitter. Somewhat relatedly, I was also involved in a PROPOSED > > > project > > > that to stop bulls fighting, each should be fitted with a head pad that > > > > adminsitered an electric shock when the bulls started butting each > other. > > > > > > I recommended we shouldn't be involved in the project, at least partly > > > because it was my belief this would only intensify any aggression > between > > > bulls of similar fighting ability. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 07 Feb 2001 08:27:05 +1000 "Petherick, Carol (TBC)" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > All > > > > Has anybody had experience of devices that supposedly control where > > > cattle > > > > move and graze? - no, not fences! A system was reported on one of > our > > > TV > > > > news programs that involves electrodes fitted inside the nostrils of > > > cattle > > > > and when the cattle stray outside a certain area they are given a > shock. > > > > That's about all that was reported - no details, or even whether it > > > works > > > > or > > > > not. I know people were playing around with such concepts in the > late > > > 60s > > > > and early 70s, but I'd heard no more about them until this > development. > > > > Needless to say this has sparked a spate of enquiries, and I'm at a > bit > > > of > > > > a > > > > loss. One producer even mentioned the use of ultrasound devices > > > > (presumably > > > > to act as a negative reinforcer). Anybody able to help - either with > > > some > > > > experience of these devices, or gut-feelings about their potential > > > > usefulness or potential harm? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Carol > > > > > > > > Carol > > > > > > > > "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by > the > > > way > > > > its animals are treated." > > > > Mahatma Gandhi > > > > > > > > Carol Petherick > > > > Senior Scientist (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) > > > > Queensland Beef Industry Institute > > > > Tropical Beef Centre > > > > PO Box 5545 > > > > Central Qld Mail Centre > > > > Rockhampton > > > > Qld 4702 > > > > Australia > > > > > > > > email: petherc@dpi.qld.gov.au > > > > tel: (0)7 4923 8200 > > > > fax: (0)7 4923 8222 > > > > > > > > > > > > > ********************************DISCLAIMER**************************** > > > > The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages > > > > (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally > > > > privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity > > > > to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of > > > > disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken > > > > or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions > > > > contained in the message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions > > > > of the Queensland Government and its authorities. If you received > > > > this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and > > > > > delete it from your computer system network. > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > Dr. C.M. Sherwin > > > Research Fellow (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) > > > Division of Animal Health and Husbandry > > > University of Bristol Phone: (0117) 928 > 9486 > > > Langford House Fax: (0117) 928 > > > 9582 > > > Langford > > > Bristol E-mail: chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk > > > BS40 5DU > > > > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Institut for animal hygiene and welfare > Veterinary School Hannover > Dr. med. vet. Andreas Briese > > Buenteweg 17p > 30559 Hannover > > Tel.: (0511) 953-8836 > (0511) 120 2102 > Fax.: (0511) 953-8588 > (0511) 120 99 2102 > e-mail: Andreas.Briese@tiho-hannover.de > (bigger Attachments): Andreas_Briese@animcare-sci.de > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > ---------------------- Dr. C.M. Sherwin Research Fellow (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Division of Animal Health and Husbandry University of Bristol Phone: (0117) 928 9486 Langford House Fax: (0117) 928 9582 Langford Bristol E-mail: chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk BS40 5DU From: IN%"Rexxie1@aol.com" 7-FEB-2001 15:42:04.25 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: cow welfare and BSE --Boundary_(ID_n3AtCYd2hdErOB+zwRCZbw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT To the network: I have seen a lot of references to studies and reports about impacts of BSE on the food supply and human health, but I am wondering if anyone has or knows of published research regarding the effects of BSE on the welfare of cows who get the disease? Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. Marlene Halverson --Boundary_(ID_n3AtCYd2hdErOB+zwRCZbw) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII To the network:

I have seen a lot of references to studies and reports about impacts of BSE
on the food supply and human health, but I am wondering if anyone has or
knows of published research regarding the effects of BSE on the welfare of
cows who get the disease?

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

Marlene Halverson --Boundary_(ID_n3AtCYd2hdErOB+zwRCZbw)-- From: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol (TBC)" 7-FEB-2001 16:12:34.20 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'ethology'" CC: Subj: Cattle control devices Thanks to all who responded to this. It seems that there's quite a bit going on in this area. I'll try to make contact with the people suggested. Indeed, the system I mentioned has actually been developed in Australia (it was also mention in New Scientist a few weeks back), but I've been unable to discover where and by whom in Australia. Guess I'll keep searching. I guess the philosophy behind it is that fences are costly to put up and maintain (and fencing is a job that is not too popular!), especially if you're talking 1000s of km of them. Most fences here are 3 or 4-strand barbed wire, so they do nothing for preventing entry by people or dogs. Also, as Chris indicated, there's a lot of interest in so-called "cell-grazing" here, where cattle are densely stocked on relatively small areas of pasture, but are kept there only for 1 or 2 days before being moved to the next cell (or strip). Pasture use is much more efficient (you don't get areas that are over-grazed and others that are under-grazed) and there is evidence that cattle weight gains are superior in this type of system. However, the costs of fencing are very high. I also had concerns about the ability of cattle to learn 'place' if the boundaries were unmarked and also, if marked, and the cattle did learn 'place', how difficult it would be then to move them through that boundary if you wanted to. Thanks for your input. Carol "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." Mahatma Gandhi Carol Petherick Senior Scientist (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Queensland Beef Industry Institute Tropical Beef Centre PO Box 5545 Central Qld Mail Centre Rockhampton Qld 4702 Australia email: petherc@dpi.qld.gov.au tel: (0)7 4923 8200 fax: (0)7 4923 8222 ********************************DISCLAIMER**************************** The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions contained in the message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Queensland Government and its authorities. If you received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your computer system network. From: IN%"supereeyore@hotmail.com" "Eddie Fernandez" 7-FEB-2001 18:27:59.41 To: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Devices for controlling cattle movements Carol, I'm not familiar with any specific applied data or publications on the subject, but I see no reason why similar positive reinforcement procedures would not work as well, if not better. One instance where differential reinforcement procedures are used to restrict what animals eat is in the sport of falconry. Wild captured birds are 'entered' on only specific species of animals, so that they do not eat non-desired game in the field, such as mice. The procedures are so successful, I've heard of hawks and falcons that would completely ignore mice in the field as potential prey! AND, no aversives are used in entering procedures. On a similar note, I'm especially interested in such techniques to restrict what different species of animals eat and/or go for conservation efforts. Our natural reserves and land across the world are dwindling, and that means less room for all the species living within those environments. I'm looking for a Ph.D. program that would allow me to directly study such possibilities, (I'm just finishing my masters in a behavior analysis program). I'd be especially interested in any information you find, especially those that involve non-aversive operant principles. Thanks, Eddie F... >From: "Petherick, Carol (TBC)" >To: 'ethology' >Subject: Devices for controlling cattle movements >Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 08:27:05 +1000 > >All >Has anybody had experience of devices that supposedly control where cattle >move and graze? - no, not fences! A system was reported on one of our TV >news programs that involves electrodes fitted inside the nostrils of cattle >and when the cattle stray outside a certain area they are given a shock. >That's about all that was reported - no details, or even whether it works >or >not. I know people were playing around with such concepts in the late 60s >and early 70s, but I'd heard no more about them until this development. >Needless to say this has sparked a spate of enquiries, and I'm at a bit of >a >loss. One producer even mentioned the use of ultrasound devices >(presumably >to act as a negative reinforcer). Anybody able to help - either with some >experience of these devices, or gut-feelings about their potential >usefulness or potential harm? >Thanks. >Carol > >Carol > >"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way >its animals are treated." >Mahatma Gandhi > >Carol Petherick >Senior Scientist (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) >Queensland Beef Industry Institute >Tropical Beef Centre >PO Box 5545 >Central Qld Mail Centre >Rockhampton >Qld 4702 >Australia > >email: petherc@dpi.qld.gov.au >tel: (0)7 4923 8200 >fax: (0)7 4923 8222 > > >********************************DISCLAIMER**************************** >The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages >(which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally >privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity >to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of >disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken >or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions >contained in the message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions >of the Queensland Government and its authorities. If you received >this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and >delete it from your computer system network. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From: IN%"katmiller@ucdavis.edu" "Katherine Ann Miller" 8-FEB-2001 00:04:12.84 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: enrichment bibliography --Boundary_(ID_T8XDNz6z2s1rvrrd76GMhQ) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi everyone, Thanks so much to everyone that replied with suggestions of review articles on the effects of enrichment on development. Several people asked that I post the resulting bibliography, so here it is. Thanks again! van Praag, H., Kempermann, G. and Gage, F. H. (2000) Neural consequences of environmental enrichment. Nature Reviews Neuroscience, 1: 191-198. Carlstead, K. and Shepherdson, D., 1994. The effects of environmental enrichment on reproduction of zoo animals. Zoo Biology, 13:447-458. Carlstead, K., 1998. Effects of Captivity on the Behavior of Wild Mammals. In "Wild Mammals in Captivity: Techniques and Principles", D.G. Kleiman, M.E. Allen, K.V. Thompson, and S. Lumpkin, eds. University of Chicago Press, Chicago. Pp 317-333. Renner, M.J. and Rosenzweig, M.R., 1986. Object interactions in juvenile rats (Rattus norwegicus): Effects of different experiential histories. J. Comp. Psych. 100:229-236. Renner, M.J. and Rosenzweig, M.R., 1987. Enriched and Impoverished Environments: Effects on Brain and Behavior. Springer-Verlag, New York. (Plus other papers by Renner & Rosenzweig) Newberry, R.C. 1995. Environmental enrichment: increasing the biological relevance of captive environments. Applied Animal Behaviour Science 44:229-244. Newberry, R.C. 1999. Exploratory behaviour of young domestic fowl. Applied Animal Behaviour Science 63:311-321. Yours, Katherine Miller ********************************************* Katherine Miller Animal Behavior Graduate Group Animal Science Dept. UC Davis ********************************************* --Boundary_(ID_T8XDNz6z2s1rvrrd76GMhQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi everyone,

Thanks so much to everyone that replied with suggestions of review articles on the effects of enrichment on development.  Several people asked that I post the resulting bibliography, so here it is.  Thanks again!

van Praag, H., Kempermann, G. and Gage, F. H. (2000) Neural consequences of
environmental enrichment. Nature Reviews Neuroscience, 1: 191-198.

Carlstead, K. and Shepherdson, D., 1994. The effects of environmental
enrichment on reproduction of zoo animals. Zoo Biology, 13:447-458.

Carlstead, K., 1998. Effects of Captivity on the Behavior of Wild Mammals.
In "Wild Mammals in Captivity: Techniques and Principles", D.G. Kleiman,
M.E. Allen, K.V. Thompson, and S. Lumpkin, eds. University of Chicago
Press, Chicago. Pp 317-333.

Renner, M.J. and Rosenzweig, M.R., 1986. Object interactions in juvenile
rats (Rattus norwegicus): Effects of different experiential histories. J.
Comp. Psych. 100:229-236.

Renner, M.J. and Rosenzweig, M.R., 1987. Enriched and Impoverished
Environments: Effects on Brain and Behavior. Springer-Verlag, New York.

(Plus other papers by Renner & Rosenzweig)

Newberry, R.C. 1995. Environmental enrichment: increasing the biological
relevance of captive environments. Applied Animal Behaviour Science
44:229-244.

Newberry, R.C. 1999. Exploratory behaviour of young domestic fowl.
Applied Animal Behaviour Science 63:311-321.



Yours,
Katherine Miller







*********************************************
Katherine Miller
Animal Behavior Graduate Group
Animal Science Dept.
UC Davis
*********************************************
 --Boundary_(ID_T8XDNz6z2s1rvrrd76GMhQ)-- From: IN%"pajor@purdue.edu" "Edmond Pajor" 8-FEB-2001 06:53:54.19 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: sow tethers Greetings all Does anyone recall publications which compare neck tethers to girth tethers for gestating sows? Thanks Ed Ed Pajor, Ph.D Assistant Professor Animal Behavior and Welfare Department of Animal Sciences Purdue University 1026 Poultry Building., Room 207 West Lafayette, IN-1026 47907 Phone: 765-496-6665 Fax: 765-494-9347 E-mail: pajor@purdue.edu From: IN%"rondog@btinternet.com" "Jon Bowen" 8-FEB-2001 11:00:26.92 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied ethology" CC: Subj: RE: cow welfare and BSE This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_nt7TRK2CDCMp3zFOMm+IVw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT In the end the impact on welfare is obviously negative. Death is the ultimate endpoint with BSE and no production animal should be maintained in an environment in which death would be preferable to continued healthy living. It would presumably be quite hard to quantify the level of suffering of cattle whilst affected by this disease just as it would be to do this in a human patient. Most humans with BSE become mentally impaired or insensible quite rapidly so who knows what experiences they are having. I am not sure what benefit would come from knowing this information anyway...all research costs money and surely this should be spent on understanding the disease, its prevention and treament? Perhaps your point is related to the relative interest in the suffering of people vs.animals? In the UK the suffering of the large number of cattle with BSE was a major part of news coverage [to begin with]. People were very upset indeed, and this was before the risks to people were very well understood. There were threats that millions of cattle would have to be slaugtered and buried. If you are in the USA then coverage is probably quite different. I think the emphasis on human suffering has increased as more people have been afflicted by nvCJD. As numbers of people afflicted has risen the number of cattle has fallen. This has certainly shifted the balance of news coverage, but only because people have an understandable preoccupation with their own health and welfare when it is threatened. Jon --Boundary_(ID_nt7TRK2CDCMp3zFOMm+IVw) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
In the end the impact on welfare is obviously negative.
Death is the ultimate endpoint with BSE and no production animal should be maintained in an environment in which death would be preferable to continued healthy living.
 
It would presumably be quite hard to quantify the level of suffering of cattle whilst affected by this disease just as it would be to do this in a human patient.
Most humans with BSE become mentally impaired or insensible quite rapidly so who knows what experiences they are having.
 
I am not sure what benefit would come from knowing this information anyway...all research costs money and surely this should be spent on understanding the disease, its prevention and treament?
 
Perhaps your point is related to the relative interest in the suffering of people vs.animals?
 
In the UK the suffering of the large number of cattle with BSE was a major part of news coverage [to begin with].
People were very upset indeed, and this was before the risks to people were very well understood.
There were threats that millions of cattle would have to be slaugtered and buried.
 
If you are in the USA then coverage is probably quite different.
 
I think the emphasis on human suffering has increased as more people have been afflicted by nvCJD.
As numbers of people afflicted has risen the number of cattle has fallen.
This has certainly shifted the balance of news coverage, but only because people have an understandable preoccupation with their own health and welfare when it is threatened.
 
Jon
 
 
--Boundary_(ID_nt7TRK2CDCMp3zFOMm+IVw)-- From: IN%"LEVRINO@posta.unizar.es" "GUSTAVO MARIA LEVRINO" 8-FEB-2001 12:40:03.42 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: cow welfare and BSE Dear All: I think that the main welfare problem with BSE is for no-bse cows. How many cows will die because just 1 cow in the farm shows the syntoms of the desease.. 100?...200?...1000?...1 million?...just because some humans wanna a get more and more money. Or just because some countries export (and some others import) the disease all around the world. No body take care about that. More research is needed to develop reliable BSE live tests to avoid healthy cows dying just because human avarice. =20 Have a nice day... Gustavo A. Mar=EDa Levrino Profesor Titular de Universidad Departamento de Producci=F3n Animal y Ciencia de los Alimentos Facultad de Veterinaria Universidad de Zaragoza Miguel Servet 177 (50013) Zaragoza Espa=F1a - Spain Tel=E9fono: 34 976 762490 Fax: 34 976 761612 y 34 976 761590 e-mail: levrino@posta.unizar.es From: IN%"Rexxie1@aol.com" 8-FEB-2001 13:19:11.43 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Cows --Boundary_(ID_sLUhjqTV3S/heaZQnSwFOA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thanks to those who responded to my question re cow welfare and bse. It is obvious, of course, that welfare of an infected cow is poor but how it is affected is what I was getting at. Regarding something different, this may be of interest to some: Dazed cows wander aimlessly in quake-hit India By Sunil Kataria BHACHAU, India, Feb 8 (Reuters) - Thousands of traumatised cows have been wandering around in a daze in a cow shelter in quake-hit western India since the devastating tremors ripped through the region two weeks ago. The animals have been gripped by panic because of a series of aftershocks in Gujarat, known for its hugely successful dairy farming business, after the massive quake struck on January 26, an animal rights activist said late on Wednesday. "They have been in a constant rotary movement. About 3,000-4,000 are just constantly walking around," Kalpana Patel of the Vadodara Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, said in Bhachau, one of the worst-hit areas. "They are not going anywhere," she added. Gujarat is known for what is described as India's White Revolution because of a successful dairy cooperative which has made the state one of the country's largest milk producers. Patel said the aimless movement suggested the animals were highly stressed after the country's worst natural disaster which killed at least 30,000 people, left tens of thousands homeless and flattened buildings across the region. "They are in some kind of agony, they are upset, they are uneasy, you can make out that from their behaviour," she said. Activists said veterinarian doctors were treating many injured cows in the cow shelter in Bhachau, which lies close to the epicentre of the quake. Villagers, many of whom depend on the cows for their livelihood, said they were also grappling with the enormous task of finding fodder for surviving animals and burning cattle carcasses pulled out from under the rubble. 04:24 02-08-01 --Boundary_(ID_sLUhjqTV3S/heaZQnSwFOA) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Thanks to those who responded to my question re cow welfare and bse.  It is
obvious, of course, that welfare of an infected cow is poor but how it is
affected is what I was getting at.

Regarding something different, this may be of interest to some:


Dazed cows wander aimlessly in quake-hit India

By Sunil Kataria


BHACHAU, India, Feb 8 (Reuters) - Thousands of traumatised cows have been
wandering around in a daze in a cow shelter in quake-hit western India since
the devastating tremors ripped through the region two weeks ago.

The animals have been gripped by panic because of a series of aftershocks in
Gujarat, known for its hugely successful dairy farming business, after the
massive quake struck on January 26, an animal rights activist said late on
Wednesday.

"They have been in a constant rotary movement. About 3,000-4,000 are just
constantly walking around," Kalpana Patel of the Vadodara Society for
Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, said in Bhachau, one of the worst-hit
areas.

"They are not going anywhere," she added.

Gujarat is known for what is described as India's White Revolution because of
a successful dairy cooperative which has made the state one of the country's
largest milk producers.

Patel said the aimless movement suggested the animals were highly stressed
after the country's worst natural disaster which killed at least 30,000
people, left tens of thousands homeless and flattened buildings across the
region.

"They are in some kind of agony, they are upset, they are uneasy, you can
make out that from their behaviour," she said.

Activists said veterinarian doctors were treating many injured cows in the
cow shelter in Bhachau, which lies close to the epicentre of the quake.

Villagers, many of whom depend on the cows for their livelihood, said they
were also grappling with the enormous task of finding fodder for surviving
animals and burning cattle carcasses pulled out from under the rubble.

04:24 02-08-01
       --Boundary_(ID_sLUhjqTV3S/heaZQnSwFOA)-- From: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol (TBC)" 8-FEB-2001 16:08:47.41 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'ethology'" CC: Subj: RE: cow welfare and BSE Both Jon and Gustavo referred to the death of cows, either healthy ones (non BSE) or saying "no production animal should be maintained in an environment in which death would be preferable to continued healthy living". Surely most of our production systems are solely concerned with making money through the death of healthy animals! Death (slaughter) is not a welfare issue provided it is carried out quickly, humanely and with minimal (or preferably, no) pain and suffering. The welfare issues relate to all those aspects that come before death. In the case of healthy non-BSE cows it would be what happens during handling, transportation, lairage etc. In the case of BSE afflicted animals, who knows what they are experiencing, but they should be given the benefit of the doubt and treated with the same care and consideration that should be given to all animals prior to slaughter. Carol "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." Mahatma Gandhi Carol Petherick Senior Scientist (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Queensland Beef Industry Institute Tropical Beef Centre PO Box 5545 Central Qld Mail Centre Rockhampton Qld 4702 Australia email: petherc@dpi.qld.gov.au tel: (0)7 4923 8200 fax: (0)7 4923 8222 ********************************DISCLAIMER**************************** The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions contained in the message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Queensland Government and its authorities. If you received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your computer system network. From: IN%"rondog@btinternet.com" "Jon Bowen" 9-FEB-2001 04:10:14.64 To: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol (TBC)", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'ethology'" CC: Subj: RE: cow welfare and BSE This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_cSZ59paVscd26N72JKA2lw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Both Jon and Gustavo referred to the death of cows, either healthy ones (non > BSE) or saying "no production animal should be maintained in an environment > in which death would be preferable to continued healthy living". > Surely most of our production systems are solely concerned with making money > through the death of healthy animals! > Death (slaughter) is not a welfare issue provided it is carried out quickly, humanely and with minimal (or preferably), no pain and suffering. I think you have misread the comment I made and twisted the meaning somewhat. In the UK many of the affected animals were milk producers rather than beef. OK, they all and up as food in the end but milk cows have a much longer lifespan. That BSE afflicted cow might have continued to exist for several years in a healthy state within an excellent system of husbandry, so killing it in whatever humane manner represents a reduction in its welfare. I accept that death is a consequence of production. I accept that if animals are transported carefully and killed in an appropriate manner then suffering associated with death can be minimised. However, curtailment of healthy life is a welfare issue especially where that relates to affliction with a man-made disease. I think your remarks are outrageous!!! Jon . --Boundary_(ID_cSZ59paVscd26N72JKA2lw) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1

> Both Jon and Gustavo referred to the death of cows, either healthy ones (non
> BSE) or saying "no production animal should be maintained in an environment
> in which death would be preferable to continued healthy living". 
> Surely most of our production systems are solely concerned with making money
> through the death of healthy animals! 
> Death (slaughter) is not a welfare issue provided it is carried out quickly, humanely and with minimal (or preferably), no pain and suffering. 
 
 
I think you have misread the comment I made and twisted the meaning somewhat.
 
In the UK many of the affected animals were milk producers rather than beef.
OK, they all and up as food in the end but milk cows have a much longer lifespan.
That BSE afflicted cow might have continued to exist for several years in a healthy state within an excellent system of husbandry, so killing it in whatever humane manner represents a reduction in its welfare.
 
I accept that death is a consequence of production.
I accept that if animals are transported carefully and killed in an appropriate manner then suffering associated with death can be minimised.
 
However, curtailment of healthy life is a welfare issue especially where that relates to affliction with a man-made disease.
I think your remarks are outrageous!!!
 
Jon
 
.
--Boundary_(ID_cSZ59paVscd26N72JKA2lw)-- From: IN%"Andreas.Briese@tiho-hannover.de" "Andreas Briese" 9-FEB-2001 05:43:37.77 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Breaking News about whale culling IWC CONSIDERS RESUMING COMMERCIAL WHALE HUNT MONACO, February 8, 2001 (ENS) - After a 15 year moratorium, commercial whaling could resume under a scheme being considered by the the International Whaling Commission at its inter-sessional meeting in Monaco this week. For full text and graphics, visit: http://ens.lycos.com/ens/feb2001/2001L-02-08-10.html ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Institut fuer Tierhygiene und Tierschutz Tieraerztliche Hochschule Hannover Institute of Animal Hygiene and Welfare School of Veterinary Medicine Hannover Dr. med. vet. Andreas Briese Buenteweg 17p 30559 Hannover Tel.: (0511) 953-8837 (0511) 120 2102 Fax.: (0511) 953-8588 (0511) 120 99 2102 e-mail: Andreas.Briese@tiho-hannover.de alternativ (grosse Attachments): Andreas_Briese@animcare-sci.de ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From: IN%"h.toner@Queens-Belfast.ac.uk" "Helen toner" 9-FEB-2001 08:27:27.52 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Does anyone know anything about horses?! Sender: H.Toner@Queens-Belfast.ac.uk To: Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Hi, I previously sent in a request but am not sure if it actually worked or if it was simply the case that no one was able to help!! I would just like to ask again, does any one know of any recent work that has been done on communication/ signalling in horses, body language etc. Also does anyone know of any work done on the behaviour of the ridden horse? THe majority of work appears to be either on feral horses or horses in stables, not on when they are ridden/ being handled from the ground!!! What about simple methods of analysing gait/ centre of gravity in the moving horse? Just in case my previous request was never sent, I had better let you know who I am... I am doing a PhD in equine welfare at Queens University Belfast Thankyou!! I would really appreciate ANY information, no matter how vague!!! Helen Toner School of Psychology Queens University Belfast Northern Ireland ---------------------- Helen toner --- End Forwarded Message --- ---------------------- Helen toner From: IN%"mappleby@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk" "Mike Appleby" 9-FEB-2001 11:56:44.08 To: IN%"applied-ethology@usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: cow welfare and BSE Dear Jon, Carol, Gustavo et al Incidentally, Carol, does the TBC after your name stand for To Be Confirmed, and if so Why? Tempers quickly get roused on issues such as slaughter and it is important (a) to be clear about the issues involved and (b) to recognise that different people approach issues in different ways, including using language in different ways. So Carol says that > Death (slaughter) is not a welfare issue provided it is carried out > quickly, humanely and with minimal (or preferably), no pain and > suffering. whereas Jon says > curtailment of healthy life is a welfare issue especially where that > relates to affliction with a man-made disease. I would agree with Carol on this one, Jon, at least as regards non- primates, and my guess is that so would most other people. I think that 'welfare' concerns the state of animals while they are alive, and that death is only relevant in animals that can contemplate the future (which will include some primates). (One other relevant factor is the effect of an individual's death on the welfare of other individuals, which again is more important in primates than in other species, but we're not really talking about that here). Killing is certainly an issue that needs ethical consideration, but in my view it is separate from welfare. So before you get cross with Carol, Jon, you should think about whether you are using similar words in different ways. To return to (a), I think the issues of suffering caused by BSE, and humane slaughter, are separate - even if the latter involves healthy animals being slaughtered because they have a herdmate with BSE. In terms of welfare (as I use the term), the latter are no different from animals being slaughtered for meat, although other ethical considerations are certainly different. And talking of being clear on the issues involved, I don't understand Gustavo's point: > I think that the main welfare problem with BSE is for no-bse cows. How many > cows will die because just 1 cow in the farm shows the syntoms of the > desease.. 100?...200?...1000?...1 million?...just because some humans wanna > a get more and more money. Or just because some countries export (and some > others import) the disease all around the world. No body take care about > that. More research is needed to develop reliable BSE live tests to avoid > healthy cows dying just because human avarice. Culling of healthy herdmates of BSE cows isn't caused by avarice (unless you mean it is a long-term consequence of attempts to find cheap ways to feed cows). On the contrary, it costs a lot of money. It is done to stop the spread of the disease either to other cows or to humans. Best wishes Mike Michael Appleby Dr M.C. Appleby Director of Postgraduate Studies in Agriculture & Resource Economics Institute of Ecology and Resource Management University of Edinburgh West Mains Road Edinburgh EH9 3JG, UK Tel. +44 131 535 4098 Fax. +44 131 667 2601 Email michael.appleby@ed.ac.uk From: IN%"rondog@btinternet.com" "Jon Bowen" 9-FEB-2001 12:42:56.79 To: IN%"applied-ethology@usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: cow welfare and BSE Hi, points by Mike taken to heart, now feeling suitably remorseful over outburst! Jon From: IN%"haleyderek@hotmail.com" "Derek Haley" 9-FEB-2001 17:44:38.88 To: IN%"applied-ethology@usask.ca" CC: Subj: Animals contemplating their future AEars / AEyes, Mike Appleby wrote: << I think that 'welfare' concerns the state of animals while they are alive, and that death is only relevant in animals that can contemplate the future (which will include some primates). >> I agree with him. Now, what I'm interested in are scientific references that Mike and others consider to provide the strongest evidence of animals' ability to contemplate their future. These would be handy references to have! I suspect there are some and I'm very interested in this topic but do not have enough time, or energy, or money, or resources to search out, thoroughly read and then judge the scientific validity of such articles myself. The other problem is, I am tremendously and incredibly lazy. (Please laugh, I promise, it was a joke.) Would anyone mind helping me cut through this paper chase? Derek Haley _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From: IN%"chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "Chris Sherwin" 10-FEB-2001 06:02:13.83 To: IN%"haleyderek@hotmail.com" "Derek Haley" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@usask.ca" Subj: RE: Animals contemplating their future Derek, I don't know if these were the studies Mike was referring to, but 'evidence' of an animals ability to contemplate the future could be found by looking at some the papers on deception amongst primates. Having said this, there is some evidence that spiders also behave to deceive (Jackson R R and Wilcox R S 1993b Spider flexibly chooses aggressive mimicry signals for different prey by trial and error. Behaviour 127: 21-36) ...which leaves us where? Chris On Fri, 09 Feb 2001 17:44:14 -0600 Derek Haley wrote: > AEars / AEyes, > > Mike Appleby wrote: > > << I think that 'welfare' concerns the state of animals while they are > alive, and that death is only relevant in animals that can > contemplate the future (which will include some primates). >> > > I agree with him. Now, what I'm interested in are scientific references > that > Mike and others consider to provide the strongest evidence of animals' > ability to contemplate their future. These would be handy references to > have! I suspect there are some and I'm very interested in this topic but do > > not have enough time, or energy, or money, or resources to search out, > thoroughly read and then judge the scientific validity of such articles > myself. The other problem is, I am tremendously and incredibly lazy. > (Please > laugh, I promise, it was a joke.) Would anyone mind helping me cut through > this paper chase? > > Derek Haley > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > ---------------------- Dr. C.M. Sherwin Research Fellow (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Division of Animal Health and Husbandry University of Bristol Phone: (0117) 928 9486 Langford House Fax: (0117) 928 9582 Langford Bristol E-mail: chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk BS40 5DU From: IN%"mcaseyrvls@eircom.net" "Michael Casey" 10-FEB-2001 06:17:56.57 To: IN%"mcaseyrvls@eircom.net" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@usask.ca" Subj: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_pBbQOsbXAYVPO6A3HaS2Eg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT --Boundary_(ID_pBbQOsbXAYVPO6A3HaS2Eg) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
 
--Boundary_(ID_pBbQOsbXAYVPO6A3HaS2Eg)-- From: IN%"mcaseyrvls@eircom.net" "Michael Casey" 10-FEB-2001 06:25:57.20 To: IN%"mcaseyrvls@eircom.net" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@usask.ca" Subj: Fw: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_BkhDC4+3AYe9Ts5X30DjVA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Casey To: mcaseyrvls@eircom.net Cc: applied-ethology@usask.ca Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 12:28 PM --Boundary_(ID_BkhDC4+3AYe9Ts5X30DjVA) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 12:28 PM

 
--Boundary_(ID_BkhDC4+3AYe9Ts5X30DjVA)-- From: IN%"rita_adonis@email.com" "Ana Rita Adonis" 11-FEB-2001 09:46:40.95 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: work experience Dear All, I am a first-year student at Edge Hill College and am looking for work experience in ethology (which seems to be quite difficult). Would any of you be able to help me? Cheers! Rita ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com From: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol (TBC)" 11-FEB-2001 16:20:02.51 To: IN%"rondog@btinternet.com" "'Jon Bowen'", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'ethology'" CC: Subj: RE: cow welfare and BSE Jon My understanding of the dairy industry is that many cows do not have a long, healthy productive life with many being culled due to reproductive, lameness and disease (mastitis) problems. These can also be classed as being man-made, and are most certainly welfare issues. As for BSE being man-made, I assume you are referring to the theory that it resulted from scrapie-infected sheep being fed to cattle. I'm no BSE expert, but there are other views on how BSE arose and has spread, that do not involve it being "man-made". Regardless of that, however, I stick with what I say, regardless of whether you consider it "outrageous" - death per se is not a welfare issue, providing no suffering is involved. Affliction with BSE may be a welfare issue. Carol > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Bowen [SMTP:rondog@btinternet.com] > Sent: Friday, 9 February 2001 19:37 > To: Petherick, Carol (TBC); 'ethology' > Subject: Re: cow welfare and BSE > > > > Both Jon and Gustavo referred to the death of cows, either healthy ones > (non > > BSE) or saying "no production animal should be maintained in an > environment > > in which death would be preferable to continued healthy living". > > Surely most of our production systems are solely concerned with making > money > > through the death of healthy animals! > > Death (slaughter) is not a welfare issue provided it is carried out > quickly, humanely and with minimal (or preferably), no pain and suffering. > > > > I think you have misread the comment I made and twisted the meaning > somewhat. > > In the UK many of the affected animals were milk producers rather than > beef. > OK, they all and up as food in the end but milk cows have a much longer > lifespan. > That BSE afflicted cow might have continued to exist for several years in > a healthy state within an excellent system of husbandry, so killing it in > whatever humane manner represents a reduction in its welfare. > > I accept that death is a consequence of production. > I accept that if animals are transported carefully and killed in an > appropriate manner then suffering associated with death can be minimised. > > However, curtailment of healthy life is a welfare issue especially where > that relates to affliction with a man-made disease. > I think your remarks are outrageous!!! > > Jon > > . > ********************************DISCLAIMER**************************** The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions contained in the message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Queensland Government and its authorities. If you received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your computer system network. From: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol (TBC)" 11-FEB-2001 16:35:16.30 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'ethology'" CC: Subj: apology All My turn to apologise - I should learn to read all my e-mails before responding. I responded to Jon before reading the others - I'm sorry, I was not "rubbing it in". By the way, Mike, TBC after my name stands for Tropical Beef Centre. Don't ask me why it's there because I know there are no other 'Carol Petherick's in the Dept! I can only assume it's there to show where I'm located, as there's more than one location in Rockhampton where there are DPI (Dept Primary Industries) staff. Carol "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." Mahatma Gandhi Carol Petherick Senior Scientist (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Queensland Beef Industry Institute Tropical Beef Centre PO Box 5545 Central Qld Mail Centre Rockhampton Qld 4702 Australia email: petherc@dpi.qld.gov.au tel: (0)7 4923 8200 fax: (0)7 4923 8222 ********************************DISCLAIMER**************************** The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions contained in the message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Queensland Government and its authorities. If you received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your computer system network. From: IN%"mcaseyrvls@eircom.net" "Michael Casey" 12-FEB-2001 06:38:30.64 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Investigative behaviour in captive red deer calves This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_tPMxmWJn3EEN2e2nyckd8g) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, First, an introduction, as I am a new listee. I am a veterinary = research officer, working in a regional veterinary laboratory in the = west of Ireland, dealing with veterinary pathology, disease surveillance = and investigation in farm animals, primarily cattle and sheep. =20 I am investigating an outbreak of infectious disease in captive red deer = calves where (in a group of 60 calves) 10 males have died, and no = females. This tendency for this disease (malignant catarrhal fever) to = affect stags almost exclusively has been commented upon by some authors = in the literature, with no specific theory as to the reason, apart from = some fairly vague suggestions that captive male deer suffer more stress. = These animals are all about 8-9 months old, and apart from the fact = that the young stags are just starting to grow antlers, there would = appear to be no obvious source of stress (i.e. no greater stress than = the females in the same pens). I have, however, noticed that the male = calves seem much more fearless of humans and significantly more = inquisitive than the females. As this condition is transmitted from = sheep, often by fomites, I wondered if the greater tendency of males to = approach, sniff and lick the clothing of the stockperson might be a = factor, if the clothing was infected by contact with sheep on the same = farm (the putative source of the infection in this case). I would be grateful if anyone on the list has any references on = differences between the sexes in deer in terms of investigative = behaviour, particularly between young stags and hinds, which might = support (or refute!) this hypothesis. Thank you M=EDche=E1l Casey MVB MRCVS, Veterinary Research Officer, Regional Veterinary Laboratory, Fawcett's Bridge, Sligo, Republic of Ireland Tel: 071 - 42191 Fax: 071 - 45900 E-mail: mcaseyrvls@eircom.net --Boundary_(ID_tPMxmWJn3EEN2e2nyckd8g) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT
Hello all,
 
First, an introduction, as I am a new listee.  I am a veterinary research officer, working in a regional veterinary laboratory in the west of Ireland, dealing with veterinary pathology, disease surveillance and investigation in farm animals, primarily cattle and sheep. 
 
I am investigating an outbreak of infectious disease in captive red deer calves where (in a group of 60 calves) 10 males have died, and no females.  This tendency for this disease (malignant catarrhal fever) to affect stags almost exclusively has been commented upon by some authors in the literature, with no specific theory as to the reason, apart from some fairly vague suggestions that captive male deer suffer more stress.  These animals are all about 8-9 months old, and apart from the fact that the young stags are just starting to grow antlers, there would appear to be no obvious source of stress (i.e. no greater stress than the females in the same pens).  I have, however, noticed that the male calves seem much more fearless of humans and significantly more inquisitive than the females.  As this condition is transmitted from sheep, often by fomites, I wondered if the greater tendency of males to approach, sniff and lick the clothing of the stockperson might be a factor, if the clothing was infected by contact with sheep on the same farm (the putative source of the infection in this case).
 
I would be grateful if anyone on the list has any references on differences between the sexes in deer in terms of investigative behaviour, particularly between young stags and hinds, which might support (or refute!) this hypothesis.
 
Thank you
 
Mícheál Casey MVB MRCVS,
Veterinary Research Officer,
Regional Veterinary Laboratory,
Fawcett's Bridge,
Sligo,
Republic of Ireland
Tel: 071 - 42191
Fax: 071 - 45900
E-mail:  mcaseyrvls@eircom.net
--Boundary_(ID_tPMxmWJn3EEN2e2nyckd8g)-- From: IN%"chris.gotman@sympatico.ca" 12-FEB-2001 07:41:08.64 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: MCF and shyness in captive red deer calves My causal observation of whitetail deer fawns and caribou calves indicates that the males are less shy than the females as well. sincerely, Chris Gotman Quebec, Canada From: IN%"maria.hense@t-online.de" 12-FEB-2001 08:54:00.94 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: hunting dogs Dear All, my Name is Maria Hense, I am a veterinarian with great interest in animal behavior and welfare. I live in one of Germany s most extensive forest areas, so one frequently occuring problem is hunting / chasing in dogs. There seem to exist two theories: 1) Dogs have an innate need or drive to hunt, which is bigger in certain breeds or individuals. This means, that you have to meet this need ( by playing or exercising) to reduce the chasing problem, otherwise the dog will attempt to hunt by any means or develop behavioral problems. 2) The heights of the thresholds for hunting behavior are different in different dogs / dog breeds. They also differ depending on the experience of the dog, i.e. get lower every time a dog experiences the joy of hunting. This would mean, that you must prevent any hunting, even playful hunting of toys, if you want to prevent chasing problems. I would appreciate any information on this, especially scientific evidence. Maria Hense From: IN%"d.arey@ab.sac.ac.uk" 12-FEB-2001 10:07:54.27 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Hans Spoolder's email address? Hi, does anyone know the above? Thanks Dale From: IN%"kblock+@pitt.edu" "Karen Block" 12-FEB-2001 12:01:13.42 To: IN%"h.toner@Queens-Belfast.ac.uk" "Helen toner", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Does anyone know anything about horses?! Helen, There has been a great deal of work in the areas you mention, a little of it scientific, and a lot of it writen from a training perspective by experts. There are riding traditions, or disciplines---huntin and jumping, dressage, pleasure, and much has been written abut each. There is a published book--The Body Language of Horses.. I dont have the full reference now as I am at work and my horse books are at home. Probably you need to tell me a little more about just what perspective you want. KB --On Friday, February 09, 2001, 2:26 PM +0000 Helen toner wrote:r > > > > Sender: H.Toner@Queens-Belfast.ac.uk > To: Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca > > Hi, I previously sent in a request but am not sure if it actually > worked or if it was simply the case that no one was able to help!! I > would just like to ask again, does any one know of any recent work that > has been done on communication/ signalling in horses, body language > etc. Also does anyone know of any work done on the behaviour of the > ridden horse? THe majority of work appears to be either on feral horses > or horses in stables, not on when they are ridden/ being handled from > the ground!!! > What about simple methods of analysing gait/ centre of gravity in the > moving horse? > Just in case my previous request was never sent, I had better let you > know who I am... I am doing a PhD in equine welfare at Queens > University Belfast > Thankyou!! I would really appreciate ANY information, no matter how > vague!!! > Helen Toner > > School of Psychology > Queens University Belfast > Northern Ireland > ---------------------- > Helen toner > > --- End Forwarded Message --- > > > ---------------------- > Helen toner > KBlock+@pitt.edu Karen K. Block Dept of Psychology in Education 5A16 Forbes Quadrangle Pittsburgh, PA 15260 Eating Well is the Best Revenge----Marion Buros From: IN%"rondog@btinternet.com" "Jon Bowen" 12-FEB-2001 15:26:56.77 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'ethology'" CC: Subj: RE: cow welfare and BSE Some references that support my original view, that early death is in itself an issue and indicator of poor welfare. Broom 1991 animal welfare: concepts and measurements J animal science 69 4167-4175 Moberg 1987 Probs in defining stress and distress J AM Vet MEd Ass 191 1207-1211 Clark et al Animal well being an overview of assessment LAb An Sci 47(6) 580-585 Van der meer use of tg animals and welfare implications proc ec workshop urecht 68-77 Broom would look at premature death due to disease as the ultimate compromise in welfare. Death ahs been described as the 'classic' measure of animal well being van der Meer 1997 and Clark et al 1997. Moberg argues that stress (if continued) leads to altered biological function (appearence of disease), which if unchecked will lead to a pathological state. Allowing the appearence of pathological states to measure welfare is neither humane or acceptable according to Moberg. The conclusion is that to administer death may be essential to prevent the appearance of pathology, but that this early death in no way mitigates the reduction of welfare that arises from the appearance of disease. Indeed it is the most profound indicator that welfare is being compromised. Jon From: IN%"chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "Chris Sherwin" 13-FEB-2001 03:25:49.48 To: IN%"rondog@btinternet.com" "Jon Bowen" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'ethology'" Subj: RE: cow welfare and BSE Jon, This arguement depends so much on how we choose to define 'welfare'. My own interpretation is the 'feelings' approach - welfare is determined by how the animal feels about it's own internal and external environment. In this case, if the animal experiences a quick, painless death with no suffering, then there has been no compromise of welfare. Similarly, if a veterinary surgeon decides to perform potentially painful sugery and amputate a dogs leg, according to the feelings approach there is no welfare issue until the animal begins to recover from the anaesthetic and becomes sensitive to the pain. To euthanase animals at a young age is therefore not a welfare issue, so long as this does not involve suffering to the animal - this does not mean it is not an ethical or moral issue though. If the animal was diseased before being euthanased, then yes, there probably was a welfare issue - if the animal was aware of the disease or its pathologies. Just my two-cents worth... Chris On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:25:43 +0000 Jon Bowen wrote: > Some references that support my original view, that early death is in > itself > an issue and indicator of poor welfare. > > Broom 1991 animal welfare: concepts and measurements J animal science 69 > 4167-4175 > Moberg 1987 Probs in defining stress and distress J AM Vet MEd Ass 191 > 1207-1211 > Clark et al Animal well being an overview of assessment LAb An Sci > 47(6) 580-585 > Van der meer use of tg animals and welfare implications proc ec workshop > urecht 68-77 > > > Broom would look at premature death due to disease as the ultimate > compromise in welfare. > Death ahs been described as the 'classic' measure of animal well being van > der Meer 1997 and Clark et al 1997. > Moberg argues that stress (if continued) leads to altered biological > function (appearence of disease), which if unchecked will lead to a > pathological state. Allowing the appearence of pathological states to > measure welfare is neither humane or acceptable > according to Moberg. > > The conclusion is that to administer death may be essential to prevent the > appearance of pathology, but that this early death in no way mitigates the > reduction of welfare that arises from the appearance of disease. > Indeed it is the most profound indicator that welfare is being > compromised. > > Jon > > ---------------------- Dr. C.M. Sherwin Research Fellow (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Division of Animal Health and Husbandry University of Bristol Phone: (0117) 928 9486 Langford House Fax: (0117) 928 9582 Langford Bristol E-mail: chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk BS40 5DU From: IN%"supereeyore@hotmail.com" "Eddie Fernandez" 13-FEB-2001 03:43:19.15 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Karen Pryor talk For anyone interested, The Organization for Reinforcement Contingencies with Animals (ORCA) here at the University of North Texas will be bringing Karen Pryor, author of Don't Shoot the Dog, for a free lecture in March. Anyone in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area (or those who are up for a drive!) are more then welcome to come. We will be hosting the talk on Friday, March 9th, at 4:00 pm, on the UNT campus. It should be a great talk, and you'd also get a chance to see the research ORCA has been conducting over the past year. Please feel free to e-mail me privately for any further information or questions. Thanks, Eddie F... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From: IN%"LEVRINO@posta.unizar.es" "GUSTAVO MARIA LEVRINO" 13-FEB-2001 03:55:16.22 To: IN%"chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "Chris Sherwin" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: cow welfare and BSE Dear Chris: Interesting your point of view. Finally we arrive to the "key" point...the cut-off point in welfare issues...and this is an ethical or moral decision...if you assume that to have welfare (good or bad) you have to be alive...the dicision of "when" YOU cut this life is an important decision moral and ethical...and this is valid in any assessment of welfare...you can have very exact measurements of welfare (and -I think- life is one of them)...but you have to have the cut-off point to decide when welfare is good and when welfare is bad...(see Mendl, 1991, App. Anim. Behav., 31:139-146). And this is not a technical issue...the Society have to define this cut-off points...I think...have a nice day...Gustavo Life Span ? ? ? Welfare? 0..........................................................100 Gustavo A. Mar=EDa Levrino Profesor Titular de Universidad Departamento de Producci=F3n Animal y Ciencia de los Alimentos Facultad de Veterinaria Universidad de Zaragoza Miguel Servet 177 (50013) Zaragoza Espa=F1a - Spain Tel=E9fono: 34 976 762490 Fax: 34 976 761612 y 34 976 761590 e-mail: levrino@posta.unizar.es From: IN%"rondog@btinternet.com" "Jon Bowen" 13-FEB-2001 04:03:54.30 To: IN%"chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "Chris Sherwin" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'ethology'" Subj: RE: cow welfare and BSE Chris, Very valid point. I am not sure that this view does not break down in this particular instance, which is when an animal's welfare is so compromised as a result of a husbandry system that euthanasia is required (the BSE cow or another animal in a similar state of disease). In this case the intervention is an indication of failure of the system leading to poor welfare. After all, looking at any production system, why concern ourselves with the day to day welfare of the animals if we regard immediate humane slaughter at the onset of pathology to be an acceptable way to avoid any welfare problem. In which case the only reason why we correct the cause is because of economics [lost production]. Welfare is a piece of self-deception. I take the view that if we plan to maintain an animal in a given system for a pre-determined period of time then any failure to do so is a welfare problem or at least strong evidence of one. Another approach [for argument's sake]... We plan a life for the production animal, that involves a planned [or expected] lifespan in a particular environment. This life, from the moment of birth to the end of the animal's life involves a number of welfare compromises that we make, and we could quantify in some way the quality of the animal's life as a whole. We could calculate some figure that amounts to the quality of life. For an animal living in an optimised environment, which is what we aim for, one of the main sources of suffering will be process of slaughter and all of the things that lead up to it (transport, handling etc). For livestock death is never free of suffering. Assuming an hypothetical optimum environment that is itself responsible for no suffering and in which their may actually be some 'pleasure' for the animal a reduction in the animal's planned lifespan means that as a proportion of its life a greater part of the whole was spent in a state of suffering. This does not need assume the animal's ability to anticipate any kind of future life lost. What do you think? Jon From: IN%"mappleby@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk" "Mike Appleby" 13-FEB-2001 06:37:16.79 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'ethology'" CC: Subj: RE: cow welfare and BSE Dear Jon > Some references that support my original view, that early death is in itself > an issue and indicator of poor welfare. Yes, certainly if animals die - as opposed to being killed humanely - there must usually have been suffering beforehand. Presumably sudden death from heart-attacks or whatever, with no previous suffering, are as rare in animals as in humans. > Moberg argues that stress (if continued) leads to altered biological > function (appearence of disease), which if unchecked will lead to a > pathological state. Allowing the appearence of pathological states to > measure welfare is neither humane or acceptable > according to Moberg. > The conclusion is that to administer death may be essential to prevent the > appearance of pathology, but that this early death in no way mitigates the > reduction of welfare that arises from the appearance of disease. > Indeed it is the most profound indicator that welfare is being compromised. Again, I disagree. If it is stress that leads to the disease, then there may well be reduction of welfare from that. But if the early stages of the disease do not cause suffering, and the animal is killed to prevent further development of the disease and the suffering that would cause, then the death does indeed prevent the reduction in welfare that would otherwise have occurred. We can - and should - still discuss whether the killing is ethically justified, but I do not agree that it constitutes a reduction in welfare itself. To some extent this is all semantics, because we all agree that the state of the animal while alive, and the question of whether and when we should kill it, are both matters for concern! Best wishes, Mike Michael Appleby Dr M.C. Appleby Director of Postgraduate Studies in Agriculture & Resource Economics Institute of Ecology and Resource Management University of Edinburgh West Mains Road Edinburgh EH9 3JG, UK Tel. +44 131 535 4098 Fax. +44 131 667 2601 Email michael.appleby@ed.ac.uk From: IN%"emma.jones@bbsrc.ac.uk" "emma jones (SRI)" 13-FEB-2001 06:58:53.85 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: IN%"denise.welch@bbsrc.ac.uk" "denise welch (SRI)" Subj: Excretory behaviour of pigs Dear All I am trying to find out information on the spatial distribution of defecation and urination in outdoor pigs. I have found information on the spatial distribution in cattle and in indoor pigs but can't seem to find anything on free-range/outdoor pigs. Does anybody know of any work that has been done on this topic?? Emma Emma K M Jones Silsoe Research Institute Bio-Engineering Division Wrest Park Silsoe Bedfordshire MK45 4HS Telephone: +44 (0)1525 860000 (ex 2641) Fax: +44 (0) 1525 861735 Email: emma.jones@bbsrc.ac.uk From: IN%"chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "Chris Sherwin" 13-FEB-2001 07:18:28.62 To: IN%"rondog@btinternet.com" "Jon Bowen" CC: IN%"chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "Chris Sherwin", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'ethology'" Subj: RE: cow welfare and BSE Jon > I am not sure that this view does not break down in this particular > instance, which is when an animal's welfare is so compromised as a result > of > a husbandry system that euthanasia is required (the BSE cow or another > animal in a similar state of disease). I'm not sure I agree with this - it is not the euthanasia that compromises the animal's welfare, but the suffering the animal experiences prior to death. If the animal was aware it had a disease and as a consequence suffered, then yes, welfare was compromised. If the animal was unaware of this (as might or might not be the case with BSE) then there is not a welfare issue. This is not to say that a husbandry system that routinely requires early euthanasia is ethically or morally justifiable, it's just that welfare should be assessed at the level of the individual animal's experience. > I take the view that if we plan to maintain an animal in a given system for > a pre-determined period of time then any failure to do so is a welfare > problem or at least strong evidence of one. This really depends on why we consider the system has 'failed' - economics of animal production and animals welfare cannot necessarily be weighed up on the balance pans of the same weighing scale. > > Another approach [for argument's sake]... > We plan a life for the production animal, that involves a planned [or > expected] lifespan in a particular environment. > This life, from the moment of birth to the end of the animal's life > involves > a number of welfare compromises that we make, and we could quantify in some > way the quality of the animal's life as a whole. We could calculate some > figure that amounts to the quality of life. > For an animal living in an optimised environment, which is what we aim for, > one of the main sources of suffering will be process of slaughter and all > of > the things that lead up to it (transport, handling etc). > For livestock death is never free of suffering. I think most people that have responded to this discussion have been talking about a quick and painless method of euthanasia - this does exist for some animals (e.g. domestic cats and dogs) for whom there is very little compromise other than the injection, but I agree that for standard farm animal slaughter, there is probably a certain amount of suffering associated with this (although I might take issue with your suggestion that one of the main sources of suffering is the process of slaughter unless the environments to which you refer are HIGHLY optimised). > > Assuming an hypothetical optimum environment that is itself responsible for > no suffering and in which their may actually be some 'pleasure' for the > animal a reduction in the animal's planned lifespan means that as a > proportion of its life a greater part of the whole was spent in a state of > suffering. No, only a shortened experience of pleasurable mental states - unless the animal is aware that it is going to miss out on this extension of pleasurable states...which gets us back to Mikes point! > > This does not need assume the animal's ability to anticipate any kind of > future life lost. If I'm interprting what you are saying correctly, ability to anticipate would be essential. If an animal doesn't know what the future is, how can it develop a negative mental state at the possibility of losing its pleasurable mental states? Regards, Chris ---------------------- Dr. C.M. Sherwin Research Fellow (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Division of Animal Health and Husbandry University of Bristol Phone: (0117) 928 9486 Langford House Fax: (0117) 928 9582 Langford Bristol E-mail: chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk BS40 5DU From: IN%"mappleby@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk" "Mike Appleby" 13-FEB-2001 08:29:57.93 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Excretory behaviour of pigs Emma et al > I am trying to find out information on the spatial distribution of > defecation and urination in outdoor pigs. I have found information on the > spatial distribution in cattle and in indoor pigs but can't seem to find > anything on free-range/outdoor pigs. Does anybody know of any work that has > been done on this topic?? Alex Stolba, in his original Pig Park study, described defaecation happening generally while pigs were on the move, and hence tending to occur most often on pathways between bushes rather than, say, in feeding areas. That is why his designs for the Family Pen included a 'defaecation corridor'. But I don't know off hand if those observations were quantified or formalized in any way. I guess that both the Edinburgh and the Swedish Pig Park reports would also indicate that pigs move away from their nest area to defaecate, which is basically what happens in housing. Mike Michael Appleby Dr M.C. Appleby Director of Postgraduate Studies in Agriculture & Resource Economics Institute of Ecology and Resource Management University of Edinburgh West Mains Road Edinburgh EH9 3JG, UK Tel. +44 131 535 4098 Fax. +44 131 667 2601 Email michael.appleby@ed.ac.uk From: IN%"mappleby@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk" "Mike Appleby" 13-FEB-2001 11:31:28.78 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: (Fwd) AW: Excretory behaviour of pigs Dear Ragnhild No, I don't know that particular paper, and frankly I doubt you will be able to get hold of it unless someone else on this list has it. The Association for the Study of Animal Behaviour is, as you may know, a scientific society, and my guess is that Stolba gave a paper at one of their conferences - I even wonder if the page references are wrong and this is in fact a one page abstract. ASAB does indeed have a library (the librarian is listed in all issues of Animal Behaviour) but there is no publication associated with the library that I know of. Stolba died some years ago. I think you should look elsewhere for what you want from that paper! The Swedish Pig Park was run by Per Jensen and his colleagues. Try looking for his references, or contacting him (per.jensen@hmh.slu.se). Mike ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: "Ragnhild Weber" To: "'Mike Appleby'" Subject: AW: Excretory behaviour of pigs Date sent: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 17:42:10 +0100 Dear Dr. Appleby, this discussion mentioning Stolba and the Edinbrugh Pig Park reminds me of the following. I have been searching for this reference for a long time. Do you happen to know where or how I can find the following paper? Stolba, A. 1988. Ethograms of the domestic pig and European wild boar. In: The Library of the Association for the Study of Animal Behaviour, pp. 287-298. I didn't know there was a Swedish Pig Park as well. Could you give me a hint as to references refering to it? Thank you very much for your help in advance. Sincerely, Ragnhild Weber Ph.D. student at the University of Hohenheim, Stuttgart, Germany > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Mike Appleby [mailto:mappleby@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk] > Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. Februar 2001 15:28 > An: Applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca > Betreff: Re: Excretory behaviour of pigs > > > Emma et al > > > I am trying to find out information on the spatial distribution of > > defecation and urination in outdoor pigs. I have found > information on the > > spatial distribution in cattle and in indoor pigs but can't > seem to find > > anything on free-range/outdoor pigs. Does anybody know of > any work that has > > been done on this topic?? > > Alex Stolba, in his original Pig Park study, described defaecation > happening generally while pigs were on the move, and hence > tending to occur most often on pathways between bushes rather > than, say, in feeding areas. That is why his designs for the Family > Pen included a 'defaecation corridor'. But I don't know off hand if > those observations were quantified or formalized in any way. > > I guess that both the Edinburgh and the Swedish Pig Park reports > would also indicate that pigs move away from their nest area to > defaecate, which is basically what happens in housing. > > Mike > > > > > Michael Appleby > > Dr M.C. Appleby > Director of Postgraduate Studies > in Agriculture & Resource Economics > Institute of Ecology and Resource Management > University of Edinburgh > West Mains Road > Edinburgh EH9 3JG, UK > Tel. +44 131 535 4098 > Fax. +44 131 667 2601 > Email michael.appleby@ed.ac.uk ------- End of forwarded message ------- Michael Appleby Dr M.C. Appleby Director of Postgraduate Studies in Agriculture & Resource Economics Institute of Ecology and Resource Management University of Edinburgh West Mains Road Edinburgh EH9 3JG, UK Tel. +44 131 535 4098 Fax. +44 131 667 2601 Email michael.appleby@ed.ac.uk From: IN%"LEVRINO@posta.unizar.es" "GUSTAVO MARIA LEVRINO" 13-FEB-2001 12:04:02.38 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: noise effect on Cattle production Dear All: we are looking for information on the effect of noise (high speed train) on milking cattle production and welfare...if somebody have experience on that or know some key references, please, contact us by e-mail...thank you very much...Gustavo Gustavo A. Mar=EDa Levrino Profesor Titular de Universidad Departamento de Producci=F3n Animal y Ciencia de los Alimentos Facultad de Veterinaria Universidad de Zaragoza Miguel Servet 177 (50013) Zaragoza Espa=F1a - Spain Tel=E9fono: 34 976 762490 Fax: 34 976 761612 y 34 976 761590 e-mail: levrino@posta.unizar.es From: IN%"rondog@btinternet.com" "Jon Bowen" 13-FEB-2001 14:08:56.09 To: IN%"chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "Chris Sherwin" CC: IN%"chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "Chris Sherwin", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'ethology'" Subj: RE: cow welfare and BSE > the environments to which you refer are HIGHLY optimised). Hence the word hypothetical. Jon From: IN%"jagoj@wave.co.nz" "Jenny Jago" 13-FEB-2001 14:14:51.31 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Automatic milking This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_r15JDAum2etLPDA7YF+eyQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT We have recently begun work on a pasture-based dairying system which incorporates an automatic milking system (AMS). I would like to hear from anyone involved in work concerning combining AMS & grazing. Regards Jenny --Boundary_(ID_r15JDAum2etLPDA7YF+eyQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
We have recently begun work on a pasture-based dairying system which incorporates an automatic milking system (AMS). I would like to hear from anyone involved in work concerning combining AMS & grazing.
 
Regards
 
Jenny
--Boundary_(ID_r15JDAum2etLPDA7YF+eyQ)-- From: IN%"rita_adonis@email.com" "Ana Rita Adonis" 13-FEB-2001 14:38:23.97 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: work experience 2 Dear all, Due to the lack of information about myself, I am re-writing the email I have sent a few days ago asking for work experience (once again, cheers Robert!) I am a 19 years old Portuguese girl studying Psychology in the north of England, near Liverpool. I am a first year and I have always been interested in animal behaviour (including the "naked ape"). After finishing my course, I wish to become an ethologist (although, I must confess, I am still not very clear about what ethology really is). Therefore, I am now looking for any kind of work experience, firstly to understand better ethology and, of course, for my CV. I have a special interest for farm and wild animals, and something like a trip to Africa to study monkeys in their natural habitat would be my dream. But realistically, any kind of experience would be just great. I am willing to travel any were. I am very open minded and interested in knowing other places, people and ideas. I have travelled trough California and Italy working in organic farms and sleeping in a tent is not a problem for me. The best period to work would be during my summer break (July-August). Compensation would not be essential (although welcome) if travel and lodging would be included. So please email me if you think you might have something for me, or if you know of anyone who would (or any kind of trip to Africa!). I can send my CV (although I don`t have much work experience) to anyone interested. Thank you ! Rita ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com From: IN%"jkincaid@kawartha.com" "John Kincaid" 13-FEB-2001 16:54:03.93 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca'" CC: Subj: [Fwd: No Longer Alone: The Scientist Who Dared to Say Animals Think] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_zORc/50Lrm/mesp1RgAdRQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear All; This is a fairly long article I would like your critique of this forwarded article. I send it now as there has been some discussion about animal suffering on the list recently. JohnK --Boundary_(ID_zORc/50Lrm/mesp1RgAdRQ) Content-type: message/rfc822 Forwarded from a post by Marc Bekoff http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/03/arts/03TANK.html February 3, 2001 THINK TANK No Longer Alone: The Scientist Who Dared to Say Animals Think By EMILY EAKIN ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Donald Griffin was at the Central Park Zoo last month watching the polar bears nuzzle a synthetic log smeared with Skippy. "They really like that peanut butter," Dr. Griffin observed as Gus, 800 pounds, tried to fit his nose into an enticingly sticky knothole. To the untutored eye it looked like just another feeding time at the zoo, but at Central Park the exercise with the log and snack goes by the grander name of "animal enrichment" and is intended to stimulate the bears' minds as well as their appetites. It's a concept for which the bears have Dr. Griffin, 85, in large part to thank. Twenty-five years ago he published a short book suggesting that humans didn't have the monopoly on thoughts and feelings. Animals, he argued, most likely had them, too. Scientists were appalled. According to the behaviorist doctrine that held sway at the time, animals were little more than "stimulus response automata," robots with a central nervous system. The idea that an ant or an elephant might have thoughts, images, experiences or beliefs was not just laughable; it was seditious. After Dr. Griffin published a second brief on behalf of animal consciousness in the 1980's, one behaviorist labeled it " `The Satanic Verses' of animal behavior." Were it not for the fact that he had a tenured position at Rockefeller University as well as an international reputation, Dr. Griffin might have found himself out of a job. (As a graduate student at Harvard in the 1940's, he helped solve the mystery of how bats navigate in the dark and coined the term echolocation to describe it.) "He insisted that people look at animal consciousness when it was considered anthropomorphic and flaky," said Sarah Blaffer Hrdy, an emeritus professor of anthropology at the University of California at Davis. "Anyone else would have been hooted out." But the field Dr. Griffin christened cognitive ethology ultimately took off. Over the last decade alone a flood of new data have emerged that would seem to have turned the tide definitively in his favor. In Arizona an African Gray parrot named Alex can identify colors and shapes as well as any preschooler. In Georgia a bonobo ape named Kanzi converses with his trainer via computer keyboard and watches Tarzan movies on television. Last week researchers at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology published evidence suggesting that rats dream. Animal enrichment programs featuring mental puzzles disguised as toys and treats have become a standard part of daily life at zoos. And this spring the University of Chicago Press will issue an updated edition of Dr. Griffin's 1992 book, "Animal Minds." If Dr. Griffin, a tall, thin decorous man with a predilection for animal-print ties, views these developments as vindication, he is too modest to say so. "We know so very little," he said. "Scientists, including me, have come to be very cautious. Early work on primate gestures and facial expressions was grossly misinterpreted." In fact the recent findings appear to have only intensified the debate over animal consciousness. Lately, experts on the human mind philosophers and psychologist have been weighing in alongside the scientists. For if it turns out that animals can think, then the idea that consciousness is unique to humans a basic assumption in Western thought since Descartes becomes impossible to maintain. Clearly Gus, Alex and Kanzi aren't Cartesian automatons, but just how conscious are they? Do they experience pain, desire and other sensations the way humans do? (Philosophers call this phenomenal consciousness.) Are they capable of thinking about their experiences? (Philosophers call this self-consciousness.) Do they have beliefs? What about remembering the past? Do earthworms have some form of consciousness? What about salamanders? Is it even possible to study an animal's inner life? The range of opinion on these questions is nearly as great as the number of possible answers. Surveying the scholarship in the journal Philosophia in 1988, the University of Houston professor Justin Leiber found a field riven by discordant claims. Two philosophers agreed in "denying consciousness to sponges." One drew the line "somewhere between the shrimp and the oyster." Another proved willing to "speculate about the subjective experience of tapeworms," while yet another had referred to the "inner life of cockroaches." More recently the Tufts University philosopher Daniel C. Dennett declared the state of thinking on animal consciousness a "mess." On the one hand there are the pro-consciousness philosophers like Colin McGinn, a professor at Rutgers University, and Peter Singer, a professor of bioethics at Princeton and a leading animal rights advocate. These scholars believe that most if not all animals have phenomenal consciousness. "I think it's plain common sense that animals have conscious states," Mr. McGinn said. "Animals way down to insects have phenomenal consciousness. It's a primitive feature of the biological world." On the other hand there are the skeptics like Mr. Dennett and Herbert Terrace, a psychologist at Columbia University. What "are you seeing when you see sentience in a creature?" Mr. Dennett asked in a 1995 essay. "It is in fact ridiculously easy to induce powerful intuitions of not just sentience but full-blown consciousness (ripe with malevolence or curiosity or friendship) by exposing people to quite simple robots made to move in familiar mammalian ways at mammalian speeds." Mr. Terrace, who has studied apes and monkeys in his lab, concedes that animals think, but draws the line at consciousness. "Language is necessary for consciousness," he said. "There is something going on in animals' heads, but it's not linguistic." Dr. Griffin appears mildly amused by the debate his work has helped unleash. During his visit to the Central Park Zoo he gave a talk to donors and trustees. "Daniel Dennett calls the pursuit of animal consciousness a `wild goose chase,' " he told the audience with a chuckle. "But there are no neurons or synapses in the human brain that aren't also in animals. It's as difficult to disprove animal consciousness as it is to prove it." Although officially retired, Dr. Griffin is still active in the field. He is currently investigating a colony of beavers near his home in Lexington, Mass. "They're obviously animals that might be thinking of what they're doing," he said. --Boundary_(ID_zORc/50Lrm/mesp1RgAdRQ)-- From: IN%"jessnbob@ihug.co.nz" "Jessica van der Pol" 13-FEB-2001 23:36:28.33 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied ethology" CC: Subj: fireworks Hi all, does anyone out there know where to get hold of a taping of fireworks sounds. I am interested using systematic desensitization for dogs with fireworks phobias. I know I could make one myself but it is the wrong time of year and it would be good to be able to treat these dogs before they have to face another Guy Fawkes. Any info. or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, Thanks in advance, Jessica. From: IN%"rweb@Uni-Hohenheim.DE" "Ragnhild Weber" 14-FEB-2001 02:57:28.19 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: paper by Stolba Dear everybody, I have been searching for the following paper by Stolba for a long time. Does anyone happen to have it/know where or how I can find it? (I already asked the librarian of the ASAB library in Cambridge, but she hasn't answered yet.) Stolba, A. 1988. Ethograms of the domestic pig and European wild boar. In: The Library of the Association for the Study of Animal Behaviour, pp. 287-298. It is said (Anim. Prod. (1989), 48, 419-425) that in this paper the full ethogram Stolba and Wood-Gush found in their Pig Park is described. Thank you very much for your support in advance. Ragnhild Weber Ph.D. student at the University of Hohenheim, Stuttgart, Germany From: IN%"catinthehat@worldnet.att.net" "catinthehat" 14-FEB-2001 08:06:33.99 To: IN%"jessnbob@ihug.co.nz" "Jessica van der Pol", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied ethology" CC: Subj: RE: fireworks The Discovery channel (I believe it is Discovery.com) has had programs on fireworks, the making etc and show with sound the results. They would have tapes, maybe even for sale. Lacking that try your local news stations and ask them for one from their library; they may have recent one from Chinese New Year (last month) if ya'll have a Chinatown there & should have fireworks "file". If that still doesn't work go to gun range or military base and ask to record a tape or if military has a tape. I Know the sounds are different but similar enough to desensitize perhaps, esp military as they might have rocket sounds - the whine gets to a lot of critters that booms don't bother. Would also ask military, customs & police K-9 units if they have tapes as their dogs must be accustomed to such sounds and turbulence. If none of the above work LMK off list & I will check here in USA. Guy Fawlkes day is in May? Do your police carry firearms there? Just curious. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jessica van der Pol [mailto:jessnbob@ihug.co.nz] > > Hi all, does anyone out there know where to get hold of a taping of > fireworks sounds. I am interested using systematic > desensitization for dogs > with fireworks phobias. I know I could make one myself but it is the wrong > time of year and it would be good to be able to treat these dogs > before they > have to face another Guy Fawkes. Any info. or suggestions would be greatly > appreciated, Thanks in advance, Jessica. > From: IN%"EnjoyYourPet@aol.com" 14-FEB-2001 09:15:00.73 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: fireworks One problem with tapes/videos is that most portable and home stereo systems will not reproduce all of the fireworks or gunfire sounds with high fidelity. Usually they do not have enough energy in the low frequency components of the recording. Perhaps you can locate a young person with one of those obnoxious "boom box bass" units in his/her automobile to assist you with playback. I find this works well because I can do it in an outdoor setting and the dog doesn't suspect he/she is being set up. Good luck. Amy C. Amelia D. Compton, Ph.D. Behavioral Psychologist & Certified Canine Trainer Animal Behavior Solutions, Inc. 5101-B Lakeside Avenue Richmond, VA 23228 phone: 804 264-4540 From: IN%"meredith@farmline.com" "Michael Meredith" 14-FEB-2001 10:49:00.11 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Ethology Posting" CC: Subj: RE: fireworks and other sounds effects for desensitisation Hi Jessica! I have put a variety of sound effects, including firworks and gunfire, on-line, which can be accessed from: http://members.farmline.com/stress/sounds.htm There is also a listing there of proprietary CDs of sound effects. Mike Meredith From: IN%"rondog@btinternet.com" "Jon Bowen" 14-FEB-2001 10:54:16.61 To: IN%"jessnbob@ihug.co.nz" "Jessica van der Pol", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied ethology" CC: Subj: RE: fireworks Hi Jessica, I am making a CD of firework sounds right now. Should be ready within a week on CDR and will be in proper production within a couple of weeks. Recordings of other noises will follow as I compile a library of sounds.. I have found that cheap recording equipment [especially microphones] produce recordings that are actually pretty useless. To get something convincing you need expensive equipment. Use of noises from programmes and special effects movies is fine but you need to remove other cues that are recorded, such as speech and music. If anyone is interested in compiling or getting hold of desensitisation material please get in touch. Cheers, Jon From: IN%"rondog@btinternet.com" "Jon Bowen" 14-FEB-2001 11:18:30.84 To: IN%"EnjoyYourPet@aol.com", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: fireworks > One problem with tapes/videos is that most portable and home stereo systems > will not reproduce all of the fireworks or gunfire sounds with high fidelity. > Usually they do not have enough energy in the low frequency components of > the recording. Absolutely right about the low frequencies, but in some other phobias it is the higher frequencies too. I have seen this with dogs fearful of crashing metal objects like gates and retail roll-cages. I have also had a few cases where dogs have come to ignore all sounds played on a particular hi-fi system, as if they have learned the sound signature of that system. I suppose they learn the frequency limits and inconsistencies within the playback system. There are ways to overcome these limitations. First of all I encourage the use of subwoofer speakers that can go down to 15 or so Hz, which is usually low enough to convince most dogs. These are getting quite common now that more people have home theatre systems. Secondly, recording quality makes a huge impact on how effective the sounds are. Adjustments can be made to increase the energy in individual sounds so that they appear more powerful even on a simple system. Thirdly I get owners to use the recordings on several different sound systems so that the dogs don't just become accustomed to the sound of the hi-fi. Try desensitisation in other people's homes, i the cars etc. The sound system in most cars is can be pretty good for desensitisation as long as you are very careful that you don't expose the animal to any aversive level noises and leave the dog an escape route. Using sound systems in a variety of locations also helps reduce the significance of context for the dog. Jon From: IN%"rondog@btinternet.com" "Jon Bowen" 14-FEB-2001 11:48:08.82 To: IN%"applied-ethology@usask.ca" CC: Subj: Fw: fireworks ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Bowen To: Jessica van der Pol ; Applied ethology Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:57 PM Subject: Re: fireworks > Hi Jessica, > > I am making a CD of firework sounds right now. > Should be ready within a week on CDR and will be in proper production within > a couple of weeks. > > Recordings of other noises will follow as I compile a library of sounds.. > > I have found that cheap recording equipment [especially microphones] produce > recordings that are actually pretty useless. > To get something convincing you need expensive equipment. > > Use of noises from programmes and special effects movies is fine but you > need to remove other cues that are recorded, such as speech and music. > > If anyone is interested in compiling or getting hold of desensitisation > material please get in touch. > > Cheers, > > Jon > > From: IN%"jessnbob@ihug.co.nz" "Jessica van der Pol" 14-FEB-2001 16:50:26.98 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied ethology" CC: Subj: fireworks Hi, this is just a quick note to thank you all for your advice and help. There seems to be many people out there who have compiled "sound tapes" of high and convincing quality. This is a great help to an amateur like me! Thanks again, Jessica. From: IN%"bc_herd@algonet.se" "Maud Gr=?ISO-8859-1?B?9g==?=nberger" 14-FEB-2001 17:50:04.45 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: SV: Excretory behaviour of pigs Hi! I had some 30 pigs for ten years that where living more or less outside. They had a shed where they slept, but were free to come and go as they pleased. They selected a place as a common "loo" in tha= t corner of their habitate that where as far as possible from the place where they slept/were feed. The pigs seemed to have an agreement that "nr 2" was made at that place whereas "nr 1" could be made at other places, but not near the "house". As far as I can see, animals living in a group with a common "home", select= s a place for loo separated from the place where they eat or sleep. Sheep and goats, on the other hand, which in nature don't live in dens, doesn't appear to have this behavior. They freely do both "nr 1 and 2" inside, where they sleep, or at the place(s) where they eat. If you want to meet Sixten (the Great Pig), look under "Animals" at my home page. Regards Maud Gronberger Welcome to my homepage: http://www.algonet.se/~bc_herd and http://hem.passagen.se/sv.herdeskolan Mail: bc_herd@algonet.se K=F6p "Herdeskolans ABC", boken om kommunikation i vallning. From: IN%"JNM@dmu.ac.uk" "Jeremy Marchant" 14-FEB-2001 19:53:52.29 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'Applied ethology '" CC: Subj: RE: fireworks For recordings and playback to be 'true', you should bear in mind that the hearing range of the dog is around 40Hz to 55,000Hz, with best sensitivity between 500Hz and 16,000Hz. For full effect, you would need to ensure that the recording equipment and the playback equipment works within the 40 to 55,000Hz range. If not, you risk missing the sound frequencies that elicit the full phobic response. Jeremy Dr Jeremy Marchant Senior Research Fellow - De Montfort University, UK Visiting Scholar - Purdue University, USA From: IN%"jessnbob@ihug.co.nz" "Jessica van der Pol" 14-FEB-2001 20:16:54.36 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied ethology" CC: Subj: fireworks -----Original Message----- From: Pat Melese Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 3:00 PM To: 'Jessica van der Pol' Cc: 'Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca' Subject: RE: fireworks As several others have pointed out, high fidelity recordings and playback are among the important factors in these behavior problems. In the U.S. you can obtain C/D s of high quality sounds in a format designed for DS/CC from a company called: "Legacy By Mail" (1-888-876-9364) (http://www.legacy-by-mail.com/). They have fireworks, thunderstorms, gunshots, vacuum cleaners and other household appliances as well as children sounds and sounds of dogs. They also have long enough "clips" to be useful for DS/CC since many sound-effect recordings have very short (few seconds only) "sound bytes," which are very difficult to use in practice. Although only the fidelity of a quality cassette tape, preprogrammed desensitizing sound effect tapes for thunderstorms and fireworks can be ordered from "Starfire" in Virginia (U.S.) at (540) 349-1039. These use a background of "soothing" music upon which is brought up the problematic noises that gets louder over some 14 segments the owner plays for their pet. The final segment is only the full volume noises with no more music in the background. It is one of the more "turn-key" and simple and self-explanatory sound desensitization systems for dog owners to use. Hope that this helps. Patrick Patrick Melese MA, DVM Diplomate, American College of Veterinary Behaviorists Behavior Service University of California Veterinary Medical Center- San Diego 6525 Calle Del Nido P.O. Box 9115 Rancho Santa Fe, CA 92067 phone: 858-759-6837 Fax: 858-759-9896 e-mail for clients and public: vetbehavior@vmth.ucdavis.edu private e-mail for veterinarians, behavior professionals and U.C. staff only: pymelese@ucdavis.edu From: IN%"Gerflannigan@aol.com" 14-FEB-2001 20:37:10.46 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Fireworks You should try out: http://www.mastersvoice-dog.com/ They have tapes that are specificly used for thunder, fireworks and gunshot phobias. They combine the noise with soothing music and infuse the noise in and then the music out. I just got a CD from them for a talk I am giving. I really like them. Give the web site a look. _________________________________________________________________ Gerry Flannigan DVM, (MSc) Practice Limited to Behavior Carolina Veterinary Specialists Greensboro/Charlotte, North Carolina 336-632-0605 (Voice) 336-632-0703 (Fax) gerflannigan@aol.com From: IN%"jwillard@turbonet.com" "Janice Willard" 15-FEB-2001 01:32:12.78 To: IN%"rondog@btinternet.com" "Jon Bowen" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: cow welfare and BSE At 10:06 AM 2/13/01 +0000, you wrote: >Chris, > >Very valid point. >I am not sure that this view does not break down in this particular >instance, which is when an animal's welfare is so compromised as a result of >a husbandry system that euthanasia is required (the BSE cow or another >animal in a similar state of disease). > >In this case the intervention is an indication of failure of the system >leading to poor welfare. >After all, looking at any production system, why concern ourselves with the >day to day welfare of the animals if we regard immediate humane slaughter at >the onset of pathology to be an acceptable way to avoid any welfare problem. > >In which case the only reason why we correct the cause is because of >economics [lost production]. Welfare is a piece of self-deception. > >I take the view that if we plan to maintain an animal in a given system for >a pre-determined period of time then any failure to do so is a welfare >problem or at least strong evidence of one. > Jon, If I understand your argument here, you are saying that, if a domestic animal becomes ill for any reason, and dies either through the disease process or by euthanasia because of its disease, then this is an indication of a welfare problem and a failure of the husbandry system (we will skirt here the evidence that animals in the wilds who are in no way influenced by humans also encounter diseases and die from them). I'm having some problems with this argument. It is true that stress in an individual will reduce its resistance and makes it more susceptible to certain diseases. But notice that I said certain diseases. Some pathogens are capable of infecting animals that are at a high level of health and resistance. This depends on the virulence of the disease causing agent as well as the resistance of the individual. (Look at highly virulent pathogens like Ebola virus, for example). And while we strive to raise animals in a way that anticipates all of these pathogens and with animals that are capable of resisting them, well, we are not gods. And even if we were able to understand, anticipate and protect from all known pathogens, even if we were able to raise our animals in such a way as to empower them with such good health that they could fail to be affected by most pathogens, well, nature is a dynamic, not a static process. New pathogens would develop and emerge that we neither anticipate nor understand. This is the way of the natural world, of which we are all a part. Certainly if two decades ago, we had understood or anticipated BSE, I have no doubts we would have behaved differently in our livestock rearing practices. But none of us has a crystal ball that sees into the future. And in the face of an epidemic, I think it is appropriate to look at all of the sufferers, those in a stage of the disease where they are expressing the disease (which I think we all could agree that with BSE are suffering), those in the early stages of the disease who are not yet expressing clinical signs that we can perceive, but are capable of spreading this disease and infecting others with it and those currently unaffected and at risk. So if euthanizing an infected individual who is not yet showing clinical signs prevents the spread of the disease to many other currently unaffected individuals, where does that go on our welfare tally sheet? And also, certainly, economics plays a role in animal welfare practices. And I personally have no problems with including that among good motivating factors for instituting husbandry reforms; humans are also animals and while nobility is wonderful in concept, it rarely puts food on the table. Animals are frequently motivated by self interest; why not acknowledge that humans are as well and work with that? So, while true in some circumstances, overall, I find your argument that failure to keep an animal to a pre-determined time, because of a disease condition, as indication of a welfare problem rather lacking in an understanding of nature and the evolution of disease causing organisms. Idealism is nice, but it should be tempered with understanding. Janice Willard, DVM, MS From: IN%"h.erhard@mluri.sari.ac.uk" "Hans Erhard" 15-FEB-2001 05:02:29.43 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: evolutionary models of food intake Dear all, A colleague asked me to send this message to the network, in the hope that there might be someone out there who can help him. Hans ************************************ > I am presently working on evolutionary models of food intake and in particular models which look at the costs and benefits of food intake. I am interested in hearing from anyone who has data on an animal's 'natural' mortality risk combined with some data on feeding behaviour (e.g., diet selection, foraging activity, food intake rate etc). I am also interested in hearing from anyone who has studied animals selected for increased longevity. Dr Jon Yearsley Macaulay Land Use Research Institute Craigiebuckler Aberdeen AB15 8QH U.K. Tel: +44 (0) 1224 318611 ext. 2435 Fax: +44 (0) 1224 311556 Email: j.yearsley@mluri.sari.ac.uk http://www.mluri.sari.ac.uk ********************************************* Dr Hans Erhard Macaulay Land Use Research Institute Craigiebuckler Aberdeen AB15 8QH Scotland - UK Tel.: +44 (0)1224 - 318611 Fax.: +44 (0)1224 - 311556 email: h.erhard@mluri.sari.ac.uk From: IN%"rondog@btinternet.com" "Jon Bowen" 15-FEB-2001 06:54:38.21 To: IN%"JNM@dmu.ac.uk" "Jeremy Marchant", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'Applied ethology '" CC: Subj: RE: fireworks I agree with Jeremy about getting the frequency range right bu there are a couple of things to add. Hearing may not extend much below 40 hz, but frequencies below this are still perceived. A low frequency thump can be felt in the body, not just heard. This is often the thing that limits the realism of a hi-fi system. Jon From: IN%"rondog@btinternet.com" "Jon Bowen" 15-FEB-2001 06:55:18.62 To: CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied ethology" Subj: RE: cow welfare and BSE Janice, > If I understand your argument here, you are saying that, if a >domestic animal becomes ill for any reason, and dies either >through the disease process or by euthanasia because of its >disease, then this is an indication of a welfare problem and a >failure of the husbandry system. No, you didn't quite get the point. I was suggesting that early slaughter is an issue [and indicator] of a welfare problem where the cause of disease is a result of some aspect of husbandry. This does not relate to the kinds of 'natural' disease process that you refer to. As a vet I do understand about disease, and I was quite careful to rule out the conditions you refer to. Mind you, I would hope that most husbandry systems are well enough conceived that these would be minimised. > Animals are frequently motivated by self interest; why not acknowledge that > humans are as well and work with that? This view is not a good basis for considering welfare is it? There are many unpleasant consequences that come out of this view, not least an absence of motivation to consider the welfare of animals or, logically, other people. I wonder what others think of this view of animal welfare? > Idealism is nice, but it should be tempered with understanding. Thanks for that Janice. I suppose I can expect this rudeness, having probably upset other in the past (most recently Carol, for which I apologise again). Jon From: IN%"meredith@farmline.com" "Michael Meredith" 15-FEB-2001 08:13:27.35 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Ethology Posting" CC: IN%"j.yearsley@mluri.sari.ac.uk" Subj: RE: evolutionary models of food intake There is a review entitled "Modelling Nutrient Utilization by Livestock Grazing Semiarid Rangeland" which may be useful to your colleague if he has not seen it, Hans. It has been published in the conference proceedings "Modelling Nutrient Utilization in Farm Animals" Another relevant publiction is "Feeding Systems & Feed Evaluation Models" edited by M K Theodorou & J. France Details of both books at: http://www.pighealth.com/MEDIA/P/BOOKS/NUTRIBKS.HTM MIke