From: IN%"jwillard@turbonet.com" "Janice Willard" 3-JAN-2000 01:36:58.29 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: predator question I hope that all of you had an enjoyable and safe New Years. I have a question about predatory behavior that I wished to ask your opinion. This is in regards to a predation problem which is occurring on my own farm: I have something of an old McDonald's farm with horses, cattle, sheep, goats, a llama, a flock of geese and some laying hens, plus dogs and cats. I have had predation problems with two groups; the cats and the poultry. I have lost several pet cats in the last year. Several strong pieces of evidence suggests that the cats have been killed by the local coyote population. I have also had 6 geese killed since September, and this is what has me puzzled. I have had a small flock of domestic geese that roams loose in the fields with the livestock. In September, I purchased some more at the county fair. I initially kept the new animals inside my back yard, which is fenced with a 5 to 6 foot wire fence, to get them used to the location. About a week later, one was found dead inside the fenced area and because there was a serious family problem going on at that time, I decided that they were all safer out with the resident flock and turned them loose. After some brief fighting, they settled down as two groups that traveled together, but stayed slightly separated from each other. In October, 3 of them (from the new goose group) vanished overnight and when I went looking for them, I found remains consistent with coyote predation. So I moved all those remaining back into the yard. Since then, I have had two geese killed inside the yard, several weeks apart, and the remains and kill pattern is not consistent with coyotes. In each case, the goose is driven into a corner and killed by bites to the body area. Only a portion of the carcass, generally the breast area, is ingested and the bones are left intact and there is minimal scattering of feathers (by contrast, when the coyotes kill the geese, there is a wide scattering of feathers and nothing else remaining). I have been trying to identify the predator before I lose the rest of my geese and have been considering what small predator this could be, which could enter the yard and only eats a portion of the kill. I have considered Great Horned Owl, fox, raccoon, skunk or badger, but for various reasons I have ruled most of these out as the most likely predator. Since it has been snowing lately, I have been going out early, (before letting any of my dogs and cats out) and seeing what tracks are in the snow from the previous night's activities. Outside the fence, I have found coyote tracks and their pattern now tells me how they have been successfully hunting my pet cats (which I plan to rectify). However inside my fence, the only tracks I have found have been from pheasant, cottontails and domestic cat footprints (my pet cats have been inside during this time). I have seen, at a distance, a large, grey tabby, feral, domestic cat and on one occasion, as I was following the tracks, I came across this cat in the daylight--and he was in the process of chewing on the carcass of the last killed goose (I left this out to see what was attracted to it). I have no doubts that a feral cat would feed on a goose carcass, but the question that I have is whether a feral cat would be capable of killing an adult domestic goose? I have had cats kill chickens before, but can they kill something as large as a goose? One of the killed geese was a China goose, which is a small variety, but the other two were Toulouse geese, which are heavier (maybe 15 pounds). Of course, I have only seen this feral cat at a run, but it appears quite large. He is also the only feral cat I have spotted in the area. I need to solve the predation problem before spring as the geese, once they start setting their eggs, are even more susceptible to predators and there are very few places that can keep out a cat, if he is indeed the predator. Next question: provided I find no other tracks to suggest another predator or I establish by some other way that he is the goose-killer, I will need to trap this cat. He comes in the yard often, so trapping him should not be difficult, but then what do I do with him? I will admit that I am pretty reluctant to destroy him, because, well, quite frankly, he is just plain beautiful. (My ability to be completely practical where beautiful animals are concerned is somewhat limited). Can a formally feral, highly predatory cat be reformed? If an attempt were made to tame him, would he still be highly predatory? Or if I were to offer him ample food in an alternate location, would he leave the poultry alone? Is there anyone familiar with feral cat research and the hunting capabilities of domestic cats? Any and all advice or opinions would be gratefully accepted. Janice Willard, MS, DVM Moscow, Idaho From: IN%"Nora_Lewis@UManitoba.CA" "Nora Lewis" 3-JAN-2000 14:17:16.27 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: tonic immobility To everyone who replied to my query on tonic immobility in rodents. Thank you very much. I have passed this information along to the graduate student. Nora -- Nora Lewis, Ph.D., DVM Department of Animal Science, University of Manitoba, 12 Dafoe Rd., Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. R3T 2N2 phone: 204 474-9443 fax: 204 474-7628 From: IN%"emilypk@bumail.bradley.edu" "Emily Patterson-Kane" 3-JAN-2000 14:29:54.89 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca'" CC: Subj: tail-chasing A query... In a dog behaviour ethogram I would consider grooming and play behaviours as normal. However I was wondering whether tail-chasing might be considered a behavioural 'vice', rather than a play behaviour. comments? Emily From: IN%"lcpmf@cca.ufsc.br" 3-JAN-2000 15:19:07.00 To: IN%"jjvandenbrink@hotmail.com" "jacqueline vandenbrink" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"DAIRY-L@UMDD.UMD.EDU" Subj: RE: Pinheiro Machado Filho, Luiz Carlos please reply Dear Jackie: Thanks for your msg. I will try to answer in one or two paragraphs... I am sending a copy to the Dairy List, but currently I am NOT a member of D-L. >Reply-To: "Dairy Discussion List." >To: DAIRY-L@UMDD.UMD.EDU Save Address >Subject: vet: AFTERBIRTH >Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 07:40:55 -0500 > >From: "Joel Stam" > > I've often wondered if there has ever been a study on the cow that eats >afterbirth. Yes, I did it. Below, I describe the main findings. More than 80% of the cows will eat their placenta if they have a chance. Literature in the subject, however, is not very big. There are some "case studies" about cows ingesting the placenta and having vomiting, anorexia, etc... I am not aware of any statistics on that. E.g from 1000 cows eating placenta, how many had problems? So far, I published four articles related to my thesis. One about the attraction of the parturient cow towards Amniotic fluid and placenta, a second on the effect of amniotic fluid ingestion on the thermal threshold of parturient cows. A third was the technique to measure the nociceptive response in cattle. A fourth was on the efect of placentophagia on feed intake, ruminal fermentation and colostrum production. At the end of the msg, you may see these references. There is, of course, the thesis. If anyone wants the reference... > I try to remove it as soon as it's let go,simply because that's >the accepted norm, but often the cow has already eaten it. Over time >I've done a little mental notetaking and have found that the one's that >consumed the placenta were no worse off at all. This makes me >wonder if there is a vital nutrient that we are not aware of and are >denying them. Also it seems to be an inborn instinct which may >suggest that it does have a place in the transition stage. > Any studies done? Experiences? Opinions? > > Thanks, > > Joel R. Stam > Herd Health Manager > Cedarmere Farm Ltd. >Chilliwack,British Columbia >: joelstam@dowco.com The idea of my thesis project first come to my mind after I asked in Elora Dairy (University of Guelph) "why do you remove the placenta" ? (here in Brazil most Holstein cows are under pasture, and calve there. Nobody bothers with the placenta). The answer was not very different from "that's the accepted norm". In two experiments I observed first 13 cows and after 64 around parturition. My main findings were: 1. Cows are only attracted to placenta (P) and amniotic fluid (AF) around parturition. They were attracted to donnor amniotic fluid and placenta, ie, AF collected from another cow, frozzen and defrosted in a microwave! The same with the placenta, but fewer cows were attracted to defrosted donnor placenta than to AF. They start to be attracted to AF about 12 h before parturition. 2. We have to distinguish between amniophagia: ie eating and licking the amniotic fluid and membranes, and placentophagia: ie eating the placenta. Amniophagia occur in almost all domestic species (the exceptions are perhaps some camelids) immediately after and some times even during or before the delivery of the calf. It includes licking the calf and eating any straw, grass or other food "contaminated" with AF. The placentophagic species I know (bovine, buffalo, bison, goat, sow, some deers) are either "hider" (or "layong-out") species or make a nest. The non-placentophagic (but amniophagic) as the mare, the wild beast, the sheep (?), eg, are "followers". 3. I found that cows ingesting the amniotic fluid at parturition had a significantly higher pain threshold at 1 hour after delivery of the calf. Placenta ingestion did not cause any effect (most of the time, the placenta would be delivered and ingested 4 h or more after delivery of the calf). These results indicate that the ingestion of amniotic fluid enhances the ongoing opioid-mediated analgesia at parturition. 4. The ingestion of AF or P did not change the behaviour of the cow towards the calf, neither the behaviour of the calf. 5. The placenta was found to have 65.8 % of CP, 40% of which was rumen soluble. The average dry matter intake per cow and per day during the three days following parturition was higher (P<0.03) in cows eating AF and P (11.1 kg) than in cows eating only AF (8.6 kg) and in cows not eating AF nor P (7.3 kg). Colostrum production in the second day of parturition was positively affected (P<0.03) by the ingestion of AF and PL. Sorry for the lenghty msg. The above are the main findings. If there is any interest about the adaptive value of placentophagia and amniophagfia, we may discuss it further. To finalize, only one question: why nobody bothers about beef cows eating placenta? Only because they are not at our sight at parturition? Perhaps we take this issue in a very antropomorphic way. Best regards, Luiz Carlos. At 11:00 24/12/1999 -0500, you wrote: >I think Luiz is member of this list...if not, could someone forward this to >him. > >This was a message posted on Dairy L. There were several replies, however >they were all to support removing the placenta before consumption. I know >Luiz did some research to support placentophagia in dairy cattle at Guelph >in 1996-97. I could read his thesis, but for this purpose a paragraph or >two would suffice. A journal reference would be great as well. > >Thanks, >Jackie VandenBrink >jjvandenbrink@hotmail.com > > REFERENCES: Machado LCP, Hurnik JF, King GJ Timing of the attraction towards the placenta and amniotic fluid by the parturient cow APPL ANIM BEHAV SCI 53: (3) 183-192 JUN 1997 Machado LCP, Hurnik JF, Burton JH The effect of amniotic fluid ingestion on the nociception of cows PHYSIOL BEHAV 62: (6) 1339-1344 DEC 1997 Machado LCP, Hurnik JF, Ewing KK A thermal threshold assay to measure the nociceptive response to morphine sulphate in cattle CAN J VET RES 62: (3) 218-223 JUL 1998 MACHADO FILHO, L.C.P.; HURNIK, J. Frank. 1999. Efeito da placentofagia no consumo alimentar, fermentação ruminal e produção de colostro de vacas periparturientes (The effect of placentophagia on feed intake, ruminal fermentation and colostrum production of periparturient cows). In: XXXVI Reunião Anual da Sociedade Brasileira de Zootecnia, Porto Alegre/RS. Anais da XXXVI Reunião Anual da Sociedade Brasileira de Zootecnia. Porto Alegre/RS: Gnosis, 1999. v. CD ROM. ----------------------------------------------------- Luiz Carlos Pinheiro Machado Filho, Ph.D. Universidade Federal de Santa Catarina CCA - Depto. de Zootecnia e Des. Rural Rodovia Admar Gonzaga, 1346, Itacorubi. Florianópolis, SC, BRASIL. 88.034-001 FAX: +55(0)48 334-2014 Fone: +55(0)48 331-9814 E-mail: LCPMF@cca.ufsc.br From: IN%"lcpmf@cca.ufsc.br" 3-JAN-2000 15:27:44.95 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"jjvandenbrink@hotmail.com" CC: IN%"DAIRY-L@UMDD.UMD.EDU" Subj: Placentophagia in cows Dear Jackie: Thanks for your msg. I will try to answer in one or two paragraphs... I am sending a copy to the Dairy List, but currently I am NOT a member of D-L. >Reply-To: "Dairy Discussion List." >To: DAIRY-L@UMDD.UMD.EDU Save Address >Subject: vet: AFTERBIRTH >Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 07:40:55 -0500 > >From: "Joel Stam" > > I've often wondered if there has ever been a study on the cow that eats >afterbirth. Yes, I did it. Below, I describe the main findings. More than 80% of the cows will eat their placenta if they have a chance. Literature in the subject, however, is not very big. There are some "case studies" about cows ingesting the placenta and having vomiting, anorexia, etc... I am not aware of any statistics on that. E.g from 1000 cows eating placenta, how many had problems? So far, I published four articles related to my thesis. One about the attraction of the parturient cow towards Amniotic fluid and placenta, a second on the effect of amniotic fluid ingestion on the thermal threshold of parturient cows. A third was the technique to measure the nociceptive response in cattle. A fourth was on the efect of placentophagia on feed intake, ruminal fermentation and colostrum production. At the end of the msg, you may see these references. There is, of course, the thesis. If anyone wants the reference... > I try to remove it as soon as it's let go,simply because that's >the accepted norm, but often the cow has already eaten it. Over time >I've done a little mental notetaking and have found that the one's that >consumed the placenta were no worse off at all. This makes me >wonder if there is a vital nutrient that we are not aware of and are >denying them. Also it seems to be an inborn instinct which may >suggest that it does have a place in the transition stage. > Any studies done? Experiences? Opinions? > > Thanks, > > Joel R. Stam > Herd Health Manager > Cedarmere Farm Ltd. >Chilliwack,British Columbia >: joelstam@dowco.com The idea of my thesis project first come to my mind after I asked in Elora Dairy (University of Guelph) "why do you remove the placenta" ? (here in Brazil most Holstein cows are under pasture, and calve there. Nobody bothers with the placenta). The answer was not very different from "that's the accepted norm". In two experiments I observed first 13 cows and after 64 around parturition. My main findings were: 1. Cows are only attracted to placenta (P) and amniotic fluid (AF) around parturition. They were attracted to donnor amniotic fluid and placenta, ie, AF collected from another cow, frozzen and defrosted in a microwave! The same with the placenta, but fewer cows were attracted to defrosted donnor placenta than to AF. They start to be attracted to AF about 12 h before parturition. 2. We have to distinguish between amniophagia: ie eating and licking the amniotic fluid and membranes, and placentophagia: ie eating the placenta. Amniophagia occur in almost all domestic species (the exceptions are perhaps some camelids) immediately after and some times even during or before the delivery of the calf. It includes licking the calf and eating any straw, grass or other food "contaminated" with AF. The placentophagic species I know (bovine, buffalo, bison, goat, sow, some deers) are either "hider" (or "layong-out") species or make a nest. The non-placentophagic (but amniophagic) as the mare, the wild beast, the sheep (?), eg, are "followers". 3. I found that cows ingesting the amniotic fluid at parturition had a significantly higher pain threshold at 1 hour after delivery of the calf. Placenta ingestion did not cause any effect (most of the time, the placenta would be delivered and ingested 4 h or more after delivery of the calf). These results indicate that the ingestion of amniotic fluid enhances the ongoing opioid-mediated analgesia at parturition. 4. The ingestion of AF or P did not change the behaviour of the cow towards the calf, neither the behaviour of the calf. 5. The placenta was found to have 65.8 % of CP, 40% of which was rumen soluble. The average dry matter intake per cow and per day during the three days following parturition was higher (P<0.03) in cows eating AF and P (11.1 kg) than in cows eating only AF (8.6 kg) and in cows not eating AF nor P (7.3 kg). Colostrum production in the second day of parturition was positively affected (P<0.03) by the ingestion of AF and PL. Sorry for the lenghty msg. The above are the main findings. If there is any interest about the adaptive value of placentophagia and amniophagfia, we may discuss it further. To finalize, only one question: why nobody bothers about beef cows eating placenta? Only because they are not at our sight at parturition? Perhaps we take this issue in a very antropomorphic way. Best regards, Luiz Carlos. At 11:00 24/12/1999 -0500, you wrote: >I think Luiz is member of this list...if not, could someone forward this to >him. > >This was a message posted on Dairy L. There were several replies, however >they were all to support removing the placenta before consumption. I know >Luiz did some research to support placentophagia in dairy cattle at Guelph >in 1996-97. I could read his thesis, but for this purpose a paragraph or >two would suffice. A journal reference would be great as well. > >Thanks, >Jackie VandenBrink >jjvandenbrink@hotmail.com > > REFERENCES: Machado LCP, Hurnik JF, King GJ Timing of the attraction towards the placenta and amniotic fluid by the parturient cow APPL ANIM BEHAV SCI 53: (3) 183-192 JUN 1997 Machado LCP, Hurnik JF, Burton JH The effect of amniotic fluid ingestion on the nociception of cows PHYSIOL BEHAV 62: (6) 1339-1344 DEC 1997 Machado LCP, Hurnik JF, Ewing KK A thermal threshold assay to measure the nociceptive response to morphine sulphate in cattle CAN J VET RES 62: (3) 218-223 JUL 1998 MACHADO FILHO, L.C.P.; HURNIK, J. Frank. 1999. Efeito da placentofagia no consumo alimentar, fermentação ruminal e produção de colostro de vacas periparturientes (The effect of placentophagia on feed intake, ruminal fermentation and colostrum production of periparturient cows). In: XXXVI Reunião Anual da Sociedade Brasileira de Zootecnia, Porto Alegre/RS. Anais da XXXVI Reunião Anual da Sociedade Brasileira de Zootecnia. Porto Alegre/RS: Gnosis, 1999. v. CD ROM. ----------------------------------------------------- Luiz Carlos Pinheiro Machado Filho, Ph.D. Universidade Federal de Santa Catarina CCA - Depto. de Zootecnia e Des. Rural Rodovia Admar Gonzaga, 1346, Itacorubi. Florianópolis, SC, BRASIL. 88.034-001 FAX: +55(0)48 334-2014 Fone: +55(0)48 331-9814 E-mail: LCPMF@cca.ufsc.br From: IN%"dreyn@sirius.com" "Donna Reynolds" 3-JAN-2000 17:25:05.91 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Predator Question Janice Willard wrote: I have seen, at a distance, a large, grey tabby, feral, domestic cat Janice... Any chance you are looking at a bobcat? > Several strong pieces of >evidence suggests that the cats have been killed by the >local coyote >population. >Outside the fence, I have found >coyote tracks and their pattern now tells me how they have >been >successfully hunting my pet cats (which I plan to >rectify). Lucky you to have so much nature in your own backyard! However, a question and concern... Don't you think the 'rectified' coyote will be quickly replaced by another (and another) who will continue to endanger your pets? Would a better plan be to keep your cats indoors at dark to avoid trouble (not to mention all the other predators that just love a good tasty cat snack)? best, Donna Reynolds From: IN%"dreyn@sirius.com" "Donna Reynolds" 3-JAN-2000 18:08:53.64 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: pet overpopulation in Europe? Below is a question forwarded from a dog rescuer who is working away at the overwhelming pet overpopulation problem here in the states (She's in So CA where the problem is extreme). Would any Europeans onboard care to respond? thanks, Donna Reynolds >I helped with a fund raiser last month for a local >Southern California >animal welfare organization. A woman came to have some >packages wrapped >for Christmas (that was the fund raiser) and she was from >Sweden. I >asked her about strays in Sweden. She said they didn't >have a pet >overpopulation problem and there aren't strays on the >streets of >Sweden. She also said that they don't necessarily spay >and neuter, but >people were very responsible about their pets. She said >that there are >no pet stores selling pets. >I believe in spaying and neutering pets and >responsible pet ownership and would like to see our >country not have to >euthanize companion animals because of people's >irresponsibility. >Does anyone know about Swedish pet laws or other European >countries' >laws> that DON'T have a stray pet problem? From: IN%"AShaad@aol.com" 3-JAN-2000 18:44:19.30 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Fwd: tail-chasing --Boundary_(ID_jKlwsP9q510FfpkebalKTA) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit --Boundary_(ID_jKlwsP9q510FfpkebalKTA) Content-type: message/rfc822 Emily Where I work (Wolf Park) we consider tail-chasing a vice - the wolf needs something else to do, like a walk or moved to a new environment. However, there is one wolf who also exhibits what can appear to be a stereotypical behavior of pacing back and forth in a figure-eight. While the track that is left appears to be stereotypical behavior, it really stems from the fact that she is an overly dominant wolf who likes to fence fight with her neighbors. To encourage other behavior, we starting taking this wolf into a large fenced field to free run. For several visits to this new area, she would continue to seek out a fence with a wolf on the other side, never straying far from a fence. Then we started taking her to fields with no other wolves around. She would still seek out the fences and look for other wolves, and never stray far from a fence (fear of open places?? place conditioning?? - never really figured which). Finally after several visits we were able to coax her further and further away from a fence, and she started to "enjoy" the open field as the other wolves always had. But she still fence fights back "home". A little off base from your query, sorry. :) Amanda --Boundary_(ID_jKlwsP9q510FfpkebalKTA)-- From: IN%"serpell@vet.upenn.edu" "James Serpell" 4-JAN-2000 09:21:05.65 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Fwd: tail-chasing I felt strangely compelled to respond to this one: > Where I work (Wolf Park) we consider tail-chasing a vice Tail-chasing is a normal component of play in many mammals. It can be recognized as play by its short bout duration, incomplete performance, and the fact that it occurs in the context of other typical components of play. Compulsive, stereotypical tail-chasing is a very different story: long (sometimes very long) bout durations, absence of other typical components of play, highly repetitive and uniform motor patterns, strong association with high arousal/anxiety states. It shouldn't be difficult to distinguish between the two except perhaps early in the development of the latter. Also, please can we abandon the use of archaic, value-laden terms such as "vice" when describing animal (or, indeed, human) behavior. >there is one wolf who also exhibits what can appear to be a stereotypical >behavior of pacing back and forth in a figure-eight. While the track that is >left appears to be stereotypical behavior, it really stems from the fact that >she is an overly dominant wolf who likes to fence fight with her neighbors. You may be putting the cart before the horse here. Stereotypical pacing and fence fighting are both fairly typical products of confinement in canids. Both appear to stem from the intense frustration and anxiety that some individual animals experience when physically restrained by barriers. To suggest that this wolf engages in these behaviors because she is "overly dominant" (whatever this means) or that she "likes" to fence fight, seems to imply that they are somehow her fault. James Serpell ___________________________________________________________________ Assoc. Prof. of Humane Ethics & Animal Welfare, Director, Center for the Interaction of Animals & Society, Dept. of Clinical Studies, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Pennsylvania, Tel: (215) 898-1004 3900 Delancey Street, Fax: (215) 573-6050 Philadelphia, PA 19104-6010, USA serpell@vet.upenn.edu http://www.vet.upenn.edu/cias/ From: IN%"rayenna_rhys@flad.com" "Rayenna Rhys" 4-JAN-2000 10:56:45.26 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology Discussion Group" CC: Subj: Mice, Breeding, and Vibrations I've spent several hours in the library attempting to unearth information on any effects that general building vibrations (i.e. people walking, equipment being on, moving equipment around) might have on breeding mice. I will spend another day or two on this but so far I haven't found anything. We have a client who thinks general building vibrations have a negative impact on fertility, but no research to support this opinion. Is anyone aware of any research on the effects of vibrations on fertility/breeding? There does appear to be research on noise levels, which obviously are "related"--all those activities that cause vibration, cause noise as well. However, architecturally, one reduces noise very differently than one reduces vibration so we can't fix both by fixing one. (OK, so that's not a good scientific approach, but it would make the client happy if it worked.) Perhaps I am simply not searching appropriately. Any suggestions, relevant articles, or individuals to contact, would be appreciated. Thanks. Rayenna Rhys Flad & Associates Madison, WI From: IN%"Maria_Correia/DGV@dgv.min-agricultura.pt" 4-JAN-2000 11:03:38.29 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: environmental enrichment Recently I started a master course on animal behaviour. On this I choo= se to do a literature review on environmental enrichment. I am mainly interested in the work done with farm animals, like poultry and pigs. S= ince now I couldn't find much information, so I wonder if someone has ideas= about where to find bibliography and which people to contact about thi= s subject . All the help its welcome Maria Jorge Antunes Correia General Direction of Veterinary Division of Animal Welfare Lg. Nac. Belas Artes, n=BA2 1200 Lisboa Portugal Fax:+351.1.3239565 e-mail: Maria_Correia@dgv.min-agricultura.pt tel: = From: IN%"rushenj@EM.AGR.CA" "Jeff Rushen" 4-JAN-2000 11:19:42.09 To: IN%"Maria_Correia/DGV@dgv.min-agricultura.pt", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: environmental enrichment An excellent starting place is: Newberry, R. Environmental enrichment: increasing the biological relevance of captive environments Applied Animal Behaviour Science 1995 44:229-243 Jeff Rushen *************************************************** Jeffrey Rushen, Ph. D. Dairy and Swine Research and Development Centre, Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, PO Box 90, 2000 Road 108 East, Lennoxville, Quebec, Canada J1M 1Z3 Ph: 1-819-5659174 ext 206 Fax: 1-819-5645507 Email: rushenj@em.agr.ca *************************************************** >>> 01/04 12:00 pm >>> Recently I started a master course on animal behaviour. On this I choose to do a literature review on environmental enrichment. I am mainly interested in the work done with farm animals, like poultry and pigs. = Since now I couldn't find much information, so I wonder if someone has ideas about where to find bibliography and which people to contact about this subject . All the help its welcome Maria Jorge Antunes Correia General Direction of Veterinary Division of Animal Welfare Lg. Nac. Belas Artes, n=BA2 1200 Lisboa Portugal Fax:+351.1.3239565 e-mail: Maria_Correia@dgv.min-agricultura.pt=20 tel: From: IN%"Frank.Odberg@rug.ac.be" 4-JAN-2000 13:28:30.87 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: complement to job announcement Univ. Ghent Dear all, I apologize for having no time to reply individually to all the people who requested some additional information. Therefore, please find underneath answers to the FAQ. * I think the job of "assistant" here could be compared with in Britain a combination between the function of demonstrator and the Ph.D. student. It's not a grant, it's a temporary State-paid job. * Lecturing: The assistant is normally not required to lecture (unless I'm ill e.g.). She/he should help with practical demonstrations. Ethology, behavioural problems and welfare is taught at the vet faculty as follows: - Introductory course of 30h, theory, 1st year (350/400 students)(from next year on; this year it's in the 2nd year (170/190). - The species-specific behavioural problems and welfare in the last year (6th)(+/-125 students) which is split up into 4 options (horses, ruminants, dogs/cats, pigs/poultry/rabbits) : various durations per speciality but not superseding 9h of theory and 9h of practicals per option. - Ethology and welfare of laboratory animals in the post-graduate course on laboratory animal science. An introduction of 3h theory for the FELASA C level, and 25h theory and 10h practicals for the D level. The assistant is required to help with the supervision of the student's thesis work in their last year. Average yearly number usually accepted for ethology: 4. * The research topic will have to built on the lab's experience, i.e. abnormal behaviour. A balance is sought between fundamental research carried out with a colony of voles (including neurofysiological and biochemical parameters) and research carried out with domestic animals, especially horses. Further research here should focus on the accurate behavioural and fysiological monitoring of the development of stereotypies in controlled laboratory conditions on the one hand, and the exploration of the mechanisms of crib-biting / windsucking / weaving / etc. in horses on the other hand. * The assistant will be asked to help with the applications for the lab's research grants. * Zoo animals were mentioned because we are sporadically consulted for problems with such animals. Research is difficult because one has rarely good control on the management. * Behavioural therapy: the faculty wishes that the assistant is involved to some extent with clinics. She/he will help a veterinarian who cares for the consultations for dogs & cats weekly on Friday morning. * The faculty is located outside the city along a motorway (+/- 7km from the city centre). Public transport is bad up to now. Personal transport is advisable. PS Belgium has a world reputation for its beer, chocolate and chips. These products are widely available. However, they are not included in the contract and we cannot guarantee they're dioxine-free... Prof.Dr.F.O.OEdberg Faculty of Veterinary Medicine Department of Animal Nutrition, Genetics, Production and Ethology Heidestraat 19 B-9820 Merelbeke tel: +32-(0)9-2647804 fax: +32-(0)9-2647849 From: IN%"margory@dnai.com" "margory cohen" 4-JAN-2000 15:41:14.39 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: animal intelligence on television? so public broadcasting in san francisco at least is broadcasting 3 1-hour programs, beginning tonight, here at 9pm, tonight and next 2 tuesday nights at 9pm, on animal intelligence. i don't know if this will be as good as some nature shows but.....i hope it will be better than local broadcast yesterday about all the pit bulls being put down. happy new year. margory From: IN%"g.kyrouac@worldnet.att.net" "Gary Kyrouac" 4-JAN-2000 15:43:25.49 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Fwd: tail-chasing This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_owW9rbW1WrCJuq8b9MCNCg) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable > Where I work (Wolf Park) we consider tail-chasing a vice >>Tail-chasing is a normal component of play in many mammals. It can be >>recognized as play by its short bout duration, incomplete performance, = and >>the fact that it occurs in the context of other typical components of = play. >>Compulsive, stereotypical tail-chasing is a very different story: long >>(sometimes very long) bout durations, absence of other typical = components >>of play, highly repetitive and uniform motor patterns, strong = association >>with high arousal/anxiety states. It shouldn't be difficult to = distinguish >>between the two except perhaps early in the development of the latter. >>Also, please can we abandon the use of archaic, value-laden terms such = as >>"vice" when describing animal (or, indeed, human) behavior. Maybe I am off base on this but it seemed to me what the poster was = driving at was that the staff at that facility utilize whatever means = available to enrich that animals environment so barrier frustration and = confinement anxiety are reduced to a minimum. I thought her saying that = the staff consider tail-chasing "a vice" was her way of saying that if = it becomes compulsive then other avenues must be experimented with to = relieve the animals frustration.=20 >there is one wolf who also exhibits what can appear to be a = stereotypical >behavior of pacing back and forth in a figure-eight. While the track = that is >left appears to be stereotypical behavior, it really stems from the = fact that >she is an overly dominant wolf who likes to fence fight with her = neighbors. >>You may be putting the cart before the horse here. Stereotypical = pacing and >>fence fighting are both fairly typical products of confinement in = canids. >>Both appear to stem from the intense frustration and anxiety that some >>individual animals experience when physically restrained by barriers. = To >>suggest that this wolf engages in these behaviors because she is = "overly >>dominant" (whatever this means) or that she "likes" to fence fight, = seems >>to imply that they are somehow her fault. I think you are reading too much into this paragraph. I came away with = no feeling of implied "fault." All I read was reasoning on the part of = someone who works with this animal as to how what might appear to be a = stereotypical behavior born of frustration or anxiety in an individual = animal may have another explanation. IMHO we are too quick to = compartmentalize animal behavior without taking into consideration = individuality. Since this individual works with this animal and from = the sound of it enjoys considerable interaction with it, then she is in = a better position to assign motives to her behavior than I am, sitting = out here in cyberspace and reading her post. Not trying to start a war, just putting in my two cents. Gary --Boundary_(ID_owW9rbW1WrCJuq8b9MCNCg) Content-type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
>    Where I work = (Wolf Park) we=20 consider tail-chasing a vice

>>Tail-chasing is a normal = component=20 of play in many mammals. It can be
>>recognized as play by its = short=20 bout duration, incomplete performance, and
>>the fact that it = occurs in=20 the context of other typical components of play.
>>Compulsive,=20 stereotypical tail-chasing is a very different story: = long
>>(sometimes=20 very long) bout durations, absence of other typical = components
>>of=20 play, highly repetitive and uniform motor patterns, strong=20 association
>>with high arousal/anxiety states. It shouldn't be = difficult to distinguish
>>between the two except perhaps early = in the=20 development of the latter.
>>Also, please can we abandon the = use of=20 archaic, value-laden terms such as
>>"vice" when describing = animal (or,=20 indeed, human) behavior.
Maybe I am off base on this but it = seemed to me=20 what the poster was driving at was that the staff at that facility = utilize=20 whatever means available to enrich that animals environment so barrier=20 frustration and confinement anxiety are reduced to a minimum.  I = thought=20 her saying that the staff consider tail-chasing "a vice" was her way of = saying=20 that if it becomes compulsive then other avenues must be experimented = with to=20 relieve the animals frustration. 
 
 >there is one wolf who also = exhibits what=20 can appear to be a stereotypical
>behavior of pacing back and = forth in a=20 figure-eight.  While the track that is
>left appears to be=20 stereotypical behavior, it really stems from the fact that
>she is = an=20 overly dominant wolf who likes to fence fight with her=20 neighbors.

>>You may be putting the cart before the horse = here.=20 Stereotypical pacing and
>>fence fighting are both fairly = typical=20 products of confinement in canids.
>>Both appear to stem from = the=20 intense frustration and anxiety that some
>>individual animals=20 experience when physically restrained by barriers. To
>>suggest = that=20 this wolf engages in these behaviors because she is = "overly
>>dominant"=20 (whatever this means) or that she "likes" to fence fight, = seems
>>to=20 imply that they are somehow her fault.
 
I think you are reading too much into = this=20 paragraph.  I came away with no feeling of implied "fault."  = All I=20 read was reasoning on the part of someone who works with this = animal as to=20 how what might appear to be a stereotypical behavior born of frustration = or=20 anxiety in an individual animal may have another explanation.  IMHO = we are=20 too quick to compartmentalize animal behavior without taking into = consideration=20 individuality.  Since this individual works with this animal and = from the=20 sound of it enjoys considerable interaction with it, then she is in a = better=20 position to assign motives to her behavior than I am, sitting out here = in=20 cyberspace and reading her post.
 
Not trying to start a war, just putting = in my two=20 cents.
 
Gary
--Boundary_(ID_owW9rbW1WrCJuq8b9MCNCg)-- From: IN%"DottieDais@aol.com" 4-JAN-2000 22:21:12.58 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Fwd: pet overpopulation in Europe? --Boundary_(ID_b1u4NKr0nFn+AQizP6pXBg) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit --Boundary_(ID_b1u4NKr0nFn+AQizP6pXBg) Content-type: message/rfc822 Hello! > Below is a question forwarded from a > dog rescuer who is working away at the > overwhelming pet overpopulation > problem here in the states > (She's in So CA where the > problem is extreme). >=20 > Would any Europeans onboard care > to respond? Sure. Hi! May I introduce myself? My name's Eva and I volunteer for a shelter in Germany. Here's out website: http://tierheim.bayreuth.org > >I helped with a fund raiser last month for a local >Southern California > >animal welfare organization. A woman came to have some >packages wrapped >=20 > >for Christmas (that was the fund raiser) and she was from >Sweden. I > >asked her about strays in Sweden. She said they didn't >have a pet > >overpopulation problem and there aren't strays on the >streets of > >Sweden. She also said that they don't necessarily spay >and neuter, but > >people were very responsible about their pets. She said >that there are > >no pet stores selling pets. > >I believe in spaying and neutering pets and > >responsible pet ownership and would like to see our >country not have to > >euthanize companion animals because of people's >irresponsibility. >=20 > >Does anyone know about Swedish pet laws or other European >countries' > >laws> that DON'T have a stray pet problem? I, too, see a major reason for the need of killing shelters in the availability of dogs and cats in pet shops. In Germany there are no cat or dog puppies on display in pet shops. So sources for these pets are (besides shelters) breeders (registered, BYB or mass breeders/ mills) as well as dealers (right word?) who usually advertise their pups in newspapers, magazine, the internet etc. We don't have a problem with stray dogs. In such a densly populated country dogs are supposed to be supervised by their owners when they go for a walk. Otherwise they get cought and will be brought to the shelter.=20 Stray cats are a problem, though. People are encouraged to spay/neuter their cats, however some people (especially in rural areas) don't. Still, stray cats will be cought and brought to the shelters if they are tame enough to be caught. There also is some effort to trap shy cats who have turned wild. These will be neutered, get shots and tattoos (?) and if it's safe they will be returned to the place they came from, where people feed them. In southern European countries stray dogs are a major problems and there are killing shelters, too. Therefore some rescue organisations buy dogs and cats from the shelters there and bring them to Germany to find them homes. The result is that older dogs in German shelters can't be rehomed so fast because people prefer the young and pretty dogs from the south.=20 Still of course the dogs in Spain, Italy, Hungaria etc. need help, too, so this is quite a bit of a topic in some shelters. I like the idea of European pet owners being more responsible, but infact they aren't really. It's mainly a matter of legal regulations and organisation that there aren't more stray pets in Germany. Obviously shelters still aren't superfluous. As long as puppy mills and dealers are allowed to do their nasty jobs the situation won't get any better. Just my 2 cents. All the best to all the people involved in rescue work who help to make pets' lives better. Regards, Eva P.S. Recently I asked the Tierschutzbund (a German equivalent to the SPCA) how it comes that there are no dogs and cats in pet shops. This was the answer I got: Der verantwortungsvolle Umgang mit Tieren bedingt auch eine artgerechte Haltung. Dies ist in bezug auf Hunde und Katzen in Zoofachgesch=E4ften kaum m=F6glich. Deshalb hat sich der Deutsche Tierschutzbund seit jeher daf=FCr eingesetzt, dass der Verkauf dieser Tiere in Zoofachgesch=E4ften unterbunden wird. Der Zentralverband Zoologischer Fachbetriebe Deutschlands unterst=FCtzt diese Forderung und gibt entsprechende Richtlinien an die ihm angeschlossenen Gesch=E4fte weiter.=20 Allerdings ist es aus der Sicht des Deutschen Tierschutzbundes dringend notwendig, den Handel und die Pr=E4sentation von Heimtieren noch deutlich strikter zu regulieren. So sind z.B. die wenigsten exotischen Tiere, dazu z=E4hlen auch Papageien und Schildkr=F6ten, in Privathaushalten artgerecht zu halten. Aber auch kleine S=E4ugetiere wie Hamster, Frettchen oder Rennm=E4use sollten aus der Sicht des Deutschen Tierschutzbundes besser nicht als Heimtiere angeboten werden. In case you'd like a translation of this email me. --Boundary_(ID_b1u4NKr0nFn+AQizP6pXBg)-- From: IN%"emilypk@bumail.bradley.edu" "Emily Patterson-Kane" 5-JAN-2000 10:51:26.75 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: tail chasing Thank to all re my tailchasing enquiry. My conclusion was that given the relative rarity of the behaviour, short bouts and the animals being juveniles, I guess its no biggie --- probably quite normal. Emily From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James Brody" 5-JAN-2000 14:01:52.29 To: IN%"Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com" CC: Subj: 6th Annual Aaron T Beck-ASCAP Award Colleagues: Please distribute the following. Also, please forgive me if you should receive duplicates! Many thanks and Happy New Year! James F. Brody Clinical Sociobiology http://forums.behavior.net/evolutionary =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Association for Across Species Comparisons and Psychopathology (ASCAP= ) and The Board of Directors of the Foundation for Cognitive Therapy and Resear= ch would like to announce the commencement of the application period for the= sixth annual Aaron T. Beck ASCAP Award. This $1000 award will go to the author of the best paper on a topic relating (broadly) to evolution and psychiat= ry that is submitted by a student or new investigator (person within two yea= rs of award of degree). The award is intended in part to support the winner's trip to the 2000 meeting of ASCAP which, this year, will be held in Amherst MA= on June 7, the day prior to the onset of the meeting of the Human Behavior a= nd Evolution Society. The winner will, at that time, present the winning paper in oral form (45 mins) and receive a commemorative plaque. Entries are d= ue May 1. Entries must not be previously published. All or part of the winning paper may be published in the ASCAP Newsletter. Applicants should submit four copies of their paper to: = Linda Mealey Psychology Department College of St. Benedict St. Joseph, MN 56374 USA = For further information, read the remainder of the announcement below. Additional questions can be posted to Linda Mealey at the above address, e-mailed to lmealey@csbsju.edu or FAXed to L Mealey at 1- (320) 363-5582.= = Please distribute this message broadly. Thank you. = = **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** = = THE ASCAP SOCIETY = The concerns of ASCAP members include evolutionary biology, sociophysiology, interpersonal and group relations, and psychopathology. ASCAP represents= a group of people who view forms of psychopathology in the context of evolutionary biology, and who wish to mobilize the resources of various disciplines and individuals potentially= involved so as to enhance the further investigation and study of the conceptual and research questions involved. This scientific society is concerned with the basic plans of behavior that have evolved over million= s of years and that have resulted in psychopathologically related states. We a= re interested in the integration of various methods of study ranging from cellular processes to individuals in groups. = Previous winners of the ASCAP award were: = 1999: Award not conferred = 1998: Bruce Ellis from Vanderbilt University, Nashville, USA wit= h "Psychosocial antecedents of variation in girls' pubertal timin= g: Maternal depression, stepfather presence, and marital and famil= y = stress." = 1997: Edward Hagen, University of California,Santa Barbara, USA with "Delusional and somatoform disorders as possible examples of = intraspecific exploitative mimicry in humans." 1996: Souhir Ben Hamida, Northwestern University, Chicago, USA with "Human mate preferences: Implications for the gender difference = in unipolar depression." 1995: Nicholas Allen, University of Melbourne, Melbourne, Australia with "Towards a computational theory of depression". From: IN%"margory@dnai.com" "margory cohen" 5-JAN-2000 20:03:13.88 To: IN%"serpell@vet.upenn.edu" "James Serpell", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: was tail-chasing -- the words we use ----- Original Message ----- From: James Serpell, Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 7:20 AM > I felt strangely compelled to respond to this one: /// > Also, please can we abandon the use of archaic, value-laden terms such as > "vice" when describing animal (or, indeed, human) behavior. /// >.... To > suggest that this wolf engages in these behaviors because she is "overly > dominant" (whatever this means) or that she "likes" to fence fight, seems > to imply that they are somehow her fault. may i say that i'm really glad you did. so many times i've turned off my computer in various forums when i read all the things ascribed to dogs and what they do and how they are when it's really such abuse of language and even philosophy and understanding of what is this creature, the dog and even more, our expectations of and about and from him? especially amongst people in positions such as are in this particular forum, where so much of some of the latest theories and/or dogma if you will are the stuff of daily work, where real influence and change and protection of these dogs can be made and found and provided for. if i hear one more dog described as "aggressive" when all he's doing is something really basic and not inappropriate aggressing, i tell you -- i worry. so thank you v. much indeed for following your compulsion -- for which thanks i suppose i will be "corrected" by someone else because it will have another proper label instead when all it really is is writing from the heart. margory cohen scottish deerhounds From: IN%"AShaad@aol.com" 5-JAN-2000 21:24:54.01 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: the language we use > if i hear one more dog described as "aggressive" when all he's doing is >something really basic and not inappropriate aggressing, i tell you -- i >worry. I feel I need to clarify some of my earlier statements. I did not go into such detail in the first place because the original post centered around a specific behavior with a specific concern in mind. While my response digressed somewhat from the query, I was simply attempting to illustrate how the physical evidence of such behavior can be misinterpreted without taking into account the whole picture. With that said, I will explain in more detail the aggressive behavior I was reffering to. Deneb is an eleven year old female wolf. She also happens to be quite aggressive towards other wolves. This is evident by her behavior - tail up in the air, raised hackles, tensed facial muscles, ears pricked, and attempts to make strong eye contact with other wolves. She does this towards male wolves (during the breeding season and out of it), females wolves, most dogs, and wolf pups from the age of 3 months and up. Towards people she is more relaxed - tail is held in a neutral, relaxed position, no hackles are raised, face is relaxed, and she is less apt to make strong eye contact. She also stalks her neighbors until they join her in racing back and forth along the fence (the fence-fighting). Yes, these are all components of normal (wolf) behavior. While her neighbors will fence-fight with her, they do not spend the majority of thier time doing so. The issue with Deneb however is that whe spends the majority of her waking hours engaged in this behavior. I hope this clarifies what I meant by overly aggressive behavior. It is not an expression I use lightly, in that I have seen too many animals described as such when there have been other causes/reasons for the exhibited behavior - many times in which the animal pays the ultimate price for the ignorance of the owner/keeper. Amanda Shaad From: IN%"sbc@kvl.dk" "Stine B Christiansen" 6-JAN-2000 03:59:09.85 To: IN%"dreyn@sirius.com" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: Vedr.: pet overpopulation in Europe? > Would any Europeans onboard care to respond? >Does anyone know about Swedish pet laws or other European >countries' >laws> that DON'T have a stray pet problem? The situation in Denmark is similar to what has been descibed for Sweden = and Germany: Cats and dogs are not sold from pet stores, there is a tradition of = responsible pet ownership especially concerning dogs, i.e. we don't have = any stray dog problems. Problems with stray cats are minor compared to = e.g. the US, usually they'll be caught, neutered and released.=20 I believe the difference is more due to tradition than legislation. = However, part of the explanation may be that many unwanted cats and dogs = are taken to the vet to be euthanised instead of being dumped somewhere or = left in a shelter to be rehomed.=20 It is open for discussion which strategy (euthanasia or rehoming) is = better for handling of unwanted pets and which may be considered more = responsible. Yours, Stine Stine B. Christiansen cand.med.vet. (DVM), MSc Det Dyreetiske R=E5d/The Danish Animal Ethics Council Den Kgl. Veterin=E6r- og Landboh=F8jskole/The Royal Veterinary and = Agricultural University Etologi og Sundhed/Ethology and Health Gr=F8nneg=E5rdsvej 8 1870 Frederiksberg C Copenhagen Denmark tlf./ph.: +45 3528 3075 fax: +45 3528 3022 e-mail: sbc@kvl.dk From: IN%"elfhund@hotmail.com" "Brenda Reed" 6-JAN-2000 17:40:12.15 To: IN%"DottieDais@aol.com", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Fwd: pet overpopulation in Europe? Hi. I would be very interested in a translation of the German text relating to animal shelters in that country. Thanks for the offer -- Brenda Reed >From: DottieDais@aol.com >To: Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca >Subject: Fwd: pet overpopulation in Europe? >Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 23:20:46 -0500 (EST) > > ><< message3.txt >> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: IN%"chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "Chris Sherwin" 7-JAN-2000 06:11:53.71 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: environmental enrichment Dear All, A while ago there was a request for references on environmental enrichment. Jeff Rushen replied citing Ruth Newberry's comprehensive review for farm animals. Other works which may be of interest for laboratory animals (Chamove, A.S., 1989, Environmental enrichment: a review. Animal Technology 40: 155-178) and for zoo animals (Sheperdson, Mellen and Hutchins (eds) 1998. Second Nature. Smithsonian Institution Press, Washington). Just as a note of caution, simply placing an object in an enclosure or cage and recording that it changes the behaviour or ethogram of the animal does not necessarily indicate this is an 'enrichment'. To 'enrich' means that the quality of the animal's life must have been improved somehow - simply changing an animal's behaviour does not mean its life is better. Just a thought. ---------------------- Dr. Chris M. Sherwin Division of Animal Health and Husbandry University of Bristol Langford House Langford Bristol BS40 5DU Phone: (0117) 928 9486 Fax: (0117) 928 9582 E-mail chris.sherwin@bris.ac.uk From: IN%"lauraquinlivan@hotmail.com" "laura quinlivan" 7-JAN-2000 12:46:03.88 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: animal intelligence on television? So, have you any opinions on the broadcast? I have been reading the book (given to me as a Christmas present from a caring, yet unenlightened friend), which is much more in-depth than the show could ever have time to explore. This happens to be my field of interest (I'm still an undergrad), and found the first segment to be quite well done, considering it's coming from an unscientific source. I'm interested to hear what other's thought about the first installment. >From: margory cohen >Reply-To: margory cohen >To: Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca >Subject: animal intelligence on television? >Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 13:27:36 -0800 > >so public broadcasting in san francisco at least is broadcasting 3 1-hour >programs, beginning tonight, here at 9pm, tonight and next 2 tuesday nights >at 9pm, >on animal intelligence. i don't know if this will be as good as some >nature >shows but.....i hope it will be better than local broadcast yesterday about >all the pit bulls being put down. > >happy new year. >margory > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: IN%"d.b.morton@bham.ac.uk" "David Morton" 11-JAN-2000 02:35:19.89 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: AABS 65 No 3 Dear AABS subscribers, The article by Rushen et al in Decembers AABS 65 No 3, pp 285-303 contains 3 blank pages (286, 287 and 290). Whether these are for us to make our own notes or comments on whilst reading it, I don't know. But have other subscribers the same problem or is it just Jeff passing a subtle message on to me? David Prof. David B. Morton, Head Centre for Biomedical Ethics, Division of Primary Care, Public and Occupational Health, (Director Biomedical Services Unit) University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, Birmingham B15 2TT UK Tel. + 44 (0)121 414 3616/4517 Fax + 44 (0)121 414 6979/6842 Email From: IN%"mappleby@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk" "Mike Appleby" 11-JAN-2000 02:54:42.86 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: AABS 65 No 3 David et al > The article by Rushen et al in Decembers AABS 65 No 3, pp 285-303 > contains 3 blank pages (286, 287 and 290). > But have other subscribers the same problem? No, my copy is fully printed. So you could find another copy and photocopy the missing pages or, if you think it's worthwhile, contact Elsevier. Mike Michael Appleby Dr M.C. Appleby Director of Postgraduate Studies in Agriculture & Resource Economics Institute of Ecology and Resource Management University of Edinburgh West Mains Road Edinburgh EH9 3JG, UK Tel. +44 131 535 4098 Fax. +44 131 667 2601 Email michael.appleby@ed.ac.uk From: IN%"Nora_Lewis@UManitoba.CA" "Nora Lewis" 11-JAN-2000 16:46:07.45 To: IN%"C.M.Nevison@liverpool.ac.uk" "Miss C.M. Nevison" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" Subj: RE: tonic immobility Charlotte, I received the following references. 1. Archer, 1973, Anim. Behav. 21: 205 2. Cowan, 1977, JPCP 91:63 3. Biol Abstracts has over a hundred hits for "tonic immobility" in the last 10 years. 4. Volgyesi, F. A. 1895, Hypnosis of man and animals with special reference to the development of the brain in the species and in teh individual. Translated by W. Hamilton, Publ.Williams and Wilkins, Boston, 1966. 5. Maser, JD and Gallop GG, 1977, Tonic immobility and related phenomena. Psychol. Record 27:177. In the same volume which has many other related papers is Carli, Animal hypnosis in the rabbit p 123. 6. AABS 61: 227 and 64:31 7. Jones et al 1988, Tonic immobility and heterophil/lymphocyte responses of domestic fowl to corticosterone infusion. Physiol Behav. 42:249 Hope this is a help to anyone interested. Thank you again to those who replied to my email. I have passed this information on to the graduate student. Nora "Miss C.M. Nevison" wrote: > Dear Nora, > > Is it possible to get a synopsis of the information you recieved? I > would greatly appreciate it. > > With regards, > Charlotte. > > On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Nora Lewis wrote: > > >To everyone who replied to my query on tonic immobility in rodents. > > > >Thank you very much. I have passed this information along to the > >graduate student. > > > >Nora > >-- > >Nora Lewis, Ph.D., DVM > >Department of Animal Science, > >University of Manitoba, > >12 Dafoe Rd., > >Winnipeg, Manitoba, > >Canada. R3T 2N2 > > > >phone: 204 474-9443 > > fax: 204 474-7628 > > > > > > -- Nora Lewis, Ph.D., DVM Department of Animal Science, University of Manitoba, 12 Dafoe Rd., Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. R3T 2N2 phone: 204 474-9443 fax: 204 474-7628 From: IN%"christoph.menke@teleweb.at" "Christoph Menke" 12-JAN-2000 14:14:52.81 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Observer for Husky Hunter 16 Hello, is there anybody who has an old version of the Observer program for Husky Hunter 16 and would sell this program? Christoph Menke christoph.menke@chello.at From: IN%"chris.gotman@sympatico.ca" 12-JAN-2000 17:14:47.12 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: [Appl. Ethology] Possibly Psychotic Zebra Hello, If any of you can help, either by recommending appropriate drug therapy or any other means of behaviour modification, short of castration, my collegue at the Washington Park Zoo would really appreciate it. You may mail directly to me if you prefer at chris.gotman@sympatico.ca , but please, by no means feel obliged to do so as I am subscribed to the list. I would be interested in hearing similar case histories involving horses of any species, and their outcomes. Knowledge is power, and discussion reveals new possibilities! Here is what my collegue has told me so far: <> << We have this guy on calm-X after he bit me and then pulled a keeper off a fence last week. We have gotten so desperate that we have even tried herbal remedies and an Animal communicator. We are worried that he will harm himself and then worried he will injure a staff member. We are also modifying some fences that have been fine for years but that he has discovered that he can just reach over enough to grab someone if they are in a compromised position. (That's how the last incidents happened.) This guy has had the best of everything, caring keepers, enrichment toys, etc. but something is obviously wrong and we are at a loss to figure out what.>> sincerely, Chris Gotman Granby Zoo Quebec, Canada mailto:chris.gotman@sympatico.ca From: IN%"elfhund@hotmail.com" "Brenda Reed" 12-JAN-2000 17:43:27.56 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Cats and trembling. Hello, all. A good new year to you. I have a cat, Stanley, who is an ordinary domestic feline and about six or seven months old. Within the last week I have noticed that when he purrs, a shuddering trembling runs through his body, mainly in his front legs, but also in his back legs, too. This happens most obviously when he is lying at his ease, relaxed but not asleep. When he falls asleep it stops and when he is alert and awake it does not occur. This trembling is obvious enough that I can see it across the room. I go to check on him, and sure enough, he's purring very quietly. My vet in this area is good, but people here do not put much money into their pets (many do not have much money to begin with). If there's a complicated problem, they tend to put the animal to sleep, especially cats. So I thought that I'd ask you all if anyone knew of such purr-related tremors. Sincerely, Brenda Reed ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: IN%"margory@dnai.com" "margory cohen" 12-JAN-2000 19:45:16.23 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: RE: [Appl. Ethology] Possibly Psychotic Zebra hello - may i show this to some trainers i know not on this list? margory ----- Original Message ----- From: chris gotman To: Applied Ethology Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 6:14 PM Subject: [Appl. Ethology] Possibly Psychotic Zebra > Hello, > > If any of you can help, either by recommending appropriate drug > therapy or any other means of behaviour modification, short of > castration, my collegue at the Washington Park Zoo would really > appreciate it. From: IN%"jeanpascal.guery@free.fr" "Jean-Pascal Guery" 12-JAN-2000 19:47:22.43 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Description of dog behavior This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_fmioAmAL81XVr9bHK3ekzg) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I've seen recently that some of you are working on dog behavior and can = use an ethogram of this animal. I think I didn't search as well as I = should, but I can't find any article about dog postures or attitudes. I = want to study how humans are abble to decode dog postures by presenting = to human adults photographies illustrating dogs in some attitudes. But I = can't start to take photos if I don't get a scientific description of = these attitudes (description and meaning, of course). Is there somebody abble to give me some references ? Thanks. I would like to send all my best wishes to everybody for the begining = brand new year ! Ragards from Paris. jeanpascal.guery@free.fr --Boundary_(ID_fmioAmAL81XVr9bHK3ekzg) Content-type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
I've seen recently that some of you are working on dog behavior and = can use an ethogram of this animal. I think I didn't search as well = as I=20 should, but I can't find any article about dog postures or = attitudes. I=20 want to study how humans are abble to decode dog postures by presenting = to human=20 adults photographies illustrating dogs in some attitudes. But I = can't start=20 to take photos if I don't get a scientific description of these = attitudes=20 (description and meaning, of course).
Is there somebody abble to give me some references ? Thanks.
 
I would like to send all my best wishes to everybody for the = begining brand=20 new year !
Ragards from Paris.
jeanpascal.guery@free.fr
=
--Boundary_(ID_fmioAmAL81XVr9bHK3ekzg)-- From: IN%"bregman@interactive.net" "VIVIAN BREGMAN" 12-JAN-2000 20:05:02.78 To: IN%"jeanpascal.guery@free.fr" "Jean-Pascal Guery", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Description of dog behavior At 12:23 AM 01/11/2000 +0100, Jean-Pascal Guery wrote: >>>> BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; COLOR: #000080; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; FONT-SIZE: 12pt } I've seen recently that some of you are working on dog behavior and can use an ethogram of this animal. I think I didn't search as well as I should, but I can't find any article about dog postures or attitudes. I want to study how humans are abble to decode dog postures by presenting to human adults photographies illustrating dogs in some attitudes. But I can't start to take photos if I don't get a scientific description of these attitudes (description and meaning, of course). Is there somebody abble to give me some references ? Thanks. I would like to send all my best wishes to everybody for the begining brand new year ! Ragards from Paris. jeanpascal.guery@free.fr There's a wonderful little book on this --- with many pictures --- by Turgid Rugaas on Calming Signals. Best wishes for the New Year --- Vivian Vivian Bregman -- dog trainer for forty years -- interested in everything to do with science, and animals, especially behavior --- vbregman@interactive.net From: IN%"lepape@univ-tours.fr" "Gilles LE PAPE" 13-JAN-2000 02:05:09.99 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Newfoundland dogs Hello all, I am interested in the past and actual situation of Newfoundland dogs : - are they longer in use to save people ? where ? - do they receive a special training ? where ? - are they more common in some countries ? - could anybody suggest me some references or books to begin a study of their behavior and history ? With best wishes of happy new year to everybody and many thanks in advance Gilles LE PAPE lepape@univ-tours.fr From: IN%"Hans.P.Kjaestad@veths.no" 13-JAN-2000 03:19:52.62 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Zebra behaviour problem Dear Chris Gotman and other list members, Here's a couple of suggestions:. a) It is probably routine to check this in the zoo, but are they 100% sure that both testes are fully descended? Undescended testes may after a few years develop tumours producing huge amounts of testosterone which could influence the animal's behaviour. b) At least some parts of the behaviour seem very similar to the stereotypic behaviour "flank biting" or "automutilation" observed in stallions. This behaviour is mentioned in most books and articles addressing stereotypic behaviour in the horse, but it is usually more briefly described than e.g. wind-sucking. As with any stereotypic behaviour, the aetiology of flank biting involves thwarted motivation, but motivation associated with social interaction and mating/copulation seems to be especially important. I find it interesting that the behaviour suddenly is worsening in spite of what seems to be a consistent and well thought out environment. This could mean that recent external stimuli are increasing the zebra's motivation to mate. Could he be picking up estrus scent from a female horse, donkey or additional zebra located elsewhere in the zoo? True, he has never mounted the mare he is stabled with, but are they sure that she is cycling? He may have been pushing her around out of frustration that she is not sexually receptive Good luck! Hans Petter Kj=E6stad The Norwegian School of Veterinary Science hans.p.kjaestad@veths.no From: IN%"margory@dnai.com" "margory cohen" 13-JAN-2000 07:33:57.48 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Description of dog behavior This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_R4wKND13inMBpBzRlV76UQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: VIVIAN BREGMAN=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 6:00 PM There's a wonderful little book on this --- with many pictures --- by = Turgid Rugaas on Calming Signals. hi - i like Turid too. but i like Roger Abrantes, Danish ethologist, even better: Abrantes, Roger. Dog Language, An Encyclopedia of Canine Behaviour. = Naperville, Illinois: Wakan Tanka Publishers, 1997.=20 Abrantes, Roger: The Evolution of Canine Social Behaviour. Naperville, = Illinois: Wakan Tanka Publishers, 1997.=20 i have also some older books from the '30's that go in to this as well = but this modern "encyclopedia" is well done, i think. i'll be watching for more replies, too. margory --Boundary_(ID_R4wKND13inMBpBzRlV76UQ) Content-type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 VIVIAN=20 BREGMAN
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, = 2000 6:00=20 PM
 
There's a wonderful little book on this --- with many pictures = --- by=20 Turgid Rugaas on Calming Signals.

hi - i like Turid too.
but i like Roger Abrantes, Danish ethologist, even = better:

Abrantes, Roger. Dog Language, An Encyclopedia of Canine Behaviour. = Naperville, Illinois: Wakan Tanka Publishers, 1997.

Abrantes, Roger: The Evolution of Canine Social Behaviour. = Naperville,=20 Illinois: Wakan Tanka Publishers, 1997.

i have also some older books from the '30's that go = in to this=20 as well but this modern "encyclopedia" is well done, i = think.

i'll be watching for more replies, too.

margory

 

--Boundary_(ID_R4wKND13inMBpBzRlV76UQ)-- From: IN%"arl3342@montana.com" "peggy shunick" 13-JAN-2000 08:08:06.77 To: IN%"jeanpascal.guery@free.fr" "Jean-Pascal Guery", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Description of dog behavior At 12:23 AM 1/11/2000 +0100, Jean-Pascal Guery wrote: >can't find any article about dog postures or attitudes. An older piece, but a personal favorite that shows up in a lot of bibliographies: Schenkel, Rudolf. (1967). Submission: Its features and function in the wolf and dog. American Zoologist, 7, 319-329. >I want to study how humans are abble to decode dog postures by presenting to >human adults photographies illustrating dogs in some attitudes. But I can't Here's one where they asked people to judge the liklihood of getting bitten from looking at pictures of dogs: Moss, S. P., & Wright, J. C. (1988). The effects of dog ownership on judgments of dog bite likelihood. Anthrozoos, 1(2), 95-99. Good luck on your project. Peggy Margaret A. (Peggy) Shunick BA, BA, MS (Tufts Center for Animals and Public Policy) PO Box 844 Arlee MT 59821-0844 USA 406-726-3342 arl3342@montana.com From: IN%"chris.gotman@sympatico.ca" 14-JAN-2000 18:45:39.87 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: [Appl. Ethology] re: Possibly Psychotic Zebra Hello, I've pasted below some further observations sent to me by Lane on the zebra. Note that when you use the reply function on the Applied Ethology list, the email is sent only to me. This is perhaps to reduce traffic to the list. As soon as I have more on the zebra, such as feedback on possible physical ailments and contact with specialists, I will post to the list. sincerely, Chris Gotman Quebec, Canada chris.gotman@sympatico.ca send to the list: mailto:applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca From: IN%"chris.gotman@sympatico.ca" 14-JAN-2000 18:59:56.63 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: [Appl. Ethology] update: Possibly Psychotic Zebra Hello again, Lane just sent me some more answers to some of your questions (see below). sincerely, Chris Gotman Quebec, Canada chris.gotman@sympatico.ca send to the list: mailto:applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: O.K. here goes on questions His testicles are fully descended Mare has not done much in the way of displaying that she cycles. She did show good milky urine the day he got real aggressive and pushed her out of the enclosure, however I have never seen her presenting for him. Until recently I have not been too concerned that she has not acted like she is in breeding heat because it was my understanding that Grant zebra mares should only begin strong active heat cycles at about three years old. We have discussed with our vet placing her on Regimen for two weeks to get a firm cycle so we would know for a fact that she is in heat on a given date. Our next step with her would be to anesthetize her and palpate her ovaries and/or culture her. -- No outward symptoms of physical ailments. Acts fine eating, urinating, defecating. We have not knocked him down for a complete physical. -- No other female equids except our two jenny donkeys that are bred and at the other end of the Zoo. --We sent tapes to Purdue equine behavorialists but got no response. Do plan on contacting some of these other behaviorists that you have given me contacts for. Time (or lack of) this past week has been a factor. -- Because we have started some yard remodels on his area this Tuesday (just coincidence) , we have had to build some temporary blind fence in one area and will be moving it to different areas as work progresses. He did not like the first one. Apparently blocked his view of what was happening down the road. Spends time trying to look through and had turned around and kicked it a couple times just for good measure. --Prior to coming here he had been housed with 1.2 adults, one of which was his mother. Estimated he weaned here as he came to us as a 9mo old. I have said it before, but will say again. This is why I love this linking of all this talent through the internet. What a great resource and mind bank for all of us. Pass on my thanks to the ethology group. Our vet feels like we may come up with some answers this time too. :-) Lane WPZ From: IN%"bregman@interactive.net" "VIVIAN BREGMAN" 14-JAN-2000 19:20:33.46 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: RE: [Appl. Ethology] re: Possibly Psychotic Zebra At 07:45 PM 01/14/2000 -0800, chris gotman wrote: >Hello, > > I've pasted below some further observations sent to me by Lane on the >zebra. Note that when you use the reply function on the Applied Ethology >list, the email is sent only to me. This is perhaps to reduce traffic to >the list. As soon as I have more on the zebra, such as feedback on >possible physical ailments and contact with specialists, I will post to >the list. > >sincerely, >Chris Gotman > Note that if you use the reply to all it goes to both the a-e list and to the person who wrote the post that you are responding to. Which is what I usually do --- that way the answer doesn't get lost in the general list posts. In this case as Chris seems to know this I have taken his address out and are sending it only to the list. Vivian learning about computers as I go along..... Vivian Bregman -- dog trainer for forty years -- interested in everything to do with science, and animals, especially behavior --- vbregman@interactive.net From: IN%"orion1432@juno.com" "D. B. Cameron" 14-JAN-2000 22:15:49.22 To: IN%"jwillard@turbonet.com" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: predator question On Sun, 02 Jan 2000 23:34:00 -0800 Janice Willard writes: > I hope that all of you had an enjoyable and safe New Years. > > I have a question about predatory behavior that I wished to ask your > opinion. This is in regards to a predation problem which is > occurring on > my own farm: (Deletions) > if he is indeed the > predator. > > Next question: provided I find no other tracks to suggest another > predator > or I establish by some other way that he is the goose-killer, I will > need > to trap this cat. He comes in the yard often, so trapping him > should not > be difficult, but then what do I do with him? I will admit that I > am > pretty reluctant to destroy him, because, well, quite frankly, he is > just > plain beautiful. (My ability to be completely practical where > beautiful > animals are concerned is somewhat limited). I guess that explains why most animal rights types don't get too involved with rats and roaches. Can a formally feral, > highly > predatory cat be reformed? Highly unlikely. IMO, the only reasonable therapy, should you decide on that, is to modify his environment. Specifically, permanent confinement; prevent any predatory activity. If an attempt were made to tame him, > would he > still be highly predatory? Almost without doubt. Predation is fun for the predator. It is not, neurologically, related to hunger. IMO, if this guy is the perpetrator, his behavior is a well learned, highly successful pattern that is not likely to be alterable. > Or if I were to offer him ample food in > an > alternate location, would he leave the poultry alone? > No! See above. > Is there anyone familiar with feral cat research and the hunting > capabilities of domestic cats? Any and all advice or opinions would > be > gratefully accepted. > > Janice Willard, MS, DVM > Moscow, Idaho > ^ ^ D. B. Cameron, DVM If there is no time like < \ / > Animal Behavior Clinic the present, but we ! ! don't have the time, .. is there no present? From: IN%"jkincaid@kawartha.com" "John Kincaid" 15-JAN-2000 08:56:43.86 To: IN%"akeys@peterboro.net" "akeys@peterboro.net" CC: IN%"AllCatsGreatandSmall@onelist.com" "AllCatsGreatandSmall@onelist.com", IN%"fauna.found@sympatico.ca" "anthony smith", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca'", IN%"lee@oncomdis.on.ca" "B.Bolender", IN%"BetsyKin@aol. Subj: [Fwd: [Fwd: MUST READ Virus Warning]] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_G9x5cjuz+Ami4Jjgv9p15g) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit --Boundary_(ID_G9x5cjuz+Ami4Jjgv9p15g) Content-type: message/rfc822 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_NapsBuIz4LyPMxvSo7bjcw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit --Boundary_(ID_NapsBuIz4LyPMxvSo7bjcw) Content-type: message/rfc822 MESSAGE FROM IBM FORWARDED FROM A CLIENT: We have been informed of a new virus - WOBBLER. It will arrive on e-mail titled "How to Give a Cat a Colonic." CALIFORNIA IBM and AOL have announced that it is more powerful than Melissa, there is no remedy.It will eat all your information on the hard drive and also destroys Netscape Navigator and Microsoft Internet Explorer. Do not open anything with this title and please pass this message on to all your contacts and anyone who uses your e-mail facility. Not many people seem to know about this yet so propagate it as fast as possible. This information was announced yesterday morning by IBM. Please share it with everyone in your address book so that the spreading of the virus may be stopped. This is a very dangerous virus and there is no remedy for it at this time. Please practice cautionary measures and forward this to all your online friends ASAP. --Boundary_(ID_NapsBuIz4LyPMxvSo7bjcw)-- --Boundary_(ID_G9x5cjuz+Ami4Jjgv9p15g)-- From: IN%"elfhund@hotmail.com" "Brenda Reed" 15-JAN-2000 13:47:08.91 To: IN%"chris.gotman@sympatico.ca", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: [Appl. Ethology] re: Possibly Psychotic Zebra I have to use "Reply All" to have email posted to the list and sent in reply to the individual writer. Brenda p.s. Contrary to some, I wish that all answers were posted to the list as a means of furthering the sharing of information. >From: chris gotman >Reply-To: chris.gotman@sympatico.ca >To: Applied Ethology >Subject: [Appl. Ethology] re: Possibly Psychotic Zebra >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:45:20 -0800 > >Hello, > > I've pasted below some further observations sent to me by Lane on the >zebra. Note that when you use the reply function on the Applied Ethology >list, the email is sent only to me. This is perhaps to reduce traffic to >the list. As soon as I have more on the zebra, such as feedback on >possible physical ailments and contact with specialists, I will post to >the list. > >sincerely, >Chris Gotman >Quebec, Canada >chris.gotman@sympatico.ca > >send to the list: mailto:applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: IN%"elfhund@hotmail.com" "Brenda Reed" 15-JAN-2000 13:57:51.59 To: IN%"orion1432@juno.com", IN%"jwillard@turbonet.com" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: predator question Hi, all. Could people please post information about research concerning feral cats and cat predatory behavior to the A-E list? I am very interested in learning of such studies myself. I do not care at all about the survival of roaches. I care even less about the survival of the flea. I'm not too keen on pesky little barking dogs with wet hair around their eyes and mouths. Good thing I'm not in charge of Nature! Brenda Reed >From: "D. B. Cameron" >To: jwillard@turbonet.com >CC: Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca >Subject: Re: predator question >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 20:11:59 -0800 > > > >On Sun, 02 Jan 2000 23:34:00 -0800 Janice Willard >writes: > > I hope that all of you had an enjoyable and safe New Years. > > > > I have a question about predatory behavior that I wished to ask your > > opinion. This is in regards to a predation problem which is > > occurring on > > my own farm: > >(Deletions) > > > if he is indeed the > > predator. > > > > Next question: provided I find no other tracks to suggest another > > predator > > or I establish by some other way that he is the goose-killer, I will > > need > > to trap this cat. He comes in the yard often, so trapping him > > should not > > be difficult, but then what do I do with him? I will admit that I > > am > > pretty reluctant to destroy him, because, well, quite frankly, he is > > just > > plain beautiful. (My ability to be completely practical where > > beautiful > > animals are concerned is somewhat limited). > > >I guess that explains why most animal rights types don't get too involved >with rats and roaches. > > > Can a formally feral, > > highly > > predatory cat be reformed? > >Highly unlikely. IMO, the only reasonable therapy, should you decide on >that, is to modify his environment. Specifically, permanent confinement; >prevent any predatory activity. > > >If an attempt were made to tame him, > > would he > > still be highly predatory? > >Almost without doubt. Predation is fun for the predator. It is not, >neurologically, related to hunger. IMO, if this guy is the perpetrator, >his behavior is a well learned, highly successful pattern that is not >likely to be alterable. > > > > Or if I were to offer him ample food in > > an > > alternate location, would he leave the poultry alone? > > > >No! See above. > > > > Is there anyone familiar with feral cat research and the hunting > > capabilities of domestic cats? Any and all advice or opinions would > > be > > gratefully accepted. > > > > Janice Willard, MS, DVM > > Moscow, Idaho > > > > ^ ^ D. B. Cameron, DVM If there is no time like > > < \ / > Animal Behavior Clinic the present, but we > ! ! don't have >the time, > .. is there no >present? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com