From: IN%"k9acad@iafrica.com" 18-JAN-1997 12:18:19.79 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Rage Syndrome Please can anyone throw some light on so-called "rage syndrome"/idiopathic aggression. For the first time in my career I have come across a true Jekylle and Hyde! He is a 4 year old neutered Border Collie who suddendly presented this behaviour after a bout of Babesiosis. (Perhaps a high temp. could have caused the onset of this behaviour?) He is a text book case from what I can gather - attacking savagely without provocation and the next minute as sweet as pie. I think Robin once mentioned successfully treating a spaniel with vitamin B6? Please Robin can you elaborate? Has anyone had any success with anti-convulsants? And if so what is the dose please? If anyone can please give me any information or help on this subject I'd be most grateful Thank you in anticipation. ********************************************************** NAME : GLYNNE ANDERSON E-mail : k9acad@iafrica.com ********************************************************** From: IN%"kckissan@alpha.delta.edu" "Kelly Caithlin Kissane" 18-JAN-1997 12:43:43.39 To: IN%"k9acad@iafrica.com" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology", IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Rage Syndrome RE: Rage I have a golden-retriever/Englihs Springer spaniel mix. When I took him for dog training, the trainer mentioned that English Springer spaniels were especially prone to Rage syndrome, and that the cause was believed to be genetic. English Springer breeders are currently trying to eliminate it from their lines. She also mentioned that Rage syndrome doesn't show up until the animal is 2 - 3 years of age. Kelly C. Kissane Grad student Central Michigan University arachnology/animal behavior From: IN%"kckissan@alpha.delta.edu" "Kelly Caithlin Kissane" 18-JAN-1997 12:45:57.87 To: IN%"k9acad@iafrica.com" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology", IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Rage Syndrome RE: Rage I have a golden-retriever/Englihs Springer spaniel mix. When I took him for dog training, the trainer mentioned that English Springer spaniels were especially prone to Rage syndrome, and that the cause was believed to be genetic. English Springer breeders are currently trying to eliminate it from their lines. She also mentioned that Rage syndrome doesn't show up until the animal is 2 - 3 years of age. Kelly C. Kissane Grad student Central Michigan University arachnology/animal behavior From: IN%"aa266@cleveland.Freenet.Edu" 19-JAN-1997 12:27:10.54 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Rage Syndrome In my experience, most diagnoses of "Rage Syndrome" are from a veterinary G.P. or a trainer who has met a dog that he/she is unable to deal with effectively. Reply to message from kckissan@alpha.delta.edu of Sat, 18 Jan > > > RE: Rage > > I have a golden-retriever/Englihs Springer spaniel mix. > When I took him for dog training, the trainer mentioned that English >Springer spaniels were especially prone to Rage syndrome, and that the cause >was believed to be genetic. English Springer breeders are currently >trying to eliminate it from their lines. She also mentioned that Rage >syndrome doesn't show up until the animal is 2 - 3 years of age. > > >Kelly C. Kissane >Grad student >Central Michigan University >arachnology/animal behavior -- DBC (aka D.B. Cameron, DVM) Animal Behavior Clinic Middleburg Hts., OH 44130 216/826-0013 Fax: 234-3407 From: IN%"Heeler@aol.com" 19-JAN-1997 15:32:41.12 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Rage Syndrome Dr. Nicholas Dodman of Tufts University in Massachusetts included a chapter on "rage syndrome" in his book, THE DOG WHO LOVED TOO MUCH (Bantam Books, 1996) According to Dodman, accurate diagnosis of seizure-related aggression requires a history of symptoms, a neurological examination, and an EEG. He advises exercising extreme caution in dealing with an affected dog, medicating with phenobarbital, and careful behavior monitoring. Euthanasia, he says, is a reasonable option. 100-percent cures are rare. He warns against keeping the dog if there are children in the household. Cheers, Margie, NY From: IN%"nop26342@mail.telepac.pt" "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nuno_Paix=E3o?=" 19-JAN-1997 18:57:58.93 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Rage Syndrome I=B4m Veterinary Behaviorist from Portugal, and I agree with Dr. Cameron = about " Rage Sindrome". The diagnosis from Dominance agression and Rage = sindrome it=B4s very dificult. But agree that rage sindrome exist but is = rare. The real diagnosis of rage sindrome must be done after a few tests, = like electroencefalogram. I belive that one epiletic focus in agression = center of the brain can show a very strong agression. I reenforce that rage sindrome is more rare. It=B4s more likely to be a = strong dominance agression. I=B4m sorry for my English but it=B4s not very good. I was in USA for a = few month working in Animal Behavior Clinic in tufts university but I = talk better than I write. Thank you, Nuno Paix=E3o, DVM, MVABS Animal Behavior Clinic Cl=EDnica Veterin=E1ria da Caparica Portugal Email: npa@mail.telepac.pt From: IN%"Petra.Mertens@lrz.uni-muenchen.de" 20-JAN-1997 01:27:51.76 To: IN%"k9acad@iafrica.com", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Rage Syndrome Rage vs. dominance aggression. It is not easy to diagnose properly and decide which problem you`re facing without a neurologic and behavior examination. In general, dominant dogs react aggressively in response to certain stimuli. If the situation occurred again, the likelyhood that the dog reacts in an aggressive manner the second time is very high. Usually, the dogs don`t tolerate dominant gestures or postures (touching their food - giving commads - make them do things they don`t like - bending over the dog - touching their back - walking bye too close - etc) including things which might seem perfectly fine to the "victim". The dogs seem moody and sometimes, attacks occur more frequently in the afternoon. As opposed to this, a dog sufferring from rage, will attack without provocation. The attacks are not related to certain situations. I would guess that only one out of 100 aggressive dogs suffers from rage. Breed predisposition: Certain breeds are show a higher percentage of dominance aggressive individuals within the population than others.Engl . Cocker Spaniels and Springer Spaniels do certainly belong to these groups. Age: Dominance aggression becomes a problem (or simply worse) when the dog matures - most dogs are presented to behavior clinics at age 1 or 2. Gender: males are generally more aggressive than females (approx. 2/3 of all dogs presented to our clinic for aggression are males). This effect is linked to the influence of testosterone. However, castration is not a 100% sollution in males. Chances to reduce aggression decrease with age. Serotonin: There`s evidence that dominance aggressive dogs have lower monoamine levels (CSF) compared to unaffected individuals ... treatment with serotonin reuptake inhibitors (like Prozac ...) is leading to limited success. It is thought that the disturbed impulse control is related to genetic defects (lack of tryptophan hydroxylase and MAOA). Some Ref FYI: Dodman et al. (1992). Phenobarbial-responsive episodic dyscontrol (rage) in dogs. J A V M A 201: 1580-1583. Dodman et al. (1996) Use of fluoxetine to treat dominance aggression in dogs. J A V M A 209: 1585-1587. Reisner et al. (1996). Comparison of CSF monoamine metabolite levels in dominant aggressive dogs. Brain research. 714: 57-64 Podberscek and Serpell (1996). The english cocker spaniel: preliminary findings on aggressive behaviour. Appl Anim Beh Sci 47: 75-89. Kulikov and Popova (1996) Association between intermale aggression and genetically defined tryptophan hydroxylase activity in the mouse brain. Aggressive behavior 22: 111-117. Cases et al. (1995) Aggressive behavior and altered amounts of brain serotonin and norepinephrine in mice lacking MAOA. Science 268: 1763-1766. Best wishes, Petra ______________ Dr. Petra A. Mertens Institute for Ethology and Animal Welfare Schwere-Reiter-Str. 9 80797 Muenchen petra.mertens@lrz.uni-muenchen.de From: IN%"heath@vetethol.demon.co.uk" "Sarah Heath" 21-JAN-1997 05:27:34.88 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"apbc4_um@ftech.net" CC: Subj: Feline and Canine addictions I have been approached by a colleague who is looking for information regarding feline and canine addictions and I wondered if anyone out there could help. He is interested in garden plants other than catmint which are associated with unusual behavioural reactions in cats.He also wants to know if there is any serious scientific literature regarding cats and dogs that show a particular liking for and reaction to plants, either outdoor or indoor. He cites the example of dogs snorting and chewing cannabis and wonders if anyone has any literature on that specific subject!! If anyone has anything to offer please contact me! Sarah Heath Behavioural Referrals 33 Hayman Road Brackley Northants Tel 01280 705231 Fax 01280 700882 Email heath@vetethol.demon.co.uk From: IN%"bs5prf@bath.ac.uk" "Paul Ferguson" 21-JAN-1997 10:09:30.69 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Wolves - sociobiology I am currently engaged in a final-year undergraduate course on Sociobiology and have been detailed to undertake a study of Wolf behaviour with regard to social evolution. I have comprehensively searched all the data bases I can find and have turned up a few interesting things but I wondered whether anyone would in this group would know of any further relevant references/contacts. Any help on this is greatly appreciated. Paul Ferguson. From: IN%"ascebra@eplinc.com" "Ann Scebra" 21-JAN-1997 10:34:53.29 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca'" CC: Subj: Introduction Hello network animal lovers. I just signed on to your network today in order to get as much information on ethology as possible. I will explain; my daughter is a junior this year and she is wanting to study animal behavior when she goes to college. She is not sure what the study consists of, so I found your WEB sight on the NET and thought I would contact some people that are studying the subject of animals and report my findings to my daughter Lisa. Is ethology the same as the study of animal behavior? Please give me any insight on this subject, (the pro's and cons) that you may feel is important. Thanks Ann Scebra Birmingham, Alabama USA Annie Have a good day! From: IN%"rushenj@EM.AGR.CA" "Jeff Rushen" 21-JAN-1997 13:58:48.12 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Assoc for the Scientific Study of Consciousness forwarded by Jeff Rushen rushenj@em.agr.ca From: PSYCOLOQUY ISSN 1055-0143 Saturday, 11 January 1997 Newsletter From: patrickw@cs.monash.edu.au (Patrick Wilken) Subject: (2) Announcement: Assoc for the Scientific Study of Consciousness We would like to call your attention to the Association for the Scientific Study of Consciousness (ASSC). ASSC is the first scholarly and scientific membership organization devoted to the study of consciousness and sister issues. It was set up last year with the aim of promoting rigorous analytic research on consciousness. The official purpose of the organization is to encourage research in cognitive science, neuroscience, philosophy, and other relevant disciplines in the sciences and humanities, directed toward understanding the nature, function, and mechanisms of consciousness. Currently most members come from the disciplines of cognitive psychology, philosophy, and neuroscience, but we are open to all scholars with a serious interest in the study of consciousness. As you know, the cognitive and brain sciences appear to be at a historic divide in reintroducing consciousness into scientific discourse. Philosophers, who have discussed issues of consciousness for centuries, seem to be coming to new and significant conclusions on the topic. Major breakthroughs in brain imaging, experimental psychology, and cognitive ethology have opened new ways to tackle empirically what has before only been the purview of philosophy. While no one can predict with certainty, the current boom in consciousness studies seems to have a solid enough foundation that we expect it to grow for a number of years. At the present time we have a board of distinguished contributors, an executive committee and officers - and only a small number of members. That was the only way to create ASSC. With the rapid rise in serious interest in our topic we expect to recruit many more members in the next year. Meanwhile, we hope you will see your early membership as a great opportunity to participate at all levels of the organization. The following projects are now running: 1. ASSC web page. This is the best overall source for information on ASSC activities, and we encourage you to visit often. You can check it out at . 2. Conferences. We are holding a three day conference in Claremont next June 13th thru 15th. The title of the conference is "What do implicit processes tell us about consciousness?" We intend to hold smaller satellite meetings in conjunction with relevant scientific conferences. This has already been done successfully in association with the 1995 Psychonomics Society meeting several months ago, and seems to be a convenient format for members of those societies, who can extend their stay by a day or so to attend an ASSC meeting. If you have suggestions as to other meetings you think we should fly our banner at please let us know by contacting Patrick Wilken . 3. Electronic seminars. Recently our first electronic seminar began, led by Jim Newman, on the topic of the thalamocortical bases for conscious experience. The seminar is available through the ASSC website, and through a specially set-up mailing list - ASSC-V (see the website for information on how to subscribe to the mailing list). We are very pleased indeed by the outstanding quality of the seminar dialogue so far -- log on to our web page and see for yourself. If you have ideas for future seminar topics please contact our seminar coordinator Bernard Baars . 4. Official ASSC journals. There are two official journals of the society for which members are entitled to a discount: "Consciousness & Cognition" from Academic Press (William P. Banks & Bernard J. Baars Eds.); and "Psyche: An international journal of research on consciousness", from The MIT Press (Patrick Wilken Editor-in-Chief). More details about subscriptions and discounts are available via our website. 5. Online bibliography. We have uploaded to the ASSC website the largest scholarly bibliography on consciousness we know of, compiled by Thomas Metzinger and David Chalmers. The bibliography is intended as an ongoing project. Members are invited to constantly add information about articles and books as they are published. As the database was originally developed with a philosophical audience in mind, it needs more items from other areas. Due to copyright restrictions we can only offer access to the database to ASSC members at this time. We would be very interested in hearing from anyone who who would be willing to take on an active role in upgrading the neuroscience and cognitive science sections of the database. Also we would like the help of a programmer to make the database even more responsive to members - perhaps allowing members to add comments or reviews of particular articles. If you can help in either of these matters or if you know of references not in the database please contact Thomas Metzinger . 6. Web links. Our website has links to a great number of useful resources for those interested in the study of consciousness. If you have any further suggestions please contact Patrick Wilken . Your ideas for additional activities are cordially invited. Sincerely, Bernie Baars President From: IN%"rushenj@EM.AGR.CA" "Jeff Rushen" 21-JAN-1997 15:54:20.61 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: North American regional ISAE meeting Dear North Americans (or those wanting to become one), a while ago I sent a message over the network about a conference in animal welfare to be held in Lennoxville (Quebec--- near Montreal---that is, in Canada-----you know, that cold place directly north from New York) on June 6. The plan was to hold a regional meeting of the North American ISAE the day after (June 7th). Before getting too organized I would like some idea of how many people would plan to come to such a meeting. Therefore could you send me a brief message: 1. if you would come to the ISAE meeting 2. if you would present a paper or poster. Jeff Rushen rushenj@em.agr.ca fax: 1-819-5645507 From: IN%"eoprice@ucdavis.edu" "Edward O. Price" 21-JAN-1997 16:45:17.44 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology-error" CC: Subj: RE: North American regional ISAE meeting Jeff: I probably will not be able to attend. I am already commited to four meetings this summer. Ed Price ---------- >From: applied-ethology-error >To: applied-ethology >Subject: North American regional ISAE meeting >Date: Tuesday, January 21, 1997 4:53PM > >Dear North Americans (or those wanting to become one), > >a while ago I sent a message over the network about a conference in >animal welfare to be held in Lennoxville (Quebec--- near Montreal---that >is, in Canada-----you know, that cold place directly north from New York) >on June 6. The plan was to hold a regional meeting of the North American >ISAE the day after (June 7th). Before getting too organized I would like >some idea of how many people would plan to come to such a meeting. > >Therefore could you send me a brief message: > >1. if you would come to the ISAE meeting > >2. if you would present a paper or poster. > >Jeff Rushen > >rushenj@em.agr.ca > >fax: 1-819-5645507 > From: IN%"mike.mendl@bristol.ac.uk" "Mike Mendl" 22-JAN-1997 03:34:27.30 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: address change - correction Dear all, An error already. My new tel. no. is 0117 928 9485 (NOT 9458). Sorry! Best wishes, Mike Mendl From: IN%"rushenj@em.agr.ca" "Jeff Rushen" 22-JAN-1997 04:21:07.58 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: North American regional ISAE meeting Dear North Americans (or those wanting to become one), a while ago I sent a message over the network about a conference in animal welfare to be held in Lennoxville (Quebec--- near Montreal---that is, in Canada-----you know, that cold place directly north from New York) on June 6. The plan was to hold a regional meeting of the North American ISAE the day after (June 7th). Before getting too organized I would like some idea of how many people would plan to come to such a meeting. Therefore could you send me a brief message: 1. if you would come to the ISAE meeting 2. if you would present a paper or poster. Jeff Rushen rushenj@em.agr.ca fax: 1-819-56455 From: IN%"rushenj@em.agr.ca" "Jeff Rushen" 22-JAN-1997 04:21:30.32 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: North American regional ISAE meeting Dear North Americans (or those wanting to become one), a while ago I sent a message over the network about a conference in animal welfare to be held in Lennoxville (Quebec--- near Montreal---that is, in Canada-----you know, that cold place directly north from New York) on June 6. The plan was to hold a regional meeting of the North American ISAE the day after (June 7th). Before getting too organized I would like some idea of how many people would plan to come to such a meeting. Therefore could you send me a brief message: 1. if you would come to the ISAE meeting 2. if you would present a paper or poster. Jeff Rushen rushenj@em.agr.ca fax: 1-819-56455 From: IN%"rushenj@em.agr.ca" "Jeff Rushen" 22-JAN-1997 04:21:58.05 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Assoc for the Scientific Study of Consciousness forwarded by Jeff Rushen rushenj@em.agr.ca From: PSYCOLOQUY ISSN 1055-0143 Saturday, 11 January 1997 Newsletter From: patrickw@cs.monash.edu.au (Patrick Wilken) Subject: (2) Announcement: Assoc for the Scientific Study of Consciousness We would like to call your attention to the Association for the Scientific Study of Consciousness (ASSC). ASSC is the first scholarly and scientific membership organization devoted to the study of consciousness and sister issues. It was set up last year with the aim of promoting rigorous analytic research on consciousness. The official purpose of the organization is to encourage research in cognitive science, neuroscience, philosophy, and other relevant disciplines in the sciences and humanities, directed toward understanding the nature, function, and mechanisms of consciousness. Currently most members come from the disciplines of cognitive psychology, philosophy, and neuroscience, but we are open to all scholars with a serious interest in the study of consciousness. As you know, the cognitive and brain sciences appear to be at a historic divide in reintroducing consciousness into scientific discourse. Philosophers, who have discussed issues of consciousness for centuries, seem to be coming to new and significant conclusions on the topic. Major breakthroughs in brain imaging, experimental psychology, and cognitive ethology have opened new ways to tackle empirically what has before only been the purview of philosophy. While no one can predict with certainty, the current boom in consciousness studies seems to have a solid enough foundation that we expect it to grow for a number of years. At the present time we have a board of distinguished contributors, an executive committee and officers - and only a small number of members. That was the only way to create ASSC. With the rapid rise in serious interest in our topic we expect to recruit many more members in the next year. Meanwhile, we hope you will see your early membership as a great opportunity to participate at all levels of the organization. The following projects are now running: 1. ASSC web page. This is the best overall source for information on ASSC activities, and we encourage you to visit often. You can check it out at . 2. Conferences. We are holding a three day conference in Claremont next June 13th thru 15th. The title of the conference is "What do implicit processes tell us about consciousness?" We intend to hold smaller satellite meetings in conjunction with relevant scientific conferences. This has already been done successfully in association with the 1995 Psychonomics Society meeting several months ago, and seems to be a convenient format for members of those societies, who can extend their stay by a day or so to attend an ASSC meeting. If you have suggestions as to other meetings you think we should fly our banner at please let us know by contacting Patrick Wilken . 3. Electronic seminars. Recently our first electronic seminar began, led by Jim Newman, on the topic of the thalamocortical bases for conscious experience. The seminar is available through the ASSC website, and through a specially set-up mailing list - ASSC-V (see the website for information on how to subscribe to the mailing list). We are very pleased indeed by the outstanding quality of the seminar dialogue so far -- log on to our web page and see for yourself. If you have ideas for future seminar topics please contact our seminar coordinator Bernard Baars . 4. Official ASSC journals. There are two official journals of the society for which members are entitled to a discount: "Consciousness & Cognition" from Academic Press (William P. Banks & Bernard J. Baars Eds.); and "Psyche: An international journal of research on consciousness", from The MIT Press (Patrick Wilken Editor-in-Chief). More details about subscriptions and discounts are available via our website. 5. Online bibliography. We have uploaded to the ASSC website the largest scholarly bibliography on consciousness we know of, compiled by Thomas Metzinger and David Chalmers. The bibliography is intended as an ongoing project. Members are invited to constantly add information about articles and books as they are published. As the database was originally developed with a philosophical audience in mind, it needs more items from other areas. Due to copyright restrictions we can only offer access to the database to ASSC members at this time. We would be very interested in hearing from anyone who who would be willing to take on an active role in upgrading the neuroscience and cognitive science sections of the database. Also we would like the help of a programmer to make the database even more responsive to members - perhaps allowing members to add comments or reviews of particular articles. If you can help in either of these matters or if you know of references not in the database please contact Thomas Metzinger . 6. Web links. Our website has links to a great number of useful resources for those interested in the study of consciousness. If you have any further suggestions please contact Patrick Wilken . Your ideas for additional activities are cordially invited. Sincerely, Bernie Baars President From: IN%"TAYLORA@EM.AGR.CA" "Allison Taylor" 22-JAN-1997 08:30:16.78 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: North American regional ISAE meeting -Reply Jeff - Yes on both counts. Allison Allison Taylor, PhD Centre for Food & Animal Research Agriculture & Agri-Food Canada Ottawa, ON taylora@em.agr.ca >>> 01/21/97 05:05pm >>> Dear North Americans (or those wanting to become one), a while ago I sent a message over the network about a conference in animal welfare to be held in Lennoxville (Quebec--- near Montreal---that is, in Canada-----you know, that cold place directly north from New York) on June 6. The plan was to hold a regional meeting of the North American ISAE the day after (June 7th). Before getting too organized I would like some idea of how many people would plan to come to such a meeting. Therefore could you send me a brief message: 1. if you would come to the ISAE meeting 2. if you would present a paper or poster. Jeff Rushen rushenj@em.agr.ca fax: 1-819-5645507 From: IN%"lhenley@MUW.Edu" "Lani Lyman-Henley" 22-JAN-1997 10:18:41.92 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "International Society for Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: wolf hybrids and deer meat Sorry, Sir Moderator, but I sent this first to the wrong address. I think I got it right this time :) Greetings and happy new year :) I know that there are plenty of folks on this list interested in dogs in general and a few interested in wolf-hybrids in specific, so I thought I'd toss out a question, albeit not very weighty. :) Yesterday I found my 2 dogs (one a wolf-hybrid) merrily chewing on the entire hind leg of a deer. Apparantly the neighbors butchered their deer in the carport and left the bagged remains there (they missed the garbage pickup). My dogs discovered the bag and you can picture the rest. The lucky hunters seemed very worried that I'd be upset that the dogs got hold of the carcass, while I had been worried they got it *before* it had been butchered! There seems to be a common idea that dogs shouldn't be allowed to eat fresh deer meat; that it gives them a "taste for blood" and may cause them to become more vicious. Other than a chance for picking up parasites, this doesn't seem likely to me on its face. Is there any real evidence either way (particularly with regard to hybrids)? *********************************************************************** Lani Lyman-Henley, PhD email: lhenley@MUW.edu Division of Science & Math phone: (601) 329-7245 (office) Mississippi University for Women P.O.Box W 100 Columbus, MS 39701 FAX: (601) 329-7238 WWW: http://www.msstate.edu/Dept/Psychology/lplh.html*See my baby picture! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside a dog, it's too dark to read." --Groucho Marx *********************************************************************** From: IN%"atp@servidor.unam.mx" "Alberto Tejeda Perea" 23-JAN-1997 13:36:06.43 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Int.Soc.Applied Etology" CC: Subj: looking for a broiler ethogram I need some help. My name is Alberto Tejeda Perea and I'm a master degree student.I'm working at Ethology and Wildlife Departament at Veterinary Faculty of Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico in Mexico City. My research proyect is about stress measurements on broilers and the enviromental enrichment effects on stress levels. I'm looking for some information about individual behavior in poultry and their social interactions, I will prefer these information in an ethogram way. And the effects of toys, like cold drinks cans and the use of perchs in enviromental enrichment I will really apreciate any help, it is important to have the most recently information about these. Thankyou Sincerely . Alberto Tejeda. From: IN%"serpell@vet.upenn.edu" 23-JAN-1997 13:39:04.98 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: postdoc position available POSTDOCTORAL POSITION AVAILABLE __________________________________________________________ A postdoctoral position (2 years) is available at the School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Pennsylvania for a person to study the development of behavior problems in domestic dogs. The study will involve recruiting and interviewing dog owners, observing dog behavior, and developing and validating questionnaire methods for obtaining accurate and reliable behavioral assessments of dogs from their owners. QUALIFICATIONS: PhD or equivalent in animal behavior/psychology/sociology; research experience with survey methods and multivariate statistical analysis essential; good interpersonal communication skills, and knowledge of dog and/or animal behavior/ethology desirable. Salary in the range: $19,608-29,500 depending on relevant experience. Send letter of application, recent CV, and names, phone/fax numbers/email addresses of at least three referees to: Dr. James A. Serpell ___________________________________________________________________ School of Veterinary Medicine, Dept. of Clinical Studies, University of Pennsylvania, 3900 Delancey Street, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6010. USA. Tel: (215) 898-1004 Fax: (215) 573-6050 serpell@vet.upenn.edu From: IN%"brousset@servidor.unam.mx" "Dulce Brousset" 23-JAN-1997 13:53:01.10 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: Looking for small wild cats ethogram To whom it may concern; I'm a veterinarian working at the Ethology and Wildlife Department of the Veterinary College, at the National University of Mexico; and also a PhD student with the project: "Comparative study on environmental enrichment, welfare and captive breeding of ocelots, margays and jaguarundis". And, as part of it, we are looking for small wild cats ethograms, specially from these mexican species; but we would be glad reviewing all the small felid behaviour references decriptions. And also we are interest if knowing if there are references on some of the other mexican felids: jaguars, pumas and bobcats for future researchs. I'll really appreciate any comment, information or reference that you think that could help related with the project. Looking forward receiving news from you, sincerely. MVZ Dulce Brousset. From: IN%"lhenley@MUW.Edu" "Lani Lyman-Henley" 23-JAN-1997 15:01:40.08 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "International Society for Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: wolfy responses Just wanted to thank the various folks who've responded to my query about deer meat and dogs/wolf-hybrids. I've enjoyed the stories and comments I've gotten so far! Monty Sloan sent some interesting behavioral (and physical) observations regarding dog and wolf responses to fresh meat, which may help explain where such ideas start (regarding primarily possessiveness of a special treat). Actually, I thought of one other note of interest (for you doggy types) regarding this story...I noticed that Kodiak (the hybrid) guarded the leg from Spencer (the dog) in the yard, but roles reversed when they were returned to their kennel. Spencer is older and I've noticed he is very territorial (good watchdog), but I was still surprised to see the apparant dominance roles change in different places. (BTW, both relinquished the leg to *me* promptly and without fuss :) ) Woof. ;> *********************************************************************** Lani Lyman-Henley, PhD email: lhenley@MUW.edu Division of Science & Math phone: (601) 329-7245 (office) Mississippi University for Women P.O.Box W 100 Columbus, MS 39701 FAX: (601) 329-7238 WWW: http://www.msstate.edu/Dept/Psychology/lplh.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "What you see with your eyes shut is what counts." -Sioux Medicine Man Lame Deer *********************************************************************** From: IN%"d.arey@ab.sac.ac.uk" 24-JAN-1997 08:16:16.64 To: IN%"Applied-Ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: F de Jonge email address Dear All Does anyone know of an email address for Francien de Jonge, Wageningen? Thanks Dale Dale Arey Animal and Feed Technology SAC Craibstone Estate Bucksburn Aberdeen, AB21 9YA UK AB21 9YA Tel: 01224 711058 From: IN%"d.arey@ab.sac.ac.uk" 24-JAN-1997 08:16:55.62 To: IN%"Applied-Ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: F de Jonge email Dear All Does anyone know of an email address for Francien de Jonge, Wageningen. Thanks Dale Dale Arey Animal and Feed Technology SAC Craibstone Estate Bucksburn Aberdeen, AB21 9YA UK AB21 9YA Tel: 01224 711058 From: IN%"k9acad@iafrica.com" 24-JAN-1997 09:42:23.02 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Rage syndrome To all those who wrote to me re. "rage" - your input was invaluable. Thank you so much. Very best wishes GLYNNE ANDERSON k9acad@iafrica.com From: IN%"CROWELL-DAVIS.S@calc.vet.uga.edu" "Sharon Crowell-Davis" 24-JAN-1997 11:40:59.18 To: IN%"k9acad@iafrica.com" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Rage Syndrome We have had cases in which the dog abruptly begins intensely aggressive behavior which is independent of external stimuli, followed by an abrupt return to being a "good dog", which responded to anticonvulsants. (I'd have to go digging into old case records to find the exact doses used.) One problem with treating aggressive-type psychomotor epilepsy is that, as with any epilepsy, you can have break-through seizures and in this case, the break-through seizure can result in substantial human injury. In any case, if this is suspected, I'd have a specialist in neurology evaluate the dog. Sharon Crowell-Davis > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:19:32 +0000 (GMT) > From: k9acad@iafrica.com > Subject: Re: Rage Syndrome > To: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca (applied-ethology) > Please can anyone throw some light on so-called "rage syndrome"/idiopathic > aggression. > > For the first time in my career I have come across a true Jekylle and Hyde! He > is a 4 year old neutered Border Collie who suddendly presented this behaviour > after a bout of Babesiosis. (Perhaps a high temp. could have caused the onset > of this behaviour?) > > He is a text book case from what I can gather - attacking savagely without > provocation and the next minute as sweet as pie. > > I think Robin once mentioned successfully treating a spaniel with vitamin B6? > Please Robin can you elaborate? > > Has anyone had any success with anti-convulsants? And if so what is the dose > please? > > If anyone can please give me any information or help on this subject I'd be > most grateful > > Thank you in anticipation. > > ********************************************************** > NAME : GLYNNE ANDERSON > E-mail : k9acad@iafrica.com > > ********************************************************** > > > > ********************************************** Sharon L. Crowell-Davis DVM, PhD Diplomate, American College of Veterinary Behaviorists College of Veterinary Medicine University of Georgia Athens, Georgia 30602 706-542-8343 FAX 706-542-0051 Email crowell-davis.s@calc.vet.uga.edu If a little knowledge is dangerous, where is the man who has so much as to be out of danger? T.H. Huxley On Elementary Instruction in Physiology From: IN%"dacserm@biol.unipr.it" 24-JAN-1997 12:55:04.33 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: F de Jonge email At 15:47 24/01/97, applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca wrote: >Dear All > >Does anyone know of an email address for Francien de Jonge, >Wageningen. > >Thanks > >Dale > > >Dale Arey >Animal and Feed Technology >SAC >Craibstone Estate >Bucksburn >Aberdeen, AB21 9YA >UK >AB21 9YA >Tel: 01224 711058 > Francien H. De Jonge, Dept. Anim. Husb., Univ. Wageningen, email: franciendejonge@etho.vh.wau.nl Davide Csermely -- _________________________________________________________________________ Davide Csermely Assoc.Prof. Vertebrate Zoology Dip. Biologia Evolutiva e Funzionale Intl. Phone: +39-521-905632 Universita` di Parma Intl. Fax : +39-521-905657 Viale delle Scienze Email: DACSERM@biol.unipr.it 43100 Parma, Italy URL : http://www.biol.unipr.it _________________________________________________________________________ From: IN%"marithe@mandic.com.br" "maria thereza" 25-JAN-1997 17:08:51.32 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: rage sindrome At 12:38 24/01/97 -0500, you wrote: >We have had cases in which the dog abruptly begins intensely >aggressive behavior which is independent of external stimuli, >followed by an abrupt return to being a "good dog", which responded to >anticonvulsants. (I'd have to go digging into old case records to >find the exact doses used.) One problem with treating aggressive-type >psychomotor epilepsy is that, as with any epilepsy, you can have >break-through seizures and in this case, the break-through seizure >can result in substantial human injury. In any case, if this is suspected, >I'd have a specialist in neurology evaluate the dog. > >Sharon Crowell-Davis > >If you have some bibliography about this , I would like to know . It is very dangereus , complicate and dificult cases . maria thereza cera galvao do amaral veterinarian (medica veterinaria ) maria.thereza@mandic.com.br marithe@mandic.com.br ( POP ) Sao Paulo - Brasil From: IN%"striquer@sercomtel.com.br" "Francisco Striquer Soares" 25-JAN-1997 20:05:58.69 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: wild bird behaviour My name is Elisiario Strike Soares (I am using the e-mail of my brother Francisco), I am a master degree student of Universidade Federal do Paran=E1= , Curitiba, PR - Brasil. I am working with Birds of forest (behaviour, nesting, feeding, etc.) I would like to know if there are somebody who have informations about wild birds behaviour (main Passeriformes) on Neotropical region. I will apreciate any help Thankyou Sincerely Elisiario Strike Soares. striquer@pop.sercomtel.com.br From: IN%"H.Randle@plymouth.ac.uk" "Hayley Randle" 27-JAN-1997 09:16:00.60 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: equine facial expressions Hello, I have recently been made aware that some work has been published on equine facial expressions. Does anyone know where this has been published and indeed who has done the work? Thanks for your time, Hayley (Dr. Hayley Randle) From: IN%"Frank.Odberg@rug.ac.be" "Frank Odberg" 28-JAN-1997 04:21:24.25 To: IN%"H.Randle@plymouth.ac.uk" "Hayley Randle" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: equine facial expressions Dear Hayley, I don't know about recent studies focussing on facial expressions (if there are I would be interested to hear about them myself). In most books on horse behaviour you will find a chapter on those parts of the ethogram. As far as I know, they are only descriptive. One can find discriptions already in articles by the pioneers of horse behaviour from the 30-ties till the 60-ties. Look for names such as Antonius, Grzimek, Schloeth, Trumler, Zeeb. Most of these publications are in German. Michael Schaffer gives personal "interpretations" of expressions in his book "Die Sprache des Pferdes" (has been translated: "The Language of the Horse"). I have no time now to type all the references here. If you can't find them, tell me and I can send you a photocopy of the literature from my B.Sc. thesis from 1969. I send you an courteous neigh. Frank Prof.Dr. Frank O. Odberg University of Ghent Dpt. of Animal Nutrition, Genetics, Production and Ethology Heidestraat 19 B-9820 Merelbeke Belgium tel: +32-(0)9-2521941 fax: 5304 From: IN%"Frank.Odberg@rug.ac.be" "Frank Odberg" 28-JAN-1997 04:23:59.08 To: IN%"H.Randle@plymouth.ac.uk" "Hayley Randle" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: equine facial expressions Dear Hayley, I don't know about recent studies focussing on facial expressions (if there are I would be interested to hear about them myself). In most books on horse behaviour you will find a chapter on those parts of the ethogram. As far as I know, they are only descriptive. One can find discriptions already in articles by the pioneers of horse behaviour from the 30-ties till the 60-ties. Look for names such as Antonius, Grzimek, Schloeth, Trumler, Zeeb. Most of these publications are in German. Michael Schaffer gives personal "interpretations" of expressions in his book "Die Sprache des Pferdes" (has been translated: "The Language of the Horse"). I have no time now to type all the references here. If you can't find them, tell me and I can send you a photocopy of the literature from my B.Sc. thesis from 1969. I send you an courteous neigh. Frank Prof.Dr. Frank O. Odberg University of Ghent Dpt. of Animal Nutrition, Genetics, Production and Ethology Heidestraat 19 B-9820 Merelbeke Belgium tel: +32-(0)9-2521941 fax: 5304 From: IN%"D.Goodwin@soton.ac.uk" "debbie goodwin" 28-JAN-1997 06:20:17.46 To: IN%"H.Randle@plymouth.ac.uk" "Hayley Randle" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: equine facial expressions Hayley, The best descriptions I've found, including illustrations, are in books by Horse Behaviour George Waring 1983 Noyes Publications ISBN 0815509278 The Horse's Mind Lucy Rees 1984 Stanley Paul ISBN 009153660X There are several agonistic ethograms in research papers which include descriptions of facial expressions during aggressive encounters, and I can provide details if necessary; but that's only part of the story, so the books above give a better all round description. Best wishes Debbie D.Goodwin@soton.ac.uk From: IN%"D.Goodwin@soton.ac.uk" "debbie goodwin" 28-JAN-1997 06:22:12.81 To: IN%"H.Randle@plymouth.ac.uk" "Hayley Randle" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: equine facial expressions Hayley, The best descriptions I've found, including illustrations, are in books by Horse Behaviour George Waring 1983 Noyes Publications ISBN 0815509278 The Horse's Mind Lucy Rees 1984 Stanley Paul ISBN 009153660X There are several agonistic ethograms in research papers which include descriptions of facial expressions during aggressive encounters, and I can provide details if necessary; but that's only part of the story, so the books above give a better all round description. Best wishes Debbie D.Goodwin@soton.ac.uk From: IN%"appleby@petbcent.demon.co.uk" "David Appleby" 28-JAN-1997 13:24:20.09 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: George Quinlan I think a George Quinlan has posted to this list in the past. If you are out there George please mail me your e-mail address. Speak to you soon. David ============================================ Name:David Appleby Address:The Pet Behaviour Centre, Upper street, Defford, Worcestershire. WR8 9AB.England. Phone and fax:+44(0)1386 750615 E-mail:appleby@petbcent.demon.co.uk WWW: http://webzone1.co.uk/www/apbc/pbc.htm ============================================ From: IN%"ju56359@televar.com" "Michael Ubelaker" 28-JAN-1997 16:46:07.85 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: canine/feline to human greeting behaviors I am interested in any instances and references for domesticated canine and feline greeting behaviors as they relate to humans, Changes in behavior that help to communicate across species lines, if (and why) these behaviors seem to be true to species when the greetings pass from dog to cat, but differ when humans are in the equation. Also interested in hearing anyone else's opinion on the article in February's SMITHSONIAN relating to "dog thought". (Phenomena, Comments, and Notes; by John P Wiley jr.) Thanks, Jennifer Ubelaker From: IN%"robin@coape.win-uk.net" "Robin E Walker" 29-JAN-1997 11:37:55.67 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Phenypropanalamine induced Aggression I urgently need information about any cases of aggression in dogs being triggered by medication with the alpha-noradrenaline agonist phenylpropanalamine for urinary tract dysfunction. Robin E Walker MRCVS From: IN%"galindof@servidor.unam.mx" "Victor Galves" 29-JAN-1997 13:15:12.50 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: discussion on pain in fishes Hello everyone ! I work in on fish pathology in the Vet School at the University of Mexico. I heard that in your group you had a discussion on fish pain. Does anyone who filed the exchange of opinions can send them to me ? I will be of great use and interest. Most grateful Victor Galves Depto. de Etologia y Fauna Silvestre Fac. de Medicina Veterinaria y Zootecnia UNAM Ciudad Universitaria 04510 Mexico D.F. MEXICO Tel. 52 5 6225859 Fax 52 5 5508697 From: IN%"galindof@servidor.unam.mx" "francisco galindo" 29-JAN-1997 16:24:20.40 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: discussion on pain in fish Hello everyone ! I work in on fish pathology in the Vet School at the University of Mexico. I heard that in your group you had a discussion on fish pain. Does anyone who filed the exchange of opinions can send them to me ? I will be of great use and interest. Most grateful Victor Galves Depto. de Etologia y Fauna Silvestre Fac. de Medicina Veterinaria y Zootecnia UNAM Ciudad Universitaria 04510 Mexico D.F. MEXICO Tel. 52 5 6225859 Fax 52 5 5508697 From: IN%"SPAZUR@gcwf.com" "Shannon Pazur" 29-JAN-1997 19:14:43.42 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Introduction Hello everyone! I'm fairly new to the network and wanted to take a moment to introduce myself. I recently graduated from college with a degree in Biological Anthropology & Anatomy, where the concentration of my coursework was in primate behavior and conservation. I am considering attending graduate school for primatology and/or animal behavior, and am seeking advice on university programs here in the United States. Any thoughts at all would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Shannon Pazur spazur@gcwf.com From: IN%"bob-nita@neosoft.com" "Robert E. Armstrong" 29-JAN-1997 22:15:38.33 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Advice I am a retired veterinarian with quite a bit of practical experience with aggressive dogs. Lately I consult with attorneys and victims of animal attack. One of my clients is in the courts now and the court has suggested that as terms of a settlement of a pending law suit, his neighbor will be directed to have his extremely vicious Rottweiler castrated and then undergo behavioral therapy. The man has already had his Husky nearly killed and his 16 year old daughter threatened. He likes the idea of castration (probably a little revenge) but he does not trust the idea of the dog getting psycho-therapy. Personally I go along with him, but I thought I'd ask the experts. Once bitten, twice shy. Thank you for any assistance. Sincerely, Robert E. Armstrong DVM MS Houston, TX From: IN%"aa266@cleveland.Freenet.Edu" 29-JAN-1997 22:38:30.53 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: canine/feline to human greeting behaviors Reply to message from ju56359@televar.com of Tue, 28 Jan > >I am interested in any instances and references for domesticated canine >and feline greeting behaviors as they relate to humans, Changes in >behavior that help to communicate across species lines, if (and why) >these behaviors seem to be true to species when the greetings pass from >dog to cat, but differ when humans are in the equation. >Also interested in hearing anyone else's opinion on the article in >February's SMITHSONIAN relating to "dog thought". (Phenomena, >Comments, and Notes; by John P Wiley jr.) >Thanks, Jennifer Ubelaker > As I see it, dogs and humans are much closer socially and have much more similar body language communication than dogs and cats. It is as if dogs and humans speak Spanish and Italian body language, while cats speak Norwegian. -- DBC (aka D.B. Cameron, DVM) Animal Behavior Clinic Middleburg Hts., OH 44130 216/826-0013 Fax: 234-3407 From: IN%"aa266@cleveland.Freenet.Edu" 29-JAN-1997 22:58:13.82 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Advice Reply to message from bob-nita@neosoft.com of Wed, 29 Jan > >I am a retired veterinarian with quite a bit of practical experience >with aggressive dogs. Lately I consult with attorneys and victims of >animal attack. One of my clients is in the courts now and the court has >suggested that as terms of a settlement of a pending law suit, his >neighbor will be directed to have his extremely vicious Rottweiler >castrated and then undergo behavioral therapy. The man has already had >his Husky nearly killed and his 16 year old daughter threatened. He >likes the idea of castration (probably a little revenge) but he does not >trust the idea of the dog getting psycho-therapy. Personally I go along >with him, but I thought I'd ask the experts. Once bitten, twice shy. > Thank you for any assistance. > Sincerely, > Robert E. Armstrong DVM MS > Houston, TX Since effective therapy for canine behavior problems absolutely requires that the handler be fully cooperative and committed to the therapy and the goals of the therapy, in a case like this the outlook for success would seem highly unlikely to hopeless. That is, one must assume that the Rotty owner either approves of his dog's behavior or he has no control over it. In either case, therapy to change the dog becomes impossible. The only hope for success would be if the owner really wants the dog to change, and has the courage, commitment, time, and money to apply to the task. Even then, safety can never be perfectly assured. -- DBC (aka D.B. Cameron, DVM) Animal Behavior Clinic Middleburg Hts., OH 44130 216/826-0013 Fax: 234-3407 From: IN%"F.Toates@open.ac.uk" "F.Toates (Fred Toates)" 30-JAN-1997 03:41:04.85 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: an hysterical dobermann Dear All, Our 4 year old female Dobermann goes hysterical when you try to clip her toe-nails, so much so that she now looks like Howard Hughes. She only gets clipped when she goes into kennels. Any advice on how to do it without driving her crazy? Regards, Fred From: IN%"heath@vetethol.demon.co.uk" "Sarah Heath" 30-JAN-1997 07:22:56.57 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Help please ! If anyone has the Email address for Kersti Seksel can they PLEASE let me have it as soon as possible. My Email address book has been wiped and I need to contact her urgently Many thanks Sarah Sarah Heath Behavioural Referrals 33 Hayman Road Brackley Northants NN13 6JA England Tel 44 1280 705231 Fax 44 1280 700882 Email heath@vetethol.demon.co.uk From: IN%"kckissan@alpha.delta.edu" "Kelly Caithlin Kissane" 30-JAN-1997 09:03:38.48 To: IN%"ascebra@eplinc.com" "Ann Scebra" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca'", IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Information Ms. Scerba, Please dont' discourage your daughter from pursuing a career that woul make her happy, despite the fact that it's not high-profile or has a large salary attached. Since I was 4 years old, I was fascinated by bugs and other animals. My first experiment involved capturing several worms and raising them to see if they turned into snakes. To my 4 year ol mind, the fact that both were legless meant that they must be the same, the worms had to be baby snakes! My mother, horrified that her eldest daughter played with bugs and worms instead of dolls and teacups, strongly discouraged my exploration, to the point of punishing me if she saw me handling bugs. The result was a young woman who pursued parentally acceptable careers like becoming a doctor and failed miserably because it truly wasn't what I wanted to do! Now at 35, I'm in graduate school doing what I love, what I had always loved - studying entomology and animal behavior. Yes, the career is very tough, the pay is low. But I'm happy. I woudl suggest that when she enters college, that she apply for undergraduate internships during the summer. She will be doing actual research, and will iscover the hard work and tedium. There will be plenty of time to change majors if she decides that is not what she wants to do. And Many, many universities have undergraduate internships during the summer. And yes, there are several other avenues that will allow her to work with animals. Forestry, wildlife technicians, zoo personnel, etc. The jobs are there for those who are persistent enough. Kelly C. Kissane Grad student Central Michigan University arachnology/animal behavior From: IN%"ascebra@eplinc.com" "Ann Scebra" 30-JAN-1997 09:20:21.87 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca'" CC: Subj: Information Hi everyone, I introduced myself to all of you a couple of weeks ago, but for you new comers, my name is Ann, my daughter Lisa wants to study animal behaviour when she graduates from high school. She is a junior right now so she has a couple of years to decide. I need advise to share with her on this study. She knows that it's hard work but I don't think she realizes how time consuming and how monotonous the study can be. She also thinks that it's easy to get a job once you have a degree and that you can make lots of money doing this. Someone please e-mail her and tell her the facts. I don't want my only child making any decisions that she may regret later. Also, are there other studies that she may want to consider, she does want to work with animals, but she doesn't want to go into veterinary medicine. PLEASE HELP!!!! Hans, If you're online please send your e-mail again that was sent yesterday, I lost it. My computer crashed. Annie Have a good day! From: IN%"kckissan@alpha.delta.edu" "Kelly Caithlin Kissane" 30-JAN-1997 09:20:38.11 To: IN%"ascebra@eplinc.com" "Ann Scebra" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca'", IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Information Ms. Scerba, Please dont' discourage your daughter from pursuing a career that woul make her happy, despite the fact that it's not high-profile or has a large salary attached. Since I was 4 years old, I was fascinated by bugs and other animals. My first experiment involved capturing several worms and raising them to see if they turned into snakes. To my 4 year ol mind, the fact that both were legless meant that they must be the same, the worms had to be baby snakes! My mother, horrified that her eldest daughter played with bugs and worms instead of dolls and teacups, strongly discouraged my exploration, to the point of punishing me if she saw me handling bugs. The result was a young woman who pursued parentally acceptable careers like becoming a doctor and failed miserably because it truly wasn't what I wanted to do! Now at 35, I'm in graduate school doing what I love, what I had always loved - studying entomology and animal behavior. Yes, the career is very tough, the pay is low. But I'm happy. I woudl suggest that when she enters college, that she apply for undergraduate internships during the summer. She will be doing actual research, and will iscover the hard work and tedium. There will be plenty of time to change majors if she decides that is not what she wants to do. And Many, many universities have undergraduate internships during the summer. And yes, there are several other avenues that will allow her to work with animals. Forestry, wildlife technicians, zoo personnel, etc. The jobs are there for those who are persistent enough. Kelly C. Kissane Grad student Central Michigan University arachnology/animal behavior From: IN%"k9acad@iafrica.com" 30-JAN-1997 10:10:50.97 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Advice > I am a retired veterinarian with quite a bit of practical experience > with aggressive dogs. Lately I consult with attorneys and victims of > animal attack. One of my clients is in the courts now and the court has > suggested that as terms of a settlement of a pending law suit, his > neighbor will be directed to have his extremely vicious Rottweiler > castrated and then undergo behavioral therapy. The man has already had > his Husky nearly killed and his 16 year old daughter threatened. He > likes the idea of castration (probably a little revenge) but he does not > trust the idea of the dog getting psycho-therapy. Personally I go along > with him, but I thought I'd ask the experts. Once bitten, twice shy. > Thank you for any assistance. > Sincerely, > Robert E. Armstrong DVM MS > Houston, TX You did not mention where these attacks had taken place? I think the answer will depend very much on the answer to that question. Did they take place on the defendants property, the dogs property or public property? Also under what circumstances? Was the dog on lead, did your client trip over it, or did she or husky take food away from it? etc.etc. Also you do not say how old the dog is - also very important because it's unlikely castration will make any impression on a mature dog. And as for "psycho-therapy" I guess all depends on the answers to the above questions and very much so on the behaviour consultants experience! ********************************************************** NAME : GLYNNE ANDERSON ADDRESS: Canine Academy 32 Hospital Rd., Hillcrest 3610, KwaZula Natal, South Africa. TEL/FAX: (031) 751958 E-mail : k9acad@iafrica.com WWW : http://webzonel.co.uk/www/apbc ********************************************************** From: IN%"k9acad@iafrica.com" 30-JAN-1997 10:27:38.71 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Information > Hi everyone, I introduced myself to all of you a couple of weeks ago, > but for you new comers, my name is Ann, my daughter Lisa wants to study > animal behaviour when she graduates from high school. She is a junior > right now so she has a couple of years to decide. I need advise to > share with her on this study. She knows that it's hard work but I don't > think she realizes how time consuming and how monotonous the study can > be. She also thinks that it's easy to get a job once you have a degree > and that you can make lots of money doing this. Someone please e-mail > her and tell her the facts. I don't want my only child making any > decisions that she may regret later. Annie Maybe your daughter has a gift? If not why deprive her of the of making her own mistakes? Go for it Lisa! GLYNNE ANDERSON Pet Behaviour Consultant (Loving every moment - money's not bad either!) From: IN%"mkhd@earthlink.net" 30-JAN-1997 16:21:18.90 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: aggressive Rottweiler Re: Advice Behavioural therapies can be very effective in changing a dogs behaviour (BTW this has very little to do with psycho-therapy). However, I agree with D. B. Cameron that the basis for success is the owner's full cooperation. Yet, I'ld like to stress another point: It is very unlikely that castration on its own is going to have any major positiv effect on this particular dog's viciousness. In fact, the Rotty could even turn worse after castration and attack both male and female dogs. His hostility towards people is not going to be altered anyway. In this case it might be best to have the dog wear a muzzle and/or make sure it is restrained safely to the owner's property. Regards, Sonja Doll-Sonderegger MSc zoologist/applied ethologist Dog behaviour therapist From: IN%"galindof@servidor.unam.mx" "francisco galindo" 30-JAN-1997 16:53:56.48 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Michael Phillips address Hello everyone !! Does anyone have Michael Phillips address? He works on primate behaviour in the U.S. Thanks Dr. Francisco Galindo Depto. de Etologia y Fauna Silvestre Fac. de Medicina Veterinaria y Zootecnia Ciudad Universitaria UNAM 04510 Mexico D.F. MEXICO Tel. 52 5 6225859 Fax 52 5 5508697 e-mail galindof@servidor.unam.mx From: IN%"Scanwyre@aol.com" 30-JAN-1997 18:44:21.85 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Advice Having dealt with aggressive dogs for many years I would question whether a dog that has almost killed a husky and threatened a 16 year old daughter can "merely"be treated with "therapy"and a castration . Rottweilers can be lethal animals in the wrong hands , and in my experience once aggression takes over ,usually end up having to be put down .(I am not saying it is impossible but I am saying it is very hard to ever trust such an animal 100%) . Could you really afford to take a chance in such a case- a rottweiler is no play thing ! Geraldine Ranken From: IN%"arion@dialatlanta.com" "Chris Redenbach" 30-JAN-1997 22:10:38.32 To: IN%"bob-nita@neosoft.com" "Robert E. Armstrong" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Advice Robert E. Armstrong wrote: > > I am a retired veterinarian with quite a bit of practical experience > with aggressive dogs. Lately I consult with attorneys and victims of > animal attack. One of my clients is in the courts now and the court has > suggested that as terms of a settlement of a pending law suit, his > neighbor will be directed to have his extremely vicious Rottweiler > castrated and then undergo behavioral therapy. The man has already had > his Husky nearly killed and his 16 year old daughter threatened. He > likes the idea of castration (probably a little revenge) but he does not > trust the idea of the dog getting psycho-therapy. Personally I go along > with him, but I thought I'd ask the experts. Once bitten, twice shy. > Thank you for any assistance. > Sincerely, > Robert E. Armstrong DVM MS > Houston, TX Dear Dr. Armstrong: It would seem that the first order that the court should give would be one to assure that the Rottweiler will be safely contained on his owner's property. Even if the owner is willing to comply with the order to train and modify the behavior of the dog, he cannot possibly control all the variable stimuli in an "at large" situation. People often react to Rottweilers in ways that obviate an aggressive response. Rottweilers are very territorially protective and very sensitive to possession and social dominance issues. They also tend to enjoy the thrill they get from intimidation. Huskies can also be quite scrappy with other dogs and are known for a tendency to roam, so one might also guess that the Husky could have been on the Rott's turf. You did not provide enough information about the occurrence and any history prior to the injury of the Husky. Nor did you say if the girl was "threatened' during the same incident or at a different time or times. You did not say whether the label "extremely vicious" was yours, the court's or the plaintiff's. Vicious is a very big word that, by itself, almost completely negates the possibility of success in turning the situation around. 1. Dog / dog aggression is very different than dog / human aggression. One is not predictive of the other. 2. There is a great deal of "superstition" surrounding Rottweiler aggression these days, so that it takes very little to elicit a less than thoughtful response to any incident of aggressive behavior by a Rottweiler. A painstaking analysis of the facts and background are necessary, as is an analysis of what occurred during the most recent incident to decide whether this occurrence contributes to the likelihood of future problems by the way it was handled or not handled. 3. Most of the Rotts I see in my practice are more likely to be overtly dog aggressive than people aggressive, and when they do show aggression towards people it is usually very ambivalent due to massive emotional confusion brought on by the mixed signals they have received all through puppyhood...meaning that the owner profile that often acquires a Rott, does so due to a combination of wanting a protection dog, macho image, what Dr. Bruce Fogle called the "I am a lion tamer!" owner who secretly enjoys a lack of control over the dog and the aggressive image, and then promptly brings up the dog in total confusion. They become afraid of the normal puppy biting stage that all breeds go through and usually use corporal punishment for it, thus making the pup confused and defensive. Then they encourage the pup to be paranoid by asking it "Who's there? Who's there?" even when there is no one there, so they teach it not to trust its own superior senses for detecting the presence of someone. They encourage it to bark at people who are doing nothing to be barked at, then they scold it for barking or growling at people who are doing more intrusive things. Example: bark at the guy across the street, but don't bark under pain of punishment at Uncle Ed who comes walking into the yard or house without waiting to be greeted. 4. Although many rotts go out of control these days, one would need to examine the percentages since they are so incredibly populace. Most that I meet are not likely to be so threatening to humans that they would pose an unacceptable threat if properly contained on the owner's property or under the owner's direct control and supervision. I am presently working with a lady who owns 5 rotts, 3 of whom managed to escape one evening and kill a neighbor's goat. These dogs are not aggressive towards people, although two of them tend towards fearfulness and will back up growling if they are approached by a person who is acting unsure or overtly assertive. It would be very normal for a teenage girl to consider this behavior a threat although this dog would dive through fire to avoid a confrontation. While I do not feel that they have good temperament, I do not feel that they are, separately, any threat to adolescent or adult humans. Of course, after any incident of a prey kill, I could not say that they would be safe around pre-adoloescent children. The focus of the behavior balancing and training that I am doing is twofold: 1. teach the owner how to express benign but very self assured leadership so that the dogs are willing to cooperate and obey without becoming stressed, confused or defensive; and 2.create in the dogs a new emotional association regarding the approach of people to alleviate the stressed and defensive feeling and allow the dog to look forward to making new friends. In the case of the Rott you are speaking of, the effects of neutering take time and are less comprehensive the older the dog, so this is of less short term significance than fencing and training. The results of training will depend upon the degree to which the problem is genetic; the way the key elements of the problem are identified and interpreted by the trainer / counselor; the understanding and compliance of the owner; the knowledge and competance of the trainer in choosing techniques that will both change the dog's motivation and teach the dog not to make his own decisions; the effectiveness of containing the dog in a way that outside stimuli will not continually compete against the behavior modifications attempted; long term consistency. Please inform me as to the results, and feel free to fill in any additional details. I tend to sway towards the possibility of success unless the facts are overwhelmingly stacked against it. However, aggression problems are the most frequently misunderstood. Sincerely, Chris Redenbach arion@dialatlanta.com Alliance Dog Training School Lawrenceville, GA From: IN%"Scanwyre@aol.com" 31-JAN-1997 00:14:05.83 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: an hysterical dobermann Hello Fred , In my experience when a dog is absolutely carzy and difficult about having their toe nails clipped it's because they have had a bad experince sometime during their former years . Whilst I was still in practice in Denmark I found it usually helped if I doped the dog down with methadone and then cut his townails . In the UK that would not be possible but any drug that would make the dog unable to move but capable of observing what is happening around him - ie dormitor could I think be used . The idea of the treatment is as follows :The dog is basically stoned out of it's mind and therefor unable to complain about the nail clipping procedure and if you make an effort to demonstrate while it is under the influence that the procedure does not inflict pain (in other words do not cut the nails so they bleed , as that is a painfull procedure and usually the original cause that made the dog so upset when getting it's toe nails cut ) . Usually this procedure only has to be done once or twice and whereas the dog is never 100% happy when you cut it's nails it will have understood that it is not as bad as he thought and will usually stand still and let you get on with it . Geraldine Ranken From: IN%"Anna.Olsson@sjv.se" "Anna Olsson" 31-JAN-1997 02:03:26.70 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: animal behaviourists in Portugal Dear Dr Paixao, it was interesting to hear your comments on the debate about rage syndrome in dogs. And I was very happy to hear from a veterinary behaviourist in Portugal. Since my husband - to -be is Portuguese, working at the University of Porto, I am looking for contacts within my field in Portugal, in order to find work there in the future. I would like to get in touch with people who work with behaviour of domestic animals in Portugal. As I understand, the field is not so big yet, but after seeing your name I got more optimistic. My own background is an MSc in animal husbandry with ethology as my specialisation. At the moment I work for the Swedish Board of Agriculture, with questions concerning animal housing/welfare and organic animal husbandry. Before this, I spent one year doing behavioural research (stress and rearing conditions) at Wageningen Agricultural University in the Netherlands. It would be great if you would write a few lines and tell me a bit more about what you work with and the activities in your field in Portugal! Yours sincerely, Anna Olsson animal housing & welfare - organic animal husbandry Swedish Board of Agriculture Division for Animal Production and Management S-551 82 Jonkoping Sweden e-mail Anna.Olsson@sjv.se tel +46-36-155000 fax +46-36-308182 From: IN%"appleby@petbcent.demon.co.uk" "David Appleby" 31-JAN-1997 04:54:03.27 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: aggressive Rottweiler Re: Advice On Thu, 30 Jan 1997 17:21:41 +0000 Dr. Martin K.-H. Doll wrote: >Yet, I'ld like to stress another point: > It is very unlikely that castration on its own is going to have any >major positiv effect on this particular dog's viciousness. In fact, the >Rotty could even turn worse after castration and attack both male and >female dogs. His hostility towards people is not going to be altered >anyway. There is an article on the behavioural effects of canine castration at: http://webzone1.co.uk/www/apbc/articles.htm All the best. David ============================================ Name:David Appleby Address:The Pet Behaviour Centre, Upper street, Defford, Worcestershire. WR8 9AB.England. Phone and fax:+44(0)1386 750615 E-mail:appleby@petbcent.demon.co.uk WWW: http://webzone1.co.uk/www/apbc/pbc.htm ============================================