From: IN%"robin@coape.win-uk.net" "Robin Walker" 16-JAN-1998 05:23:22.67 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology Network (E-mail)" CC: Subj: Heuristics of Hedony. Part II Good Morning! Where was I? Ah Yes.....'For example I heard yesterday of the two Jack Russell bitches which fight savagely when one attempts to leave the room with their joint male owner and the Valium therapy which or two weeks seemed to work and then made everything much worse..... I have invited the veterinarian who called in with the case to review everything and discuss with the owners the proposition that the case is (a) a typical bitch dispute about breeding rights (population density stat etc etc) and (b) the response of the aggressor bitch to valium might be explained in the context of hedonic regulation. Thus. Valium (diazepam) is useful for the control of violent mental patients and the tempering of acute psychosis in withdrawal from various drugs. However it is susceptible to liver clearance and metabolic breakdown by conjugation as is a host of drugs (notably phenobarbitone). Activation of liver (microsomal) enzymes means that after a time the patient is effectively on a lower dose of diazepam than at the outset. Low dosing with diazepam has accrued to itself some aphoristic tags. 1. Never give diazepam (or anxiolytics) to cases of fear aggression 2. Low dose anxiolytics will reveal repressed behaviours. 3. Women on chronic low dose Valium regimes may batter their babies because they are disinhibited from being moral.....so lock them up! All this appeals to the moral tyrant in us and is horribly plausible. Something in my remote (and I am convinced) Viking genes growls "hadawayanshite" which is Old Norse for "I think these data may bear an alternative interpretation" Because we have found (eurekame) that dogs on low doses of anxiolytic (for noise phobia) behave in an identical way to the separated dogs studied by Panksepp and treated with naloxone. In short agents agonistic at GABA receptors inhibit dopamine release. Agents which block opioid actions prevent disinhibition of the GABA inhibition. Thus the chemical expression of hedony (reward) is reduced or prevented. The sensation that this produces might be described as dysphoria, anhedonia, withdrawal symptoms or just plain frustration. The failure to achieve an expected reward can result in either more vigorous attempts to achieve the reward or a deepening of misery. According to the "temperament" or "breeding" of the sufferer the results may be as follows:- Panksepp's dogs resorted to face licking and attempts to solicit contact when given naloxone. My dogs given phenobarbitone are often reported as becoming nuisances; "always underfoot", "pestering for attention", "much more affectionate" and so forth. A depressed mother with a bawling, fractious infant, a ditto husband if he is there at all, a lousy income and horrid surroundings etc etc may have her "hedonic experience" even further lowered. She may smack the baby ! The Retriever who does not get to retrieve may suddenly fly at its owner after being on anxiolytics for a time. And of course this can all be tested by non-drug methods of inducing frustration and depression My wife's Border terrier "Pip" pissed in the toaster because I didn't take him out enough when my wife was away. His wife (Pickles) just was plain depressed and defecated on the back door mat. Inducing conditioned behavioural inhibition in a dog by means of hiding titbits and sound training discs can induce acute angry frustration in a suitable dog. In the field of Ethopharmacology I see problems when attempts are made to interpret social interactions as markers of anxiety in response to anxiolytics .... I must go and make a House Call!, Adieu Robin From: IN%"D.Goodwin@soton.ac.uk" "debbie goodwin" 16-JAN-1998 06:00:38.44 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Lecturer in Applied Animal Behaviour University of Southampton : New College Lecturer in Applied Animal Behaviour Applications are invited from qualified veterinarians for the above post. You will join a team of staff involved in developing and delivering a highly successful programme in companion animal behaviour and engaging in clinical research in this area through the practice of behaviour counselling. Working closely with colleagues in the Anthrozoology Institute, you will be expected to have teaching and research experience in animal behaviour and will have ideally engaged in behaviour counselling with clients, although support and training will be available. Salary will be in the range 16,045 - 27,985 (pounds sterling) per annum on the Lecturer Grade A/B scale. This post is offered for three years in the first instance. Application forms may be obtained from the Personnel Department(J), University of Southampton, Highfield, Southampton, SO17 1BJ, telephone number (01703 592750), e- mail: recruit@soton.ac.uk or minicom: (01703) 595595. Completed application forms should be returned no later than 9 February 1998. Please quote reference number J/248. Further info via Anthrozoology Institute web site http://www.soton.ac.uk/~azi/azi.htm From: IN%"D.Goodwin@soton.ac.uk" "debbie goodwin" 16-JAN-1998 11:06:01.06 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Bergmann's rule Does anyone have any references on Bergmann's rule in farm animals? (I've got lots of nice examples of pumas, moose, rats etc). Has anyone compared body mass index of animals of the same breed raised in cold/hot conditions? Can you get differences within the same generation (all other things being equal)? Many thanks Debbie D.Goodwin@soton.ac.uk From: IN%"hpeet@worldonline.nl" "Herman Peet" 16-JAN-1998 13:56:35.15 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'ethology'" CC: Subj: introduction Dear list, Please allow me to introduce myself as a new member to this list: My name is Herman Peet. I live in The Netherlands In my spare time I am = a dog training instructor at the Dutch SPCA, where we provide training = classes to the general public. The level of these classes is probably = comparable to the American Canine Good Citizenship classes. Last year I = completed a study for canine behaviour counseling. My interest in applied ethology is to broaden my knowledge on canine = behaviour. As I consider myself a newby in this area I probably will be = lurking the majority of time, absorbing your words of wisdom. Met vriendelijke groet / With best regards, Herman Peet "Kwispel" dog training and behaviour therapy Hoofddorp, The Netherlands e-mail: hpeet@worldonline.nl www: http://home.worldonline.nl/~hpeet From: IN%"taznik@webtv.net" 17-JAN-1998 13:36:35.82 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Cruciate Legimate Surgery - Cost Dr. Jeff- I am sure that there are other reasons for the lower cost-this dog has also been seen by the Dr.'s at Purdue, so even I was a bit shocked by the cost. Maybe I shouldn't have responded so quickly! Thanks, Karen From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 17-JAN-1998 19:19:32.92 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: Introduction Apologies! John Fentress led me here and I posted several remarks withou= t introducing myself but eventually noticed that others are making self introductions. Here goes. I trained in experimental/physiological and clinical psychology, taking in data and creating models since the late 60= s, however, there were twenty five year's wandering deserts while I worked i= n state institutions. I've worked for myself fulltime since 1990, making = on a July 4th the great leap from a state job into the livelier currents of private practice. My livelihood comes from behavior mod, psychopharm, ADHD, mania, depression, anxiety as expressed in children and adults. = Evolution is the only model that makes sense even when it's inconsistent with the diagnostic manuals. The notion of a "clinical sociobiology" is= a prime obsession and I would like to help make it real, even if the name flops. I have an on line forum on evolutionary psychology, found at www.behavior.net and will be teaching with Bob Wright, John Pearce, and Russ Gardner this summer on "Healing the Moral Animal: Lessons from Evolution." I'm more interested in Kuhn's "extraordinary science" rathe= r than "ordinary science" but want to apply the stuff. (Go figure!) = Meanwhile, the rest of you impress me a great, great deal and it's good t= o be in an oasis. Thank you for sharing ideas about life! Jim Brody jbrody@compuserve.com From: IN%"skolb@treko.net.au" "Steve Kolb" 18-JAN-1998 06:11:28.59 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology (E-mail)" CC: Subj: bonobos, dogs, hormones etc... I have a question, which maybe somebody here can answer.... I am pretty interested in bonobos and have often wondered why their behavior is so differant to that of chimps. (You could add humans in there somewhere if you wanted to) Now we know that ligands ( neurotransmitters, hormones, peptides) affect behavior. As the differant species evolved, could it be that each evolved to have endocrine systems that produce quite differant amounts of the various neurochemicals, so having a distinct effect on our behavior? I have tried in vain to get some data comparing chimps and bonobos, so far with no success. But it did occur to me the other day that maybe dogs could be looked at first up in this regard. Do breeds of dogs which are say known to be quite aggressive, show higher levels of testosterone for instance? Its just a thought, but it keeps reocurring, so maybe somebody here might know some answers. regards, Steve Kolb West Australia (skolb@treko.net.au) From: IN%"billcamp@cdsnet.net" 18-JAN-1998 14:21:36.81 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Autisim and M.I. FYI >>To: Bill Campbell >>Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 9:27 AM >>Subject: RE: Machiavellian Intelligence in Domestic Animals? >> >> >>I am late in receiving your messages as I've been away. I thought the >>following book might be of interest: "Next of Kin" by Roger Fouts (Morrow >>1997). Fouts is a chimpanzee researcher who has worked with autistic >>children and notes parallels in this book. >> >> From: IN%"a.kwint@noldus.nl" "Aurelia Kwint" 20-JAN-1998 02:59:13.82 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Video material wanted Please excuse cross-postings and my humble apologies if this message is off-topic. Noldus Information Technology invites submissions of video material related to the study of human or animal behavior, to be included in educational versions of its observational research software. If you have high-quality video material which has been used in a behavioral study, you can submit a video tape with corresponding data to compete in the Noldus Video Contest. All submissions receive a small gift. An international jury will select one winner for the main prize, a complete Digital Video Analysis System. Second and third prizes will also be awarded. Submissions must be received before 31 March 1998. Full details about the contest, including a contest form, can be found at http://www.noldus.com/news/contest.htm. If you do not have web access, feel free to email me to receive the contest form by fax. We look forward to your participation! Aurelia Kwint Consultant ______________________________________ Aurelia Kwint Consultant Noldus Information Technology b.v. Costerweg 5 P.O. Box 268 6700 AG Wageningen The Netherlands Phone: +31-(0)317-497677 Fax: +31-(0)317-424496 E-mail: a.kwint@noldus.nl WWW: http://www.noldus.com From: IN%"scrowell@calc.vet.uga.edu" "Sharon Crowell-Davis" 20-JAN-1998 07:56:30.18 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: behavior of laboratory dogs Back when I first introduced myself, a number of people asked for the reference for my research on the effect of exercise on the behavior of laboratory dogs. At the time, it was "work in progress". It has recently come out and, as it was published in a journal that many applied behaviorists don't regularly read, I am sending the complete reference. Clark JD, Rager DR, Crowell-Davis SL and Evans DE (1997) Housing and Exercise of Dogs: Effects on Behavior, Immune Function, and Cortisol Concentration. Laboratory Animal Science 47(5): 500-510. Individuals interested in reprints should contact Dr. JD Clark Dept of Medical Microbiology College of Veterinary Medicine University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602 USA Sharon Crowell-Davis ********************************************** Sharon L. Crowell-Davis DVM, PhD Diplomate, American College of Veterinary Behaviorists College of Veterinary Medicine University of Georgia Athens, Georgia 30602 scrowell@calc.vet.uga.edu If a little knowledge is dangerous, where is the man who has so much as to be out of danger? T.H. Huxley On Elementary Instruction in Physiology From: IN%"JGMORRIGAN@imail.nsac.ns.ca" "Jane G Morrigan" 20-JAN-1998 08:36:37.72 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: thanks for help! Thank you to all those who helped me out with my inquiry re heart-rate monitors for cows! I was thrilled to receive such a generous response, and I promise to return the favour to someone at sometime! Jane Morrigan Nova Scotia Agricultural College Truro, N.S. Canada From: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol" 20-JAN-1998 18:39:34.67 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "ISAE" CC: Subj: Introduction Hi Everyone I have already received numerous messages of welcome - thanks to those who sent them. I was informed that when I subscribed I sent the message to the list rather then the server and became a statistic for Jeff (Rushen)'s survey!! I have to make an even worse confession - I did not perform the subscribing; being computer/e-mail illiterate I got somebody else to do it for me!! I must first point out that my access to e-mail is an intermittent and possibly temporary thing, as I'm currently involved in some urgent work for the Minister. I work for the Queensland Government in the Department of Primary Industries (DPI) and within the Queensland Beef Industry Institute. I am employed as a researcher in behaviour and welfare, with the emphasis on beef cattle, although as I'm the only ethologist employed in research in the DPI, I'm often called upon for information on other species (such as kangaroos and crocodiles in the past!). I emigrated to Queensland in 1993 (and have since become an Aussie!), although I also did my PhD at Queensland Uni. (Brisbane) on pig social behaviour and space needs. Prior to coming out here I worked with the group at Roslin, Edinburgh on chook (chicken, to the uninitiated!) motivation and cognition. I am now based on a research station (Swan's Lagoon) which is south-west of Townsville (and due west of Bowen) and a little remote so that we do not have e-mail there. The station is about 360 sq km, on which we run about 4,000 head (we have our own breeder herd) of Brahman x Shorthorn cattle. My current research has been investigating factors (particularly siting and design of supplementation points) contributing to the individual variability of supplementary feed intake, and methods by which we can assist cattle to cope with some of the dramatic changes in their husbandry etc. e.g. such as when they are moved from extensive pasture to feedlots. So-called 'temperament' seems to be important in this. I am also developing an interest in ethics, as our experimental work has to be submitted to Animal Ethics Committees and approval obtained before we can conduct the work. I am involved in the re-vamping of this system. We currently have a controversy here about hot-iron branding on the cheek of cattle. Compulsory branding is part of our legislation and hot-iron branding is the only option we have in these remote areas. The issue is whether putting it on the cheek is 'worse' than on the rump/ribs/shoulder. I have been unable to find any objective data on this, but if anybody can provide me with information I'd be pleased to get it. I have a deadline of 11th February. I look forward to hearing from some of you and participating in this group - if I manage to remain on e-mail!!! Carol Petherick From: IN%"jamench@ucdavis.edu" "Joy A. Mench" 20-JAN-1998 19:08:38.22 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "appl-ethol" CC: Subj: FW: Introduction Carole, Welcome to applied-ethology! Can you send us all your e-mail address so that we can get in touch with you? (in my mail system, the only return e-mail address that appears is the address of the list). Joy Mench ---------- From: applied-ethology-error To: ISAE Subject: Introduction Date: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 10:26AM Hi Everyone I have already received numerous messages of welcome - thanks to those who sent them. I was informed that when I subscribed I sent the message to the list rather then the server and became a statistic for Jeff (Rushen)'s survey!! I have to make an even worse confession - I did not perform the subscribing; being computer/e-mail illiterate I got somebody else to do it for me!! I must first point out that my access to e-mail is an intermittent and possibly temporary thing, as I'm currently involved in some urgent work for the Minister. I work for the Queensland Government in the Department of Primary Industries (DPI) and within the Queensland Beef Industry Institute. I am employed as a researcher in behaviour and welfare, with the emphasis on beef cattle, although as I'm the only ethologist employed in research in the DPI, I'm often called upon for information on other species (such as kangaroos and crocodiles in the past!). I emigrated to Queensland in 1993 (and have since become an Aussie!), although I also did my PhD at Queensland Uni. (Brisbane) on pig social behaviour and space needs. Prior to coming out here I worked with the group at Roslin, Edinburgh on chook (chicken, to the uninitiated!) motivation and cognition. I am now based on a research station (Swan's Lagoon) which is south-west of Townsville (and due west of Bowen) and a little remote so that we do not have e-mail there. The station is about 360 sq km, on which we run about 4,000 head (we have our own breeder herd) of Brahman x Shorthorn cattle. My current research has been investigating factors (particularly siting and design of supplementation points) contributing to the individual variability of supplementary feed intake, and methods by which we can assist cattle to cope with some of the dramatic changes in their husbandry etc. e.g. such as when they are moved from extensive pasture to feedlots. So-called 'temperament' seems to be important in this. I am also developing an interest in ethics, as our experimental work has to be submitted to Animal Ethics Committees and approval obtained before we can conduct the work. I am involved in the re-vamping of this system. We currently have a controversy here about hot-iron branding on the cheek of cattle. Compulsory branding is part of our legislation and hot-iron branding is the only option we have in these remote areas. The issue is whether putting it on the cheek is 'worse' than on the rump/ribs/shoulder. I have been unable to find any objective data on this, but if anybody can provide me with information I'd be pleased to get it. I have a deadline of 11th February. I look forward to hearing from some of you and participating in this group - if I manage to remain on e-mail!!! Carol Petherick From: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol" 20-JAN-1998 19:41:36.48 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "ISAE" CC: Subj: My address Hi All, Ooops, looks like I did something wrong again! I've been told that my e-mail address did not appear on my introductory message. It is petherc@dpi.qld.gov.au, although on receipts of delivery I've had, it reads petherc@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au, but I guess the first one is OK. I'll soon find out! Carol From: IN%"friendz@friendly.net" 20-JAN-1998 19:42:01.22 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Certification "From: Steve Camfield, SME Board of Directors It is my privilege to formally invite you to become certified in sales or marketing management. Certification sends a clear message to your customers and colleagues that you are a true professional and have surpassed the highest standards of education, experience, and knowledge. For your convenience, I have placed full certification details and answers to questions you may have at www.selling.org (see Certification). ------------------------- SME is the non-profit worldwide association of sales and marketing management. Your address was provided to us by one of our chapters based on meeting attendance, inquiry, or suggestion by a local SME chapter board member but you may ensure removal by pressing the "Remove" option at the bottom of www.selling.org. From: IN%"spector@netcom.com" "DH" 20-JAN-1998 21:32:25.90 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Phobic behaviour in parrots I am looking for information regarding phobic behaviour in parrots, specifically in African Greys. Both scientific and anecdotal literature would be of interest. Thank you, DH \|/ O<....spector@netcom.com ^(_)^ spector had a little bird, a 'tiel hen named Merlot, _||__ and everywhere that spector went, the hen was sure to go! From: IN%"ilsmith@utkux.utcc.utk.edu" "Ione Smith" 20-JAN-1998 22:26:38.35 To: IN%"spector@netcom.com" "DH" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Phobic behaviour in parrots DH wrote: > > I am looking for information regarding phobic behaviour in parrots, > specifically in African Greys. Both scientific and anecdotal literature > would be of interest. You need to get some reprints from the _Pet Bird Report_. Contact Sally Blanchard for an order form, salypbr@ix.netcom.com . A quick glance through the reprint list shows me: "The African Grey Parrot" "Common Myths About African Greys" "Talking and Intelligence in African Greys" "Phobic Feather Plucking" "What's Wrong (What's Right) with African Greys" and many others. Sally has no scientific training that I know of, but she does know a lot about birds. You should also get a subscription to _The Grey Play Round Table_. Contact: The Grey Play Round Table FDR Station, P.O. Box 1744 New York, NY 10150-1744 (sorry, no email addy in evidence) Hope these help get you started. Unfortunately, there is very little "scientific" work available on psittacine behavior! I'll be really interested to see what other people come up with--PLEASE summarize to the list if folks send you info by private email. -- Ione -- Ione L. Smith, DVM -- Department of Comparative Medicine -- -- University of Tennessee, College of Veterinary Medicine -- -- phone (423) 974-5839 -- FAX (423) 974-5640 -- ================================================== http://funnelweb.utcc.utk.edu/~ilsmith/SVME.html The Society for Veterinary Medical Ethics http://funnelweb.utcc.utk.edu/~ilsmith/ethics.html for all sides of the AR/AW/anti-AR debate ================================================== Reality is whatever refuses to go away when I stop believing in it. -- Philip K. Dick From: IN%"FoodFarm@aol.com" "FoodFarm" 21-JAN-1998 02:33:44.95 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: US University address Can anyone out there help with a request from Germany? I am trying to contact the Principle's Office, Agricultural Department of the University of North Carolina, USA. Email, Fax or postal address please. Thanks for your help. From: IN%"spector@netcom.com" "DH" 21-JAN-1998 07:38:15.86 To: IN%"ilsmith@utkux.utcc.utk.edu" "Ione Smith" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Phobic behaviour in parrots Already have access to these, but thanks for the reply. I'm looking for something that probes a bit deeper. Good behavioural studies in passerine birds or even studies of phobias in humans would not be too far afield. I've got most of the "pet bird" textbooks (i.e, Athans, Doane, Gallerstein), and have several years' worth of Caged Bird Hobbyist, Bird Talk, and Bird Breeder. Thanks again. \|/ O<....spector@netcom.com ^(_)^ spector had a little bird, a 'tiel hen named Merlot, _||__ and everywhere that spector went, the hen was sure to go! On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Ione Smith wrote: > > A quick glance through the reprint list shows me: > > "The African Grey Parrot" > "Common Myths About African Greys" > "Talking and Intelligence in African Greys" > "Phobic Feather Plucking" > "What's Wrong (What's Right) with African Greys" > and many others. > From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 21-JAN-1998 09:12:44.41 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: Bumpsters Jim Brody here ... An acquaintance raised the following issue: "Moidering - or as the Oirish say, Moithering!! Jim, why do you think it= is that humans never seem to have developed what would have been a most useful habit of _looking_ around first _before_ turning, and crashing into other humans, beasts, trees, or falling off cliffs? Or am I thinking too much of our modern pavement (sidewalk to you!) conditions? It's probably another of my daft questions! But it does bother me. Perhaps there weren't so many people/animals around in the stone age to bump into??" Any data? Any speculations? Thanks ... From: IN%"ilsmith@utkux.utcc.utk.edu" "Ione Smith" 21-JAN-1998 09:50:35.23 To: IN%"spector@netcom.com" "DH" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Phobic behaviour in parrots DH wrote: > > Already have access to these, but thanks for the reply. I'm looking for > something that probes a bit deeper. Good luck! And PLEASE let us know if you come up with something. > Good behavioural studies in passerine > birds There are quite a few papers on "fear" in poultry species, but that's not really going to be the same as "phobias". > or even studies of phobias in humans would not be too far afield. Boy, you'll find zillions of things on human phobias (and some on dog phobias as well) if you look around a bit. -- Ione -- Ione L. Smith, DVM -- Department of Comparative Medicine -- -- University of Tennessee, College of Veterinary Medicine -- -- phone (423) 974-5839 -- FAX (423) 974-5640 -- ================================================== http://funnelweb.utcc.utk.edu/~ilsmith/SVME.html The Society for Veterinary Medical Ethics http://funnelweb.utcc.utk.edu/~ilsmith/ethics.html for all sides of the AR/AW/anti-AR debate ================================================== Reality is whatever refuses to go away when I stop believing in it. -- Philip K. Dick From: IN%"SBXNG@sbn3.phes.nottingham.ac.uk" "Nigel Goodwin" 21-JAN-1998 10:11:51.95 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Bumpsters > "Moidering - or as the Oirish say, Moithering!! Jim, why do you think it > is that humans never seem to have developed what would have been a most > useful habit of _looking_ around first _before_ turning, and crashing > into other humans, beasts, trees, or falling off cliffs? Human behaviour on the applied ethology network - always guaranteed to start a riot! I'll get my oar in early.... Humans _are_ inherently vigilant (whether by nature or nurture, but I'll leave that line of argument to someone else....). Observe any film footage of indiginous peoples moving about in their environment and you will see vigilance very much in evidence. But in modern western society, most environmental threats and hazards have disappeared, and we have become lazy. Combine this with the artificial overcrowding of the city and you get the everyday accidents and collisions that seem to cause Jim such distress. Try walking through a rough part of town late at night, and your own sense of vigilance will come flooding back. Nigel From: IN%"ws31@umail.umd.edu" 21-JAN-1998 10:42:31.99 To: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "ISAE" Subj: RE: Introduction Dear All, A question regarding face branding was recently posted as follows: "The issue is whether putting it(the brand)on the cheek is 'worse' than on the rump/ribs/shoulder. I have been unable to find any objective data on this, but if anybody can provide me with information I'd be pleased to get it." The US Department of Agriculture formerly reserved the face for all government related branding. This included cattle that had been identified as positively exposed to brucellosis and tuberculosis (and subject to eradication), etc. In the fall of 1995, the USDA changed its policy and no longer uses face branding. Public pressure was a major factor in bringing about this change. Was _objectivity_ the basis for the USDA change? Even without considering anatomical, physiological or behavioral data, I would argue that the change was in fact based on objective criteria. Is it not _objective_ to consider that a slap on the buttocks is less invasive to a person than is a slap on the face? Most tort cases would tend to indicate that an assault to the face is a greater offense. Child abuse laws would similarly hold that a slap to the face is more offensive. While today's courts (at least lawyers) are often the brunt of jokes, the early legal scholars were striving for objectivity before "science" had risen even to the level of alchemy. I do not believe that scientists have a unique claim to objectivity. For those persons who believe that only science can be used as the basis of an objective argument, the face is more highly vascularized and enervated, and the skin is closer to bone tissue - all of which make branding more invasive. Evolutionarily, the head/face portion of an animal contains the central processing unit for information (brain) and many of the critical information gathering units (eyes, ears, mouth and nose). Therefore, behaviorally the animal has become genetically programmed to consider (feel, interpret, etc.) invasion of this region to be highly threatening, and the fear and pain responses were developed accordingly through natural selection. Therefore, in an ethical review one should require that the justification (benefit to humans) for the use of face branding be considerably greater than the justificatoin for other methods of identification (including hip branding). Best regards to all, Ray Stricklin ---------------------- W. Ray Stricklin ws31@umail.umd.edu From: IN%"Kate.Littin.1@uni.massey.ac.nz" "Kate Littin" 21-JAN-1998 14:07:01.93 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: address Bill Muir Hi all, could anyone tell me William Muir's e-mail address at Purdue University? Thanks very much. Regards, Kate Littin. ================================== = Kate Littin = = Dept. Physiology & Anatomy = = Massey University = = Private Bag 11-222 = = Palmerston North = = New Zealand (Aotearoa) = = ph +64 06 3504251 = = Kate.Littin.1@uni.massey.ac.nz = ================================== From: IN%"robin@coape.win-uk.net" "Robin Walker" 21-JAN-1998 15:47:11.96 To: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "'James F. Brody'", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: Fall in you Bumpsters! No Jim this is not daft. The modern practice of milling about in unrelated self-serving crowds is wholly maladaptive! Humans belong in family groups, clans, hunting parties, teams, regiments and hierarchical task forces. Just as horses nip and bully each other into a disciplined groups of half ton gallopers that flee in formation and turn like minnows after their leaders so Man evolved in cultural groups with foraging and mutual defence controlling much of their lives. It is no surprise that schools, seminaries, clubs, ships' crews and infantry units rediscover the 'band' and its rules. We live isolated in ones and twos and congregate as strangers. It may be progress but it is not how we started! Hedony is very much part of the debate (wouldn't you know it? :-) The rites of passage (formalised and accepted bullying) offer exclusion from the group as a punishment and acceptance as a prize. The 'escape' into acceptance is rewarding. In some cases the relief is positively addictive and people suffer withdrawal when obliged to leave or retire. Pathological bullying is that which becomes an end in itself and is no longer adaptive as a discipline or offers escape into conformity as a relief. But more interesting is Nigel's observation! Robin -----Original Message----- From: James F. Brody [SMTP:JBrody@compuserve.com] Sent: 21 January 1998 14:51 To: Applied Ethology Subject: Bumpsters Jim Brody here ... An acquaintance raised the following issue: "Moidering - or as the Oirish say, Moithering!! Jim, why do you think it is that humans never seem to have developed what would have been a most useful habit of _looking_ around first _before_ turning, and crashing into other humans, beasts, trees, or falling off cliffs? Or am I thinking too much of our modern pavement (sidewalk to you!) conditions? It's probably another of my daft questions! But it does bother me. Perhaps there weren't so many people/animals around in the stone age to bump into??" Any data? Any speculations? Thanks ... From: IN%"robin@coape.win-uk.net" "Robin Walker" 21-JAN-1998 15:47:20.22 To: IN%"SBXNG@sbn3.phes.nottingham.ac.uk" "'Nigel Goodwin'", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: STOP! LOOK! LISTEN! Yes! Yes! Yes! Freeze Fight Flee Flirt, runs the list of tactical responses in defence' Before any choice is made, there is 'behavioural inhibition', or the process of stopping the motor program of the moment, orienting and observing, alerting and preparing a choice of 'F', The rewards of successful fighting, fleeing or flirting are rooted in the chemistry of hedony. The nature of reward in Behavioural Inhibition and Freezing is a little more difficult to divine. It seems to be of great importance to study of anxiolytics and serenics by those trying to marry ethology and psychopharmacology. I am intrigued by the anti-predator responses of mice to owls and other birds. There seems to be an initial response with analgesia which is not opioid based. This rapid response is clearly an automatic neural analgesia and must be adaptive in suspending proprioceptive discomforts. The threat of a serious predator (tawny owl) evokes opioid based longer term analgesia. The assumption seems to be that the endogenous opioid analgesia is required to maintain a longer period of behavioural inhibition, risk assessment, stretched attention, vigilance etc. I wonder if the analgesia is in fact the relevant manifestation. Useful yes to suppress fidgeting but otherwise a concomitant of actual reward for the behaviour in hand i.e. vigilance. An incentive to keep doing this for quite a long time. After all stimulation the female genital tract by various means is shown to evoke opioid analgesia but the question "why do you enjoy sex" is unlikely to induce the answer "because it is not particularly painful!" The reward component is much greater. Automatic motivations such as defaecation and urination may well evoke analgesic responses but the relief is not merely the cessation of discomfort but a feeling of positive pleasure. Counter intuitively anxiolytics such as Valium, Librium or Buspar do not reduce defensive burrow time in the callbox. This is not such a paradox if we accept that the issue is not anxiety but reward built in as motivation for a highly adaptive behaviour. What fogs these issues is the Great Electrician's parsimony with the circuitry. Whereas there maybe many happy instances where the responses are dual and useful it remains that the system is like a intruder alarm which is always accompanied by sprinklers because there is only one switch. Refs. C.A. Hendrie and S.M Weiss The Development of an Animal Model of Panic with Predictive and Face Validity. Ethology and Psychopharmacology Eds as cited. 1994 Wiley. -----Original Message----- From: Nigel Goodwin [SMTP:SBXNG@sbn3.phes.nottingham.ac.uk] Sent: 21 January 1998 16:11 To: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Subject: Re: Bumpsters > "Moidering - or as the Oirish say, Moithering!! Jim, why do you think it > is that humans never seem to have developed what would have been a most > useful habit of _looking_ around first _before_ turning, and crashing > into other humans, beasts, trees, or falling off cliffs? Human behaviour on the applied ethology network - always guaranteed to start a riot! I'll get my oar in early.... Humans _are_ inherently vigilant (whether by nature or nurture, but I'll leave that line of argument to someone else....). Observe any film footage of indiginous peoples moving about in their environment and you will see vigilance very much in evidence. But in modern western society, most environmental threats and hazards have disappeared, and we have become lazy. Combine this with the artificial overcrowding of the city and you get the everyday accidents and collisions that seem to cause Jim such distress. Try walking through a rough part of town late at night, and your own sense of vigilance will come flooding back. Nigel From: IN%"jswanson@oz.oznet.ksu.edu" "JANICE SWANSON" 21-JAN-1998 17:05:52.75 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Animal Machines Does anyone know if Ruth Harrison's Animal Machines has undergone a reprint? From the info I have gathered the book is considered out of print. But I thought a couple of years back someone did a reprint. Although I have our library staff on the question I thought someone on the net might provide a speedy reply. Does anyone know the current status of this book? Cheers, Janice Swanson jswanson@oz.oznet.ksu.edu From: IN%"BESTLEEK@livjm.ac.uk" "AWAY FROM MY HOUSE OR I SHALL SET THE DOGS ON YOU, YOU SCALAWAGS" 22-JAN-1998 06:39:18.52 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Traps, leghold or otherwise. I don't know if this is a bit after the fact, but I was wondering if any of these traps had been fitted with transmitters that would send when the trap was activated? This would reduce the time the animals spent in the traps (leghold or otherwise) and eould be relatively inexpensive. I know it could be abused by troublemakers, but so can traps now. Tiffany Leek (zoology student, England) From: IN%"J.Durrell@Queens-Belfast.ac.uk" 22-JAN-1998 10:52:55.38 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Dr. Mike Baxter's e-mail address I am looking to contact Dr. Mike Baxter in relation to research which he carried out in the past on bedding for farrowing sows. Would anyone have his current e-mail address? Julie Durrell School of Psychology, Queen's University Belfast From: IN%"pyburtt@CC.OWU.EDU" "P.Y.Burtt" 22-JAN-1998 16:48:57.18 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Introduction Greetings to network! I am a dog (cat,pig...) trainer and a veterinary technician and I teach an undergraduate-level course each spring at Ohio Wesleyan University in domestic animal behavior (what do others with similar classes use as a text?), usually concentrating on dogs, cats and cattle. I have a special interest in the dynamics of companion animal/human interactions...who am I kidding- I'm actually just totally fascinated by animals. Looking forward to the discussions. Pam Burtt pyburtt@cc.owu.edu From: IN%"ccmluisa@cen.buap.mx" 23-JAN-1998 11:18:34.68 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: interesting question!! Good day everybody: what do you know about phsicological pregnancy in dogs? Ada. From: IN%"ws31@umail.umd.edu" 23-JAN-1998 12:08:36.79 To: IN%"D.Goodwin@soton.ac.uk" "debbie goodwin" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Bergmann's rule Dear All, On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:03:52 +0000 (GMT) debbie goodwin wrote: > Does anyone have any references on Bergmann's rule in farm animals? (I've got > lots of nice examples of pumas, moose, rats etc). > > Has anyone compared body mass index of animals of the same breed raised in > cold/hot conditions? Can you get differences within the same generation (all > other things being equal)? > This question of Bergmann's rule (above) seems to have not generated much enthusiasm. However, I think this is a topic that has considerable relevance to Applied Ethology. I am going to prepare only a quick answer without checking sources and hope that others will help follow-up. First, artificial selection and modern animal housing tend to mask or diminish the influence of natural selection on body size(and themoregulatory physiological adaptations) in domestic animals relative to their wild counterparts. But this does not mean that Bergmann's Rule is not relevant to domestic animal production. The problem in answering the primary question being posed (temperature influence on body size) is that very few data exist from controlled studies. Earlier work (especially 1950-1960's) by animal scientists were somewhat focused on this question. One of Hafez's early editions (I think - but not sure) mentioned a study where Shorthorn were heavier when raised at cooler than hotter temperatures but Zebu cattle did not differ. The USDA-ARS had a large scale study of the environment-genetic interaction in which cattle (two genetic stains - I think) were raised at two locations, one subtropical and one temperate (Brookville, Florida and Miles City, Montana). I don't remember the results and I am not sure of the authors - except possibly W.T. Butts should be on one or more of the papers. I think a question that deserves consideration is, "Should Bergmann's Rule (and Allen's Rule) be a factor in the assessment of animal well-being?" In "climate controlled" buildings this is not really an issue but many animals still spend significant portions of their life outside - with varying amounts of shelter. For example, the modern Holstein cow tends to be of large body size regardless of whether she is lives in a tropical or temperate climate, when she is more suited to the temperate climate according to Bergmann's Rule. Another example could be the broiler chicken which has been selected for high body mass but also has a high death rate during the hotter summer months. Bergmann's Rule of course has direct relevance to swine in the farrowing barn. The sow (because of her larger body size) has a different ambient temperature requirement compared to her piglets (which have a higher surface area to body mass ratio and thus dissipate body heat more readily). I would like any references that other persons have on this topic. Best regards, Ray Stricklin ---------------------- W. Ray Stricklin ws31@umail.umd.edu From: IN%"robin@coape.win-uk.net" "Robin Walker" 23-JAN-1998 13:43:54.52 To: IN%"ws31@umail.umd.edu" "'ws31@umail.umd.edu'", IN%"D.Goodwin@soton.ac.uk" "debbie goodwin" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Bergmann's rule Dear All, Has there been a study of the feral horses in Namibia which are descended from German cavalry mounts abandoned in 1918? They might show adaptations. And what is the view on Gloger's Rule? It seems to me that if you take a short stocky plump Inuit and roll him out to around 7 feet you have a Masai. He has a much larger surface area for sweating and cooling. His insulating fat is spread much more thinly. Given the physics of heat emission black bodies emit heat more than white bodies so pigmentation must have been adaptive in the migratory evolution of man out of Africa. But this still leaves out the question of fat deposition; Arabian sheep tails, camel humps, cattle humps; coat length and thickness. If you left the farmed animals to evolve in their potentially hostile environments how might they adapt. Would it be just mass? Would they change colour? Would they limit their fat to convenient locations ? Robin -----Original Message----- From: W. Ray Stricklin [SMTP:ws31@umail.umd.edu] Sent: 23 January 1998 17:59 To: debbie goodwin Cc: Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Subject: Re: Bergmann's rule Dear All, On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:03:52 +0000 (GMT) debbie goodwin wrote: > Does anyone have any references on Bergmann's rule in farm animals? (I've got > lots of nice examples of pumas, moose, rats etc). > > Has anyone compared body mass index of animals of the same breed raised in > cold/hot conditions? Can you get differences within the same generation (all > other things being equal)? > This question of Bergmann's rule (above) seems to have not generated much enthusiasm. However, I think this is a topic that has considerable relevance to Applied Ethology. I am going to prepare only a quick answer without checking sources and hope that others will help follow-up. First, artificial selection and modern animal housing tend to mask or diminish the influence of natural selection on body size(and themoregulatory physiological adaptations) in domestic animals relative to their wild counterparts. But this does not mean that Bergmann's Rule is not relevant to domestic animal production. The problem in answering the primary question being posed (temperature influence on body size) is that very few data exist from controlled studies. Earlier work (especially 1950-1960's) by animal scientists were somewhat focused on this question. One of Hafez's early editions (I think - but not sure) mentioned a study where Shorthorn were heavier when raised at cooler than hotter temperatures but Zebu cattle did not differ. The USDA-ARS had a large scale study of the environment-genetic interaction in which cattle (two genetic stains - I think) were raised at two locations, one subtropical and one temperate (Brookville, Florida and Miles City, Montana). I don't remember the results and I am not sure of the authors - except possibly W.T. Butts should be on one or more of the papers. I think a question that deserves consideration is, "Should Bergmann's Rule (and Allen's Rule) be a factor in the assessment of animal well-being?" In "climate controlled" buildings this is not really an issue but many animals still spend significant portions of their life outside - with varying amounts of shelter. For example, the modern Holstein cow tends to be of large body size regardless of whether she is lives in a tropical or temperate climate, when she is more suited to the temperate climate according to Bergmann's Rule. Another example could be the broiler chicken which has been selected for high body mass but also has a high death rate during the hotter summer months. Bergmann's Rule of course has direct relevance to swine in the farrowing barn. The sow (because of her larger body size) has a different ambient temperature requirement compared to her piglets (which have a higher surface area to body mass ratio and thus dissipate body heat more readily). I would like any references that other persons have on this topic. Best regards, Ray Stricklin ---------------------- W. Ray Stricklin ws31@umail.umd.edu From: IN%"mshea@www.ansc.purdue.edu" "Margaret Shea-Moore" 23-JAN-1998 14:55:20.86 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'Applied Ethology Net'" CC: Subj: Job Announcement --Boundary_(ID_Mtjr5TB0gNMEEojGTVcylQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I am currently advertising for a lab technician to work with me in the = area of Animal Cognition (agricultural animals). The following is the = job announcement listed on the web. The Livestock Behavior Research = Unit is located on Purdue University campus, West Lafayette, IN. Please = make this available to anyone that might be interested. BIOLOGICAL SCIENCE LABORATORY TECHNICIAN, GS-6/7/8/9. U.S. Department of = Agriculture (USDA), Agriculture Research Service (ARS), Livestock = Behavior Research Unit, West Lafayette, Indiana. Serves as a = contributing member of a team assigned to conduct research on the = relationship between behavior and well-being of food-producing animals. = Primary responsibilities include conducting animal behavior experiments = working directly with livestock; establishing, validating and performing = biological assays to measure various hormones, neurotransmitters and = amino acids in livestock; maintaining, calibrating, and modifying a high = performance liquid chromatography system with electrochemical and = fluorometric detection. Applicants must possess specialized experience = and/or directly related education which provided knowledge of livestock = physiology, animal behavior, and neuroscience. Salary is commensurate = with experience ($23,464-$31,470). U.S. Citizenship required. For more = information, call (765) 494-9726; indicate announcement number = ARS-X8N-8063, or access REE employment Opportunities on = http://www.ars.usda.gov. INCOMPLETE APPLICATIONS WILL NOT RECEIVE = CONSIDERATION. Complete applications must be postmarked by February 24, = 1998. USDA/ARS is an equal opportunity employer. Margaret Shea-Moore. Ph.D. =09 Livestock Behavior Research Unit Fax: (765) 496-1993 USDA-ARS Purdue University e-mail: mshea@ansc.purdue.edu Poultry Bldg. 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released print journal with a full-text electronic edition published by Springer Verlag, Berlin/Heidelberg. About the Journal: Animal Cognition is an interdisciplinary journal publishing current research from various backgrounds and disciplines (ethology, behavioral ecology, animal behaviour and learning, cognitive sciences, comparative psychology and evolutionary psychology) on all aspects of animal (and human) cognition in an evolutionary framework. The aim of the journal is to establish the course of the evolution of "intelligence", of the mechanisms, functions and adaptive value of basic and complex cognitive abilities, the evolution of intelligent behaviour and intelligent systems from invertebrates to humans. Animal Cognition publishes original empirical and theoretical work, reviews, short communications and correspondence on the mechanisms and evolution of biologically rooted cognitive-intellectual structures. Papers should focus on the information processing and cognitive abilities that animals use when taking decisions in foraging, parental and mating behaviour, avoiding predators, communicating with conspecifics, and other domains. Papers on the following topics are particularly welcome: How do animals categorize and recognize individuals (potential mates, offspring), food, spatial and time patterns? How do animals form concepts? Which rules of logic and decision are used and how do these work? What satisficing heuristics do animals use? How do animals reason about their social world? How do animals learn by observation, imitation and instruction? Animal time perception and use; causality detection Innate reaction patterns and innate bases of learning Numerical competence and frequency expectancies Symbol use; communication Problem solving, animal thinking and use of tools Modularity of the mind How do these topics relate to the natural ecology of the species concerned? Experiments and field studies with animals and humans and the comparative method will be given preference, but simulation models and theoretical analyses will be also considered. Contact: access@link.springer.de -or- Chief Editor Tatiana Czeschlik E-mail bes@pk.she.de From: IN%"k9acad@iafrica.com" 24-JAN-1998 00:26:32.96 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Monty Roberts Does anyone have an e-mail address (or other cantact) for Monty Roberts - The Man Who Listens To Horses. Thank you in anticipation. Glynne k9acad@iafrica.com From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 24-JAN-1998 17:36:32.94 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: Fw: possible Internet per minute FFC charge -------------Forwarded Message----------------- From: INTERNET:hbe-l@a3.com, INTERNET:hbe-l@a3.com To: "Paul Abramson", INTERNET:abramson@silcom.com "Betsy Allgeier", INTERNET:elizara@bgnet.bgsu.edu "Susie Amato", INTERNET:amato@truth.idbsu.edu "Robin Brown", INTERNET:R.G.Brown@bristol.ac.uk "Judith Glushanok", jglush "HBE-l", INTERNET:hbe-l@a3.com "HBES List", INTERNET:hbes-l@listserv.arizona.edu "Marty Klein", [75254,3214] "Linda Mealey", INTERNET:lmealey@psy.uq.edu.au "Chris Moran", INTERNET:xrismoran@hotmail.com "Debbie Nathan", INTERNET:epdn%utep.BITNET@pucc.princeton.edu "Richard Olmstead", INTERNET:olmstead@niccom.sscnet.ucla.edu "Lola Annika Pendleton", INTERNET:lpendleton@juno.com "Steve Pinkerton", INTERNET:pinkrton@mcw.edu "Bruce Rind", INTERNET:Rind@vm.temple.edu "sexnet", INTERNET:sexnet@listserv.acns.nwu.edu "Richard Sindric", INTERNET:sindric@hotmail.com "Lawrence Stanley", INTERNET:aristof@ix.netcom.com "Don Symons", INTERNET:symons@alishaw.ucsb.edu "Laura Tesch", INTERNET:jsexrsch@ssc.wisc.edu = Date: 1/24/98 10:49 AM RE: Fw: possible Internet per minute FFC charge Sender: hbe-l-request@a3.com Received: from theta.pair.com (theta.pair.com [209.68.1.17]) by hil-img-2.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.10) with ESMTP id KAA11794; Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:48:39 -0500 (EST) Received: (from slist@localhost) by theta.pair.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id KAA0= 3165; Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:34:37 -0500 (EST) Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:34:37 -0500 (EST) Old-X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: <199801241531.HAA00503@netcomsv.netcom.com> From: "Paul Okami" To: "Laura Tesch" , "Don Symons" , "Lawrence Stanley" , "Richard Sindric" , "sexnet" , "Bruce Rind" , "Steve Pinkerton" , "Lola Annika Pendleton" , "Richard Olmstead" , "Debbie Nathan" , "Chris Moran" , "Linda Mealey" , "Marty Klein" <75254.3214@compuserve.com>, "HBES List" , "HBE-l" = , "Judith Glushanok" , "Robin Brown" , "Susie Amato" , "Betsy Allgeier" , "Paul Abramson" Subject: Fw: possible Internet per minute FFC charge Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 07:32:57 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Nhh5O.A.1l.smgy0"@theta.pair.com> Resent-From: hbe-l@a3.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3526 X-Loop: hbe-l@a3.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: hbe-l-request@a3.com ---------- > From: Bob Morris > To: YMVLopez ; Clive Watson ; Melanie Votaw ; Tamar Toister ; Allen Smith ; Barry Sloane ; John Sires ; Michael Shiffman ; Paul Okami ; Bernardine Morris-Thielert ; Daniel Morris ; Ron Mintle ; Daniel Liu ; Jim Lee ; David Kelting ; Ed Kasky ; Jeff and Linny Jobson ; Ken Hollinger ; Lance Hegamin ; Richard Grossman ; Ed Dorobek ; Brad Cleaver ; Ken Buckner ; Ben Brown > Subject: possible Internet per minute FFC charge > Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 10:35 PM > = > The following is NOT a hoax. Newsweek (1/26/98 now on sale, p. 12) > reports that the FCC wants to reclassify Internet Service Providers > (ISPs) as "'telecommunications services'" instead of "'end users'"-- > ostensibly > because people can now use the Net for "phone calls." This means the > ISP > will be charged a by-the-minute fee for your connection, which you can > be > sure they will pass on to you. > = > This is to inform you of a very important matter currently under review= > by the > Federal Communication Commission (FCC). Your local telephone company > has filed a proposal with the FCC to impose per minute charges for your= > internet service. They contend that your usage has or will hinder the= > operation of the telephone network. It is our belief that internet > usage will diminish if > users were required to pay additional per minute charges. The FCC has > created an e-mail box for your comments. Responses must be received by= > February 13, 1998. > = > Send your comments to: isp@fcc.gov. Tell them what you think. EVERY > phone company is in on this and they are trying to sneak it in just > under the > wire for litigation. Let everyone you know hear this one. Get the > e-mail > address to everyone you can think of. isp@fcc.gov > = > Following the notice is the response I sent to the FCC. I hope it > inspires > you to do the same. Please feel free to adapt and incorporate my > message > if you see fit, and to pass it on. > = > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Dear FCC > = > Newsweek confirms the rumor that the FCC is considering reclassifying > ISPs as telecommunications providers instead of end users, which would > necessitate the ISPs to pay access fees to the telephone companies. > This > is very disturbing news, and I write to urge against it. > = > The Internet is primarily *not* a telecommunications service. It is > primarily a tool for exchanging information, providing public access to= > a > huge network of computers and data storage devices. The World Wide Web= > is its most popular feature, which allows vast quantities of informatio= n > to be available to anyone, free of charge. All one needs is an > inexpensive > computer (state of the art is not necessary), a modem, and an ISP, for > which one pays a nominal monthly fee, usually $20. The Internet, then,= > is > (or will soon be) available to the vast majority of families in the > U.S.-- > rich and poor. > = > Many now can affordably access the web to perform research and to keep > themselves current on news. A more expensive Internet would prohibit > many from accessing this essential research tool, Email, too, is also = a > vital Internet function-- but, being text and not graphics, this takes = a > negligible amount of transfer time for the user. > = > Rumor has it that the change in ISP clasifications are being considered= > because it is possible to make a long distance "telephone" connection > through the net. While this may be true, the necessary equipment is a > luxury most people do not bother with. I know dozens of computer users= =2E > I > know no one who has ever made a "call" through the 'Net. As far as I > can > see, there is no competition here for the local phone companies (except= > those who are also ISPs themselves). > = > The Internet is a miracle of technology. It allows information to be > shared in a way that was never possible before, and it allows *all* > Americans to share in that information. To classify ISPs as > telecommunications services would raise the costs of accessing this > information, making it prohibitive to the lower- and lower-middle > classes > (i.e. most American families). > = > The Internet is not a telecommunications service. It is computer > access. > It is access to information. Please don't take this vital link away > from > us by raising the fees. > = > = From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 24-JAN-1998 22:23:58.15 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology", IN%"hbe-request@a3.com" "HBES List Serve" CC: IN%"jat4m@avery.med.virginia.edu" "J. Anderson Thomson, MD", IN%"david.brudnoy@wbz.com" "David Brudnoy", IN%"aswann@msi66.msi.uth.tmc.edu" "Alan Swann, MD", IN%"beverly.sutton@mhmr.state.tx.us" "Beverly Sutton, MD", IN%"b-mckinneuy@nwo.edu" "Bill Subj: Course Announcement: Healing the Moral Animal Dear Colleagues: Please share this announcement with your peers and students. Also, plea= se forward it to the secretary or office in your institution that has the ma= ss list for residents, grad students, faculty and clinical faculty. Many, many thanks ... Jim Brody, Ph.D. jbrody@compuserve.com ******************** "Healing the Moral Animal: Lessons from Evolution" Part of the 19th Cape Cod Institute = Speakers: Robert Wright John Pearce, M.D. Russ Gardner, Jr., M.D. James Brody, Ph. D. Readings/more course inf./flyers available from jbrody@compuserve.com. When: July 20-24, 1998 (M-F), = Where: Eastham, MA, USA (at the "elbow" on Cape Cod) Cost: $435 ($285 for medical residents and graduate students) CE Hours: 15 hours Time: 9 AM-12:15 PM with extended sessions until 1:30 PM on M & T. (Pearc= e & Wright) Sponsor: Albert Einstein Medical College, Bronx, NY, USA CE credentials: Einstein Medical College (EMC) is accredited by the Accreditation Council for Continuing Medical Education to sponsor continuing medical education for physicians. A maximum of 15 hrs of Category 1 credit for the AMA Physician's Recognition Award. EMC is authorized to offer CE credit to nurses. This program offers 18 contact hrs. Einstein Medical College is approved by Amer. Psychological. Assn. to off= er CE to psychologists. Application has been made to Calif. Psych. Assn. to offer 15 hrs credit in accordance with mandatory (MCEP) requirements. The APA sponsor maintains program responsibility. Application has been made for 15 Category I NASW CEUs EMC is recognized by the Nat'l Board for Certified Counselors to offer CE= credit for National Certified Counselors. We adhere to NBCC Guidelines Application has been made to the Massachusetts Assn. for Marriage & Famil= y Therapy, Inc. Continuing Education Program to offer 15 contact hrs. To register, please call, mail or fax! Fax # (718) 430-8782 Phone registration: (718) 430-2307. Or print and complete the form below. --------------------------------- Registration for: HEALING THE MORAL ANIMAL: Lessons from Evolution Name:___________________________Degree_________ Address:_________________________________ City:_____________State & Zip:______________ Fax:_____________Email:___________________ Home phone ( )__________________________ Bus. Phone:( )___________________________ Discipline: ______________________________ Previously Attended Cape Cod Seminar? _______ Special Instructional Needs?_________________ Visa/MC#:________________________________ Signature:________________________________ Exp. date:________________________________ Fax # (718) 430-8782 Check attached: _____________ Please make check payable to Montefiore-Cape Cod . = Mail to Cape Cod Institute * Albert Einstein College of Medicine 1308 Belfer Bldg. * Bronx * NY 10461 Web Page: http://www.cape.org/1998/ We can mail you a complete brochure and more information about our progra= ms at your request. ------------ Premises of "Healing the Moral Animal: Lessons from Evolution": Of interest to managed care administrators as well as to counselors, general practitioners, psychiatrists, holistic practitioners, psychologists, social workers, and teachers whether in private or institutional niches. Anthropologists and bioengineers welcome! This interdisciplinary course moves from evolutionary principles to the innovative treatment of emotional distress. Strong emphasis on alliance= s, values and our evolved minds. There is an extended session until 2:30 P.= M. on Mon. with John Pearce & until 1:15 PM on Tues. with Robert Wright. A course handbook of about 150 pp. is planned. The course assumptions are that: 1) Alliance formation, the ability to work in small groups, is a gift of evolutionary time and selective pressures. This trait allows eac= h of us to compensate for whatever failings we otherwise have as individual= s. 2) Morality is likely an evolved trait just like physical ones bu= t operates best in small groups. There is often lessened continuity in personal relationships as group size increases. Thus, larger groups can= be associated with increased cheating, more competitive self interest, an= d lessened voluntary altruism. 3) "Deception" appears to be one of our evolved tools 4) The notion of "Psychological Adaptations" implies adjustments = in our models for assessing adults and children. There is reason to suspec= t considerable interaction between psychiatric syndromes and various psychological adaptations. 5) There is sufficient information from sociobiology and evolutionary psychology to consider clinical applications, particularly f= or treatment of mania, depression, the anxiety disorders, and marital/childrearing issues. Comment: Sociobiology and Evolutionary models offer fertile applications for clinical work, including interview content, diagnosis, treatment formulation, and the information and assistance given to the client. = There are also significant considerations for referral practices, the introduction and management of medication, the treatment of physical illness, the practitioner's presentation of themself to clients, and even= office design. There are hints about our dilemmas concerning managed ca= re practices, daycare, male-female roles, and the likely social adjustments that may occur with shifts in population and tighter resource allocation.= ------------- Robert Wright is the author of "The Moral Animal: Evolutionary Psycholog= y and Everyday Life," named by the "New York Times Book Review" as one of the best 12 books of the year in 1994. His other publications include articles for "The Atlantic Monthly," "The New Yorker," "Time," "The New Republic," and "Slate." His writings on science, technology, and philosophy for "The Sciences" magazine won the National Magazine Award fo= r Essay and Criticism. His first book, "Three Scientists and Their Gods,"= was a finalist for a National Book Critics Circle Award. He is a contributing editor of "The New Republic." John K. Pearce, M.D., practices psychiatry in Cambridge, MA, and several clinics on Cape Cod and is medical director of the Island Counseling Cent= er on Martha's Vineyard. He is past secretary of the American Family Thera= py Association, a charter member of the Human Behavior and Evolution Society= , and a past president of the International Association for the Study of Comparative Psychopathology. He is coeditor of "Family Therapy: Combining Psychodynamics and Family Systems Approaches," and "Ethnicity a= nd Family Therapy" and is co-author of "Exiles in Eden: Psychotherapy from a= n Evolutionary Perspective." Russell M. Gardner, M.D., is the Harry Davis Endowed Professor of = Psychiatry at the University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston. He belongs to a dozen professional societies, has more than 30 papers 50 presentations, 12 invited book chapters, and 90 essays on evolutionary = psychiatry and sociophysiology. He is working on a book manuscript, = "Sociophysiology: Evolution, Behavior, and Psychiatry." He views "sociophysiology" as the foundation science for psychiatry and has been active in the Human Behavior and Evolution Society as well as the ASCAP Society (Across Species Comparisons and Psychopathology), stemmed from Th= e ASCAP Newsletter (a monthly publication in 10 volumes). He has written o= n mania, depression, paranoia, and evolution among other topics. James Brody, Ph. D., is in private practice and has two dozen papers and presentations. He developed "Clinical Sociobiology: Taking Charge of Ou= r Genes" this past summer. He has posted 200+ essays on Evolutionary Psychology, part of Behavior OnLine, at www.behavior.net/mhn/bolforum/message/27 and is developing his 1st book. James Brody, Ph.D. www.cape.org/1998/ or www.behavior.net/ 610-948-5344 From: IN%"KEVNTERRY@aol.com" "KEVNTERRY" 25-JAN-1998 14:00:32.37 To: IN%"k9acad@iafrica.com" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Monty Roberts Glynne, You can e-mail Monty at admin@MontyRoberts.com on-line at www.MontyRoberts.com or toll free at 1-888-826-6689 signed : another MontyRoberts fan ~Terry~ From: IN%"marie.haskell@bbsrc.ac.uk" "marie.haskell" 26-JAN-1998 08:07:12.80 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Research assistant position available Research Assistant Position A two year position is vacant in the Environment and Welfare Division of the Roslin Institute, Edinburgh, United Kingdom, to work within a project entitled Cognition, frustration and aggression in domestic poultry'. Broadly, the project has two major aims. The first is to expand current knowledge of the cognitive abilities of the domestic hen. This will involve adapting ethological and psychological experimental techniques used in other species to study cognition in the domestic hen, and expanding this research into understanding the interaction between cognition and welfare. The second aim of the project is to examine the phenomenon of frustration-induced aggression and its impact on animal welfare. This will involve investigations into the conditions under which frustration-induced aggression occurs and its affect on the well-being of the animals concerned. The research will involve making behavioural observations, as well as using operant conditioning techniques. Candidates should have a BSc or equivalent degree with a major in Animal Behaviour, Ethology or Psychology. Preference will be given to candidates having previous experience with setting up and running behaviour or conditioning experiments. The salary will be dependent on experience: up to 15 100 SLG per annum. Application forms can be obtained from the Personnel Office, Roslin Institute, Roslin, Midlothian, EH25 9PS. Telephone no.: + 44 131 5274481, Fax: + 44 131 4400434. Please quote reference no. RI 1/98. Closing dates for applications is 13 February 1998. Marie Haskell Roslin Institute (Edinburgh) Roslin, Midlothian EH25 9PS marie.haskell@bbsrc.ac.uk (e-mail for enquiries) From: IN%"louiser@clara.net" "Louise Rogers" 26-JAN-1998 08:48:27.42 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: New member This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_eNrDuFU1Phv/9WSOoUeMyQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi!! Just a quick introduction!! I am a vet nurse, based in Kent, England who = is the 3rd year of her Open University studies, studying Brain and = Behaviour this year. So I am hoping to get some good info, and maybe be = able to pick your brains, cos studying alone can be hard work!!=20 That'll do!!=20 Loopy Lou! --Boundary_(ID_eNrDuFU1Phv/9WSOoUeMyQ) Content-type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Hi!!
Just a quick introduction!! I am a = vet nurse,=20 based in Kent, England who is the 3rd year of her Open University = studies,=20 studying Brain and Behaviour this year. So I am hoping to get some good = info,=20 and maybe be able to pick your brains, cos studying alone can be hard = work!!=20
That'll do!!
Loopy = Lou!
--Boundary_(ID_eNrDuFU1Phv/9WSOoUeMyQ)-- From: IN%"bsimpson@pinehurst.net" 26-JAN-1998 22:01:37.51 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Fwd: Bats & horses]]] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_vqCH1BfYhKEKFKEWU+YxXw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This came from the Equine Clinician's Network. Anyone have any thoughts? Barbara Simpson --Boundary_(ID_vqCH1BfYhKEKFKEWU+YxXw) Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:10:23 -0500 From: RICARDO BENINCORE ALVAREZ Subject: [Fwd: Bats & horses] To: ecn@vetmed.wsu.edu Message-id: <34CCC37F.6473@atenea.lasalle.edu.co> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:21:22 -0500 From: RICARDO BENINCORE ALVAREZ Subject: Bats & horses To: ecn@vetmed.wsu.edu Message-id: <34C7D471.674F@atenea.lasalle.edu.co> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I have a client trying to fright bats out of the horses food. They hang just above them contaminating the food with manure. All I know is they are "fruit bats". Does any one out there know how to send them away? He has try lights and ultrasound devices with no success, and he doesn't want to kill them. Thanks for any reference or help. Ricardo Benincore, M.V. Bogota, Colombia rbeninca@atenea.lasalle.edu.co --Boundary_(ID_vqCH1BfYhKEKFKEWU+YxXw)-- From: IN%"kscong@netsense.net" 27-JAN-1998 00:26:43.75 To: IN%"UC2Pyrs@aol.com" "UC2Pyrs" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: A tragic Story I grieve with thee. My cat lost 3 of his toes in a leg-hold trap while he was hunting - he was a barn cat & it took me over 24 hr to get him to come back to me. I took him to the vet & we stared what amounted to more than 2 months of 2/d soaks & bandaging & debridement - I had no choice but to bring him into the house to my room. His paw was so necrotic He lay on a pillow in front of the window & stuffed his face in some sweet fern I kept cutting for him. Since then, he cannot extend his claws as all the tendons were severed. He ended up checking out our house, seeing a good thing, & becoming its King. This was many years ago, but I cannot but think he has his advanced arthritis - & is no longer able to climb trees or jump even onto my bed, let alone off it- without pain - has probably come from this trauma. There are 2 very heavy hitter agnecies that come to mind - The SPCA & Sierra. You might also try the National Wildlife Federation, World Wildlife & even Green Peace. Good Luck! Having trained to be in the Forest Service once, long ago, I can tell you that they labor under tremendous beaurocratic garbage. Do not, by any means for get your 2 Senators & your House Rep - who can also be reached by the Web. Karen C. UC2Pyrs wrote: > 12/28/97 > Hello, > The following is a letter that I posted yesterday on the Labrador Retriever > list. In hopes that this tragic story reaches more people, I am also posting > it here. Feel > free to distribute it anyway that you feel might help. > There have been many new developments in the last 24 hours, and I will keep > you updated. > Thanks, > Bob, Laurie & Nahanni > Kalispell, MT > canyon@digisys.net (Bob Muth) > > >Hello lab people, > >I am not sure if I'll be able to finish this letter, but I need to try. I > >have lost a lot of faith in human nature tonight. > >My wife, Laurie, Nahanni my dog, and I just got home from skiing on an old > logging road in > >the mountains behind our farm. About 3:00 p.m. we were approaching Trail > >Creek, about five miles up the mountain. Nahanni was alerting, and I > >remarked to Laurie that there must be someone or an animal near. > >We had seen a lot of lion tracks in the area, so I told Nahanni to stay > >close. About two minutes later a black lab came running around the corner > >of the trail barking frantically. We recognized her as one of the dogs > >belonging to a neighbor who lived in a cabin about a half mile from our > >farm. As we skied up to the dog, we heard Liz, our neighbor calling for help. > Laurie, skied quickly to Liz while I got Nahanni on the leash. Liz was sobbing > and cradling her other dog, Buddy, in her arms. His head was in the jaws of a > lion trap. I felt sure he was dead, but Liz sobbed that his heart was still > beating. I was able to compress the trap and get it off Buddy. Laurie stayed > with Liz while I > >raced back with Nahanni and got the four wheel drive. It took a long time, > >and I was worried about Laurie and Liz out in the cold with the night > >rapidly falling on the mountain, but they didn't want to leave Buddy. When > >I finally got back to them, Liz was accepting that Buddy was dead. We > >loaded Buddy, skis, packs, and that damn trap into the rig and headed down > >the mountain. > > > >Laurie said they passed the time waiting for me with Liz retelling the > >story of Buddy's life and all his antics. Liz didn't know how long she had > >been with Buddy until we happened on them. She was blaming herself for > >being too weak to open the jaws of the trap, but I think Buddy's neck must > >have been broken from the initial springing of the trap. > > > >Liz is young, probably in her mid twenties, and her two dogs were her life. > >She spent countless hours with them mountain biking, running, and skiing. > >No dogs could have asked for a more loving and caring master. I can not > >begin to explain in words how Laurie and I ache for her. We called a few > >minutes ago, and her voice was a faint and distant whisper. > > > >I have been in contact with the Montana Fish and Game and they tell me that > >the man (I use that term with severe reservations) had a legal right to > >trap in the area. The Fish and Game seemed to be more worried about the > >image the trapping fraternity would get from this, and asked me to let them > >"handle the investigation and get back to me." Tomorrow I am going to the > >newspapers. > > > >I have never been politically active in an issue because I thought I didn't > >have the time. This incident and Liz's pain has galvanized my feelings > >against the inhumanity of trapping. I would like to become involved in an > >organized effort to stop this senseless practice. Does anyone know of such > >an organization ? Could you e-mail me how to contact them? > > Terra is her black lab that met us on the trail. Buddy was part lab and ?? He > was very sweet and loving. > > >Thanks, > >Bob, Laurie & Nahanni > canyon@digisys.net(Bob Muth) From: IN%"v8350@bealenet.com" 27-JAN-1998 06:59:03.55 To: IN%"bsimpson@pinehurst.net" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: Bat-Scaring Some possible sources of expertise on bats: http://home.earthlink.net/~jdwiggins/batlinks.html - A page with lots of links. Sue Barnard Zoo Atlanta E-mail: pszoode@prism.gatech.edu Web site: http://www.lads.com/basicallybats/index.html 43 years exp. Two nationally, (U.S.), recognized experts on bats are Rob Mies and Kim Williams, of Organization for Bat Conservation. Their email address is obcbats@aol.com Bat Conservation International, 512-327-9721 Cyndi Marks at The Florida Bat Center, email at FlaBats@aol.com Laura Finn at Fly By Night, email at lsfinn@aol.com Mary From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 27-JAN-1998 07:53:39.67 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology", IN%"hbe-request@a3.com" "HBES List Serve" CC: Subj: AAAS Dear all, AAAS is meeting in Philadelphia soon. I'd appreciate meeting any of you= personally and trading stories if you will be in town. Jim jbrody@compuserve.com From: IN%"Anna.Olsson@hmh.slu.se" "Anna Olsson" 27-JAN-1998 09:48:27.88 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: post-graduate course Dear all, I am a PhD student at the Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences, and I am looking for courses intended for students at PhD-level. The fields I am interested in is neuroethology , learning and motivation. Searching for this on Internet gives me lots of information about American universities but hardly anything European. I can't believe that there is nothing going on here in Europe! If any of you know of courses planned at your or other universities, or know of good sites for searching, I would be happy to get to know. Yours sincerely Anna Olsson ----------------------------------------------------- Anna Olsson Inst f=F6r husdjurens milj=F6 och h=E4lsa Sveriges Lantbruksuniversitet Box 234 532 23 Skara Dept of Animal Environment and Health Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences P O Box 234 S-532 23 Skara Sweden tel 46 (0)511 - 67245 (direct), 67218 (secretary) fax 46 (0)511 - 67204 e-mail anna.olsson@hmh.slu.se From: IN%"robin@coape.win-uk.net" "Robin Walker" 27-JAN-1998 10:02:46.38 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology Network (E-mail)" CC: Subj: Heat , Horses and History. Dear Horsy All!, After my inquiry in respect of Namibian horse, Dr. Houpt kindly drew my attention to the work of Jennifer Sneddon. From here I have discovered quite a few papers on the topic of acclimatisation. I am encouraged to ask for assistance with a small historical effort which I have never completed. It concerns the history and reputation of Marcus Crassus the Roman Consul and general who came to a nasty end along with several thousand Roman citizens in a earlier "Gulf War" against the Parthian rulers of what is now Iraq. In short Crassus lead seven legions (28,000 Roman infantry), 4,000 cavalry and about 4,000 light infantry into Mesopotamia in summer. He had waited until the hot weather because Iraq is a clay quagmire in the rainy season and he needed his son Publius Crassus, one of Julius Caesar's most able generals to arrive from Gaul with 1,000 crack Gallic horsemen. The enemy was the Parthian governor of Mesopotamia (the Surena), his 1,000 armoured and mounted Parthian nobility and about 10,000 Saka (Scythian) mounted bowmen. This force had been fairly helpless against 7,000 Roman legionaries and 1,000 cavalry which had garrisoned the area through the winter. They were in flight down the Euphrates and inland along the Belissus having to keep near water as much as the Romans. They had a camel train and innumerable wagons (the Surena had 200 for his household and concubines) The maths is simple. Cavalry can march at 5 to 6 mph, infantry at 4 mph with rest breaks. The Parthians were constrained by the best speed of their oxen which is 2 to 2.5 mph for a maximum of 8 hours a day. They could not escape and were obliged to fight. The Romans formed a great square of cohorts 12 to a side. Against this the Parthians were helpless other than to rain arrows on it. This tactic had seen the defeat of a much more formidable force of 15,000 Gallic cavalry only the previous year and Publius Crassus had been present. Impatience drove Crassus to send his son with 1,300 cavalry (including the 1,000 Gauls) , 8 cohorts (3,000) and 500 Syrian archers to close with the 1000 Parthian nobility. This handy force, well balanced force of horse, foot and firepower should have routed the enemy. Alexander the Great had dealt with Scythian mounted archers by attacking them in just such a fashion. The result was a disaster. The Gauls failed completely. It is recorded that the men themselves were much afflicted by the heat and thirst. They crowed their remaining horses onto a hillock and made a dismounted stand which was fatal. Crassus' was killed and his head thrown into the Roman ranks. The rest is a familiar tale of utter confusion and deep disintegration of morale. The highly detailed account by Plutarch draws heavily on the testimony of survivors who had a lot to explain to the Senate. Blame and excuses lie thickly in the text, not the least being that of Crassus' second in command Cassius who made off with the last formed regiment of cavalry whilst the going was good To my mind two things were overlooked by the Romans. Horses brought in a hurry from France in winter may not perform under extreme duress in summer temperatures of 128 degrees F in the shade whilst short of water and green fodder. Arrian (writing up Alexander's campaigns) in the 2nd century AD mentions that by the time he had reached out into Scythia all the original European horses of the Macedonian cavalry had died and the army was mounted on local horses. I believe that a great deal of careful preparation attended the welfare of horses during the Olympic events in Atlanta in '96 and I wonder if anyone on this list would care to comment on my thesis above. Fulsome thanks in arrears and of course acknowledgement on the page.! Robin Walker From: IN%"rhb11@hermes.cam.ac.uk" 27-JAN-1998 12:03:04.17 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: ISAE 98 - abstracts Dear All, I wish to invite comment on the policy which appears to have been adopted by the ISAE committee regarding the submission of abstracts (and which I have just become aware of) for ISAE 98. I have been told that I can not submit more than ONE first author abstract to this conference. I have been told that to submit two abstracts I must reverse author order. I do not agree with this policy for the following reasons: 1. I (and others) work in a number of fields which are unrelated (e.g. pig transport, pig farrowing, bioethics) and find that I can not contribute work in these fields unless I reverse author order on the abstracts. 2. Reversing author order in order to submit undervalues the concept of authorship. 2. I am, like alot of people, 'majority' funded for one particular project and therefore in choosing to submit only one abstract I am (rightly) duty bound to submit in this particular field. This does not allow any of my other work to be aired. I do understand that the organisers do not wish to swamped by nine (!) abstracts all in the same field with the same authors, but believe that the selection procedures should occur after submission (keeping in mind the points that I make above). I am particularly surprised by this ruling because last year I submitted two abstracts which, as it turned out, happened to be in the same field and they were both accepted. I invite comment as I believe any such policy should debated by the membership; Many thanks for listening; Yours as ever, Harry Bradshaw Dr R. H. Bradshaw, Department of Clinical Veterinary Medicine, University of Cambridge, Madingley Road, Cambridge CB3 OES, UK. From: IN%"mb0u5038@liverpool.ac.uk" 27-JAN-1998 20:33:48.42 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: KISS I am just a little pissed off, I'm extremely sorry if this mail seems rude and to the point. I thought this list server was to exchange ideas and pass on short essays etc, I can deal with the odd unsubscribe mistake. About 20 mins ago, I recieved an email from the system that has just lost me my honours project (for my final year at uni), all my contact email addies from my email launcher and numerous other bits and pieces of software. Do you have any idea how pissed of I am... Ok I have a copy of my honours project on backup, the rest of the files, I dont even know what I lost to backup. How the hell do I start to recover nearly 100 email addies. This all down to a mail I recieved from Robin Walker . His mail was so large that my email launcher (Eudora) had to break it down into 30 parts just to deal with it, and then went over my 10 meg university hard drive space allocation. Thus causing all sorts of problems. Mistake me if I am wrong, but I dont seem to FRIGGIN recall asking for this information and I am in the right mind of sending it back to him (20 times over), but I shant. Please everybody, get it sorted, use the K.I.S.S. principle. KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID. Thanks a *uck** lot ROB!!! Geoffrey Lester Gibbs. The University of Liverpool, Port Erin Marine Biological Laboratories, Port Erin, Isle of Man, GB. ~Hottriangle@hotmail.com ~mb0u5038@liv.ac.uk ~http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/2962 From: IN%"rushenj@EM.AGR.CA" "Jeff Rushen" 28-JAN-1998 08:05:38.19 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: poste -- recrutement >>Proposition de profil de recrutement scientifique CR2 INRA pour 1998. >>Les dossiers sont =E0 retirer =E0 l=27INRA DRH, service de recrutement , = 147 rue=20 >de l=27Universit=E9 Paris 75007 >> >>REFERENCES >>SECTEUR Productions animales >>D=E9partement Physiologie animale >> >>Corps/grade: CR2 >> >>INTITULE SOMMAIRE >>Etude des interactions entre la r=E9activit=E9 =E9motionnelle et la = relation=20 >m=E8re-jeune chez les Mammif=E8res domestiques. >> >>Intitul=E9 de l=27Unit=E9: Laboratoire de comportement animal, INRA/CNRS = URA=20 >1291, 37380, Nouzilly. >>Directeur: F. L=E9vy >>T=E9l: 02 47 42 76 15 , Fax: 02 47 42 77 43; e-mail: levy=40tours.inra.fr= >> >>Concours discipline: Production animale/ Comportement >> >>Programme de recherche >> Chez les Mammif=E8res, le d=E9veloppement d=27une relation s=E9lective = entre la=20 >m=E8re et son jeune met en jeu des processus d=27apprentissage qui = vont=20 >permettre la reconnaissance des deux partenaires. L=27=E9mergence de = ces=20 >processus d=27acquisition r=E9pond =E0 un d=E9terminisme multiple, en = particulier=20 >physiologique et sensoriel, dont certains m=E9canismes ont =E9t=E9 = caract=E9ris=E9s=20 >tant sur le versant maternel que filial. Outre ces facteurs sp=E9cifiques,= la=20 >mise en place de la relation m=E8re-jeune est influenc=E9e par des = param=E8tres=20 >plus g=E9n=E9raux tels que la r=E9activit=E9 =E9motionnelle (RE). = R=E9cemment, nous=20 >avons montr=E9 1) l=27existence d=27une corr=E9lation entre les = aptitudes=20 >maternelles des brebis et leur niveau de RE; 2) l=27ontogen=E8se de la RE = se=20 >construit =E0 partir des =E9changes m=E8re-jeune; 3) que les st=E9ro=EFdes= sexuels=20 >sont des facteurs de r=E9gulation communs =E0 la RE et =E0 la motivation= =20 >maternelle. Cette proposition de recrutement vise =E0 comprendre les=20 >interactions entre la RE et les aptitudes maternelles. Cette th=E9matique = est=20 >d=27importance dans la mesure o=F9 la RE intervient dans l=27adaptation = de=20 >l=27animal =E0 son milieu d=27=E9levage. Son =E9tude s=27inscrit donc = dans le cadre des=20 >recherches sur le bien-=EAtre animal. A plus long terme, le candidat = devra=20 >s=27int=E9resser aux d=E9terminismes physiologiques et neurobiologiques = communs=20 >entre la RE et la motivation maternelle. >> >>Environnement scientifique >> L=27activit=E9 de recherche de l=27unit=E9 s=27articule autour de deux = th=E8mes=20 >principaux: l=27=E9tude des processus physiologiques et sensoriels = impliqu=E9s=20 >dans le d=E9veloppement de la relation m=E8re-jeune (5 chercheurs) et = l=27=E9tude de=20 >la r=E9activit=E9 =E9motionnelle et de ses facteurs de variation (1 = chercheur). Le=20 >groupe poss=E8de une expertise reconnue et une compl=E9mentarit=E9 des = approches=20 >qui assurent au candidat un encadrement propice au bon d=E9veloppement de = la=20 >probl=E9matique propos=E9e. Les partenaires principaux sont l=27unit=E9 = de=20 >neuroendocrinologie sexuelle (d=E9partement de physiologie animale, = INRA,=20 >Nouzilly) et l=27unit=E9 d=27adaptation des herbivores au milieu = (d=E9partement=20 >d=27=E9levage, INRA, Theix). >> >>Profil du candidat >>Comp=E9tences >>Le profil fait appel =E0 de bonnes connaissances en =E9thologie et en=20 >physiologie animale, en particulier en neuroendocrinologie. Outre une=20 >comp=E9tence dans les m=E9thodes de mesure du comportement, le candidat = devra=20 >=EAtre familier avec les techniques classiques de neurobiologie (st=E9r=E9= otaxie,=20 >injection intrac=E9r=E9brale, microdialyse). >> >>Capacit=E9s personnelles=20 >>Le profil souhait=E9, =E9tant =E0 la fronti=E8re entre les deux = probl=E9matiques de=20 >l=27unit=E9, n=E9cessite de la part du candidat une ma=EEtrise de la = litt=E9rature=20 >concern=E9e, un bon esprit de synth=E8se ainsi que des capacit=E9s = relationnelles=20 >certaines. Par ailleurs, le candidat devra =EAtre aguerri aux exp=E9riment= ations=20 >de jour comme de nuit sur des mammif=E8res domestiques. La ma=EEtrise = de=20 >l=27anglais est absolument indispensable. >> >>Formation >>Une formation universitaire ou d=27une grande =E9cole sanctionn=E9e par = une th=E8se=20 >de doctorat en biologie du comportement ou en neurosciences est souhait=E9= e.=20 >> > > > F. L=E9vy > Laboratoire de Comportement Animal, INRA/URA CNRS 1291 > I.N.R.A. Centre de Recherches de Tours-Nouzilly > F-37380 NOUZILLY > Tel:02.47.42.76.15 Fax:02.47.42.77.43 > e-mail: levy=40tours.inra.fr=20 From: IN%"robin@coape.win-uk.net" "Robin Walker" 28-JAN-1998 08:31:50.60 To: IN%"mb0u5038@liverpool.ac.uk" "'mb0u5038@liverpool.ac.uk'", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: KISS Rude you are. To the point you are not! There is since Sunday but one mail logged out from this computer to Applied Ethology :- Tue 27/01/98 15:59 Heat Horses and History. Unless you add some explanation to your expletive excitement I am at a loss to respond with any sympathy. The thought of melting the Net down around the decent folk on it troubles me greatly. You could be included in my concern if I receive a reply to the two messages I have already sent to you. Until I know what it is that has been received (without being sent!) I can say no more. Robin -----Original Message----- From: mb0u5038@liverpool.ac.uk [SMTP:mb0u5038@liverpool.ac.uk] Sent: 28 January 1998 02:33 To: Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Subject: KISS I am just a little pissed off, I'm extremely sorry if this mail seems rude and to the point. I thought this list server was to exchange ideas and pass on short essays etc, I can deal with the odd unsubscribe mistake. About 20 mins ago, I recieved an email from the system that has just lost me my honours project (for my final year at uni), all my contact email addies from my email launcher and numerous other bits and pieces of software. Do you have any idea how pissed of I am... Ok I have a copy of my honours project on backup, the rest of the files, I dont even know what I lost to backup. How the hell do I start to recover nearly 100 email addies. This all down to a mail I recieved from Robin Walker . His mail was so large that my email launcher (Eudora) had to break it down into 30 parts just to deal with it, and then went over my 10 meg university hard drive space allocation. Thus causing all sorts of problems. Mistake me if I am wrong, but I dont seem to FRIGGIN recall asking for this information and I am in the right mind of sending it back to him (20 times over), but I shant. Please everybody, get it sorted, use the K.I.S.S. principle. KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID. Thanks a *uck** lot ROB!!! Geoffrey Lester Gibbs. The University of Liverpool, Port Erin Marine Biological Laboratories, Port Erin, Isle of Man, GB. ~Hottriangle@hotmail.com ~mb0u5038@liv.ac.uk ~http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/2962 From: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" 28-JAN-1998 08:35:06.13 To: IN%"rushenj@EM.AGR.CA" "Jeff Rushen" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: poste -- recrutement I take it only french speakers need apply....? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Watts (___) ) ) University of Saskatchewan |o o|___________/ ( Dept of Herd Medicine O \#/ | ) and Theriogenology |bser| | Statistical | ( Western College of Vet. Med. |vati| | analysis | ) 52 Campus Drive |ons.| \___________/| *& Saskatoon ------ || || %$#@ S7N 1B4 / \ || || ^*@*~ Canada &^%%#$@ wattsjon@duke.usask.ca "The Holy Cow" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IN%"rushenj@EM.AGR.CA" "Jeff Rushen" 28-JAN-1998 08:43:24.63 To: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: poste -- recrutement -REPONSE I don't know for sure, but I would suppose that an inability to decipher the message would render it somewhat irrelvant. Jeff >>> Jon Watts 28/01/ 09h34 >>> I take it only french speakers need apply....? From: IN%"nick.green@bbc.co.uk" 28-JAN-1998 10:09:00.12 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: No Subject I am researching a new series for the BBC called Walking with Dinosaurs and I am wondering whether anyone is interested in using modern day analogies for looking at past systems. I would love to have a brain-storm with anyone interested. Please contact me on nick.green@bbc.co.uk Cheers, Nick Green. From: IN%"scrowell@calc.vet.uga.edu" "Sharon Crowell-Davis" 28-JAN-1998 10:45:29.07 To: IN%"mb0u5038@liverpool.ac.uk" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Technical problems? I didn't experience any technical problems as a consequence of Robin's communications. Did anyone else besides Geoffrey? It was a pretty ordinary-sized email when it reached Georgia. Sharon Crowell-Davis ********************************************** Sharon L. Crowell-Davis DVM, PhD Diplomate, American College of Veterinary Behaviorists College of Veterinary Medicine University of Georgia Athens, Georgia 30602 scrowell@calc.vet.uga.edu If a little knowledge is dangerous, where is the man who has so much as to be out of danger? T.H. Huxley On Elementary Instruction in Physiology From: IN%"smillman@APS.UoGuelph.CA" "Suzanne Millman" 28-JAN-1998 11:20:41.18 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Robin Walker's email Can't say that I always agree with what Robin Walker has to say, but I do enjoy reading his contributions. Can't say that I much enjoyed reading Geoffrey's. I received the emails with no difficulty so maybe Geoffrey's problem is in his local network? How about checking such things out before attacking someone with ideas to share? Suzanne Millman From: IN%"JGMORRIGAN@imail.nsac.ns.ca" "Jane G Morrigan" 28-JAN-1998 11:32:34.94 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: here are the responses re heart rate monitor for cows! Hi all who expressed interest in the responses I received to my inquiry on this line re heart rate monitors for a stress experiment with dairy cattle. The following is a paste job containing all the responses I received, and I hope the info and references are some help to you as they have been for me. I personally want something accurate and un-wieldy which I can use, ideally, on the cow's tail vein --- where there is no hair (therefore no clipping required), and which would be easy to put on and take off in a commercial slaughterhouse environment. There are nifty little transmitters/receivers for human athletic use which may be adapted for animal purposes, if proven accurate and reliable, and I am looking into these. I'll pass on any intersting info to this line, and of course would be interested to hear from any of you if this has already been tried and proven true or false! Once again, thanks to all those on this terrific line who responded to my inquiry. Judging from the number of people who requested that I pass on the info I received, the subject seems to be an interesting one to many! Regards to all, Jane Morrigan Nova Scotia Agricultural College Truro, Nova Scotia Canada jgmorrigan@imail.nsac.ns.ca Date sent: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:11:51 +0100 (MET) From: Frank Odberg To: Jane G Morrigan Subject: Re: heart-rate monitor for cows Get in touch with Hans Hopster at Lelystad: H.HOPSTER@id.dlo.nl Prof.Dr. Frank O. Odberg University of Ghent Dpt. of Animal Nutrition, Genetics, Production and Ethology Heidestraat 19 B-9820 Merelbeke Belgium tel: +32-(0)9-2647804 fax: 7849 From: "M S Cockram, VCS" Organization: Veterinary Medicine, Summerhall To: JGMORRIGAN@imail.nsac.ns.ca Date sent: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:57:51 +0000 Subject: heart-rate monitor for cows Send reply to: M.S.Cockram@ed.ac.uk Priority: normal Dear Jane, I do not have the complete answer for you, but the following reference may be useful. Hopster, H. and Blokhuis, H.J. 1994. Validation of a heart- rate monitor for measuring a stress response in dairy cows. Canadian Journal of Animal Science 74: 465-474. A few years ago we carried out some studies of cattle in slaughterhouse races. The references are as follows: Cockram, M.S. and Corley, K.T.T. 1991. Effect of pre-slaughter handling on the behaviour and blood composition of beef-cattle. British Veterinary Journal 147: 444-454. Jarvis, A.M., Selkirk, L. and Cockram, M.S. 1995. The influence of source, sex class and pre-slaughter handling on the bruising of cattle at two slaughterhouses. Livestock Production Science 43: 215-224. Good luck with your MSc thesis on assessing "welfare risk" for cull dairy cows who end up in a slaughterhouse. Michael Cockram Michael Cockram Dept. of Veterinary Clinical Studies University of Edinburgh Veterinary Field Station Easter Bush, Roslin Midlothian, EH25 9RG UK. Tel. 0131-650-6272 Fax. 0131-650-6588 Email address M.S.Cockram@ed.ac.uk Date sent: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:58:24 +0100 To: Jane G Morrigan From: Nicholas Tyler Subject: Re: heart-rate monitor for cows We have had great success using the 'Polar Sport tester' for measuring HR in reindeer. This lightweight, simple, cheap device gives excellent results which match more complicated ECG recordings in these animals very well indeed. It is widely used on cattle, sheep, red deer and horses. I can send you a bunch of references if you wish: meanwhile, I suggest you start your literature search with the paper by Hopster and Blokhuis 1994 Validation of a heart-rate monitor for measuring a stress response in dairy cows. Can. J. Anim. Sci. 74: 465-474. Yours sincerely, Nicholas Tyler Department of Biology, University of Tromso, N-9037 Tromso, Norway tel.(direct): +47 77 64 47 88 fax.: +47 77 64 56 00 mobile phone: +47 90 57 72 98 Date sent: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:10:15 +0100 To: Jane G Morrigan From: Nicholas Tyler Subject: Re: heart-rate monitor for cows Here are some more references to studies of HR in a variety of species. I have marked those which describe use ofthe Polar SPort tester. Yours sincerely, Nick Tyler Baldock, N. M. and Sibly, R. M. (1990). Effects of handling and transportation on the heart rate and behavior of sheep. Appl. Anim. Beh. Sci., 28: 15-39 Baldock, N. M. Sibly, R. M. & Penning, P. D. (1988). Behaviour and seasonal variations in heart rate in domestic sheep, Ovis aries. Animal behavior., 36: 35-43 Blix, A. S. Str=F8mme, B. S. and Ursin, H. (1974). Additional heart rate-An indicator of phychological activation. Aerospace medical Association, vol.45, no.11 Chabot, D. Bayer, M. and Roos, A. d. (1991). Instantaneous heart rate and other techniques introducing errors in the calculation of heart rate. Can. J. Zool., 69: 1117-1120 Clabough, D. L. & Swanson, C. R. (1989). Heart rate spectral analysis of fasting-induced bradycardia of cattle. Am. J. Physiol., 257:1303-1306 Eisermann, K. Meier, B. Khaschei, M. and Holst, D. v. (1993) Ethophysiological responsen to overwinter food shortage in wild European rabbits. Physiology and Behavior, 54: 973-980 Eisermann, K. (1988) Seasonal and environmental influences upon the diurnal heart rate pattern in wild rabbits living under seminatural conditions. Physiology and Behavior, 43:559-565 Haresign, W. Williams, R. J. Khalid, M. and Rodway, R. (1995). Heart rate responsen and plasma cortisol and Beta-endorphin concentrations in ewes subjected to laparoscopy and its associated handling procedures. Anim. Sci., 61: 77-83 ***Hopster, H. & Blokhuis, H. J. (1994). Validation of a heart rate monitor for measuring a stress response in dairy cows. Canadian Journal of Anim. Sci., 74: 465-474 ***Karvonen, J. Chwalbinska-Moneta, J. & Saynajakangas, S. (1984). Comparsion of heart rates measured by ECG and microcomputer. The Physician and Sportmedicin., vol.12, nr.6 MacArthur, R. A. Johnston, R. H. and Geist, V. (1979). Factors influencing heart rate in free-ranging bighorn sheep: a physilogical approach to the study of wildlife harassment. Can J. Zool., 57: 2010-2021 Pollard, J. C. Littlejohn, R. P. and Suttie, J. M. (1993). Effects of isolation and mixing of social groups on heart rate and behaviour of red deer stags. Appl. Anim. Beh. Sci., 38: 311-322 Price, S. Sibly, R. M. & Davies, M. H. (1993). Effects of behaviour and handling on heart rate in farmed red deer. Appl. Anim. Beh. Sci., 37: 111-23 ***Seaward, B. L. et. al. (1990). The precision and accuracy of a portable heart rate monitor. Biomedical instrumentation and technology., 24: 37-41 ***Sloet van Oldruitenborgh-Oosterbaan, M. M. Hoven, Van den R. and Brekuink, H. J. (1988). The accuracy of three different heart rate meters used for studies in the exercising horse. J. Vet. Med., 35: 665-672 St=F6hr. W. (1988). Longterm heart rate telemetry in small mammals: A comprehensive approach as a prerequisite for valid results. Physiology and Behavior, 43: 567-576 Nicholas Tyler Department of Biology, University of Tromso, N-9037 Tromso, Norway tel.(direct): +47 77 64 47 88 fax.: +47 77 64 56 00 mobile phone: +47 90 57 72 98 From: "Neil Ambrose" Organization: The University of Birmingham To: Jane G Morrigan Date sent: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:35:18 +0000 Subject: Re: heart-rate monitor for cows Send reply to: n.ambrose@bham.ac.uk Priority: normal Jane, How about some sort of pulse-oximeter. I have seen veterinary ones used on cats and dogs that measure O2 saturation and give heart rate. They are the 'glowing red' things they stick on people's fingers in ER. I guess there might be a suitable blood vessel in the ear that could be used. The box of electronics is about the size of a cigar box and could be fitted to a strap of sorts. I know of research by CAMBAC JMR research in the UK that used strap on monitors for pigs, a lit search might throw up the paper. If you are stuck email me directly and I'll find the ref. Cheers Neil Neil Ambrose Department of Biomedical Science and Ethics The University of Birmingham Edgabaston Birmingham B15 2TT 0121 414 5390 (W) 0589 236 345 (M) Email - N.Ambrose@bham.ac.uk - Main mail Please note sending unsolicited commercial email to any of the above addresses will incur a stlg10 administration fee. Date sent: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:30:51 -0600 (CST) From: joseph.stookey@usask.ca Subject: Re: heart-rate monitor for cows To: JGMORRIGAN@imail.nsac.ns.ca Dear Jane, I realize you posted this message awhile ago, but I haven't had a chance to respond until now. Maybe you have already heard a similar version of this from someone else, but I will tell you what we do here to measure HR in bovines. We have an old telemetry system from the hospital. Originally it was designed to hook up to patients and have the data sent to the receiver/ screen/printout at the nursing station. It is made by Quinton insturments. What I like about the equipment is that it is obsolete for the hospital, but we have made it work great for our needs and nearly no cost. We shave two spots on the cow, each shaved area is about 2 inches square. One site is located a couple of inches behind the elbow and the other a couple of inches behind the shoulder blade. This provides the necessary angle projected through the heart to give us a good reading. Within each site we place a surgical staple. Directly on the top of the animal between the shoulder blades we glue a strip of Velcro onto the cow. The transponder (about the size of a cigarette pack also is wrapped in Velcro and it sticks right onto the back of the cow. Wire leads coming from the transponder run down to the staples where we attach the electrodes which are fitted with alligator clips. We do test on up to 40 animals a day (exposed to various stimuli) by hooking up the transponder for the test, removing it after the test and placing it onto the next animal. The surgical staples last for weeks and we never reshave the site as long as we can find the staple and we always get a good connection. I should tell you that our test are of short duration and we have never tried to use this set up for a long term study, but if you only want the heart rate response for a short period of time, our system works great and is cheap. Initially we had all kinds of trouble trying to get good readings and frustrated ourselves everyday until we switched to staples, velcro and alligator clips. Personally, I wouldn't trade our system for any of the newer high priced unit which are surgically implanted, etc. Anyway, that is how we do it. I hope you find some of our ideas useful. Sincerely, Joe Stookey =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Joseph M.Stookey Department of Herd Medicine and Theriogenology Western College of Veterinary Medicine University of Saskatchewan Saskatoon, Saskatchewan S7N 5B4 From: IN%"pbmcconn@facstaff.wisc.edu" 28-JAN-1998 12:44:20.63 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Tech problems? Just as a point of information, I had to delete the email in question (heat, horses etc) from Robin Walker in order to download the rest of my email. Luckily a techno wizard at the Univ was able to do it for me, I wouldn't have a clue otherwise. (I did have to give him my password tho', ouch!). Once the message was deleted I was able to download the rest of my mail, but not before. Having said that, perhaps this is a good time to recall the importance of seperating out action and intention. It quite simply never occured to me that Robin had nefariously sent some monster vicious email knowing full well that it would cause problems. Perhaps some of us on the list, difficult as life may be, might do well to recall the importance of seperating out the message from the messenger? Cheers, especially to Robin, Trisha *********************************** Patricia B. McConnell, Ph.D. Ass't Adjunct Professor, Dept. of Zoology, UW-Madison Birge Hall, Madison, Wisconsin 53706 Applied Ethologist, Dog's Best Friend, Ltd. P.O. Box 447 Black Earth, Wisconsin 53515 608 767-2435 FAX 608 767-3726 (Send mail or calls here, not to UW) ************************************ From: IN%"scrowell@calc.vet.uga.edu" "Sharon Crowell-Davis" 28-JAN-1998 14:18:38.41 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Technical problems? > Maybe the > error is only connected to the program "Eudora" since Geoffrey also used > Eudora to download it. I was using "Pegasus Mail", which handled it just find, not Eudora. > Anyway, I think it was just an unfortunate error with no personal origin, so > I think there's no need to let out the anger on Robin. Definately. The web is no place to forget basic good manners. Sharon Crowell-Davis ********************************************** Sharon L. Crowell-Davis DVM, PhD Diplomate, American College of Veterinary Behaviorists College of Veterinary Medicine University of Georgia Athens, Georgia 30602 scrowell@calc.vet.uga.edu If a little knowledge is dangerous, where is the man who has so much as to be out of danger? T.H. Huxley On Elementary Instruction in Physiology From: IN%"n93kkj@nat.ou.dk" "Kenneth Kragh Jensen" 28-JAN-1998 14:25:32.88 To: IN%"scrowell@calc.vet.uga.edu" "Sharon Crowell-Davis" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Technical problems? Yes I also had problems. I had to try 4 times to download it cause the downloading in my Eudora suddenly stopped. I think there was some kind of error in Roberts email that wasn't because of the length of it. Maybe the error is only connected to the program "Eudora" since Geoffrey also used Eudora to download it. Anyway, I think it was just an unfortunate error with no personal origin, so I think there's no need to let out the anger on Robin. Kenneth At 11:43 28/01/98 -0500, you wrote: >I didn't experience any technical problems as a consequence of >Robin's communications. Did anyone else besides Geoffrey? It was a >pretty ordinary-sized email when it reached Georgia. > >Sharon Crowell-Davis > >********************************************** >Sharon L. Crowell-Davis DVM, PhD >Diplomate, American College of Veterinary Behaviorists >College of Veterinary Medicine >University of Georgia >Athens, Georgia 30602 >scrowell@calc.vet.uga.edu > > >If a little knowledge is dangerous, >where is the man who has so much >as to be out of danger? > >T.H. Huxley >On Elementary Instruction in Physiology > > > From: IN%"Kate.Littin.1@uni.massey.ac.nz" "Kate Littin" 28-JAN-1998 19:11:16.69 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: hens and hierarchies Hello all, i am writing a masterate thesis on social stress in hens ( specifically on corticosterone in plasma and droppings before and after mixing unknown hens) and was wondering whether anyone would care to comment on an observation... we determined the pecking order of two groups of five hens before and after mixing them together to form one group of 10. I watched them for pecks, threats, fights, chases, displacement (supplanting) and 'exploratory' pecking (gentle feather pecking) and gave them a social rank index based on dominance in more than 75% of interactions. As in other reports of peck order observations, there were some hens which never or very rarely interacted with certain others after mixing. These hens did not show abnormally submissive behaviour, they merely appeared to 'happen' not to cross the paths of other hens. Neither were they obviously supplanted. Others appeared to immediately take up a particular place in the hierarchy without any noticeable interactions. The hens that showed this were all somewhere in the middle or at the bottom of the hierarchy. Both of these observations could be explained by other means, eg. behaviours not obvious to observer, 'personality'/ previous experiences, etc. but ... I was wondering whether it would be possible that they had observed other previously known hens from their own original group interacting with the unknown hens. If a hen knew the social status of the other (known) hen based on the known hen's relationship with itself, would it avoid those unknown hens it had seen dominating the known hen, or confront those hens it had seen being dominated by the known hen? I got a pretty funny reaction when i asked this question to fellow students (they also had a hard time believing hens can learn how to perform a task by watching hens on a video recording )! The maintenance of hierarchies has not been of major importance to my thesis, so the grounds for this idea may be way off track. Thanks in advance for your ideas, regards, Kate Littin. ================================== = Kate Littin = = Dept. Physiology & Anatomy = = Massey University = = Private Bag 11-222 = = Palmerston North = = New Zealand (Aotearoa) = = ph +64 06 3504251 = = Kate.Littin.1@uni.massey.ac.nz = ================================== From: IN%"mb0u5038@liverpool.ac.uk" 28-JAN-1998 19:28:26.67 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Sincere apologies I will keep this short and sweet, as I feel extremely embarresed for my outbreak on the network yesterday. Perhaps from an ethology point of view, one can begin to understand how and why I acted so stupidly yesterday (I look for no sympathy). Possibly, the Eudora package is at fault, as the email I recieved ended up being over 3 meg of ascii text. I lost some important information, however this does not justify my actions. I know Robin Walker wasn't at fault, nor intended to create any form of chaos. Computers, I guess, are there to test us. I acted in a very stupid and immature fashion when I lashed out, it was a 1am hot-headed spur of the moment swipe at Robin Walker. It shows I have things to learn. Mr. Walker, this is firstly, a public apology for what should have been a private mail, and secondly (more importantly) not sent at all. My sincerest apologies Mr. Walker. Geoffrey Lester Gibbs. The University of Liverpool, Port Erin Marine Biological Laboratories, Port Erin, Isle of Man, GB. ~Hottriangle@hotmail.com ~mb0u5038@liv.ac.uk ~http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/2962 From: IN%"nlp@princevc.com" "Nancy Prince" 28-JAN-1998 23:34:34.29 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Technical Difficulties I'm a professional internet consultant and web developer (with a strong layperson's interest in applied ethology, of course). I have been reading this list with interest for the last two years. I use Eudora Pro 3.0 and had no trouble whatsoever with Robin's message, which was an average size message for this list when it got here. There are many possible causes for the problem with the message. For instance, the problem could well have been with the way each institution's or internet service provider's mail server is set up, not with the mail software used to read the message. In fact, since the problem seems to have occurred when the mail was downloaded, not when it was opened and read, it was most likely not the e-mail program (though it could have been). Without descending into the abyss of technicality... When e-mail is sent over the internet, it is broken down into pieces (called "packets") at the sender's server. Each packet then makes its way, independently and often by a different route, to the receiving server, where the packets are then reassembled into the message. The usual scheme is that the reassembly happens at the server, well before a user logs onto the server and downloads the message with his or her e-mail package. Messages received from Robin at a specific server could be correctly reassembled 1000 times and then be assembled incorrectly the 1001st time. Another problem could have been that one or more of the packets became corrpted while traveling across the net to their destination, and thus the reassembled message was messed up, or it never got assembled correctly in the first place. Packets designated for person X and personY and person Z could have passed through the same "leg" of the internet---a leg that was having problems, such that the packets that passed through there were corrupted. Packets that went to person K and person M and person R might not have passed through that "leg" of the net and would not have been corrupted. These are just two examples of the kind of thing it could be (and a bug in a specific version of Eudora is still a *possibility, * so that makes three examples). Actually, there are at least six other things I can think of off the top of my head that might have caused or contributed to this phenomena, as I have understood it from the messages I've read so far. I doubt anyone has the time to investigate everything and come to a real conclusion. However, I *do* think it is reasonable to conclude that it was not Robin's personal fault. If Robin had sent out an e-mail that was corrupted when it left his computer, everyone's message would have been bad. The fact is that computers are not infalible. Hardware malfunctions. Networks have glitches. Software programs have bugs. Servers can be overloaded. All we humans can do is back up critical data on a regular schedule, not assign blame (or deliberate malevolence!) to people when computers foul up, and sit on our flame messages for 24 hours before sending them. Like Geoffrey, at one time or another in my life I have made these same mistakes. I have always rued them afterwards. I am going to back up all my critical data right now. Thanks for the reminder, Geoffrey! Nancy Prince nlp@princevc.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Nancy Prince, Prince Virtual Communications nlp@princevc.com USA Phone 423.483.6766 Visit us at http://www.princevc.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- From: IN%"mappleby@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk" "Mike Appleby" 29-JAN-1998 04:18:41.35 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: hens and hierarchies Kate et al. > I was wondering whether it would be possible that they had observed other previously known hens from their own original group interacting with the unknown hens. If a hen knew the social status of the other (known) hen based on the known hen's relationship with itself, would it avoid those unknown hens it had seen dominating the known hen, or confront those hens it had seen being dominated by the known hen? > There are two relevant papers in Behavioural Processes - although I regret I don't have the full references. One by Hogue, Beaugrand and Lague (I think it was published in 1996) was an experimental demonstration that hens COULD do this. The other by Pagel and Dawkins (1997?) was a theoretical demonstration that they SHOULD do this. However, the question remains whether they DO do this! Perhaps your set-up is ideal - two small groups being forced together so that each hen had to sort out her relationships with the strangers in a limited space (incidentally, were they mixed on neutral ground, or what?). But it would be good to have this tested properly - i.e. with a large number of such groups, in very controlled conditions. Mike From: IN%"robin@coape.win-uk.net" "Robin Walker" 29-JAN-1998 05:14:05.80 To: IN%"mb0u5038@liverpool.ac.uk" "'mb0u5038@liverpool.ac.uk'" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology Network (E-mail)" Subj: RE: Sincere apologies. Dear Geoffrey, Your gracious apology is most warmly accepted. It was a troubling start to the day because as Nancy Prince has explained we are not really masters of these machines! I was dry mouthed with dismay in the thought that somehow Microsoft Office 97 had dispatched the contents of my half filled 5 gigabyte drive, video clips and all! However my feelings were wreaked upon three young thugs who got into the rear of the Practice just as I emerged from reading a solitary spiteful e-mail from one subscriber. The result was pure ethology. Outraged and the resource holder on his own territory very tall, very hairy, bulked up with huge leather outerwear over an 18 stone start, I yelled and charged. Two 18 year-olds fled on the instant. A 20 year-old (just out of gaol) froze made a very fast risk assessment and also fled. I pursued as fast as a 61 year-old with borrowed coronary vessels and a winter exercise tolerance of close to zero can manage but I guess I sounded close behind them. In their panic the trio ran up the one entirely predictable arm of the radial maze of little streets around here. I was able to call the Police and predict their destination. Six jubilant officers nabbed them! The neighbour hood watch is cock-a-hoop. My staff have been asked for the 112th time to lock the "beep" back door. I will get back an elderly Bosch Power Drill. What is more important....you have your thesis. Robin -----Original Message----- From: mb0u5038@liverpool.ac.uk [SMTP:mb0u5038@liverpool.ac.uk] Sent: 29 January 1998 01:39 To: Robin Walker Subject: Sincere apologies. Dear Sir, Please accept my apologies for my wild, childish outbreak yesterday. It was a long night, and I realise you had no intention of causing any chaos. I have a lot to learn. I have made a public apology for my mistake, I was wrong and cannot begin to express how sorry I am for my tone yesterday. From: IN%"zanella@pilot.msu.edu" "Dr. Adroaldo J. Zanella" 29-JAN-1998 13:35:30.95 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: North American Regional Meeting (ISAE) Very first announcement: ISAE North American Regional Meeting The meeting will be held in East Lansing, MI, 26 & 27 June 1998. There will be workshops, spoken papers (graduate students are invited to contribute) and four plenary talks. Some financial help for graduate students (presenting papers) will be available on a competitive basis. Deadline for abstract submission: March 27. Michigan State University http://www.msu.edu Meeting location http://www.hfs.msu.edu/kellogg/ A.J.Zanella Local organizer Dr. Adroaldo Jos=E9 Zanella Assistant Professor Ethology and Environmental Physiology Department of Animal Science Michigan State University Anthony Hall, East Lansing , MI 48824 =46ax: (517) 353 1699 Phone: (517) 432 4134 From: IN%"olsen@virgil.ruc.dk" "Lars M. Olsen" 29-JAN-1998 19:40:38.77 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology-L" CC: Subj: fw: Feral extermination programme (Israel), help needed. Alpha-chloralose, microchips. Dear all, I was asked to see if I could help find people working = with cats to have a look at this. Sorry if this message falls out of the scope of this = group. Lars -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------- Lars M. Olsen Environmental Biology Dept. Roskilde University DK-4000 Denmark SET FELINE-L TOPICS=3D-CATCHAT -RESCUE -LEGIS -TEST +CATCARE +NEWSLETTER = +RAIN +HUGS +TAILS Http://virgil.ruc.dk/~olsen/ The Scratching Post Denmark -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----------------------------------------- Dato: 30. januar 1998 01:25 Emne: Re: CATCARE,RESCUE:FERAL EXPERT needed asap Lars, The following post explains the issue in more detail. It now turns out = we can also use letters though live wittnesses are better. We need people with knowlege of ferals and rabies and microchips would also be helpful. Subject: URGENT:Feral Cat Experts needed to fight mass eradication I just received a call from Rivi Meyer of the Cat Welfare Association. The Israel Vet Services at the Ministry of Agriculture has requested = that the Knesset Finance Committee allocate money to totally eradicate feral = cats using alpha-chloralose poisoning. They are claiming this is the only way to fight rabies even though there have only been two confirmed cases of rabies in cats in the past year. The Association will pay for feral cat experts to fly to Israel to = testify that mass eradication of ferals will not solve the rabies problem. This is extremely urgent, please contact me ASAP. Thank you. Sincerely, Ellen Moshenberg If you want to contact Rivi Meyer - Chairperson - Cat Welfare Society of Israel directly her numbers are: Fax 972 9 7402491 Home phone 7429757 work 7417329 =9BDial 011 if calling from US. Phone and fax numbers would be particularly helpful as Rivi is = contacting people directly and is not on the net. Thanks again, Ellen From: IN%"apnas@south-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk" "A. SAHIN" 30-JAN-1998 05:29:21.16 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: introducing Dear Applied-etiology Administrator/ s Thank you very much for accepting me to your network. I am a third-year PhD student in the Leeds University at the Dept .of Animal Physiology and Nutrition under supervision of Prof.J.M. Forbes. My study area is '' diet selection in chickens'' . Yours sincerely, Ahmt Sahin The University of Leeds The school of Biology The Dept. of Animal Physiology and Nutrition LS2 9 JT, Leeds, UK From: IN%"hubrecht@ufaw.org.uk" 30-JAN-1998 07:26:23.88 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: IN%"COMPMED@LISTSERV.AALAS.ORG" Subj: Research Training Scholarships New UFAW scheme to encourage animal welfare research To encourage high quality science likely to lead to substantial advances in animal welfare, the Universities Federation for Animal Welfare is establishing a scheme to award Animal Welfare Research Training Scholarships for promising veterinary or other science graduates in th UK to undertake 3-year research projects leading to degrees at the doctorate level. The first of these scholarships is to be awarded in July 1998. The scheme is being advertised now and UFAW is particularly keen to receive applications for (a) studies that may lead to significant developments in the assessment of the welfare of animals or (b) new approaches to providing insight into the subjective mental experiences of animals relevant to their welfare. However, applications for projects in other aspects of animal welfare science will also be considered. The scholarships are open to candidates in appropriate academic departments in the UK. Application is by a 2-stage process with project supervisors initially submitting a brief concept notes by 3rd April 1998. Further information and application forms for the concept note can be obtained via the UFAW website: http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~ufaw3/. Alternatively mail UFAW The Old School Brewhouse Hill Wheathampstead Herts AL4 8AN, Tel 01582-831818, Fax 01582-831414 From: IN%"carloni@psibo.unibo.it" 30-JAN-1998 07:31:40.75 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: dom.cat behaviour Dear list members, I am an Italian graduate student in Animal behaviour. I have some experience of research in the field of socio-ecology and behavioural ecology of Primates, but am currently busy with companion animals' behaviour. I am writing to this list in the hope of finding some collaboration in the collection of data for the exploratory phase of a project. I am starting a research project on conflict interference in cats. In fact, I have observed several instances of this behaviour in domestic cats, directed either towards family components (humans) or towards group members (other cats in group-living stray cats). I define "conflict interference" as any actions by the subject cat that interfere successfully or unsuccessfully with an agonistic interaction between 2 or more other familiar individuals. The c.i. is successful when the aggression is blocked or diminishes in intensity. In contrast to what is observable in other species such as Primates however, it is difficult to discriminate between success and unsuccess in cats' agonistic interactions. Therefore I am, for the time being, satisfied with the registration of the interfering act without much regard to its consequences. The study will be carried out on one side on communally living cats (stray cats, cats at breeders', cats in farms, etc.) through direct behavioural observations and on the other side on cats living in human families through collection of anecdotal evidence. It is for the latter that I need your help. Sampling list members would certainly increase my sample size! Any willing respondents should indicate(whether possible): 1) whether his/her cat(s) do(es) actually interfere in conflicts between familiar people, cats, other family pets 2) what the interference consists of (miaowing, physically interposing, biting, showing distress, scratching around or otherwise distracting the contendents, etc.) 3) whether such interference involves any physical contacts or any kinds of communication directed specifically towards only one or mainly one of the contendents 4) the identity of this target individual (sex, age, hierarchical position relative to victim and subject cat, degree of relatedness with victim and/or with subject cat, degree of affiliation with subject cat, particular features of this target individual such as violent, aggressive or nervous behaviour, high or low pitched voice, etc.) Ideally, of course, those "cat tutors" who own non-interfering cats should be as willing to respond as those who have interfering cats, otherwise I would not be able to draw conclusions on the incidence of this feature. I therefore encourage all those of you who have had the stamina to reach this point to send me an answer. Needles to say, I would be EXTREMELY GRATEFUL to all of you for any collaboration and for the kind patience in accepting and reading this long message. Of course, I will summarize on this list all the answers I get (if I am still accepted on it after this request) Thanks to all of you and again sorry for the length... Elena Carloni ********************************** Elena Carloni Universita' degli Studi di Bologna Dipartimento di Psicologia Viale Berti Pichat, 5 40127 Bologna Italy carloni@psibo.unibo.it ********************************** From: IN%"claire.weeks@bristol.ac.uk" "Claire Weeks" 30-JAN-1998 07:56:28.45 To: IN%"rhb11@hermes.cam.ac.uk" "R. H. Bradshaw" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: ISAE 98 - abstracts On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:02:35 +0000 "R. H. Bradshaw" wrote: > I have been told that I can not submit more than ONE first author abstract > to this conference. I have been told that to submit two abstracts I must > reverse author order. I do not agree with this policy ...... My opinion is that the organisers should select a balanced programme from submissions regardless of author. Surely the subject matter (and quality) is of the essence...but of course no person or group should dominate proceedings! ---------------------- Dr C A Weeks, DFAS, University of Bristol, Langford, Bristol, BS40 5DU (UK) Tel: (44) 0117 928 9316 Fax: (44) 0117 928 9324 claire.weeks@bris.ac.uk From: IN%"hubrecht@ufaw.org.uk" 30-JAN-1998 08:10:53.41 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: IN%"COMPMED%LISTSERV.AALAS.ORG.RAT-TALK@NIC.SURFNET.NL" Subj: Research Training Scholarships Re the advert. As the web site makes clear, further details should be obtained from the UFAW office ie by mail at the address below or by email: ufaw@ufaw.org.uk I would be grateful if you would send all enquiries to these addresses, and not to me! Robert C Hubrecht hubrecht@ufaw.org.uk PLEASE NOTE UFAW's NEW ADDRESS and TELEPHONE NUMBERS Dr R Hubrecht Deputy Director UFAW Universities Federation for Animal Welfare The Old School Brewhouse Hill Wheathampstead Herts AL4 8AN UK Tel +44 (0) 1582 831818 Fax +44 (0) 1582 831414 ********* UFAW Web site******** http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~ufaw3/ ***************************** From: IN%"hubrecht@ufaw.org.uk" 30-JAN-1998 08:12:18.14 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: IN%"COMPMED@LISTSERV.AALAS.ORG", IN%"RAT-TALK@NIC.SURFNET.NL" Subj: Research Training Scholarships Re the advert. As the web site makes clear, further details should be obtained from the UFAW office ie by mail at the address below or by email: ufaw@ufaw.org.uk I would be grateful if you would send all enquiries to these addresses, and not to me! Sorry for remail, I made a mistake in the cc. Robert C Hubrecht hubrecht@ufaw.org.uk PLEASE NOTE UFAW's NEW ADDRESS and TELEPHONE NUMBERS Dr R Hubrecht Deputy Director UFAW Universities Federation for Animal Welfare The Old School Brewhouse Hill Wheathampstead Herts AL4 8AN UK Tel +44 (0) 1582 831818 Fax +44 (0) 1582 831414 ********* UFAW Web site******** http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~ufaw3/ ***************************** From: IN%"rushenj@EM.AGR.CA" "Jeff Rushen" 30-JAN-1998 08:30:47.13 To: IN%"claire.weeks@bristol.ac.uk", IN%"rhb11@hermes.cam.ac.uk" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: ISAE 98 - abstracts -REPONSE >>> Claire Weeks 30/01/ 08h29 >>> My opinion is that the organisers should select a balanced programme from submissions regardless of author. Surely the subject matter (and quality) is of the essence >>> This might be the ideal situation but the reality is that there are increasing numbers of submissions of presentations for ISAE meetings. This has already led to parallel sessions and increasing use of posters, and a strain on reviewers of abstracts. Personally I think that too much of the conferences are taken up by presentations with there being insufficient time for discussions and simply talking to people (which is probably the most fruitful part of a meeting). A simple solution (and probably fairest- or least likely to lead to complaints) is to limit the number of presentations that any one person can give. We could allow more than one poster perhaps, but it is important that people be available to discuss their posters, which might be difficult if one has 20 posters! Everyone has lots of important things to say. It is a question of deciding which is the most essential that people hear. Jeff Rushen From: IN%"Kate.Littin.1@uni.massey.ac.nz" "Kate Littin" 30-JAN-1998 23:31:51.05 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: thanks Hi all, thanks very much for all the responses to my request re: formation of pecking orders. I have not been able to contact some respondents personally due to problems with my e-mail! Regards, Kate. ================================== = Kate Littin = = Dept. Physiology & Anatomy = = Massey University = = Private Bag 11-222 = = Palmerston North = = New Zealand (Aotearoa) = = ph +64 06 3504251 = = Kate.Littin.1@uni.massey.ac.nz = ================================== From: IN%"robin@coape.win-uk.net" "Robin Walker" 31-JAN-1998 12:07:56.10 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology Network (E-mail)" CC: Subj: Thanks I am very grateful for the many friendly and supportive messages that I have received. Thank you all Robin