From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 17-JAN-1999 21:24:24.86 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych", IN%"darwin-and-darwinism-request@sheffield.ac.uk" "Darwin List_Serve" CC: Subj: Petition re the Treatment of Women in Afghanistan. (fwd) Friends, Please consider the following and sign. Jim Brody -------------Forwarded Message----------------- From: Irwin Silverman, INTERNET:isilv@yorku.ca To: , INTERNET:hbe-l@a3.com = Date: 1/17/99 9:40 AM RE: Petition re the Treatment of Women in Afghanistan. (fwd) List members - Please read and, if so inclined, sign and post to any othe= r listserves or individuals you feel may be appropriate. If the petition has more than 50 names on it, please forward to sarabande@brandeis.edu as= well. = TEXT: The government of Afghanistan is waging a war upon women. The situation is getting so bad that one person in an editorial of the times compared the treatment of women there to the treatment of jews in pre-holocaust Poland. Since the Taliban took power in 1996, women have had to wear burqua and have been beaten and stoned in public for not having the proper attire, even if this means simply not having the mesh covering in front of their eyes. One woman was beaten to DEATH by an angry mob of funda- mentalists for accidentally exposing her arm while she was driving. Another was stoned to death for trying to leave the country with a man that was not a relative. Women are not allowed to work or even go out in public without a male relative. Professional women such as professors, translators, doctors, lawyers, artists andwriters have been forced from their jobs and stuffed into their homes, so that depression is becoming so wide- spread that it has reached emergency levels. There is no way in such an extreme islamic society to know the suicide rate with certainty, but relief workers are estimating that the suicide rate among women, who cannot find proper medication and treatment for severe depression and would rather take their lives than live in such conditions, has increased significantly. Homes where a woman is present must have their windows painted so that she can never be seen by outsiders. They must wear silent shoes so that they are never heard. Women live in fear of their lives for the slightest misbehavior. Because they cannot work, those without male relatives or husbands are either starving to death or begging on the street, even if they hold Ph.D.'s. There are almost no medical facilities available for women, and relief workers, in protest, have mostly left the country, taking medicine and psychologists and other things necessary to treat the sky-rocketing level of depression among women. At one of the rare hospitals for women, a reporter found still, nearly lifeless bodies lying motionless on top of beds, wrapped in their burqua, unwilling to speak, eat or do anything, but are slowly wasting away. Others have gone mad and were seen crouched in corners, perpetually rocking or crying, most of them in fear. One doctor is considering, when what little medication that is left finally runs out, leaving these women in front of the president's residence as a form of peaceful protest. It is at the point where the term 'human rights violations' have become an understatement. Husbands have the power of life and death over their women relatives, especially their wives, but an angry mob has just as much right to stone or beat a woman, often to death, for exposing an inch of flesh or offending them in the slightest way. David Cornwell has told me that we in the United States should not judge the Afghan people for such treatment because it is a 'cultural thing', but this is not even true. Women enjoyed relative freedom, to work, dress generally as they wanted, and drive and appear in public alone until only 1996 --the rapidity of this transition is the main reason for the depression and suicide; women who were once educators or doctors or simply used to basic human freedoms are now severely restricted and treated as sub-human in the name of right-wing fundamentalist Islam. It is not their tradition or 'culture', but is alien to them, and it is extreme even for those cultures where fundamentalism is the rule. Besides, if we could excuse everything on cultural grounds, then we should not be appalled that the Carthaginians sacrificed their infant children, that little girls are circumcised in parts of Africa, that blacks in the deep south in the 1930's were lynched, prohibited from voting and forced to submit to unjust jim crow laws. Everyone has a right to a tolerable human existence, even if they are women in a muslim country in a part of the world that Americans do not understand. If we can threaten military force in Kosovo in the name of human rights for the sake of ethnic Albanians, Americans can certainly express peaceful outrage at the oppression, murder and injustice commited against women by the Taliban. STATEMENT: In signing this, we agree that the current treatment of women in Afghanistan is completely UNACCEPTABLE and deserves support and action by the people of the United States and the U.S. Government and that the current situation overseas will not be tolerated. Women's Rights is not a small issue anywhere and it is UNACCEPTABLE for women in 1998 to be treated as sub-human and so much as property. Equality and human decency is a RIGHT not a freedom, whether one lives in Afghanistan or the United States. 1) Leslie London, Cape Town, South Africa 2) Tim Holtz, Boston, USA 3) Jennifer Kasper, Boston, MA, USA 4) Ali Noorani, Boston, MA 5) Juli-Ann Carlos, Boston, MA, USA 6) Elaine Alpert, MD, Boston, MA USA 6) Ben Siegel, Boston MA, USA 7) D. Paul Robinson, Columbia, MO, USA 8) Holly Oswald, Columbia, MO, USA 9) Angela Soiferman, Tampa, FL, USA 10) Tracy Church, Chapel Hill, NC, USA 11) Kelly Beatty, Cary, NC, USA 12) Sara March Barber, Winston Salem, NC, USA 13) Debbie Allison, Pfafftown, NC USA 14) Lisa Clark, Winston-Salem, NC, USA 15) Jen Algire, Winston-Salem, NC, USA 16) Debra Benfield, Winston-Salem, NC,USA 17) Karen Hills, Greensboro, NC, USA 18) Miriam de Lyon, Newbury Park, CA, USA 19) E. Hirsch, Westlake Village, CA USA 20) Sheryl Witlin Bogad, Columbus, Ohio, USA 21) Shirley Beagelman, Wayne, NJ USA 22) Phyllis Shaitelman 23) Amy Shaitelman 24) Bob Shaitelman 25) Joyce Edel, NYC, NY 26) Mike Perlowin, Los Angeles CA 27) Nancy Roth, Van Nuys, CA 28) Melodie Tunick-Zide, Winnetka, CA 29) Rachel Zide, Winnetka, CA 30) Phyllis Levine, Thousand Oaks, CA 31) Evelyn I. Challis, Santa Monica, CA 32) Stanley Jeffers, Toronto, Canada 33) Igor Kusyszyn, Toronto, Canada 34) Florence Kusyszyn, Toronto, Canada 35) Irwin Silverman, Toronto, Canada 36) Alison Bury, Toronto, Canada 37) James Brody, Spring City, Pennsylvania From: IN%"pherosynthese@wanadoo.fr" 18-JAN-1999 02:27:03.05 To: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych", IN%"darwin-and-darwinism-request@sheffield.ac.uk" "Darwin List_Serve" Subj: RE: Petition re the Treatment of Women in Afghanistan. (fwd) James F. Brody wrote: > > Friends, > Please consider the following and sign. > Jim Brody > > -------------Forwarded Message----------------- > > From: Irwin Silverman, INTERNET:isilv@yorku.ca > To: , INTERNET:hbe-l@a3.com > > Date: 1/17/99 9:40 AM > > RE: Petition re the Treatment of Women in Afghanistan. (fwd) > > List members - Please read and, if so inclined, sign and post to any other > listserves or individuals you feel may be appropriate. If the petition > has more than 50 names on it, please forward to sarabande@brandeis.edu as > well. > > TEXT: > > The government of Afghanistan is waging a war upon women. > The situation is getting so bad that one person in an editorial of > the times compared the treatment of women there to the treatment > of jews in pre-holocaust Poland. Since the Taliban took power > in 1996, women have had to wear burqua and have been beaten > and stoned in public for not having the proper attire, even if this > means simply not having the mesh covering in front of their eyes. > One woman was beaten to DEATH by an angry mob of funda- > mentalists for accidentally exposing her arm while she was driving. > Another was stoned to death for trying to leave the country with a > man that was not a relative. > > Women are not allowed to work or even go out in public without a > male relative. Professional women such as professors, translators, > doctors, lawyers, artists andwriters have been forced from their jobs > and stuffed into their homes, so that depression is becoming so wide- > spread that it has reached emergency levels. > > There is no way in such an extreme islamic society to know the suicide > rate with certainty, but relief workers are estimating that the suicide > rate among women, who cannot find proper medication and treatment > for severe depression and would rather take their lives than live in > such conditions, has increased significantly. Homes where a woman is > present must have their windows painted so that she can never be > seen by outsiders. They must wear silent shoes so that they are never > heard. Women live in fear of their lives for the slightest misbehavior. > Because they cannot work, those without male relatives or husbands > are either starving to death or begging on the street, even if they hold > Ph.D.'s. There are almost no medical facilities available for women, > and relief workers, in protest, have mostly left the country, taking > medicine and psychologists and other things necessary to treat the > sky-rocketing level of depression among women. > > At one of the rare hospitals for women, a reporter found still, nearly > lifeless bodies lying motionless on top of beds, wrapped in their > burqua, unwilling to speak, eat or do anything, but are slowly > wasting away. > > Others have gone mad and were seen crouched in corners, perpetually > rocking or crying, most of them in fear. One doctor is considering, > when what little medication that is left finally runs out, leaving these > women in front of the president's residence as a form of peaceful > protest. It is at the point where the term 'human rights violations' > have become an understatement. Husbands have the power of life > and death over their women relatives, especially their wives, but > an angry mob has just as much right to stone or beat a woman, > often to death, for exposing an inch of flesh or offending them > in the slightest way. > > David Cornwell has told me that we in the United States should not > judge the Afghan people for such treatment because it is a 'cultural > thing', but this is not even true. Women enjoyed relative freedom, > to work, dress generally as they wanted, and drive and appear in > public alone until only 1996 --the rapidity of this transition is the > main reason for the depression and suicide; women who were > once educators or doctors or simply used to basic human freedoms > are now severely restricted and treated as sub-human in the name > of right-wing fundamentalist Islam. It is not their tradition or > 'culture', but is alien to them, and it is extreme even for those > cultures where fundamentalism is the rule. Besides, if we could > excuse everything on cultural grounds, then we should not be > appalled that the Carthaginians sacrificed their infant children, > that little girls are circumcised in parts of Africa, that blacks in > the deep south in the 1930's were lynched, prohibited from voting > and forced to submit to unjust jim crow laws. Everyone has a > right to a tolerable human existence, even if they are women in a > muslim country in a part of the world that Americans do not > understand. If we can threaten military force in Kosovo in the > name of human rights for the sake of ethnic Albanians, Americans > can certainly express peaceful outrage at the oppression, murder > and injustice commited against women by the Taliban. > > STATEMENT: > > In signing this, we agree that the current treatment of women in > Afghanistan is completely UNACCEPTABLE and deserves support > and action by the people of the United States and the U.S. Government > and that the current situation overseas will not be tolerated. Women's > Rights is not a small issue anywhere and it is UNACCEPTABLE for > women in 1998 to be treated as sub-human and so much as property. > Equality and human decency is a RIGHT not a freedom, whether one > lives in Afghanistan or the United States. > > 1) Leslie London, Cape Town, South Africa > 2) Tim Holtz, Boston, USA > 3) Jennifer Kasper, Boston, MA, USA > 4) Ali Noorani, Boston, MA > 5) Juli-Ann Carlos, Boston, MA, USA > 6) Elaine Alpert, MD, Boston, MA USA > 6) Ben Siegel, Boston MA, USA > 7) D. Paul Robinson, Columbia, MO, USA > 8) Holly Oswald, Columbia, MO, USA > 9) Angela Soiferman, Tampa, FL, USA > 10) Tracy Church, Chapel Hill, NC, USA > 11) Kelly Beatty, Cary, NC, USA > 12) Sara March Barber, Winston Salem, NC, USA > 13) Debbie Allison, Pfafftown, NC USA > 14) Lisa Clark, Winston-Salem, NC, USA > 15) Jen Algire, Winston-Salem, NC, USA > 16) Debra Benfield, Winston-Salem, NC,USA > 17) Karen Hills, Greensboro, NC, USA > 18) Miriam de Lyon, Newbury Park, CA, USA > 19) E. Hirsch, Westlake Village, CA USA > 20) Sheryl Witlin Bogad, Columbus, Ohio, USA > 21) Shirley Beagelman, Wayne, NJ USA > 22) Phyllis Shaitelman > 23) Amy Shaitelman > 24) Bob Shaitelman > 25) Joyce Edel, NYC, NY > 26) Mike Perlowin, Los Angeles CA > 27) Nancy Roth, Van Nuys, CA > 28) Melodie Tunick-Zide, Winnetka, CA > 29) Rachel Zide, Winnetka, CA > 30) Phyllis Levine, Thousand Oaks, CA > 31) Evelyn I. Challis, Santa Monica, CA > 32) Stanley Jeffers, Toronto, Canada > 33) Igor Kusyszyn, Toronto, Canada > 34) Florence Kusyszyn, Toronto, Canada > 35) Irwin Silverman, Toronto, Canada > 36) Alison Bury, Toronto, Canada > 37) James Brody, Spring City, Pennsylvania 38) Patrick Pageat, Apt, France From: IN%"bjarne.braastad@ihf.nlh.no" "Bjarne O. Braastad" 18-JAN-1999 06:41:31.53 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: ISAE'99 - abstract reminder Dear all, As most of you know, deadline for submission of abstracts for the ISAE congress in Lillehammer, Norway 17.-21. August 1999, is 20th January - in two days! We have received quite many abstracts already, but I take this opportunity to remind everyone about the deadline. In order to keep our time schedule we need to have all abstracts at the deadline. If you have problems with this, contact prof. Knut B=F8e, chairman of the Scientific Committee (knut.boe@itf.nlh.no).=20 Abstracts can be sent directly from our web site: http://org.nlh.no/isae99, click on the word Abstract, by e-mail (isae99@ihf.nlh.no), fax (+47 64 94 79 60) or air mail. You will get a notification of receipt of the abstract. When sending via the web site, you will get an automatic reply with an address to open for inspection of the abstract we received. We have had a couple of cases where the last part of the abstract was missing, so please check this.=20 This is also the appropriate time for suggestions of workshops or roundtable discussions on relevant topics, although suggestions made later during the winter are also welcome.=20 Looking forward to seeing you in Lillehammer! Bjarne O. Braastad ************************************************************** Dr. Bjarne O. Braastad, Assoc. Prof. of Ethology, Chairman of the Organising Committee 33rd International Congress of the ISAE (International Society for Applied Ethology), 17-21 August 1999, Lillehammer, Norway Address: Dept. of Animal Science, Agricultural University of Norway, P.O. Box 5025, N-1432 Aas, Norway e-mail: isae99@ihf.nlh.no or bjarne.braastad@ihf.nlh.no=20 fax: +47 64 94 79 60 phone: +47 64 94 79 80 Internet: http://org.nlh.no/isae99 From: IN%"Marc.Vandenheede@ulg.ac.be" 18-JAN-1999 10:53:46.75 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: supplies for lectures in ethology Dear all, Could you please help me to find supplies (books, references, videos, ...) in order to improve lectures in ethology. These lectures are given to veterinary students and can be divided into two parts: fundamental (history, principles, mechanisms, learning, conditioning, phylogeny and ontogeny, ...) and applied ethology (applications to the behaviour of domestic animals, welfare, human-animal relationships, ...). Thank you very much, Marc Marc Vandenheede Universit=E9 de Li=E8ge Facult=E9 de M=E9decine V=E9t=E9rinaire Service d'Hygi=E8ne et Bioclimatologie Bd de Colonster, B=E2t. B43 4000 Li=E8ge Belgium t=E9l.: 32/(0)4/366.41.48 fax.: 32/(0)4/366.41.22 email: Marc.Vandenheede@ulg.ac.be From: IN%"brooksd@uoguelph.ca" "Brooksie" 18-JAN-1999 11:20:16.31 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Swine Hello all, I am looking for any info that there is out there on the rearing of juvenile male pigs and how the conditions they are reared in may influence reproductive fitness and sexual behaviour. IE - How does their social environment pre-puberty affect them post-puberty? I know that toys, isolation, proximity to females etc will have an effect. Any thoughts or ideas for me? Thanks in advance, David Brooks __________________________________________________________________________ ()/\() ()/\() ( oo )---------\ D a v i d R. B r o o k s /--------( oo) (__)| Moo U | | Moo U (__) uu | | b r o o k s d @ u o g u e l p h . c a | |uu |\---(--)/| |\(--)---/| || !! || || !! || ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ Ever imagine a world with no hypothetical situations? __________________________________________________________________________ From: IN%"joseph.stookey@usask.ca" 18-JAN-1999 11:54:05.18 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology" CC: IN%"stookey@sask.usask.ca" Subj: Health Canada : Report of the CVMA Expert Panel on rBST (1999) (fwd) This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --Boundary_(ID_p3FRIXSsHXDlZD74bdvesQ) Content-id: Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE This message was sent to me by Jeff Rushen, who asked that I forward it to the applied-ethology network. I was unable to read a large part of the message so it was deleted, but you can read the entire story on the web if you go to:=20 http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/english/archives/rbst/animals/ Joe ------------------------------ Joseph M. Stookey Department of Herd Medicine and Theriogenology Western College of Veterinary Medicine University of Saskatchewan Saskatoon, Saskatchewan S7N 5B4 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:54:24 -0500 From: Jeff Rushen To: stookey@sask.usask.ca Subject: Health Canada : Report of the CVMA Expert Panel on rBST (1999) Hi Joe, attached is the web page address of the Health Canada report that lead them to reject rBST on animal welfare grounds (!). I was going to post it to applied-ethology but I have just dropped off the list, since I am off to Costa Rica for 2 weeks. Could you post it for me, please? I hope the rest of January is not too hard on you. At least I will be enjoying it. See you in June. Jeff http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/english/archives/rbst/animals/ -- ***************************************** Jeffrey Rushen, Ph. D. Dairy and Swine Research and Development Centre, Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, PO Box 90, 2000 Road 108E, Lennoxville, Quebec, Canada. J1M 1Z3 Ph: 1-(819)-5659174 ext 206 Fax: 1-(819)-5645507 Email: RUSHENJ@EM.AGR.CA ***************************************** Report of the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association Expert Panel on rBST=20 Prepared for Health Canada=20 November 1998=20 Table of Contents=20 Executive Summary At Health Canada=D5s request, the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association (CVMA) established an Expert Panel to review the issues of the efficacy and safety of recombinant bovine somatotropin (rBST).=CA The Panel was formed in March, 1998 and had expertise in epidemiology (Dr. Ian Dohoo - Chair), dairy health management (Dr. Luc DesC=99teaux, Dr. Ken Leslie and Dr. Wayne Shewfelt), dairy nutrition (Dr. Alan Fredeen), livestock management and animal welfare (Dr. Allan Preston) and clinical pharmacology/large animal internal medicine (Dr. Patricia Dowling).=CA The Panel operated completely independently from Health Canada and the CVMA. The Panel reviewed material provided by Health Canada from Monsanto=D5s submission to have rBST (sometribove) approved for use in Canada and carried out an extensive review of the published literature on the subject.=CA While studies based on Monsanto=D5s product a= nd other companies=D5 products were all considered, emphasis was placed on the former.=CA The review process focused on studies which measured clinically relevant outcomes.=CA The effects of rBST were assessed in the following main areas: milk yield, milk composition, nutritional implications, body=20 condition, udder health, reproduction, lameness, other health concerns, culling and animal welfare.=CA Within each area, key measures of effect (eg. 3.5% fat-corrected-milk for milk yield) were identified and all data from the literature review were extracted.=CA These data were summarized in one or more meta-analyses to generate overall estimates of effect.=CA Other related, but less commonly reported,=CA measures of effect were also considered in a more subjective manner.=CA If a detrimental effect was observed, the Panel discussed whether or not current dairy health=20 management practices were adequate to control or eliminate the effect.=CA Finally, the Panel discussed whether or not additional information was required in order to adequately assess the effects of rBST.=20 The Panel concluded that rBST does increase milk yield (3.5% FCM) by an average of 11.3% in primiparous cows and 15.6% in multiparous cows.=CA There was considerable variation in the response between studies but all but one study reported a positive effect.=CA There was evidence of a very small increase in the butterfat content (% fat) in the milk and in the protein content (% protein) in multiparous cows but the magnitude of the effects was too small to be of any consequence.=20 Treatment with rBST reduced the body condition of cows and although treated cows consistently increased their dry matter intake during the treatment period and on into the subsequent lactation, this did not appear adequate to offset the increased energy output associated with the higher yield.=CAConsequently, treated cows started their next lactation in lower body condition than untreated cows. Use of rBST increased the risk of clinical mastitis by approximately 25%.=CA It appeared that there was also a slight increase in the prevalence of subclinical intramammary infections at the end of the treatment period.=CA The Panel felt that while current dairy health management techniques could reduce this increased risk, they are not adequate to eliminate it.=CA When the expected number of extra cases of mastitis was computed on a =D2per litre of milk shipped=D3 basis, the increase was=20 approximately 10%. Given this relatively small increase and the current programs for ensuring that antibiotic residues are not present in milk sold for human consumption, the Panel felt that the risk of increased antibiotic residues in dairy products was very small.=20 There were a number of effects on reproductive performance that were associated with the use of rBST.=CA These included a substantial increase i= n the risk of non-pregnancy and a slight increase in days open in cows that do conceive.=CA There was also inconclusive evidence of=CA increased risks of= =20 cystic ovaries and twinning (multiple births).=CAThese adverse effects could be controlled by delaying use of the drug until cows were confirmed pregnant.=CA There was some limited evidence of an increased risk of retained placenta and abortion/fetal loss in treated cows but there were insufficient data to draw a firm conclusion about these potential effects.=CA=20 Treated cows experienced approximately a 50% increase in the risk of clinical lameness.=CA Many of the lameness cases involved fore and hind lim= b joints.=CA The Panel felt that current health management practices were not able to eliminate this increased risk.=20 Use of rBST reduced the risk of ketosis and some other metabolic diseases in the postpartum period=CA in the lactation following one in which rBST had been used.=CA This was probably due to a combination of the reduced body condition of cows at calving at the start of the next lactation and the higher levels of dry matter intake in the subsequent postpartum period.=20 Treated cows were at higher risk of being culled.=CAThis was particularly true in multiparous cows. Most of the data on culling did not include removal for reproductive reasons so the increased risk of=20 non-pregnancy would exacerbate this problem in commercial dairy herds.=20 The Panel felt that there were a number of legitimate animal welfare concerns associated with the use of rBST.=CA These included an=CA increased risk of clinical mastitis and lameness, and a reduction in the lifespan of treated cows.=CA=CA Without better data on the frequency and severity of injection site reactions, the Panel could not determine if these represented a significant animal welfare concern.=20 In general, the Panel felt that there were sufficient data available to make a reasonably informed assessment of the effects of rBST.=CA=CA Ther= e were four specific conditions (risk of cystic ovaries, twinning, retained placenta, and abortion/fetal loss) for which there appeared to be an effect associated with the use of the drug, but for which there was insufficient evidence to draw firm conclusions.=CA There was also insufficient information to determine how frequently injection site=20 reactions occur.=CA If the product is approved for sale, more information will be required about the nature of the increased risk of mastitis and lameness in order to manage those problems as effectively as possible.=20 --Boundary_(ID_p3FRIXSsHXDlZD74bdvesQ)-- From: IN%"dirk.PETZOLD@Biologie.Uni-Bielefeld.DE" 18-JAN-1999 12:30:58.74 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: differences in protein metabolism between juvenile males and females? 0100,0100,0100Dear Applied Ethology Menmbers, I would like to find out if anyone knows of systematic differences in protein metabolism between juvenile males and females.0100,0100,0100 I appreciate any comment, regardless if referring to wild or domestic animals or humans. Thanks a lot, Dirk Petzold Dirk Petzold University of Bielefeld Dept. of Animal Behaviour P.O.BOX 100131 33501 Bielefeld Fax (uni) ##49-521-106-2998 Fax (private) ##49-521-162075-1 Schwimmratten / water rats: http://www.uni-bielefeld.de/biologie/Studenten/ZooAG/schwimmr/sr_main.htm From: IN%"Catherine.Linton@cgc.enbridge.com" 18-JAN-1999 13:44:16.63 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: does anyone have any info on tailchasing in dogs??? Thanks Catherine From: IN%"tennessen@home.com" "Tarjei Tennessen" 18-JAN-1999 15:39:55.15 To: IN%"Applied-Ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology Network" CC: Subj: Canadian rejection of recombinant bovine Growth Hormone Apropos rBGH, the website address for the January 14th Health Canada statement on their decision to not allow rBGH into Canada is: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/english/archives/releases/99_03e.htm (the address Jeff gave takes you to a Nov 98 status report) There are also links to the animal and the human health committees, describing their membership and the tasks they were given. Of interest to subscribers to this network, animal welfare was considered under the heading animal safety. It will be fascinating to follow developments with this issue. Monsanto's product was rejected on the grounds of animal welfare (safety). Monsanto will challenge the ruling. The grounds for challenge will most likely be both the scientific validity of the statement that the safety of cows is at risk, AND Monsanto's contention that the Health Canada ruling is an infringement of the North American Free Trade Agreement. The question I would like to have answered is whether or not national animal welfare standards can be maintained despite deregulated globalized trade agreements. Any comments? Tarjei Tennessen tennessen@home.com From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 18-JAN-1999 17:50:06.11 To: IN%"hbe-request@a3.com" "HBES List Serve", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology", IN%"jbrody@mediaone.com" "Jim Brody" CC: Subj: Just some things to muse over Sharing! Jim Brody -------------Forwarded Message----------------- If a person with multiple personalities threatens suicide, is that considered a hostage situation? Just think how much deeper the ocean would be if sponges didn't=92t live there. If a cow laughed, would milk come out of her nose? Whatever happened to preparations A through G? If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from? I went for a walk last night and my kids asked me how long I=92d be gone = and I said, =93The whole time.=94 So what=92s the speed of dark? How come you don=92t ever hear about gruntled employees? And who has been= dis =96 ling them anyhow? Why don=92t they just make mouse-flavored cat food? If you=92re sending someone some Styrofoam, what do you pack it in? Why do they sterilize needles for lethal injections? Do they have reserved parking for non-handicapped people at the Special Olympics? Is it true that cannibals don=92t eat clowns because they taste funny? When a man talks dirty to a woman, it=92s sexual harassment. When a woman= talks dirty to a man, it=92s $3.95 per minute. If it=92s tourist season, why can=92t we shoot them? Last night I played a blank tape at full blast. The mime next door went nuts. So what=92s the speed of dark? After eating, do amphibians need to wait an hour before getting OUT of th= e water? I just got skylights in put in my place. The people who live above me are= furious. Rickie Moore, Ph.D. e-mail inpeace@euronet.nl internet www.euronet.nl/~inpeace From: IN%"cgaboury@total.net" 19-JAN-1999 08:00:01.58 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: facts or farce? Dear All, Since we are starting the week off with a little humour (in reference to J. Brody's post), I thought I would post this series of science "facts" I received. Some of them seem a little far-fetched...I was wondering if anyone could pick out the ones that they know are false...I was particularly wondering if the following were true: #15; #21; #22; #25? And if # 26 is true, what chemical is responsible? Thank-you! Chantal Gaboury I was also wondering who financed the studies that came to the conclusions #4 and #5? :-) 1) If you yelled for 8 years, 7 months and 6 days, you would have produced enough sound energy to heat one cup of coffee. 2) If you fart consistently for 6 years and 9 months, enough gas is produced to create the energy of an atomic bomb. 3) The human heart creates enough pressure when it pumps out to the body to squirt blood 30 feet. 4) Banging your head against a wall uses 150 calories an hour. 5) Humans, dolphins and Bonobo Chimpanzees are the only species that have sex for pleasure. 6) On average people fear spiders more than they do death. 7) The strongest muscle in the body is the TONGUE. 8) It's impossible to sneeze with your eyes open. 9) You can't kill yourself by holding your breath. 10) Americans on the average eat 18 acres of pizza every day. 11) Every time you lick a stamp, you're consuming 1/10 of a calorie. 12) Did you know that you are more likely to be killed by a champagne cork than by a poisonous spider? 13) Right-handed people live, on average, nine years longer than left-handed people do. 14) In ancient Egypt, Priests plucked EVERY hair from their bodies, including their eyebrows and eyelashes. 15) A pig's orgasm lasts for 30 minutes. 16) A crocodile cannot stick its tongue out. 17) The ant can lift 50 times its own weight, can pull 30 times its own weight and always falls over on its right side when intoxicated. 18) Polar bears are left handed. 19) The catfish has over 27,000 taste buds, that makes the catfish rank #1 for animal having the most taste buds. 20) The flea can jump 350 times its body length, that is like a human jumping the length of a football field. 21) A cockroach will live nine days without it's head, before it starves to death. 22) The male praying mantis cannot copulate while its head is attached to its body. The female initiates sex by ripping the males head off. 23) Some lions mate over 50 times a day. 24) Butterflies taste with their feet. 25) Elephants are the only animals that can't jump. (thankfully) 26) A cat's urine glows under a backlight. 27) An ostrich's eye is bigger than it's brain. ** After reading all these, all I can say is.... Damn Pigs!!!!!!** From: IN%"DMCWILLIAMS@APS.UoGuelph.CA" "Deborah McWilliams" 19-JAN-1999 10:22:25.70 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: differences in protein metabolism between juvenile male Hi Dirk!! > I would like to find out if anyone knows of > > systematic differences in protein metabolism between > juvenile males and females.0100,0100,0100 Assuming that you mean total dietary protein and not amino acids: 1) Research indicates that juvenile reptiles (male and female) need higher amounts of dietary protein than adults. "Adult" in this case means after they have stopped growing. For example, iguanas continue to grow until about age 8 but are sexually mature many years before that. There is a difference in some aquatic turtle species where some research indicates that males reach full growth a few years before females. This would affect need of (metabolism of) dietary protein between males and females depenent on age. 2) Reptiles in captivity (male and female) appear to develop pathology due to inappropriate protein sources and/or not enough. DebMcW dmcwilliams@aps.uoguelph.ca Deborah A. McWilliams Room 043, Animal and Poultry Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON, Canada, N1G 2X7 From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 20-JAN-1999 09:51:38.25 To: IN%"hbe-l@a3.com" "INTERNET:hbe-l@a3.com", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: Abstract of Living Links Conference This is a MIME-encapsulated message --Boundary_(ID_8h4shAGzqXfzgUvM/1DOEg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Colleagues, There are notes from the "Origins" symposia at the Living Links conferenc= e, Atlanta, 1/15 & 16/99. Also posted on http://forums.behavior.net/forums/evolutionary where my blatant editorializing is in italics. The attached text is in rich text format. Jim Brody =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D It was a Hoot! Jim Brody, jbrody@compuserve.com "Living Links" Symposium on "Origins: Evolutionary Perspectives on the Behavior of Humans and other Primates" Organized by Frans De Waal, Ph.D., Yerkes Center & Department of Psychology, Emory University, Atlanta 1/15-16/99 Web page: www.emory.edu/LIVING_LINKS/r/index.html The following are rough notes. I cannot pretend objectivity. = Fortunately, these speakers all write well about vital (in both senses of= "living" and "important") events. Buy their books and digest them throug= h your own adaptations. This party will continue; everyone of us is includ= ed because of our common stake on this earth for our children. My apologies= to you who already know all of this stuff! My personal comments from thi= s point are in italics. The symposium was a party, a celebration of the "Living Links" project at= Emory, the title a foil to our usual preoccupation with missing, dead links. (De Waal shares a talent for championing "out-lier" ideas -- see below.). = Beyond announcing Living Links, the symposium included a push for consilience, made through an array of speakers able to put physiological = or evolutionary foundations under traditional social sciences domains such a= s violence, reconciliation, language, and culture. Applying understandings= about our "nature" to modify our "nurture" was a second theme, so that we= don't consume this planet, that we accrue wisdom to protect us from us as= well as other species from us. There was a common structure for the talks. Present substantive thinkers= and scientists, each to introduce their passion as described in a recent book. The interested could then buy it and later survey the printed, larger array of thought and evidence on each topic. Day 1. E. O. Wilson, Keynote Address, "The Relation of Biology to the Humanities." 8 P.M. Audience of approximately 1500. Consilience: The Uni= ty of Knowledge. (Spoke in a church in the deep South, where people often the most hostile= about evolution. Only 1 question asked from the audience about morals & divinity!) Traditional bimodal sources for acquired human knowledge -- natural sciences and "everything else." Consilience possible between humanities,= social sciences, natural sciences -- links generated by epigenetic rules,= principles that connect genetics, neurophysiology, social sciences, ethology, and art. Epigenetic rules -- 1 billion (or more) years old, some as young as 100K.= = Describe functional relations between genetic programs and environmental influences. Epigenetic rules a critical idea for understanding the range= of outcomes that result from changing either genes or settings. Examples= from vision, incest avoidance, art preferences -- all cross cultural. Ev= en language scripts show -- like our paintings and icons - a 20% redundancy property. Can be demonstrated anytime, including during his talk to an audience of 1500 in a Southern church. Essential to apply our understanding of epigenetic rules in order to save= the planet from ourselves. He ended with an somber vision of our "wrecking the planet," the possibility of a final Mathusian Wall. He seemed optimistic about our ability to pull together in large numbers when facing a crisis. Wilson spoke for an hour and took questions and then stayed late, signing= autographs and sharing stories with us, his students. (Ed Wilson seems to= be the messenger, the Paul Revere riding through the town. However, we haven't assigned him to this task. He must both convince us that a crisi= s is possible and that it is actually occurring NOW. Buy, read, splice "Consilience" into your genes! It is a call, indeterminately timely or late but still a call, to action.) I earlier obsessed for weeks about the wisdom of designing a T-shirt to advertise "Clinical Sociobiology: Taking Charge of Our Genes" at this conference. The shirt itself was simple; Darwin, a black portrait in the= upper left and big red letters front and back. Even after Dr. Wilson's talk, it was a 51% decision -- a Prufrock dilemma -- but I marched obliquely to the altar rail and waited in line. Gosh! Wilson beamed whe= n he read the shirt and grew an immense smile. There's now a diagonal "Edward O. Wilson" across the shirt's chest. An ink trail from his hand and wrist validated 2.5 years of my nervous obsessing about the possibili= ty of such a field of study and application.) = Day 2: Audience about 750, number of empty seats. Disappointing in ligh= t of all these wonderful minds for free. When and where else can you find E= d Wilson, Wrangham, de Waal, Pinker, and Cheney on the same platform explaining their work and taking questions about it in vivo instead of walking on imported, rebroadcast air? "Origins of War" Richard Wrangham, Professor of Anthropology, Harvard University. Demonic Males: Apes and the Origins of Human Violence. Opened with slides of chimp violence towards each other. Also slides of chimp ribs, hands, and feet stacked in trucks to be served to restaurant patrons at quadruple the price of beef. Also, chimp eats humans -- one case of rampaging chimpanzee capturing human children and eating them (There is more justice -- see below in reference to AIDS.) Distinguished between "war parties (raids)" and "battles." War parties consist of roughly 5 individuals, move cautiously into enemy territory, and make a sneak attack on an isolated victim or infants. = Victims do not "volunteer" to join the fight. No immediate provocation; attacks premeditated. Tactic probably an outcome of transient male coalitions both to manage hierarchies, variable territory size, and accomplishing tasks cooperatively. Also perhaps due to high probability= gain (food and less reproductive competition) and low risk (surprise atta= ck by a small gang). Similar tactics common in human primitive tribes -- als= o, account for the mass of human fatalities inflicted by conspecifics. Wolves, hyenas (females lead!), ants also kill smaller groups and individual conspecifics but do not engage in battles of equal forces. So= me rhesus will line up in two large groups (Morgan Island data?) facing each= other and shout and threaten each other. Usually mediated by alpha femal= es sitting in the middle and grooming members of the opposite side. On the other hand, human "battles" are ritualized, announced well in advance, strongly hierarchic on each side, and correlated with massive self-deception on both sides. Despite our technology, we are often not very good at battles. We often underestimate assets of the enemy and magnify our own resources. Killing can be hierarchic within a group. One victim discovered face up. Had been eagle spread by 4 chimps while a= 5th ripped out his trachea and testicles, tossing them aside. There were= no wounds on the back. (Why the trachea and testicles? Connection betwee= n dominance and vocal and reproductive capabilities? Despite the symbolism= , when on nature's clock did the killers acquire that specific targeting ability? Is there a common ontogeny for our own stereotyped remarks about= "being speechless" and "cutting off someone's balls"?) Bonobos don't conduct raids, no border patrols, larger groups in continuo= us contact, more dominant females. Weaker correlation of testosterone level= s and dominance than is true for chimps. AIDS. Report is due in 3 wks about origin of AIDS in regard to chimpanze= es and its interaction with human transportation and sexual changes. "Origins of Peace." Frans De Waal. Yerkes Regional Primate Center, Emory University. Good Natured: = Origins of Right and Wrong in Humans and Other Animals. = FdW started with study of violence when he was a student but became more interested in reconciliations that occurred between aggressive events. An extended hand the first initiation of peace between male chimps, followed sometimes by a kiss and then mutual grooming. Chimp males will stare at each other for long intervals and fidget -- sometimes an alpha female grooms first one, then the other male and withdraws as the males then continue to groom each other. Aggression ritualizes; aggression cyclic -- alternates with sleep and grooming. All 3 behaviors occur more often with denser population. Aggression may n= ot be increased as a function of population density. FdW cited Amsterdam and= Japan as examples of high population density and low crime, implies that = we can have high human populations without violence. (However, Japanese culture highly homogeneous, strongly hierarchic and imposed by wide array= of police discretionary actions. I'm not sure why the crowded Flemish ge= t along -- perhaps from having a common task in defending their country fro= m the sea and their human neighbors. Perhaps also, like the Bonobo, from having a relatively static population in a small area that allows lots of= mutual inspection. Could be that female roles are different in the Benel= ux countries.) Shared tasks can lead to food sharing. Two Capuchin monkeys had to tug o= n rope in order for one of them to get food. Food sharing and grooming mor= e likely under these conditions. (Old memory: Sisters of Mercy at Seton Hill, a training school for nuns near Pittsburgh -- rumored to settle feu= ds between students by putting the combatants in a small cell with each othe= r, a 25 watt bulb, and a 3000 piece puzzle. No one allowed out until the puzzle was done!) Young rhesus (nasty young guys ordinarily) reared with older bonobos -- outcome was more conciliatory behaviors in those same rhesus when older. Peace sometimes a matter of self-defense in shifting hierarchies. Two males will form an alliance to beat a tougher, 3rd one. The winning pair= next starts to bicker about sharing women. The Number 3 snorts, paces, a= nd flexes; Numbers 1 and 2 quickly become buddies again! Commentator about FdW's talk was a law professor who discussed "Alternati= ve Dispute Resolution" wherein opposing parties must go through mediation before a dispute is put on the court schedule. Also taught in K-12 and l= aw schools. Shares FdW ideas on building a positive relationship through interdependence for common tasks. (de Waal notable for turning global concepts -- reconciliation, mediation= , etc. -- into operational definitions and manipulating tasks and obtaining= shifts in behavior frequencies. Represents a substantial break through = in our approaches to questions of cooperation and morality). Dorothy Cheney, Professor of Biology, University of Pennsylvania. "Origi= ns of Communication" Author of How Monkeys See the World: Inside the Mind o= f Another Species. General issues Very limited information about natural communication patterns of other species. Monkeys (and apes?) don't invent new calls There is no apparent use of syntax -- confounded into a common utterance Stereotyped, no inventions with niche or learning May have "concepts" but no labels? Vervet alarms for eagle, snake, leopard -- elicit distinctive responses even when played by tape Male and female vervets make different calls for each of these 3 events b= ut the same, distinctive responses occur by targets Infant vervets call "eagle" about any object in the air and gain precisio= n with age Cross-fostered rearing by another species does not change the nature of t= he calls for predators but does seem to affect those involved with kin. Theory of Mind -- human children have it but not other species? Our kids= surmise what each other is thinking and may recycle their rehearsal to include several levels. "If I do this, she will think that." (Chimps lie= to avoid aggression or to hide food from other chimps. Basis for Theory = of Mind?) "Origins of Human Language" Steven Pinker, Director, Center for Cognitive= Neuroscience, MIT. "How the Mind Works," "The Language Instinct." Language evolved, meets G. Williams standards for "adaptation." Mental dictionary -- reflects "complex design" -- 60K-120K words in HS graduate. Grammar ... infinite se of finite set of tools. Discrete combinatorial system. Symbols not blended. Produces 100 million trillion sentences Grammar components Syntax with order, membership grouping (constituency), predicate/argument= structure, transformation rules Inflected forms of words Phonology rules for making new combination of sounds Interface Structure of larynx very special Comprehend 10-40 phonemes per sec Inference from other CNS mechanisms. "I'm leaving you" elicits "Who is he?" Natural history of language Universal complexity; universal design -- grammar, syntax, morphology Most children acquire it rapidly. Language created rapidly in a single generation -- rules and grammar transform signs and pidgin into Creole. Genetic specificity -- outcome of a set of genes. Components missing in particular language syndromes. High IQ but poor expressive language. Som= e language disorders seen in family patterns. Some mentally retarded adult= s have good expressive language but impaired adaptive behaviors. Therefore= , language partially independent of other behavior systems. Language unique asset -- can duplicate with resource loss. One good idea= multiplied indefinitely. Technical ability, social cooperation, and language perhaps coevolved. Duane Rumbaugh commented next (surprise appearance) -- apes show language= precursors, learn to understand human speech "Go to the microwave and get= out the tomato that is in there." Bonobo has high verbal repertory, must have evolved. Purposes obscure. (Pinker remarked that language is unique because it can be duplicated wit= h no loss of information -- e.g., popular records, computer software. Robe= rt Frank also referred to our unique opportunity to make lots of money by selling information. There's a useful interface between these ideas and traditional notions of K- and r-selection. Our culture approaches K conditions for material resources. However, personal savings combined wi= th communications technology has instated r-selection conditions but with people as a resource and commodity, not as a consuming organism. = Telephone, auto, information and entertainment sales -- all work by "use = up the customer and move on, there will always be more of them." Personal resources flow to fewer and fewer people and lead to more spectacular differences in personal earnings. The economic model is similar to that = of Atlanta seen at night from the air. There is an extended circle of 1 or = 2 story dwellings and a very tiny center of skyscrapers. The center may be= stable so long as the hub sends assets inward. Currently displays flow o= f individuals and families through the center as the economic hierarchy churns; however, could eventually shift to oppressive dynasties that protect vested interests with marginal income -- taxes, fees -- on large audiences or lead to generalized collapse with depleted resources.) "Origins of Economics" Robert Frank, Cornell University. Elks grow large horns that are good for the individual elk but bad for th= e species? Premise a rephrasing of Adam Smith's "invisible hand" analogy that produces good outcomes (culture, charity) from selfish motives. = Likewise, capitalism might work through competition but may still have "good" outcomes for the group. RF suggests that individual behavior, originally developed under simpler conditions, can be bad for both the individual and for our species. Has particular relevance to patterns of excessive use of resources in order to advertise dominance. Unlike former times, people now add information to a product, massive numbers of copies yield massive income for little personal effort or cost= . (Is stock market gain largely an unacknowledged element of inflation?) = Equated social rank with both dominance and with conspicuous consumption = -- Porsches and Ferraris, watches for $2.7 million, gas grills for $13K. However, economy not growing -- top 1% of people in US accounted for 80% = of earnings growth. Most people working 2nd job, more hours, less work spac= e, dirty water, lousy beef regulation, poor air quality, bad environmental maintenance, more pay for school teachers (parents want their children trained, teachers the obvious vehicle). RF noted that happiness a stable, possibly genetic trait -- tends to be consistent through the year? Average contentment relatively constant in= USA & Japan despite income increases. Happiness correlated with income level (Another confounded variable). Hap= py people fight less, are more social, need fewer psychiatrists (!), and commit suicide less often. Because people "want" for dominance and mating reasons, make them pay for= it. Concluded that taxing consumption -- take earnings, subtract savings,= and tax the remainder -- would be a useful correction to our spending for= reasons of social dominance. = (Offered a series of anecdotes about US spending habits. Self selected data exclusively; his evidential chain would not have passed scrutiny by = a 2nd term psychology undergraduate. Certainly did NOT discuss the announc= ed topic, "Origins of Economics. Presentation coincided with release of hi= s latest book. I would have been less annoyed if he acknowledged the correlational nature of his data and if he were not making national polic= y recommendations on the basis of that data. Consequences are well known influence on most behaviors. However, proble= ms exist for applying these results to groups of people: Rigging consequences for clever people who acquire resources means those same clever people will evade the consequences by hiding them or by movin= g on. Our lab data are most coherent for single organisms; individuals in the American culture will exhibit different performance shifts in respons= e to their personal consequences. Ignores the possibility that our nation is "fissioning," dividing into multiple competing groups with no common heritage, current interests, or future goals. Discussed sexual selection -- that is, the dominance of other males -- as= a driving force for us to buy outlandish toys. Ignored the role of female preferences in male displays. Female preferences appear to drive an arra= y of expensive, sometimes painful male displays. Peacock feathers? Tongue rings? Ignored findings from Valerius Geist(?) that elk display a range of physical and behavior traits in response to climate variations. The same= species may be mislabeled as several different species. While consequences matter, a mix of positive and aversive outcomes for th= e same behavior usually result in adaptation to punishment and continued appetitive behavior from rats and from rhesus. I missed, and so did everyone else, the similarity of RF's plan to a "battle" strategy. Wrangham told us the reasons that raids are effective= , battles are not. There already are tremendous incentives for Americans to reduce their rat= e of consumption; unfortunately, the immediate costs of self control are = immediate, personal, and relevant whereas the gains are delayed and less certain and less personal. We perhaps need to pull the future into the present so that people sample the options that they now elect without suc= h awareness. Given the high representation of psychological adaptations for both "psychology" and for "teaching" in the general population of humans, both= teaching and clinical psychology should be deregulated, particularly sinc= e both are done by a very wide array of people who do not come under existi= ng rules that serve to punish the cooperative and reward the evaders. Neith= er profession would be improved by higher pay. Economists and economics theories are integral to evolutionary understanding. Matt Ridley, Steven Frank, Geoff Miller, Jeff Goldberg --= all potentially fine speakers; perhaps they can attend next time.) "Origins of Culture" William McGrew, Professor of Zoology, Miami Universi= ty of Ohio. "Chimpanzee Material Culture: Implications for Human Evolution."= Reviewed past definitions of culture. Orcas show quite variable behavior depending on the group that you study Chimps build nests (High in trees, isolated, perhaps to avoid being kille= d by other chimps!) and use tools Chimp behavior varies as a function of the availability of colobus monkey= s as food. Animal "culture" a problem. Labeled as "culture," proto-culture, sub-culture, pre-culture, quasi-culture. Culture reflects actions, knowledge, language, and meanings (taboos) Consensus view of culture Learned, not inherited Social, not individual Repetitive across people Collective Chimp cultures vary in the use of probes for ants A leaf can be a sponge, a napkin, a grooming tool, a termite fishing tool= , or a courtship signal. Any one task can be accomplished with bark, stems, leafs, twigs, or vines= -- depending on the particular group of chimps. Understanding culture will require resources from psychology, anthropolog= y, and biology. Comments from Carol Worthman, Dept. of Biology, Emory University. There is a dual inheritance of culture and genes Traits unfold in ontogeny Biology designed for a range of settings Old thinking that variable traits strictly a function of settings, consta= nt traits reflect genes. (Environment becomes an extended or "emergent" egg!= ) Both culture and biology are means to create variation. from JB Great application of epigenetic understanding! Culture has the same roles as our individual neuropsychological "executiv= e functions" and our genes. All three retain memories of past conditions a= nd solutions for those conditions. Whether genes, individual intellect, or= culture, each of the three represents a "sense of the past" that combines= with information about our present to generate options for our "sense of the future." Same functions described by Jacob Bronowski and elaborated = 20 years later by Russell Barkley -- Past President of the Division on Neuropsychology, American Psychological Assn. -- into a description of ou= r orbital capacities for building memories, regulating affective displays, sharing plans, mentally rearranging events, and deriving novel solutions.= Culture, genes, our orbital functions, memory ... all products of our pas= t, brought into our present to contemplate and manage our future. The combination increases adaptive variability -- just as is accomplished by alliances and tools -- for changes in our niche. There is no gain from being comfortable at 72 degrees if we "forget" our options for handling a= rare week at -30 degrees. Probably another one of those "epigenetic things." Culture might be described as information transmitted (without using sexu= al reproduction!) by one conspecific to another as a necessary condition for= a particular behavior to appear. Observational information (direct imitation, oral or written direction) essential. May be linked to our capacity to form new neurons in the hippocampus that mediate retention of= novel behavior sequences -- twigging for termites or learning "Windows"= -- so they can be repeated indefinitely. Supplements and contrasts with Gazzaniga's model of learning as a "saving" of preexisting systems such a= s phonetic sounds. One question from audience about self-organizing systems. Not received kindly! 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IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: light therapy for animals? Hello. My name is Amanda Shaad and I am new to the list. I was wondering if any studies have been done on the effect of light therapy on animals - especially domestic cats. Lately I have noticed my cats spending time under my grow lights which I use for my seedlings. I ask because I have only heard of lions "basking" in the sun. From: IN%"AShaad@aol.com" 20-JAN-1999 22:08:13.61 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: light therapy for animals I will try to paste this to the entire list- but I am not sure I will succeed. I have monitored the temp from the lights and without the lights and the temp is the same. The humidity is much greater under the lights - because I water more frequently than in the rest of the house. My cats do not destroy the seedlings ( unless it is catnip :) even though they have ready access to the seedlings and several other plants in my house - I have researched and tried not to grow anything toxic to them except a datura plant which they have always ignored. The light is only difference I have deduced - am I overlooking a variable? I am more curious now than ever. I am eager for any input you may have. Amanda From: IN%"bjarne.braastad@ihf.nlh.no" "Bjarne O. Braastad" 21-JAN-1999 04:39:08.62 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: ISAE'99: abstract confirmation will be sent Dear all submitters of abstract for the ISAE'99, We have received quite a large number of abstracts and are pleased that authors seem to keep the deadline. Some wonder why they have not yet received a confirmation that we have received your abstract. We are working on this. Unfortunately I work a lot on teaching this week, so please be patient. We will not confirm receipt of e-mail or web submissions before we have checked that there is no conversion problems or other problems with the abstracts. I will send a new message when everybody has got a confirmation of receipt. Then, if you have not received a response, you may resubmit your abstract. The automatic notification of receipt is only for the web submission, not e-mail submission of abstracts. Some has asked for a few days delay in submission and received a positive response. If you haven't asked us and intend to submit an abstract, please tell us about it immediately. Your sincerely, Bjarne O. Braastad ************************************************************** Dr. Bjarne O. Braastad, Assoc. Prof. of Ethology, Chairman of the Organising Committee 33rd International Congress of the ISAE (International Society for Applied Ethology), 17-21 August 1999, Lillehammer, Norway Address: Dept. of Animal Science, Agricultural University of Norway, P.O. Box 5025, N-1432 Aas, Norway e-mail: isae99@ihf.nlh.no or bjarne.braastad@ihf.nlh.no fax: +47 64 94 79 60 phone: +47 64 94 79 80 Internet: http://org.nlh.no/isae99 From: IN%"chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" 21-JAN-1999 05:19:19.40 To: IN%"AShaad@aol.com" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: re: light therapy for animals Dear Amanda, How did you measure the temperature? This has important implications for whether you were measuring what the cats were likely to be experiencing or not. Regards, Chris Sherwin > I have monitored the temp from the lights and without the lights and the temp > is the same. The humidity is much greater under the lights - because I water > more frequently than in the rest of the house. My cats do not destroy the > seedlings ( unless it is catnip :) even though they have ready access to the > seedlings and several other plants in my house - I have researched and tried > not to grow anything toxic to them except a datura plant which they have > always ignored. The light is only difference I have deduced - am I > overlooking a variable? I am more curious now than ever. I am eager for any > input you may have. Amanda > From: IN%"Henrik.B.Simonsen@ihh.kvl.dk" "Henrik B Simonsen" 21-JAN-1999 08:55:05.32 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Branding of foals This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --Boundary_(ID_ldj4xb/YH1mhRw7cx9Ha+Q) Content-type: text/plain Content-disposition: inline Dear All. Please find enclosed the list of literature references which I so far have collected by my enquiry on the topic welfare in relation to hot iron brandding in foals. I am still working on the topic and not yet ready to draw any firm conclusions. Thanks for your help and best wishes from Henrik --Boundary_(ID_ldj4xb/YH1mhRw7cx9Ha+Q) Content-type: application/WordPerfect5.1 Content-description: WordPerfect 5.1 Content-disposition: attachment; filename="BRAND21.199" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 /1dQQ1sDAAABCgABAAAAAPv/BQAyABUDAAAHAA4AAABCAAAADwBWAAAAUAAAAAwAWgAAAKYAAAAD ABUCAAAAAQAAQ291cmllciAxMGNwaQDMFf//iQA/AHgAeAB4ACwBAQAAAABaFMIBeAD+FTYQWAcA AAAEEUDJAJM4xwE7AFgCQP7+/v7+/v7//v////////7///////////////////////7//0hQIERl c2tKZXQgNTIwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABIUERFUzUyMC5QUlMA2wF4ABQeDBeMCgAA AAQRQMkAh88BAAEAMAAoAiwBLAEwSR85WFgCQNAL9wCQM9gnAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAJAz2CcBCFN0YW5kYXJkAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANA2wiYBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAA0DbCJgEAU3RhbmRhcmQATAP//wAAAwBKZXQgNTIwAA3///8AACCTpAMaAL4D6wUAACrWsASw BLAEsAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD3AAvQ0xEIAFVT REsIABHT0wAMAC4ALAAsAC4ADAAA09ABDACwBLAEnQSdBAwAAdDQBQwAsASwBJ0EnQQMAAXQ0ATQ AAAAWAKwBAgHYAm4CxAOaBDAEhgVcBfIGSAceB7QICgjgCXYJzAqiCzgLjgxkDPoNUA4mDrwPEg/ oEH/////////////////////////////AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACdBGIHJwrsDLEPdhI7 FQAYxRqKHU8g//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// /////////////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAsASdBNAABNDQBgYAAQAGAAbQ+/8FADIAAAAA AAkAAgAAAEcDAAAGABAAAABJAwAACAACAAAAWQMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAq1ggjfAB4AAAAAQAAAAAA AAAAAEJyYW5kaW5nIG9mIGZvYWxzCgpMaXRlcmF0dXJlCgpKYW51YXJpIDE5OTkKCkhlbnJpayBC LiBTaW1vbnNlbgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCgoKQmVjaHRob2xkLCBJ LiAxOTk0LiBCZXNjaGx1c3MgZGVzIEFHIEtlaGwgenVyDcIAxQJiB2IHDwDCVGllcnNjaHV0endp ZHJpZ2tlaXQgZGVzIE51bW1lcmJyYW5kZXMgYmVpIFBmZXJkZW4uIERlcg1wcmFrdGlzY2hlIFRp ZXJhcnp0LCA3LCA2MjCpNjIyLsYlImIHxgoKQmVjaHRob2xkLCBJLiAxOTk0LiBHZXJpY2h0c2Jl c2NobHVzcyBkYXMgSGVpc3NicmVubmVuIHZvbiCQwgDFAmIHYgcPAMJQZmVyZGVuIGFscyBWZXJz dG9zcyBnZWdlbiBkYXMgVGllcnNjaHV0emdlc2V0ei4NVGllcsAfAcByenRsLiBVbXNjaGF1IDQ5 LCAyNjWpMjY5LsYlImIHxgoKS29obHMsIFMuIDE5OTQuIFVudGVyenVjaHVuZ2VuIHp1ciBPYmpl a3RpdmllcnVuZyBkZXMNwgDFAmIHYgcPAMJTY2htZXJ6cmVpemVzIGJlaW0gSGVpc3NicmFuZCB2 b24gUGZlcmRlbiB1bnRlcg1CZXJydWVja3NpY2h0aWd1bmcgZXRob2xvZ2lzY2hlciB1bmQga2xp bmlzY2hlciBNZXJrbWFsZS4NVmV0ZXJpbmFlciBQaEQgdGhlc2lzLiBVbml2ZXJzaXRldCBNwEcB wG5jaGVuLsYlImIHxgoKTGViZWx0LCBEIGV0IGFsLiAxOTk3LiBCcmFuZGluZyBpbiBmb2Fsczog RWZmZWN0cyBvbiBiZXRhqsIAxQJiB2IHDwDCZW5kb3JwaGluLCBjb3J0aXNvbCBhbmQgaGVhcnQg cmF0ZS4gUHJvYy4gMzEgSW50Lg1Db25ncmVzcyBvZiB0aGUgSVNBRS4gMTc3qTE3OC7GJSJiB8YK CkxvZWZmbGVyLCBLLiAxOTk0LiBadXIgS2VubnplaWNobnVuZyB2b24gUGZlcmRlbiBkdXJjaCBC cmVubmVuLg3CAMUCYgdiBw8AwlBmZXJkZWhlaWxrdW5kZSAxMCwgMTQxqTE0OC7GJSJiB8YKCk1l eWVyLCBILiAxOTk3LiBTY2htZXJ6LCBIZWlzc2JyYW5kIHVuZCBUcmFuc3BvbmRlci4NwgDFAmIH YgcPAMJXaXNzZW5zY2hhZnRsaWNoZSBQdWJsaWthdGlvbmVuLCBCYW5kIDE1LiAxOTIgcHAuDURl dXRzY2hlIFJlaXRlcmxpY2hlIFZlcmVpbmlndW5nOiBXaXNzZW5zY2hhZnRsaWNoZQ1QdWJsaWth dGlvbmVuLsYlImIHxgoKUG9sbG1hbm4sIFUuIDE5OTguIERpc2NvbWZvcnQgY2F1c2VkIHRvIGZv YWxzIGJ5IHRyYW5zcG9uZGVyIJDCAMUCYgdiBw8AwnRhZ2dpbmcgY29tcGFyZWQgd2l0aCBoZWF0 IGJyYW5kaW5nLiBJbjogS1RCTCAoZWQpOg1Ba3R1ZWxsZSBBcmJlaXRlbiB6dXIgQXJ0Z2VtYWVz c2VuIFRpZXJoYWx0dW5nIDE5OTcuDUxhbmR3aXJ0c2NoYWZ0c3ZlcmxhZyBNdWVuc3RlciAoRCku xiUiYgfGCgpQb2xsbWFubiwgVS4gMTk5OC4gS2VubnplaWNobnVuZyB2b24gRm9obGVuIG1pdCBU cmFuc3BvbmRlci4gqZDCAMUCYgdiBw8AwmVpbmUgQWx0ZXJuYXRpdmUgenVtIEhlaXNzYnJhbmQg PyBBdXMgZGVyIFNpY2h0IGRlcw1UaWVyc2NodXR6ZXMuIFRpZXLAHwHAZXp0bC4gVW1zY2hhdSA1 MywgMTgzqTE4Ni7GJSJiB8YKCgoK --Boundary_(ID_ldj4xb/YH1mhRw7cx9Ha+Q)-- From: IN%"pfcarell@gw.dec.state.ny.us" "Paul Carella" 21-JAN-1999 11:12:21.39 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Petition re the Treatment of Women in Afghanistan. (fwd) -Reply The following was received by a friend who attempted to forward the petition to the sender. Paul ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please read this message carefully, especially the next two sentences. Do not reply to this email. Do not forward this email to anyone else. Anyone who needs a copy, already has one. Do not make things worse. Do not "help" by forwarding this message to everyone who has corresponded with you on this subject. Due to a flood of hundreds of thousands of messages in response to an unauthorized chain letter, all mail to sarabande@brandeis.edu is being deleted unread. It will never be a valid email address again. If you have a personal message for the previous owner of that address, you will need to find some other means to communicate. The text of the chain letter was originally Copyright 1997 Feminist Majority Foundation. sarabande@brandeis.edu was not an organization, but a person who was totally unprepared for the inevitable consequences of telling thousands of people to tell fifty of their friends to tell fifty of their friends to send her email. It is our sincere hope that the hundreds of thousands of people who continue to attempt to reply will find a more productive outlet for their concerns. There are several excellent organizations and individuals doing real work on the issues raised. Some of them were mentioned in sarabande's letter. None of them authorized her actions. We suggest that you contact them through non-virtual channels to help. They all have web sites with information and contact points. Unlike sarabande, they can channel your energy in useful directions. Do not let this incident discourage you. Please do not forward unverified chain letters, no matter how compelling they might seem. Propagating chain letters is specifically prohibited by the terms of service of most Internet service providers; you could lose your account. Please also read: http://athos.rutgers.edu/~watrous/pbs-funding-chain-letter-petition.html http://www.wish.org/craig.htm http://www.nbi.dk/~dickow/stop-chain-letter.txt http://www.cancer.org/chain.html http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/library/weekly/aa021198.htm http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-run-adverts-00.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-run-spew-07.txt http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACChainLetters.html Any replies to this message will be deleted unread. The issue is closed. Please read this message carefully, especially the next two sentences. Do not reply to this email. Do not forward this email to anyone else. Anyone who needs a copy, already has one. Do not make things worse. Do not "help" by forwarding this message to everyone who has corresponded with you on this subject. From: IN%"jwillard@turbonet.com" "Janice Willard" 21-JAN-1999 11:52:36.51 To: IN%"AShaad@aol.com" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: light therapy for animals Interesting set of observations. If your hypothesis is that the cats are preferentially seeking out the natural spectrum light, then try an experiment. Change the light bulbs over the plants to non-natural spectrum light (your plants can tolerate this for a short time). Put the natural spectrum light in another location. Don't change anything else, then see if the cats change the amount of time spent in the garden area. This will casually differentiate between light spectrum and location. Perhaps they just like gardens; I know I do :-) . Janice At 10:49 PM 1/20/99 -0500, you wrote: >I will try to paste this to the entire list- but I am not sure I will succeed. > >I have monitored the temp from the lights and without the lights and the temp >is the same. The humidity is much greater under the lights - because I water >more frequently than in the rest of the house. My cats do not destroy the >seedlings ( unless it is catnip :) even though they have ready access to the >seedlings and several other plants in my house - I have researched and tried >not to grow anything toxic to them except a datura plant which they have >always ignored. The light is only difference I have deduced - am I >overlooking a variable? I am more curious now than ever. I am eager for any >input you may have. Amanda > From: IN%"DMCWILLIAMS@APS.UoGuelph.CA" "Deborah McWilliams" 21-JAN-1999 12:15:29.63 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: grow lights Hello Amanda! Check to see the wavelengths provided in your grow light. Many grow lights do not replicate natural lighting conditions. You might be able to get this info from the internet via manufacturer advertising. DebMcW > Date sent: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:31:15 -0500 (EST) > From: AShaad@aol.com > Subject: light therapy for animals? > To: Applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca > Hello. My name is Amanda Shaad and I am new to the list. I was wondering if > any studies have been done on the effect of light therapy on animals - > especially domestic cats. Lately I have noticed my cats spending time under > my grow lights which I use for my seedlings. I ask because I have only heard > of lions "basking" in the sun. > dmcwilliams@aps.uoguelph.ca Deborah A. McWilliams Room 043, Animal and Poultry Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON, Canada, N1G 2X7 --NAA08823.916942289/wright.aps.uoguelph.ca-- dmcwilliams@aps.uoguelph.ca Deborah A. McWilliams Room 043, Animal and Poultry Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON, Canada, N1G 2X7 From: IN%"cgaboury@total.net" 21-JAN-1999 12:17:09.03 To: IN%"jwillard@turbonet.com" "Janice Willard" CC: IN%"AShaad@aol.com", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: light therapy for animals On a day where the sun is coming in my home, both of my cats and my dog will seek out a small patch of light on the floor and lay in it. It seems as though it would be the light they are seeking and not the heat as they don't lay near the radiators, and they lay in the sun in sweltering-hot days. Is it possible they are using the energy for vitamin D production, as humans do...but if so, how does it get through all that fur?? Chantal Janice Willard wrote: > > Interesting set of observations. If your hypothesis is that the cats are > preferentially seeking out the natural spectrum light, then try an > experiment. Change the light bulbs over the plants to non-natural spectrum > light (your plants can tolerate this for a short time). Put the natural > spectrum light in another location. Don't change anything else, then see > if the cats change the amount of time spent in the garden area. This will > casually differentiate between light spectrum and location. Perhaps they > just like gardens; I know I do :-) . > > Janice > > At 10:49 PM 1/20/99 -0500, you wrote: > >I will try to paste this to the entire list- but I am not sure I will > succeed. > > > >I have monitored the temp from the lights and without the lights and the temp > >is the same. The humidity is much greater under the lights - because I water > >more frequently than in the rest of the house. My cats do not destroy the > >seedlings ( unless it is catnip :) even though they have ready access to the > >seedlings and several other plants in my house - I have researched and tried > >not to grow anything toxic to them except a datura plant which they have > >always ignored. The light is only difference I have deduced - am I > >overlooking a variable? I am more curious now than ever. I am eager for any > >input you may have. Amanda From: IN%"DMCWILLIAMS@APS.UoGuelph.CA" "Deborah McWilliams" 21-JAN-1999 14:23:34.66 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: ethics question In fulfillment of a promise I made: An academic is approached for information or a service by someone who will use that information or service commercially. What ethical conduct/responsibilities are involved and on whose part? DebMcW dmcwilliams@aps.uoguelph.ca Deborah A. McWilliams Room 043, Animal and Poultry Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON, Canada, N1G 2X7 From: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" 21-JAN-1999 14:33:04.82 To: IN%"pfcarell@gw.dec.state.ny.us" "Paul Carella", IN%"jbrody@compuserve.com" "Jim Brody" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: Social conscience spam Dear Paul: What was it about a message that started "do not forward this email to anyone else" that made you want to forward it to another 600 or so people? Dear Jim: Spam comes in all flavours these days. Aside from porn spam, virus alert spam and "get yourself a special account so you can generate spam" spam. There now seems to be an irritating kind of social conscience spam. Why anyone would put their name to an email petition without some other verification of the emotively presented cause, or what good they think it would do, is a mystery to me. Don't misunderstand me. If women are getting such a bad deal in Afghanistan, it's a serious issue of human rights. On the other hand, if the info presented is hyped up to further somebody's political agenda (as I suspect) I'd want to know who they are and what axe they have to grind before I just bought it all in one politically correct reflex. You might equally well argue that it is unacceptable for Westerners to demand that other cultures abandon their own traditional values and accept ours. I think a lot of subscribers to this list (including me) are interested in animal welfare. Many are active researchers in this field and proponents of improving standards of animal use. That doesn't mean that they would accept, uncritically, all of the propaganda spewed out by some animal rights organizations. Even on subjects where they perfectly well realize that there definitely are significant welfare problems to be addressed. So why would they treat unsubstantiated rantings on other humanitarian issues any differently? I'd be happier if people didn't use this list as an easy way to spam hundreds of people with a few keystrokes. Especially with stuff utterly irrelevant to applied ethology. Jon ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Watts (___) ) ) University of Saskatchewan |o o|___________/ ( Dept of Herd Medicine O \#/ | ) and Theriogenology |bser| | Statistical | ( Western College of Vet. Med. |vati| | analysis | ) 52 Campus Drive |ons.| \___________/| *& Saskatoon ------ || || %$#@ S7N 1B4 / \ || || ^*@*~ Canada &^%%#$@ wattsjon@duke.usask.ca "The Holy Cow" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IN%"hanebaum@cadvision.com" "Udo Hanebaum" 21-JAN-1999 15:02:06.42 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: light therapy for animals Hello all I am new on this list and find this topic quite interesting. Does anyone know what studys on light and mamalian behavior, in particular depression or "mood", have been done? Does anyone know of disruptive behavior in dogs due to insufficient light? On TV one hears almost every winter about studys relating to the treatment of seasonal depression and sunlight in humans. Are similar effects known in dogs or other other animals? I know that some other interesting studys where done in the early 80's at the university of manitoba while I was there. In those experiments the goal was to change the reproductive cycle in sheep. I do not know however what the results where. My golden retriever seems to seek out the light in much the same way as discribed by Chantel. It seems to me that if light can influence human behavior and mood that it may influence animal behavor in some way as well. Udo Hanebaum Calgary, AB hanebaum@cadvision.com From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 21-JAN-1999 15:26:49.29 To: IN%"hbe-l@a3.com" "INTERNET:hbe-l@a3.com", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology", IN%"biaeagle@jps.net" "James or Susannah Bianchi", IN%"jbrody@mediaone.com" "Jim Brody" CC: Subj: Meeting EO Wilson & Clinical Sociobiology A bit of August email can have large consequences in my fractal life. = Darren Long sent me (and the rest of the Human Behavior and Evolution Society) an invitation to hear Edward Osborn Wilson speak on January 15, 1999 at a church on the campus of Emory University in Atlanta. I booked = a flight in November and arranged to tour the nearby Yerkes Field Station where research is done on social behavior in chimpanzees and in rhesus. = There was to be a symposium on the 16th, one that featured DeWaal, Pinker= , Wrangham, Cheney, Bob Frank, and William McGrew giving their "Origins" talks about language, culture, war, and peace. (Notes posted separately o= n http://forums.behavior.net/forums/evolutionary). It looked like a very b= ig weekend, the more so because Nando Pelusi, a psychologist from New York a= nd Lorraine Rice, also from New York and a collaborator on the Paleopsych effort, agreed to attend. I was a little fightened, having conceived of a"Clinical Sociobiology" i= n October 1996 but now worried some 2 years later about meeting Wilson. = Would he be indignant? Would he see me as an opportunist? I obsessed fo= r weeks about the wisdom of designing a T-shirt to advertise "Clinical Sociobiology: Taking Charge of Our Genes" at this conference. I decided = to make the shirt and keep it in my case while I appraised Wilson throughout= his talk. The shirt itself was simple; Darwin, a black portrait in the upper left a= nd big red letters front and back, "Clinical Sociobiology: Taking Charge of Our Genes." The front also advertised this summer's course, "Darwinian Feelings and Values" and the back, in red, announced "Visionaries Wanted.= " = Weather -- snow and freezing rain came to the northeast on the 14th, coating my driveway and local roads with several inches of ice. I got up= at 4 AM and checked the PHL home page; yep, my 10:20 AM flight was cancelled, Delta couldn't get in planes the night before. However, rain and warm air blanked the area near the airport so I pulled out my drive a= nd skated in my car some 10 miles to wet pavement. There was a flight scheduled for 8:30 AM so I waited 2.5 hours to be the next to last standby allowed aboard. Delta's next best offer was a Sunda= y flight; my own next best plan was to drive to Washington and try to get a= flight. Dr. Wilson gave his talk on the relation of biology to the humanities whi= le in perfect control of the 1500 packed into the church. He'd come a long way from people's dumping water on his head at a Yale podium in the '70s.= = He communicated warmth and humility and concluded with a plea that we wor= k together to stop "wrecking the planet." Dr. Wilson spoke for an hour and took questions and then stayed late, signing autographs and sharing stories with us, his students. (Ed Wilson seems to be the messenger, the Paul Revere riding through the town althou= gh no one asked him to do this and a lot of people don't see a problem. H= e must both convince us that a crisis is possible and that it is occurring NOW. I'm not optimistic about our outcomes but the American Revolution w= as launched by about 10% of our population. "Consilience" is a call, indeterminately timely or late but still a call, to action. Buy, read, splice "Consilience" into your genes! [Wilson might smile here and comment that "Consilience" is already in your epigenetic rules, you just don't know it!]) Even after Dr. Wilson's talk, the shirt mission remained a 51% decision -= - a Prufrock dilemma -- but I marched obliquely to the altar rail with some= prodding from Lorraine and waited in line with the T-shirt under one arm and an abridged "Sociobiology: The New Synthesis" under the other. = Gosh! Wilson read the shirt and grew an immense smile. He laughed and first pulled out his pen but then accepted my marker. There's now a diagonal "Edward O. Wilson" across the shirt's chest. An ink trail from his hand and wrist validated 2.5 years of my nervous obsessing about the possibility of such a field of study and application. Twenty people complimented the shirt at the meetings on the next day. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Formatted version at http://forums.behavior.net/forums/evolutionary Jim Brody Clinical Sociobiology: Darwinian Feelings and Values with John Price, Russell Gardner, John Fentress, Rob Walker, Lorraine Ric= e 7/19-23/99 Cape Cod Institute From: IN%"alan.mchughen@usask.ca" "Alan McHughen" 21-JAN-1999 17:09:42.05 To: IN%"Help.Desk@usask.ca" "DCS Help Desk" CC: IN%"radius_announce@usask.ca" Subj: RE: Attention Faculty/Staff Dialup Users I am on sabbatical in Australia and use telnet to access my account (as I am doing now). I wish to maintain the dialup feature but will not be using it until I return to Saskatoon. Will there be any problem? Thanks, Alan McHughen From: IN%"furpersn@fred.net" "Nancy J Sheedy" 21-JAN-1999 20:10:14.38 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: light therapy for animals Of 10 dogs and 3 cats in our household, 1 cat and 2 dogs show this behavior much more often than the others. Almost constantly. Both dogs are indoors 90% of the time; the cat 100%. Gotta be for the D. On the other hand, at home all of these three are very stable, not easily upset by changes, etc. Doesn't hold true of them away from home. Curious. Nancy Sheedy RIGHT START Training, Frederick, MD "Tell me when I've got it right" furpersn@fred.net From: IN%"westerfield@multipro.com" 21-JAN-1999 21:29:00.39 To: IN%"cgaboury@total.net" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: facts or farce? Chantal Gaboury wrote: > > Dear All, > > Since we are starting the week off with a little humour (in reference to > J. Brody's post), I thought I would post this series of science "facts" > I received. Some of them seem a little far-fetched...I was wondering if > anyone could pick out the ones that they know are false...I was > particularly wondering if the following were true: #15; #21; #22; #25? > And if # 26 is true, what chemical is responsible? > > Thank-you! > Chantal Gaboury > > I was also wondering who financed the studies that came to the > conclusions #4 and #5? :-) > > 15) A pig's orgasm lasts for 30 minutes. > ** After reading all these, all I can say is.... Damn Pigs!!!!!!** About #15, if this true for domestic pigs and their wild relatives, wouldn't it be dangerous? Certainly they would be vulnerable to predation. Patricia Westerfield From: IN%"AShaad@aol.com" 21-JAN-1999 21:51:11.02 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Fwd: light therapy for animals This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_5XKf9+V0myeVuyrNQpi+6g) Content-id: <0_916976969@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Janice, Thank you for your suggestion. I will try it soon, but I think first I will record the number of times I see the cats in and around the lights - when, how long and whether or not it was after I was tending to them - to kind of get a "base line" Then I will definitely try moving the lights around. Thank you again. Amanda --Boundary_(ID_5XKf9+V0myeVuyrNQpi+6g) Content-id: <0_916976969@inet_out.mail.turbonet.com.2> Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Interesting set of observations. If your hypothesis is that the cats are preferentially seeking out the natural spectrum light, then try an experiment. Change the light bulbs over the plants to non-natural spectrum light (your plants can tolerate this for a short time). Put the natural spectrum light in another location. Don't change anything else, then see if the cats change the amount of time spent in the garden area. This will casually differentiate between light spectrum and location. Perhaps they just like gardens; I know I do :-) . Janice At 10:49 PM 1/20/99 -0500, you wrote: >I will try to paste this to the entire list- but I am not sure I will succeed. > >I have monitored the temp from the lights and without the lights and the temp >is the same. The humidity is much greater under the lights - because I water >more frequently than in the rest of the house. My cats do not destroy the >seedlings ( unless it is catnip :) even though they have ready access to the >seedlings and several other plants in my house - I have researched and tried >not to grow anything toxic to them except a datura plant which they have >always ignored. The light is only difference I have deduced - am I >overlooking a variable? I am more curious now than ever. I am eager for any >input you may have. Amanda > --Boundary_(ID_5XKf9+V0myeVuyrNQpi+6g)-- From: IN%"AShaad@aol.com" 21-JAN-1999 21:52:16.50 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: temp and light for plants and cats Dear Chris, Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I was measuring the temp. and humidity both under the lights with the plants and around my house in order to find the best places for some of my more finicky plants - higher humidity or higher temp. I have noticed that my cats tend lie about a foot or two from the lights - when they are near the lights. When they lay down in other parts of the house, they pick all the usual cat places - on, in, over or under furniture or gazing out the window. One cat in particular situates herself in a "sphinx" position with her body perpendicular to the lights, with her face towards the light, head down and eyes closed - to be anthropomorphic, she looks rather relaxed and peaceful. My original query was focused on finding out if cats - or animals in general - are subject to seasonal affective (affected?) disorder, and whether or not any studies had been done in that area. Thank you again for taking your time with my question. Amanda From: IN%"AShaad@aol.com" 21-JAN-1999 22:02:00.74 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Fwd: light therapy for animals This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_77T2p3vA6yS9M1d6c0c+jw) Content-id: <0_916977319@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I would like to know more about the vitamin D process and getting through the fur too. Very interesting. Amanda --Boundary_(ID_77T2p3vA6yS9M1d6c0c+jw) Content-id: <0_916977319@inet_out.mail.total.net.2> Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822 On a day where the sun is coming in my home, both of my cats and my dog will seek out a small patch of light on the floor and lay in it. It seems as though it would be the light they are seeking and not the heat as they don't lay near the radiators, and they lay in the sun in sweltering-hot days. Is it possible they are using the energy for vitamin D production, as humans do...but if so, how does it get through all that fur?? Chantal Janice Willard wrote: > > Interesting set of observations. If your hypothesis is that the cats are > preferentially seeking out the natural spectrum light, then try an > experiment. Change the light bulbs over the plants to non-natural spectrum > light (your plants can tolerate this for a short time). Put the natural > spectrum light in another location. Don't change anything else, then see > if the cats change the amount of time spent in the garden area. This will > casually differentiate between light spectrum and location. Perhaps they > just like gardens; I know I do :-) . > > Janice > > At 10:49 PM 1/20/99 -0500, you wrote: > >I will try to paste this to the entire list- but I am not sure I will > succeed. > > > >I have monitored the temp from the lights and without the lights and the temp > >is the same. The humidity is much greater under the lights - because I water > >more frequently than in the rest of the house. My cats do not destroy the > >seedlings ( unless it is catnip :) even though they have ready access to the > >seedlings and several other plants in my house - I have researched and tried > >not to grow anything toxic to them except a datura plant which they have > >always ignored. The light is only difference I have deduced - am I > >overlooking a variable? I am more curious now than ever. I am eager for any > >input you may have. Amanda --Boundary_(ID_77T2p3vA6yS9M1d6c0c+jw)-- From: IN%"AShaad@aol.com" 21-JAN-1999 22:04:20.01 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Fwd: grow lights This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_NABHbSj3w71Tsq7JEIeRdQ) Content-id: <0_916977500@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII After checking my lights, I have found that they are not actual "grow" lights. They are simply warm white lights. As far as the plants go, they seem to work as well - my seedlings have turned out great for the last few years with the same light bulbs. Go figure - and they charge so much more the "grow lights." Amanda --Boundary_(ID_NABHbSj3w71Tsq7JEIeRdQ) Content-id: <0_916977500@inet_out.mail.APS.UoGuelph.CA.2> Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Hello Amanda! Check to see the wavelengths provided in your grow light. Many grow lights do not replicate natural lighting conditions. You might be able to get this info from the internet via manufacturer advertising. DebMcW > Date sent: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:31:15 -0500 (EST) > From: AShaad@aol.com > Subject: light therapy for animals? > To: Applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca > Hello. My name is Amanda Shaad and I am new to the list. I was wondering if > any studies have been done on the effect of light therapy on animals - > especially domestic cats. Lately I have noticed my cats spending time under > my grow lights which I use for my seedlings. I ask because I have only heard > of lions "basking" in the sun. > dmcwilliams@aps.uoguelph.ca Deborah A. McWilliams Room 043, Animal and Poultry Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON, Canada, N1G 2X7 --NAA08823.916942289/wright.aps.uoguelph.ca-- dmcwilliams@aps.uoguelph.ca Deborah A. McWilliams Room 043, Animal and Poultry Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON, Canada, N1G 2X7 --Boundary_(ID_NABHbSj3w71Tsq7JEIeRdQ)-- From: IN%"meredith@farmline.com" "Michael Meredith" 22-JAN-1999 04:10:10.36 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: pig orgasms! It is not impossible for ejaculation in pigs to last 30 minutes, but it is rare - around 10 minutes is more usual, with a common range of 1-20 minutes. The lengthy uterine horns of the pig pose a formidable barrier to porcine spermatazoa endeavouring to reach the site of fertilisation - the oviduct, (more correctly known as the uterine tube). Porcine evolution seems to have got around this problem by ensuring that, during copulation, the uterine horns are completely filled with semen and the utero-tubal junctions bathed in semen. Inevitably it takes a while to "pump" in the required volume (50 to 350 ml ) of semen. The pig also has an amazing "stopper" mechanism to hold the semen in the uterus while it is being filled. In part this depends on a tight fit between the spiral tip of the penis and the cervical canal, but it is further by a special thick rubbery "gel" fraction of pig semen (produced by the enormous bubourethral glands of the boar). Further information on pig reproduction (and other farm animals & horses) can be found in the multiauthor textbook I edited: "Animal Breeding and Infertility", details at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0632040386/pigdiseaseinformA/ Regards, Mike Meredith ======== (-----Original Message----- >Chantal Gaboury wrote: >> Dear All, >> Since we are starting the week off with a little humour (in reference to >> J. Brody's post), I thought I would post this series of science "facts" >> I received. Some of them seem a little far-fetched...I was wondering if >> anyone could pick out the ones that they know are false...I was >> particularly wondering if the following were true: #15; #21; #22; #25? >> Thank-you! >> Chantal Gaboury >> 15) A pig's orgasm lasts for 30 minutes. >> ** After reading all these, all I can say is.... Damn Pigs!!!!!!** >About #15, if this true for domestic pigs and their wild relatives, >wouldn't it be dangerous? Certainly they would be vulnerable to >predation. >Patricia Westerfield From: IN%"chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" 22-JAN-1999 06:02:24.63 To: IN%"AShaad@aol.com" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: temperature/light and moggies Dear Amanda and others, Having 2 cats of my own, I know how highly motivated and proficient=20 these heat-seeking critters are at making their lives as warm as=20 possible. So, it is my suspicion that Amanda=D5s cats are sitting under=20 the lights because of thermal considerations, not light. To know=20 whether this is the case, we need to accurately characterise the=20 thermal environment. Unfortunately, the readily available mercury=20 thermometer, which measures air (ambient) temperature is not the most=20 physiologically relevant method. Next time you are out on a cold night=20 with an open sky, walk under a tree or an open-sided shelter - you will=20 feel warmer, yet, if you were to take a mercury thermometer with you,=20 the air temperature would remain the same. (The tree prevents you from=20 radiating heat to the open sky meaning that you =D4feel=D5 warmer.) =20 Similarly, when we sit around a glowing camp-fire at night, we feel=20 warm, though a mercury thermometer might again give a surprisingly low=20 reading. (The fire radiates heat to surrounding bodies but does not=20 warm the air as much.) This is all because the standard mercury=20 thermometer does not accurately take into account heat lost and gained=20 by radiation. The recommended method is to place the thermometer so=20 that its bulb is at the centre of a hollow copper sphere, 6 inches in=20 diameter, painted matt black. (This method was developed for sailors=20 who were complaining that although the air temperature in the ship was=20 high, lying near the hull of the ship was uncomfortably cold.) So,=20 the cats might be choosing to lie under the lights because these are=20 causing localised areas to be warmer, but in a way which is not=20 readily detected by a standard mercury thermometer. Also, it is=20 possible that the cats are seeking out surfaces under the lights which=20 are slightly warmer than the surrounding surfaces, so the cats might be=20 choosing to gain heat by conduction. Then again, they might just prefer brighter light! Regards Chris Sherwin ---------------------- Chris Sherwin Division of Animal Health and Husbandry University of Bristol Langford House Langford Bristol BS40 5DU Phone: (0117) 928 9486 Fax: (01934) 928 9582 E-mail chris.sherwin@bris.ac.uk From: IN%"rc_rutt@ndirect.co.uk" "Chris Rutt" 22-JAN-1999 07:05:03.65 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology List", IN%"AShaad@aol.com" CC: Subj: RE: light therapy for animals If you are really keen on this, have a look at this URL... http://www.users.mis.net/~pthrush/lighting/ He is running a very active thread on this in relation to birds on the Birdtech List at present. The list owner for that is rex@ptw.com Best wishes Chris (in UK) rc_rutt@ndirect.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: AShaad@aol.com To: Applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca Date: 22 January 1999 04:03 Subject: Fwd: light therapy for animals >I would like to know more about the vitamin D process and getting through the >fur too. Very interesting. Amanda > From: IN%"pfcarell@gw.dec.state.ny.us" "Paul Carella" 22-JAN-1999 08:33:57.92 To: IN%"jbrody@compuserve.com", IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: Social conscience spam -Reply Jon, At the time, I did not give a lot of thought to whether or not I should forward the message to the list. In retrospect, I believe that posting it may have saved a number of people time and energy, and prevented the petition from reaching many more folks who are not on the list. Also, it contains the addresses of several web sites with useful information. Paul >>> Jon Watts 01/21/99 03:30pm >>> Dear Paul: What was it about a message that started "do not forward this email to anyone else" that made you want to forward it to another 600 or so people? Dear Jim: Spam comes in all flavours these days. Aside from porn spam, virus alert spam and "get yourself a special account so you can generate spam" spam. There now seems to be an irritating kind of social conscience spam. Why anyone would put their name to an email petition without some other verification of the emotively presented cause, or what good they think it would do, is a mystery to me. Don't misunderstand me. If women are getting such a bad deal in Afghanistan, it's a serious issue of human rights. On the other hand, if the info presented is hyped up to further somebody's political agenda (as I suspect) I'd want to know who they are and what axe they have to grind before I just bought it all in one politically correct reflex. You might equally well argue that it is unacceptable for Westerners to demand that other cultures abandon their own traditional values and accept ours. I think a lot of subscribers to this list (including me) are interested in animal welfare. Many are active researchers in this field and proponents of improving standards of animal use. That doesn't mean that they would accept, uncritically, all of the propaganda spewed out by some animal rights organizations. Even on subjects where they perfectly well realize that there definitely are significant welfare problems to be addressed. So why would they treat unsubstantiated rantings on other humanitarian issues any differently? I'd be happier if people didn't use this list as an easy way to spam hundreds of people with a few keystrokes. Especially with stuff utterly irrelevant to applied ethology. Jon ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Watts (___) ) ) University of Saskatchewan |o o|___________/ ( Dept of Herd Medicine O \#/ | ) and Theriogenology |bser| | Statistical | ( Western College of Vet. Med. |vati| | analysis | ) 52 Campus Drive |ons.| \___________/| *& Saskatoon ------ || || %$#@ S7N 1B4 / \ || || ^*@*~ Canada &^%%#$@ wattsjon@duke.usask.ca "The Holy Cow" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IN%"chris.gotman@sympatico.ca" 22-JAN-1999 08:40:15.02 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: facts or farce? Dear Patricia Westerfield, Consider as well the canine family. Dogs also remained joined during copulation for a long time and thus are vulnerable to predation for a short while. But what is 30 minutes out of one year? That's just not long enough a period of time in the life of a mammal to be deleterious. Now if the swine only got in the mood while predators were watching, there you would have an impact on fitness. :-) sincerely, Chris Gotman Quebec, Canada From: IN%"cbrady@four-h.purdue.edu" "Colleen Brady" 22-JAN-1999 09:06:51.45 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: Light/Behavior Hi, My name is Colleen Brady. I have recently finished my PhD work at Michigan = State University in the area of Equine Reproductive Physiology, and am = currently at Purdue University as a 4-H Youth Specialist, working = primarily with horses and companion animals. My primary areas of interest = are human/animal interactions, and therapeutic use of animals. Although I = was on the list as a graduate student, I primarily lurked in the shadows. In regards to the question about the effects of light on mammalian = behavior. In response to increased light hours (artificial or ambient), = mares will come out of winter anestrus. As a result, many breeders who = wish to begin the breeding season earlier, expose their mares to = additional light in the late winter or early spring. = Colleen Brady Purdue University 1161 Agriculture Administration Bldg. W.Lafayette, IN 47909 cbrady@four-h.purdue.edu From: IN%"dreyn@sirius.com" 22-JAN-1999 10:22:32.18 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied-Ethology" CC: Subj: RE: Spam Jon Watts wrote: > I'd be happier if people didn't use this list as an easy way to spam > hundreds of people with a few keystrokes. Hello List. An idea for handling the recent topic of "spam attacks": Perhaps those folks who have an +animal+ issue and petition that they feel particularly passionate about could be encouraged to follow protocol such as this: A few lines to the list as to why this issue is, from their perspective, worthy of our attention and a separate website edress for interested parties to follow for further information and petition signing. Because this is such a powerful medium and many of the people on this list are in places of influence, I believe it would be a shame to shut down all opportunities of information exchange and possible benefits that may evolve from the sharing of potentially important current events. If anything, hearing what animal issues are stoking the fires of some of the personalities on this list is certainly an interesting way to view current trends in ethics and, with comments from the initiators, may even serve to open up thought-provoking discussions. Just ruminating ;O) , Donna Reynolds From: IN%"meredith@farmline.com" "Michael Meredith" 22-JAN-1999 11:16:20.78 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: RE: human/livestock interactions Hello Colleen! >University in the area of Equine Reproductive Physiology, and am currently at Purdue University as a 4-H Youth Specialist, working primarily with horses and companion animals. My primary areas of interest are human/animal interactions, and therapeutic use of animals. Although I was on the list as a graduate student, I primarily lurked in the shadows. I wonder if you are aware of the new book by Paul Hemsworth and his group in Australia on human/livestock interactions? It is primarily about farm animals, but is a classic on the subject, and reviews a lot of recent studies on stockpersons and their effect on behaviour, productivity and welfare. "Human-Livestock Interactions: The Stockperson and the Productivity and Welfare of Intensively Farmed Animals" by Paul H. Hemsworth & G.J. Coleman (1998) Hardcover, 176 pages Approx price: 55 US dollars You can find further details of the book on the Amazon web site at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0851991955/pigdiseaseinformA/ Regards, Mike From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 22-JAN-1999 12:17:19.34 To: IN%"hbe-l@a3.com" "INTERNET:hbe-l@a3.com" CC: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody", IN%"jbrody@mediaone.com" "Jim Brody", IN%"biaeagle@jps.net" "James or Susannah Bianchi", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych" Subj: RE: Meeting EO Wilson & Clinical Sociobiology Message text written by INTERNET:hbe-l@a3.com >I think it is fine for anyone to endeavor to take charge of their own genes. It is when they attempt to take charge of mine in the = righteous name of science that I worry.< I'm not aware that anyone wants to take charge of yours! Please clarify. Jim Brody From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 22-JAN-1999 12:39:41.76 To: IN%"isilv@yorku.ca" "Irwin Silverman" CC: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology", IN%"biaeagle@jps.net" "James or Susannah Bianchi", IN%"jbrody@mediaone.com" "Jim Brody", IN%"hbe-l@a3.com" Subj: RE: Meeting EO Wilson & Clinical Sociobiology Message text written by Irwin Silverman >although his might be closer to my own value system than theirs. < I think this to be true and the genetics model that he poses is certainly= a non-linear one. My personal slant is that unless we understand our genetics contributions= , the mechanisms will kick in automatically and without consulting the newe= r parts of our minds. For example, nasty things regularly occur between humans (Bosnia, South Africa, and a very long list) and MAY be more a function of externals tuning older response systems .. more a function of= such processes than lectures and reason can steer. We may have some greater chances for self regulation by changing our niches rather than lecturing ourselves once we are in a survival mode. Also perhaps need to= stay in a "dispersed mode" and be very suspicious of "national movements.= " Have you read "Consilience" ? Jim Brody From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 22-JAN-1999 13:38:28.40 To: IN%"kckissan@wam.umd.edu" "Kelly Caithlin Kissane" CC: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology", IN%"biaeagle@jps.net" "James or Susannah Bianchi", IN%"jbrody@mediaone.com" "Jim Brody", IN%"hbe-l@a3.com" Subj: RE: Meeting EO Wilson & Clinical Sociobiology Message text written by Kelly Caithlin Kissane >Kind of a sideline on this, but I shiver in my proverbial boots when I hear that more and more business are doing "genetic checks" on potential employees. I have a family history of alcoholism, manic-depression, clinical depression, obesity, heart disease, diabetes and god knows what else - may not be marketable within my own lifetime, simply because of my genes. Kelly C. Kissane< Those same markers in a different setting are consistent with grandeur, leadership, scattering kids in an r-selection frenzy, and saving the British Empire. Jim Brody From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 22-JAN-1999 13:49:05.34 To: IN%"kckissan@wam.umd.edu" "Kelly Caithlin Kissane", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych", IN%"hbe-l@a3.com" "INTERNET:hbe-l@a3.com", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: Webpage Message text written by Kelly Caithlin Kissane >Jim, Is there anything wrong with your webpage? I have not been able to loo= k at in several months.. Kelly C. Kissane< I wish you had spoken sooner! There's a new URL for one of them: http://forums.behavior.net/evolutionary. The other one is still http://www.clinical-sociobiology.com You can also get into my former cluttered room for a little while longer,= http://www.behavior.net/mhn/bolforum/message/27 Thanks for trying!! Jim Brody From: IN%"Herman@hpeet.demon.nl" "Herman Peet" 22-JAN-1999 19:04:15.43 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'Applied ethology list'" CC: IN%"ClickTeach@onelist.com" "'ClickTeach@onelist.com'" Subj: Dear listmembers, I have a slightly unusual question... Via my website I received a request for help for someone with an agressive dog. I would like to refer these people to a canine behaviourist, however, they happen to be US citizens living in the United Arab Emirates. That is way beyond my network of trainers and behaviourists. Does anyone of you know someone I can refer to in that region? Thanks for any suggestions, Best regards, Herman Peet "Kwispel" canine behaviour counselling mailto:Kwispel@hpeet.demon.nl web: www.hpeet.demon.nl From: IN%"Anna.Olsson@hmh.slu.se" "Anna Olsson" 23-JAN-1999 10:55:43.87 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: learning theory Dear all, Does anybody know of a dictionary of learning psychology or a textbook that explains learning psychology / learning theory in a way that is slightly above undergraduate level but still accessible, i e contains explanations of the terminology.=20 As I'm getting desperate trying to go through some learning papers, any help will be very much appreciated! Yours sincerely Anna Olsson ----------------------------------------------------- Anna Olsson doktorand Inst f=F6r husdjurens milj=F6 och h=E4lsa Sveriges Lantbruksuniversitet Box 234 532 23 Skara Dept of Animal Environment and Health Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences P O Box 234 S-532 23 Skara Sweden tel 46 (0)511 - 67245 (direct), 67218 (secretary) fax 46 (0)511 - 67204 e-mail anna.olsson@hmh.slu.se From: IN%"cgaboury@total.net" 23-JAN-1999 12:34:08.15 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"Anna.Olsson@hmh.slu.se" CC: Subj: RE: learning theory Hi Anna! I had a similar problem, and I had found and bookmarked these sites: http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/rbeard/diction4.html http://dir.yahoo.com/Reference/Dictionaries/Web_Directories/ Hope they help! Chantal :-) Anna Olsson wrote: > > Dear all, > > Does anybody know of a dictionary of learning psychology or a textbook that > explains learning psychology / learning theory in a way that is slightly > above undergraduate level but still accessible, i e contains explanations > of the terminology. > > As I'm getting desperate trying to go through some learning papers, any > help will be very much appreciated! > > Yours sincerely > > Anna Olsson > ----------------------------------------------------- > > Anna Olsson > doktorand > > Inst för husdjurens miljö och hälsa > Sveriges Lantbruksuniversitet > Box 234 > 532 23 Skara > > Dept of Animal Environment and Health > Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences > P O Box 234 > S-532 23 Skara > Sweden > > tel 46 (0)511 - 67245 (direct), 67218 (secretary) > fax 46 (0)511 - 67204 > > e-mail anna.olsson@hmh.slu.se From: IN%"tstawar@bigfoot.com" 23-JAN-1999 16:34:23.43 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Feline social dynamics Hello, I read a lot of works explaing dog behavior in terms of wolf-pack dynamics. Is there any works explaining domestic cat behavior in terms of big cat (lions) social dynamics or are domestic cats too far removed (in evolutionary terms) from the big cats for that to make much sense. Also I've heard that in lion prides that pregnant females spontaeously abort when a new alpha male takes over. Is that true Any documentation and does it happens with other cats (domestic feral, etc.) Thanks Terry Terry Stawar, Ed.D. D.A.B.P.S. Peace River Center Lakeland, Florida USA tstawar@bigfoot.com From: IN%"rc_rutt@ndirect.co.uk" "Chris Rutt" 23-JAN-1999 17:30:09.04 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology List", IN%"tstawar@bigfoot.com" CC: Subj: RE: Feline social dynamics I had understood that new alpha males killed cubs in the pride he had taken over, but never heard of spontaneous abortion in the way that you describe. Best wishes Chris (in UK) rc_rutt@ndirect.co.uk http://www.rc-rutt.ndirect.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: Terry Stawar To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca Date: 23 January 1999 22:37 Subject: Feline social dynamics >Hello, > >I read a lot of works explaing dog behavior in terms of wolf-pack >dynamics. Is there any works explaining domestic cat behavior in terms >of big cat (lions) social dynamics or are domestic cats too far removed >(in evolutionary terms) from the big cats for that to make much sense. > >Also I've heard that in lion prides that pregnant females spontaeously >abort when a new alpha male takes over. Is that true Any documentation >and does it happens with other cats (domestic feral, etc.) > >Thanks > > >Terry > >Terry Stawar, Ed.D. D.A.B.P.S. >Peace River Center >Lakeland, Florida USA >tstawar@bigfoot.com > From: IN%"rc_rutt@ndirect.co.uk" "Chris Rutt" 24-JAN-1999 05:28:29.02 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology List" CC: IN%"tstawar@bigfoot.com" Subj: Fw: Feline social dynamics John's message seems to have come only to me, and not to the List so am forwarding the additional input he provides. Best wishes Chris (in UK) rc_rutt@ndirect.co.uk http://www.rc-rutt.ndirect.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: John Kincaid To: Chris Rutt Cc: Applied Ethology List ; tstawar@bigfoot.com Date: 24 January 1999 01:32 Subject: Re: Feline social dynamics >Hi Terry; >I don't know of spontaneousy aborting. What I do know is that as long as >the she lion is nursing cubs she will not come into heat but in a few >days after the new male kills the cubs she comes into heat and the new >boy has a chance to perpetuate his genes. > >Take care >John > >Chris Rutt wrote: > >> I had understood that new alpha males killed cubs in the pride he >> had taken over, but never heard of spontaneous abortion in the >> way that you describe. >> >> Best wishes >> >> Chris (in UK) >> rc_rutt@ndirect.co.uk >> http://www.rc-rutt.ndirect.co.uk >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Terry Stawar >> To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca >> >> Date: 23 January 1999 22:37 >> Subject: Feline social dynamics >> >> >Hello, >> > >> >I read a lot of works explaing dog behavior in terms of >> wolf-pack >> >dynamics. Is there any works explaining domestic cat behavior in >> terms >> >of big cat (lions) social dynamics or are domestic cats too far >> removed >> >(in evolutionary terms) from the big cats for that to make much >> sense. >> > >> >Also I've heard that in lion prides that pregnant females >> spontaeously >> >abort when a new alpha male takes over. Is that true Any >> documentation >> >and does it happens with other cats (domestic feral, etc.) >> > >> >Thanks >> > >> > >> >Terry >> > >> >Terry Stawar, Ed.D. D.A.B.P.S. >> >Peace River Center >> >Lakeland, Florida USA >> >tstawar@bigfoot.com >> > > From: IN%"amarildo@netflash.com.br" "Amarildo Miranda" 24-JAN-1999 18:26:16.77 To: IN%"rc_rutt@ndirect.co.uk" "Chris Rutt", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology List" CC: IN%"tstawar@bigfoot.com" Subj: RE: Feline social dynamics Sometime, the spontaneous abortion occurs because of stress caused by new male introduced in the group and not only to perpetuate the new gene. Amarildo Veterinarian, Brazil -----Mensagem original----- De: Chris Rutt Para: Applied Ethology List Cc: tstawar@bigfoot.com Data: Domingo, 24 de Janeiro de 1999 10:29 Assunto: Fw: Feline social dynamics >John's message seems to have come only to me, and not to the List >so am forwarding the additional input he provides. >Best wishes > >Chris (in UK) >rc_rutt@ndirect.co.uk >http://www.rc-rutt.ndirect.co.uk > >-----Original Message----- >From: John Kincaid >To: Chris Rutt >Cc: Applied Ethology List ; >tstawar@bigfoot.com >Date: 24 January 1999 01:32 >Subject: Re: Feline social dynamics > > >>Hi Terry; >>I don't know of spontaneousy aborting. What I do know is that as >long as >>the she lion is nursing cubs she will not come into heat but in >a few >>days after the new male kills the cubs she comes into heat and >the new >>boy has a chance to perpetuate his genes. >> >>Take care >>John >> >>Chris Rutt wrote: >> >>> I had understood that new alpha males killed cubs in the pride >he >>> had taken over, but never heard of spontaneous abortion in the >>> way that you describe. >>> >>> Best wishes >>> >>> Chris (in UK) >>> rc_rutt@ndirect.co.uk >>> http://www.rc-rutt.ndirect.co.uk >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Terry Stawar >>> To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca >>> >>> Date: 23 January 1999 22:37 >>> Subject: Feline social dynamics >>> >>> >Hello, >>> > >>> >I read a lot of works explaing dog behavior in terms of >>> wolf-pack >>> >dynamics. Is there any works explaining domestic cat behavior >in >>> terms >>> >of big cat (lions) social dynamics or are domestic cats too >far >>> removed >>> >(in evolutionary terms) from the big cats for that to make >much >>> sense. >>> > >>> >Also I've heard that in lion prides that pregnant females >>> spontaeously >>> >abort when a new alpha male takes over. Is that true Any >>> documentation >>> >and does it happens with other cats (domestic feral, etc.) >>> > >>> >Thanks >>> > >>> > >>> >Terry >>> > >>> >Terry Stawar, Ed.D. D.A.B.P.S. >>> >Peace River Center >>> >Lakeland, Florida USA >>> >tstawar@bigfoot.com From: IN%"V.W.Koch@usda.gov" "V W Koch" 26-JAN-1999 12:09:14.31 To: IN%"Applied-Ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Canadian rejection of recombinant bovine Growth Hormone Tarjei Tennessen asked whether or not national animal welfare standards can be maintained despite deregulated globalized trade agreements. I suspect welfare standards will be handled the same as everything else. If the World Court agrees there's a scientific basis for them, they can be maintained. If not, they will be "overturned." Where you'd go from there, I don't know. I imagine someday there'll be a test case. Should be interesting to see what happens. Wendy Koch v.w.koch@usda.gov From: IN%"meredith@farmline.com" "Michael Meredith" 26-JAN-1999 13:46:15.35 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Ethology Group Posting", IN%"Anna.Olsson@hmh.slu.se" "Anna Olsson" CC: Subj: RE: learning theory Dear Anna, You might also like to look at: Introduction to Operant Conditioning by Mark Plonsky, Ph.D. http://www.uwsp.edu/acad/psych/dog/conseq.htm If you are tired of wasting time searching the web, or typing in URLs, you may be interested in a diskette-based guide we produce to behaviour and welfare resources on the WWW. Contact me if you would like details. Mike Meredith *=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*+=*+=* Michael Meredith Pig Disease Information Centre Ltd. 4, New Close Farm Business Park Bar Road, Lolworth, Cambs., CB3 8DS, U.K. International fax:+44-1954-780235 or +44-1954-780568 M.D.'s Electronic mail: meredith@farmline.com Company Email: pdic@btinternet.com Members of AHIS (Animal Health Information Specialists) UK & Ireland *=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=* From: IN%"taylora@ican.net" 26-JAN-1999 18:21:58.57 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology List" CC: Subj: NA ISAE Get-Together??? NA-ers: Well, the response to my query for Canadian Members' input on the NA Regional meeting was scarce in numbers, maybe, but I appreciate the important points raised therein, and by others in conversation etc. I must say that I am particularly persuaded by Joe's assertion/reminder (which is shared by others I have since spoken with) that our intent is for the NA meeting to be a starting point for graduate students, and therefore should be affordable, approachable, and not too intimidating. In addition, the more "seasoned" among us might enjoy the opportunity to discuss work, past, present, and future, in a more informal atmosphere. I think that this is an important point, and thank Joe for the reminder/re-focus. In light of that, here is a second proposal: A workshop-like meeting, wherein every attendee may claim, say, 15-min of time to present/discuss their work -- past, future, and present -- with colleagues. You may elect to present complete results in a traditional sci-meeting format, or to present preliminary or unexpected results from a pilot and seek input on how to proceed, or to bring up issues or questions related to our (collective) work. Whatever. I have put out some feelers at MacDonald College of McGill Univ (Montreal) and it seems that we could have quite reasonable-priced access to a meeting room in the Farm Centre, adjoining the dairy barn, plus residence rooms for accomodation (depending on the date). We could add in (perhaps) a poster session the night before, plus an outing or two and a couple of social events ... maybe not quite Joe's camping trip suggestion, but somewhat in that direction. So - What do you NA-ers think of this alternate concept? Allison Can Reg Sec -- Allison Taylor, PhD taylora@ican.net Animal Behaviourist Freelance Journalist & Desktop Publisher List-Sitter: Longears Email List (Donkeys, Mules, & Hinnies) From: IN%"jcox@netcomuk.co.uk" "jcox" 27-JAN-1999 03:54:29.55 To: IN%"V.W.Koch@usda.gov" "V W Koch", IN%"Applied-Ethology@sask.usask.ca" "IPM Return Requested" CC: Subj: RE: Canadian rejection of recombinant bovine Growth Hormone For those interested in full story as regards the status of animal welfare standards in the face of increased global de-regulation/free trade, the RSPCA has an excellent new report out on GATT/WTO. The threat to national animal welfare standards is real. The RSPCA's enquiries service can be contacted by e-mail at: webmail@rspca.org.uk Kind Regards, Janice Cox ---------- > From: V W Koch > To: IPM Return Requested > Subject: Re: Canadian rejection of recombinant bovine Growth Hormone > Date: 26 January 1999 18:04 > > Tarjei Tennessen asked whether or not national > animal welfare standards can be maintained despite deregulated > globalized trade agreements. > > I suspect welfare standards will be handled the same as everything else. If > the World Court agrees there's a scientific basis for them, they can be > maintained. If not, they will be "overturned." Where you'd go from there, I > don't know. I imagine someday there'll be a test case. Should be interesting > to see what happens. > > Wendy Koch > v.w.koch@usda.gov From: IN%"howiebru@HK.Super.NET" 27-JAN-1999 04:03:44.44 To: IN%"74747.2301@compuserve.com", IN%"doesburg@netpci.com", IN%"ijimeko@netvigator.com", IN%"arj.tebbutt@eudoramail.com", IN%"abk@knightfisk.co.uk", IN%"asp@HK.Super.NET", IN%"natalie.r.smith@uk.pwcglobal.com", IN%"barrysue@HK.Super.NET", IN%"internet!Wi CC: Subj: email change Boys and girls, As of now please send any emails not to howiebru@hk.super.net but to howiebrou@ctimail.com ( i think) shot xxxhowiexxx From: IN%"Frank.Odberg@rug.ac.be" 27-JAN-1999 04:21:49.19 To: IN%"V.W.Koch@usda.gov" "V W Koch" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Canadian rejection of recombinant bovine Growth Hormone > Tarjei Tennessen asked whether or not national > animal welfare standards can be maintained despite deregulated > globalized trade agreements. > > I suspect welfare standards will be handled the same as everything else. If > the World Court agrees there's a scientific basis for them, they can be > maintained. If not, they will be "overturned." Where you'd go from there, I > don't know. I imagine someday there'll be a test case. Should be interesting > to see what happens. > > Wendy Koch > v.w.koch@usda.gov > Indeed. That's also why I think the "GATT" or "WTO" agreements, accepted by the European politicians under American utra-liberal ideologyl and economical pressure, are a disaster for animal welfare. What was patiently developed with scientific arguments, supported by public opinion, and obtained after years within the EU is now jeopardized by the free import of animal products which are not obtained according to EU welfare standards. It is very important politicians are pressurized by all credible institutions and societies for the next WTO discussion round to accept scientifically-based welfare arguments as a legitimate reason to regulate import/export. I hope extremist or physically and verbally aggressive persons will not discredit and weaken these endeavours by inducing backfire reactions. Prof.Dr.F.O.OEdberg Faculty of Veterinary Medicine Department of Animal Nutrition, Genetics, Production and Ethology Heidestraat 19 B-9820 Merelbeke tel: +32-(0)9-2647804 fax: +32-(0)9-2647849 From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 27-JAN-1999 09:33:03.05 To: IN%"hbe-l@a3.com" "INTERNET:hbe-l@a3.com", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych" CC: Subj: Amy From Limerick and the Komodo Dragon Amy from Limerick and the Komodo Dragon Several ideas -- Eden, rhythms, overlaps of men and women, and even Paul MacLean (!) -- intersected in a few paragraphs of this morning's paper. = A blond 16 yo, Amy Schneider, tells us things about consilience, dinosaurs,= and perhaps finding Eden. Amy is 5-5, 110#, and a student at the Hill School in Pottstown which has only taken girls as regular students for a year or two. Daughter of a contractor in Limerick, Amy lifts weights, runs 4 miles per day at the indoor track when possible, plays B Team ice hockey for the Hill in addition to lacrosse, and field hockey. She also, despite big blue eyes clear complexion, and rosy cheeks, shows many traits often stereotyped as "male" as well as sometimes indicative o= f subclinical "mania," that lively determined alpha state described by John= Price and Russ Gardner. You see, going on less than average amounts of sleep can be a part of the structure -- Amy hits the rack at midnight and= gets up at 6 A.M. I -- and probably many others -- have suggested that "Eden" is personal a= nd individual, perhaps an overlap of our birthplaces and our destinations. = We each vary in our traits and we seek experiences and niches consistent wit= h such. Eden and Heaven are the same for none of us despite claims about a= "universal human nature." "My Father's house has many rooms" acquires a slightly different meaning than generally ascribed to that phrase. While= we have a high percentage of overlap with each other; each of us is also = a bit different from every other one of us. We differ in our beginnings an= d in our preferred ends and in the paths we travel from one to the other. = Thus, none of us will imitate Amy in regard to her goals and tactics; non= e of us should try to. We each "need to do" the Amy thing but in ways that= fit our own tapes of epigenetic rules and the options in our varied niche= s. Paul MacLean? We have biological continuity with the first replicating units whatever their nature from about 4 eons ago. We do not have one original environment but, as David Buss mentioned once, a different selective environment depending upon the particular features that you may= examine in our mental structures. Thus, MacLean's attention to our basal= ganglia was probably accurate in regard to them as devices for the fundamentals of dominance, mating, courtship, feeding, escape, and communication. We perhaps share -- whether by convergence or by a continuous refinement of the same original tools -- the mannerisms, the goals, and the basic routines with a large and previously unlikely mix of= critters. Insert us -- lizards, birds, cats, and people -- into that tavern in "Star Wars" and everyone else there would consider us to be kindred earthlings. Hollywood used ducks as templates for the movements of dinosaur models in= Jurassic Park. Probably an accurate representation? Most humans, possibly regardless of culture, prefer the color blue. Frogs have blue detectors. I would imagine birds to share them with us. There is a continuity not only of DNA but also of the mechanisms -- the big eyes, th= e skittering waltzes we perform in courtship, the upright postures that lizards and Swartzenegger and Stallone display and that most of us try to= imitate whether in confrontation or posing for ladies. Skeptical? Listen to Amy who rides in horse shows; her mount is "Hypnotized," a son of "Seattle Slew." "And I get so much joy out of riding. It's the greatest thing in my life= . To tune into your horse is so amazing. It's like you are singing along t= o a song, matching your words up with the singer and every beat is the same= . "That is what riding feels like BECAUSE THE HORSE'S BEAT IS ESSENTIALLY M= Y BEAT, TOO (emph added). You have to almost melt into the horse, feel the= horse's rhythm at every fence. This is how I know whether I did well or not at a show, regardless of if I win or place." (Quoted material by Rosemarie Ross, Mercury Sports Writer. Pottstown Mercury, 1/27/99, p 1.) I'm convinced. Jim Brody http://www.clinical-sociobiology.com http://forums.behavior.net/evolutionary Clinical Sociobiology: Darwinian Feelings and Values John Price, Russ Gardner, John Fentress, Jim Brody, Robin Walker July 19-23, 1999 20th Cape Cod Institute (register at http://www.cape.org/1999/ 15 CEU for health care professionals From: IN%"V.W.Koch@usda.gov" "V W Koch" 27-JAN-1999 09:55:28.75 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Canadian rejection of recombinant bovine Growth Hormone ---------------------- Forwarded by V W Koch/CA/APHIS/USDA on 01/27/99 07:47 AM --------------------------- aa266@piglet.INS.CWRU.Edu on 01/26/99 04:33:21 PM To: V W Koch@aphisnotes@gw cc: Subject: Re: Canadian rejection of recombinant bovine Growth Hormone Dear Sir, I have been a member of applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca for years, but recently there seem to be technical glitches with either my program or theirs. I get my posts returned because "You are not allowed to use this (forum)" They have not informed me of persona non grata status so would you please foreward this to the forum so that I may rejoin the discussion. Thank you very much! Reply to message from V.W.Koch@usda.gov of Tue, 26 Jan > >Tarjei Tennessen asked whether or not national >animal welfare standards can be maintained despite deregulated >globalized trade agreements. > >I suspect welfare standards will be handled the same as everything else. If >the World Court agrees there's a scientific basis for them, they can be >maintained. If not, they will be "overturned." Where you'd go from there, I >don't know. I imagine someday there'll be a test case. Should be interesting >to see what happens. > >Wendy Koch >v.w.koch@usda.gov > > -- ^ ^ DBC (aka D.B. Cameron, DVM) < \ / > Animal Behavior Clinic 440/826-0013 ! ! 18250 Main Street Fx: 234-3407 .. Middleburg Hts., OH 44130 From: IN%"lynfra@globalnet.co.uk" "Lynn Crook" 27-JAN-1999 14:25:38.04 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: pack behaviour Hi all, hope this doesn't upset too many folk as it is dog based! Has anyone any experience of domestic house based packs of dogs (as oppose to kennelled dogs) attacking a pack member who has been injured----or attacking their human carer? Is it a natural behaviour of a pack to turn on an injured member? Thanks. lynn From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 27-JAN-1999 19:10:24.64 To: IN%"evans@brookings.net" "Dave Evans" CC: IN%"hbe-l@a3.com" "INTERNET:hbe-l@a3.com", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" Subj: Thomas Wolfe & Amy Dave, Great comments and thanks. The lines from Wolfe -- they've flowed into m= y memory; thank you so much for them. I'm not sure about the behavior strands concept. It's logical and ought = to have been done. I hope that someone else on the list can advise us. The= sensory piece is apt to be easier than the motor sequences (but maybe not= !) Jim Brody =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =46rom Dave Evans, evans@brookings.net, in regard to Amy from Limerick: You are right on with your observations. I remember once standing next = to a young woman at cocktail party, and when she looked at me I = straightened up. I was a bit embarrassed when she mentioned that she = was aware of my suddenly straightening up (I forget her words). = But I feel that what you are on the right path. You know, somebody = ought to do an anthology of behavioral trends running through = evolution--the kinds of things you talk about from everyday experience. = . .how they reach back through the homonids to other animals. Have you = ever considered that kind of a project? Ever read John Bliebtrue's = (sp?) THE PARABLE OF THE BEAST? I read it years ago and got a lot from = it. It got me interested in Tinbergen and Lorenz and others. I'm going to give the quote from Amy about horses to my daugher-in-law, = who buys race horses and trains them for show horses--jumping, etc. = She knows horses too. By the way, speaking of horses, I remember = reading in THE RED AND THE BLACK by the French novelist Stendahl (maybe = I mentioned this to you before): There's nothing taller than a man on horseback. What really fascinates me is just what you say: that we all differ = enormously, and yet we are human. That I can go to China and tell one = face from another, out of all those millions of faces--that is = incredible, isn't it? Obviously, knowing how to discern individual = faces is based on an extremely important epigenetic rule. It must've = mattered a lot in the original environment(s). = And then I think of Thomas Wolfe's line: " Each of us is all the sums he has not counted. Subtract us into = nakedness and night again, and you shall see begin in Crete 4,000 years = ago, a love that ended yesterday in Texas . . . " That's from the = opening of LOOK HOMEWARD, ANGEL. Stay in touch. Dave E. = From: IN%"rc_rutt@ndirect.co.uk" "Chris Rutt" 28-JAN-1999 07:27:51.12 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology List", IN%"lynfra@globalnet.co.uk" "Lynn Crook" CC: Subj: RE: pack behaviour Lynne My experience in a domestic group of three was just the opposite. Two of the dogs constantly washed the eyes of the third who had an eyelid malformation, so that its effects went unnoticed by vets. or the family - and we are experienced dog owners - until the oldest dog passed and one dog moved away with my son when he left home about a month later . The malformation was such and the exudate so bad that the affected dog was almost blinded as soon as it did not get the attention from its pack mates. For information the oldest dog was a Newfoundland, my son's dog (the youngest) was a Golden Retriever and the dog with a problem was an English Springer Spaniel. The pack structure among them was definitely in age order so the Springer was attended by both inferior and superior members. With regard to injured humans, the Springer in particular was extremely acute in perceiving early onset of epileptic seizures in my son, and if no human was with my son at such a time would immediately attract the attention of any other human around by rushing to them, then back to my son in a highly excited manner. This however I feel sure was a learned reaction as of course humans noticing the signs would immediately go to his assistance. The same dog would rush to the phone when it rang, again a circumstance in which humans showed an urgent reaction. In other cases of human injury the dogs would show more interest in the injured person if a member of their household, and an apparent desire to spend more time near the injured party. However, these dogs all showed normal guarding and sexual behaviours and I have no reason to think they were atypical in other regards. Anecdotal I know, but thought it might be of interest. Best wishes Chris (in UK) rc_rutt@ndirect.co.uk http://www.rc-rutt.ndirect.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: Lynn Crook To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca Date: 27 January 1999 20:30 Subject: pack behaviour > Hi all, hope this doesn't upset too many folk as it is dog based! > > Has anyone any experience of domestic house based packs of dogs (as oppose >to kennelled dogs) attacking a pack member who has been injured----or >attacking their human carer? Is it a natural behaviour of a pack to turn on >an injured member? >Thanks. >lynn > From: IN%"joseph.garner@new.oxford.ac.uk" "Joseph Garner" 28-JAN-1999 12:21:11.57 To: IN%"Anna.Olsson@hmh.slu.se" "Anna Olsson" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Ethology Applied" Subj: RE: learning theory Dear Anna, =09The bible on learning theory is Mackintosh 1974 "Learning theory". It's slightly outdated in some areas, but it is the only place to start! cheers =09Joe On Sat, 23 Jan 1999, Anna Olsson wrote: > Dear all, >=20 > Does anybody know of a dictionary of learning psychology or a textbook th= at > explains learning psychology / learning theory in a way that is slightly > above undergraduate level but still accessible, i e contains explanations > of the terminology.=20 >=20 > As I'm getting desperate trying to go through some learning papers, any > help will be very much appreciated! >=20 > Yours sincerely >=20 > Anna Olsson > ----------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Anna Olsson > doktorand >=20 > Inst f=F6r husdjurens milj=F6 och h=E4lsa > Sveriges Lantbruksuniversitet > Box 234 > 532 23 Skara >=20 > Dept of Animal Environment and Health > Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences > P O Box 234 > S-532 23 Skara > Sweden >=20 > tel 46 (0)511 - 67245 (direct), 67218 (secretary) > fax 46 (0)511 - 67204 >=20 > e-mail anna.olsson@hmh.slu.se >=20 From: IN%"V.W.Koch@usda.gov" "V W Koch" 28-JAN-1999 16:49:48.90 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: pack behaviour I'm just guessing, but if there were not an established and accepted hierarchy in the pack (i.e., some members were looking to move up in rank), a member's injury might be seen as an opportunity, leading to an attack (which might involve multiple animals in a really unstable situation). I would also think such situations would be fairly rare. Wendy Koch v.w.koch@usda.gov From: IN%"L.Jacobson@mirinz.org.nz" "L.Jacobson" 28-JAN-1999 17:34:17.04 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca'" CC: Subj: RE: pack behavior In response to Wendy Koch's email: In the relatively stable groups of adult bulls our group has studied, the greatest rates of aggressive and sexually orientated behaviors (like mounting and being mounted) were in bulls in the mid-upper third of their group dominance hierarchies (but not at the top of the hierarchy). Although structures of single sex bovine social structures may or may not related well to dog pack social structures, perhaps those near the top of dominance hierarchies are more ready to make good of "moving up" opportunities, irrespective of the stability of their pack/herd social structures? ie could "middle orders" in dog packs be the dedicated social climbers, and therefore more likely to be the initiators of aggression against other wounded pack members? Purely anecdotally, in one of these bull groups, during a fight, a lowly ranked bull appeared to begin to get the better of a middle order bull (thanks to the hill slope). Another middle order bull then entered the fight very suddenly, knocking the lower ranked bull over. The 2 middle order bulls then together pushed the fallen low-order bull down the hill like a tandem bulldozer. The low-order bull eventually got the chance to standup and run away. It sure looked like "ganging up". If that's what it was, it would sort of fit with Wendy's suggestions. Perhaps a further method of social climbers to maintain/increase their individual dominance status that may promote multiple animals to join in on an attack? Laura Jacobson (new member to the Appl. Ethol. discussion group) l.jacobson@mirinz.org.nz Wendy Koch v.w.koch@usda.gov I'm just guessing, but if there were not an established and accepted hierarchy in the pack (i.e., some members were looking to move up in rank), a member's injury might be seen as an opportunity, leading to an attack (which might involve multiple animals in a really unstable situation). I would also think such situations would be fairly rare. From: IN%"C.Dwyer@ed.sac.ac.uk" "cathy dwyer" 29-JAN-1999 03:09:00.37 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Post-doc in Pig behaviour Three-year appointment in Pig Behaviour and Welfare An animal behaviour scientist is required for a project on the genetic background of aggressiveness in pigs. The aim of this project is to further develop an existing behavioural test for use in a commercial environment, and then use this test to study genetic parameters which are relevant for pig production. The successful candidate will have experience with handling pigs, a degree in animal behaviour or animal science or a related field, and ideally previous experience in organising and managing complex experiments. Those interested should contact either: The Personnel Unit, SAC Edinburgh, Edinburgh School of Agriculture Building, West Mains Road, Edinburgh EH9 3JG (Email: Personnel@ed.sac.ac.uk; Fax: (0131-535-4322 or phone (24 hour answering service: (0131) 535 4343) or Dr. Alistair Lawrence, Head of Animal Behavioural Sciences Department, SAC, Edinburgh (Email: a.lawrence@ed.sac.ac.uk). The closing date for applications is 12 February 1999. Please quote reference 3/99. From: IN%"lirio@uol.com.br" "Mauro Lantzman" 29-JAN-1999 21:01:13.15 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Attachment in dogs Hello, my name is Mauro Lantzman. I am a Brazilian veterinarian that works with applied ethology. My object of study are the mother-puppy relationships, interaction, patterns of attachment and exploratory behavior. I am searching researchers and studious to change ideas in this field. I am also seeking bibliographical references in this subject. My research tries to study the development process of social behavior of the dog having as theoretical base the attachment (Bowlby) concept . I thank to all in advance. -- Mauro Lantzman Veterinário, Clínica de Comportamento Animal e Homeopatia tel. (55) (11) 210-6315 comercial Sao Paulo Brazil página na internet: http://www.pet.vet.br From: IN%"donlay@iastate.edu" "Donald C Lay Jr." 31-JAN-1999 13:30:29.84 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: ISAE Regional Meeting Hello ISAE members. I have not heard any response to the latest query on a location for our meeting this summer, but I would like to throw this possiblity to the crowd. The SSR (Society for the Study of Reproduction) meetings are at the Univ. of Washington this year, in Pullman Washington. This would satisfy the on campus and at least close to Canada criteria, and it would allow folks interested in reproduction to go to both meetings. The SSR meeting is July 31st toAug. 3rd. Anyway, another option for you all to consider. Don Lay Dr. Donald C. Lay Jr. Applied Ethologist Iowa State University 2356 Kildee Hall Ames, IA 50011 donlay@iastate.edu 515-294-2088 From: IN%"donlay@iastate.edu" "Donald C Lay Jr." 31-JAN-1999 13:42:59.51 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Dog and Cat Folks Not here to harass but instead to ask for help! I teach both an applied ethology course and a companion animal course here at ISU. In addition, I am an academic advisor for more than 40 undergraduate students. I have many students ask about advanced degrees in companion animal behavior, but that is not my field and am out of touch with who is out there training students. I would like to compile a list of programs, contacts, areas of interest, etc. of folks that do have such a program. So if you train M.S. and Ph.D. students in Companion Animal Behavior, even if you are not looking for students now, could you respond directly to me and I will create a handout for these students. Thanks for your help. Don Lay Dr. Donald C. Lay Jr. Applied Ethologist Iowa State University 2356 Kildee Hall Ames, IA 50011 donlay@iastate.edu 515-294-2088 From: IN%"mplonsky@uwsp.edu" "Plonsky, Mark" 31-JAN-1999 16:34:27.61 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca'" CC: Subj: RE: Dog and Cat Folks Hi Donald, Take a look at http://www.uwsp.edu/acad/psych/dog/misc.htm#career and please repost your handout back to applied-ethology. Be well, Dr. P ----- Mark Plonsky, Ph.D. 715-346-3961 wk ----- ----- Psychology Dept. 715-346-2778 fx ----- ----- University of Wisconsin 715-344-0023 hm ----- ----- Stevens Point, WI 54481 mplonsky@uwsp.edu ----- ----- http://www.uwsp.edu/acad/psych/mphome.htm ----- -----Original Message----- From: Donald C Lay Jr. [mailto:donlay@iastate.edu] Sent: Sunday, January 31, 1999 1:42 PM To: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Subject: Dog and Cat Folks Not here to harass but instead to ask for help! I teach both an applied ethology course and a companion animal course here at ISU. In addition, I am an academic advisor for more than 40 undergraduate students. I have many students ask about advanced degrees in companion animal behavior, but that is not my field and am out of touch with who is out there training students. I would like to compile a list of programs, contacts, areas of interest, etc. of folks that do have such a program. So if you train M.S. and Ph.D. students in Companion Animal Behavior, even if you are not looking for students now, could you respond directly to me and I will create a handout for these students. Thanks for your help. Don Lay Dr. Donald C. Lay Jr. Applied Ethologist Iowa State University 2356 Kildee Hall Ames, IA 50011 donlay@iastate.edu 515-294-2088 From: IN%"donlay@iastate.edu" "Donald C Lay Jr." 1-FEB-1999 09:18:41.50 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Oops The message to the ISAE was supposed to indicate that the meeting was in Pullman, Washington at the Washington State Univ. Campus, NOT Univ. of Wash. Sorry about that. Don Dr. Donald C. Lay Jr. Applied Ethologist Iowa State University 2356 Kildee Hall Ames, IA 50011 donlay@iastate.edu 515-294-2088 From: IN%"donlay@iastate.edu" "Donald C Lay Jr." 1-FEB-1999 09:19:54.42 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Dog and Cat Folks again Several people have requested that I post the list on graduate programs in companion animals to the list. I will do that as soon as it is compiled, unless those submitting the information request that their name not be added in which case I will delete that name from the list. Hopefully, I'll get lots of info - several have come in already. Thanks, Don Dr. Donald C. Lay Jr. Applied Ethologist Iowa State University 2356 Kildee Hall Ames, IA 50011 donlay@iastate.edu 515-294-2088