From: IN%"Frank.Odberg@rug.ac.be" "Frank Odberg" 30-JUN-1997 11:45:45.16 To: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Danger! tibs! That's an interesting and funny way of analysing things. To some extent it's called "social intelligence" in psychology. Being aware of the meta-communication you give and take into account how the other person might interpret what you say, also in function of her/his background. Even only at the level of concepts (and I'm now not talking about the non-verbal communication), a lot of redundant discussions, quarrels, could be avoided by first agreeing on what one is talking about precisely (what's behind the word). And then apply Occam's razor: if one can describe a phenomenon with one (existing) term, one should examine if it is useful to invent more, new, or less precise ones. If on top of it one misses the additional signals, things can degenerate completely. I agree with you that quite a bit of redundant discussions on this net could have been avoided, especially in that new field of behavioural therapy or about "welfare". Our limbic system and reptilian brain are not completely "bad". They can care for those additional signals which make communication more precise or softer. They can -still- give us a lot of happiness in life, but are also responsible for a big mess. K.Lorenz called us a "jeopardized creature", "l'etre du risque"... PS To finish, the association I spontaneously made between "interesting" and "fun" in the first line induces me to send the following lines. Scientists have been known to be "curious like children" all through their life and ENJOY science. Is it sufficiently still like that? I'm wondering. Most research now depend from project grants. One nearly has to say what one will find in advance in order to get the money. Are there still countries where scientists get (some) "free" money, just to "play around" and "try out" things, without (financial, administrative) justification? Is something going wrong?... A few words from an interview of Agnes Ullman (who succeeded Jacques Monod at the Institut Pasteur in Paris) when she retired herself last year: "...Si un jeune n'a pas de resultats au bout de six mois, sa carriere est coupee. On ne vous laisse plus d'etre curieux, imaginatif, original. Cette competition, c'est odieux. On a oublie que la recherche est un metier a risque." One has forgotten that research is a job with the inherent risk of finding nothing. Are there two sorts of research: the inquisitive one and the "intellectual Tailor-system" one? Well, I hope at least your message will stimulate enjoyable brainstorming! Prof.Dr. Frank O. Odberg University of Ghent Dpt. of Animal Nutrition, Genetics, Production and Ethology Heidestraat 19 B-9820 Merelbeke Belgium tel: +32-(0)9-2521941 fax: 5304 From: IN%"pkabai@ns.univet.hu" "Kabai Peter" 30-JUN-1997 11:59:50.23 To: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Danger! tibs! Dear Jon, the word used in telephone greetings was actually not invented. Originally, "hallo", is an old Hungarian word meaning something like "I hear you". Hallo was suggested to Edison by the Hungarian born engineer, inventor of the telephone center concept, Mr. Puskas. Later hallo mutated to hello in the English speaking world, but you can still find hallo (or hullo, as it was pronounced) in the English dictionaries. Ahoy, interestingly, is also an existing word, it is used as greeting in Check (and maybe Slovakian?). Though it is just a bit (and not tib, really) of detail, it may matter, because it shows, that communication, information exchange rather evolves through mutation, recombination, selection and drift, than by inventions. A hallo from Hungary by Peter Kabai *********************************************** On Fri, 27 Jun 1997, Jon Watts wrote: > Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 12:35:13 -0600 (CST) > From: Jon Watts > To: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca > Subject: Danger! tibs! > > I saw a interesting biography of Alexander Graham Bell on tv a few nights > ago. More interesting than the program though, was something the anchorman > said when it was finished. I don't even know for sure if it is true, but > apparently the word "hello" was invented in the last century by Thomas > Edison, as something to say when answering the telephone. Bell himself > favoured the word "ahoy" for this purpose. From: IN%"apn6mav@south-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk" "M.A. VARLEY" 30-JUN-1997 12:00:05.99 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Mike Varley: Change of address Dear All For all of you who know me, from July 1st I will be working for a new organisation. This is Nutec Ltd., Eastern Avenue, Lichfield, Staffordshire, UK. I will obtain a new e-mail address also shortly and will resubscribe to the listserver. All Regards Mike Varley Dr Mike Varley B.Sc.,Ph.D.,C.Biol.,F.I.Biol. Department of Animal Physiology and Nutrition The University of Leeds Leeds LS2 9JT; tel 01132 333062, Fax 01132 333072 Mobile 0864 102531; apn6mav@leeds.ac.uk Visit with us at: http://www.leeds.ac.uk/apn/apn.html From: IN%"lboyle@DAIRY.TEAGASC.IE" "LAURA BOYLE" 30-JUN-1997 12:19:58.11 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Vomiting sows Hi all, During some recent observations on the rising and lying behaviour of individually housed (basket crates) sows at feeding, I happened to notice several sows of different parities vomiting up their feeds and then re-eating it (in one house of 40 sows at least four were doing it). As the lying and rising behaviour was recorded for 3 feeding bouts I was able to keep an eye on the vomiting behaviour, the same animals consistently performed it after each meal. A walk through the house a few weeks later showed that the same sows were still doing it. I don't think the animals were physically ill as they kept their food down once they had eaten it for the second time and the stockmen noticed nothing wrong with them. The sows definately appeared to force the food up by visible contractions of their abdomens, however, I did see one sow, whom I initially thought was a 'vomiter', filling her mouth with feed and then spilling it in specific puddles on the floor. She would then return to her trough, lick it clean and go to her meal on the floor to begin again. Maybe the reason for this strange behaviour is well known but nobody here had heard of it and not one of the men working on the farm had ever noticed it before. However I am not surprised by this as it is difficult to see what the sows are doing when their heads are down under the troughs, initially I thought they were licking up spilt feed. I'm not an ethologist but would this have anything to do with the problem of unsatisfied appetite in gestating sows? Perhaps some animals have discovered vomiting as a way of prolonging feeding? I must admit that I was horrified when I saw this and I would be very grateful to anyone who could shed some light on it. Laura P.S. Sows in Moorepark are fed a wet feed twice per day. From: IN%"galindof@servidor.unam.mx" 30-JUN-1997 16:30:45.37 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: effects of anesthesia on behaviour Hello everyone, A couple of colleagues have told me (separately) that while doing field work and capturing sea lions and tapyrs, respectively, they have noticed that after the effect of anesthesia has passed the behaviour of the animals changes noticeably.Specifically maternal and social behaviour. I have been looking for literature on this topic without much success. Has anyone come across anything like this ? Best wishes Francisco Galindo Dr. Francisco Galindo Depto. de Etologia y Fauna Fac. de Medicina Veterinaria Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico Coyoacan D.F. 04510 From: IN%"FisherA@agresearch.cri.nz" "Fisher, Andrew" 30-JUN-1997 18:05:41.42 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied ethology" CC: Subj: RE: effects of anesthesia on behaviour Hello All Before I address Francisco's query, I should say that I have recently rejoined Applied-Ethology. I finished my PhD in Ireland last year, and, since December, have been working with Lindsay Matthews' group at the Animal Behaviour and Welfare Research Centre, AgResearch, Ruakura Research Centre, New Zealand. My interests- stress physiology and immunology, farm animal behaviour and welfare. Ketamine is a arylcyclohexylamine dissociative anaesthetic. It is a ketone derivative of phencyclidine- an hallucinogenic substance of abuse. Ketamine also has potential hallucinogenic properties linked to its ability to induce dissociative anaesthesia. Dissociative anaesthetics unlink external stimuli (painful prodcedures) from internal cognitive processes. Usually they are used in combination with some form of analgesic/sedative/tranquillizing agent such as xylazine or diazepam (Valium). There is some evidence that ketamine can induce behavioural changes which persist beyond the duration of anaesthesia. Refs. Etude clinique des eidolies hallucinosiques recurrentes apres anesthesie par la ketamine, chez les carnivores domestiques. A propos de 39 cas cliniques. [Clinical study of recurrent hallucinations after ketamine anaesthesia in dogs and cats: 39 cases.] Pageat, P. Pratique Medicale and Chirurgicale de l'Animal de Compagnie. 1986, 21: 3, 185-190. Altered behaviour in the progeny of rats exposed to ketamine, a N-methyl-D-aspartate receptor blocker. Oye I, Froynes W, Gloersen G, Nafstad I. Pharmacol Toxicol 1993 Oct 73:4 240-242. NMDA receptor function and human cognition: the effects of ketamine in healthy volunteers. Malhotra AK, Pinals DA, Weingartner H, Sirocco K, Missar CD, Pickar D, Breier A. Neuropsychopharmacology 1996 May 14:5 301-307. Andrew Andrew Fisher ABWRC Ruakura Agricultural Research Centre Private Bag 3123 Hamilton New Zealand Ph +64 7 8385579 Fax +64 7 8385727 email fishera@agresearch.cri.nz ---------- > From: galindof > > > Hello everyone, > > A couple of colleagues have told me (separately) that while doing > field work and capturing sea lions and tapyrs, respectively, they > have noticed that after the effect of anesthesia has passed the > behaviour of the animals changes noticeably.Specifically maternal and > social behaviour. > > I have been looking for literature on this topic without much > success. Has anyone come across anything like this ? > > Best wishes > > Francisco Galindo > > > > > Dr. Francisco Galindo > Depto. de Etologia y Fauna > Fac. de Medicina Veterinaria > Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico > Coyoacan D.F. 04510 > From: IN%"Kate.Littin.1@uni.massey.ac.nz" "Kate Littin" 1-JUL-1997 15:08:31.33 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: vomiting sows Hi All, with regard to Laura Boyle's post, don't captive chimpanzees display a similar behaviour (I forget the correct term)? In this context is it considered a stereotypy? I don't know enough to comment further but maybe some primatologists could help. Regards, Kate Littin. ================================== = Kate Littin = = Dept. Physiology & Anatomy = = Massey University = = Private Bag 11-222 = = Palmerston North = = New Zealand (Aotearoa) = = ph +64 06 3504251 = = Kate.Littin.1@uni.massey.ac.nz = ================================== From: IN%"cinderwolf@earthlink.net" "CinderWlf" 2-JUL-1997 20:36:01.80 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Introduction Greetings. In brief; I read the article "Phenomena, Comment and Notes" in the February 1997 issue of the Smithsonian magazine. The article I read created a hunger for information about consciousness in nonhumans. Through this insatiable craving I found this Ethology group. I'm a dog owner, lover, and admirer. Now you know why I'm here. From: IN%"Frank.Odberg@rug.ac.be" "Frank Odberg" 3-JUL-1997 10:48:40.95 To: IN%"Kate.Littin.1@uni.massey.ac.nz" "Kate Littin" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: vomiting sows See Lang, E.M.(1943): Schweiz.Arch.Tierheilkde 85, 477-481 In German on Melursus ursinus Portielje, A.F.J.(1942): Psychiat.Neurol.Bl. 46, 192-205 In Dutch on a gorilla examining vomited parasites Prof.Dr. Frank O. Odberg University of Ghent Dpt. of Animal Nutrition, Genetics, Production and Ethology Heidestraat 19 B-9820 Merelbeke Belgium tel: +32-(0)9-2521941 fax: 5304 On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Kate Littin wrote: > Hi All, > with regard to Laura Boyle's post, don't captive chimpanzees display a similar behaviour (I forget the correct term)? In this context is it considered a stereotypy? I don't know enough to comment further but maybe some primatologists could help. > > Regards, Kate Littin. > > > > > ================================== > = Kate Littin = > = Dept. Physiology & Anatomy = > = Massey University = > = Private Bag 11-222 = > = Palmerston North = > = New Zealand (Aotearoa) = > = ph +64 06 3504251 = > = Kate.Littin.1@uni.massey.ac.nz = > ================================== > From: IN%"reedd@cjnetworks.com" 3-JUL-1997 13:20:39.09 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Ethology" CC: Subj: Dead List???? Is it just me or has this list come to a screaching halt? I understand people it's summer people are on vacation, no one is at school anymore but come on, does that mean we have to die? Ok I'm giving a subject that I know several of you have a strong oppionion on and I am curious to hear professional and non professional thoughts on the subjuct: *animal compassion, rescue, and altruism.* Lets hear it, write to the list start a conversation for learning and thought, thats what we are all here for! MAREN A. DAVIS Dept. of Personal Intrest Topeka, KS reedd@cjnetworks.com From: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" 3-JUL-1997 15:03:59.14 To: IN%"reedd@cjnetworks.com" "Reed Davis" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Ethology" Subj: Nailed to its perch? Take it easy Maren, I don't think the list is dead. It is just resting (very obscure humorous reference). I'll take a stance on the subject of altruism. Altruism, if I remember right, is defined as something like an act which benefits the recipient but requires a cost from the actor. We could put some constraints upon that to define what we might accept as an unequivocal act of altruism by an animal. Suppose we say that true animal altruism involves 1) a cost to the actor 2) a benefit to the recipient. But that the animal did this act by free choice rather than constrained circumstances, was unrelated to the recipient and had no history of past association or other circumstances that would lead it to some expectation of a reciprocal payoff at a later time. If those would be considered suitable criteria for an act of unquestionable altruism then I will claim that there is no example of apparent altruism that you wouldn't be able to question on one of these factors. I'm not going to go so far as to say that "pure" altruism doesn't exist in animals. Just that you would have a hard time to prove it beyond any doubt. You might also take a hard look at human behaviour and conclude that altruism might not be too common in humans either. Jon ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Watts (___) ) ) University of Saskatchewan |o o|___________/ ( Dept of Herd Medicine O \#/ | ) and Theriogenology |bser| | Statistical | ( Western College of Vet. Med. |vati| | analysis | ) 52 Campus Drive |ons.| \___________/| *& Saskatoon ------ || || %$#@ S7N 1B4 / \ || || ^*@*~ Canada &^%%#$@ wattsjon@duke.usask.ca "The Holy Cow" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Reed Davis wrote: > Is it just me or has this list come to a screaching halt? I > understand people it's summer people are on vacation, no one is at > school anymore but come on, does that mean we have to die? > Ok I'm giving a subject that I know several of you have a strong > oppionion on and I am curious to hear professional and non professional > thoughts on the subjuct: *animal compassion, rescue, and altruism.* > Lets hear it, write to the list start a conversation for learning > and thought, thats what we are all here for! > > MAREN A. DAVIS > Dept. of Personal Intrest > Topeka, KS > reedd@cjnetworks.com > > From: IN%"Susanne.Waiblinger@vu-wien.ac.at" "Susanne Waiblinger" 4-JUL-1997 07:12:04.14 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: group size in dogs Dear all, being asked from a kollegue, whether 30 to 40m dogs in one group together is too much, I searched for references in the literature without great success (I admit that I didn't search very intensively). I thought of a limit between 15-25 dogs, optimal managed, of course, but found that dogs in animal homes are kept up to 30 without greater problems. Does anyone have information on recommended group size and is there a critical size? Further there is a special question: What's about a high percentage of not castrated male (about 80percent) in such a large group? I would be glad for any information or literature. Thanks, Susanne =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Veterinaermedizinische Universitaet Wien Institut f=FCr Tierhaltung und Tierschutz Josef Baumann Gasse 1 A-1210 Wien Tel.:0043/1/25077 4905 Fax: 0043/1/25077 4990 email: Susanne.Waiblinger@vu-wien.ac.at =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From: IN%"mkhd@wcic.org" 4-JUL-1997 14:16:51.09 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: group size in dogs --Boundary_(ID_y7H3qW1WnqBFsPMphlioPw) Content-type: text/plain; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353; x-mac-type=54455854; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Susanne Waiblinger wrote: > Dear all, > being asked from a kollegue, whether 30 to 40m dogs in one group > together is too much, I searched for references in the literature > without great success (I admit that I didn't search very > intensively). I thought of a limit between 15-25 dogs, optimal > managed, of course, but found that dogs in animal homes are kept up > to 30 without greater problems. > Does anyone have information on recommended group size and is there > a critical size? > Further there is a special question: What's about a high percentage > of not castrated male (about 80percent) in such a large group? > I would be glad for any information or literature. > Thanks, Susanne > ======================================== > Veterinaermedizinische Universitaet Wien > Institut für Tierhaltung und Tierschutz > Josef Baumann Gasse 1 > A-1210 Wien > Tel.:0043/1/25077 4905 > Fax: 0043/1/25077 4990 > email: Susanne.Waiblinger@vu-wien.ac.at > ======================================== Dear Susanne I happen to have done my masters thesis on the behaviour of dogs in a pension with a group keeping system that had an unusually large, mixed-sexed group of appr. 100 dogs in the run. The dogs very well got along together; they even were fed in the group. Of course, it is absolutely necessary the dogs be supervised at any time in the run by an experienced person capable of controlling each groupmember. As dogs (particularly males) usually settle intraspecific aggressiv confrontations by ritualized behaviors, animals get scarcely wounded. Of crucial importance from the point of animal welfare aspects is the introduction of new charges into such a large group of residents. Besides coping with an unfamiliar environment and separation from its owner, the newcomer is confronted with immediate inspections by the dogs already in the run. Therefore, such introductions represent a situation of additional social stress. The amount of stess experienced by the animal depends on its sex, age, social self-confidence and sociability, and its shelter experience. Also, it is possible for the person introducing the dog, to ease the stressful situation during entry and to specifically influence the way the individual newcomer will integrate. Albeit this 'shock' at entry, dogs accomodate quickly. Within 3-4 days, both male and female dogs show genderspecific behavioural changes indicative for an integration process. Therefore, keeping 100 well socialized dogs together in one group seems to work out fine. Another note on group size: The inherited ability of dogs to organize themselves in packs presumably is overtaxed when kept within a group of about 50 or more animals (field observations on wolves find that usually packs consist of less than 8 animals because of aggression that arises between pack members). Yet, in shelters keeping their residents in groups of 10 to 30 dogs, these animals might show stronger tendencies to establish a social hierarchy. Then one would expect more intraspecific aggression to establish the hierarchy, and the highest ranking dogs might compete with the supervisor for the alpha position. In general, intact males are very active in interacting with conspecifics, mainly addressing a lot of courtship behaviour towards the females. Therefore, to diminish the rivalery between the males, and to relief the social pressure directed towards the females, it is thought to be important for shelter with group keeping systems to have about equal numbers of both sexes in the run. I do not consider large group keeping suitable for castrated males as they usually get molested by both intact males and female animals. Literatur: - S M Sonderegger & D C Turner: Introducing dogs into kennels: prediction of social tendencies to facilitate integration, Animal Welfare 1996, 5: 391-404. For reprints please contact: turniet@wild.unizh.ch - Contact me, if you're interested in a copy of the original thesis (in German). Best regards, Sonja -- ************************************************************************* Sonja Doll-Sonderegger MSC Zoologist/Ethologist Consultancy for behavior problems in dogs fax: (317) 463 9628 e-mail: mkhd@wcic.org ************************************************************************* --Boundary_(ID_y7H3qW1WnqBFsPMphlioPw) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Susanne Waiblinger wrote:
Dear all,
being asked from a kollegue, whether 30 to 40m dogs in one group
together is too much, I searched for references in the literature
without great  success (I admit that I didn't search very
intensively). I thought of a limit between 15-25 dogs, optimal
managed, of course, but found that dogs in animal homes are kept up
to 30 without greater problems.
 Does anyone have information on recommended group size and is there
a critical size?
Further there is a special question: What's about a high percentage
of not castrated male (about 80percent) in such a large group?
  I would be glad for any information or literature.
Thanks, Susanne
========================================
Veterinaermedizinische Universitaet Wien
Institut für Tierhaltung und Tierschutz
Josef Baumann Gasse 1
A-1210 Wien
Tel.:0043/1/25077 4905
Fax: 0043/1/25077 4990
email: Susanne.Waiblinger@vu-wien.ac.at
========================================
      Dear Susanne

I happen to have done my masters thesis on the behaviour of dogs in a pension with a group keeping system that had an unusually large, mixed-sexed group of appr. 100 dogs in the run. The dogs very well got along together; they even were fed in the group. Of course, it is absolutely necessary the dogs be supervised at any time in the run by an experienced person capable of controlling each groupmember. As dogs (particularly males) usually settle intraspecific aggressiv confrontations by ritualized behaviors, animals get scarcely wounded.
Of crucial importance from the point of animal welfare aspects is the introduction of new charges into such a large group of residents. Besides coping with an unfamiliar environment and separation from its owner, the newcomer is confronted with immediate inspections by the dogs already in the run. Therefore, such introductions represent a situation of additional social stress. The amount of stess experienced by the animal depends on its sex, age, social self-confidence and sociability, and its shelter experience. Also, it is possible for the person introducing the dog, to ease the stressful situation during entry and to specifically influence the way the individual newcomer will integrate.
Albeit this 'shock' at entry, dogs accomodate quickly. Within 3-4 days, both male and female dogs show genderspecific behavioural changes indicative for an integration process. Therefore, keeping 100 well socialized dogs together in one group seems to work out fine.

Another note on group size: The inherited ability of dogs to organize themselves in packs presumably is overtaxed when kept within a group of about  50 or more animals (field observations on wolves find that usually packs consist of less than 8 animals because of aggression that arises between pack members). Yet, in shelters keeping their residents in groups of 10 to 30 dogs, these animals might show stronger tendencies to establish a social hierarchy. Then one would expect more intraspecific aggression to establish the hierarchy, and the highest ranking dogs might compete with the supervisor for the alpha position.

In general, intact males are very active in interacting with conspecifics, mainly addressing a lot of courtship behaviour towards the females. Therefore, to diminish the rivalery between the males, and to relief the social pressure directed towards the females, it is thought to be important for shelter with group keeping systems to have about equal numbers of both sexes in the run.
I do not consider large group keeping suitable for castrated males as they usually get molested by both intact males and female animals.
 
Literatur:

Best regards,

Sonja

--
*************************************************************************
Sonja Doll-Sonderegger
MSC Zoologist/Ethologist
Consultancy for behavior problems in dogs

fax: (317) 463 9628
e-mail: mkhd@wcic.org
*************************************************************************
  --Boundary_(ID_y7H3qW1WnqBFsPMphlioPw)-- From: IN%"reedd@cjnetworks.com" 5-JUL-1997 09:17:34.09 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Ethology" CC: Subj: Altruism Altrusim: For our purposes may be defined as selfdestructivebehavior performed for the benifit f others. An example of chimpanzee for non kin. a group of Gombe chimps were being followed by researcher Geza Teleki. Geza forgot his lunch and tried to knock some fruit down with a stick while the chimps fed in nearby trees. After some time of unsuccessful efforts and asolescent chimp collected some fruit and gave it to the researcher. This is altruism by any deffinition, since the human and the chimp are not related. From: IN%"Paul.Koene@ETHO.VH.WAU.NL" "paul koene" 6-JUL-1997 05:14:21.31 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: ISAE: workshop on zoo animal behaviour Dear All I have been asked to organise a workshop on zoo animal behaviour at the ISAE meeting in Prague, on Wednesday 13th August (from 16.00 to 18.00). In the Zoo workshop I would like to discuss the benefits of zoos for applied ethologists (knowledge about enrichment, conservation, natural behaviour) and the ISAE applied ethologists for the zoos (knowledge of stereotypies, adaptation - physiological, immunological), i.e. the function of doing behavioural research in zoos (especially for ISAE members). As a title I like to quote Heini Hediger partly in the following title Zoos: museums of behaviour, between nature and farm? Some background information on the subject can be found on our website http://www.zod.wau.nl/~www-vh/etho/ISAE-ZOO.html Other topics that may be covered are: Behaviour research and conservation Behaviour research and re-introduction The function of zoos Abnormal behaviour in the zoo. The specific topic depends on you. For now I introduce the subject shortly. Prof. van Hooff is one of the speakers. If you can add a new approach or ideas or even something completely different about zoo animal behaviour, please react. I would like to know if you will like to contribute to the workshop. Please send me an e-mail. Yours Paul From: IN%"Beatrice.DeSmet@rug.ac.be" "Beatrice De Smet" 6-JUL-1997 07:34:14.53 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: hearing range of gerbils and guinea pigs As veterinary surgeon in practice, I got the following question from a client. She bought a device to remove all vermin from her house. It is using ultrasound in the range of 30000- 65.000 Hz at 130 decibel. But she breeds gerbils and guinea pigs. Will this cause a welfare problem for those animals and which reactions does she need to look for if they are distraught? Many thanks. Beatrice De Smet UZ Gent De Pintelaan 185 9000 Gent bdesmet@rug.ac.be From: IN%"brueckma@psycho2.psychologie.uni-bremen.de" 7-JUL-1997 02:57:00.48 To: IN%"Beatrice.DeSmet@rug.ac.be" "Beatrice De Smet", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: hearing range of gerbils and guinea pigs At 03:32 PM 6/7/97 DST), Beatrice De Smet wrote: > >As veterinary surgeon in practice, I got the following question from a >client. She bought a device to remove all vermin from her house. It is >using ultrasound in the range of 30000- 65.000 Hz at 130 decibel. But she >breeds gerbils and guinea pigs. >Will this cause a welfare problem for those animals and which reactions >does she need to look for if they are distraught? > The auditory range of Mongoian gerbils is from 200 to 32000 Hz with a maximum auditory sensitivity at 3000 - 6000 Hz. They can produce sounds up to 150000 Hz with a maximum of 106 dB, though. I don't think the ultrasound device will do any harm to the gerbils. For further information see Finck and Soufouglu (1966). Auditory sensitivity of the Mongolian gerbil. Journal of Auditory Research 6: 313-319. Greetings, Vera Brueckmann Inst. for Psychology and Cognition Research University of Bremen Grazer Str. 4 D-28359 Bremen Germany From: IN%"D.Goodwin@soton.ac.uk" "debbie goodwin" 7-JUL-1997 04:01:13.52 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: WALTHAM Symposium: The role of the Horse in Europe The deadline for submission of POSTER ABSTRACTS is 21st of July. So you still have two weeks to submit! Futher details and draft programme are available via http://www.soton.ac.uk/~azi/symp.htm Registration costs £30.00 for Delegates and £15.00 for poster authors. (This includes lunch and refreshments). Registration is via Nell Davidson at WALTHAM +44 (0)1664 415530. There is a call for posters on all aspects of horse behaviour, management and human-horse interactions. Poster Abstract details are available at http://www.soton.ac.uk/~azi/abstract.htm or via Debbie Goodwin (address below). Abstracts should be submitted to Debbie Goodwin and all abstracts will be refereed. The Symposium is dedicated to understanding the behaviour of the horse, the effects of domestication on horse behaviour and welfare, and horse-human interactions and will be held on Wednesday 17th September 1997, at the St. George Swallow Hotel in Harrogate N.Yorkshire, UK Session themes include: The Role of Ethology in Horse Management and Welfare. The Economic Importance of the Horse to the EU. Exploring the Complexity of the Horse-Human relationship. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Further details from Debbie Goodwin D.Goodwin PhD Anthrozoology Institute Biodiversity and Ecology University of Southampton, Southampton SO16 7PX, UK. D.Goodwin@soton.ac.uk http://www.soton.ac.uk/~azi/azi.htm From: IN%"Petra.Mertens@lrz.uni-muenchen.de" 7-JUL-1997 05:08:37.78 To: IN%"Susanne.Waiblinger@vu-wien.ac.at" "Susanne Waiblinger" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: group size in dogs Dear Susanne, In your search please remember that group size is not the only factor - the size of the enclosure is also critical. Large groups will start to split up. And there s no problem with this if the dogs can avoid each other. Actually, it is essential to provide enough space for avoidance of a dominant dog in any group housing facility, independent of group size. The number of unneutered males is not a problem per se if a staff memeber is present to make sure that bitches don t get into heat. Neutering them just before introduction will not help. In my experience, 30 or 40 dogs can be kept together - depending on kennell size. Even if it is a mixed group of males and females (most dogs brought to the shelters are un-neutered, large mixed breeds). For details see my thesis (Petra Mertens: Die Haltung von Hunden in Tierheimen -verhaltens- und tierschutzrelevate Aspekte der Einzel- und Gruppenhaltung) Best wishes, Petra > Dear all, > being asked from a kollegue, whether 30 to 40m dogs in one group > together is too much, I searched for references in the literature > without great success (I admit that I didn't search very > intensively). I thought of a limit between 15-25 dogs, optimal > managed, of course, but found that dogs in animal homes are kept up > to 30 without greater problems. > Does anyone have information on recommended group size and is there > a critical size? > Further there is a special question: What's about a high percentage > of not castrated male (about 80percent) in such a large group? > I would be glad for any information or literature. > Thanks, Susanne > ======================================== > Veterinaermedizinische Universitaet Wien > Institut fuer Tierhaltung und Tierschutz > Josef Baumann Gasse 1 > A-1210 Wien > Tel.:0043/1/25077 4905 > Fax: 0043/1/25077 4990 > email: Susanne.Waiblinger@vu-wien.ac.at > ======================================== > From: IN%"William_R_STRICKLIN@umail.umd.edu" 7-JUL-1997 09:21:42.07 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: dogs, domestication & disappointment Dear All, After reading the popular press reports (and email discussion), I found the _Science_ article, "Multiple and Ancient Origins of the Domestic Dog," rather mundane and disappointing. The report: 1) gives considerable support to the position that wolves were the ancestors of dogs. (But interestingly - it also shows equal mitochondrial DNA sequence variation among wolves as among breeds of dogs.) 2) While the Abstract states, "The sequence divergence within this clade (most dogs) suggested that dogs originated more than 100,000 years before the present," the text includes discussion stating, "such estimates may be inflated by unobserved multiple substitutions at hypervariable sites." Additional discussion states, "the sequence divergence within clade I clearly imples an origin more ancient than the 14,000 years before present." (Yes, I think that this statement makes a lot of sense re domestication. I would think it quite possible that some genetic divergence preceded the stage in the process that is typically referred as "domestication." However, I rather doubt that this divergence occurred as much as 135,000 years ago.) 3) The authors acknowledge that something significant did occur in the "recent" past of humans and dogs in their statement, "Conceivably, the change around 10,000 to 15,000 years ago from nomadic hunter-gatherer societies to more sedentary agricultural populations centers may have imposed new selective regimes on dogs that resulted in marked phenotypic divergence from wild wolves." (I find it interesting that these primarily molecular geneticists use the phrase "new selective regimes" as their sole explanation for such a significant event. The point that I have been trying to make is that if geneticists can find the molecular bases for the rapid change that occurred ten to 15 thousand years ago, then real progress will be made!) I still believe it quite probable that the author(s) were culpable participant(s) in the rather sensational press release(s) that preceded the publication of the article in _Science_. Ray Stricklin University of Maryland W. Ray STRICKLIN Email:W_RAY_STRICKLIN@umail.umd.edu (ws31) Phone:51382 From: IN%"J.T.Lumeij@ukg.dgk.ruu.nl" "Sjeng Lumeij" 7-JUL-1997 10:09:57.50 To: IN%"Ethology@segate.sunet.se" CC: Subj: 3rd INTERNATIONAL RAPTOR BIOMEDICAL CONFERENCE FIRST ANNOUNCEMENT AND CALL FOR PAPERS 3rd International Raptor Biomedical Conference August 9-11, 1998, Midrand, South Africa. The 3rd International Raptor Biomedical Conference is the third in a series of which the first one was held in London (1980) and the second in St. Paul, Minnesota (1988). The conference will be held on August 9-11, 1998 in conjunction with the V World Conference on Birds of Prey and Owls (August 4-11) at the ESKOM Training and Exhibition Centre in Midrand, South Africa, and is planned close to the International Ornithological Conference of BirdLife International (August 16-22). The main sessions for the symposium are I. Pathology and Microbiology (chaired by J.E. Cooper) , II. Environmental Disease and Mortality Factors (chairperson tbd) , III. Management of Captive Raptors and Falconry Birds (chairperson tbd), IV. Medicine and Therapeutics (chaired by J.T. Lumeij) , V. Surgery and Anaesthesia (chaired by P.T. Redig) , VI. Breeding and Genetics (chairperson tbd), VII. Rehabilitation and post-release monitoring and survival (chaired by D. Csermely) , VII. Legal Aspects (chaired by M. Cooper). Wet labs on orthopedic techniques and rehabilitation are planned preceding the two day conference on Sunday August 9th. At the conference an abstract book will be provided. Full length papers will be refereed and published after the symposium in a book format. Suggestions for papers and practical training sessions (wet labs), including an informative 100 word abstract and suggested presentation time should be submitted to the Chairman of the Scientific Committee before November 15th ,1997. Speakers will be notified shortly after the Scientific Committee has decided on the definitive program on December 1st, 1997. Deadline for full length manuscripts is March 31st , 1998. The referees will notify speakers about major changes which have to be made in the manuscript before May 1st. The deadline for abstracts for the abstract book which will be provided at the conference is June 15th , 1998. The referees will give their comments within one week after the conference and authors will be given the opportunity to correct their manuscripts and include information raised during the conference before September 15th , 1998. The conference book is scheduled to be published by the end of 1998. The Organizing Committee is chaired by P.T. Redig from the Raptor Center at the University of Minnesota (The Raptor Center, 1920 Fitch Avenue, St. Paul, Minnesota 55108, USA, fax + 612 624 8740, E-mail: redig001@maroon.tc.umn.edu, ) and communications are managed by N. Forbes from the UK (Clockhouse Veterinary Hospital, Landsdown Veterinary Practice, Stroud, Gloucestershire GL53JD ENGLAND, fax 0453-756065, E-mail: drhawk@cix.compulink.co.uk). Those who want to receive further information on registration, hotel accommodation, the social program and field trips, please contact Local Arrangements Manager Dr. Gerhard H. Verdoorn, P.O. Box 72155, Parkview 2122, South Africa, Tel +27-11-646-4629/8617, Fax + 27-11-646-4631, E-mail: nesher@global.co.za.. He can also be contacted for information on the Vth World Conference on Birds of Prey and Owls (August 4-11). For information on the International Ornithological Conference (August 16-11) please contact BirdLife South Africa in Durban, Dr. Aldo Berutti E-mail: aldo@birdlife.org.za. Abstracts for suggested papers should be submitted in triplicate by mail before November 15thto the Chairman of the Scientific Committee, 3rd International Raptor Biomedical Conference, J.T. Lumeij, Department Avian and Exotic Animal Medicine, Utrecht University, Yalelaan 8, 3584 CM Utrecht, The Netherlands. Fax +30-2518126, E-mail: J.T. Lumeij@ukg.dgk.ruu.nl. Authors should indicate their name, postal address, fax number and E-mail number). From: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" 7-JUL-1997 11:07:24.71 To: IN%"William_R_STRICKLIN@umail.umd.edu" "ws31" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: dogs, domestication & disappointment The authors of that paper appear to be "lumpers" rather than "splitters". I don't completely follow how their conclusions arise from the phylogenetic analysis. They claim that at least 4 techniques of analysis supported grouping the dog samples into 4 clades, but did not say which were responsible for the groupings actually reported. At a quick glance Fig. 1. gives the impression that Clade 1. (most dogs) might actually be 3 clades. There are also a couple of anomalies that seem to defy the general sense of the analysis. (ie. in some cases representatives of a single dog breed, eg German shepherd and Norwegian elkhound at least, show up in more than one clade. Does this suggest that the analysis might not be all it's been cracked up to be? Or does it just mean that their paper is too difficult for an outsider like me (without even a PhD!) to understand? Jon ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Watts (___) ) ) University of Saskatchewan |o o|___________/ ( Dept of Herd Medicine O \#/ | ) and Theriogenology |bser| | Statistical | ( Western College of Vet. Med. |vati| | analysis | ) 52 Campus Drive |ons.| \___________/| *& Saskatoon ------ || || %$#@ S7N 1B4 / \ || || ^*@*~ Canada &^%%#$@ wattsjon@duke.usask.ca "The Holy Cow" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IN%"joseph.stookey@sask.usask.ca" 7-JUL-1997 12:18:39.75 To: IN%"'applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca'@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: IN%"STOOKEY@sask.usask.ca" Subj: ISAE abstract of 1997 North American Regional Meeting Dear All, Recently the abstracts of the 1997 North American ISAE Regional meeting in Lennoxville were sent electronically to this network by Jeff Rushen, one of the organizers of the meetings. Such postings are usually long and can easily get deleted or "lost". In trying to find a suitable place for "storage and retrieval" of the abstracts we have also put the abstracts onto our web page. You can access the abstracts at: http://duke.usask.ca/~stookey/ Several of the presenters have included slides with their abstracts which I scanned and included with the abstracts; something that could not be easily done on e-mail. I think the slides add an extra component of information that is unavailable in the text. It may even be possible to attach video clips from a presentations and attach them to the abstract! (Should we try that Suzanne?) Maybe a similar method of posting abstracts on the web, complete with slides, sounds and video clips, could be done for the upcoming Prague meetings! Someone in my department suggested that it is technically possible to hold an "electronic poster session" complete with abstracts, pictures, videos, etc. on the Web! Apparently you can set a time aside for questions by the "viewers" and answers by the presenters. That ought to save travel funds! Anyway, I hope you find the abstracts useful and if you have any comments or suggestions for posting abstracts I would appreciate hearing from you. Sincerely, Joe ======================= Joseph M. Stookey Department of Herd Medicine and Theriogenology Western College of Veterinary Medicine University of Saskatchewan Saskatoon, Saskatchewan S7N 5B4 Canada From: IN%"rushenj@EM.AGR.CA" "Jeff Rushen" 8-JUL-1997 07:24:28.54 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: animal welfare symposium abstracts The abstracts of the animal welfare symposium that was held at Lennoxville in June can be perused (in English et en francais) at: http://res.agr.ca/lennox/comporte/home.htm We plan to put the full text of the presentations on the web (one day). Jeff Rushen From: IN%"jdehasse@arcadis.be" 8-JUL-1997 13:19:14.90 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: ESVCE Newsletter Dear all, the ESVCE (European Society for Veterinary Clinical Ethology) Newsletter (145 K file) has been posted on the Internet: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/2913/newsletter97a.htm It contains (32 pages of) abstracts and full articles of the ESVCE and CABTSG meeting in Birmingham on the 1rst and 2nd of April 97 (Firsy International Conference on Veterinary Behavioural Medicine). You may get the 242 pages Proceedings from Daniel Mills (dmills@dmu.ac.uk) or Sarah Heath (heath@vetethol.demon.co.uk) at the price of £17.50. Enjoy the lecture. Dr Joel Dehasse (dvm) - Brussels - jdehasse@arcadis.be http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/2913/ From: IN%"Nora_Lewis@umanitoba.ca" "N. Lewis" 8-JUL-1997 15:02:35.48 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: IN%"nlewis@cc.umanitoba.ca" Subj: slides for course I am looking for a set of slides which I can purchase for a 4th year university course in applied animal behaviour. I am most interested in slides showing behaviours in large animals (swine, ovine, equine, bovine). I would like to use these to both illustrate behaviours and to make lectures more interesting for the students. If you have a set of slides which are available or know of a set which may be available please let me know. Nora Lewis From: IN%"'AGRO02::AGRO02::MRGATE::\\'POST::AM_AGRM00::bracke\\'\d@imag.dlo.nl" 9-JUL-1997 06:58:18.52 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Questionnaire welfare assessment From: NAME: Marc B.M. Bracke TEL: 31-317-476554 ADDR: IMAG-DLO-NL To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"@AGRM00@MRGATE@AGRO02@POST Dear All, In preparation of a workshop on practical farm animal welfare assessment to be held during the ISAE conference this year in Prague, I would like to invite those interested to fill out the following questionnaire (will take about 15 minutes to fill out) on the topic of THE ASSESSMENT OF THE WELFARE STATUS OF FARM ANIMALS 1. Welfare is a matter of 1a. feelings only 1b. the physical state only 1c. both. Which is true? Degree of confidence: (Please rate on a scale from 0 (lowest) to 10 (highest).) 2. Welfare can be assessed objectively? 2a. yes 2b. no. Which is true? Degree of confidence: 3.Assessment of welfare on a scientific basis is 3a. now possible 3b. will become possible in the near future 3c. may become possible in the long run 3d. will never be possible Degree of confidence: 4. Many parameters have to be taken into account to assess the welfare status of animals. 4a. true 4b. false. Degree of confidence: 5. Knowledge of the behaviour of the animals is central to perform an overall welfare assessment task. 5a. true 5b. false. Degree of confidence: 6. A question about the weighing of parameters: Pathological parameters are in general more important than physiological parameters, which in turn are more important than (purely) ethological parameters. 6a. true 6b. false Degree of confidence: Comments: 7. The welfare status of farm animals can be expressed on a scale between for example 0 and 10. 7a. true 7b. false Degree of confidence: 8. Give a (personal and generalised) score (between 0 and 10) for the welfare status of PREGNANT SOWS in the following nine husbandry conditions: rate the best and worst sytems 0 and 10 respectively; don't give a score if you don't know the system; try to generalise and abstract from individual variation, if possible. It may be helpful to start solving this question as a ranking task. Please also indicate for the best and worst system (which have beeng given a score of 0 and 10 respectively): how you assess the welfare status of the sows in these 2 systems on an absolute welfare scale. 8a. Electronic sow feeder (ESF), small (20-40) stable groups, no straw. 8b. ESF in large (mixing) groups (e.g. 80 animals)on straw. 8c. Stolba Family pen 8d. tethered 8e. individual stalls 8f. feeding stalls as group housing system 8g. Biofix/Woldrix trickle feeding system, no straw. 8h. Outside huts (on pasture) 8i. Group housing; straw; trough feeding; yard ("Dutch Free-range") rank score confidence absolute score 8a 8b 8c 8d 8e 8f 8g 8h 8i Remarks: 9. Similar to question 8, now for LAYING HENS. 9a. battery cage 9b. modified battery cage (with perch only) 9c. modified battery cage (with perch, nestbox and dustbath) 9d. aviary 9e. free range (access to pasture) 9f. barn system (Dutch free range) rank score confidence abolute score 9a 9b 9c 9d 9e 9f 10. Similar to question 8 and 9, now for CALVES. 10a. veal calves, individual housing 10b. veal calves, group housing 10c. pink meat calves (get some roughage) 10d. calf rearing as on dairy farms (initially individually, later in groups) 10e. calf kept with the cow outside in a group. rank score confidence absolute score 10a 10b 10c 10d 10e Thank you for your cooperation. Marc Bracke m.b.m.bracke@imag.dlo.nl P.S. I am presently working on the problem of modelling welfare assessment on the basis of scientific knowledge. From: IN%"marie.haskell@bbsrc.ac.uk" "Marie Haskell" 9-JUL-1997 08:13:39.85 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Questionnaire welfare assessment From: NAME: Marc B.M. Bracke TEL: 31-317-476554 ADDR: IMAG-DLO-NL To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"@AGRM00@MRGATE@AGRO02@POST Dear All, In preparation of a workshop on practical farm animal welfare assessment to be held during the ISAE conference this year in Prague, I would like to invite those interested to fill out the following questionnaire (will take about 15 minutes to fill out) on the topic of THE ASSESSMENT OF THE WELFARE STATUS OF FARM ANIMALS 1. Welfare is a matter of 1a. feelings only 1b. the physical state only 1c. both. Which is true? 1c Degree of confidence: 8 (Although this is difficult as low welfare states such as pain is a 'feeling' nausea a 'feeling') (Please rate on a scale from 0 (lowest) to 10 (highest).) 2. Welfare can be assessed objectively? 2a. yes 2b. no. Which is true? 2a Degree of confidence: 6 3.Assessment of welfare on a scientific basis is 3a. now possible 3b. will become possible in the near future 3c. may become possible in the long run 3d. will never be possible Which is true? 3c Degree of confidence: 6 4. Many parameters have to be taken into account to assess the welfare status of animals. 4a. true 4b. false. Degree of confidence: True, 9 5. Knowledge of the behaviour of the animals is central to perform an overall welfare assessment task. 5a. true 5b. false. Degree of confidence: true: 10 6. A question about the weighing of parameters: Pathological parameters are in general more important than physiological parameters, which in turn are more important than (purely) ethological parameters. 6a. true 6b. false Degree of confidence: False: 6 Comments: Boredom definitively wouldn't follow this, nor learned helplessness, depression etc. 7. The welfare status of farm animals can be expressed on a scale between for example 0 and 10. 7a. true 7b. false Degree of confidence:True: but individual by individual only: 7 8. Give a (personal and generalised) score (between 0 and 10) for the welfare status of PREGNANT SOWS in the following nine husbandry conditions: rate the best and worst sytems 0 and 10 respectively; don't give a score if you don't know the system; try to generalise and abstract from individual variation, if possible. It may be helpful to start solving this question as a ranking task. Please also indicate for the best and worst system (which have beeng given a score of 0 and 10 respectively): how you assess the welfare status of the sows in these 2 systems on an absolute welfare scale. 8a. Electronic sow feeder (ESF), small (20-40) stable groups, no straw. 8b. ESF in large (mixing) groups (e.g. 80 animals)on straw. 8c. Stolba Family pen 8d. tethered 8e. individual stalls: 8f. feeding stalls as group housing system 8g. Biofix/Woldrix trickle feeding system, no straw. 8h. Outside huts (on pasture) 8i. Group housing; straw; trough feeding; yard ("Dutch Free-range") rank score confidence absolute score 8a 4 4 8 8b 5 4 6 8c 1 10 6 7/10 8d 8 0 8 2/10 8e 7 1 8 8f 6 2 6 8g - - -- -- - -- 8h 2 8 4 8i 3 7 6 Remarks: 9. Similar to question 8, now for LAYING HENS. 9a. battery cage 9b. modified battery cage (with perch only) 9c. modified battery cage (with perch, nestbox and dustbath) 9d. aviary 9e. free range (access to pasture) 9f. barn system (Dutch free range) rank score confidence abolute score 9a 6 2 8 2/10 9b 4 4 7 9c 3 6 7 9d -- --- --- 9e 1 8 6 7/10 9f 2 6 6 10. Similar to question 8 and 9, now for CALVES. 10a. veal calves, individual housing 10b. veal calves, group housing 10c. pink meat calves (get some roughage) 10d. calf rearing as on dairy farms (initially individually, later in groups) 10e. calf kept with the cow outside in a group. rank score confidence absolute score 10a 5 1 8 1/10 10b 4 2 8 10c 3 3 4 10d 2 7 6 10e 1 8 8 8/10 Thank you for your cooperation. Marc Bracke m.b.m.bracke@imag.dlo.nl P.S. I am presently working on the problem of modelling welfare assessment on the basis of scientific knowledge. From: IN%"William_R_STRICKLIN@umail.umd.edu" 9-JUL-1997 10:07:17.85 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: dualism Dear All: The following question(s) were recently posted: >THE ASSESSMENT OF THE WELFARE STATUS OF FARM ANIMALS > >1. Welfare is a matter of >1a. feelings only >1b. the physical state only >1c. both. >Which is true? >Degree of confidence: >(Please rate on a scale from 0 (lowest) to 10 (highest).) My answers to 1a YES 1b YES 1c YES Which is true? All of the above are true! The question has an implied contention that "feelings" and the "physical" state are separable!!! Dualism (at least in one form) rufuses to die - and maybe rightly so. The degree of confidence that I am correct (today) - 10. The degree of confifence that my position will _not_ change sometime in the future - <0.01. The likelihood of resolving this dilemma - essentially nil. The need to never-the-less discuss this topic relative to animal welfare - paramount. (And I further suggest that persons interested in this topic are greatly indebted to Marian Stamp Dawkins, especially so for her 1980 book, _Animal Suffering: the science of animal welfare_.) W. Ray Stricklin University of Maryland W. Ray STRICKLIN Email:W_RAY_STRICKLIN@umail.umd.edu (ws31) Phone:51382 From: IN%"rafpwf@shentel.net" "Dickie & Patty" 10-JUL-1997 06:04:09.20 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca'" CC: Subj: Please help Dear Sir or Madam, We have been referred to you by the gentleman listed below. CAN YOU POSSIBLY HELP??? Thank you so much for your time. Sincerely, Patty Furr James C. Ha Research Assistant Professor Psychology / Regional Primate Center University of Washington We sent: Dear Sir or Madam, I hope you can help. My husband & I are at our wit's end. We have a 10-year-old black lab who is about as gentle and loving as they come, BUT for the last 3 years has been licking the front of his right paw! We have tried everything to get him to stop-- we've had him to 2 different vets and they've given us bitter medicines to put on it, shots (in case it was an internal organism), pills (including valium!), and even told us to ignore it, that he was doing it for the attention...... we took him back in 2 weeks with a very infected and swollen foot. At present we have him muzzled (it's like a cage and he can still get drinks of water and we take it off to feed him. I can get it healed, but I still have to keep the foot bandaged, because he'll rub it with the muzzle! Sometimes he gets the muzzle off by rubbing against a small tree or bush, and then tears the bandage off and it's raw again in 5-10 minutes! We've considered putting him to sleep, but don't really want to, but after 3 years and no cure-- we're desperate! If you can't help, would you possibly know WHERE we can go for advice? It would take forever to write to every place listed on the internet. Thank you for your time. Sincerely, Patty Furr From: IN%"pscott@vetark.co.uk" "Peter Scott" 10-JUL-1997 10:35:23.96 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: FISH WELFARE Has anyone got any information on welfare assessment in farmed fish. I would like to try to develop an assessment protocol. Peter Scott FRCVS RCVS Specialist in 'Zoo & Wildlife Medicine' and in 'Fish Health & Production' Zoo & Aquatic Veterinary Group Winchester SO23 9XN Tel: (44) 01962-883895 Fax: (44) 01962-881790 email. pscott@vetark.co.uk From: IN%"jdehasse@arcadis.be" 10-JUL-1997 11:34:16.39 To: IN%"rafpwf@shentel.net" "Dickie & Patty" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: acral lick granuloma Dickie & Patty wrote: > I hope you can help. My husband & I are at our wit's end. We have a > 10-year-old black lab who is about as gentle and loving as they come, BUT > for the last 3 years has been licking the front of his right paw! ----------- If this is an acral lick granuloma and all the other signs and symptoms concur this being a case of anxiety (with displacement activity), of ritualised licking or a stereotypy, then a treatment is advisable. The first medication is SELEGILINE 0,5 mg / Kg once in the morning (Selgian/Deprenyl) and the chance to cure it is more than 90% in a mean time of 45 days. So do not think to put this lab to death, please. After having said that, in fact the first thing to do is to go see a veterinarian specialized in behaviour. There are plenty of those around the world. Your vet has to know one near your home. For more information on selegiline, have a look at: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/2913/newsletter97a.htm#selegiline I hope your lab get all right. Dr Joel Dehasse (dvm) - Brussels - jdehasse@arcadis.be http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/2913/ ----original message--- continued--------- > We have tried everything to get him to stop-- we've had him to 2 different > vets and they've given us bitter medicines to put on it, shots (in case it > was an internal organism), pills (including valium!), and even told us to > ignore it, that he was doing it for the attention...... we took him back in > 2 weeks with a very infected and swollen foot. > At present we have him muzzled (it's like a cage and he can still get > drinks of water and we take it off to feed him. I can get it healed, but I > still have to keep the foot bandaged, because he'll rub it with the muzzle! > Sometimes he gets the muzzle off by rubbing against a small tree or bush, > and then tears the bandage off and it's raw again in 5-10 minutes! > We've considered putting him to sleep, but don't really want to, but after > 3 years and no cure-- we're desperate! > If you can't help, would you possibly know WHERE we can go for advice? It > would take forever to write to every place listed on the internet. > Thank you for your time. > Sincerely, > Patty Furr ---------------------------------- From: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" 10-JUL-1997 14:26:11.80 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Good read in AABS! I just read the latest (July) Applied Animal Behaviour Science. There is a really fascinating paper in it. I just thought I'd like to share that with you. It's by Hutson & Haskell and it's about using pre-race behaviour of racehorses as a predictor of whether they are going to win. (I forget the exact title) It seems possible that by carefully studying the horse in the parade ring you could, in principle, improve your profitability as a gambler! Now there's a really useful application for animal behaviour. And I thought the only way to make a fast buck from applied ethology was to become a small animal behaviourist! Jon ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Watts (___) ) ) University of Saskatchewan |o o|___________/ ( Dept of Herd Medicine O \#/ | ) and Theriogenology |bser| | Statistical | ( Western College of Vet. Med. |vati| | analysis | ) 52 Campus Drive |ons.| \___________/| *& Saskatoon ------ || || %$#@ S7N 1B4 / \ || || ^*@*~ Canada &^%%#$@ wattsjon@duke.usask.ca "The Holy Cow" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IN%"jswanson@oz.oznet.ksu.edu" "JANICE SWANSON" 10-JUL-1997 15:36:31.29 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: att: U.S. ISAE Members Dear U.S. Colleagues, The time to submit nominations for the position of ISAE regional secretary has come. I have received one nomination already by way of our recent U.S. - Canada meeting in Quebec this June. Please send the name of the person (must be a member in good standing) to me that you would like to nominate ASAP. I will accept nominations until the end of July. During the first week of August I will post the slate and hope to receive enough feed-back to select (in consultation with our U.S. council member) someone for the position. The regional secretary is responsible for maintaining membership information, promoting ISAE, acting as liason with home office and officers, organizing the regional meeting (presently we meet every other year in the US inconjunction with Canada), accounting for funds received from home office, preparation of reports to Council regarding region activities, submitting regional funding requests, and newsletter articles, etc. I would be happy to answer any question nominees may have about the scope of responsibilities. The position can be very rewarding . I have enjoyed serving in this capacity for the past three years. Thank you for your time and cooperation. Janice Swanson ISAE U.S. Regional Secretary jswanson@oz.oznet.ksu.edu 913-456-1244 From: IN%"marie.haskell@bbsrc.ac.uk" "Marie Haskell" 11-JUL-1997 03:37:09.40 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Race horses Dear Jon, I'm very happy that you enjoyed our racehorse behaviour paper! As you say, it truly is 'Applied' animal behaviour science, in as much as the application is to potentially make the observer rich! However, I'm sorry to say that we are still slaving away in the heady world of pig and chicken behaviour and not ordering Porsches and Caribbean cruises. However, the ideal betting System may be out there somewhere....... Or maybe a career as a small animal behaviourist......!! Best wishes, Marie Haskell Roslin Institute From: IN%"lboyle@DAIRY.TEAGASC.IE" "LAURA BOYLE" 11-JUL-1997 05:09:42.62 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Is there a similar network for aspects of pig production? Does anyone know if there is a network similar to this one concerned with aspects of pig production such as management, housing, nutrition etc. A colleague of mine, after hearing so much about the usefulness of this network, is eager to apply to one herself! However, she couldn't find any evidence of one on the internet. Thanks, Laura From: IN%"darpo@ltk.unizh.ch" "Darko Popovic" 11-JUL-1997 05:21:11.73 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Animal Behaviour and Medicine Dear All I am a doctorate student at the Veterinary School in Zurich (CH) at the department of laboratory animal science.I am interessted in animal behavior and ethology.I am member of V.I.E.T.A.(Society of I.E.T. Absolvents). I would like to know if there is any post-doctorl training leads to the Ph.D in animal behavior and veterinary medicine.=20 I appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks Darko Popovic Darko Popovic Darko Popovic Institute of Laboratory Animal Science University of Zurich Winterthurerstrasse l90 phone +411 257 54 87 8057 Z=FCrich fax +411 257 57 03 Switzerland e-mail darpo@ltk.unizh.ch From: IN%"ckp@micro.lucent.com" 11-JUL-1997 05:50:41.40 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Does anybody know if there is a list focused on primate behavior? Thanks. From: IN%"mkhd@wcic.org" 11-JUL-1997 08:28:45.73 To: IN%"darpo@ltk.unizh.ch" "Darko Popovic" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Animal Behaviour and Medicine Hoi Darko, schoen, auf diesem Wege wiedereinmal etwas voneinander zu hoeren! Ja ja, das Internet laesst die Distanzen schrumpfen! Ich denke, Du wirst viele Antworten erhalten, es gibt verschiedene Moeglichkeiten. Ich hoffe, in Zuerich sei alles in Ordnung und gruesse Dich herzlich Sonja -- ************************************************************************ Sonja Doll-Sonderegger MSC Zoologist/Ethologist Consultancy for behavior problems in dogs fax: (765) 463 9628 e-mail: mkhd@wcic.org ************************************************************************ From: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" 11-JUL-1997 09:15:47.22 To: IN%"ckp@micro.lucent.com" "A_M_WINKLER(Andrew)" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: your mail On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, A_M_WINKLER(Andrew) wrote: > Does anybody know if there is a list focused on primate behavior? Thanks. > > Try Primate-Talk. It's not exclusively about behaviour. But it is about primates! address is primate-talk@primate.wisc.edu to subscribe, send message to primate-talk-request@primate.wisc.edu (note the "-request" part) message should read: subscribe primate-talk (nothing else) enjoy! Jon ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Watts (___) ) ) University of Saskatchewan |o o|___________/ ( Dept of Herd Medicine O \#/ | ) and Theriogenology |bser| | Statistical | ( Western College of Vet. Med. |vati| | analysis | ) 52 Campus Drive |ons.| \___________/| *& Saskatoon ------ || || %$#@ S7N 1B4 / \ || || ^*@*~ Canada &^%%#$@ wattsjon@duke.usask.ca "The Holy Cow" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IN%"billcamp@cdsnet.net" 11-JUL-1997 10:33:15.28 To: IN%"rafpwf@shentel.net" "Dickie & Patty" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Please help Dick and Patty, I've heard of many cases and been involved as a behavior consultant in several. The first thing many veterinarians are looking for today in this type of self-mutilation is a misaligned cervical vertebra. The dog could well be experiencing numbness or pain in the paw due to a pinched nerve. Please don't have him killed, when he may be helped over his problem. When you have him examined, please let me know the outcome. Kindest regards, Bill Campbell >Dear Sir or Madam, > We have been referred to you by the gentleman listed below. CAN YOU POSSIBLY HELP??? Thank you so much for your time. > Sincerely, > Patty Furr > > >James C. Ha >Research Assistant Professor >Psychology / Regional Primate Center >University of Washington > >We sent: > >Dear Sir or Madam, > I hope you can help. My husband & I are at our wit's end. We have a >10-year-old black lab who is about as gentle and loving as they come, BUT >for the last 3 years has been licking the front of his right paw! > We have tried everything to get him to stop-- we've had him to 2 different >vets and they've given us bitter medicines to put on it, shots (in case it >was an internal organism), pills (including valium!), and even told us to >ignore it, that he was doing it for the attention...... we took him back in >2 weeks with a very infected and swollen foot. > At present we have him muzzled (it's like a cage and he can still get >drinks of water and we take it off to feed him. I can get it healed, but I >still have to keep the foot bandaged, because he'll rub it with the muzzle! > Sometimes he gets the muzzle off by rubbing against a small tree or bush, >and then tears the bandage off and it's raw again in 5-10 minutes! > We've considered putting him to sleep, but don't really want to, but after >3 years and no cure-- we're desperate! > If you can't help, would you possibly know WHERE we can go for advice? It >would take forever to write to every place listed on the internet. > Thank you for your time. > Sincerely, > Patty Furr From: IN%"sgadbois@is2.dal.ca" "Simon Gadbois" 11-JUL-1997 16:03:41.68 To: IN%"ETHOLOGY@SEGATE.SUNET.SE" "Ethology (Discussions on animal behaviour)", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Mammals and weather changes. Hi, I am interested in references/studies done with mammals and dealing with their capacity to "sense", "predict", "anticipate" changes in weather patterns from (sudden?) changes in parameters such as barometric pressure, humidity level, winds (direction, strength), etc. I have been very unsuccessful until now to find anything "serious" on the matter and I am wondering if I am missing an important source of info. (p.s.: this is not central to my research, but some pointers on the topic would be appreciated). Thank you in advance, Simon Gadbois Department of Psychology Life Sciences Centre Dalhousie University Halifax, Nova Scotia Canada, B3H 4J1 sgadbois@is2.dal.ca 902-494-6809 (office, 2519) 902-494-3603 (Fentress's lab) 902-494-3370 (Moger's lab) 902-494-6585 (fax @ Dalhousie) 902-857-9206 (database programming) Behavioral (social) endocrinology of the wolf (aggression and social stress, urinary cortisol). Sequential and temporal analysis of behavioral sequences in canids (wolves, red foxes and coyotes). From: IN%"harrism@sask.usask.ca" "Moira Harris" 11-JUL-1997 16:29:39.96 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Pig reproduction: feral/natural Dear all, I am attempting to find out the answer to a question I have about reproduction in wild boar and/or domestic sows in a natural or feral situation. It seems a fairly simple question, but I don't know if it has ever been addressed. Do all females reproduce? That is, do all members of an all-female family group mate, and if so do all become pregnant? And do all go on to give birth to and raise their litters? If not, is there some equivalent of 'aunts', or 'helpers at the nest', perhaps the subordinate female or females? Looking forward to hearing from you, - Moira Harris From: IN%"info@tvpetline.com" "PetLine staff" 13-JUL-1997 16:48:55.97 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: dawkins I would like to add to Ray Stricklins note about the value of Marian Dawkins' book, Animal Suffering (1980). I teach an extended section on how to evaluate an animal's welfare in my "Biology and Philosophy of Human/Animal Relationships" class and her book is required reading. It is the best, most useful, balanced and constructive work on the subject that I have ever seen. I hope it is reprinted soon. Thank you Dr. Dawkins. Trisha Patricia McConnell, Ph.D. University of Wisconsin, Madison From: IN%"eoprice@ucdavis.edu" "Edward O. Price" 14-JUL-1997 09:51:04.18 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology-error", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology" CC: Subj: RE: dawkins I support Trisha McConnell and Ray Stricklin's thoughts on Marian Dawkin's book "Animal Suffering". I have used it in one of my domestic animal behavior courses ever since it was published. It is very effective in making a number of important points regarding animal welfare and my students have responded well to it. I, too, hope it is reprinted. Ed Price University of California, Davis ---------- >From: applied-ethology-error >To: applied-ethology >Subject: dawkins >Date: Sunday, July 13, 1997 5:47PM > >I would like to add to Ray Stricklins note about the value of Marian >Dawkins' book, Animal Suffering (1980). I teach an extended section on how >to evaluate an animal's welfare in my "Biology and Philosophy of >Human/Animal Relationships" class and her book is required reading. It is >the best, most useful, balanced and constructive work on the subject that I >have ever seen. I hope it is reprinted soon. Thank you Dr. Dawkins. > >Trisha > >Patricia McConnell, Ph.D. >University of Wisconsin, Madison From: IN%"eoprice@ucdavis.edu" "Edward O. Price" 14-JUL-1997 09:51:36.80 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology-error", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology" CC: Subj: RE: dawkins I support Trisha McConnell and Ray Stricklin's thoughts on Marian Dawkin's book "Animal Suffering". I have used it in one of my domestic animal behavior courses ever since it was published. It is very effective in making a number of important points regarding animal welfare and my students have responded well to it. I, too, hope it is reprinted. Ed Price University of California, Davis ---------- >From: applied-ethology-error >To: applied-ethology >Subject: dawkins >Date: Sunday, July 13, 1997 5:47PM > >I would like to add to Ray Stricklins note about the value of Marian >Dawkins' book, Animal Suffering (1980). I teach an extended section on how >to evaluate an animal's welfare in my "Biology and Philosophy of >Human/Animal Relationships" class and her book is required reading. It is >the best, most useful, balanced and constructive work on the subject that I >have ever seen. I hope it is reprinted soon. Thank you Dr. Dawkins. > >Trisha > >Patricia McConnell, Ph.D. >University of Wisconsin, Madison From: IN%"lboyle@DAIRY.TEAGASC.IE" "LAURA BOYLE" 14-JUL-1997 14:08:35.77 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Fungi - The Dingle Dolphin Hello, I spend a lot of time in an area on the south west coast of Ireland called the Dingle Penninsula where quite a famous dolphin lives. I don't know if any of you have heard about him, he is called 'Fungi' and is a mature male Bottle-nose (I think!) that has been living just outside Dingle harbour for the past 14 years. Over the years I have often gone swimming with him, and I did so again last Saturday for the first time this year. He is really spectacular and it is a real privilege to watch a wild dolphin in natural surroundings and for him to allow you to get so close. However, I am really curious about his behaviour, does anyone know if there are other cases around the world where dolphins live isolated from members of their own species yet have many human friends? Other schools of dolphins aften pass through and hang around for a few days but Fungi never leaves with them. He spends every day racing in and out of the harbour behind the boats that ferry people out to see him and swimming with people each morning and evening. Does anyone have any theories on why he does what he does ? If not, perhaps there is another list that deals with marine animal behaviour that I could query ? Laura From: IN%"reedd@cjnetworks.com" 14-JUL-1997 16:52:49.34 To: IN%"corbin@bright.net", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Ethology" CC: Subj: Feeding Any that can help- I have a Ball that is a couple of months old, I've only had him a few weeks. I've been feeding him 9 day old fuzzies, but he won't take it on his own, I don't have to completely force feed him I just open his mouth and sit the tip on the fuzzies nose in his mouth. But I am concerened why he won't take it on his own. If you have any advice, please forward it. Thankyou THANKS in ADVANCE MAREN(e-mail reedd@cjnetworks.com)