From: IN%"mappleby@hsus.org" "Michael Appleby" 16-JUL-2004 10:23:06.50 To: IN%"olsson@ibmc.up.pt" "Anna Olsson", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied ethology" CC: Subj: RE: help with some farm animal questions Anna et al > Is it usual to debeak laying hens twice? The word 'debeaking' is misleading. Mike Gentle's phrase 'partial beak amputation' is most accurate but inconvenient. 'Beak trimming' seems the best compromise. I believe it is quite common to do a second beak-trim of growing birds if there is re-growth - which, sadly, seems to be more common if birds are beak-trimmed shortly after hatch than if it is left until later. I don't know what is involved - whether it is usual to do all birds, or (probably more likely) just to select those with most growth, whether they use cold shears or a heated blade, or what. And I don't know if the beak they trim at that stage is innervated. > How many times in a life, and with what interval, are laying hens usually moulted in countries where this practice is applied? I believe once is almost if not entirely universal, with approximately a year's production before and after the moult. The timing (and the timing of slaughter after the second year's production) will depend on laying percentage, economics and so on. > Is debeaking routinely used for broiler chickens? Toeclipping? Neither are ever used, but there is confusion because both are used in broiler breeders (which most people don't know, or forget, exist) so sometimes when these issues are mentioned in broilers the word must be taken to mean 'broilers and/or broiler breeders'. > Is cannibalism at all a problem in broiler flocks? No, but the answer to the previous question applies here too. > Is it usual that tail-biting in pigs transfers into regular fighting? I've never known it to do so, but the author might perhaps mean that biting of the tail transfers into infliction of more general and severe injury. > Is it common practice anywhere to keep gestating sows in darkness and fed only every two to three days? I've never heard of sows being kept in darkness, although fattening pigs sometimes are. There was at least investigation some years ago of the feasibility of feeding sows every two or three days, but I don't believe it ever became common practice; perhaps those investigations also tried keeping them in darkness to reduce the inevitable behavioural problems. What may be slightly more common practice in at least some countries (but not, to my knowledge, in those with which I have most familiarity) is skip-a-day feeding, in which sows are fed on most days, but not every day. Mike Michael C. Appleby (Dr) Vice-President Farm Animals and Sustainable Agriculture The Humane Society of the United States 2100 L Street, NW Washington, DC 20037, USA Switchboard 1 202 452 1100 Direct 1 301 258 3111 Fax 1 301 258 3081 Email mappleby@hsus.org -----Original Message----- From: Anna Olsson [mailto:olsson@ibmc.up.pt] Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 1:43 PM To: applied ethology Subject: help with some farm animal questions Dear all, I'm reviewing a book on animal ethics and would appreciate your help to answer a few factual questions. 1. Is it usual to debeak laying hens twice? 2. How many times in a life, and with what interval, are laying hens usually moulted in countries where this practice is applied? 3. Is debeaking routinely used for broiler chickens? Toeclipping? 4. Is cannibalism at all a problem in broiler flocks? 5. Is it usual that tail-biting in pigs transfers into regular fighting? 6. Is it common practice anywhere to keep gestating sows in darkness and fed only every two to three days? These have all to do with statements made that I don't recognise from the farming practice I'm familiar with, but recognising that my own experience is limited I would appreciate the international input from the list members. Best wishes Anna Olsson From: IN%"mappleby@hsus.org" "Michael Appleby" 16-JUL-2004 14:34:02.57 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: FW: help with some farm animal questions Forwarded with permission Mike Michael C. Appleby (Dr) Vice-President Farm Animals and Sustainable Agriculture The Humane Society of the United States 2100 L Street, NW Washington, DC 20037, USA Switchboard 1 202 452 1100 Direct 1 301 258 3111 Fax 1 301 258 3081 Email mappleby@hsus.org -----Original Message----- From: E. Wayne Johnson [mailto:ewj@uiuc.edu] Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 3:05 PM To: Michael Appleby Subject: RE: help with some farm animal questions The one day in three method was very popular in the midwestern US in the mid to late 1980's and some producers still use it, allowing sows ad-libitum access to feeders for one day out of in three. It is one possible solution to the problem of feeding and conditioning in sows kept outdoors. There was even at one time a commercial feeder designed for feeding sows in outside gestation that had a lid that could be fastened down to prevent feed access on "no feed" days. Feed access is provided more frequently in cold weather. From: IN%"mappleby@hsus.org" "Michael Appleby" 16-JUL-2004 14:36:49.55 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: FW: help with some farm animal questions -----Original Message----- From: E. Wayne Johnson [mailto:ewj@uiuc.edu] Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 4:12 PM To: Michael Appleby Subject: RE: help with some farm animal questions One of the major issues in keeping gestating sows is "how do we feed them". It is a problem that is still largely unanswered. Producers used to feed shelled corn and "sow cubes" (a large-pellet-ed concentrate) to gestating sows kept outdoors. The sow was expected to know how many grains of corn and how many cubes she needed. That worked not very well but producers got by with that until they started to make the sows more productive, which put more emphasis on the calcium and phosphorus nutriture. All of the calcium and most of the available P was in the sow cubes (virtually no Ca in the corn) and the cubes were generally fairly unpalatable (otherwise some sows would eat too many cubes), so that some sows didn't get enough of what was in the cubes. The every 3rd day feeding was a way to get a complete balanced ground (mash) feed into the gestating sows. It was a great improvement over shelled corn and sow cubes. It was not so bad in situations where the sows have access to good quality pasture in the 'off' days, but in the wintertime or on denuded lots with no vegetation, it is fairly severe. I have seen serious injury from fighting for feed when the feeders are opened and have diagnosed one death from gastric engorgement. Those sorts of problems are fairly rare but can occur. Older sows seem to get used to it and do pretty well. Younger sows are still growing their own bodies as well as the conceptus and and need to be fed more often to do quite as well. One outdoor solution that has seemed to work is to have a long concrete pad where the sows are fed the ground feed. There still will be fighting and competition for the feed, and it is labor intensive in feeding as well as rather costly to pour a decent concrete pad. Some sows will still get too much feed while others get not enough in nearly any group housing system. Thin sows need to be sorted out and fed in a separate group which is also difficult. Some producers tried a central feeding area (the hub and spokes system with the feed area at the hub and outdoor pens in a radial arrangement). Many of those hub/spoke systems built here in Illinois in the 1990's have been abandoned in favour of a every 3rd day feeding system, although the central hub is still handy for handling the sows. Some have used outdoor feeding stalls that the sows enter and are locked in for feeding. That system is time consuming to operate and costly to build. I haven't seen any of those for quite some time, but they were tried for awhile. * yes you may post this and the other note if you like... I had not noticed that it was to you only. From: IN%"ceannicrc@yahoo.com" "Cecilia Lambert" 16-JUL-2004 17:18:47.90 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: DNA question I have just been told that Hotei, my coyote puppy that I got this year has wolf in his Y chromosome. Can they now deffirentiate between wolf and dog? Can someone explain more about this to me? CeAnn ===== CeAnn Lambert Indiana Coyote Rescue Center www.WolfPark.org/ICRC __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/ From: IN%"jurskivan@hi.htnet.hr" "Marko Jirasek" 16-JUL-2004 20:53:54.04 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: DNA question Dear CeAnn As far as my knowledge in genetics (based mainly on feline characteristics, but there is no difference in rules and laws of heredity), there is no way to tell which traits your puppy has inherited more. From my breeder experience, and I'm sure many would agree, males inherit more from mother's side. All of the male cats I have experience with inherit their appearance and more of their other characteristics from their mother. And I say again, principles or heredity are constant. Second, chromosomes Y and X are (first of all) sex chromosomes. Meaning, the Y has been carried by males only and evidently puppy has inherit this chromosome from his father's side. Therefore, from what you've said about puppy's Y chr, I assume puppy's father is a coyote. So it is logical that he "has wolf in his Y chr", whatever it means. I do not understand and I do not see any importance in what you have said about his Y chromosome. But I can stand corrected, of course, I'm not an expert. Because, there is also mother's X choromosome present in a pair (FYI, males carrie YX and females XX pairs). Which and who's traits would come to surface (by this I mean not only coat characteristics but everything else from behaviour, constitution, exposure to certain deseases etc) in this checkerboard game played by nature, I think no-one can tell! From my experience with cats, males exhibit more from mother's side. Hope this helps, although I'd like someone else to give more expert opinion as well. best regards, Marko Jirasek www.turkishvan.cjb.net www.macja-posla.cjb.net -----Original Message----- From: Cecilia Lambert [mailto:ceannicrc@yahoo.com] Sent: 17. srpanj 2004 01:16 To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca Subject: DNA question I have just been told that Hotei, my coyote puppy that I got this year has wolf in his Y chromosome. Can they now deffirentiate between wolf and dog? Can someone explain more about this to me? CeAnn ===== CeAnn Lambert Indiana Coyote Rescue Center www.WolfPark.org/ICRC __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/ -- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.230 / Virus Database: 263.4.2 - Release Date: 12.07.2004 -- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.230 / Virus Database: 263.4.2 - Release Date: 12.07.2004 From: IN%"ceannicrc@yahoo.com" "Cecilia Lambert" 17-JUL-2004 05:41:24.04 To: IN%"jurskivan@hi.htnet.hr" "Marko Jirasek", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: DNA question Marko, The reason I am interested is, that we know the Norteastern coyote has wolf in it from many years ago. I knew the northeastern coyote had traveled into Ohio, but didn't think that it had come this far west. Hotei looks, sounds and his behavior is coyote. As far as I am concerned, he is coyote. This is the second coyote that I have had with this trait in 18 yrs. Thank you so much for this information. It is too complicated for me to understand. You have made it more understanding for me. CeAnn --- Marko Jirasek wrote: > Dear CeAnn > > As far as my knowledge in genetics (based mainly on > feline characteristics, > but there is no difference in rules and laws of > heredity), there is no way > to tell which traits your puppy has inherited more. > From my breeder > experience, and I'm sure many would agree, males > inherit more from mother's > side. All of the male cats I have experience with > inherit their appearance > and more of their other characteristics from their > mother. And I say again, > principles or heredity are constant. > Second, chromosomes Y and X are (first of all) sex > chromosomes. Meaning, the > Y has been carried by males only and evidently puppy > has inherit this > chromosome from his father's side. Therefore, from > what you've said about > puppy's Y chr, I assume puppy's father is a coyote. > So it is logical that he > "has wolf in his Y chr", whatever it means. I do not > understand and I do not > see any importance in what you have said about his Y > chromosome. But I can > stand corrected, of course, I'm not an expert. > Because, there is also > mother's X choromosome present in a pair (FYI, males > carrie YX and females > XX pairs). Which and who's traits would come to > surface (by this I mean not > only coat characteristics but everything else from > behaviour, constitution, > exposure to certain deseases etc) in this > checkerboard game played by > nature, I think no-one can tell! From my experience > with cats, males exhibit > more from mother's side. > > Hope this helps, although I'd like someone else to > give more expert opinion > as well. > best regards, > > Marko Jirasek > > > www.turkishvan.cjb.net > > www.macja-posla.cjb.net > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cecilia Lambert [mailto:ceannicrc@yahoo.com] > Sent: 17. srpanj 2004 01:16 > To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca > Subject: DNA question > > > I have just been told that Hotei, my coyote puppy > that > I got this year has wolf in his Y chromosome. Can > they now deffirentiate between wolf and dog? Can > someone explain more about this to me? > CeAnn > > ===== > CeAnn Lambert > Indiana Coyote Rescue Center > www.WolfPark.org/ICRC > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/ > > > > -- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 7.0.230 / Virus Database: 263.4.2 - Release > Date: 12.07.2004 > > > -- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 7.0.230 / Virus Database: 263.4.2 - Release > Date: 12.07.2004 > > ===== CeAnn Lambert Indiana Coyote Rescue Center www.WolfPark.org/ICRC __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/ From: IN%"simon@gadbois.org" "Simon Gadbois" 17-JUL-2004 08:55:08.82 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Ethology" CC: Subj: RE: DNA question Hi, It is impossible to differentiate wolf (Canis lupus) and dog (Canis lupus familiaris; this supplanted the former "Canis familiaris") DNA: They are genetically identical. But if you do have some wolf or dog DNA in your coyote, (Canis latrans), a geneticist could tell you. Wayne's publications on canid DNA/genetics are the best to understand the basics. It is true though that many coyotes, especially in the East (some say most...) are hybrids coyotes-wolves. This is what gets some people to call our coyotes here (Nova Scotia, New-Brunswick and most of the New England states) the "New England Canid". They are clearly bigger than the coyotes in the West. The theory is that during their eastward migration, they occasionally crossed with wolves (canids from the Canis genus can inter-breed, and even more unique, their progeny is fertile). This also explains the larger pack structure adopted by Eastern coyotes, their ability to adapt to wooden areas (the "original" coyote is called "prairie wolf" for a reason, they seem to be primarily adapted to prairie areas), their selection of larger preys, etc. That inter-breeding likely occurred in other states and provinces where wolves and coyotes are common. Let's face it: It is not a common occurrence. Coyotes and wolves do not inter-mingle very well as you know (the wolves usually end-up killing coyotes any chance they have). SG --- Simon Gadbois, Ph.D. Dalhousie University Behavioural endocrinology & animal behaviour. Behaviour of wolves, coyotes and red foxes. http://www.gadbois.org/ --- On 16-Jul-04, at 8:53 PM, Marko Jirasek wrote: > Dear CeAnn > > As far as my knowledge in genetics (based mainly on feline > characteristics, > but there is no difference in rules and laws of heredity), there is no > way > to tell which traits your puppy has inherited more. From my breeder > experience, and I'm sure many would agree, males inherit more from > mother's > side. All of the male cats I have experience with inherit their > appearance > and more of their other characteristics from their mother. And I say > again, > principles or heredity are constant. > Second, chromosomes Y and X are (first of all) sex chromosomes. > Meaning, the > Y has been carried by males only and evidently puppy has inherit this > chromosome from his father's side. Therefore, from what you've said > about > puppy's Y chr, I assume puppy's father is a coyote. So it is logical > that he > "has wolf in his Y chr", whatever it means. I do not understand and I > do not > see any importance in what you have said about his Y chromosome. But I > can > stand corrected, of course, I'm not an expert. Because, there is also > mother's X choromosome present in a pair (FYI, males carrie YX and > females > XX pairs). Which and who's traits would come to surface (by this I > mean not > only coat characteristics but everything else from behaviour, > constitution, > exposure to certain deseases etc) in this checkerboard game played by > nature, I think no-one can tell! From my experience with cats, males > exhibit > more from mother's side. > > Hope this helps, although I'd like someone else to give more expert > opinion > as well. > best regards, > > Marko Jirasek > > > www.turkishvan.cjb.net > www.macja-posla.cjb.net > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cecilia Lambert [mailto:ceannicrc@yahoo.com] > Sent: 17. srpanj 2004 01:16 > To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca > Subject: DNA question > > > I have just been told that Hotei, my coyote puppy that > I got this year has wolf in his Y chromosome. Can > they now deffirentiate between wolf and dog? Can > someone explain more about this to me? > CeAnn > > ===== > CeAnn Lambert > Indiana Coyote Rescue Center > www.WolfPark.org/ICRC > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/ > > > > -- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 7.0.230 / Virus Database: 263.4.2 - Release Date: 12.07.2004 > > > -- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 7.0.230 / Virus Database: 263.4.2 - Release Date: 12.07.2004 > > From: IN%"jhaskins@tpg.com.au" "Jenny Haskins" 17-JUL-2004 20:25:45.46 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Ethology" CC: Subj: RE: help with some farm animal questions i passed these questions on to my sister, Clare Rudkin, who has her PhD in poultry behaviour (Queesnland Uni) and these are her answers (in red). It seems to confirm what you have heard elsewhere. I hope it helps. Jenny Haskins Family Dog Training Coffs Harbour, Australia Dear all, I'm reviewing a book on animal ethics and would appreciate your help to answer a few factual questions. The answer depends on the country. In Australia, 1. Is it usual to debeak laying hens twice? No, usually chicks are beak trimmed at 1 week of age. Further trimming will be undertaken if there is an outbreak of cannibalism in a flock. This can happen more than once. 2. How many times in a life, and with what interval, are laying hens usually moulted in countries where this practice is applied? Hens are sometimes moulted after 1 year of lay if it is more economical to keep the hens for another laying cycle than to depopulate and get a new population of point of lay hens. Hens are never force moulted more than once. 3. Is debeaking routinely used for broiler chickens? Not for chickens destined for the table. Only for the broiler breeders.Toeclipping? Toe clipping is not practiced in Australia. 4. Is cannibalism at all a problem in broiler flocks? Not in those destined for the table. Cannibalism can be a problem in broiler breeders. 5. Is it usual that tail-biting in pigs transfers into regular fighting? 6. Is it common practice anywhere to keep gestating sows in darkness and fed only every two to three days? Can't help with pigs, sorry. These have all to do with statements made that I don't recognise from the farming practice I'm familiar with, but recognising that my own experience is limited I would appreciate the international input from the list members. Best wishes Anna Olsson From: IN%"anna.johnson@porkboard.org" "Anna Johnson" 19-JUL-2004 08:35:06.01 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: IN%"TWhiting@gov.mb.ca" Subj: Horse welfare Dear List Serve, I am posting the following question on behalf of Dr. Terry Whitting. If anyone can help Dr. Whitting with his request we would greatly appreciate it. Please address all correspondence to twhiting@gov.mb.ca Best regards in advance, Anna ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ _____________________ I am working on a case report: Case: Nine of 45 horses subjected to prolonged malnutrition died subsequent to being placed with a responsible caregiver and being provided an appropriate diet. Initial extreme poor body condition score was statistically associated with death although individual response to re-feeding varied. The financial costs of stabilizing the group of horses significantly exceed their free market value. Economics both contributed to the suffering of the animals and limited the options for handling by the welfare agency. The background to this case is that for many reasons, the value of slaughter horses in Canada and Northern USA have dropped about 40% in the past 2 years. Feedlots and slaughterhouses are still making their margins so the live horse market has been severely depreciated. Farmers think everything goes in cycles and if they hang on to their animals long enough the market will rebound. The "hanging on" to low value animals results in poor animal welfare. I believe that cull cows, spent hens and cull breeding swine are all at risk of poor animal welfare primarily because of their low financial value. Similar situations emerge in "welfare slaughter" in European foreign animal disease eradication and may happen soon in Canada due to the US border closure to live cattle. Is there a reference available that looks at value of the livestock as an independent risk factor for poor animal welfare? Any help you may be would be greatly appreciated. sincerely terry whiting dvm msc disease control and epidemiology government of manitoba 545 university crescent winnipeg, manitoba, canada R3T 5S6 tel 204-945-6750 fax 204-945-8062 twhiting@gov.mb.ca From: IN%"k9.college_napier@xtra.co.nz" "John R. Lane" 19-JUL-2004 21:19:17.59 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: more questions for Jackie about Seligman's paper Hi Jackie, Firstly sorry I haven't responded prior to this, on this point, on your question re marine mammal training over involuntary response sources close to you and on the private response I promised on "house rabbit" training. Dogwise I have had one competition, and two trials to train for and enter and one full weekend seminar over the last few weeks plus study as well as a number of dog cases I have been putting time into. I have also been busy with my other undog related business. So as you can see while I am still very interested this has left little time to persue this question with you. On the question of sources that Kayce outlined: If you contact Sea World on the Gold Coast and contact Kerry Haynes-Lovell, although she now works with polar bears, you will find she has been involved for many years in the training aspects that Kayce mentioned with marine mammals and so will be a very knowledgable source close enough for you to learn from easier than from those more distant. She is also very familar with training dogs as well. She has run the "other animal" week long training camp section of the Delta Australia C.G.C. intsructors course as well since the course's inception in Aussie. She often runs camps and training sessions for "dog people" as well across Aussie. I will try to get to the rabbit care question privately next week some time. I am away again this weekend unfortunately and still have a number of new consults to attend to. So if I don't get back for a while my apologies in advance. It doesn't mean I have lost interest. If you feel at any time that I might have overlooked responding please give me a reminder. I have since we last spoke sourced an original copy of the paper "On the generality of the laws of learning" in 1970 By Seligman thanks to Dr Kevin Stafford and others at Massey University. So I can now say definitely that the source I found on the web was an accurate copy. Unortunately in the case of the other two, on the resource list I outlined, Massey's recods of these journals don't go back this far. If any one else can help with a source of originals of these so we can verify the accuracy of the web articles on these it would be appreciated. OK on to the original topic under discussion: MY ORIGINAL PASTE FROM: "On the generality of the laws of learning" by Seligman. > "We can define a continuum of preparedness operationally. Confront an > organism with a CS paired with US or with a response which produces an > outcome. Depending on the specifics, the organism can be either > prepared, unprepared, or contraprepared for learning about the events." JACKIE"S RESPONSE: > I think this definition of preparedness is best explained by physiological > preparedness. MY RESPONSE: I feel it can be explained by either or by a combination of both as they in my view totally interrelated. So from this: Question 1: Although it isn't quite what you have said I feel you are infering that it can *only* be explained by "physiological preparedness" If this is correct: Why do you feel that it can *only* or best be explained by "physiological preparedness." Question 2: Do you not see the two as being interrelated? and if not why not? Now for a seperate but related question: In my original post I then went on to make the case that "contraprepared" wasn't defined by the author as meaning *totally unable to learn* but rather as that *the learning process would be more difficult*. You didn't respond to this. Do you agree on this point please? Regards John L. K9 College ~ Hawkes Bay New Zealand. From: IN%"k9.college_napier@xtra.co.nz" "John R. Lane" 20-JUL-2004 00:43:50.26 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: dog genome mapping results released Forwarded with permission from the original poster. Hi all, The following may be of interest to many. If it has already been posted then my apologies but on a quick search I din't find a reference to it. Regards John L. Napier Wednesday, July 14, 2004 Dog Genome Assembled Canine Genome Now Available to Research Community Worldwide Bethesda, Maryland - The first draft of the dog genome sequence has been deposited into free public databases for use by biomedical and veterinary researchers around the globe, the National Human Genome Research Institute(NHGRI), one of the National Institutes of Health (NIH), announced today. A team led by Kerstin Lindblad-Toh, Ph.D., of the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard, Cambridge, Mass., and Agencourt Bioscience Corp., Beverly, Mass., successfully assembled the genome of the domestic dog (Canis familiaris). The breed of dog sequenced was the boxer, which was chosen after analyses of 60 dog breeds found it was one of the breeds with the least amount of variation in its genome and therefore likely to provide the most reliable reference genome sequence. The initial assembly is based on seven-fold coverage of the dog genome. Researchers can access the sequence data through the following public databases: GenBank (http://www.ncbi.nih.gov/Genbank) at NIH's National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI); EMBL Bank (www.ebi.ac.uk/embl/index.html) at the European Molecular Biology Laboratory's Nucleotide Sequence Database; and the DNA Data Bank of Japan (www.ddbj.nig.ac.jp). The data can also be viewed through the UCSC Genome Browser (http://www.genome.ucsc.edu/) at the University of California at Santa Cruz and the Ensembl Genome Browser (www.ensembl.org) at the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Cambridge, England. Viewing capabilities also will be available in August at NCBI's Map Viewer (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/mapview/). The NHGRI-supported researchers are currently comparing the dog and human genome sequences and plan to publish results of their analysis in the next several months. The dog genome is similar in size to the genomes of humans and other mammals, containing approximately 2.5 billion DNA base pairs. Due to a long history of selective breeding, many types of dogs are prone to genetic diseases that are difficult to study in humans, such as cancer, heart disease, deafness, blindness and autoimmune disorders. In addition, the dog is an important model for the genetics of behavior and is used extensively in pharmaceutical research. To best characterize disease in dogs, it is important to have a sufficient number of markers in the genome. Therefore, in addition to the boxer, nine other dog breeds, four wolves and a coyote were sampled to generate markers that can be used in disease studies in any dog breed. A preliminary set of about 600,000 single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs), which amounts to a SNP roughly every 5,000 DNA base pairs, is currently being aligned to the released assembly. The reads used to identify the SNPs are publicly available in NCBI's Trace Archive (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Traces/trace.cgi) and the SNPs will be available shortly at the Single Nucleotide Polymorphism database, dbSNP (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/SNP/). Sequencing of the dog genome began in June 2003. NHGRI provided about $30 million in funding for the project to the Broad Institute, which is part of NHGRI's Large-Scale Sequencing Research Network. To learn more about the rapidly expanding field of comparative genomic analysis, go to: www.genome.gov/10005835. To read the white paper that outlines the scientific rationale and strategy for sequencing the dog genome, go to: http://www.genome.gov/Pages/Research/Sequencing/SeqProposals/CanineSEQedited.pdf. A high-resolution photo of Tasha, the boxer whose DNA was sequenced, is available at: http://www.genome.gov/11007323.NHGRI is one of 27 institutes and centers at NIH, an agency of the Department of Health and Human Services. The NHGRI Division of Extramural Research supports grants for research and for training and career development at sites nationwide. Information about NHGRI can be found at: www.genome.gov. http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/jul2004/nhgri-14.htm From: IN%"saluqi@ix.netcom.com" "John Burchard" 20-JUL-2004 09:01:41.91 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied ethology list" CC: Subj: RE: DNA question Cecilia Lambert wrote: > I have just been told that Hotei, my coyote puppy that > I got this year has wolf in his Y chromosome. Can > they now deffirentiate between wolf and dog? Can > someone explain more about this to me? Presuming that a wolf Y chromosome can now be distinguished clearly from a coyote one, and also from a dog one, "wolf in the Y chromosome" could mean that the sire was a wolf, or that there was a wolf sire 20 or 50 generations ago in the "tail male" line. The Y chromosome is inherited only in the "tail male" line, as mtDNA is inherited only in the "tail female" line, and that is all they can tell us about any pedigree. That limitation is sometimes overlooked in discussions of cladistics based on mtDNA or Y chromosomes. It is, or at least can be, a very important constraint on the information obtainable from mtDNA or Y chromosome descent trees. Is this coyote pup from the Northeast, or at least from East of the Mississippi? John -- Dr. John Burchard Tepe Gawra Salukis http://saluqi.home.netcom.com/ saluqi@ix.netcom.com From: IN%"ceannicrc@yahoo.com" "Cecilia Lambert" 20-JUL-2004 09:50:20.92 To: IN%"saluqi@ix.netcom.com" "John Burchard", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: DNA question This is an Indiana Coyote. I had heard that the northeastern coyote had moved into the eastern part of Ohio, but did not know it was in Indiana. Do you know if there have been comparison studies done on the red wolves and the ne coyotes as far as DNA goes? --- John Burchard wrote: > Cecilia Lambert wrote: > > > I have just been told that Hotei, my coyote puppy > that > > I got this year has wolf in his Y chromosome. Can > > they now deffirentiate between wolf and dog? Can > > someone explain more about this to me? > > Presuming that a wolf Y chromosome can now be > distinguished clearly from a > coyote one, and also from a dog one, "wolf in the Y > chromosome" could mean that > the sire was a wolf, or that there was a wolf sire > 20 or 50 generations ago in > the "tail male" line. The Y chromosome is inherited > only in the "tail male" > line, as mtDNA is inherited only in the "tail > female" line, and that is all they > can tell us about any pedigree. > > That limitation is sometimes overlooked in > discussions of cladistics based on > mtDNA or Y chromosomes. It is, or at least can be, > a very important constraint > on the information obtainable from mtDNA or Y > chromosome descent trees. > > Is this coyote pup from the Northeast, or at least > from East of the Mississippi? > > John > -- > Dr. John Burchard > Tepe Gawra Salukis > http://saluqi.home.netcom.com/ > saluqi@ix.netcom.com > ===== CeAnn Lambert Indiana Coyote Rescue Center www.WolfPark.org/ICRC __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From: IN%"simon@gadbois.org" "Simon Gadbois" 20-JUL-2004 11:18:22.30 To: IN%"ceannicrc@yahoo.com" "Cecilia Lambert" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Ethology" Subj: RE: DNA question On 20-Jul-04, at 12:23 PM, Cecilia Lambert wrote: > This is an Indiana Coyote. I had heard that the > northeastern coyote had moved into the eastern part of > Ohio, but did not know it was in Indiana. > Do you know if there have been comparison studies > done on the red wolves and the ne coyotes as far as > DNA goes? > I believe Wayne and his team have done such comparisons, leading to the current confusion on the red wolf status. Example: Wayne, R. K. (1993). Molecular Evolution of the dog family. Trends in Genetics, 9, 218-224. The following paper is the most relevant to your question I believe: Wilson, P. J., Grewal, S., Lawford, I.D., Heal, J. N. M., Granacki, A. G., Pennock, D., Theberge, J. B., Theberge, M. T., Voigt, D. R., Waddell, W., Chambers, R. E., Paquet, P. C., Goulet, G., Cluff, D. & White, B. N. (2000). DNA profiles of the eastern Canadian wolf and the red wolf provide evidence for a common evolutionary history independent of the gray wolf. Canadian Journal of Zoology, 78, 2156-2166. Simon --- Simon Gadbois, Ph.D. Dalhousie University Behavioural endocrinology & animal behaviour. Behaviour of wolves, coyotes and red foxes. http://www.gadbois.org/ From: IN%"pajor@purdue.edu" "Pajor, Edmond A." 22-JUL-2004 14:56:40.41 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"ISAEnet-l@usask.ca" CC: Subj: Post-doc, ph.d. student wanted Greetings I have received funding for 1) a post-doctoral scholar to work on developing a valid and efficient procedure for quantifying motivation strength in gestating sows. (2 year contract) 2) a ph.d. student to work on gestating sow motivation for various environmental enrichments (3 years) A second Ph.D. stipend to examine alternative farrowing systems has not yet been funded but I am fairly confident it will be. If you are interested please let me know. I look forward to speaking to interested individuals at the Helsinki meeting. A formal email annoucment of these positions will be made after the ISAE congress Exact start dates for these positions is not yet known although I am anticipating Jan 2005. Cheers Ed Dr. Ed Pajor. Ph.D. Animal welfare and behavior Dept. of Animal Sciences Purdue University Poultry Science Building 125 S.Russell Street West Lafayette, IN 47904-2042 PH: 765-496-6665 Fax 765-494-9347 Email: pajor@purdue.edu From: IN%"Canidresearch@aol.com" 23-JUL-2004 09:39:16.88 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Internship We have one last minute opening for a position at Shelter Smart. This paid internship is for students interested in working in the sheltering field, focusing on research, behavior modification, and program development. This program is designed to train interns so that, upon completion of their Masters or Ph.D., they are better qualified for certification as a behaviorist, and ready to enter the growing sheltering field. Interns will be involved in research, program development, meetings with clients, and phone help lines. Interns will also work one-on-one with shelter residents, conduct workshops and assist in training staff. Requirements: Masters or Ph.D. level students preferred. GPA of 3.4 or better. Must have completed courses in learning theory, animal behavior and psychobiology or biological psychology. Experience in animal training is strongly recommended, as is a working knowledge of canines and felines. Interns will work under the direction of Emily Weiss, Ph.D., Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist, and will be living in Milwaukee during the internship. Modest stipend and funds for housing are available. To apply, send CV and 2 letters of reference to Emily Weiss at address listed below. Please send ASAP - Emily Weiss, Ph.D., CAAB EWC 2672 SW Indianola Benton, KS, 67017 (316) 778-1991 www.emilyweiss.com Providing Positive Humane Solutions From: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com" 25-JUL-2004 14:52:12.93 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Acting on second triggering event. Can a dog (or similarly smart animal) be trained to act on the second command given? That is call you train a dog to only sit when you say sit a second time? Similarly can they be trained to act only on the second of 2 disparate commands, roll-over followed by sit only elicits the sit behavior? From: IN%"jurskivan@hi.htnet.hr" "Marko Jirasek" 25-JUL-2004 18:04:04.25 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied-Ethology" CC: Subj: books review please Hi all I'm about to buy some books but I'm affraid that because they have been written some time ago, they might contain outdated info and procedures. If there's any behaviourist or other specialist who is familiar with the following titles 1.Canine and feline behavioral therapy - Benjamin L Hart (1985) 2.Cat Behavior: The Predatory and Social Behavior of Domestic and Wild Cats - Paul Leyhausen (1978) to kindly send me a note with her/his opinion. Also, since I'm on a waiting list for book nr 2 (out of print for a long time), I'd appreciate a hint where to find it. Both books are often quoted and referenced in modern titles. Thank you in advance, sincerely Marko Jirasek www.turkishvan.cjb.net www.macja-posla.cjb.net From: IN%"probards@ozemail.com.au" "Pat Robards" 25-JUL-2004 20:36:43.94 To: IN%"jurskivan@hi.htnet.hr" "Marko Jirasek", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: books review please Hi there Marko, Canine and feline behavioral therapy - Benjamin L Hart (1985) is still excellent, I don't need mine now, send me your snail address by private mail and you can have it. Pat Robards Australia http://www.k9events.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Marko Jirasek To: Applied-Ethology Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 10:03 AM Subject: books review please Hi all I'm about to buy some books but I'm affraid that because they have been written some time ago, they might contain outdated info and procedures. If there's any behaviourist or other specialist who is familiar with the following titles 1.Canine and feline behavioral therapy - Benjamin L Hart (1985) 2.Cat Behavior: The Predatory and Social Behavior of Domestic and Wild Cats - Paul Leyhausen (1978) to kindly send me a note with her/his opinion. Also, since I'm on a waiting list for book nr 2 (out of print for a long time), I'd appreciate a hint where to find it. Both books are often quoted and referenced in modern titles. Thank you in advance, sincerely Marko Jirasek www.turkishvan.cjb.net www.macja-posla.cjb.net From: IN%"olsson@ibmc.up.pt" "Anna Olsson" 30-JUL-2004 01:08:12.82 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: PAACO More information about this initiative (cited from Farmed Animal Watch) would be welcome: "A coalition of groups representing veterinarians and animal scientists who work with farmed animals is forming a new certification program for animal auditors. The Professional Animal Auditor Certification Organization (PAACO) has as its mission "to promote the humane treatment of animals through education and certification of animal auditors and to promote the profession of animal auditors." The effort is said to represent the first time that veterinarians and animal scientists have organized under one group to focus on the humane treatment of farmed animals. Officials from the coalition's member groups say that the program will result in a more highly trained force of inspectors who conduct on-farm audits. The coalition's first board of directors meeting was held in St. Louis, Missouri on July 24." Thanks, Anna O From: IN%"stammwood@rcn.com" 30-JUL-2004 06:04:51.69 To: CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: PAACO Check out: http://www.porkmag.com/news_editorial.asp?pgID=675&ed_id=2830 Cissy Anna Olsson wrote: > More information about this initiative (cited from Farmed Animal Watch) > would be welcome: > > > > "A coalition of groups representing veterinarians and animal scientists > who work with farmed animals is forming a new certification program for > animal auditors. The Professional Animal Auditor Certification > Organization (PAACO) has as its mission "to promote the humane treatment > of animals through education and certification of animal auditors and to > promote the profession of animal auditors." The effort is said to > represent the first time that veterinarians and animal scientists have > organized under one group to focus on the humane treatment of farmed > animals. Officials from the coalition's member groups say that the > program will result in a more highly trained force of inspectors who > conduct on-farm audits. The coalition's first board of directors meeting > was held in St. Louis, Missouri on July 24." > > > > Thanks, > > Anna O From: IN%"Rexxie1@aol.com" 30-JUL-2004 10:30:39.26 To: IN%"olsson@ibmc.up.pt", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: PAACO _http://www.fass.org/pr_seminar.htm_ (http://www.fass.org/pr_seminar.htm) Anna, also check out the above announcement of a seminar the day following. Amy Kemp of FASS says that there will eventually be a proceedings of the seminar. People who were not able to attend could order the speeches from FASS. Marlene Halverson ---------- More information about this initiative (cited from Farmed Animal Watch) would be welcome: "A coalition of groups representing veterinarians and animal scientists who work with farmed animals is forming a new certification program for animal auditors. The Professional Animal Auditor Certification Organization (PAACO) has as its mission "to promote the humane treatment of animals through education and certification of animal auditors and to promote the profession of animal auditors." The effort is said to represent the first time that veterinarians and animal scientists have organized under one group to focus on the humane treatment of farmed animals. Officials from the coalition's member groups say that the program will result in a more highly trained force of inspectors who conduct on-farm audits. The coalition's first board of directors meeting was held in St. Louis, Missouri on July 24." Thanks, Anna O From: IN%"gooddog@dodo.com.au" "Geiger" 31-JUL-2004 03:48:39.01 To: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Acting on second triggering event. That is a really great question. I am guessing they can be trained to respond to the 2nd command.=20 Jackie Perkins -----Original Message----- From: Michalchik@aol.com [mailto:Michalchik@aol.com]=20 Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 6:52 AM To: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Subject: Acting on second triggering event. Can a dog (or=A0similarly smart animal)=A0be trained to act on the = second command given? That is call you train a dog to only sit when you say sit a second time? Similarly can they be trained to act only on the second of 2 disparate commands, roll-over followed by sit only elicits the sit behavior? From: IN%"jraustin@telusplanet.net" "Jackie Wepruk & Rick Austin" 31-JUL-2004 07:54:14.08 To: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Acting on second triggering event. I do obedience with my Siberians, and if I'm understanding your question - yes, I think they can. I will 'proof' a command in a number of ways but two games I play with my obedience dogs are: 1)Say 'sit' - dog sits - say 'sit' again - does dog remain sitting? - great, lots of praise - does dog offer another behaviour (which they often will thinking you must want something else)? - oops, try again (I use the word 'wrong' to indicate that wasn't what I had asked for). 2)An old instructor called this one the 'peanut butter game' (have no idea why). Tell dog to do something, e.g., 'down' - dog downs - tell dog to do something non-sensible but using the first consonant of another command e.g., 'saddle' 'sickle' etc. - does dog try to sit? - oops, try again - keep doing this until dog realizes that this isn't a command and then offer the real command - 'sit' - does he do it? - big reward and praise - if he doesn't help him understand. NO corrections, lots of body language to indicate that this is a game and the dogs love it - you can see the wheels turning. These exercises are used to teach the dog to listen to the whole word and further discriminate when a command is being given. I don't really understand the purpose of the second example you gave. If they do not respond to rollover, then the word either has no meaning or it has been used as a bridge to the second word - in which case its meaning may now be 'pay attention, I'm going to ask you to sit right away.' In this case, then the word does illicit a behaviour - attention to the handler. In obedience I use the word 'ready' to indicate that we're about to do something so pay attention. The dog is expected to look up at me and pay attention until given further instruction. Jackie Wepruk -----Original Message----- From: Michalchik@aol.com [mailto:Michalchik@aol.com] Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 6:52 AM To: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Subject: Acting on second triggering event. Can a dog (or similarly smart animal) be trained to act on the second command given? That is call you train a dog to only sit when you say sit a second time? Similarly can they be trained to act only on the second of 2 disparate commands, roll-over followed by sit only elicits the sit behavior?