From: IN%"s.berry@elsevier.com" "Berry, Suzanne SB (ELS-LON)" 8-JUN-2007 10:05:42.50 To: IN%"applied-ethology@usask.ca" "applied-ethology network" CC: Subj: Reminder - event tomoorrow: Animals and Us - a morning exploring the human-animal relationship - Surrey, UK There are still a few tickets available, just turn up and pay at the door. June 9th 2007 - Animals and Us Date: June 9th 2007 Venue: Adult Learning Block, Woking College, Woking, Surrey. In easy reach of the M25, A3, M3 and M4 and in walking distance from Woking railway station (20 minutes by train from London Waterloo). Time: 9.45am-1.30pm This event will consist of two talks: 1) Pets and humans: This talk will involve a discussion into why it is important to consider the ethology and behavioural needs of wild animal counterparts in their natural habitat if we are to ensure a greater understanding of the welfare of our domestic animals. The aim is to propose why such a scientific approach is essential to achieving this, rather than relying on the more common anthropomorphic approach to domestic animals needs. The talk will include references to dogs, cats, horses and small exotics such as rabbits and tortoises. Speaker: Cara Williams MA (currently undertaking PhD in research Psychology, specialising in neuropsychology): Deputy Manager and lecturer at the Natural Animal Centre Wales - A specialist Animal Behaviour Centre. 2) Wolves and humans: The Wolves and Humans Foundation is a charity dedicated to helping conservation of wolves, as well as bears and lynx, by finding solutions to the problems of living alongside people, through practical measures, education and research. Troy Bennett will be talking about the return of the wolf in France and the effect it had (and continues to have) on the farming community there. Tickets available now. £15.00 only available in advance. £12 concessions or if you volunteer or work for an animal-related charity. Please give details of your connection to a charity to qualify for this reduced ticket price. Suzanne Learning About Animals - 07961 996628 www.learningaboutanimals.co.uk This email is from Elsevier Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 1982084, whose registered office is The Boulevard, Langford Lane, Kidlington, Oxford, OX5 1GB, United Kingdom. From: IN%"wrstrick@umd.edu" "Ray Stricklin" 8-JUN-2007 15:50:11.49 To: IN%"applied-ethology@usask.ca" CC: Subj: Lions & Buffalo & Crocks - Oh My! Dear All, I recommend watching the following video. The behavioral sequence filmed is remarkable at least - if not incredible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM Regards to all, Ray Stricklin From: IN%"tricia_b@comcast.net" "Tricia Breen" 8-JUN-2007 20:28:50.35 To: IN%"applied-ethology@usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Lions & Buffalo & Crocks - Oh My! Wow. Thank-you for sharing. Quite remarkable. Tricia Breen _____ From: Ray Stricklin [mailto:wrstrick@umd.edu] Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 2:50 PM To: applied-ethology@usask.ca Subject: Lions & Buffalo & Crocks - Oh My! Dear All, I recommend watching the following video. The behavioral sequence filmed is remarkable at least - if not incredible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM Regards to all, Ray Stricklin From: IN%"csmith35@nycap.rr.com" "cynthia smith" 9-JUN-2007 07:43:19.15 To: IN%"wrstrick@umd.edu" "Ray Stricklin", IN%"applied-ethology@usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Lions & Buffalo & Crocks - Oh My! I think the best part (besides the calf springing back to life) is when the buffalo rally and bring back the full force of the herd. There's some planning. And how many times have we heard "cattle are so stupid." Hmmmm. When I was a kid I once saw our Jersey milk cow with horns flip a dog in the air just like the buffalo did with the lion. I guess old "Red" had not lost her wild instincts :). Cynthia Smith ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray Stricklin To: applied-ethology@usask.ca Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 5:49 PM Subject: Lions & Buffalo & Crocks - Oh My! Dear All, I recommend watching the following video. The behavioral sequence filmed is remarkable at least - if not incredible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM Regards to all, Ray Stricklin From: IN%"securtis@uiuc.edu" 9-JUN-2007 10:28:33.03 To: IN%"csmith35@nycap.rr.com" "cynthia smith", IN%"wrstrick@umd.edu" "Ray Stricklin", IN%"applied-ethology@usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Lions & Buffalo & Crocks - Oh My! Hi Cynthia (long time . . . )- Of course, Red hadn't lost her instincts- Allan Fraser had it right when he wrote in his book, "Animal Husbnadyr Heresies", that, absent the care and food and protection and treatment they receive at the hands of the huhsbandman, domestic animals revert within the current generation to exhibiting the species' full, original repertory of behavior patterns- In other words, domestic animals gone feral are wild- -Stan Curtis Animal Sciences Department University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign ---- Original message ---- >Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 09:42:36 -0400 >From: cynthia smith >Subject: Re: Lions & Buffalo & Crocks - Oh My! >To: Ray Stricklin , applied-ethology@usask.ca > > I think the best part (besides the calf springing > back to life) is when the buffalo rally and bring > back the full force of the herd. There's some > planning. And how many times have we heard "cattle > are so stupid." Hmmmm. > > When I was a kid I once saw our Jersey milk cow with > horns flip a dog in the air just like the buffalo > did with the lion. I guess old "Red" had not lost > her wild instincts :). > > Cynthia Smith > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ray Stricklin > To: applied-ethology@usask.ca > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 5:49 PM > Subject: Lions & Buffalo & Crocks - Oh My! > > Dear All, > > > > I recommend watching the following video. The > behavioral sequence filmed is remarkable at least > – if not incredible. > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM > > > > Regards to all, > > > > Ray Stricklin From: IN%"brayowc@earthlink.net" "Barbara Ray" 9-JUN-2007 22:06:03.57 To: IN%"applied-ethology@usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Lions & Buffalo & Crocks - Oh My! At 09:42 AM 6/9/2007 -0400, cynthia smith wrote: >I think the best part (besides the calf springing back to life) is >when the buffalo rally and bring back the full force of the herd. The cape buffalo are exceedingly adept at making use of the "safety-in-numbers" techniques to prevent calf loss and, in this case, work to regain the safety of their calf. The calf was vocalising the entire time, indicating to the herd that he was still very much alive and the state of his wellness. The distress vocalisations seem to give the adults the incentive to choose certain defensive behaviors relative to the type of vocalisation. This calf had strong vocalisations which spurred the adults to not only attempt to intimade the lions, but to "work the line" (that invisible margin where the buffalo advance repeatedly, but just out of reach of slashing claws, biding their time and looking for each moment to strike with hoof or horn) and actually try and drive them off. (There are plenty of sequences to observe in the wild where the calf is mortally wounded, and the adults will harrass and intimidate and behave in varying degrees of agitation and arousal, but seem to know an attempt to actually save the calf will be futile, so will be less inclined to boldly expose themselves to further harm. In short, they know when they have been beat and when they have not; here the bulls knew they had not yet been beat and clearly sought opportunity to do enough damage to loose the lions away from their calf, and to persist at it until they were able to succeed. If you watch the sequence carefully, you can track this dangerous dance that works so well because the lions cannot possibly focus on any one buffalo and not risk a kick or goring from another. I find one of the most interesting parts of the video is the crocodile launching his grab on the calf. With the frenzy churning the water, it is not unusual for crocs to simply grab anyone in the water iin front of them in the moment. But this croc launched right past the hindquarters of what could have been a hapless lion, because he had already targeted the vulnerable calf, likely by scent, and was targeting that right out of the water, basically a free meal the lions had already done the hard part of restraining him. Someone had asked why the two adults with the calf initially got so close to the lions...the lions appear to be behind a bit of a ridge on the rim of the water, and they are downwind. As soon as the lions, who were just "hanging out" and accustomed to prey moving about aware of their presence, realise the buffalo cannot see them or smell them, they begin to crouch and prepare to launch as this stroke of lion-luck comes their way. You can clearly see the moment the bull walks in to the first scent cone, (snorts and blows) determines the severity of the threat, and turns and bolts. This is one of the more remarkable sequences I have ever seen, and the human behavior in the background is rather entertaining too! Barbara Ray From: IN%"saluqi@ix.netcom.com" "John Burchard" 10-JUN-2007 22:20:08.80 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology list" CC: Subj: RE: Lions & Buffalo & Crocks - Oh My! Stanley Curtis wrote: > Hi Cynthia (long time . . . )- > > Of course, Red hadn't lost her instincts- Allan Fraser had it right > when he wrote in his book, "Animal Husbnadyr Heresies", that, absent > the care and food and protection and treatment they receive at the > hands of the huhsbandman, domestic animals revert within the current > generation to exhibiting the species' full, original repertory of > behavior patterns- In other words, domestic animals gone feral are > wild- They may be wild, and absent the conditioning of young domestics growing up under domestic circumstances may display behavior unexpected by those accustomed only to their actions as domesticates, but the genetic effects on behavior of many generations of selection under domestication are not undone within the current generation. It's remarkable how much is conserved, in spite of non-use under domestic circumstances, but feral domesticates still differ behaviorally as well as anatomically and physiologically from their wild ancestors. All the behavior elements may (or may not) still be there, but even if they are, the "fine tuning" is not likely to be so precise or so comprehensive as in the wild population. Two interesting examples are inbreeding avoidance mechanisms, and the fine tuning of when, where and under what circumstances reproduction takes place. Inbreeding avoidance, and the extreme "choosiness" which enables wild animals to spend their reproductive capital where it does the most good, are both inconvenient in the breeding of domestic animals - or even the captive breeding of wild ones - and so are very strongly selected against in the first few captive generations. That is (again for example) a major concern (or at least it should be) in the captive breeding of wild animals for eventual release in endangered-species survival programs. Not all individuals taken from the wild are equally successful at reproducing in captivity - and there you already have very strong selection, whether or not anyone notices it . Those individuals most successful at reproducing in captivity, especially in the first few generations, are probably (and indeed almost certainly) not the ones that would be most successful in the wild ... and to think that does not have profound genetic effects, is about equivalent to believing in the tooth fairy . John -- Dr. John Burchard Tepe Gawra Salukis saluqi@ix.netcom.com http://saluqi.home.netcom.com/ John -- John E. Burchard, Ph.D. Tepe Gawra Salukis saluqi@ix.netcom.com http://saluqi.home.netcom.com/