Subject: observable and measurable From: Anna Olsson Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 17:33:08 +0100 To: applied-ethology@usask.ca Dear all, Last week I attended the FELASA congress on laboratory animal science, and encountered an interesting distinction. The speaker discussed criteria for humane endpoints in xenoplantation research with primates, which he based on "measurable" (body weight, body temperature) and "observable" (behaviour) phenomena. I found this interesting for the philosophy of applied ethology. Probably most of us strive to make "observable" phenomena measurable, by converting behaviours into time spent, number of animals performing etc, although others (Wemelsfelder) argue that this is reductionist. Any comments? Regards, Anna Dr Anna Olsson Researcher Laboratory Animal Science group http://www.ibmc.up.pt http://ethos.no.sapo.pt Institute for Molecular and Cell Biology - IBMC Rua Campo Alegre 823 4150-180 Porto, Portugal Phone +351 22 607 4900 Fax +351 22 6099157 Subject: Re: observable and measurable From: Stanley Curtis Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 18:46:43 -0500 (CDT) To: Anna Olsson , applied-ethology@usask.ca Anna et alia- Thank you, Anna- The matter is "tnteresting", to say the least, and not to mention "central, crucial, essential" to the assessment of animal satte of being- The acknowledgement by the speaker to whom Anna Olsson refers that there is a difference, in terms of criteria for humane endpoints, between "measurable" and "observable" is a good thing- Now what is needed is general acknowledgement of the notion that something that is only "observable" -- but not "measurable" -- should not be serving as a valid criterion for a humane endpoint in any science-based assessment of an animal's state of bieng- Peter Drucker: "You can't manage what you can't measure."- Sir William Thomson, Lord Kelvin: "When you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of Science (sic), whatever the matter may be."- Ross Konig: "The scientific method, then, is founded upon direct observation of the world around us. A scientist looks critically and attempts to avoid all sources of bias in this observation. But more than looking, a scientist measures to quantify the observations; this helps in avoiding bias."- A definition for "observe" in the subject context is "to see, watch, perceive, or notice"- Hence, "observable" presumably is short for "seeable, watchable, perceptible, or noticeable by a (single) observer"- The problem with this in terms of the pracical assessment of animal welfare on farms and in laboratories and other settings is that it is "subjective" -- that is, "existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought (as opposed to objective); pertaining to or characteristic of an individual; personal; individual: a subjective evaluation; placing excessive emphasis on one's own moods, attitudes, opinions, etc.; unduly egocentric."- To be useful, practical schemes for assessment of an animal' state of being must be "objective" -- that is, "intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings; being the object of perception or thought; belonging to the object of thought rather than to the thinking subject (as opposed to subjective); of or pertaining to something that can be known, or to something that is an object or a part of an object; existing independent of thought or an observer as part of reality."- Standardization of endpoints is a critical necessity as we move toward more regulation of animal husbandry- For one thing, there is the matter of fairness- If, for example, farmers' animal-production operations are to be evaluated and certified as to their suitability for producing food for human consumption based on standards of animal state of being, then obviously those standards must be the same -- that is, "objective" -- for all farms- There is no place at all for bias, intuition, or opinion on the part of an assessor or auditor of animal state of being- Stanley Curtis Department of Animal Sciences University of Illinois at Urbana-Chgampaign ---- Original message ---- > >Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 17:33:08 +0100 > >From: Anna Olsson > >Subject: observable and measurable > >To: applied-ethology@usask.ca > > > >Dear all, > > > >Last week I attended the FELASA congress on laboratory animal science, and encountered an interesting distinction. The speaker discussed criteria for humane endpoints in xenoplantation research with primates, which he based on "measurable" (body weight, body temperature) and "observable" (behaviour) phenomena. I found this interesting for the philosophy of applied ethology. Probably most of us strive to make "observable" phenomena measurable, by converting behaviours into time spent, number of animals performing etc, although others (Wemelsfelder) argue that this is reductionist. Any comments? > > > >Regards, > >Anna > > > >Dr Anna Olsson > >Researcher > >Laboratory Animal Science group > >http://www.ibmc.up.pt > >http://ethos.no.sapo.pt > > > >Institute for Molecular and Cell Biology - IBMC > >Rua Campo Alegre 823 > >4150-180 Porto, Portugal > >Phone +351 22 607 4900 > >Fax +351 22 6099157 > > > > Subject: urban coyotes From: doggiepause@comcast.net Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 14:21:20 +0000 To: applied-ethology@usask.ca I am looking for current research on coyotes in urban areas, vis a vis their actions with humans. Can anyone point me in the right direction? -- Judy Gee Subject: RE: observable and measurable From: Rick Bogle Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 09:57:52 -0500 To: applied-ethology@usask.ca --- It's all well and good for science to strive toward measurement and quantification of observable phenomena, but the notion that "humane endpoints" need to be based on measurable criteria alone seems (I can't think of a word to use here that might not be offensive.) It I accidentally hit an animal while driving and get out to find him or her writhing in what appears to be agony from a crushed pelvis, I don't need to call an "expert" or to check her blood pressure or cortisol levels and compare them with some index. I kill the animal based on purely observable data. Likewise, a vet (or nearly anyone with much experience with animals of the species at hand) should be able to make an observation, based on unquantified experience alone, that an animal is suffering, and make a decision, based on nothing more than their impression, that the animal should be killed. They should not need nor be required to compare the animal's quantified behavior profile against some ideal. The notion of "humane endpoints" come into play in situations where it is believed likely or possible that an animal will or may be increasingly uncomfortable. Whenever something changes gradually over time (like light levels or sound volume or an animal's well-being) we are apt to miss the change for a time. "Humane endpoints" should force us to monitor these possible changes and to plan ahead in the event that some threshold is reached. (I'd argue that this is really the threshold of our own emotional discomfort, but that's another matter.) Rick Bogle Madison, Wisconsin > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Stanley Curtis [mailto:securtis@uiuc.edu] > > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 6:47 PM > > To: Anna Olsson; applied-ethology@usask.ca > > Subject: Re: observable and measurable > > > > > > > > > > Anna et alia- > > > > Thank you, Anna- The matter is "tnteresting", to say the least, > > and not to mention "central, crucial, essential" to the > > assessment of animal satte of being- > > > > The acknowledgement by the speaker to whom Anna Olsson refers > > that there is a difference, in terms of criteria for humane > > endpoints, between "measurable" and "observable" is a good thing- > > Now what is needed is general acknowledgement of the notion that > > something that is only "observable" -- but not "measurable" -- > > should not be serving as a valid criterion for a humane endpoint > > in any science-based assessment of an animal's state of bieng- > > > > Peter Drucker: "You can't manage what you can't measure."- > > > > Sir William Thomson, Lord Kelvin: "When you cannot measure it, > > when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a > > meagre and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of > > knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the > > state of Science (sic), whatever the matter may be."- > > > > Ross Konig: "The scientific method, then, is founded upon direct > > observation of the world around us. A scientist looks critically > > and attempts to avoid all sources of bias in this observation. > > But more than looking, a scientist measures to quantify the > > observations; this helps in avoiding bias."- > > > > A definition for "observe" in the subject context is "to see, > > watch, perceive, or notice"- > > > > Hence, "observable" presumably is short for "seeable, watchable, > > perceptible, or noticeable by a (single) observer"- > > > > The problem with this in terms of the pracical assessment of > > animal welfare on farms and in laboratories and other settings is > > that it is "subjective" -- that is, "existing in the mind; > > belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of > > thought (as opposed to objective); pertaining to or > > characteristic of an individual; personal; individual: a > > subjective evaluation; placing excessive emphasis on one's own > > moods, attitudes, opinions, etc.; unduly egocentric."- > > > > To be useful, practical schemes for assessment of an animal' > > state of being must be "objective" -- that is, "intent upon or > > dealing with things external to the mind rather than with > > thoughts or feelings; being the object of perception or thought; > > belonging to the object of thought rather than to the thinking > > subject (as opposed to subjective); of or pertaining to something > > that can be known, or to something that is an object or a part of > > an object; existing independent of thought or an observer as part > > of reality."- > > > > Standardization of endpoints is a critical necessity as we move > > toward more regulation of animal husbandry- For one thing, there > > is the matter of fairness- If, for example, farmers' > > animal-production operations are to be evaluated and certified as > > to their suitability for producing food for human consumption > > based on standards of animal state of being, then obviously those > > standards must be the same -- that is, "objective" -- for all farms- > > > > There is no place at all for bias, intuition, or opinion on the > > part of an assessor or auditor of animal state of being- > > > > Stanley Curtis > > Department of Animal Sciences > > University of Illinois at Urbana-Chgampaign > > > > > > ---- Original message ---- >> > >Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 17:33:08 +0100 >> > >From: Anna Olsson >> > >Subject: observable and measurable >> > >To: applied-ethology@usask.ca >> > > >> > >Dear all, >> > > >> > >Last week I attended the FELASA congress on laboratory animal > > science, and encountered an interesting distinction. The speaker > > discussed criteria for humane endpoints in xenoplantation > > research with primates, which he based on "measurable" (body > > weight, body temperature) and "observable" (behaviour) phenomena. > > I found this interesting for the philosophy of applied ethology. > > Probably most of us strive to make "observable" phenomena > > measurable, by converting behaviours into time spent, number of > > animals performing etc, although others (Wemelsfelder) argue that > > this is reductionist. Any comments? >> > > >> > >Regards, >> > >Anna >> > > >> > >Dr Anna Olsson >> > >Researcher >> > >Laboratory Animal Science group >> > >http://www.ibmc.up.pt >> > >http://ethos.no.sapo.pt >> > > >> > >Institute for Molecular and Cell Biology - IBMC >> > >Rua Campo Alegre 823 >> > >4150-180 Porto, Portugal >> > >Phone +351 22 607 4900 >> > >Fax +351 22 6099157 >> > > >> > > > > Subject: Re: urban coyotes From: Sam Bremner-Harrison Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 09:53:33 -0700 To: doggiepause@comcast.net, applied-ethology@usask.ca Have you tried Stan Gehrt's group at Ohio State University? They do a lot of work with urban coyotes in the Chicago metropolitan area. Best wishes, Sam Dr Samantha Bremner-Harrison Research Biologist/Adjunct Professor CSU Stanislaus Endangered Species Recovery Program P.O. Box 9622 Bakersfield CA 93389 Office: 661 835 7810 Cell: 661 549 8678 Email: sbremnerharrison@esrp.csustan.edu http://esrp.csustan.edu/csus/ At 02:21 PM 6/19/2007 +0000, doggiepause@comcast.net wrote: > I am looking for current research on coyotes in urban areas, vis a vis their actions with humans. Can anyone point me in the right direction? > -- > Judy Gee Subject: Assistant Journal Editor Position Available at the AVMA From: "Dr. Gail Golab" Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:58:08 -0500 To: "Dr. Gail Golab" CC: applied-ethology@usask.ca, avsab@yahoogroups.com Hi everyone, In the hopes of tapping talented individuals who might have an interest in sharing their valuable expertise in a new context, I am letting you know about the availability of a staff position at the American Veterinary Medical Association in its Publications Division working on the AVMA Journals. Generally our scientific editorial positions have been restricted to DVMs who have demonstrable research experience/training, but we have now broadened the field of qualified applicants to include individuals with PhDs in a field relevant to veterinary medicine who have research experience in applied or clinical veterinary medical topics. Please feel free to circulate and post as you find appropriate. This position is full-time and resident at AVMA headquarters in Schaumburg, Illinois--telecommuting/freelancing is not currently an option. The only closing date for applications is when the position has been filled. Warm regards, Gail Gail C. Golab, PhD, DVM Associate Director, Animal Welfare AVMA Subject: lemur enrichment From: Susana Canteiro Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:03:24 +0100 To: Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Hi everyone, I’m co-orienting a study about environmental enrichment for ring-tailed lemurs (Lemur catta). I'm looking for ideas of items easily put into and taken from the enclosure, because we’re planning to observe the behavior every day (alternating with and without the enrichment) to prevent major climate changes and alterations in the group dynamics (there are 4 infants), that could interfere with the results when comparing the behavior of the lemurs in each situation (with/without environmental enrichment). The items should be resistant enough to be used, at least, during one observation session (60-90 minutes). Any ideas about food items and other types of enrichment would be great! The observer is having some difficulty recognizing each individual (there are 12 lemurs). Does anyone know about marking techniques that could help, without changing their behavior. Many thanks! Susana Canteiro Subject: Cambridge Animal Welfare Course From: Donald Broom Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:29:08 +0100 To: Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca -- Professor Donald M. Broom Colleen Macleod Professor of Animal Welfare Centre for Animal Welfare and Anthrozoology Department of Veterinary Medicine University of Cambridge Madingley Road CAMBRIDGE CB3 0ES U.K. Telephone 0044 (0)1223 337697 Fax 0044 (0)1223 337610 and St Catharine's College Cambridge CB2 1RL U.K. 0044 (0)1223 338344 e-mail dmb16@cam.ac.uk Subject: HAB research grant opportunity From: "Martin, Francois" Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:31:39 -0700 To: humananimalstudies@yahoogroups.com, CVM Faculty , ISAZlist@yahoogroups.com, applied-ethology@usask.ca The WALTHAM/AAH-ABV Collaborate to Support Human-Animal Bond Research WALTHAM and The American Association of Human-Animal Bond Veterinarians (AAH-ABV) are collaborating in order to stimulate new research in the area of human-animal interactions, with particular interest in the impact of pets on the physical well-being of children, the role of pets in the lives of elders, and the impact of culture on the human-animal bond. This collaborative effort offers an award of up to US$20,000 to support well-conceived and relevant proposals addressing human-animal bond issues. This is a competitive grant, and applications will be considered based upon their scientific merit and compliance with ethical standards. It is expected that recipients of a WALTHAM/AAH-ABV award will work at a university or research institute that provides basic research facilities, and will publish their research in scientific journals so that companion animals around the world benefit from the research. Proposals must be submitted by September 1, 2007, and the award will be announced by October 2007. Research must be completed within two years of receiving the award. AAH-ABV provides education, resources and support that enhance the ability of veterinarians to create positive and ethical relationships among people, animals, and their environment. The WALTHAM Centre for Pet Nutrition is a state-of-the-art pet care facility in the United Kingdom dedicated to progressing the health and welfare of pets worldwide. For more information and to download an application form, please go to www.aahabv.org Francois Martin, M.A., Ph.D. Associate Director of the Center for the Study of Animal Well-being and Head of the People-Pet Partnership College of Veterinary Medicine Washington State University PO Box 647010 Pullman WA 99164-7010 509 335.4569 fmartin@vetmed.wsu.edu