From: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol" 2-MAR-1999 01:28:26.95 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'ethology'" CC: Subj: Cattle - effects of noise and/or dust Hi All Another request from me. Does anyone have any information on the effects of noise and/or dust on the behaviour and/or liveweight performance of cattle. I read a recent paper by Joe S and co., and there's snippets of info. in Temple's books/papers, but does anybody know of more data? This relates to a pipeline laying activity (lots of it with heavy machinery) across extensive country (short term; 21 days) and the claim is that this had dramatic effects on weight gains. I'm reluctant to go into too much detail here (being rather public!), but am wondered if anyone has any anecdotal or other information that might have a bearing on this. I know that some claims for compensation were made in the US 2 or 3 decades ago in relation to sonic booms; is there anything more than this? I'd appreciate your help in this. Thanks. Carol Petherick DPI TBC PO Box 5545 Rockhampton Qld 4702 Australia tel: (0)7 4923 8200 fax: (0)7 4923 8222 e-mail: petherc@dpi.qld.gov.au From: IN%"mappleby@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk" "Mike Appleby" 2-MAR-1999 03:16:48.09 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Cattle - effects of noise and/or dust Carol > Another request from me. Does anyone have any information on the effects of > noise and/or dust on the behaviour and/or liveweight performance of cattle. > This relates to > a pipeline laying activity No, but this reminds me of a good story - I've no idea of the source. Cows on a farm were behaving strangely, bumping into things and so on. Turned out they were standing watching a welder working on the pipeline at the bottom of the field. The welder was wearing goggles, but not surprisingly the cows' vision was suffering. Solution: someone (who? The local optician?) made dark glasses for the cows too. And no, the source isn't Gary Larsen. Mike Michael Appleby Dr M.C. Appleby Director of Postgraduate Studies in Agriculture & Resource Economics Institute of Ecology and Resource Management University of Edinburgh West Mains Road Edinburgh EH9 3JG, UK Tel. +44 131 535 4098 Fax. +44 131 667 2601 Email mappleby@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk or michael.appleby@ed.ac.uk From: IN%"S.Gragert@t-online.de" 2-MAR-1999 05:34:44.77 To: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology" Subj: RE: Cattle - effects of noise and/or dust Dear Carol, > Hi All > Another request from me. Does anyone have any information on the effects of > noise and/or dust on the behaviour and/or liveweight performance of cattle. just this: The noise level of heavy lorries passing by is around 90 dB. (I suppose it is dB(A), but it is not said) and pneumatic hammers range around 100 to 110 dB.(BRUEL & KJAER 1984, Schallmessung) Noise level depends on distance of course and you have to add 3 dB for any further source of noise of the same kind. Perhaps anybody did research on the effect of noise from other sources and this helps to compare the situations. Stephanie ----------------------- Stephanie Gragert Kochstr. 59 04275 Leipzig Germany Tel/Fax 0049 341 3304368 S.Gragert@t-online.de From: IN%"bregman@interactive.net" "VIVIAN & MICKEY BREGMAN" 2-MAR-1999 06:30:58.00 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Cattle - effects of noise and/or dust At 09:15 AM 3/2/99 +0000, Mike Appleby wrote: >No, but this reminds me of a good story - I've no idea of the source. >Cows on a farm were behaving strangely, bumping into things and so >on. Turned out they were standing watching a welder working on the >pipeline at the bottom of the field. The welder was wearing >goggles, but not surprisingly the cows' vision was suffering. >Solution: someone (who? The local optician?) made dark glasses for >the cows too. > >And no, the source isn't Gary Larsen. > >Mike Not that I doubt the story, but, depending upon the number of cattle (number of cows??) wouldn't it have been easier to set up a folding screen around the welder?? And a lot cheaper?? And why not make dark contact lenses for the cows, easier to keep in the eyes. And wasn't the eye damage permanent?? And I am taking this seriously when it isn't?? Vivian Vivian Bregman -- dog trainer for forty years -- interested in everything to do with science, especially Biology --- bregman@interactive.net From: IN%"J.Durrell@Queens-Belfast.ac.uk" "Julie Durrell" 2-MAR-1999 07:28:59.92 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Labelling welfare foods Janice wrote: Labeling or branding welfare friendly products? This sounds like Freedom Food to me! Any comments from the UK? ***** Coop supermarkets in the UK not only labels their eggs as "free range" but also as "produced by hens in battery cages" (or at least they used to). Promoting certain produce as "non welfare friendly" is probably more effective than promoting "welfare friendly" produce, as far as getting consumers to buy the latter is concerned. Don't know if this is relevant - I have the habit of skim reading, so my background to the discussion is a bit sketchy. Julie Durrell School of Psychology, Queen's University of Belfast. From: IN%"arl3342@montana.com" "peggy shunick" 2-MAR-1999 08:12:13.06 To: IN%"J.Durrell@Queens-Belfast.ac.uk" "Julie Durrell", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Labelling welfare foods I understand that there are "predatory friendly" sweaters being marketed at a local store. ...guess I'll have to follow up on this to satisfy my curiosity. Peggy At 01:28 PM 3/2/99 +0000, Julie Durrell wrote: >Janice wrote: > >Labeling or branding welfare friendly products? This sounds like and >relevant - I have the habit of skim reading, so my background to the >discussion is a bit sketchy. > >Julie Durrell >School of Psychology, Queen's University of Belfast. Me, too, Julie (Janice?). Sometimes, I don't do my best keeping up on lists. P Margaret A. (Peggy) Shunick BA, BA, MS (Tufts Center for Animals and Public Policy) PO Box 844 Arlee MT 59821-0844 USA 406-726-3342 arl3342@montana.com From: IN%"gonyou@sask.usask.ca" 2-MAR-1999 08:23:17.15 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: IN%"GONYOU@sask.usask.ca" Subj: Graduate Student Assistantships I have funding for an additional two graduate students. A description of the project areas etc follows: Graduate Student Assistantships Prairie Swine Centre Inc. invites applications for two M.Sc. and/or Ph.D. student positions within our applied ethology research program and graduate program of the Department of Animal and Poultry Science at the University of Saskatchewan. The successful applicants will have the opportunity to participate in innovative research projects. Available project areas are as follows: 1. The importance of diversity within social groups of grower/finisher pigs. 2. The effects of group size on the social and spatial behaviour of grower/finisher pigs. 3. Using animats (computer simulated animals) to determine the space requirements of grower/finisher pigs. 4. The behaviour of early-weaned pigs. 5. Drinking behaviour and water wastage in grower/finisher pigs. 6. Development of an enclosed dunging area as a means of reducing odours in pig barns. 7. Effect of high dietary levels of specific amino acids on pig behaviour. 8. Comparison of dynamic and static management of group housed sows. Requirements. Successful applicants for the M.Sc. positions will have a B.Sc. in animal science or related discipline. The successful applicant for the Ph.D. position will have an M.Sc. in animal science or related discipline, preferably in applied ethology. All applicants must have the entry requirements of the College of Graduate Studies and Research -The University of Saskatchewan. They need strong organizational, communication, and interpersonal skills, and have the intent to work as a member of a research team. Financial assistance is available for stipends (Graduate Research Assistantships) or to supplement existing scholarships. Company. Prairie Swine Centre Inc. is a non-profit research corporation with 38 full- and part-time staff, Post Doctoral Fellows and graduate students. The Centre offers a nationally and internationally recognized program in research, technology transfer, and education, directed to improve the efficiency and sustainability of pork production. The applied ethology program is part of a broader research program that also includes nutrition and engineering. The Centre operates a 280 sow farrow-to-finish swine herd in modern facilities located just outside Saskatoon. The Centre's facilities will be further increased in 1998-1999 with the expansion of the main office building and the construction of a new 600 sow farrow-to-finish operation. On-site animal facilities are complemented by laboratory facilities at the University of Saskatchewan. Additional information is available on our web site at: http://adminserv.usask.ca/psci/ Application procedure. (1) Interested applicants should contact Dr. Harold Gonyou, Prairie Swine Centre Inc., P.O. Box 21057, 2105 - 8th Street East, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, CANADA S7H 5N9 [Phone (306) 477-7450; Fax (306) 955-2510; E-mail gonyou@sask.usask.ca]. (2) A package to apply to the College of Graduate Students and Research will have to be completed. Specifically, one appliction letter, three reference letters, and a CDN$50 application fee need to be sent to Dr. Iain Christison, College of Agriculture, 2D30 - 51 Campus Drive, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, CANADA S7N 5A8 {Phone (306) 966-4064; Fax (306) 966-8894; Iain_Christison@fc.usask.ca]. An application package can be obtained from Dr. Iain Christison or from http://www.usask.ca/cgsr/forms/index.html (forms GSR 100 & 101). Review of application will begin 1999, March 15. Applications will be received until positions are filled. From: IN%"bregman@interactive.net" "VIVIAN & MICKEY BREGMAN" 2-MAR-1999 08:30:50.44 To: IN%"arl3342@montana.com" "peggy shunick", IN%"J.Durrell@Queens-Belfast.ac.uk" "Julie Durrell", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Labelling welfare foods At 07:50 AM 3/2/99 +0000, peggy shunick wrote: >I understand that there are "predatory friendly" sweaters being marketed at >a local store. ...guess I'll have to follow up on this to satisfy my >curiosity. > >Peggy I'm not sure that I would want predatory friendly sweaters. Sounds dangerous. Vivian Vivian Bregman -- dog trainer for forty years -- interested in everything to do with science, especially Biology --- bregman@interactive.net From: IN%"ws31@umail.umd.edu" 2-MAR-1999 09:08:29.26 To: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'ethology'" Subj: RE: Cattle - effects of noise and/or dust Carol, In 1990 a US Federal Court in Reno, Nevada ruled in favor of the US Navy in a case (Nonella vs. US) involving sonic boom influences on range beef cattle. In the court brief, Nonella - the ranch owner - claimed $9,000,000 in damages as a consequence of jet overflight. (It was a large ranch!) His claims in part involved a charge that sonic booms (from Navy training jets out of Falon Naval Station, Nevada) disrupted conception in his cows. Lower conception rates led to lower calf crops which led to his bankruptcy - according to Nonella's claim. The federal government viewed the case as a likely precedent that if lost could lead to a deluge of similar lawsuits. The US Attorney and the Navy JAG invested heavily in time and money in order to lessen the likelihood of losing the case. I worked as an expert witness for the Navy and consultant to the US Attorney in the case. I spent over 6 months working (part-time) on the case and spent about 3 weeks in Nevada gathering information, giving testimony, and attending the trial. I collected some 20 linear feet of file information (reprints, depositions, and other court documents) regarding the influence of noise on animals - which is now stored here in the Animal Science building basement. From the information that I gathered at that time, there is little or no data that would support an argument that noise (even sonic booms) disrupts the behavior and(or) physiology of cattle to the extent claimed by Nonella (he claimed a 30% plus decline in calf crop). Essentially all the info that I was able to obtain indicated that cattle rather quickly habituate to noise and can tolerate rather well even high decibel disruptions such as sonic booms. (Sonic booms seem to be more disruptive for some of the other species especially some avian species. Some sonic booms can also cause considerable startle reactions in most all species including cattle and humans!) Some the papers that I remember that were good "foundation" articles were ones by Roger Ewbank (a very good overview article on sonic booms) and articles by James Bond, a now retired researcher who did considerable work on the influence of noise on livestock at the US Dept of Agriculture, Beltsville Agriculture Research Center here in Maryland. Carol, from the brief info you give below it seems to me that there is more at issue in your situation than just noise. The dust, as you mention, but also the activity of humans and equipment could be "disruptors" for range cattle. (I am assuming that you are not talking about feedlot cattle.) It seems plausible to me that if pipeline activity kept cattle from grazing at the locations where pipe were being laid (and this was the pasture area with better forage), then gain could be influenced. But if this is the case, then I would argue that it is not the noise - or not the noise alone - that is the problem. (In other words even if the construction workers and equipment were very quite, their presence could still be disruptive to range cattle.) Regarding, Nonella, he in my opinion lost his ranch because of high interest rates and heavy debt load. (He was some $1 to $2 million in debt _before_ the Navy started super sonic overflight.) But he was also one of the most colorful characters that I have every met. He was the personification of Hoss Cartwright in the old TV series "Bonanza." Becoming a participant in litigation involving a livestock producer can be difficult for we researchers especially if ones personal sentiments lie on the opposite side of the court room from where the legal torts (and research data) indicate the judicial ruling will and(or) should reside. Good luck, Ray Stricklin On Tue, 02 Mar 1999 17:26:52 +1000 "Petherick, Carol" wrote: > Hi All > Another request from me. Does anyone have any information on the effects of > noise and/or dust on the behaviour and/or liveweight performance of cattle. > I read a recent paper by Joe S and co., and there's snippets of info. in > Temple's books/papers, but does anybody know of more data? This relates to > a pipeline laying activity (lots of it with heavy machinery) across > extensive country (short term; 21 days) and the claim is that this had > dramatic effects on weight gains. I'm reluctant to go into too much detail > here (being rather public!), but am wondered if anyone has any anecdotal or > other information that might have a bearing on this. I know that some > claims for compensation were made in the US 2 or 3 decades ago in relation > to sonic booms; is there anything more than this? > I'd appreciate your help in this. > Thanks. > > Carol Petherick > DPI > TBC > PO Box 5545 > Rockhampton > Qld 4702 > Australia > > tel: (0)7 4923 8200 > fax: (0)7 4923 8222 > e-mail: petherc@dpi.qld.gov.au > > ---------------------- W. Ray Stricklin University of Maryland From: IN%"maina@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU" 2-MAR-1999 09:14:41.53 To: IN%"bregman@interactive.net" "VIVIAN & MICKEY BREGMAN" CC: IN%"arl3342@montana.com" "peggy shunick", IN%"J.Durrell@Queens-Belfast.ac.uk" "Julie Durrell", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Labelling welfare foods Dear all, I was wondering about the price of the welfare-friendly foods. In my experience, organic foods and other environmental/animal friendly foods are significantly more costly than their "regular" counterparts, at least here in the US. Is this true in the UK? I do understand that it costs more to produce these foods, but some food producing companies price their products so high, that it is absolutely prohibitive. Only the well-to-do can afford the food, so purchasing the food becomes more of a status symbol, rather than a welfare-conscious choice. Now, it may be that due to my graduate stipend, I am a little more miserly with my money than most people, but I heard countless people complain about the price of the "friendly" foods, and how it makes them resent the whole idea! Is this true only in the US (or the New York City metropolitan area)? How can this problem be resolved? If the producers of the welfare-friendly foods are banking on peoples' desire to purchase their products because they like animals, then they are selling themselves short. I really don't believe that they want to be perceived as producers of high-cost gourmet food; but in actuality, they are. I, like many others, want to be animal-friendly when purchasing food or other products. But my earnings argue against it. Is this just a case of capitalistic miserliness? If you pay for my lunch, I'd be happy to discuss this with you. :) Sincerely, Daniela maina@aesop.rutgers.edu **************************************** It is not known the distance to the destination; but this much I do know-- that music from afar is coming to my ears. Hafiz ***************************************** From: IN%"rr25@cus.cam.ac.uk" "R. Rodd" 2-MAR-1999 09:29:11.21 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Labelling welfare foods There is some information about the "Freedom Food" labelling scheme at http://www.rspca.org.uk/content/freedom_food.html ---------------------------------------- Rosemary Rodd Literary & Linguistic Computing Centre Sidgwick Avenue, Cambridge CB3 9DA 01223 335029 From: IN%"JNM@dmu.ac.uk" "Jeremy Marchant" 2-MAR-1999 09:42:29.77 To: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "'Petherick, Carol'", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'ethology'" CC: Subj: RE: Cattle - effects of noise and/or dust I can agree with Ray's comments that animals quickly habituate to noise. Here at Caythorpe, we are about 2 miles away from RAF Cranwell, which is the pilot training establishment of the Royal Air Force. Not only this, but it is also home to the Red Arrows aerobatic display team, who as I type are practicing for the summer season. Thus, we and our outdoor pigs, sheep and horses are frequently over-flown by low-level jet aircraft, without any noticable disadvantageous effects. Likewise, ADAS Terrington indoor pig unit is on the flight-path to bombing ranges of the Norfolk Coast and again is subject to faster and lower over-flying, without any noticable effect. The only over-flying that does cause problems are hot air balloons. There have been a number of cases in the UK of farmers claiming compensation, usually for pigs breaking out of paddocks and then the farmer not being able to ever again keep them in with electric fencing. I recently heard about a case where a farmer had de-populated but still claimed he could not keep the new population of pigs in the paddocks - some form of ghostly social transmission had occurred and he was claiming a seven-figure sum in damages! There are a couple of papers in The Pig Journal, 1995, Vol 34, on hot air balloons and pigs: Penny, R.H.C., Farmer, A-M.T. and Lomas, M.J. "Up and away." - Do hot air balloons scare outdoor pigs? pp59-67 Vale, P.G. Do hot air balloons scare outdoor pigs? pp68-70 Jeremy ---------------------------------------------------- Dr. Jeremy Marchant, School of Agriculture, De Montfort University, Caythorpe, Grantham, Lincs., NG32 3 EP, UK. +44 1400 275682 jnm@dmu.ac.uk ----------------------------------------------------------------- From: IN%"dreyn@sirius.com" 2-MAR-1999 10:15:15.47 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Labelling welfare foods maina@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU wrote: > I do understand that it costs > more to produce these foods, but some food producing companies price their > products so high, that it is absolutely prohibitive. Only the well-to-do > can afford the food, so purchasing the food becomes more of a status > symbol, rather than a welfare-conscious choice. > How can this problem be resolved? Daniela - In most larger metropolitan areas now you can join "food co-ops" to get healthy organics at fair prices. For a monthly fee, you usually receive a weekly box full of seasonal produce and eggs. This effort supports a small local farmer who may otherwise be struggling. To offset the costs of co-op produce, many organic farms do allow a partial work trade for food. This is a great way to experience something most city-folk usually have no access to. Another option for obtaining organics is, of course, renting space in a community garden. I understand NYC is famous for these. Perhaps there are also co-ops for 'free-range' meat producers ? I personally would love to be able to support the producers of this kind of product. My solution on the meats is to "splurge" once a week on a tasty free-range poultry dinner (and what a difference in taste!), and cut corners somewhere else (2 or 3 double lattes!). Cheers! Donna Reynolds From: IN%"ilsmith@utkux.utcc.utk.edu" "Ione Smith" 2-MAR-1999 10:40:21.70 To: IN%"maina@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Labelling welfare foods On Tue, 2 Mar 1999 maina@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU wrote: >Dear all, > > I was wondering about the price of the welfare-friendly foods. In >my experience, organic foods and other environmental/animal friendly foods >are significantly more costly than their "regular" counterparts, at least >here in the US. This is, unfortunately, often true. Fortunately, though, it isn't *always* true--and in my city, anyway, it seems to be getting less true with time. Part of the problem, I strongly suspect, is that the organic foods are "trendy"--thus, many supermarkets will mark them up even further than "necessary". Try to find a local co-op, as Donna (ummm...I think it was Donna) mentioned. Mine doesn't work the way she describes it, but it still helps to cut down on costs. Ione ================================================== http://funnelweb.utcc.utk.edu/~ilsmith/SVME.html The Society for Veterinary Medical Ethics http://funnelweb.utcc.utk.edu/~ilsmith/ethics.html for all sides of the AR/AW/anti-AR debate ================================================== Non Impediti Ratione Cogitationis From: IN%"V.W.Koch@usda.gov" "V W Koch" 2-MAR-1999 12:01:17.82 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Labelling welfare foods Julie Durrell wrote: Coop supermarkets in the UK not only labels their eggs as "free range" but also as "produced by hens in battery cages" (or at least they used to). Promoting certain produce as "non welfare friendly" is probably more effective than promoting "welfare friendly" produce, as far as getting consumers to buy the latter is concerned. Interesting! My own gut reaction to the two labels confirms, in my mind, that "non welfare friendly" labels are more effective. Can any of the psychologists in the group explain why? Wendy Koch v.w.koch@usda.gov From: IN%"jwillard@turbonet.com" "Janice Willard" 2-MAR-1999 18:05:52.26 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Labelling welfare foods At 10:54 AM 3/2/99 -0700, you wrote: >Julie Durrell wrote: > >Coop supermarkets in the UK not only labels their eggs as "free range" >but also as "produced by hens in battery cages" (or at least they used >to). Promoting certain produce as "non welfare friendly" is probably >more effective than promoting "welfare friendly" produce, as far as >getting consumers to buy the latter is concerned. > >Interesting! My own gut reaction to the two labels confirms, in my mind, that >"non welfare friendly" labels are more effective. Can any of the psychologists >in the group explain why? > >Wendy Koch >v.w.koch@usda.gov I see a problem with the definition of "welfare friendly" in food labeling. It's been my experience (and probably that of most everyone else on this list) that the general public can be pretty misguided as to what constitutes the best welfare for an animal and tends to judge what is best for animals based on human needs and values (and late 20th century values at that). So if something is labeled "welfare friendly" and it describes a management practice which runs counter to an animal's best interests, it will be even more difficult to change the public perception. This is not to say that I wouldn't prefer to consume products which are more ecologically sensitive all around. But there can be a huge chasm between truth and advertising. Janice Willard DVM, MS From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 2-MAR-1999 20:23:13.71 To: IN%"hbe-l@a3.com" "INTERNET:hbe-l@a3.com", IN%"darwin-and-darwinism-request@sheffield.ac.uk" "Darwin List_Serve", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: Kiss an Evolutionist: Men, Women, and Darwin Hello, Albert Himoe (I believe!) relayed the text of Natalie Angier's article, "Men, Women, Sex, and Darwin," published in the NY Times Magazine. The following is a summary for a piece that I submitted in response. The= full essay is at http://www.cape.org/mhn/capeforum/post/3/8 or at http://forums.behavior.net/evolutionary. Jim Brody =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Kiss an Evolutionist: Other Thoughts about Men, Women, and Darwin 2/28/99 Summary: - Stereotypes of evolutionary thinking are misleading (N. Angier, 2/21/9= 9, NY Times Mag). - Males and females have overlapping mosaics of characteristics. - Environmental tuning shifts the characteristics displayed by either se= x. Male "dominance" is correlated with male "nurturance" in many species. = Male "dominance" in vervet monkeys is often a function of coalitions they= form with females; social conditions and neurochemical changes mutually influence each other and both in males are heavily influenced by females.= - Female economic successes may be most likely in stable conditions of relative prosperity in which "feminine" skills for handling alliances and= extended networks of friendships can operate. - Neither our society nor our planet is a stable niche. Climatic, socia= l, and geological instability make it more likely that our evolved genetic mechanisms will operate in ways that deceive or surprise us. It is to everyone=92s interest to be aware of all the possibilities that are conta= ined in our nature when the next series of emergencies occur. From: IN%"chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" 3-MAR-1999 03:09:16.12 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: welfare labelling Dear All, As has already been pointed out, advertising/labelling might not be as accurate or as descriptive as we would like to think. There is currently a huge range of labels which can be applied to food products with little or no legislation to regulate the implied meaning. Thus, in the UK we can buy 'Farm Fresh' eggs which have been produced by hens in battery cages, and 'Free-range' bacon produced by piglets in cages - it was their mothers who were given access to the outdoors. No wonder the consumer is confused! ---------------------- Chris Sherwin Division of Animal Health and Husbandry University of Bristol Langford House Langford Bristol BS40 5DU Phone: (0117) 928 9486 Fax: (01934) 928 9582 E-mail chris.sherwin@bris.ac.uk From: IN%"chandler@umbi.umd.edu" "Elizabeth Chandler" 3-MAR-1999 09:50:07.04 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Domestic Companion Animals Hello everyone. I have just joined this listserve and am trying to pull my community (Hyattsville, MD) together to find novel and creative solutions to its current animal management control solution (destruction of the animal). Our county euthanized over 8,000 animals last year (1998) and I am trying to bring that number down to 0. Therefore, if anyone out there has information with regard to animal welfare issues on this topic (references I can go to, successful management of other communities' domestic animal population, ethical support), please reply. Thank you. I look forward to learning a great deal by participating in this listserve. Elizabeth Chandler Center of Marine Biotechnology University of Maryland Biotechnology Institute chandler@umbi.umd.edu From: IN%"V.W.Koch@usda.gov" "V W Koch" 3-MAR-1999 09:56:12.33 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Labelling welfare foods That's true, but what does it have to do with my comment? Wendy Koch applied-ethology-error@skyway.usask.ca on 03/02/99 04:13:45 PM To: Applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca@i@gw cc: Subject: Re: Labelling welfare foods At 10:54 AM 3/2/99 -0700, you wrote: >Julie Durrell wrote: > >Coop supermarkets in the UK not only labels their eggs as "free range" >but also as "produced by hens in battery cages" (or at least they used >to). Promoting certain produce as "non welfare friendly" is probably >more effective than promoting "welfare friendly" produce, as far as >getting consumers to buy the latter is concerned. > >Interesting! My own gut reaction to the two labels confirms, in my mind, that >"non welfare friendly" labels are more effective. Can any of the psychologists >in the group explain why? > >Wendy Koch >v.w.koch@usda.gov I see a problem with the definition of "welfare friendly" in food labeling. It's been my experience (and probably that of most everyone else on this list) that the general public can be pretty misguided as to what constitutes the best welfare for an animal and tends to judge what is best for animals based on human needs and values (and late 20th century values at that). So if something is labeled "welfare friendly" and it describes a management practice which runs counter to an animal's best interests, it will be even more difficult to change the public perception. This is not to say that I wouldn't prefer to consume products which are more ecologically sensitive all around. But there can be a huge chasm between truth and advertising. Janice Willard DVM, MS From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 3-MAR-1999 10:03:52.65 To: IN%"kckissan@wam.umd.edu" "Kelly Caithlin Kissane" CC: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych", IN%"darwin-and-darwinism-request@sheffield.ac.uk" "Darwin List_Serve", IN%"hbe-l@a3.com" "INTERNET:hbe-l@a3 Subj: RE: Kiss an Evolutionist: Men, Women, and Darwin Message text written by Kelly Caithlin Kissane >but sometimes it can't respond fast enough to a drastic environmental change,= as our ancient whales and sharks found out.< There may be times that environmental shifts exceed the variability encod= ed into the genome and a lot of furry critters roll over. Kauffman put it s= o well when he talked about phase transitions, our current environment is a= very fine, narrow one that we take for granted. Certainly there are negative feedback systems (Gaia models) that tend to keep us in it but I hate the idea of taking them for granted. Eventually life adjusts but w= e may not be it. Great to "hear" from you Kelly. Jim Brody From: IN%"ngourkow@unixg.ubc.ca" "Nadine Gourkow" 3-MAR-1999 16:45:23.19 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Loneliness and shelter animals This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_06H81rigjZW50h6axW95vg) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I have been a silent participant on this list for a while and I have = greatly enjoyed the various discussions. I now need some input about a concept not yet discussed on this list: Loneliness of companion animals in shelters Do companion animals experience " Loneliness"?=20 If so what behaviours would signal this " emotional state"? Can " animal loneliness" be alleviated by human company? If so, would = there need to be a bond between the animal and the human, or could a = human-assisted activities and therapy program do the trick? I hope to gain some of this knowledge as part of my research thesis, so = anybody wanting to engage in a more extended discussion can e mail me = privately. ngourkow@unixg.ubc.ca --Boundary_(ID_06H81rigjZW50h6axW95vg) Content-type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
I have been a silent participant on this list for a = while and=20 I have greatly enjoyed the various discussions.
I now need some input about a concept not yet = discussed on=20 this list:
Loneliness of companion = animals in=20 shelters
 
Do companion animals experience " = Loneliness"?=20
If so what behaviours would signal this " = emotional=20 state"?
Can " animal loneliness" be alleviated by = human=20 company? If so, would there need to be a bond between the animal and the = human,  or could a human-assisted activities and therapy program do = the=20 trick?
I hope to gain some of this knowledge as part of my = research=20 thesis, so anybody wanting to engage in a more extended discussion can e = mail me=20 privately.
ngourkow@unixg.ubc.ca
--Boundary_(ID_06H81rigjZW50h6axW95vg)-- From: IN%"csermely@biol.unipr.it" "Davide Csermely" 4-MAR-1999 02:18:42.49 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Domestic Companion Animals >Hello everyone. I have just joined this listserve and am trying to >pull my community (Hyattsville, MD) together to find novel and >creative solutions to its current animal management control solution >(destruction of the animal). Our county euthanized over 8,000 >animals last year (1998) and I am trying to bring that number down >to 0. > >Therefore, if anyone out there has information with regard to animal >welfare issues on this topic (references I can go to, successful >management of other communities' domestic animal population, ethical >support), please reply. > >Thank you. I look forward to learning a great deal by participating >in this listserve. > >Elizabeth Chandler >Center of Marine Biotechnology >University of Maryland Biotechnology Institute >chandler@umbi.umd.edu > > Dear Elizabeth, I would appreciate if you can firstly clarify what animal species you are referring to and the reason why your "county euthanized over 8,000 animals last year (1998)". Were they domestic animals of wild pest species; their role and interaction with us is rather different. If these not better specified animals had been reared as a meat source it is hard for me to imagine a different solution from euthanasia. In the case they were not bred for that purpose I wonder what you suggest to do if you keep them alive instead of euthanizing. Davide Csermely -- ****************************************************************************** Davide Csermely (Assoc. Prof. of Vertebrate Zoology) Dip. Biologia Evolutiva e Funzionale Intl.Phone: +39-0521-905632 Universita` di Parma Intl. Fax : +39-0521-905657 Parco Area delle Scienze 11A Email: csermely@biol.unipr.it 43100 Parma, Italy URL: http://www.biol.unipr.it ****************************************************************************** From: IN%"bregman@interactive.net" "VIVIAN & MICKEY BREGMAN" 4-MAR-1999 06:36:31.57 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Domestic Companion Animals At 09:17 AM 3/4/99 +0100, Elizabeth Chandler wrote: >>Hello everyone. I have just joined this listserve and am trying to >>pull my community (Hyattsville, MD) together to find novel and >>creative solutions to its current animal management control solution >>(destruction of the animal). Our county euthanized over 8,000 >>animals last year (1998) and I am trying to bring that number down >>to 0. >> >>Therefore, if anyone out there has information with regard to animal >>welfare issues on this topic (references I can go to, successful >>management of other communities' domestic animal population, ethical >>support), please reply. >> >>Thank you. I look forward to learning a great deal by participating >>in this listserve. >Dear Elizabeth, > >I would appreciate if you can firstly clarify what animal species you are >referring to and the reason why your "county euthanized over 8,000 animals >last year (1998)". Were they domestic animals of wild pest species; their >role and interaction with us is rather different. If these not better >specified animals had been reared as a meat source it is hard for me to >imagine a different solution from euthanasia. In the case they were not >bred for that purpose I wonder what you suggest to do if you keep them >alive instead of euthanizing. > >Davide Csermely I assumed (never assumed) that she was referring to dog and cats. That's what I think of when I hear Domestic Companion Animals, altho I suppose ferrets and canaries as well as other birds and small pets could be included, but these are rarely, to my knowledge, euthenized by the state. Another problem here would be something mentioned on one of the dog lists that I am on. Is it "fair", or perhaps kind would be a better word. Is it kind to keep a dog in a run at a shelter just to keep him/her alive. Dogs need the companionship of other animals, dogs, people, etc. Vivian Vivian Bregman -- dog trainer for forty years -- interested in everything to do with science, especially Biology --- bregman@interactive.net From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 4-MAR-1999 09:30:05.36 To: IN%"memills@aol.com" "Mike Mills", IN%"hbe-l@a3.com" "INTERNET:hbe-l@a3.com", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology", IN%"darwin-and-darwinism-request@sheffield.ac.uk" "Darwin List_Serve" CC: IN%"rgardner@utmb.edu" "Russ Gardner Jr", IN%"dbuss@psyvax.psy.utexas.edu" "David Buss", IN%"sgangest@unm.edu" "Steven Gangestad", IN%"phausman@digizen.net" "Patti Hausman", IN%"robin@coape.win-uk.net" "Robin Walker", IN%"john.price@lycosmail.com" Subj: "Time": Barb Ehrenreich and Evolutionary Psychology (The following is a response to an HBES posting by Mike Mills, drawing attention to the current "Time" cover story that puts some mud on evolutionary psychology, the domain of "Evo Psychos" in Nat Angier's language, NY Times Mag, 2/21/99.) First, A Problem or an Opportunity? There probably are NO coincidences. I sent a manuscript that responded t= o Nat Angier's "Men, Women, Sex, and Darwin" to the "NY Times Magazine" on= this past Monday (abstract below). I discovered the "Time" cover on Wednesday and found Ehrenreich inside, lauding Angier as a "Walt Whitman= crossed with Erma Bombeck." Not true; Angier is out of her league as bot= h an evolutionist and a science writer but maybe not Ehrenreich and certain= ly not Bombeck or Whitman. There are injustices in Ehrenreich's narrative of the same quality she finds in EP models. For example, she snidely hints that Helen Fisher -- who also has a new book, "The First Sex" -- is an Uncle Tom. I don't thi= nk so. You can find other type castings that arise from "Let's make a conclusion, pick a study to support it and then bully someone to sell magazines and gain stature." Cross their tactic with a little EP data an= d the conclusion leaps that all women are whores and all men are rapists. = You can also note that females likewise conduct chimp war parties as described by Richard Wrangham. Still, I am not outraged or annoyed by these essays and suspect they do all of us a favor by reminding us that biological outcomes exist in addition to traits and strategies. (Incidentally, writers are caching resources, a gathering strategy that i= n one instance, a bit of silliness about the wit and wiles of southern wome= n, pulled the [female] writer an advance of $160,000. Frank Sulloway -- another gatherer -- is rumored to have gotten $250,000 up front. Kristen= Hawke is correct, we guys spend too much time hunting.) Most of us -- I hope -- prefer the notion that not only are Orientals, Blacks, and Caucasians the "same" but so are women and men. EP followers= could be tagged with proving the identity of races but the differences between men and women, a ploy that will get us nailed or used by any skeptic armed with street smarts, literacy, and a little bit of science. = (David Duke and Angier perhaps share a compartment in this regard?) The= public doesn't understand that each EP student is "different" in their clusters of traits and he or she can opt to study the identities or the contrasts of other humans. Each of us can study people or we can array people with fish, birds, and vervets if we like. We have not offered to the public -- with models, explanation, or conviction -- the concept that= the rules that govern genes, niches, and their interaction are the same f= or all but outcomes vary. (Gosh, how nice it would be! Hollywood certainly= does it but with different labels) Perhaps we have been remiss. = I like a broader focus and multiple EEAs, that we probably carry some things from our lizard days. I believe that males and females are fundamentally the "same" but different tuning (epigenetic rules) will produce different outcomes in accord with niches, ontogenetic stage, and= genetic traits. We can expect to see two, overlapping distributions, eac= h data point is its own mosaic. This stance is perhaps a closer match to what we often find yet allows so= me of us to study the probabilities of reinforcement for the assorted gambit= s -- e. g., promiscuity, monogamy -- that generate all of the outcomes we find in human conduct, whether the finely detailed mosaics that line the dome at St. Peters (and the tourists initials scratched on each tile in arm's reach of a portal!), a Robert Silvers' composition, or in human for= m ambling in a mall. It's a complicated array of rules and platforms, that 93% of all women ca= n be whores under different circumstances, that men will perform nearly identical behaviors under a slightly different matrix of antecedents and consequences. Likewise, women can be sexually aggressive and multi-partnered and males more conservative, again in relation to setting= s and payoffs. Either sex -- each itself a continuous distribution physically and behaviorally -- can approximate the behaviors of the other= . Second, What to Do Is Not Just a "Guy Thing": First, female alliances are awesome in both their momentary and sustained= power. Some of us males depend on them for our own standing and prosperity! Comments and responses from women will be counted more heavi= ly than those from guys and send them to the weeklies and "women's magazines= " you find at Daltons or Waldens, especially any with a history for printin= g "evolution" topics. Second, David Buss and Steven Gangestad are talking at the Hunter School= of Social Work at 129 E. 79th St., (near 3rd Ave) on March 10th. It's free, the auditorium will hold about 150, and it should be a good show. = I won't miss it, neither should anyone in a 2 hour radius! (Dori LeCroy, t= he pilot of this series, might appreciate knowing of your interest and plann= ed arrival.) Third, invest in long term conversations with anyone you meet in related fields. My own niche overlaps not psychiatry and social work but also pastoral counselors, pediatricians, general practitioners, naturopaths, chiropractors, and wholistics. I'm eager for students for this summer's course, "Clinical Sociobiology: Darwinian Feelings and Values," taught in= team fashion by HBES and ASCAP members John Price, M.D., Russ Gardner, M.D., John Fentress, Ph.D., and me. = Fourth, use the Charles Crawford response to critics. That is, smile broadly, drop your voice a notch, and remind your irritant of your commonalties. At the same time, turn your left side towards the person a= nd slide into a wrestler's stance! I watched him do it in NY -- it worked! Jim Brody PS: My essay (or its revisions) is looking for a printed home. It's on t= he calendar for ASCAP but can be shared with Dr. Gardner's consent. (He's easy.) It's also on two desks at the "NY Times" (but I'm not optimistic!= ) and is now posted at http://forums.behavior.net/evolutionary and at http://www.cape.org/capeforum/post/3/8. Summary for "Kiss an Evolutionist: Men, Women, and Darwin" -- Stereotypes of evolutionary thinking are misleading (N. Angier, 2/21/99, NY Times Mag). -- Males and females have overlapping mosaics of characteristics. -- Environmental tuning shifts the characteristics displayed by either sex. -- Male "dominance" is correlated with male "nurturance" in many species= . = Male dominance in vervet monkeys is often a function of coalitions they form with females; social conditions and neurochemical changes mutually influence each other and both in males are heavily influenced by females.= -- Female economic successes may be more apparent in stable conditions o= f relative prosperity in which feminine skills for handling alliances and extended networks of friendships can operate. -- Neither our society nor our planet is a stable niche. Climatic, social, and geological instability make it more likely that our evolved genetic mechanisms will operate in ways that deceive or surprise us. It = is to everyone=92s interest to be aware of all the possibilities that are contained in our nature when the next series of emergencies occur. = Evolution, together with other sciences, gives us glimpses of those alternative futures. From: IN%"robin@coape.win-uk.net" "Robin Walker" 4-MAR-1999 13:09:21.21 To: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "'James F. Brody'", IN%"memills@aol.com" "Mike Mills", IN%"hbe-l@a3.com" "INTERNET:hbe-l@a3.com", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: IN%"rgardner@utmb.edu" "Russ Gardner Jr", IN%"dbuss@psyvax.psy.utexas.edu" "David Buss", IN%"sgangest@unm.edu" "Steven Gangestad", IN%"phausman@digizen.net" "Patti Hausman", IN%"john.price@lycosmail.com" "John Price MD", IN%"DoriLeCroy@aol.com" " Subj: RE: "Time": Barb Ehrenreich and Evolutionary Psychology " Fourth, use the Charles Crawford response to critics. That is, smile broadly, drop your voice a notch, and remind your irritant of your commonalties. At the same time, turn your left side towards the person and slide into a wrestler's stance! I watched him do it in NY -- it worked! This sounds as if it needs careful practice. A little too much 'slide' and people will simply direct you to the nearest toilet,. Robin -----Original Message----- From: James F. Brody [SMTP:JBrody@compuserve.com] Sent: 04 March 1999 15:24 To: Mike Mills; INTERNET:hbe-l@a3.com; Paleopsych; Applied Ethology; Darwin List_Serve Cc: Russ Gardner Jr; David Buss; Steven Gangestad; Patti Hausman; Robin Walker; John Price MD; DoriLeCroy Subject: "Time": Barb Ehrenreich and Evolutionary Psychology From: IN%"billcamp@cdsnet.net" "Bill Campbell" 4-MAR-1999 13:49:10.68 To: IN%"ngourkow@unixg.ubc.ca" "Nadine Gourkow" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Loneliness and shelter animals Nadine, In 1970 mid-70s I had an vicarious experience through a veteriarian who was consulting with a dog pound in San Diego, California. She called about a serious barking problem among the dogs. Some people regard barking by dogs separated from each other as a means of communication. More experienced folks than I might comment on whether it is a way to relieve _loneliness_. The kennel runs, by the way, were among the first circular designs. She mentioned that part of the daily routine was for volunteers to take the dogs out to an exercise yard and play with them. I suggested that the staff be taught to teach the dogs simple commands on leash [several dogs were often in the area at a time] to Sit, then Heel, then Sit, and perform this exercise with them for five to fifteen minutes during their outings, then calmly lead the dogs back to their runs. The veterinarian phoned back after a couple of weeks to say the barking had diminished dramatically. This was evident from the fact that complaints about it had ceased, or diminished just as dramatically. :-) Now, the questions are... did the dogs stop barking because their loneliness was relieved? Or do dogs left in pounds by their owners feel more content after they have responded to some regular leadership from their human keepers versus play-companionship with them? I should mention, for operant conditioning adherents, the dogs were never taken out when they _started_ barking, hence it is doubtful that the little training sessions could have been considered as aversive consequences of the barking. Bill Campbell At 02:38 PM 3/3/99 -0800, you wrote: > > I have been a silent participant on this list for a while and I have greatly > enjoyed the various discussions. > I now need some input about a concept not yet discussed on this list: > Loneliness of companion animals in shelters > > Do companion animals experience " Loneliness"? > If so what behaviours would signal this " emotional state"? > Can " animal loneliness" be alleviated by human company? If so, would there > need to be a bond between the animal and the human, or could a > human-assisted activities and therapy program do the trick? > I hope to gain some of this knowledge as part of my research thesis, so > anybody wanting to engage in a more extended discussion can e mail me > privately. From: IN%"S.Gragert@t-online.de" 4-MAR-1999 14:03:22.77 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology" CC: Subj: animal transport bills Dear All, I am a member of a German Veterinary Association for Animal Welfare, that is among the organisations that are regularly asked by our ministry of agriculture for their statement about new animal welfare bills. At the moment animal transport regulation is on the agenda. At our last meeting we were asked to judge an EC proposal for special requirements for pigs on long distance transports. Unfortunately we did not (as usual with national bills) get any further explanations that helped to understand the background and the reasons for e.g. the ventilation rate given. It would be a lot more effective if we could base our statement on the very same research results and arguments that actually lead to the proposal. Any people out there who are interested in exchanging background information to prevent sensible proposals from being turned down out of ignorance? Is there any network that discusses animal welfare legislation and helps people interested in animal welfare to co-ordinate their forces and knowledge? EXAMPLE: In the last German animal transport bill it was intended to restrict the duty to separate small groups of cattle with solid partitions to road transport, because "on ships and trains centrifugal forces are usually not very high". Anybody who is interested in the forces that might occur on board of ships, trains, planes and lorries is welcome to ask me for references. They clearly show that it is not tolerable to transport any species without partitions to separate small groups. Yours sincerely Stephanie Gragert P.S. You need, of course, not trust me. If you like I will prove my membership to the Veterinary organisation mentioned above. If you would rather correspond with somebody from a recognised German research institute, tell me and I will organise that. I am a PhD student at Leipzig University, writing my thesis and correspondence at home, that is why I always give my private address in my comments to the network. ---------------------------------- Stephanie Gragert Kochstr. 59 04275 Leipzig Germany Tel/Fax 0049 341 3304368 e-mail: S.Gragert@t-online.de From: IN%"meredith@farmline.com" "Michael Meredith" 5-MAR-1999 05:36:37.58 To: IN%"S.Gragert@t-online.de" "Stephanie Gragert", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology" CC: Subj: RE: animal transport bills Dear Stephanie, The European Commission Sub-Committee on Animal Welfare discussed on 16 February 1999: Standards for forced ventilation for animal transport vehicles for journeys of more than eight hours for the bovine, porcine, ovine and caprine species. Presumably it is these standards you have been asked to comment on? Discussion is also on-going in the U.K. as shown in this MAFF Press Release of 9 February: ANIMAL EXPORTS: WELFARE A TOP PRIORITY ====================================== A review of rules for live animal transport is being conducted by Agriculture Departments, Farm Animal Welfare Minister Elliot Morley said today. The aim is to ensure the highest possible welfare standards for animals in transit and will look at the training of staff, welfare at livestock markets and procedures for enforcing journey times, rest periods and vehicle standards. In addition, Mr Morley said that agreement had been reached with the veterinary profession for a new independent system for certifying that animals are fit to travel before undertaking journeys abroad. But Mr Morley stressed that there was no way the live export trade could be banned because of the European Union's Single Market rules. A ten minute rule bill seeking to end live exports is before Parliament today. Mr Morley said: "Only a small percentage - about five per cent - of our meat exports are exported live. "The Government strongly prefers meat exports to live exports. Meat exports mean that processing and value-added work remains in this country. "This is not just for welfare but for the rural economy. We have a high quality product and want to produce our meat export trade. "But it has been established that the UK has no legal scope to ban exports and any such move would be struck down in the courts. "Our policy in the circumstances is to ensure the highest possible welfare standards when animals are tranported . "Since coming into office, the Government has been undertaking a programme of action to ensure effective controls are in place. "We can now ban transporters who break the rules on welfare; enforce strict journey times and rest periods and apply high vehicle standards on longer journeys. "We are overhauling the pre-export veterinary checks procedure to strengthen the independence of the arrangements and by reviewing the rules with a view to making procedural improvements. "We are determined to do everything in our powers. Welfare is the top priority." -----oOo----- The MAFF people to contact for further details are Chris Ryder, Head of Animal Welfare or Ed Varley, Deputy Head of Animal Welfare Team e.m.varley@aw.maff.gov.uk Another development of interest is a new type of pig transporter (exceeding current regulations) just introduced by PIC, the world's largest pig breeding company. It is fully insulated, with six sensors linked to a computer that monitors environmental temperature throughout the journey and alerts the driver if there is any marked change. Ventilation is adjustable via mechanical ventilation flaps and ventilation fans operated from either auxilary ventilators or an external electricity supply. A dimming light system provides background light during the journey and brighter light for stock inspection. Individual compartments have feed and water facilities with heaters to prevent water freezing. As far as welfare legislation in various countries is concerned, our diskette guide to pig behaviour & welfare includes a general section listing and linking to key welfare information (including legislation) on the Internet. Contact us at pdic@btinternet.com for further details of the diskette cost and contents. Best Wishes Mike Meredith Pig Disease Information Centre, UK From: IN%"rondog@btinternet.com" "Jon Bowen" 5-MAR-1999 18:00:55.50 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied ethology" CC: Subj: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_G+ee/tYnwGAOcEkBFHxqxA) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable several years ago I saw a dog with the skin disorder 'dalmatian bronzing = disease'. This dog was also categorised as 'overactive' and 'attention seeking' by = the owner, although this was not a problem at the time. To treat the bronzing disease we put the dog on a low purine diet. In conjunction with a long course of antibiotics this sorted the skin = peoblem out but the dog gradually developed a much greater degree of = activity and attention seeking behaviour until this became a problem in = itself. This was in direct response to the type of diet which the dog was on, = and we reached a compromise situation with skin disease vs. behaviour by = adjusting the type of diet. Is there any work on behavioural effects of dietary purine levels (all = species)? Or is this likely to have been due to another dietary component that was = also different in the low-purine feed? Jon --Boundary_(ID_G+ee/tYnwGAOcEkBFHxqxA) Content-type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
several years ago I saw a dog with the skin disorder = 'dalmatian bronzing disease'.
This dog was also categorised as 'overactive' and = 'attention=20 seeking' by the owner, although this was not a problem at the = time.
 
To treat the bronzing disease we put the dog on a = low purine=20 diet.
In conjunction with a long course of antibiotics = this sorted=20 the skin peoblem out but the dog gradually developed a much greater = degree of=20 activity and attention seeking behaviour until this became a problem in=20 itself.
 
This was in direct response to the type of diet = which the dog=20 was on, and we reached a compromise situation with skin disease vs. = behaviour by=20 adjusting the type of diet.
 
Is there any work on behavioural effects of dietary = purine=20 levels (all species)?
Or is this likely to have been due to another = dietary=20 component that was also different in the low-purine feed?
 
Jon
 
--Boundary_(ID_G+ee/tYnwGAOcEkBFHxqxA)-- From: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol" 7-MAR-1999 20:32:12.53 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'ethology'" CC: Subj: Stress in the absence of the stressor Hi All Last week somebody gave me the example of humans experiencing long-term stress and trauma when the stressor was no longer present e.g. soldiers who've gone through wars, people who've witnessed murders etc. and asked if this was possible in animals (non-human). My immediate, and longer term, response was "no; remove the stressor and the stress is removed", but is this the case? Does anybody know of any work/reports of long-term stress persisting after the removal of the stressor. I'm particularly interested in this concept with cattle, but would also be interested to hear if there's anything on other species. The only thing I can think of is maybe the social stress of being defeated by a dominant in some primates. Was it the case that even when the dominant and subordinate were separated that the subordinate continued to go into decline and died? Carol Carol Petherick Senior Research Scientist (Animal Behaviour & Welfare) Queensland Beef Industry Institute Tropical Beef Centre PO Box 5545 Central Qld Mail Centre Rockhampton Qld 4702 Australia email: petherc@dpi.qld.gov.au Tel: (0)7 4923 8200 Fax: (0)7 4923 8222 From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 7-MAR-1999 20:48:41.20 To: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: Stress in the absence of the stressor Message text written by "Petherick, Carol" >Was it the case that even when the dominant and subordinate were separated that the subordinate continued to go into decline and died?< One of my clients had a singleton rooster and bought several hens to keep= him company. One of the hens was actually another cock who was whipped daily and savagely by #1. Eventually the new guy won and the former bos= s shriveled and died even though removed from the group and given individua= l care. I DOUBT that PTSD-magnitude experiences and stress FAIL to cause similar hippocampal (check the last Discover in regard to confusion and memory problems in relation to prolonged stress or major trauma) and cardiovascular changes in our kin, however far removed from us. Shouldn'= t be difficult to show with imaging techniques. May even show a false memo= ry syndrome (just foolin' with this last one!). Jim Brody From: IN%"emily.patterson-kane@vuw.ac.nz" "Emily G Patterson-Kane" 7-MAR-1999 20:50:56.59 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Stress in the absence of the stressor >Hi All >Last week somebody gave me the example of humans experiencing long-term >stress and trauma when the stressor was no longer present e.g. soldiers >who've gone through wars, people who've witnessed murders etc. and asked if >this was possible in animals (non-human). This would depend on the species I think? Deprived rats (isolated in a small space) show weird behaviour for some time after their environment is enriched but eventually catch up with life-long enriched animals. From: IN%"ilsmith@utkux.utcc.utk.edu" "Ione Smith" 7-MAR-1999 21:38:03.19 To: CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'ethology'" Subj: RE: Stress in the absence of the stressor On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Petherick, Carol wrote: >Hi All >Last week somebody gave me the example of humans experiencing long-term >stress and trauma when the stressor was no longer present e.g. soldiers >who've gone through wars, people who've witnessed murders etc. and asked if >this was possible in animals (non-human). My immediate, and longer term, >response was "no I think we're suffering from a confusion of terms here. Humans experience long term *effects* of a stressor after the external stressor is removed. These long term effects may include emotional and physiological derangements. It is clear that animals also experience long term effects from external stressors after those stressors are removed. Learned helplessness and persistent stereotypies (those which have become emancipated from their eliciting stimuli) are all the proof you need. Ione -- Ione L. Smith, DVM -- Department of Comparative Medicine -- -- University of Tennessee, College of Veterinary Medicine -- ================================================== http://funnelweb.utcc.utk.edu/~ilsmith/SVME.html The Society for Veterinary Medical Ethics http://funnelweb.utcc.utk.edu/~ilsmith/ethics.html for all sides of the AR/AW/anti-AR debate ================================================== Non Impediti Ratione Cogitationis From: IN%"Uknierim@Itt.tiho-hannover.de" "Ute Knierim" 8-MAR-1999 02:24:49.13 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'ethology'" CC: Subj: RE: Stress in the absence of the stressor Dear Carol, your question reminds me of an interesting investigation of N. Sachser on the influence of rearing conditions on the behaviour and physiology in adult guinea pigs. He found that male guinea pigs reared in pairs with one female, after being confonted with another male in the presence of an unfamiliar female, did severly fight for about 4 days after which one male would be defeated, nearly cease to drink and eat and would no longer receive any attention from the other male and female. Even if removed at this time (the earliest time by which it became clear to the observer who would loose) this male would finally die. Already on day 3 glucocoticoid concentrations of loosers rose dramatically and increased further until death. Males reared in mixed-sex colonies, however, did not show this pattern of behavioural and endocrine response. Sachser; N. (1991): Die Bedeutung der Aufzuchtbedingungen fuer Verhalten und Physiologie adulter Hausmeerschweinchen. In: Aktuelle Arbeiten zur artgemaessen Tierhaltung 1990, KTBL-Schrift 344, pp. 59-69 Sachser, N. & Lick, C. (1991): Social experience, behaviour and stress in guinea pigs. Physiol. Behav ? Sachser, N. & Lick, C. (1989): Social stress in guinea pigs. Physiol. 46, 137-144 Best wishes Ute ********************************************************************* Dr. Ute Knierim Institut fuer Tierhygiene und Tierschutz Tieraerztliche Hochschule Hannover Institute of Animal Hygiene and Welfare School of Veterinary Medicine Hannover Buenteweg 17 p D-30559 Hannover Tel +49 (0)511 953 8449 Fax +49 (0)511 953 8588 uknierim@itt.tiho-hannover.de ************************************************************************** From: IN%"csermely@biol.unipr.it" "Davide Csermely" 8-MAR-1999 03:47:03.71 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Stress in the absence of the stressor On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Petherick, Carol wrote: >Hi All >Last week somebody gave me the example of humans experiencing long-term >stress and trauma when the stressor was no longer present e.g. soldiers >who've gone through wars, people who've witnessed murders etc. and asked if >this was possible in animals (non-human). My immediate, and longer term, >response was "no; remove the stressor and the stress is removed", but is >this the case? Does anybody know of any work/reports of long-term stress >persisting after the removal of the stressor. I'm particularly interested >in this concept with cattle, but would also be interested to hear if there's >anything on other species. The only thing I can think of is maybe the >social stress of being defeated by a dominant in some primates. Was it the >case that even when the dominant and subordinate were separated that the >subordinate continued to go into decline and died? > Dear Carol, Some studies on the modification of heart function of social stress in rats have been carried out for some time in my Dept. They show that the effects last many days after removal of the stressor; considering the "short" life span of rats the effects are really long term. Davide Csermely -- ****************************************************************************** Davide Csermely (Assoc. Prof. of Vertebrate Zoology) Dip. Biologia Evolutiva e Funzionale Intl.Phone: +39-0521-905632 Universita` di Parma Intl. Fax : +39-0521-905657 Parco Area delle Scienze 11A Email: csermely@biol.unipr.it 43100 Parma, Italy URL: http://www.biol.unipr.it ****************************************************************************** From: IN%"research@scz.org" "Emily Weiss" 8-MAR-1999 08:10:58.74 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Stress in the absence of the stressor The concept of learned helplessness is based on just this idea - even once a stressor (or set of stressors) is removed - the organism is still affected - Emily weiss Curator of Behavior and research Sedgwick County Zoo (316) 942-2212 ex. 257 -----Original Message----- From: Petherick, Carol To: 'ethology' Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 8:34 PM Subject: Stress in the absence of the stressor >Hi All >Last week somebody gave me the example of humans experiencing long-term >stress and trauma when the stressor was no longer present e.g. soldiers >who've gone through wars, people who've witnessed murders etc. and asked if >this was possible in animals (non-human). My immediate, and longer term, >response was "no; remove the stressor and the stress is removed", but is >this the case? Does anybody know of any work/reports of long-term stress >persisting after the removal of the stressor. I'm particularly interested >in this concept with cattle, but would also be interested to hear if there's >anything on other species. The only thing I can think of is maybe the >social stress of being defeated by a dominant in some primates. Was it the >case that even when the dominant and subordinate were separated that the >subordinate continued to go into decline and died? > >Carol > >Carol Petherick >Senior Research Scientist (Animal Behaviour & Welfare) >Queensland Beef Industry Institute >Tropical Beef Centre >PO Box 5545 >Central Qld Mail Centre >Rockhampton >Qld 4702 >Australia > >email: petherc@dpi.qld.gov.au >Tel: (0)7 4923 8200 >Fax: (0)7 4923 8222 > > From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 8-MAR-1999 12:54:01.30 To: IN%"research@scz.org" "Emily Weiss", IN%"hbe-l@a3.com" "INTERNET:hbe-l@a3.com", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych" CC: Subj: RE: Stress in the absence of the stressor Message text written by Emily Weiss >The concept of learned helplessness is based on just this idea - even on= ce a stressor (or set of stressors) is removed - the organism is still affecte= d - Emily weiss Curator of Behavior and research Sedgwick County Zoo (316) 942-2212 ex. 257< =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Emily, It's a bit different from my traditional notion of learning and perhaps challenges a former boundary. That is, per Discover, glucocorticoid leve= l and hippocampal sizes change during prolonged stress with impairments in the acquisition of new information and increased forgetfulness and generally disorganized behavior. Such remit over weeks and months once "stress" is removed. The whole thing shrieks "PTSD" but I'm not sure that clinical research ha= s been done. Likewise, implications may exist for schizophrenia. Jim Brody = "Clinical Sociobiology: Darwinian Feelings and Values" July 19-23, 1999 John Price, MD, Russell Gardner, MD, John Fentress, PhD, James Brody, PhD= 20th Cape Cod Institute 15 CME/CEU http://www.cape.org/1999 http://forums.behavior.net/evolutionary From: IN%"robin@coape.win-uk.net" "Robin Walker" 8-MAR-1999 14:23:38.18 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology Network (E-mail)" CC: Subj: Re:Post Traumatic Stress Disorder Loathe to affright you all gambolling on the Applied Ethology meadow I have wintered in my den gnawing on great dry books and bedded in reprints. I emerge with the Spring! Jonathan Shay's Achilles in Vietnam is a wonderful book dealing with Combat Trauma and The Undoing of Character. It has Homer and Shakespeare and I warmly recommend. Especially to those of you who may have been traumatised by your Rites of Passage. I speak of Final Examination Stress and the possible aftermath. for some years I have gathered casual anecdotes from graduates who have endured years of recurring dreams in which they relive the experiences of "Finals". I some individuals these become frank nightmares and can last for up to 25 years. (This was my experience). I am intrigued by the thought that this form of PTSD mirrors the descriptions of Shay and his veterans albeit on a much lesser scale of horror. Nevertheless I have come to believe that graduates in my own profession can be so traumatised by Finals that they carry forward into the most difficult years of working life varieties of the problems that devastate the soldier. Difficulties with relations with employers. Heightened sense of grievance. Short temper with clients. Nightmares about having to retake exams. Phobias such as startling at the telephone tone, Tachycardia in anticipation of criticism. Sweaty hands and stomach cramps and others I have no doubt. All these you might say are normal but I say they may be seriously exaggerated in someone (possibly innately reactive) who was acutely strained by the experience of Finals. Those of you who were unfazed and immune may dismiss with all the other solid suet puddings! Those of you who suffered something like this (I have heard from a former Dean of a Veterinary School who had recurrent nightmares about his PhD 'stats!) may reply to me in confidence or to the List if this proves to be of interest. I do believe that some careers have been damaged or terminated very early for lack of awareness of this amongst the sufferers and unheeding employers. Veterinarians are poised to begin taking better care of their sufferers. I sincerely believe that Exam. PTSD could be a part of the discussion and in many other professions. Robin E Walker B.Vet.Med. M.R.C.V.S. The Veterinary Clinic 78 Bromyard Road Worcester WR2 5DA Tel (++44 (0)1905 421296 Fax ++44 (0)1905 422287 Centre of Applied Pet Ethology Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors From: IN%"L.Jacobson@mirinz.org.nz" "L.Jacobson" 8-MAR-1999 15:28:08.55 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca'" CC: Subj: RE: Stress in the absence of the stressor Hi Carol, An interesting paper you might like to have a look at (if you haven't seen it already) is by M.B.Fontenot et al, 1995: Long-term effects of chronic social stress on serotonergic indices in the prefrontal cortex of adult male cynomolgus macaques. Brain Research 705:105-108. In this paper, they used 3 treatments: "no-stress" = stable social group membership, "past-stress" where group membership was changed monthly for the first 14 months of the study, then maintained stable in the last 14 months, and "recent-stress" where monthly social reorganization occurred in the latter 14 months, but was stable in the first 14 months. PFC serotonin was lower in the past-stress group than in the recent-stress and no-stress treatments (in that order, although stat. differences between groups were significant only between past-stress and no-stress (overall model was sig)). Same with the 5-HIAA (main metabolite of central serotonin - thought of as an indicator of serotonergic activity and turnover). Other monoamines measured were not affected. There was no effect of social rank, nor rank x stress interaction on serotonin or 5-HIAA. I found it an interesting paper as it discusses links between serotonin and depression, and post-traumatic stress disorder in humans, and linked it to their findings with animals (monkeys). In doing so they demonstrated that their monkeys were neurophysiologically affected by past psychological stressors - 14 months after the last social reorganization. Unfortunately, behaviour (other than social rank determined by outcome of agonistic encounters) was not included in the study. Laura Jacobson Researcher MIRINZ Food Technology and Research LTD PO Box 617 Hamilton Ph +64 7 8548550 ext 8735 email: l.jacobson@mirinz.org.nz -----Original Message----- From: Petherick, Carol [mailto:PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au] Sent: Monday, 8 March 1999 15:30 To: 'ethology' Subject: Stress in the absence of the stressor Hi All Last week somebody gave me the example of humans experiencing long-term stress and trauma when the stressor was no longer present e.g. soldiers who've gone through wars, people who've witnessed murders etc. and asked if this was possible in animals (non-human). My immediate, and longer term, response was "no; remove the stressor and the stress is removed", but is this the case? Does anybody know of any work/reports of long-term stress persisting after the removal of the stressor. I'm particularly interested in this concept with cattle, but would also be interested to hear if there's anything on other species. The only thing I can think of is maybe the social stress of being defeated by a dominant in some primates. Was it the case that even when the dominant and subordinate were separated that the subordinate continued to go into decline and died? Carol Carol Petherick Senior Research Scientist (Animal Behaviour & Welfare) Queensland Beef Industry Institute Tropical Beef Centre PO Box 5545 Central Qld Mail Centre Rockhampton Qld 4702 Australia email: petherc@dpi.qld.gov.au Tel: (0)7 4923 8200 Fax: (0)7 4923 8222 From: IN%"Pernille.F.Nielsen@ihh.kvl.dk" "Pernille Fraas Nielsen" 9-MAR-1999 03:48:08.88 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Second Announcement - Call for Abstracts Second Announcement - Call for Abstracts Assessment of Animal Welfare at Farm or Group Level 27-28th August 1999 in Copenhagen An international workshop organised by Danish Institute of Agricultural Sciences (DIAS) and The Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University (RVAU) Scientific programme Contributors are invited to submit abstracts on the following topics: =24 To present ways of assessing animal welfare in animal production = systems =24 To present ways of assessing animal welfare in laboratory animals =24 To present and to discuss methods for validating welfare indicators= =24 To deal with conceptual problems related to welfare assessment Participators are requested to submit a one page abstract on one of the = four topics. The Scientific Committee for the workshop will subsequently = evaluate the abstracts and prepare a programme for the workshop. Submission of abstracts Deadline for submission of abstracts is March 31 1999. Abstracts should be = sent to Danish Institute of Agricultural Sciences. P.O. Box 50, DK 8830 = Tjele, Denmark, Att: Jan Tind S=F8rensen, Fax: +45 89 99 15 00.=20 Publication Presented papers/posters are submitted to a Supplement to Acta Agriculturae= Scandinavica Animal Science. All participants will receive a copy of the = supplement.=20 Registration fee The registration fee is 745 dkr and includes lunch, refreshments during = coffee breaks, workshop dinner Friday evening, and a copy of the supplement= to Acta Agriculturae Scandinavica Animal Science. Accommodation is = available at the following prices (all including breakfast): 400-500 = dkr/night and 700-800 dkr/night. =20 Deadlines Abstract submission deadline: 31 March 1999 Abstracts notification of acceptance: 4 May 1999 Registration deadline: 17 May 1999 Deadline manuscripts for proceedings October 1999 On Behalf of the Organisers Jan Tind S=F8rensen (DIAS) & Pernille Fraas Johnsen (RVAU) From: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" 9-MAR-1999 09:57:57.47 To: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Stress in the absence of the stressor On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Petherick, Carol wrote: > Does anybody know of any work/reports of long-term stress > persisting after the removal of the stressor. I'm particularly interested > in this concept with cattle Hello all, I'm sorry that I don't have any information on this to share with you. I just wanted to say that I thought it was a really good thought-provoking question. I was thinking about long term effects of acute events like abrupt weaning, castration, branding etc. I asked a couple of people what they thought. The general feeling was that you brand them - they get over it, you wean them - they get over it, etc. I suppose if you think just in terms of a temporary setback in feeding and weight gain which they probably compensate for fairly soon, then that's true enough. I was thinking about subtle effects though. Do they show long term changes in behaviour following a really unpleasant experience? Does it affect their general reactivity, their success in coping with competitive interactions, their social behaviour? Do they become chronically fearful (and I don't just mean do they show learned aversion to a place or person)? Is there any evidence of a negative psychological state which persists for a long time, influencing their behaviour, health or performance. Of course I don't know the answers! But I think these are fair questions. How far down your list of research priorities you would push them depends on who pays you and what your take on animal welfare is. To me, it seems important to know whether bad experiences have long term effects that may be fairly slight in terms of the performance of the animal, but at the same time are important psychologically to the individuals concerned if you want to gauge the overall effects on welfare. It also looks as though it might be an angle on the subjective experiences question. Are we talking about an animal's response not to a traumatic stimulus, but it's ongoing response to it's present cognitive representations of an event that occurred in the past, which may have affected it's perceptions of what has occurred since, or is occurring in the present? A self-generated "virtual" stimulus if you like. To show that long-term behavioural changes could amount to more than just specific place or people aversion would underline the importance of cognition in the world view of cattle (even if only to help one argue that they HAVE a world view!). I'm not sure I've expressed this quite right... Oh dear. I'm starting to ramble again! I think I can see why this matters. I just don't know if my ravings make any sense. Jon ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Watts (___) ) ) University of Saskatchewan |o o|___________/ ( Dept of Herd Medicine O \#/ | ) and Theriogenology |bser| | Statistical | ( Western College of Vet. Med. |vati| | analysis | ) 52 Campus Drive |ons.| \___________/| *& Saskatoon ------ || || %$#@ S7N 1B4 / \ || || ^*@*~ Canada &^%%#$@ wattsjon@duke.usask.ca "The Holy Cow" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IN%"C.Dwyer@ed.sac.ac.uk" "cathy dwyer" 9-MAR-1999 11:30:00.16 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: PhD Studentships POST GRADUATE STUDENTSHIPS Three PhD studentships are available in the Animal Biology Division of SAC, based in Edinburgh, Scotland, beginning in October 1999. One studentship is in the Behavioural Sciences Department, and 2 within the Nutrition group: 1) SOAEFD Funded studentship: The role of variation in maternal behaviour in the behavioural organisation of their offspring in sheep and horses. REF 9/99 (Contact Dr Cathy Dwyer: c.dwyer@ed.sac.ac.uk) 2) BBSRC Funded studentship: Modelling the effects of environmental stressors on pig growth and intake. REF 10/99 (Contact Dr Ilias Kyriazakis: i.kyriazakis@ed.sac.ac.uk) 3) BBSRC CASE studentship: The biology of eating: modelling the relationship between short-term feeding behaviour and long term feed intake. REF 11/99 (Contact Dr Bert Tolkamp: b.tolkamp@ed.sac.ac.uk) Note that the BBSRC funded studentships are restricted to candidates who have right of residency in the UK (3 years prior residency not wholly for education purposes). EU nationals are eligible only for tuition fees. The SOAEFD funded studentship is in collaboration with Dr Adroaldo Zanella at Michigan State University and the student will be expected to spend at least 1 year of the studentship in the USA. Applicants are welcome to e-mail the above contacts for informal discussion about the studentships. Application forms and further particulars are available from Personnel Unit, SAC, West Mains Road, Edinburgh, EH9 3JG, Scotland, UK. Tel. +131 535 4343 (24 hr answering service) Fax. +131 535 4322 E-mail: personnel@ed.sac.ac.uk The closing date for applications is 1 April 1999. Please quote the appropriate reference. From: IN%"bregman@interactive.net" "VIVIAN BREGMAN" 9-MAR-1999 12:15:51.25 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Stress in the absence of the stressor At 09:56 AM 3/9/99 -0600, Jon Watts wrote: >On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Petherick, Carol wrote: > >> Does anybody know of any work/reports of long-term stress >> persisting after the removal of the stressor. I'm particularly interested >> in this concept with cattle > >Hello all, > >I'm sorry that I don't have any information on this to share with you. I >just wanted to say that I thought it was a really good thought-provoking >question. I was thinking about long term effects of acute events like >abrupt weaning, castration, branding etc. How about the long term effects of circumcision? It's probably just as traumatic to the baby as castration would be. Remember that neither the baby nor the animals understands the loss of anything for the future. You should have a large enough group of men to test on this matter. Sounds like a great project. Vivian Vivian Bregman -- dog trainer for forty years -- interested in everything to do with science, especially Biology --- vbregman@interactive.net From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 9-MAR-1999 16:21:26.07 To: IN%"Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com" CC: Subj: Looking for Radicals: Darwinian Feelings and Values Dear Colleague Subject: Evolutionary Theory and Psychopathology Please forgive my need for a generic format. Please share the following= announcement among your associates by whatever means possible! We're looking for people to enroll in a continuing education seminar to be taug= ht this summer on Cape Cod, the sorts of people who are determined, often a bit sleep deprived, high on ideas, and committed to helping on significan= t issues. I also have flyers should you know of sites where they might be= productive and people who are willing to put them up. Please let me know of any return postings that you would like distributed= on the BoL forum on Evolutionary Psychology and Clinical Sociobiology, http://forums.behavior.net/evolutionary. (Please note the absence of "www.") I plan to release one of these reminders monthly between now and the end = of June 1999; please let me know if I'm imposing too much. Many thanks! James Brody, Ph.D. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D John Price MD, Russell Gardner MD, John Fentress PhD, James Brody PhD Clinical Sociobiology: Darwinian Feelings and Values July 19-23, 1999 There is value in therapists knowing about evolution beyond its nastiness= . = Cooperation and competition are a crystal structure. We often focus mor= e on harm while taking nurturance for granted. Bad news is on the front page, the good stuff is in the back sections and sale papers. Every clie= nt has judgments about himself and others, judgments in regard to bad and good and attached to his emotional tools. Feelings, thoughts, and values= are tightly linked tools for regulating ourselves and our relations with other people; understanding the evolutionary roots of survival, reproduction, and altruism helps. = We trace Darwinian processes in our lives, marriages, and families and in= principles that can be used responsibly with our clients. Evolution outlines a map for constructive lives and for intervening in anxiety and depression, abuse, violence, and infidelity. "To convince" includes evolutionary finding's giving us the details of when we are most likely t= o betray others or ourselves, or to abuse our children or mates. Convicti= on also accompanies with the stories that we offer and whether such match wi= th our evolved common sense and other beliefs that we hold as seasoned teachers and therapists = Topics Natural selection and human psychological adaptations, our emotional and moral tools, retargeting the idea of "mismatch," implications from behavi= or genetics. The outgrowth of various disciplines from our traditional methods for extending comfort and help. Social behavior as an expression of our adaptations; evolutionary foundations for a basic science of psychiatry and psychology; story telli= ng and the transmission of values, gossip, and group monitoring. Survival and reproductive needs and the foundations of symptoms. Anxiety,= mood disorders, personality disorders. Origins, expressions, and interventions. Hierarchy Regulation and Distancing phenomena: = Genes as conversationalists with our settings, tuning genes & finding places to be ourselves. Optional Seminars: = These discussions supplement the morning presentations. Noon - 2 PM on M-Th, the morning's topics but in small groups for more personal contact. 7-10 PM on T, W, Th at the speakers' lodging. Diagnostics (T), complexit= y theory (W), & developmental genetics (Th). Goodies: Robin Walker from the UK will be with us again -- Course manual (300 pp.) -- pre-publication copies of Dylan Evans' introduction to evolution (if available) -- Interdisciplinary, lively audience -- T-shirt= s with Charles and William. Instructors: John Price, M.D. -- President of the World Psychiatric Association's Division on Psychotherapy -- co-author of the pioneering work, "Evolutionary Psychiatry" -- Probably the first to apply Darwinian models= to issues of mania and depression -- Many publications on evolutionary mechanisms and psychopathology -- Med. Res. Council Psychiatric Genetics= Unit, London -- a consultant, NHS where he is still fondly remembered -- (Price, Gardner, and Brody will speak at the nearby Paul MacLean Festschrift to be held July 16-17, 1999 in Boston.) Russell Gardner, M.D. -- Endowed Professor of Psychiatry at the Universi= ty of Texas, Galveston -- many writings on evolutionary psychiatry and sociophysiology -- writing a book, "Sociophysiology: Evolution, Behavio= r, and Psychiatry" -- advocates "sociophysiology" as the foundation science for psychiatry -- active in the Human Behavior and Evolution Society as well as ASCAP (Across Species Comparisons and Psychopathology) -- founded/edits The ASCAP Newsletter (a monthly publication in 11 volumes).= John Fentress, Ph.D. -- Professor of psychology and neuroscience, Dalhous= ie University -- studied ethology with R.A. Hinde and W.H. Thorpe at Cambrid= ge -- interested in animal communication, neural control and development of movement patterns -- has known many teachers and scientists from Jung, Tinbergen, Lorenz to Goodall and Edelman. Keenly interested in our understandings of genetic expressions and environmental cues for them. James Brody, Ph. D. -- Use of evolutionary theory and examples in private= practice -- -- developed the present course series on "Clinical Sociobiology: Taking Charge of Our Genes" -- posted 300+ essays on Evolutionary Psychology at Behavior OnLine (www.behavior.net/mhn/bolforum/message/27 and = http://forums.behavior.net/evolutionary -- has drafted 1 book and will ha= ve a second completed by July. Strong proponent for including sociobiology and a wider range of scientific information and disciplines into our concepts and applications. Reading list(s)/Speaker bios/Further information: JBrody@compuserve.com., http://forums.behavior.net/evolutionary =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Behavior OnLine has been commended by the A.P.A. Monitor, the Encyclopedi= a Britannica, and by "Home Computing." Prior Courses in this series were: "Clinical Sociobiology: Taking Charge of Our Genes," James Brody, Ph.D. &= John Pearce, M.D., August 1997. "Healing the Moral Animal: Lessons from Evolution," James Brody, Ph.D., Robert Wright, Russell Gardner, M.D. and John Pearce, M.D. with a guest contribution from Frank Sulloway, July 1998. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Cost: $455 ($300 for medical residents and graduate students) CE Hours: 15 hours Time: 9 AM-12:15 PM with extended sessions until 1:30 PM on M-Th. Sponsor: Albert Einstein Medical College, Bronx, NY, USA CE credentials: Einstein Medical College (EMC) is accredited by the Accreditation Council for Continuing Medical Education to sponsor continuing medical education for physicians. A maximum of 15 hrs of Category 1 credit for the AMA Physician's Recognition Award. EMC is authorized to offer CE credit to nurses. This program offers 18 contact hrs. = Einstein Medical College is approved by Amer. Psychological. Assn. to off= er CE to psychologists. Application has been made to Calif. Psych. Assn. to offer 15 hrs credit in accordance with mandatory (MCEP) requirements. The= APA sponsor maintains program responsibility. = Application has been made for 15 Category I NASW CEUs EMC is recognized by the Nat'l Board for Certified Counselors to offer CE= credit for National Certified Counselors. We adhere to NBCC Guidelines Application has been made to the Massachusetts Assn. for Marriage & Famil= y Therapy, Inc. Continuing Education Program to offer 15 contact hrs. To register, please call, mail or fax! Fax # (718) 430-8782 Phone registration: (718) 430-2307. Or print and complete the form below. --------------------------------- Registration for: CLINICAL SOCIOBIOLOGY: DARWINIAN FEELINGS AND VALUES Name:___________________________Degree_________ Address:_________________________________ City:_____________State & Zip:______________ Fax:_____________Email:___________________ Home phone ( )__________________________ Bus. Phone:( )___________________________ Discipline: ______________________________ Previously Attended Cape Cod Seminar? _______ Special Instructional Needs?_________________ Visa/MC#:________________________________ Signature:________________________________ Exp. date:________________________________ Fax # (718) 430-8782 Check attached: _____________ Please make check payable to Montefiore-Cape Cod . = Mail to Cape Cod Institute * Albert Einstein College of Medicine 1308 Belfer Bldg. * Bronx * NY 10461 Web Page: http://www.cape.org/1999/ We can mail you a complete brochure and more information about our progra= ms at your request. ------------ From: IN%"chaucer3@prodigy.net" "Shannon Hill" 9-MAR-1999 18:21:26.49 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Ethology Discussion Group" CC: Subj: EO Wilson This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_Fus92Dw/PPnx2vBnViX0wA) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hello All, The Association Southeastern Biologists' Meeting is being held at = University of South Carolina, Wilmington, from April 14 - 17 (sponsored = by tri-beta). The featured lecturer is none other than E.O. Wilson! = The following link contains registration and program information. Hope = to see you there! Shannon http://www.uncwil.edu/bio/asb/asbprog.htm --Boundary_(ID_Fus92Dw/PPnx2vBnViX0wA) Content-type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Hello = All,
 
The Association Southeastern Biologists' Meeting is = being held=20 at University of South Carolina, Wilmington,=20 from April 14 - 17 (sponsored by tri-beta).  The featured lecturer = is none=20 other than E.O. Wilson!  The following link contains registration = and=20 program information.  Hope to see you=20 there! 
 
Shannon 
 
http://www.uncwil.edu/= bio/asb/asbprog.htm
--Boundary_(ID_Fus92Dw/PPnx2vBnViX0wA)-- From: IN%"sandra.schoenreiter@tierhyg.vetmed.uni-muenchen.de" 10-MAR-1999 05:21:04.37 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: ACTH - stimulation Dear all, we'd like to perform a study with lactating cows and their stress response following adrenocorticotrophic hormone stimulation. Looking for injectable ACTH we were not able to find a licensed hormone drug until now. Does anybody have pharmacological information about these hormone products (especially time lag between application and harvesting)? Thank you in advance Sandra ************************************************************************ > Dr. Sandra Schoenreiter > Institut fuer Tierhygiene, Verhaltenskunde und Tierschutz > Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitaet Muenchen > Schwere-Reiter-Strasse 9 > D - 80797 Muenchen > > Tel. 089 - 15 20 28 > Fax 089 - 15 78 277 > e-mail: sandra.schoenreiter@tierhyg.vetmed.uni-muenchen.de ************************************************************************** From: IN%"Nabil.Brandl@agrsci.dk" "Nabil Brandl" 11-MAR-1999 04:45:58.69 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'a-ethology'" CC: Subj: EU-proposal project Dear All At Research Center Foulum, there is a group remote sensing. The group leads by Dr. Keith McCloy (e-mail: mailto:Keith.Mccloy@agrsci.dk ). The group consists of Research Scientists in Ag.engineering, Animal Scince and Animal behaviour. We trying to submitte a EU-project concerning a system to record and analyse animal movement, using GIS and image analysis. If you are interest in this project or other in your university/Institute, I will be greatfull to send me e-mail or send e-mail to the research leader Dr. Keith McCloy. Best regards and keep in touch ************************************************************* Nabil Brandl Danish Institute of Agricultural Sciences Dept. of Animal Health and Welfare Reseach Center Foulum P.O.Box 50, 8830 Denamrk Tjele E-mail: mailto:Nabil.Brandl@agrsci.dk Voice: 45-89991371 Fax: 45-89991500 HomePage: http://www.sh.dk/~nabil ******************************************************************* From: IN%"robin@coape.win-uk.net" "Robin Walker" 11-MAR-1999 08:05:28.44 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology Network (E-mail)" CC: Subj: Bolting in cattle and horses. I wonder if animals such as cattle can be sensitised by cataclysmic experience of fear and escape. During stress certain ascending dopamine systems become depleted of DA and the sequel is a hypersensitivity state. Repeated episodes of terror and escape might lead to heightening of spontaneous fearful responses and even aggression Such pehenomena are observed in rats chronically stimulated with apomorphine. The species typical herd behaviour being mass flight, is it possible that a group could become "flighty" in the long term if suitably sensitised? Robin E Walker B.Vet.Med. M.R.C.V.S. The Veterinary Clinic 78 Bromyard Road Worcester WR2 5DA Tel (++44 (0)1905 421296 Fax ++44 (0)1905 422287 Centre of Applied Pet Ethology Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors From: IN%"pfcarell@gw.dec.state.ny.us" "Paul Carella" 12-MAR-1999 11:06:35.45 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Stress in the absence of the stressor -Reply >>> VIVIAN BREGMAN 03/09/99 01:12pm >>> At 09:56 AM 3/9/99 -0600, Jon Watts wrote: >On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Petherick, Carol wrote: > >> Does anybody know of any work/reports of long-term stress >> persisting after the removal of the stressor. I'm particularly interested >> in this concept with cattle > >Hello all, > >I'm sorry that I don't have any information on this to share with you. I >just wanted to say that I thought it was a really good thought-provoking >question. I was thinking about long term effects of acute events like >abrupt weaning, castration, branding etc. How about the long term effects of circumcision? It's probably just as traumatic to the baby as castration would be. Remember that neither the baby nor the animals understands the loss of anything for the future. You should have a large enough group of men to test on this matter. Sounds like a great project. Vivian Vivian Bregman -- dog trainer for forty years -- interested in everything to do with science, especially Biology --- vbregman@interactive.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Vivian, I doubt that the trauma of circumcision has any lasting effect on a baby only a few days old. Remember, at age 0 we all go through an extremely traumatic event - birth. And the long-term effects are ........... Paul From: IN%"cgaboury@total.net" 12-MAR-1999 13:44:47.65 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Stress in the absence of the stressor -Reply Paul Carella wrote: > > >>> VIVIAN BREGMAN 03/09/99 01:12pm > >>> > At 09:56 AM 3/9/99 -0600, Jon Watts wrote: > >On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Petherick, Carol wrote: > > > >> Does anybody know of any work/reports of long-term stress > >> persisting after the removal of the stressor. I'm particularly interested > >> in this concept with cattle > > > >Hello all, > > > >I'm sorry that I don't have any information on this to share with you. I > >just wanted to say that I thought it was a really good thought-provoking > >question. I was thinking about long term effects of acute events like > >abrupt weaning, castration, branding etc. > How about the long term effects of circumcision? > It's probably just as traumatic to the baby as castration would be. > Remember that neither the baby nor the animals understands the loss of > anything for the future. > > You should have a large enough group of men to test on this matter. > Sounds like a great project. > > Vivian > > Vivian Bregman -- dog trainer for forty years -- > interested in everything to do with science, > especially Biology --- vbregman@interactive.net > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Vivian, > > I doubt that the trauma of circumcision has any lasting effect on a > baby only a few days old. Remember, at age 0 we all go through an > extremely traumatic event - birth. And the long-term effects are ........... > > Paul I think another important difference between an animal and a human is that the animal may associate the person (such as the producer or the vet) with the traumatic event which might cause a situation of chronic stress, if this person is often in its environment. Every time the animal sees the person who inflicted the pain on the animal the first time, they may fear that they will receive similar pain again. On the other hand, humans are able to understand that the sight of a doctor does not automatically mean circumcision. From: IN%"JNM@dmu.ac.uk" "Jeremy Marchant" 12-MAR-1999 14:16:16.37 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: FW: Postdoc job This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --Boundary_(ID_F5oGtYQ+TqGkDivWi4c6Sw) Content-type: text/plain If anyone out there is interested in this position, then please contact Sandra Edwards ---------------------------------------------------- Dr. Jeremy Marchant, School of Agriculture, De Montfort University, Caythorpe, Grantham, Lincs., NG32 3 EP, UK. +44 1400 275682 jnm@dmu.ac.uk ----------------------------------------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: Sandra Edwards [SMTP:agr923@abdn.ac.uk] > Sent: 12 March 1999 14:14 > To: Jeremy Marchant > Subject: Re: Postdoc job > > > Jeremy > > Please could you draw the attention of anyone who might be > interested to the attached job details. > > Thanks > > Sandra > ---------------------- > Sandra Edwards > Department of Agriculture > University of Aberdeen > Tel 01224 274222 > Fax 01224 273731 > s.edwards@abdn.ac.uk > > <> 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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA== --Boundary_(ID_F5oGtYQ+TqGkDivWi4c6Sw)-- From: IN%"appleby@petbcent.demon.co.uk" "David Appleby" 13-MAR-1999 05:00:30.41 To: CC: Subj: APBC's Annual Review Of Cases 1998 Dear all, The Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors Annual Review Of Cases 1998 is now available on the web at http://www.apbc.org.uk/report98.html#TOP Best wishes. David ---------------------------------------- Name:David Appleby Address:The Pet Behaviour Centre, Upper street, Defford, Worcestershire. WR8 9AB.England. Phone:+44(0)1386 750615 Fax:+44(0)1386 750743 E-mail:appleby@petbcent.demon.co.uk WWW: http://www.petbcent.demon.co.uk ---------------------------------------- From: IN%"ragtuswa@eden.rutgers.edu" "Michael Toscano" 15-MAR-1999 00:39:02.87 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology" CC: Subj: hormones Dear all, This is a question more of curiosity than anything else. I read some time last year in the American Association of Zoo Keepers(AAZK) publication of occasional odd, usually aggressive behaviors female keepers who were pregnant observed in the animals they cared for. The article suggested their changing hormonal state could be a factor. Today, I remembered a behavior consult I sat in on between a behaviorist, a couple, and their dog who was very excitable. The couple was expecting a child in several months and were concerned about recent aggression shown by the dog and the danger it presented with a child. Neither of these cases provide much information to chew on, but, does anyone have knowledge of a woman's (or man's) hormonal status effecting the animal(s) she/he lives or work with. Thanks in advance, mike toscano ragtuswa@eden.rutgers.edu From: IN%"mappleby@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk" "Mike Appleby" 15-MAR-1999 06:25:09.82 To: IN%"applied-ethology@usask.ca" CC: Subj: UK studentship on learning in hens UNIVERSITY OF EDINBURGH ANIMAL WELFARE RESEARCH GROUP Postgraduate studentship in Animal Behaviour Learning in domestic hens Applications are invited for a three year BBSRC postgraduate studentship on incentive value learning and incentive contrast in domestic hens, tenable from 1st October 1999 and based at Roslin Institute (Edinburgh). We regret that BBSRC funded studentships are restricted to candidates who have right of residency in the UK (3 years prior residency not wholly for education purposes). EU nationals are eligible only for tuition fees. The project will investigate (a) how hens learn about food, including the value of novel foods, (b) how hens learn about other aspects of their environment, such as nest boxes and dust-bathing substrates, and (c) how this affects the results of preference tests used to assess animal welfare. The studentship will be associated with the Roslin Institute's project on `Cognition, aggression and frustration in the domestic hen'. The studies will have implications for the management, feeding and welfare of all farm animals, and for the design and management of housing systems. Applicants should hold or expect to obtain at least an upper second class degree in biological science. They should have experience of animal behaviour and preferably learning theory. The studentship will be supervised by Dr Mike Appleby (University of Edinburgh, Tel 0131 535 4098, Fax 0131 667 2601, Email michael.appleby@ed.ac.uk), from whom more details may be obtained, and Dr Marie Haskell (Roslin Institute, Tel 0131 527 4422, Fax 0131 440 0434, Email marie.haskell@bbsrc.ac.uk). Applications, including a c.v. and the names of two referees, should be sent to: University of Edinburgh Animal Welfare Research Group, Roslin Institute (Edinburgh), Roslin, Midlothian EH25 9PS, UK by 30th April 1999. Michael Appleby Dr M.C. Appleby Director of Postgraduate Studies in Agriculture & Resource Economics Institute of Ecology and Resource Management University of Edinburgh West Mains Road Edinburgh EH9 3JG, UK Tel. +44 131 535 4098 Fax. +44 131 667 2601 Email mappleby@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk or michael.appleby@ed.ac.uk From: IN%"marie.haskell@bbsrc.ac.uk" "marie.haskell" 15-MAR-1999 06:50:03.92 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: IN%"/C=GB/ADMD=/PRMD=UK.AC/O=ed/OU=bio.srv0/PN=mappleby/%x400dmw@bbsrc.ac.uk" Subj: PhD studentship A PhD studentship is available at the Roslin Institute (Edinburgh), located near Edinburgh in Scotland, beginning in October 1999. Behavioural traits in cattle The aim of the study is to characterise behavioural traits in cattle relevant to animal production and welfare, in terms of maternal and neonatal behaviour, docility and aggression. This work will be carried out in collaboration with the bovine genome mapping programme at Roslin, with the long-term aim of understanding the genetics of behaviour. The successful candidate will receive an excellent scientific and research training including access to programmes in transferable skills including statistics, experimental design, computing and presentation skills, career planning and a thesis workshop. Students will be registered with the University of Edinburgh Graduate School of Biology. For details of the projects and further information, visit our web page at http://www.ri.bbsrc.ac.uk or contact marie.haskell@bbsrc.ac.uk. Applicants should hold a first or upper second class degree in an appropriate discipline. Applications including a full CV and the names and addresses of two scientific referees should be sent to: Ms Frances Frame, Roslin Institute (Edinburgh), Roslin, Midlothian EH25 9PS by 31st March, 1999. The studentship is only open to EU members.