From: IN%"simon@gadbois.org" "Simon Gadbois" 15-MAR-2004 12:50:52.22 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Instinct vs Cognition On 15-Mar-04, at 6:57 AM, Geiger wrote: > Preparedness theory's archtypical example of contrapreparedness was > that a > dog (not a wolf) could not yawn for food. This is the one thing > Seligman > hung his hat on. Now that I have laid that myth to rest, you still > defend > preparedness? It is only one of the many examples of preparedness in the animal world. > That is unscientific and betrays an emotional, not scientific, > attachment. I have no attachment whatsoever for that theory. If you prove it or disprove it, I am happy. > Preparedness may have grown like topsy over the years based on mistaken > assertions (eg that a dog could not yawn for food). For that specific case, I totally agree. > I guessed that preparedness followers would try to defend it or > resurrect it > in some other form. It does not need to be resurrected, it is out there full fledge in behavioural biology and comparative psychology alike. > Now that the goal is kicked, they seek to move the goal posts. > It is my contention that anything can be trained, regardless of what is > functionally adaptive. The limitations that appear to occur in > training are > practical and > not in principle. Eg lack of rapport between the human and the > animal. Can I train my dog to drive a car? To speak French (or English)? To do calculus? No. Why? These are not adaptive behaviours (yet) for dogs. It is that simple. The "biological constraints" theories are not committing themselves more, or less than that. > No experiment is required to contradict Seligman's preparedness; just > a dog > yawning on cue, which is of course an in vivo experiment. Once more, this is only one case of many out there. > The method used to teach him to yawn would best be made the subject of > a > paper. I agree 100% > I am not fully current with the modern versions of preparedness, but > the > foundation has been seriously undermined. The early version, yes, I am sure. The modern one. Very little. I think we agree more than you think. I am just saying, we can't destroy the modern theory based on only one case, one species, one behaviour. --- Simon Gadbois, Ph.D. Psychology/Neuroscience Dalhousie University Halifax, NS Canada, B3H 4J1 902-494-8848 www.gadbois.org/academic (Neuro)ethology & behavioural endocrinology From: IN%"gooddog@dodo.com.au" "Geiger" 15-MAR-2004 14:52:20.82 To: IN%"simon@gadbois.org" "'Simon Gadbois'", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Instinct vs Cognition That a dog can not drive a car and we lack an acute sense of smell are in my opinion examples of lack of physiologic preparedness, or something other than psychologic preparedness. (Anatomical preparedness?) Psychologic preparedness seems to be the kind of thing that can be theorized but not proven. It is unscientific in nature. For every example of psychologic preparedness, there is likely to be a counter example, in my opinion. The dog trainers I have spoken with all find the idea of psychologic preparedness counter-intuitive, as do I. Jackie Perkins Veterinary Behaviour Consulting Australia -----Original Message----- From: Simon Gadbois [mailto:simon@gadbois.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 4:50 AM To: Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Subject: Re: Instinct vs Cognition On 15-Mar-04, at 6:57 AM, Geiger wrote: > Preparedness theory's archtypical example of contrapreparedness was > that a > dog (not a wolf) could not yawn for food. This is the one thing > Seligman > hung his hat on. Now that I have laid that myth to rest, you still > defend > preparedness? It is only one of the many examples of preparedness in the animal world. > That is unscientific and betrays an emotional, not scientific, > attachment. I have no attachment whatsoever for that theory. If you prove it or disprove it, I am happy. > Preparedness may have grown like topsy over the years based on mistaken > assertions (eg that a dog could not yawn for food). For that specific case, I totally agree. > I guessed that preparedness followers would try to defend it or > resurrect it > in some other form. It does not need to be resurrected, it is out there full fledge in behavioural biology and comparative psychology alike. > Now that the goal is kicked, they seek to move the goal posts. > It is my contention that anything can be trained, regardless of what is > functionally adaptive. The limitations that appear to occur in > training are > practical and > not in principle. Eg lack of rapport between the human and the > animal. Can I train my dog to drive a car? To speak French (or English)? To do calculus? No. Why? These are not adaptive behaviours (yet) for dogs. It is that simple. The "biological constraints" theories are not committing themselves more, or less than that. > No experiment is required to contradict Seligman's preparedness; just > a dog > yawning on cue, which is of course an in vivo experiment. Once more, this is only one case of many out there. > The method used to teach him to yawn would best be made the subject of > a > paper. I agree 100% > I am not fully current with the modern versions of preparedness, but > the > foundation has been seriously undermined. The early version, yes, I am sure. The modern one. Very little. I think we agree more than you think. I am just saying, we can't destroy the modern theory based on only one case, one species, one behaviour. --- Simon Gadbois, Ph.D. Psychology/Neuroscience Dalhousie University Halifax, NS Canada, B3H 4J1 902-494-8848 www.gadbois.org/academic (Neuro)ethology & behavioural endocrinology From: IN%"m.dierendonck@planet.nl" 21-MAR-2004 17:21:16.10 To: IN%"bmccowan@vmtrc.ucdavis.edu" "'Brenda McCowan'", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Software for calculating dominance ranking Dear All, In addition to Simon's and Andy's remarks:=20 It is not specifically The observer from Noldus who can calculate the = dominance hierarchies, but the MatMan add into Excel manufactured by the = same company (www.noldus.com I guess). Read the articles of Han de Vries who did a lot of work in this area, = for instance: De Vries H. Finding a Dominance Order Most Consistent With a Linear = Hierarchy: a New Procedure and Review. Animal Behaviour 1998; 55:827-43. =EF=80=AD Devries H. An Improved Test of Linearity in Dominance = Hierarchies Containing Unknown or Tied Relationships. Animal Behaviour = 1995; 50:1375-89. =EF=80=AD Devries H. The Rowwise Correlation Between 2 Proximity = Matrices and the Partial Rowwise Correlation. Psychometrika 1993; = 58(1):53-69. =EF=80=AD Devries H, Netto WJ, Hanegraaf PLH. Matman - a Program for = the Analysis of Sociometric Matrices and Behavioral Transition Matrices. = Behaviour 1993; 125:157-75. =EF=80=AD Vandierendonck MC, Devries H, Schilder MBH. An Analysis of = Dominance, Its Behavioural Parameters and Possible Determinants in a = Herd of Icelandic Horses in Captivity. Netherlands Journal of Zoology = 1995; 45(3-4):362-85. =09 Be aware you need to calculate the linearity of an hierarchy before = making all kind of relations with possible (cofounding) factors. Machteld vqan Dierendonck =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Machteld van Dierendonck m.c.vandierendonck@vet.uu.nl=20 m.dierendonck@planet.nl -----Original Message----- From: Brenda McCowan [mailto:bmccowan@vmtrc.ucdavis.edu]=20 Sent: zondag 14 maart 2004 0:59 To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca Subject: Software for calculating dominance ranking Applied Ethology Group: I am interested to know if there are any windows-based software programs that can calculate dominance rank based upon win-lose interactions. Thanks for your help in advance! Brenda McCowan Brenda McCowan, Ph.D. Assistant Research Professor VMTRC-UC Davis 18830 Road 112 Tulare, CA 93274 Phone: 559-688-1731 ext. 264 Fax: 559-686-4231 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet = gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst = waar op wordt gecontroleerd. From: IN%"ceannicrc@yahoo.com" "Cecilia Lambert" 22-MAR-2004 09:47:46.03 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Wolf Behavior Seminar at Wolf Park For anyone who may be interested, the 5day Wolf Behavior Seminar is Sceheduled for Oct.6. At Wolf Park in Battleground, Indiana Five day Wolf Behavior Seminars consist of lectures, slides,video,and more. Great for anyone who wants an in-depth, ethologically-based look at wolves. Seminars are based on research carried out at Wolf Park since 1972. Enrollment is limited to 25. The cost is $475. There is also, " Natural History of Dogs" with Ray Coppinger on Nov.5-7. The cost is $295 "Natural History of Dogs" is taught by Ray Coppinger, co-author of Dogs, and explores the origin and evolution of and the nature of their unusual ongoing relationship with humans. The telephone number of Wolf Park is 1-765-567-2265 Or you may sign up 0n-line at www.wolfpark.org There are other seminars available. I just picked the two that someone on this list might be interested in. CeAnn Lambert ===== CeAnn Lambert Indiana Coyote Rescue Center www.WolfPark.org/ICRC __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From: IN%"gooddog@dodo.com.au" "Geiger" 24-MAR-2004 16:11:08.14 To: IN%"rholmes@bigpond.net.au" "'Robert Holmes'", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: what limit on barking? This is a tough issue! How long should a dog be permitted to bark before it is considered a nuisance? You may be tempted to say that it varies for each dog, but the important issue here in my view is how much can people tolerate before it effects their health? A barking dog reaches into the 90 dbs, which can cause industrial deafness and is incompatible with human health and happiness. The noise generated by children is peanuts by comparison. Anyway, society exists for humans and children primarily. Some people are noise sensitive. Some people work shifts and expect to be able to sleep during the day. Some people have mental illness and have a low tolerance to noise stress, or any kind of stress. In my view these people all need to take priority over a "dogs right to bark"... Does society exist for the health of humans, or the pleasure of dogs? Acoustics are weird too....one neighbour may find all the noise channels to them, hence the so called one whingy neighbour. Noise travels uphill, for example. I know of many examples where perhaps just one person in one household is severely effected by a neighbouring barker. Eg a dog barking at a child every time that child is in their bedroom, where the window is close to the neighbouring dog's fence. The current view is that dogs can bark for up to 6 minutes in any hour during the day. What a can of worms that opens!!! It is impossible to define noise in this manner. Noise does not start or end discretely. Also, does it count as noise if one's ears are still ringing? What about echo? Let us run with the 6 mins per hour for now. In my neighbourhood everyone owns a dog, predominantly working breeds. There would easily be ten dogs which any household can hear at any time. If each dog barked its quota serially, there would be non-stop barking!!! Which there often is, by the way. The hilly terrain causes barking to recirculate and echo adding to the dilemma of noise definition. When one dog barks, it adds to everyone else's problem of controlling their dog's barking. Who of you all out there can honestly claim to enjoy listening to a dog barking, especially someone else's dog? Personally, I do not wish to listen to even 6 minutes per hour of barking.... My own dogs rarely bark. Jackie Perkins Veterinary Behaviour Consulting GOOD DOG Australia From: IN%"derek.haley@usask.ca" 24-MAR-2004 16:48:00.08 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: ISAE Reminder & Employment Opportunity Dear All, REMINDER: 2-Apr is the scheduled deadline for both abstract submissions and early registration for the North American ISAE regional meeting, being held 18- 20 June in West Lafayette, IN, USA (hosted by Purdue University and the USDA Livestock Behavior Research Unit). The following is an employment opportunity from Jeff Rushen: Post-doctoral positions in farm animal welfare Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada anticipates hiring some postdoctoral fellows, working on the welfare and behaviour of farm animals. About 50% of the time will be spent on research projects on dairy and beef cattle, swine and poultry. The remainder will be working on a project to develop auditable animal welfare standards for farm animals. For more information contact Dr. Jeff Rushen: rushenj@agr.gc.ca. Closing date for applications: Open until qualified candidates are identified. (This employment opportunity and others are posted to: http://www.applied- ethology.org/employment.htm) Derek Haley ____________________________ ISAE Communications Officer ISAE Regional Secretary -- Canada #301, 4920 - 51 Street, Red Deer, AB Canada -- T4N 6K8 From: IN%"sunette@tdcadsl.dk" "Sunette Gjede" 25-MAR-2004 11:28:42.94 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: to those who want to unsubscribe! I'm a bit tired of getting e-mails from people who want to unsubscribe, please do not send it to the whole network, but: REMOVAL FROM NETWORK: If at anytime you wish to be removed from the network, send message to: applied-ethology-request@sask.usask.ca Within the text of your message (NOT at the subject header) you must type the command: UNSUBSCRIBE applied-ethology Regards, Sunette, DK From: IN%"mappleby@hsus.org" "Michael Appleby" 26-MAR-2004 12:42:15.84 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: New behaviour described in pigs Dear All You may be amused by the description of nesting behaviour in pigs in the article below. If it were true, it would certainly be new to science. The article concerns a bill that we were supporting in the Maryland Senate, to require that sows should be given sufficient space to turn round rather than kept in narrow gestation crates. Unfortunately there was a lot of misinformation around as usual - as you can see in the article, with people talking about piglets (irrelevant during gestation, but people muddle gestation and farrowing crates) and claiming that such a change would be "a death knell for the industry." Oh well, perhaps we'll have better luck next time. Mike Michael C. Appleby (Dr) Vice-President Farm Animals and Sustainable Agriculture The Humane Society of the United States 2100 L Street, NW Washington, DC 20037, USA Switchboard 1 202 452 1100 Direct 1 301 258 3111 Fax 1 301 258 3081 Email mappleby@hsus.org The Herald-Mail ONLINE Senate blocks bill that would regulate crates by LAURA ERNDE March 25, 2004 http://www.herald-mail.com/?module=displaystory&story_id=75896&format=ht ml Annapolis - The Maryland Senate on Monday blocked animal rights advocates from regulating crates used to house pregnant pigs. Opponents of the legislation argued that regulation is unnecessary and would hurt hog farmers. "This would be a very, very serious death knell to the hog industry, what's left of it," said Sen. J. Lowell Stoltzfus, R-Eastern Shore. The legislation, sponsored by Montgomery County Democrat Sharon Grosfeld, would have required farrowing crates to be large enough for sows to turn around. Some crates are made so sows cannot turn around or lie down, she said. "It's just inhumane," said Sen. Joan Carter Conway, D-Baltimore City. Gerald Ditto, a former hog farmer in Washington County, said the crates are designed to protect piglets from being accidentally crushed by their mothers. In the wild, pregnant pigs nest by digging cone-shaped holes in the ground that allow the piglets to fall to the bottom and the sow to rest on the sides above them. That type of housing arrangement is impractical in a commercial farming operation, he said. Most animal rights advocates don't have a realistic idea of what happens on a farm, said Ditto, who got out of the hog farming business last year. "We put too much emphasis on animals and not enough on people," Ditto said. All three Washington County senators voted against the bill when it died on a vote of 22-25. From: IN%"gooddog@dodo.com.au" "Geiger" 28-MAR-2004 17:24:18.39 To: IN%"mosi2000@libero.it" "'mosi2000'", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: what limit on barking? Biting is normal too, should we accept being bitten by dogs we do not know out in public? Running children and eating horses do not impact on human health. The point is, we modify all manner of behaviours which are normal, in order for animals to live in harmony with humans. Barking has a negative impact on human health just as biting does. If we do not take the initiative and control these issues in favour of human health, these issues will be taken out of our hands, and the legislations imposed by governments may be idiotic. Most local governments in my city have imposed a 6 minute per hour "quota" on barking, which does not seem to work very well. It is an arbitrary limit and is impossible to monitor. Let us take the initiative. Regards, Jackie Perkins. Australia -----Original Message----- From: mosi2000 [mailto:mosi2000@libero.it] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:33 PM To: gooddog Subject: Re:what limit on barking? Barking is a normal behaviour for dogs so we have to accept it as we accept running in kids or eating in horses! The issue here is how dog's owners (as baby's owners!) are respectfull towards other people! It's not a matter related to dogs (6 minutes of barking etc.) but a matter related to humans! How, as a responsible owner, we are keen to train and educate our dogs to live in harmony in a complex society? Good luck Simo - Italy Dog's owner ---------- Initial Header ----------- >From : "Geiger" gooddog@dodo.com.au To : "Robert Holmes" rholmes@bigpond.net.au,Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Cc : Date : Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:09:59 +1000 Subject : what limit on barking? > This is a tough issue! How long should a dog be permitted to bark before it > is considered a nuisance? You may be tempted to say that it varies for each > dog, but the important issue here in my view is how much can people tolerate > before it effects their health? A barking dog reaches into the 90 dbs, which > can cause industrial deafness and is incompatible with human health and > happiness. > The noise generated by children is peanuts by comparison. Anyway, society > exists for humans and children primarily. > Some people are noise sensitive. Some people work shifts and expect to be > able to sleep during the day. Some people have mental illness and have a low > tolerance to noise stress, or any kind of stress. In my view these people > all need to take priority over a "dogs right to bark"... Does society exist > for the health of humans, or the pleasure of dogs? > Acoustics are weird too....one neighbour may find all the noise channels to > them, hence the so called one whingy neighbour. Noise travels uphill, for > example. I know of many examples where perhaps just one person in one > household is severely effected by a neighbouring barker. Eg a dog barking at > a child every time that child is in their bedroom, where the window is close > to the neighbouring dog's fence. > The current view is that dogs can bark for up to 6 minutes in any hour > during the day. What a can of worms that opens!!! It is impossible to define > noise in this manner. Noise does not start or end discretely. Also, does it > count as noise if one's ears are still ringing? What about echo? > Let us run with the 6 mins per hour for now. In my neighbourhood everyone > owns a dog, predominantly working breeds. There would easily be ten dogs > which any household can hear at any time. If each dog barked its quota > serially, there would be non-stop barking!!! Which there often is, by the > way. The hilly terrain causes barking to recirculate and echo adding to the > dilemma of noise definition. When one dog barks, it adds to everyone else's > problem of controlling their dog's barking. > Who of you all out there can honestly claim to enjoy listening to a dog > barking, especially someone else's dog? Personally, I do not wish to listen > to even 6 minutes per hour of barking.... > My own dogs rarely bark. > Jackie Perkins > Veterinary Behaviour Consulting > GOOD DOG > Australia > > > From: IN%"ceannicrc@yahoo.com" "Cecilia Lambert" 28-MAR-2004 17:55:34.52 To: IN%"gooddog@dodo.com.au" "Geiger", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: what limit on barking? Jackie, What would be your solution for me, if you moved in next door? I have nineteen coyotes, two foxes and four dogs. Should my animals and I have to try to modify our behavior to accommidate you? How would you suggest that we do that? I have a friend and her ears actually hurt when the coyotes howl. She knows they are here and she knows how important they are to me. I know her ears hurt. We take breaks and leave the property for awhile. We accomidate each other and the coyotes. That is the way that life works. I don't like her yelling at her dogs. It is a trade off. CeAnn --- Geiger wrote: > Biting is normal too, should we accept being bitten > by dogs we do not know > out in public? > Running children and eating horses do not impact on > human health. > The point is, we modify all manner of behaviours > which are normal, in order > for animals to live in harmony with humans. > Barking has a negative impact on human health just > as biting does. > If we do not take the initiative and control these > issues in favour of human > health, these issues will be taken out of our hands, > and the legislations > imposed by governments may be idiotic. > Most local governments in my city have imposed a 6 > minute per hour "quota" > on barking, which does not seem to work very well. > It is an arbitrary limit > and is impossible to monitor. > Let us take the initiative. > Regards, > Jackie Perkins. > Australia > > -----Original Message----- > From: mosi2000 [mailto:mosi2000@libero.it] > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:33 PM > To: gooddog > Subject: Re:what limit on barking? > > Barking is a normal behaviour for dogs so we have to > accept it as we accept > running in kids or eating in horses! The issue here > is how dog's owners (as > baby's owners!) are respectfull towards other > people! It's not a matter > related to dogs (6 minutes of barking etc.) but a > matter related to humans! > How, as a responsible owner, we are keen to train > and educate our dogs to > live in harmony in a complex society? > Good luck > Simo - Italy > > > Dog's owner > ---------- Initial Header ----------- > > >From : "Geiger" gooddog@dodo.com.au > To : "Robert Holmes" > rholmes@bigpond.net.au,Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca > Cc : > Date : Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:09:59 +1000 > Subject : what limit on barking? > > > This is a tough issue! How long should a dog be > permitted to bark before > it > > is considered a nuisance? You may be tempted to > say that it varies for > each > > > dog, but the important issue here in my view is > how much can people > tolerate > > before it effects their health? A barking dog > reaches into the 90 dbs, > which > > can cause industrial deafness and is incompatible > with human health and > > happiness. > > The noise generated by children is peanuts by > comparison. Anyway, society > > exists for humans and children primarily. > > Some people are noise sensitive. Some people work > shifts and expect to be > > able to sleep during the day. Some people have > mental illness and have a > low > > tolerance to noise stress, or any kind of stress. > In my view these people > > all need to take priority over a "dogs right to > bark"... Does society > exist > > for the health of humans, or the pleasure of dogs? > > Acoustics are weird too....one neighbour may find > all the noise channels > to > > them, hence the so called one whingy neighbour. > Noise travels uphill, for > > example. I know of many examples where perhaps > just one person in one > > household is severely effected by a neighbouring > barker. Eg a dog barking > at > > a child every time that child is in their bedroom, > where the window is > close > > to the neighbouring dog's fence. > > The current view is that dogs can bark for up to 6 > minutes in any hour > > during the day. What a can of worms that opens!!! > It is impossible to > define > > noise in this manner. Noise does not start or end > discretely. Also, does > it > > count as noise if one's ears are still ringing? > What about echo? > > Let us run with the 6 mins per hour for now. In my > neighbourhood everyone > > owns a dog, predominantly working breeds. There > would easily be ten dogs > > which any household can hear at any time. If each > dog barked its quota > > serially, there would be non-stop barking!!! Which > there often is, by the > > way. The hilly terrain causes barking to > recirculate and echo adding to > the > > dilemma of noise definition. When one dog barks, > it adds to everyone > else's > > problem of controlling their dog's barking. > > Who of you all out there can honestly claim to > enjoy listening to a dog > > barking, especially someone else's dog? > Personally, I do not wish to > listen > > to even 6 minutes per hour of barking.... > > My own dogs rarely bark. > > Jackie Perkins > > Veterinary Behaviour Consulting > > GOOD DOG > > Australia > > > > > > > > > > > ===== CeAnn Lambert Indiana Coyote Rescue Center www.WolfPark.org/ICRC __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com" 28-MAR-2004 18:02:14.24 To: IN%"ceannicrc@yahoo.com", IN%"gooddog@dodo.com.au", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Suicide Are there any animals that seem to intentionally commit suicide? Beaching cetaceans? Any other examples? From: IN%"gooddog@dodo.com.au" "Geiger" 28-MAR-2004 18:02:31.64 To: IN%"ceannicrc@yahoo.com" "'Cecilia Lambert'", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: what limit on barking? No need to make this personal, but if you want to live like that, it is your choice. But it is not a choice you can impose on unsuspecting neighbours. Do the right thing by your fellow humans; Go live in the middle of a very large acreage. Jackie Perkins -----Original Message----- From: Cecilia Lambert [mailto:ceannicrc@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:55 AM To: Geiger; applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Subject: RE: what limit on barking? Jackie, What would be your solution for me, if you moved in next door? I have nineteen coyotes, two foxes and four dogs. Should my animals and I have to try to modify our behavior to accommidate you? How would you suggest that we do that? I have a friend and her ears actually hurt when the coyotes howl. She knows they are here and she knows how important they are to me. I know her ears hurt. We take breaks and leave the property for awhile. We accomidate each other and the coyotes. That is the way that life works. I don't like her yelling at her dogs. It is a trade off. CeAnn --- Geiger wrote: > Biting is normal too, should we accept being bitten > by dogs we do not know > out in public? > Running children and eating horses do not impact on > human health. > The point is, we modify all manner of behaviours > which are normal, in order > for animals to live in harmony with humans. > Barking has a negative impact on human health just > as biting does. > If we do not take the initiative and control these > issues in favour of human > health, these issues will be taken out of our hands, > and the legislations > imposed by governments may be idiotic. > Most local governments in my city have imposed a 6 > minute per hour "quota" > on barking, which does not seem to work very well. > It is an arbitrary limit > and is impossible to monitor. > Let us take the initiative. > Regards, > Jackie Perkins. > Australia > > -----Original Message----- > From: mosi2000 [mailto:mosi2000@libero.it] > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:33 PM > To: gooddog > Subject: Re:what limit on barking? > > Barking is a normal behaviour for dogs so we have to > accept it as we accept > running in kids or eating in horses! The issue here > is how dog's owners (as > baby's owners!) are respectfull towards other > people! It's not a matter > related to dogs (6 minutes of barking etc.) but a > matter related to humans! > How, as a responsible owner, we are keen to train > and educate our dogs to > live in harmony in a complex society? > Good luck > Simo - Italy > > > Dog's owner > ---------- Initial Header ----------- > > >From : "Geiger" gooddog@dodo.com.au > To : "Robert Holmes" > rholmes@bigpond.net.au,Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca > Cc : > Date : Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:09:59 +1000 > Subject : what limit on barking? > > > This is a tough issue! How long should a dog be > permitted to bark before > it > > is considered a nuisance? You may be tempted to > say that it varies for > each > > > dog, but the important issue here in my view is > how much can people > tolerate > > before it effects their health? A barking dog > reaches into the 90 dbs, > which > > can cause industrial deafness and is incompatible > with human health and > > happiness. > > The noise generated by children is peanuts by > comparison. Anyway, society > > exists for humans and children primarily. > > Some people are noise sensitive. Some people work > shifts and expect to be > > able to sleep during the day. Some people have > mental illness and have a > low > > tolerance to noise stress, or any kind of stress. > In my view these people > > all need to take priority over a "dogs right to > bark"... Does society > exist > > for the health of humans, or the pleasure of dogs? > > Acoustics are weird too....one neighbour may find > all the noise channels > to > > them, hence the so called one whingy neighbour. > Noise travels uphill, for > > example. I know of many examples where perhaps > just one person in one > > household is severely effected by a neighbouring > barker. Eg a dog barking > at > > a child every time that child is in their bedroom, > where the window is > close > > to the neighbouring dog's fence. > > The current view is that dogs can bark for up to 6 > minutes in any hour > > during the day. What a can of worms that opens!!! > It is impossible to > define > > noise in this manner. Noise does not start or end > discretely. Also, does > it > > count as noise if one's ears are still ringing? > What about echo? > > Let us run with the 6 mins per hour for now. In my > neighbourhood everyone > > owns a dog, predominantly working breeds. There > would easily be ten dogs > > which any household can hear at any time. If each > dog barked its quota > > serially, there would be non-stop barking!!! Which > there often is, by the > > way. The hilly terrain causes barking to > recirculate and echo adding to > the > > dilemma of noise definition. When one dog barks, > it adds to everyone > else's > > problem of controlling their dog's barking. > > Who of you all out there can honestly claim to > enjoy listening to a dog > > barking, especially someone else's dog? > Personally, I do not wish to > listen > > to even 6 minutes per hour of barking.... > > My own dogs rarely bark. > > Jackie Perkins > > Veterinary Behaviour Consulting > > GOOD DOG > > Australia > > > > > > > > > > > ===== CeAnn Lambert Indiana Coyote Rescue Center www.WolfPark.org/ICRC __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From: IN%"gooddog@dodo.com.au" "Geiger" 28-MAR-2004 18:05:47.39 To: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Suicide Very interesting question. I am not at all sure that beaching cetaceans is an example of suicide. Perhaps they are lost, confused, or sick. Jackie PErkins -----Original Message----- From: Michalchik@aol.com [mailto:Michalchik@aol.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:01 AM To: ceannicrc@yahoo.com; gooddog@dodo.com.au; applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Subject: Suicide Are there any animals that seem to intentionally commit suicide? Beaching cetaceans? Any other examples? From: IN%"gooddog@dodo.com.au" "Geiger" 28-MAR-2004 18:05:49.83 To: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Suicide Very interesting question. I am not at all sure that beaching cetaceans is an example of suicide. Perhaps they are lost, confused, or sick. Jackie PErkins -----Original Message----- From: Michalchik@aol.com [mailto:Michalchik@aol.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:01 AM To: ceannicrc@yahoo.com; gooddog@dodo.com.au; applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Subject: Suicide Are there any animals that seem to intentionally commit suicide? Beaching cetaceans? Any other examples? From: IN%"s4008889@student.uq.edu.au" 28-MAR-2004 19:33:32.58 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: what limit on barking? Quoting Geiger : True. Living is about compromising. However a yard full of coyotes is not usually found in most suburbs. The limits are imposed as a way of addressing complaints of barking...however, for most 6 minutes is a bit excessive. You can measure it by deviously using a sound activated tape recorder and an hourly chiming clock. The problem is really about responsible ownership, and most owners of barking dogs would be happy to do what they can to solve the problem. > No need to make this personal, but if you want to live like that, it is your > choice. But it is not a choice you can impose on unsuspecting neighbours. Do > the right thing by your fellow humans; Go live in the middle of a very large > acreage. > Jackie Perkins > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cecilia Lambert [mailto:ceannicrc@yahoo.com] > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:55 AM > To: Geiger; applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca > Subject: RE: what limit on barking? > > Jackie, > What would be your solution for me, if you moved in > next door? I have nineteen coyotes, two foxes and > four dogs. Should my animals and I have to try to > modify our behavior to accommidate you? How would > you suggest that we do that? > > I have a friend and her ears actually hurt when the > coyotes howl. She knows they are here and she knows > how important they are to me. I know her ears hurt. > We take breaks and leave the property for awhile. We > accomidate each other and the coyotes. That is the > way that life works. I don't like her yelling at her > dogs. It is a trade off. > CeAnn > --- Geiger wrote: > > Biting is normal too, should we accept being bitten > > by dogs we do not know > > out in public? > > Running children and eating horses do not impact on > > human health. > > The point is, we modify all manner of behaviours > > which are normal, in order > > for animals to live in harmony with humans. > > Barking has a negative impact on human health just > > as biting does. > > If we do not take the initiative and control these > > issues in favour of human > > health, these issues will be taken out of our hands, > > and the legislations > > imposed by governments may be idiotic. > > Most local governments in my city have imposed a 6 > > minute per hour "quota" > > on barking, which does not seem to work very well. > > It is an arbitrary limit > > and is impossible to monitor. > > Let us take the initiative. > > Regards, > > Jackie Perkins. > > Australia > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: mosi2000 [mailto:mosi2000@libero.it] > > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:33 PM > > To: gooddog > > Subject: Re:what limit on barking? > > > > Barking is a normal behaviour for dogs so we have to > > accept it as we accept > > running in kids or eating in horses! The issue here > > is how dog's owners (as > > baby's owners!) are respectfull towards other > > people! It's not a matter > > related to dogs (6 minutes of barking etc.) but a > > matter related to humans! > > How, as a responsible owner, we are keen to train > > and educate our dogs to > > live in harmony in a complex society? > > Good luck > > Simo - Italy > > > > > > Dog's owner > > ---------- Initial Header ----------- > > > > >From : "Geiger" gooddog@dodo.com.au > > To : "Robert Holmes" > > > rholmes@bigpond.net.au,Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca > > Cc : > > Date : Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:09:59 +1000 > > Subject : what limit on barking? > > > > > This is a tough issue! How long should a dog be > > permitted to bark before > > it > > > is considered a nuisance? You may be tempted to > > say that it varies for > > each > > > > > dog, but the important issue here in my view is > > how much can people > > tolerate > > > before it effects their health? A barking dog > > reaches into the 90 dbs, > > which > > > can cause industrial deafness and is incompatible > > with human health and > > > happiness. > > > The noise generated by children is peanuts by > > comparison. Anyway, society > > > exists for humans and children primarily. > > > Some people are noise sensitive. Some people work > > shifts and expect to be > > > able to sleep during the day. Some people have > > mental illness and have a > > low > > > tolerance to noise stress, or any kind of stress. > > In my view these people > > > all need to take priority over a "dogs right to > > bark"... Does society > > exist > > > for the health of humans, or the pleasure of dogs? > > > Acoustics are weird too....one neighbour may find > > all the noise channels > > to > > > them, hence the so called one whingy neighbour. > > Noise travels uphill, for > > > example. I know of many examples where perhaps > > just one person in one > > > household is severely effected by a neighbouring > > barker. Eg a dog barking > > at > > > a child every time that child is in their bedroom, > > where the window is > > close > > > to the neighbouring dog's fence. > > > The current view is that dogs can bark for up to 6 > > minutes in any hour > > > during the day. What a can of worms that opens!!! > > It is impossible to > > define > > > noise in this manner. Noise does not start or end > > discretely. Also, does > > it > > > count as noise if one's ears are still ringing? > > What about echo? > > > Let us run with the 6 mins per hour for now. In my > > neighbourhood everyone > > > owns a dog, predominantly working breeds. There > > would easily be ten dogs > > > which any household can hear at any time. If each > > dog barked its quota > > > serially, there would be non-stop barking!!! Which > > there often is, by the > > > way. The hilly terrain causes barking to > > recirculate and echo adding to > > the > > > dilemma of noise definition. When one dog barks, > > it adds to everyone > > else's > > > problem of controlling their dog's barking. > > > Who of you all out there can honestly claim to > > enjoy listening to a dog > > > barking, especially someone else's dog? > > Personally, I do not wish to > > listen > > > to even 6 minutes per hour of barking.... > > > My own dogs rarely bark. > > > Jackie Perkins > > > Veterinary Behaviour Consulting > > > GOOD DOG > > > Australia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > CeAnn Lambert > Indiana Coyote Rescue Center > www.WolfPark.org/ICRC > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > > > From: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com" 28-MAR-2004 19:47:40.38 To: IN%"simon@gadbois.org", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Suicide In a message dated 3/28/2004 5:11:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,=20 simon@gadbois.org writes: Jacques Cousteau had a disturbingly poignant account (in his book "Les=20 Dauphins et la Libert=E9"; co-authored with Diol=E9) of newly captured=20 dolphins swimming fill speed in the concrete walls of enclosures, soon=20 after being transferred from the sea to tanks. Camus said that it made us humans, i.e., this ability to kill=20 ourselves. He also thought it was the ultimate existential paradox. In this light, you need self-awareness and a "theory of mind" as they=20 say these days... so cetaceans and primates (especially apes) would=20 have the potential for this kind of volitional behaviour. S. Gadbois The story you account is compelling and poignant. I suppose that=20 intentionality is very hard to determine especially in spontaneous and rare=20= behavior like=20 this. A more prosaic explanation of the dolphins behavior might be something= =20 like out of control panic, or an escape instinct activated to a pathological= =20 level. Still, I think all the mechanisms are plausible, just empirically ver= y=20 difficult to separate. From: IN%"simon@gadbois.org" "Simon Gadbois" 28-MAR-2004 20:09:56.24 To: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Suicide Oh I agree: After all, lemmings were "committing suicide" until Tamarin looked closer. This is an inherent issue with behaviours relating to self-awareness. --- Simon Gadbois > > The story you account is compelling and poignant. I suppose that > intentionality is very hard to determine especially in spontaneous and > rare behavior like this. A more prosaic explanation of the dolphins > behavior might be something like out of control panic, or an escape > instinct activated to a pathological level. Still, I think all the > mechanisms are plausible, just empirically very difficult to separate. From: IN%"oryctolagus@earthlink.net" "Heather" 28-MAR-2004 21:11:18.51 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Suicide When a pet house rabbit is left alone after it=92s bonded mate of many years dies, and the rabbit who remains then pines away and dies, is that suicide? It happens quite a lot. Even in the wild, rabbits do pair for life (Dibbs, NZ study). If so, then rabbits are self aware. =20 h.m.=20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Michalchik@aol.com [mailto:Michalchik@aol.com]=20 Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 6:47 PM To: simon@gadbois.org; applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Subject: Re: Suicide =20 In a message dated 3/28/2004 5:11:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, simon@gadbois.org writes: Jacques Cousteau had a disturbingly poignant account (in his book "Les=20 Dauphins et la Libert=E9"; co-authored with Diol=E9) of newly captured=20 dolphins swimming fill speed in the concrete walls of enclosures, soon=20 after being transferred from the sea to tanks. Camus said that it made us humans, i.e., this ability to kill=20 ourselves. He also thought it was the ultimate existential paradox. In this light, you need self-awareness and a "theory of mind" as they=20 say these days... so cetaceans and primates (especially apes) would=20 have the potential for this kind of volitional behaviour. S. Gadbois The story you account is compelling and poignant. I suppose that intentionality is very hard to determine especially in spontaneous and rare behavior like this. A more prosaic explanation of the dolphins behavior might be something like out of control panic, or an escape instinct activated to a pathological level. Still, I think all the mechanisms are plausible, just empirically very difficult to separate. From: IN%"Michalchik@aol.com" 28-MAR-2004 22:25:44.15 To: IN%"oryctolagus@earthlink.net", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Suicide In a message dated 3/28/2004 7:13:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,=20 oryctolagus@earthlink.net writes: When a pet house rabbit is left alone after it=E2=80=99s bonded mate of many= years=20 dies, and the rabbit who remains then pines away and dies, is that suicide?=20= It=20 happens quite a lot. Even in the wild, rabbits do pair for life (Dibbs, N= Z=20 study). If so, then rabbits are self aware. =20 h.m.=20 I tend not to think so because "pining away" occurs in depressed humans who=20 are not explicitly suicidal. Still, I feel sorry for your grieving bunnies. Which raises an interesting question. What is the adaptive value of mourning= =20 in an animal like a rabbit? It is postulated that the adaptive value grievin= g=20 (or depression) in humans has 2 reasons related generally to the sense of lo= ss=20 or misfortune. 1) To punish misbehavior that results in the loss. 2) To generally lower level of activity in risky situations where=20 exploratory behavior is more likely to result in death. In the case of loss of a mate, does either reason apply to rabbits? Is it to= =20 suppress searching excessively for a missing mate or leaving the den when a=20 threat like communicable disease or predator is around? I would think fear a= nd=20 flight would generally be superior responses in that case. Does it make a=20 difference if the rabbit sees, smells, etc ... the dead mate or the death of= the=20 mate? Do rabbits need to have the mystery of their missing mate cleared up t= o=20 experience closure? From: IN%"nrichard@psy.mq.edu.au" 30-MAR-2004 00:36:07.12 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Rodent vocalisations Hi all. After many years of observing the posts to this list from the sideline, I'm now hoping some of you can help me find contacts and/or references relevant to the PhD research I've just started on. I'm looking at social vocalisations (including ultrasonic vocalisations) in various species of native Australian rats. I believe that there is literature somewhere about such vocalisations in lab rats but am having trouble tracking it down....??? I would also be very grateful if anyone can point me in the direction of any similar research done with other non-captive and/or non-domesticated rodent species. It would be fantastic, for example, if someone out there had done research with rodents along the lines of the Seyfarth and Cheney work on primate vocalisations (although this would steal my thunder somewhat!)........ any suggestions?? Many thanks Nansi Richards Macquarie University Sydney, Australia. _________________________________________________________________ Surf the net and talk on the phone with Xtra JetStream @ http://xtra.co.nz/jetstream From: IN%"caroline.docking@adas.co.uk" "Caroline Docking" 30-MAR-2004 04:06:59.51 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Ethology Posting" CC: Subj: Selection programs Does anyone out there know of a computer program which can be used to select animals in order to obtain balanced experimental groups? Ideally we'd be looking for a program which can cope with a number of parameters eg. weight, gender, litter etc.. so that we can balance for more than one variable. We currently have a fairly basic program but it can only select on the basis of one variable and if you enter 100 animals but only need 80 it will use the first 80 entered and ignore the rest so that we usually end up having to redo the selection by hand. Caroline Docking ADAS Pig Research at Terrington Tel: 01553 828621 Fax: 01553 827229 This message has been checked for known viruses. ADAS Postmaster Postmaster@adas.co.uk ******************************************************************************* The information transmitted is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by parties other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Opinions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of ADAS are neither given nor endorsed by it. For more information on ADAS, visit our website at http://www.adas.co.uk. ******************************************************************************* From: IN%"simon@gadbois.org" "Simon Gadbois" 30-MAR-2004 09:14:55.89 To: IN%"nrichard@psy.mq.edu.au" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Rodent vocalisations You could contact Dr. Richard Brown (richard.brown@dal.ca) here at Dalhousie or his Ph.D. student (just defended yesterday), Paul Mendella (pmende779@rogers.com). They were looking at anxiety, CCK and UV's. I believe other sutdents in Brown's lab have published in this area (e.g., Farhad Dastur). --- Simon Gadbois, Ph.D. Psychology/Neuroscience Dalhousie University Halifax, NS Canada, B3H 4J1 902-494-8848 www.gadbois.org/academic Ethology & behavioural endocrinology On 30-Mar-04, at 2:35 AM, nansi richards wrote: > Hi all. > > After many years of observing the posts to this list from the > sideline, I'm now hoping some of you can help me find contacts and/or > references relevant to the PhD research I've just started on. > > I'm looking at social vocalisations (including ultrasonic > vocalisations) in various species of native Australian rats. I > believe that there is literature somewhere about such vocalisations in > lab rats but am having trouble tracking it down....??? > > I would also be very grateful if anyone can point me in the direction > of any similar research done with other non-captive and/or > non-domesticated rodent species. It would be fantastic, for example, > if someone out there had done research with rodents along the lines of > the Seyfarth and Cheney work on primate vocalisations (although this > would steal my thunder somewhat!)........ any suggestions?? > > Many thanks > > Nansi Richards > Macquarie University > Sydney, Australia. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Surf the net and talk on the phone with Xtra JetStream @ > http://xtra.co.nz/jetstream > From: IN%"simon@gadbois.org" "Simon Gadbois" 30-MAR-2004 09:16:37.98 To: IN%"nrichard@psy.mq.edu.au" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Rodent vocalisations Forgot: look at references by Blass, Hofer, Shair, Blumberg: they seem to be the "kings" of UV in lab rats. SG --- Simon Gadbois, Ph.D. Psychology/Neuroscience Dalhousie University Halifax, NS Canada, B3H 4J1 902-494-8848 www.gadbois.org/academic Ethology & behavioural endocrinology On 30-Mar-04, at 2:35 AM, nansi richards wrote: > Hi all. > > After many years of observing the posts to this list from the > sideline, I'm now hoping some of you can help me find contacts and/or > references relevant to the PhD research I've just started on. > > I'm looking at social vocalisations (including ultrasonic > vocalisations) in various species of native Australian rats. I > believe that there is literature somewhere about such vocalisations in > lab rats but am having trouble tracking it down....??? > > I would also be very grateful if anyone can point me in the direction > of any similar research done with other non-captive and/or > non-domesticated rodent species. It would be fantastic, for example, > if someone out there had done research with rodents along the lines of > the Seyfarth and Cheney work on primate vocalisations (although this > would steal my thunder somewhat!)........ any suggestions?? > > Many thanks > > Nansi Richards > Macquarie University > Sydney, Australia. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Surf the net and talk on the phone with Xtra JetStream @ > http://xtra.co.nz/jetstream > From: IN%"siegford@msu.edu" "Janice M Siegford" 30-MAR-2004 09:37:34.18 To: IN%"nrichard@psy.mq.edu.au" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Rodent vocalisations Hi Nansi, Below is a list of some references (mostly pertaining to Mongolian gerbils) that may be helpful to you in your quest for information about ultrasonic communication in rodents. I gathered this from a pubmed search using gerbil and vocalization. Cheers, Janice 1: Motomura N, Shimizu K, Shimizu M, Aoki-Komori S, Taniguchi K, Serizawa I, Saito TR. A comparative study of isolation-induced ultrasonic vocalization in rodent pups. Exp Anim. 2002 Apr;51(2):187-90. PMID: 12012730 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 2: Holman SD, Janus C. Laterally asymmetrical cell number in a sexually dimorphic nucleus in the gerbil hypothalamus is correlated with vocal emission rates. Behav Neurosci. 1998 Aug;112(4):979-90. PMID: 9733204 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 3: Holman SD, Seale WT, Hutchison JB. Ultrasonic vocalizations in immature gerbils: emission rate and structural changes after neonatal exposure to androgen. Physiol Behav. 1995 Mar;57(3):451-60. PMID: 7753881 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 4: Blumberg MS. Rodent ultrasonic short calls: locomotion, biomechanics, and communication. J Comp Psychol. 1992 Dec;106(4):360-5. Review. PMID: 1451418 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 5: Holman SD, Hutchison RE, Hutchison JB. Microimplants of estradiol in the sexually dimorphic area of the hypothalamus activate ultrasonic vocal behavior in male Mongolian gerbils. Horm Behav. 1991 Dec;25(4):531-48. PMID: 1813379 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 6: Holman SD, Seale WT. Ontogeny of sexually dimorphic ultrasonic vocalizations in Mongolian gerbils. Dev Psychobiol. 1991 Mar;24(2):103-15. PMID: 2044847 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] nansi richards writes: > Hi all. > > After many years of observing the posts to this list from the sideline, > I'm now hoping some of you can help me find contacts and/or references > relevant to the PhD research I've just started on. > > I'm looking at social vocalisations (including ultrasonic vocalisations) > in various species of native Australian rats. I believe that there is > literature somewhere about such vocalisations in lab rats but am having > trouble tracking it down....??? > > I would also be very grateful if anyone can point me in the direction of > any similar research done with other non-captive and/or non-domesticated > rodent species. It would be fantastic, for example, if someone out there > had done research with rodents along the lines of the Seyfarth and Cheney > work on primate vocalisations (although this would steal my thunder > somewhat!)........ any suggestions?? > > Many thanks > > Nansi Richards > Macquarie University > Sydney, Australia. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Surf the net and talk on the phone with Xtra JetStream @ > http://xtra.co.nz/jetstream > > Janice Siegford, PhD Animal Behavior and Welfare Group 1287C Anthony Hall Department of Animal Science Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824 517-432-8212 office 517-432-1396 lab 517-353-1699 fax From: IN%"gooddog@dodo.com.au" "Geiger" 31-MAR-2004 02:06:54.71 To: IN%"simon@gadbois.org" "'Simon Gadbois'", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: yawning dogs Hi Simon. Have you had a chance to view the CD of the yawning dogs which I sent you? Regards, Jackie Perkins From: IN%"olsson@ibmc.up.pt" "Anna Olsson" 31-MAR-2004 02:23:15.24 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied ethology" CC: Subj: UNESCO declaration on animal rights Dear all, While browsing through information on the internet, I've come across the UNESCO Universal declaration on animal rights several times. According to a frequently repeated text "The Universal Declaration of Animal Rights was solemnly proclaimed in Paris on 15 October 1978 at the UNESCO headquarters. The text, revised by the International League of Animal Rights in 1989, was submitted to the UNESCO Director General in 1990 and made public that same year." The text (you can find it here http://league-animal-rights.org/en-duda.html ) is ambigous and by focusing on wild animals and avoiding talking about those animals humans in almost all cultures routinely kill for food it avoids creating real conflicts with culturally accepted practice. Still, the idea of a UN organ declaring rights to animals baffles me as a very radical action. I would be very interested in knowing a bit more about the events that led to this declaration and whether it has had any impact at all. Best wishes Anna Olsson Anna Olsson Postdoctoral research fellow Animal Behaviour & Welfare - Bioethics Institute for Molecular and Cell Biology Rua Campo Alegre 823 4150-180 Porto, Portugal Phone +351 22 607 4900 Faz +351 22 609 9157 From: IN%"gooddog@dodo.com.au" "Geiger" 31-MAR-2004 02:26:37.21 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: FW: request to attach video footage to applied ethology website -----Original Message----- From: Geiger [mailto:gooddog@dodo.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 6:13 PM To: 'applied-ethology-request@sask.usask.ca'; 'Robert Holmes' Subject: request to attach video footage to applied ethology website Dear webmaster, Is it possible to attach my video footage of dogs yawning for food, to the Applied Ethology website? That way it can be scrutinized by all who are interested. It was believed to be impossible, according to Seligman's theory of psychological preparedness of 1971. I shall be submitting a paper on the subject to a journal in due course. It would be great to have a universally accessible place to direct readers to from the paper. Please let me know, Very best regards, Jackie Perkins Veterinary Behaviour Consulting Australia