From: IN%"eoprice@ucdavis.edu" "Edward O. Price" 30-APR-1997 12:48:27.98 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology-error" CC: Subj: RE: Ed Price's email Per: I can help. eoprice@ucdavis.edu Ed ---------- >From: applied-ethology-error >To: applied-ethology >Subject: Ed Price's email >Date: Wednesday, April 30, 1997 2:51PM > >Is there anyone around who has a working email address to Ed Price? I would >be grateful if you would help me with this. > >Cheers, > >Per Jensen > >*********************************************************** >PER JENSEN, Professor of Ethology >Swedish University of Agricultural Scinces >Department of Animal Environment and Health >Section of Ethology >POB 234, SE-532 23 SKARA, Sweden >Tel +46 511 67219 >Fax +46 511 67204 >E-mail Per.Jensen@hmh.slu.se >*********************************************************** From: IN%"serpell@vet.upenn.edu" 1-MAY-1997 07:34:36.37 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Circling behavior Can anyone out there respond helpfully to the attached message? Please reply directly to Dr. Simpson. >Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 02:14:10 -0700 >From: "Barbara S. Simpson" >Organization: Simpson Family >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: "Serpell, James" >Subject: Circling behavior > >Dear Dr. Serpell; > > I hesitate to impose, but I would very much appreciate your >advice and opinion on a matter relating to canine behavior. I have been >asked to comment about the functional significance of the circling >behavior some dogs exhibit before eliminating or lying down. I have read >various antecdotal speculations about this (evaluating the site, >depositing olfactory marks from footpads, "nesting" , etc) but have found >no information on a recent search. > As far as you know, has this been carefully described? named? >investigated? Are there breed or sex predispositions for the behavior? > I would greatly appreciate your comments. Thank you for your >consideration. > Sincerely, > Barbara Simpson > > > > >Barbara S. Simpson, PhD, DVM, DACVB >The Veterinary Behavior Clinic >6045 U.S. Hwy 1 North >Southern Pines, NC 28387 >PH 910-692-2801 >FX 910-692-1860 >E bsimpson@pinehurst.net Thanks. James Serpell ___________________________________________________________________ School of Veterinary Medicine, Dept. of Clinical Studies, University of Pennsylvania, 3900 Delancey Street, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6010. USA. Tel: (215) 898-1004 Fax: (215) 573-6050 serpell@vet.upenn.edu From: IN%"BEMBERTON@eureka.edu" "BRYAN EMBERTON" 1-MAY-1997 07:58:58.88 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: This is just a question that I am curious about. Of the current members to applied-ethology, are any of you members of PETA, Greenpeace, Earth Island, or any other globally recognized animal rights group. If so could you please send me your name and the organization that you belong to. Thank you very much Bryan Emberton Eureka College (Ronald Reagan's alma mater) Eureka, Il From: IN%"mplonsky@uwsp.edu" "Plonsky, Mark" 1-MAY-1997 09:03:35.70 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Circling behavior On Thursday, May 01, 1997, serpell@vet.upenn.edu wrote: > Can anyone out there respond helpfully to the attached message [about circling behavior in canines]? Please > reply directly to Dr. Simpson. Please reply to the list as well since I am sure there are a number of us that are interested in this topic. Thanx in advance. Take care, > Mark Plonsky, Ph.D. 715-346-3961 wk > Psychology Dept. 715-346-2778 fx > University of Wisconsin 715-344-0023 hm > Stevens Point, WI 54481 mplonsky@uwsp.edu > http://www.uwsp.edu/acad/psych/mphome.htm - Home Page > http://www.uwsp.edu/acad/psych/dog/dog.htm - Dog Training Site From: IN%"sarwarm@paknet1.ptc.pk" 5-MAY-1997 08:18:25.11 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: PJLP Dear subscriber Pakistan Journal of Livestock and Poultry is dedicated to the dissemination of fundamental knowledge in all areas of Animal Science. This journal is published quarterly under the supervision of Agri-Livestock Bureau, Pakistan. The bureau exists for the advancement of education and research in animal sciences and allied disciplines. Publishes original scientific articles, reviews, short communications, Clinical Articles, letters to the Editor, Book Reviews. Accepts papers devoted to problems of animal biology and pathology; production and breeding; nutrition and feeding; veterinary medicine and hygiene; health monitoring; use of the animals as biological models in experimental medicine, pharmacology, physiology, toxicology, immunology, genetics, etc.; alternatives to animal experiments; education and training and legislation. Accepts advertisements from companies, institutions and enterprises, presenting an interest for the specialists working in the field of laboratory animal sciences and technology. It could be also information on new books, conferences, meetings etc. Yours truly (Muhammad Sarwar) Department of Veterinary Pathology University of Agriculture, Faisalabad-38040, Pakistan. NOTE: YOU CAN SEND YOUR ARTICLES THROUGH E-MAIL TO: SARWARM@PAKNET1.PTC.PK INSTRUCTIONS TO AUTHORS PREPARATION OF MANUSCRIPTS Before preparing a manuscript the author(s) should follow the following guidelines: 1. Manuscript should be written in clear, concise and grammatical English, and be submitted in triplicate. 2. Full papers are limited to 15 pages in length including tables, figures and abstract. Short communications are limited to 6 pages only. 3. The arrangement of the manuscript should be as follows: Title: Author's name(s); Abstract; Introduction, materials and Methods; Results and Discussion and References. 4. References cited in the text should arranged alphabaticaloly according to author's name (2) year of publication (3) title of the paper (4) name of the journal (or book) in abbreviation (5) volume and pages of the Journal or book Examples Sarwar, M., M.N. Saeed and G. Muhammad, 1994........................ Crop Sci., 24: 12-15. 5. Figures should be drawn in black ink and must be legibly labelled. Try to accommodate at least 4 figures on one A-4 size paper. 6. Only standard abbreviation should be used both in the text and references. Subscription Information One volume per year, each consisting of 4 issues. Price per volume Rs. 200/- (Local and US$ 25 (International) Correspondence Address: Agriculture Livestock Bureau Pakistan 334-B, Peoples Colony, Faisalabad E-mail: sarwarm@paknet1.ptc.pk From: IN%"Frank.Odberg@rug.ac.be" "Frank Odberg" 5-MAY-1997 12:19:40.61 To: IN%"bsimpson@pinehurst.net" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Circling behavior Horses circle as well before lying down, often sniffing and pawing at the site. AS FAR AS I KNOW supposed functions of that behaviour have never been supported by any experimental work neither by extensive systematic observation. Prof.Dr. Frank O. Odberg University of Ghent Dpt. of Animal Nutrition, Genetics, Production and Ethology Heidestraat 19 B-9820 Merelbeke Belgium tel: +32-(0)9-2521941 fax: 5304 On Thu, 1 May 1997, James Serpell wrote: > Can anyone out there respond helpfully to the attached message? Please > reply directly to Dr. Simpson. > > >Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 02:14:10 -0700 > >From: "Barbara S. Simpson" > >Organization: Simpson Family > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >To: "Serpell, James" > >Subject: Circling behavior > > > >Dear Dr. Serpell; > > > > I hesitate to impose, but I would very much appreciate your > >advice and opinion on a matter relating to canine behavior. I have been > >asked to comment about the functional significance of the circling > >behavior some dogs exhibit before eliminating or lying down. I have read > >various antecdotal speculations about this (evaluating the site, > >depositing olfactory marks from footpads, "nesting" , etc) but have found > >no information on a recent search. > > As far as you know, has this been carefully described? named? > >investigated? Are there breed or sex predispositions for the behavior? > > I would greatly appreciate your comments. Thank you for your > >consideration. > > Sincerely, > > Barbara Simpson > > > > > > > > > >Barbara S. Simpson, PhD, DVM, DACVB > >The Veterinary Behavior Clinic > >6045 U.S. Hwy 1 North > >Southern Pines, NC 28387 > >PH 910-692-2801 > >FX 910-692-1860 > >E bsimpson@pinehurst.net > > > Thanks. > > James Serpell > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > School of Veterinary Medicine, > Dept. of Clinical Studies, > University of Pennsylvania, > 3900 Delancey Street, > Philadelphia, PA 19104-6010. > USA. > > Tel: (215) 898-1004 > Fax: (215) 573-6050 > serpell@vet.upenn.edu > > > From: IN%"lboyle@DAIRY.TEAGASC.IE" "LAURA BOYLE" 6-MAY-1997 05:06:43.33 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: June 6th - visit to Canada I am an Irish postgraduate student in the first year of my PhD which is concerned with sow behaviour and welfare. I am going to Canada in June for the Farm Animal Welfare conference at the Dairy and Swine Research and Development Centre in Lennoxville. I intend spending at least another week in Canada to visit other research centres that are involved in pig behaviour and welfare research. Unfortunately, time is ticking and I don't have much time to arrange an itinery for the trip so I would really appreciate hearing from anyone involved in this type of research in Canada. Perhaps someone could recommend some places worth visiting and provide the names and addresses of people I could contact? Looking forward to your responses! Laura Boyle --------------------------------------------------------------------- Dept. Pig Husbandry, Moorepark Research Centre, Fermoy, Co. Cork, IRELAND. Telephone : 353-25-31422 Fax :353-25-31728 email : Lboyle@dairy.teagasc.ie --------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IN%"robin@coape.win-uk.net" "Robin E Walker" 7-MAY-1997 02:38:45.37 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Disappearance of Ethologists From Thucydides, the Peloponnesian War, Book II, 47-52 (Penguin Edition trans. Rex Warner, pp 152-156 50 Words indeed fail one when on tries to give a general picture of this disease; and as for the sufferings of individuals, they seemed almost beyond the capacity of human nature to endure. Here in particular is a point where this plague showed itself to be something quite different from ordinary diseases: though there were many dead bodies lying about unburied, the birds and animals that eat human flesh either did not come near them or, if they did taste the flesh,died of it afterwards. Evidence for this may be found in the fact that there was a complete disappearance of all birds birds of prey; they were not to be seen either round the bodies or anywhere else. But dogs being domestic animals, provided the best opportunity of observing this effect of the plague. Something similar seems to have happened to this list! Robin From: IN%"bhayes@dsu.deltast.edu" "William A. Hayes" 7-MAY-1997 03:59:25.91 To: IN%"robin@coape.win-uk.net" "Robin E Walker" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Disappearance of Ethologists I think we are all still alive... just under the gun of ending semesters. I've noticed that several lists I am on seem to quiet down during these periods. Hopefully, we'll get back to our roudy, opinionated, talkative, friendly, sharing selves, soon. I know my dozen students who have been listmembers this semester have been busy writing papers this past week :) Some teachers are real slave-drivers! Best wishes, Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- William A. Hayes, II, Ph.D. | If you follow your bliss, you put yourself Professor of Biology | on a kind of a track that has been there P.O.Box 3234 | the whole while, waiting for you, and the Delta State University | life you ought to be living is the one you Cleveland, MS 38733 | are living. --- Joseph Campbell ph: 601-846-4247 \ _____ ____ fax: 601-846-4016 | \_____ _____/ \ email: bhayes@dsu.deltast.edu | __ \^^/ __ | | ////)\(0= =0)/(\\\\ // ^\| / ^^ \ |/^ \\ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Website - http://okra.deltast.edu/~bhayes/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IN%"cbrandau@knox.mindspring.com" "Claire Brandau" 7-MAY-1997 08:15:57.90 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Disappearance of Ethologists At 04:58 AM 5/7/97 -0500, you wrote: >I think we are all still alive... just under the gun of ending semesters. >I've noticed that several lists I am on seem to quiet down during these >periods. Hopefully, we'll get back to our roudy, opinionated, talkative, >friendly, sharing selves, soon. Still alive and lurking....just studying for Finals. Claire M. Brandau lowly undergrad in search of a master's program From: IN%"roberts@EM.AGR.CA" "Suzanne Robert" 7-MAY-1997 08:54:42.72 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: address Hi everybody, I am looking for the e-mail address of Alistair Lawrence. Could someone give me the information ? Thanks in advance Suzanne Robert Dairy and Swine research and Development Centre Lennoxville, Quebec roberts@em.agr.ca From: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" 7-MAY-1997 10:56:22.50 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Something about animal behaviour!!!!!!! Yep. Still quietly ticking over..... I don't want to appear too rowdy or opinionated or anything. I just read an article that raised a few questions in my mind and I wondered if anyone had any better ideas about what is going on here. The paper concerned was: Sato, S. & Yoshikawa, C. (1996) Estimation of cognition pattern of cattle by the visual attention to photograph and movie images. Anim. Sci. Technol. (Jpn.) 67 (1): 36-42. They presented cows with images of familiar and unfamiliar animals and humans somewhat as Kendrick has done with sheep. Instead of recording the activity of cells in the temporal cortex, as Kendrick did, they used a small TV camera attached to the cow's head to try to measure whether she was visually attending to (sorry, I mean "looking at":-) the stimulus. The results were similar to Kendrick's insofar as the cows apparently spent more time pointing their heads (and therefore the camera) at familiar images than unfamiliar ones (the cells of Kendrick's sheep fired at a higher rate when they saw familiar individuals). But is this a valid comparison? The particular cells of sheep which fire to certain images are parts of a well travelled neural pathway. Yet this process of visual neural learning presumably requires a certain amount of exposure to the stimulus (ie looking at it) before it achieves "familiar" status. Sato's cows appear to be inhibiting this process of recognition learning, rather than promoting it. Wouldn't one expect them to look more at unfamiliar images than familiar ones? Isn't this more or less required if neural recognition of an initially unfamiliar individual is ever going to occur? Surely the whole point of having a special brain circuit to recognise someone is that you can do it at a single glance, categorise them as familiar, unthreatening or whatever, and then turn attention to something else unfamiliar which you need to evaluate. So I'm wondering if something else is going on and maybe the cows are not, in fact, looking preferentially at the familiar images. There might be a plausible alternative to Sato & Yoshikawa's interpretation of the camera data. They defined visual attention as the time during which the camera was pointed directly enough at the image that it was visible on the monitor. They don't give the field of view of the camera, but obviously it is going to be a lot narrower than the 300 plus degrees visible to the cow. Of course, the camera only tells you which way the animal's head is facing, not which way its eyeballs are swivelling. If you observed the eye movement instead you would have to contend with the fact that cattle have a broad foveal streak in the horizontal plane on the retina rather than a small round fovea as humans have. Therefore they might conceivably be able to resolve images with good detail (by cow standards) which fall far from the centre of the visual field. (after all why do they have such a broad area of closely packed cells if it didn't help their ancestors to survive?) In other words perhaps they could see an object well without gazing directly at it. The cow's visual experience of the world could be quite different from ours in this respect. We know that direct gaze can be threatening among cattle. They also seem to get uncomfortable when humans stare directly at them. So the threatening gaze thing appears to be generalized to other species, and who knows, perhaps to any unfamiliar object. Maybe S & Y's results are simply saying that cows attend visually to unfamiliar images while avoiding direct gaze and they do not need to avoid direct gaze when images are familiar and their threat potential is known. Therefore they can get them within the smaller binocular field and get the slight advantage of better depth perception while resting their occulomotor muscles. If true then the results can't really tell us whether the cow was attending to the image or not at any given instant. But the method might be used to assess relative threat potential of an object or event from the cow's perspective and thus be a useful technique for evaluating stress or fear, perhaps. Anyone have any comments? Did I think this out all wrong, or is this fair criticism of the study? Have I committed a faux pas or something by using this forum to put a different spin on someone else's research? Jon ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Watts (___) ) ) University of Saskatchewan |o o|___________/ ( Dept of Herd Medicine O \#/ | ) and Theriogenology |bser| | Statistical | ( Western College of Vet. Med. |vati| | analysis | ) 52 Campus Drive |ons.| \___________/| *& Saskatoon ------ || || %$#@ S7N 1B4 / \ || || ^*@*~ Canada &^%%#$@ wattsjon@duke.usask.ca "The Holy Cow" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IN%"Emily.Patterson-Kane@vuw.ac.nz" 7-MAY-1997 22:26:07.88 To: IN%"APPLIED-ETHOLOGY@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: contacts hi I am going to EMEABIII in July, this is enabling me to spend a little time in Dublin and Edinburgh. I would like to drop in on any animal behaviour researchers in this area, but am having trouble discovering what universities/institutes are around... Could any-one who is at or knows of, animal behaviour or welfare researchers in this area please drop me a line thanks emily.patterson-kane.ac.nz From: IN%"Linda.Keeling@hmh.slu.se" "Linda Keeling" 8-MAY-1997 06:33:10.09 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Job Vacancy I have been asked to circulate the following notice. Linda Keeling ISAE Secretary Animal Behaviourist/Ethologist Department of Population Medicine A three-year contractually-limited faculty position at the level of Assistant Professor is available on or before September 1, 1997. The incumbent shall be reviewed annually and the position may be renewed with satisfactory performance and program approval. Qualifications The successful applicant should have training to the PhD level in ethology with knowledge of, and/or experience with, epidemiological research methods, or, in the absence of this, training to the doctoral level in epidemiology with knowledge of, and/or experience with, ethology and its applications in veterinary medicine. A DVM degree, or equivalent, is preferred. Strong communication skills and the ability to form and work with interdisciplinary teams are essential. Duties The major teaching effort will focus on undergraduate DVM students involving an undergraduate course offering and a final year rotation of students to provide experience and training with the management of clinical cases (mainly, but not restricted to, companion animals). The research program will be scientifically rigorous and focus primarily on identifying risk factors for naturally-occurring behavioural problems in any domestic species, or in some instances on clinical trials of approaches to behaviour modification. The Department has a cadre of epidemiologists and food-animal specialists to collaborate with on these projects. Interdepartmental and intercollege research will also be encouraged and supported. The successful applicant will have the opportunity to contribute to graduate student education. Historically, MSc graduate students have majored in epidemiology with research applications in ethology. Doctoral programs in epidemiology with a research focus in ethology are available. Doctoral programs in ethology are available in collaboration with the Department of Animal and Poultry Science. Further, there is an opportunity to integrate with activities in the Centre for the Study of Animal Welfare (CSAW). The University of Guelph is committed to an Employment Equity Program which includes special measures to ensure diversity among its faculty and staff. We, therefore, particularly encourage applications from qualified aboriginal Canadians, persons with disabilities, members of visible minorities and women. In accordance with Canadian immigration requirements, priority will be given to Canadian citizens and permanent residents of Canada. The deadline for applications is July 15, 1997, or until position is filled. Please send a complete Curriculum Vitae and the contact information for three references to: S. Wayne Martin, Chair, Department of Population Medicine, Ontario Veterinary College, University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario, Canada N1G 2W1 Wayne Martin Chairman, Population Medicine FAX 519-763-8621 Tele 519-824-4120 Ext 4746 From: IN%"ND116@mercury.anglia.ac.uk" "Nicola Djokic" 9-MAY-1997 09:46:08.82 To: IN%"Applied-Ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: I am an undergraduate student at Anglia Polytechnic University in Cambridge, England studying "Animal Behaviour and Ecology & Conservation". I am interested in subscribing to the Applied-Ethology E-mail line and would be grateful to receive any information From: IN%"joseph.stookey@usask.ca" 9-MAY-1997 10:49:54.54 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: IN%"joseph.stookey@sask.usask.ca" Subj: ASAS 1997 Annual Meeting Dr. Stookey, Per our conversation a few weeks ago, can you post the following message to the Applied Ethology Listserve? I would appreciate your assistance on this matter. Thanks! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Get in tune with the 21st century at ASAS =9197 Nashville! We invite you to attend the 89th Annual Meeting of the American Society of Animal Science, July 29 - August 1, 1997 at the Nashville Convention Center. More than 2000 scientists from around the world will be in attendance for the 600+ scientific sessions, nearly 30 symposia, and exciting evening events. A symposia of interest to you includes: "The Use of Computers for Modeling, Recognizing and Recording Behavior" Wednesday, July 30, 1997, 1 - 4 pm Traditionally scientists have used computers to store and analyze data, but recent and future applications also include modeling behavior with computer animates, image analysis, recognizing, tracking and automatically recording behavior. The symposium will update scientists on the current technology and should stimulate scientists to consider the current and future potential of computers in behavioral research. Animats from the bottom up: Virtual ethology in the real world. J. M. Watts, Univ. of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada Computer-based investigations of the social and spacing behavior of confined animals. W. R. Stricklin and J. Z. Zhou, Univ. of Maryland, College Park; H. W. Gonyou, Prairie Swine Centre, Saskatoon, Canada A video database system for studying animal behavior. J. Morrow-Tesch and J.W. Dailey, USDA-ARS Livestock Behavior Research Unit; H. Jiang, Purdue Univ., W. Lafayette, IN Discussion: An educational potpourri on computers and software used in behavior research. A chance to interact with invited speakers and their computers. For complete program information or to receive registration materials, contact ASAS Headquarters or visit our web site. ASAS 1111 North Dunlap Avenue Savoy, Illinois 61874 Phone 217/356-3182 FAX 217/398-4119 E-mail: asas@assochq.org Web Site: http://www.asas.uiuc.edu Janet Brown Marketing Specialist PSA/ADSA/ASAS 1111 North Dunlap Avenue Savoy, IL 61874 phone 217/356-3182 fax 217/398-4119 PSA - http://www.psa.uiuc.edu ASAS - http://www.asas.uiuc.edu ADSA - http://www.adsa.uiuc.edu e-mail janetb@assochq.org From: IN%"Frank.Odberg@rug.ac.be" "Frank Odberg" 9-MAY-1997 12:44:21.81 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology" CC: Subj: Jezierski? I am trying to mail to Tadeusz Jezierski (Poland) with panighz@frodo.nhsk.org.pl but it bounces back. Does anybody know whether his code has changed? Thanks! Prof.Dr. Frank O. Odberg University of Ghent Dpt. of Animal Nutrition, Genetics, Production and Ethology Heidestraat 19 B-9820 Merelbeke Belgium tel: +32-(0)9-2521941 fax: 5304 From: IN%"rnewberry@wsu.edu" 12-MAY-1997 19:35:13.65 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Position notice Assistant Director, People-Pet Partnership The College of Veterinary Medicine at Washington State University is seeking an Assistant Director for People-Pet Partnership, a public service activity. This position involves all aspects of management for 4 volunteer programs: Pet Education Program, Companion Animal Program, Pet Loss Program and Palouse Area Therapeutic Horsemanship Center. Master's degree or equivalent, and management experience, are essential. The incumbent will have an understanding of human-animal relationships, animal learning theory and animal behavior; experience in animal-assisted activities/therapy, teaching, research, fund raising and computer use; and ability to manage a not-for-profit, volunteer organization. Position is a half time, 12-month, administrative/professional appointment. Start date is 08/01/97. Send letter of application, resume, and 3 letters of recommendation to Ms. Jeanne Burritt; College of Veterinary Medicine, Washington State University, PO Box 647010; Pullman WA 99164-7010, by 06/20/97. Salary commensurate with experience. WSU is an AA/EEO educator. From: IN%"schilder@neuretp.biol.ruu.nl" 13-MAY-1997 02:53:13.21 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Is socialization in dogs necessary? Dear All, From research (Scott, Fuller, Fox and others) is is well known that dog pup= pies=20 need a socialization to humans in order to prevent a development of fear to= wards=20 humans. It is also well established that the period of primary socializatio= n=20 runs from 3 until 12 weeks. Scott and Fuller also recognized that there are= =20 breed differences regarding the sensitivity to a bad socialization: terrier= type=20 dogs were less vulnerable than other types. Since then, experience has shown that dogs do not generalize from adult hum= ans=20 to children: dogs that have been socialized to adults but not to children s= how=20 (intense) fear towards childred later in life. Dogs even tend to discrimina= te=20 between children of different sizes: when socialized to 6-10 year old chil= dren=20 fear towards babies still may occur. Moreover, Scott and Fuller stated that= a=20 socialization deficiency is very hard to remedy. Later experiences by many = dog=20 people has confirmed that also. =20 Last week I discussed this with a few dog breeders, who do not socialize do= gs to=20 children (they breed dogs for police work!!). They assured me that their do= gs=20 did not even had seen children in the first months of life, let alone inter= acted=20 with them. Nevertheless, their dogs later in file approach children readil= y and =20 playfull when encountering them en do not show the expected fear and flight= =20 behaviour.=20 These breeders explained this by stating that they breed extremely stable d= ogs.=20 In this case the dogs were German Shepherds. They ascribe initial fear tow= ards=20 children in their dogs to a general genetic tendency to be fearful, rather= than=20 resulting from poor socialization. These fearful dogs are omitted from the= ir=20 breeding programs. Since in my experience dogs that were not socialized to children invariably= show=20 more or less intense fear when confronted with them, I was quite surprised = by=20 the complete lack of fear that these breeders reported.=20 Can anybody confirm these reports? Is socialization that unimportant in do= gs=20 with a stable nature? I can hardly believe this. dr Matthijs Schilder Ethology and socio-ecology University of Utrecht Padualaan 14 PO box 80.086, 3508 TB Utrecht The Netherlands From: IN%"M.Kiley-Worthington@exeter.ac.uk" "room 016 wsl" 13-MAY-1997 03:30:43.04 To: IN%"schilder@neuretp.biol.ruu.nl" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Is socialization in dogs necessary? In my experience as a behaviour consultant working with dogs, and other animals, more important than the individual experience of particular socialisation groups,( ie to children) is increasing familiarity with many different social experiences, and types of environmental change. Thus the dogs bred for police work had presumabley had considerable experience of different situations, and social interactions in order to familiarise them with what they might encounter later, and consequently are more able to cope with children etc. I would suggest there is relatively little genetic difference in this, but enormous effect of lifetime experiences. If one works on this assumption, it is much easier to ensure good socialisation etc as it makes the handler analyse their behaviour, rather than putting it down to genetic differences which they can do nothing about. M.Kiley-Worthington. Animal Behaviour Consultant. Dear All, >From research (Scott, Fuller, Fox and others) is is well known that dog pup= pies=20 need a socialization to humans in order to prevent a development of fear to= wards=20 humans. It is also well established that the period of primary socializatio= n=20 runs from 3 until 12 weeks. Scott and Fuller also recognized that there are= =20 breed differences regarding the sensitivity to a bad socialization: terrier= type=20 dogs were less vulnerable than other types. Since then, experience has shown that dogs do not generalize from adult hum= ans=20 to children: dogs that have been socialized to adults but not to children s= how=20 (intense) fear towards childred later in life. Dogs even tend to discrimina= te=20 between children of different sizes: when socialized to 6-10 year old chil= dren=20 fear towards babies still may occur. Moreover, Scott and Fuller stated that= a=20 socialization deficiency is very hard to remedy. Later experiences by many = dog=20 people has confirmed that also. =20 Last week I discussed this with a few dog breeders, who do not socialize do= gs to=20 children (they breed dogs for police work!!). They assured me that their do= gs=20 did not even had seen children in the first months of life, let alone inter= acted=20 with them. Nevertheless, their dogs later in file approach children readil= y and =20 playfull when encountering them en do not show the expected fear and flight= =20 behaviour.=20 These breeders explained this by stating that they breed extremely stable d= ogs.=20 In this case the dogs were German Shepherds. They ascribe initial fear tow= ards=20 children in their dogs to a general genetic tendency to be fearful, rather= than=20 resulting from poor socialization. These fearful dogs are omitted from the= ir=20 breeding programs. Since in my experience dogs that were not socialized to children invariably= show=20 more or less intense fear when confronted with them, I was quite surprised = by=20 the complete lack of fear that these breeders reported.=20 Can anybody confirm these reports? Is socialization that unimportant in do= gs=20 with a stable nature? I can hardly believe this. dr Matthijs Schilder Ethology and socio-ecology University of Utrecht Padualaan 14 PO box 80.086, 3508 TB Utrecht The Netherlands **************************************************************************** Dept. of Psychology Washington Singer Labs Room No: 016 University of Exeter Perry Road Exeter EX4 4QG, UK FAX +44 1392 264623 **************************************************************************** From: IN%"gfb1@email.psu.edu" "G. F. Barbato" 13-MAY-1997 07:26:56.76 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Is socialization in dogs necessary? At 10:51 AM 5/13/97 +0100, you wrote: >Dear All, [snip] >Can anybody confirm these reports? Is socialization that unimportant in dogs >with a stable nature? I can hardly believe this. > > >dr Matthijs Schilder >Ethology and socio-ecology >University of Utrecht >Padualaan 14 >PO box 80.086, 3508 TB Utrecht >The Netherlands while i'm not an expert on dogs...... one aspect of the domestication process was probably selection for approach (or at least lack of flight) to(from) humans [Belyaev's work in the 70's, followed up by Trut in the 80's]. while genetic variation exists for a wide range of behaviors, and can clearly be altered by experience/training ... there is also a range of genetic variation from those individuals/populations which may be completely maleable and others that are fairly rigid and unchangeable (which, i believe, was Scott and Fuller's point) it seems to me that this is the key argument... understanding the range of variation, rather than suggesting that the socialization of dogs is either completely open or closed (sensu Mayr). as to the question of whether one could artificially select a population that behaves predominantly in one fashion, i'm not surprised. in fact, we already did it approx. 15-20,000 years ago.... : ) cheers, guy G. F. Barbato Phone: (814)-865-4481 Graduate Program in Genetics FAX: (814)-865-5691 Dept. Poultry Science Lab: (814)-865-3189 Penn State University Email: gfb1@psu.edu University Park, PA 16802 http://ps235.cas.psu.edu/ From: IN%"jdehasse@arcadis.be" 13-MAY-1997 15:02:58.82 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"schilder@neuretp.biol.ruu.nl" CC: Subj: RE: Is socialization in dogs necessary? As behaviour is depending on genetics and experience, both will have their own effect. Inheritance is more or less 20%. Experience in the young age is very important because the brain is developping under the influence of sensorial information (a puppy raised in the dark will become blind). There are also environmental factors before birth, stressfull mothers producing more stressfull ofspring. I have put a lot of information in my homepage at http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/2913/puppy.htm. If a young dog as been raised in an enriched environment, its capacities to generalise will improve. If it has been habituated to several kind (and sexes) of adult people it may be able to generalise to adolescents, to infants, even to newborn. But I would not bet the child security on that. Dr Joel Dehasse (dvm) - Brussels - jdehasse@arcadis.be http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/2913/ From: IN%"billcamp@cdsnet.net" 13-MAY-1997 18:28:37.43 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: IN%"schilder@neuretp.biol.ruu.nl" Subj: socialization and kiddies >Can anybody confirm these reports? Is socialization that unimportant in dogs >with a stable nature? I can hardly believe this. > > >dr Matthijs Schilder >Ethology and socio-ecology >University of Utrecht >Padualaan 14 >PO box 80.086, 3508 TB Utrecht >The Netherlands After wrestling for more than 30 years with this problem, [as well as several large and small breeds from so-called genetically _satble_ lines of breeds who decided I didn't smell, or sound, or move, or look right to them] I have decided to agree with D.O. Hebb who, towards the end of his studies, said >... I have come to the conclusion that behavior is 100 percent genetically--- and 100 percent environmentally determined. Bill Campbell From: IN%"rushenj@EM.AGR.CA" "Jeff Rushen" 14-MAY-1997 08:04:02.54 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: C. L. Gilbert email address needed Hi everyone, I urgently need to contact C.L. Gilbert from Babraham Institute in Cambridge. Would anyone happen to have his email address (or anyone else's in that institute)?? Thanks, Jeff Rushen rushenj@em.agr.ca From: IN%"pkabai@ns.univet.hu" "Kabai Peter" 14-MAY-1997 10:31:28.98 To: IN%"rushenj@EM.AGR.CA" "Jeff Rushen" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: C. L. Gilbert email address needed Colin Gilbert: colin.gilbert@bbsrc.sc.uk I hope this is the guy you're looking for. Good luck, Peter Kabai On Wed, 14 May 1997, Jeff Rushen wrote: > Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 10:13:43 -0400 > From: Jeff Rushen > To: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca > Subject: C. L. Gilbert email address needed > > Hi everyone, > > I urgently need to contact C.L. Gilbert from Babraham Institute in > Cambridge. Would anyone happen to have his email address (or anyone > else's in that institute)?? > Thanks, > > Jeff Rushen > > rushenj@em.agr.ca From: IN%"rushenj@EM.AGR.CA" "Jeff Rushen" 14-MAY-1997 10:35:32.23 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Thanks- email address Many thanks to all who responded to my query about Colin Gilbert's email address. Jeff Rushen From: IN%"Frank.Odberg@rug.ac.be" "Frank Odberg" 14-MAY-1997 18:20:52.79 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology" CC: Subj: Jezierski? I managed to get in touch with Tadeusz Jezierski. No further investigations needed. Thank you! Prof.Dr. Frank O. Odberg University of Ghent Dpt. of Animal Nutrition, Genetics, Production and Ethology Heidestraat 19 B-9820 Merelbeke Belgium tel: +32-(0)9-2521941 fax: 5304 From: IN%"Frank.Odberg@rug.ac.be" "Frank Odberg" 14-MAY-1997 18:33:05.84 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology" CC: Subj: socialization and heridity The recent mention of % concerning nature/nurture interaction prompts me to send a short and quick reminder which I am sure will be redundant for most of the network participants but which may encourage some who are not familiar with the subject to dig into relevant textbooks: "Heritability" (expressed as %) is not "heredity". A h2 of 0.30 does not mean that in all individuals that particular trait is determined for 30% by heredity. It only tells something on the possibility for selection in a given population at a given moment (e.g. generation). It expresses to what extent genetic variability can explain phenotypic variability. That's all. A trait can be highly genetically determined but show a very low heritability coefficient (because of a low variability, due e.g. to inbreeding or any high selection pressure). Misuse of these concepts has led to unscientific statements in behavioural sciences in the past. I am not saying that heritability is useless for behavioural genetics, but it can be misleading when used to express the relative influence of genes and environment outside a selection process. Prof.Dr. Frank O. Odberg University of Ghent Dpt. of Animal Nutrition, Genetics, Production and Ethology Heidestraat 19 B-9820 Merelbeke Belgium tel: +32-(0)9-2521941 fax: 5304 From: IN%"tonygdog@iinet.net.au" "Tony Walker" 15-MAY-1997 01:50:19.36 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca'" CC: Subj: Canine urine and faeces marking Whilst I was attending a seminar the other day a question was raised by = a Veterinarian asking whether urine was more important than faeces = marking to canines. She claimed to have observed that dogs spent more = time investigating urine than faeces left by others. As no clear consensus was reached I wondered whether any research had = been carried out on the subject. Is the statement true and if so why? Many thanks, Tony Walker