From: IN%"jbk5@sh.dk" "Jorgen B. Kjaer" 15-MAY-1997 08:04:49.48 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'Applied Ethology'" CC: IN%"Frank.Odberg@rug.ac.be" "'Frank Odberg'" Subj: RE: socialization and heridity More to Heritability, To be more precise the heritability (h2) can be expressed in=20 a) the broad sense: Vg/Vp and=20 b) the narrow sense: Va/Vp where Vp (phenotypic variance)=3DVg (genetic variance)+Ve (environmental variance) and =20 Vg=3D Va (additive genetic variance)+Vd (dominance variance)+ Vi (interaction variance) + Ve. (Falconer, 1989: Intro. to quantitative genetics. Longman, New York, p 125..).=20 The most interesting h2 is the 'narrow' one which tells us what can be expected by selection. Misuse of h2 is most often done by using the 'broad' one, containing genetic effects which is not inherited in a predictible manner, ex.g. crossing effects, maternal effects etc.. But also the calculation of the 'narrow' h2 can be done in a way that bias the estimate upwards by maternal effects and epistasi, e.g. by using the 'dam-component' instead of the 'sire-component' (Falconer, 1989: p 163..).=20 Expression is most often as a value between 0 and 1, not as percent. Best regards J=F8rgen Kj=E6r Joergen B. Kjaer Research Scientist Danish Institute of Agricultural Sciences Research Centre Foulum P.O.Box 39 DK-8830 Tjele Denmark Phone +45 89991324 Fax +45 89991500 e-mail j.kjaer@sh.dk http://www.foulum.min.dk >---------- >From: Frank Odberg[SMTP:Frank.Odberg@rug.ac.be] >Sent: 14. maj 1997 11:59 >To: applied-ethology >Subject: socialization and heridity > >The recent mention of % concerning nature/nurture interaction >prompts me to send a short and quick reminder which I am sure will be >redundant for most of the network participants but which may encourage >some who are not familiar with the subject to dig into relevant = textbooks: >"Heritability" (expressed as %) is not "heredity". A h2 of 0.30 does = not >mean that in all individuals that particular trait is determined >for 30% by heredity. It only tells something on the possibility for >selection in a given population at a given moment (e.g. generation). It >expresses to what extent genetic variability can explain phenotypic >variability. That's all. A trait can be highly genetically determined = but >show a very low heritability coefficient (because of a low variability, >due e.g. to inbreeding or any high selection pressure).=20 >Misuse of these concepts has led to unscientific statements in = behavioural >sciences in the past.=20 >I am not saying that heritability is useless for behavioural genetics, = but >it can be misleading when used to express the relative influence of = genes >and environment outside a selection process.=20 > > > > > >Prof.Dr. Frank O. Odberg >University of Ghent >Dpt. of Animal Nutrition, Genetics, Production and Ethology >Heidestraat 19 >B-9820 Merelbeke >Belgium >tel: +32-(0)9-2521941 >fax: 5304 > > > > From: IN%"102234.510@CompuServe.COM" "Sabine Van den Weghe" 15-MAY-1997 09:27:05.92 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Ethology network" CC: Subj: welfare assessment Dear all, I would like to inform about some activities going on in Germany regarding animal welfare assessment. In 1995 KTBL has started a working group called 'concepts for the assessment of animal welfare in housing systems'. The idea was 1. to summarize and present basics of animal welfare and existing concepts regarding the assessment of animal welfare, 2. to find a certain structure for the many different kind of models with respect to its origin, its value and in praticular its implementation, 3. to present these results, 4. to promote the broad discussion between scientists, people from ministries, agricultural unions, animal welfare unions, advisory boards and people from the marketing. We want to create a scientific based discussion around animal welfare, housing conditions in farm animals and methods for the assessment among these people. In June KTBL is organizing a workshop on which the results of our working group will be presented and discussed. The workshop is called according to the above mentioned working group. The workshop will start with the presentation 'biological basis of animal behaviour' which is relevant for welfare assessment by Dr. D. Buchenauer. Second, Dr. U. Knierim will present scientific concepts which are relevant for welfare assessment. After that, the implementation of certain methods will be presented in two major fields: 1. the asseessment or justification of housing systems or elements before being applied in practice 2. the asseessment of animal welfare on farms Regarding point one, examples will be given through experts from Switzerland (Dr. H. Oester), Sweden (Prof. I. Ekesbo), the Netherlands (H. Hendriks) and Germany (Dr. H.-H. Bertram). Future concepts will be presented and discussed e.g. for Germany. Regarding point 2, methods of welfare assessment on farm level will be presented, one of which is developed in Germany, the so called Tiergerechtheitsindex TGI (Prof. R. Andersson), the other is a novel computer based model from the netherlands by IMAG (M.B.M. Bracke). All presented papers and in addition important results of the discussion will be published by KTBL - unfortunately in german language only - after the workshop in the end of 1997. Your comments about ongoing actvities in your country and perhaps interests in the results of our working group and workshop are appreciated. Greetings from Sabine Kuratorium fuer Technik und Bauwesen in der Landwirtschaft (KTBL) Sabine Van den Weghe Bartningstr. 49 D-64289 Darmstadt Tel.: +49-6151-7001-0 (Operator) Tel.: +49-6151-7001-149 FAX: +49-6151-7001-123 e-mail:102234.510@compuserve.com From: IN%"arion@dialatlanta.com" 15-MAY-1997 12:08:52.11 To: IN%"schilder@neuretp.biol.ruu.nl" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Is socialization in dogs necessary? schilder@neuretp.biol.ruu.nl wrote: > > Dear All, > > >From research (Scott, Fuller, Fox and others) is is well known that dog puppies > need a socialization to humans in order to prevent a development of fear towards > humans. It is also well established that the period of primary socialization > runs from 3 until 12 weeks. Scott and Fuller also recognized that there are > breed differences regarding the sensitivity to a bad socialization: terrier type > dogs were less vulnerable than other types. > Since then, experience has shown that dogs do not generalize from adult humans > to children: dogs that have been socialized to adults but not to children show > (intense) fear towards childred later in life. Dogs even tend to discriminate > between children of different sizes: when socialized to 6-10 year old children > fear towards babies still may occur. Moreover, Scott and Fuller stated that a > socialization deficiency is very hard to remedy. Later experiences by many dog > people has confirmed that also. > Last week I discussed this with a few dog breeders, who do not socialize dogs to > children (they breed dogs for police work!!). They assured me that their dogs > did not even had seen children in the first months of life, let alone interacted > with them. Nevertheless, their dogs later in file approach children readily and > playfull when encountering them en do not show the expected fear and flight > behaviour. > These breeders explained this by stating that they breed extremely stable dogs. > In this case the dogs were German Shepherds. They ascribe initial fear towards > children in their dogs to a general genetic tendency to be fearful, rather than > resulting from poor socialization. These fearful dogs are omitted from their > breeding programs. > > Since in my experience dogs that were not socialized to children invariably show > more or less intense fear when confronted with them, I was quite surprised by > the complete lack of fear that these breeders reported. > > Can anybody confirm these reports? Is socialization that unimportant in dogs > with a stable nature? I can hardly believe this. > > dr Matthijs Schilder > Ethology and socio-ecology > University of Utrecht > Padualaan 14 > PO box 80.086, 3508 TB Utrecht > The Netherlands Dear Dr. Schilder adn List Recipients, FUTURE POLICE DOG STYLE SOCIALIZATION Normally breeders who seriouly breed for police work (particularly if they are breeding for your KNPV test in the Netherlands) do an enormous and varied amount of work with young puppies to socialize and train them. Broad based confidence building by exposing them to different potential stressors is the usual policy. The environments at the police dog training clubs may not frequently have children, but there are many other sights and sounds that would tend to stress proof the pups, especially since they are being handled by relatively knowledgeable people. Even in countries other than your own, the socialization process for future police dogs is considered very important. So the rearing of these pups will tend to be more systematically and thoroughly planned than that of the ordinarty pet or show dog markets. Combining that with the traits of low general fearfulness and high trainability, curiosity, adaptabiltiy and high confidence with humans, one would tend to achieve a high percentage of dogs that would not "fear" children of any age or behavior. POSSIBLE BEHAVIORAL TOLERANCE FOR JUVENILES In a certain number of the flock guarding and dual purpose herding/tending dogs there would also seem to be a recognition of generalized mammalian juvenile characteristics which seem to trigger some level of care giving behavior (tolerance), or at least a lack of aggression or challenging behaviors. It is not uncommon for one of these large continental breeds to be introduced as an adult to a flock of sheep and see that the dog ignores the lambs but focuses on controlling the adults in the flock. This trait of tolerance often seems to extend to the young of other species as well. In many guardian dogs, the typical approach behavior towards their charges would be a playful one or at least a social and curious one. Although much of German Shepherd behavior would tend towards the typical hunting based herding behaviors, there is a balance against this predatory tendency in many of the dual purpose police style dogs and some continental cattle dog types, who have much socially based behavioral interspecific interactions at a milder level than the pure flock guardians. Although this is certainly not the case overall in the German Shepherd breed, I would expect this kind of balance in SOME of the successful working lines depending upon the particular balance of traits the breeder is trying to stabilize in the line. POLITICS & SOCIAL STIGMA There is another element here. No police dog breeder I know of would admit that their dogs would "fear" a child or anything else for that matter. "Fear" is to working dog breeders what "anthropomorphism" is to animal behavior researchers. You may find different terminology to ask your question. If you use the word equivalent to "aloof" or "careful" or "takes time to get used to" or some similarly non-judgemental terminology to elict a descriptive answer, you may find out more. In all of Europe and North America there is a great fuss about dangerous dogs and therefore all breeders of protection working breeds are generally very cautious about admitting any possibility of child aggression. The breeders work very hard to produce lines that are good with children. The politics of the situation are intense, and all the breeders are very fearful of anti-dog legislation and banning of protection sports, which would remove their forum for ascertaining via performance if their dogs really have the necessary complement of traits to allow for high performance without unbalanced or uncontrollable aggression. In the end, I personally have had the pleasure of meeting many such stable dogs who indeed are good with children even without prior specific socialization to them (although all dogs had generalized socialization), but there is not enough predictability to this to generalize and hindsight is always 20/20. The issues are very complex and just point to the necessity for a far broader understanding of the range of variations in the frequency and amplitude of canine behaviors and the emotional responses to stimuli present in the various races of dogs as well as the individual similarities and differences. Chris Redenbach Alliance Dog Training School Arion Bouviers des Flandres From: IN%"ajh6css@basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk" 15-MAY-1997 13:29:14.27 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Difference in farm animal behaviour Hi I am wondering if anyone can help me. I am an undergraduate currently undertaking a project on the differences in commercial systems used for raising cattle, pig and hens in term of there behaviour. I am finding it hard to find any references on the subject or information. Can any one help, Regards Andrew Andrew Hanson Bolton Institute England e-mail - Ajh6css@basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk From: IN%"robin@coape.win-uk.net" "Robin E Walker" 15-MAY-1997 18:23:44.40 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: is socialization in dogs necessary This is interesting; I think Chris Redenbach has made some very important points here: I would like to draw attention to to work of Murphree and Dykman here elegantly sumarised by Isaac Marks:- Dogs have been bred for all sorts of characteristics over thousands of years "Pointers were selectively bred into two separate strains, one fearful, the other not (Dykman et al 1965, 1969; Murphree et al 1966, reviewed by Fuller & Thompson 1978). Breeding began with a few pairs of dogs that were either timid or confident (stable). By the F2 generation 90% of the offspring of the originally timid dogs were fearful, and 80% of the progeny of the originally stable pointers were stable. A visitor would cause the timid ones to hide and freeze, and the others to approach wagging their tails. Timid dogs were less active in a strange room, froze during a loud sound, learned poorly in operant and other free-moving situations, and reacted more to positive and negative conditioned stimuli. Given the association of freezing with bradycardia , it is noteworthy that in timid dogs, which froze often, the heart rate was low from birth onward, averaging 80 beats per minute (bpm) and not varying with petting nor declining much even after extensive handling; in stable dogs it averaged 120 bpm and declined during petting." Marks, Fears, Phobias and Rituals, 1987 OUP p162 *************** The bradycardic puppy which freezes and is oblivious to a proferred tidbit is a familiar sight on the veterinary examination table. This is the typical "reactive" or fearful puppy and the only opportunity for an accurate prediction of temperament. The nurturing of such a puppy must be carefully conducted with regard to the breed characteristisc for example predation, retrieving, guarding. The mistake is to assume that fearfulness requires cossetting and shielding. Controlled exposure and a process of finely judged emotional toughening is essential to offset the innate timidity. The general flight from "aggressive" a.k.a. confident, extrovert dogs in search of "nice" dogs tends to select for obsequious, fawning individuals or in other words timid dogs prized for their biddability. Herein lies the resevoir of fear-biters or phobics. Add to this the disasterous propensiy for punishment by intuitive owners and the genesis of most seriously aggressive behaviours is revealed. Robin Walker. From: IN%"jon@chinook.uoregon.edu" "Jon Pierce" 15-MAY-1997 18:50:00.81 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: circular data plots Hello fellow etholgists, Does anyone know of a software package that plots circular data nicely with raw or smoothed data? I want to plot the trajectory of worms in 360 degree space. A good book on circular statistics, "Statistical analysis of circular data" by N.I.Fisher,1993, recommends an algorithm for the smoothing of angluar data that's confusing. I'm sure some commericially available program can do this already. The book does not mention how they plotted the raw data in bins. I'm not interested in the "radar" graphs one can make in Excel. Thanks in advance! - Jon Pierce University of Oregon From: IN%"102234.510@CompuServe.COM" "Sabine Van den Weghe" 16-MAY-1997 02:50:23.19 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Ethology network" CC: Subj: proceedings on homepage Dear all, the proceedings of the annual International Congress on Applied Ethology in Freiburg, Germany, has been published some months ago. Nevertheless I would like to point to the work up version in the internet (in english language) - very well prepared I think - including general information about the congress contents and abstracts authors addresses. The address: http://www.dainet.de/ktbl/tier/etho95.htm The new proceedings edition of the congress in 96 will be ready in September. Greetings Sabine Sabine Van den Weghe Kuratorium fuer Technik und Bauwesen in der Landwirtschaft - KTBL Bartningstr. 49 D-64289 Darmstadt Tel: +49-6151-7001-149 FAX: +49-6151-7001-123 email: 102234.510@compuserve.com From: IN%"aisf@ats.it" "Library" 16-MAY-1997 06:47:04.36 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Ethology network" CC: Subj: proceedings on homepage Dear all, the proceedings of the annual International Congress on Applied Ethology in Freiburg, Germany, has been published some months ago. Nevertheless I would like to point to the work up version in the internet (in english language) - very well prepared I think - including general information about the congress contents and abstracts authors addresses. The address: http://www.dainet.de/ktbl/tier/etho95.htm The new proceedings edition of the congress in 96 will be ready in September. Greetings Sabine Sabine Van den Weghe Kuratorium fuer Technik und Bauwesen in der Landwirtschaft - KTBL Bartningstr. 49 D-64289 Darmstadt Tel: +49-6151-7001-149 FAX: +49-6151-7001-123 email: 102234.510@compuserve.com From: IN%"rushenj@EM.AGR.CA" "Jeff Rushen" 16-MAY-1997 14:42:52.40 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Lennoxville Welfare Symposium- Final Reminder FARM ANIMAL WELFARE IN CANADA: NEW TECHNOLOGIES, RESEARCH AND WORLD TRADE A national symposium on farm animal welfare and behaviour will be held on June 6, 1997 at the Centennial Theatre, Bishop's University, Lennoxville, Quebec. The purpose of this national information day is to report on the developments in Canada on the welfare of farm animals. The following topics will be covered: transport, segregated early weaning, world trade, new technologies, management of spent hens and human-animal relationships. The symposium will be followed on the 7th June by a meeting of the North American Reghion of the International Society for Applied Ethology (for information on the ISAE meeting contact Jeff Rushen rushenj@em.agr.ca) This symposium is organized by the Dairy and Swine Research and Development Centre of Lennoxville and the Canadian Expert Committee on Farm Animal Welfare and Behaviour, in collaboration with the Canadian Agri-Food Research Council and the Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada Research Branch. The talks will be translated simultaneously into English and French. Registration price increases AFTER 23RD MAY! For information about how to register contact: Symposium c/o Lorraine Isabelle Dairy and Swine Research and Development Centre Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada P.O. Box 90, 2000 route 108 est, Lennoxville, Quebec, Canada, J1M 1Z3 Tel: (819) 565-9171 or 565-9174, ext.106 Fax: (819) 564-5507 E-mail: isabellel@em.agr.ca World Wide Web: http://res.agr.ca/lennox/welfe.html From: IN%"beaugrand.jacques@uqam.ca" "Beaugrand Jacques" 18-MAY-1997 19:02:45.07 To: IN%"lpn-l@brownvm.brown.edu", IN%"ar-disc@anat.umsmed.edu", IN%"rat-talk@nic.surfnet.nl", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"vetmed-1@uga.cc.uga.edu", IN%"ETHOLOGY@SEARN.SUNET.SE", IN%"absnet-post@loris.cisab.indiana.edu", IN%"SOCIOBIO@SJUVM.STJO CC: Subj: (English) I would like to organize a symposium on the the state of Ethology as a= discipline: recent history & relationships with related sciences (psychology, behavioral= ecology, neurosciences, sociobiology, ...), current state (is it true that= it is dying ?) and possible future (including employment). I am looking for possible competent participants (which I might have= overlooked...). Your suggestions of potential contributors on this topic will be greatly= appreciated. (sorry for the multiple copies you might receive of the present message!) -- (french version): J'aimerais organiser un symposium sur l'=E9tat de l'ethologie comme= discipline: son histoire recente et ses relations avec les disciplines= voisines (psychologie, ecologie du comportement, sociobiologie, ...), sont= etat actuel (est-elle en voie de disparaitre?) et ses perspectives d'avenir= (y compris les possibilites d'emploi). Je suis =E0 la recherche de participants int=E9ressants que j'aurais pu= oublier... Toute suggestion a ce propos sera grandement appreciee. (desole pour les multiples copies que vous recevrez du present appel!) 0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0- Avec les salutations cordiales de /Kind regards from Jacques P. Beaugrand, professeur Unite d'Ethometrie, Dept Psychologie, Universite du Quebec a Montreal, BP 8888, Succ. Centre-Ville Montreal, Quebec, Canada H3C-3P8 -- 514-987-4801 (BV/Voix-ce/Bureau) Internet: beaugrand.jacques@uqam.ca=20 514-987-7953 (Fax) _\\|//_ 514-949-1257 (Mobile) ///|\\\ @ =A6 @ ----------------------oOO--(_)--OOo-----------------------------=20 =20 Visitez mon site Web/Visit my Home page: =20 http://www.er.uqam.ca/nobel/r20370/ =20 =20 Site de la SQEBC: http://www.er.uqam.ca/nobel/r20370/sqebc.htm =20 Site de l'AFEEE: http://www.er.uqam.ca/nobel/r20370/afeee.htm =20 Site de la SQRP: http://www.er.uqam.ca/nobel/r20370/sqrp.htm =20 =20 ---------------------oOOO------OOOo-----------------------------=20 =20 From: IN%"jiracka@rhea.ids.pl" "Joanna Iracka" 19-MAY-1997 06:45:19.18 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Please let me introduce myself as a new list member Hello, I would like to introduce myself to the applied animal ethology list. I am veterinary surgeon working in a small animal practice in Warsaw (Poland). I graduated from the Faculty of Veterinary Medicine in 1993. I have been interested in animal psychology all my life. Unfortunately, there is no mention of animal ethology during the veterinary course in Poland. We don't have any organization for clinical ethology either. I am a member of European Society for Veterinary Clinical Ethology since 1995. I have some experience in dog training (obedience, shutzhund for competitions). I recently received the address of this list (as well as an access to e-mail) and hope I can learn a great deal from you all. I will rather litsten than be able to add something to your discussions, and may be asking stupid questions... I have limited experience treating my patients with behavioral problems but I am trying to do my best, since, anyway, I have nobody to refer them to. Should anybody from Poland be subscribed to this list I would appreciated very much if they contacted me. It would be very nice if we could get in touch.  From: IN%"jiracka@rhea.ids.pl" "Joanna Iracka" 19-MAY-1997 07:55:14.56 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Please let me introduce myself as a new list member Hello, I would like to introduce myself to the applied animal ethology list. I am veterinary surgeon working in a small animal practice in Warsaw (Poland). I graduated from the Faculty of Veterinary Medicine in 1993. I have been interested in animal psychology all my life. Unfortunately, there is no mention of animal ethology during the veterinary course in Poland. We don't have any organization for clinical ethology either. I am a member of European Society for Veterinary Clinical Ethology since 1995. I have some experience in dog training (obedience, shutzhund for competitions). I recently received the address of this list (as well as an access to e-mail) and hope I can learn a great deal from you all. I will rather litsten than be able to add something to your discussions, and may be asking stupid questions... I have limited experience treating my patients with behavioral problems but I am trying to do my best, since, anyway, I have nobody to refer them to. Should anybody from Poland be subscribed to this list I would appreciated very much if they contacted me. It would be very nice if we could get in touch.  From: IN%"rushenj@EM.AGR.CA" "Jeff Rushen" 19-MAY-1997 11:34:45.49 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: requirements for veal calf housing The Canadian recommended codes for the care and handling of special-fed veal calves are about to be updated. I am looking for any recent information concerning recommendations or regulations in other countries concerning veal calf housing especially 1. any recommendations or regulations that relate to group housing systems, such as optimal stocking densities, group sizes, temperature requirements, use of bedding, milk feeding systems etc. 2. regulations concerning stocking densities during transport. My gratitude for any help will be unbounded. Jeff Rushen Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, rushenj@em.agr.ca From: IN%"marithe@mandic.com.br" "maria thereza amaral" 20-MAY-1997 06:00:06.53 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Kids and animals I would like to know about books and periodics that comments about this: Kids , dogs or cats and their interaction . Thanks maria thereza cera galvao do amaral veterinarian ( medica veterinaria ) homeopatician ( homeopata ) marithe@mandic.com.br Sao Paulo - Brasil From: IN%"grarthur@vassar.edu" 20-MAY-1997 09:42:04.42 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Unsubscribing from the list Would somebody "in charge" please send out the unsubscibing address again? Also, it may be worth it to have the applied ethology server tack subscribing/unsubscribing instructions onto the bottom of every outgoing message. Thank you Gregory A. K-Arthur. From: IN%"ncarter@cobra.law.miami.edu" "Nicholas B. Carter" 20-MAY-1997 09:52:44.50 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Reminder: How to subscribe and unsubscribe In order to SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE from the Applied-ethology network you MUST send your request to: applied-ethology-REQUEST@sask.usask.ca (NOTE the word REQUEST in the address) on the first line of your message (NOT the subject header) you must type: unsubscribe applied-ethology your e-mail address (for example to unsubscribe I would type: unsubscribe applied-ethology joseph.stookey@sask.usask.ca Please do NOT send your request to the entire network. If you are having trouble send a message directly to me at: joseph.stookey@sask.usask.ca WARNING! Anyone ignoring this procedure within 48 hrs of receiving this message will be sent a copy of the Good Times Virus, plus a collection of messages by Jeff Rushen complaining about too many dog messages! Joe List (manager?, owner? certainly not the moderator?) ======================= Joseph M. Stookey Department of Herd Medicine and Theriogenology Western College of Veterinary Medicine University of Saskatchewan Saskatoon, Saskatchewan S7N 5B4 Canada joseph.stookey@sask.usask.ca From: IN%"grarthur@vassar.edu" 20-MAY-1997 10:32:16.62 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Unsubscribing information Would somebody "in charge" please send out the unsubscibing address again? Also, it may be worth it to have the applied ethology server tack subscribing/unsubscribing instructions onto the bottom of every outgoing message. Thank you Gregory A. K-Arthur. From: IN%"schilder@neuretp.biol.ruu.nl" 21-MAY-1997 02:49:13.36 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Dodman's e-mail address Dear All, I am looking for the e-mail address of Nick Dodman in the US Can somebody be of help? Thanks very much dr Matthijs Schilder Ethology and socio-ecology University of Utrecht PO box 80.086, 3508 TB Utrecht Netherlands From: IN%"Lise.Dybkjaer@SH.DK" "Lise Dybkjaer" 21-MAY-1997 03:43:58.78 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca'" CC: Subj: weaning age in outdoor pigs Dear ethologists ! A student of mine, Karin Kjaer Jensen, is going to do a study for her Master degree on the subject "The effect of weaning age on the welfare of sows and piglets in outdoor pig production". She will mainly focus on behaviour parameters, whereas others will cover health aspects. Karin and I would appreciate any information on the subject in general and on the behaviour aspect in particular. Are there others out there working with weaning age and/or welfare parameters in outdoor pig production ? Any recent references ? We look forward to a lot of response. Lise and Karin From: IN%"Lise.Dybkjaer@SH.DK" "Lise Dybkjaer" 21-MAY-1997 03:53:28.54 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca'" CC: Subj: weaning age in outdoor pigs >From: Lise Dybkjaer >Sent: 21, maj 1997 11.44 >To: 'applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca' >Subject: weaning age in outdoor pigs > >Dear ethologists ! > >A student of mine, Karin Kjaer Jensen, is going to do a study for her Master >degree on the subject "The effect of weaning age on the welfare of sows and >piglets in outdoor pig production". She will mainly focus on behaviour >parameters, whereas others will cover health aspects. > >Karin and I would appreciate any information on the subject in general and on >the behaviour aspect in particular. Are there others out there working with >weaning age and/or welfare parameters in outdoor pig production ? Any recent >references ? > >We look forward to a lot of response. > >Lise and Karin > From: IN%"horikawa@iexas.med.osaka-u.ac.jp" 21-MAY-1997 04:24:03.52 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Monkeyand Cats Dear, I'm vet in Osaka University Medical School. Now I try to treat cats and monkeys. I need to catch and sometimes restrict them. I'd like to use ketamine-acepromazine combination but, Could you tell me detail dose of this ? or Could you tell or recommed good sedative drugs or anaesthesic drugs ? Thanks you and sorry that my poor English. **************************************************************************** Yoko Horikawa The Institute of Experimental Animal Sciences(IEXAS) Osaka University Medical School 2-2, Yamadaoka, Suita City, Osaka, Japan 565 horikawa@iexas.med.osaka-u.ac.jp **************************************************************************** From: IN%"joseph.stookey@usask.ca" 21-MAY-1997 11:07:37.53 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: University courses in ethology (fwd) Hi. I am currently taking my A'levels and then am going on to study photography. I would like to end up as a wildlife photographer and would be very interested in studying ethology at university. Does anyone know of any good courses (preferably in England, but I am interested in other places too)? Thanks, Jemma Harding From: IN%"Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "CM. Sherwin" 22-MAY-1997 02:19:13.74 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: turkeys, behaviour and welfare Dear All, I am currently working on a project studying the behaviour and welfare of turkeys. One issue is the incidence and severity of feather-pecking and/or aggression. I would very much appreciate comments on these from people who have worked with, or raised turkeys (domestic or wild). I would be particularly interested to hear from people who have raised turkeys under Rfree-rangeS conditions. My thanks in advance for your time. Chris Sherwin University of Bristol From: IN%"VEHSE@donald.ktf.fal.de" "Kerstin Vehse, KTF" 22-MAY-1997 03:03:21.42 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Introduction Hello, I'd like to introduce myself to you as a new list member. I am a veterinarian, working in a small animal practice in Celle (Germany),and I'm working about turkey-physiology to get my PhD. I'm interested in behavior and behavioral problems treatment for dogs and cats since a long time. I have some experience in dog training and I try to get as many informations about new methods as possible. At the moment I need some detailed informations about dominant-aggessive dogs with aggression against male dogs. I would appreciate to "meet" other behaviorists and like to learn from them. I'm looking forward to new contacts and interesting communication, so long Kerstin Vehse From: IN%"VEHSE@donald.ktf.fal.de" "Kerstin Vehse, KTF" 22-MAY-1997 03:23:14.33 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: turkeys, behavior, wellfare I did not get the message about someone who works about turkeys, turkey behavior and wellfare right. Please contact me, because I am working about turkey physiology and housing - especialy the influence of light and temperature. Vehse@ktf.fal.de From: IN%"joseph.stookey@usask.ca" 22-MAY-1997 07:55:14.32 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: tv program research (fwd) Dear All, The following message was sent to me and I am wondering if anyone on this list may be able to respond to this request. Also, please remember, if you want to send a message to the entire group you must address the message to: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca If you use the REPLY function your message will only be sent to the Joe =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D If you want to subscribe or unsubscribe send a message to me: =09joseph.stookey@sask.usask.ca =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Joseph M. Stookey Department of Herd Medicine and Theriogenology Western College of Veterinary Medicine University of Saskatchewan Saskatoon, Saskatchewan S7N 5B4 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 03:07:32 +0200 From: "Frei [iso-8859-1] Tam=E1s" To: stookey@sask.usask.ca Subject: tv program research Dear Dr. Stookey, I'm writing on behalf of a Hungarian television production team called Action News. You may find out much more about us on our web site: www.extreme.hu/dosszie/=20 I'm wondering if you'd be able to help me in my search for sience laboratories where they experiment with communication between human and animals. we are planning to make a program about that. I have already contacted Dr. Herman in Hawaii, Dr. Gory, Dr Savage-Rumbaugh, Dr. Patterson, and Dr. Pepperberg in the US. I'm specially searching for dolphin communicatiors. Can you please help me, or let me know if I came to the wrong site.=20 Yours faithfully, Csilla Dalton Executive editor From: IN%"postmaster@compuserve.com" "CompuServe_Mail" 22-MAY-1997 08:03:25.16 To: IN%"'BlindCopyReceiver:;'@compuserve.com" CC: Subj: Delivery report for message to rc_rutt Dear All, The following message was sent to me and I am wondering if anyone on this list may be able to respond to this request. Also, please remember, if you want to send a message to the entire group you must address the message to: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca If you use the REPLY function your message will only be sent to the Joe =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D If you want to subscribe or unsubscribe send a message to me: =09joseph.stookey@sask.usask.ca =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Joseph M. Stookey Department of Herd Medicine and Theriogenology Western College of Veterinary Medicine University of Saskatchewan Saskatoon, Saskatchewan S7N 5B4 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 03:07:32 +0200 From: "Frei [iso-8859-1] Tam=E1s" To: stookey@sask.usask.ca Subject: tv program research Dear Dr. Stookey, I'm writing on behalf of a Hungarian television production team called Action News. You may find out much more about us on our web site: www.extreme.hu/dosszie/=20 I'm wondering if you'd be able to help me in my search for sience laboratories where they experiment with communication between human and animals. we are planning to make a program about that. I have already contacted Dr. Herman in Hawaii, Dr. Gory, Dr Savage-Rumbaugh, Dr. Patterson, and Dr. Pepperberg in the US. I'm specially searching for dolphin communicatiors. Can you please help me, or let me know if I came to the wrong site.=20 Yours faithfully, Csilla Dalton Executive editor From: IN%"arkabc@arkanimals.com" 22-MAY-1997 09:29:23.40 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Articles of Interest Ark Animal Tracks has moved to a new domain! Vist the new location (http://www.arkanimals.com) for the latest articles. New topics this month are: Enrichment 101: A Brief Overview The Status of the Animal Mind Common Training Errors 101: Confusing Consistency with Predictability Unusual Careers with Animals: Part Three If you are a professional in the animal field and are interested in contributing, please email your query to arkabc@arkanimals.com Diana Guerrero Ark Animals From: IN%"Helen.Hirt@bvet.admin.ch" "Helen Hirt" 23-MAY-1997 03:39:28.02 To: IN%"Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "CM. Sherwin", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: turkeys, behaviour and welfare At 09:17 22.05.97 +0100, CM. Sherwin wrote: >Dear All, > >I am currently working on a project studying the behaviour and welfare of >turkeys. One issue is the incidence and severity of feather-pecking >and/or aggression. I would very much appreciate comments on these from >people who have worked with, or raised turkeys (domestic or wild). I >would be particularly interested to hear from people who have raised >turkeys under Rfree-rangeS conditions. > >My thanks in advance for your time. > >Chris Sherwin >University of Bristol > > Dear Chris I am working on feather-pecking and injuries in fattening turkeys. I have raised several times different turkey lines for fattening under different housing conditions. I do have few experiences on raising under semi-natural conditions. But please let me know more about your work. Helen Hirt Swiss Federal Veterinary Office, Station for the Examination of Housing Systems for Poultry and Rabbits, Burgerweg 22, CH-3052 Zollikofen Tel: 0041 31 915 35 18, Fax: 0041 31 915 35 14, E-Mail: Helen.Hirt@bvet.admin.ch From: IN%"kllager@nadc.ars.usda.gov" "Kris Lager" 23-MAY-1997 09:54:50.09 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: introduction, new subscriber to Applied Ethology discussion group 5-23-97 Hi, I'm Kris Lager. I work at the National Animal Disease Center in Ames, Ia. Our mission is to conduct basic and applied research on economically important animal species. I am an animal care technician. My latest project is to solve the problem of housing cattle long-term in biocontainment on concrete. Issues: 1)cattle become obese, 2) cattle develope lameness, 3)cattle are fed pelleted ration to fulfull 24 hrs of nutrient requirement-which is consumed in 15 min. am and pm feedings. My solution: a self-propelled treadmill which delivers proportioned amounts of feed (pellets and/or hay cubes)whenever the animal elects to operate the equipment. I expect to construct the prototype myself but I need help locating parts, equipment, anything necessary to build a cow-capable SELF-propelled treadmill. Any ideas?? Also, I've an interest in participating in meetings by this organization and would like info regarding same. More Intro: The NADC is in Ames, Iowa, USA. I have a B.S. in Animal Science and a M.S. in the Area of Physiology. My interests are mostly in livestock and applied stockmanship: conditioning livestock to handling and stresses associated with laboratory conditions. I am currently a National member of the American Association for Laboratory Animal Science and serve as Pres.-elect of the Iowa Branch AALAS. I am certified as a Laboratory Animal Technologist. I look forward to hearing from you. From: IN%"sfrsal@voyageronline.net" 24-MAY-1997 10:59:15.60 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: squirrel Hope this isn't off topic but I have an infant (less than a day old) squirrel that my cats drug in. He lived through the night. Anyone know if kitten formula will help him. He's taken dried human milk. thanks, sally@vol.com sfrsal@voyageronline.net From: IN%"Paul.Koene@ETHO.VH.WAU.NL" "paul koene" 25-MAY-1997 02:18:23.96 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: 5th Poultry Welfare Symposium Wageningen June 1997 5th Poultry Welfare Symposium 7-10 June 1997 Dear Applied ethologist, We like to present you the Poultry Welfare Symposium Programme (23 May). A detailed programme is in the attached file. We think it is an interesting programme. More than 110 participants are now registered, but there is still some place (for information and correspondence about participation see further). Note that this information and more (regsitration, accommodation etc.) is available and updated at website: http://www.zod.wau.nl/~www-vh/etho/news.html Yours sincerely, Paul Koene Harry Blokhuis Provisional Programme of Symposium Sections (with invited papers listed). Saturday June 7 Roundtables 19:30-21:30h Consumer perception Chairperson B. O. Hughes 19:30-19:45h Consumer perception and poultry welfare R. Bennett (University of Reading, UK) 19:30-21:30h Roundtable Large scale killing Chairperson G. Schaller 19:30-19:45h The humane destruction of large poultry flocks S. Wotton and L. Hewitt (University of Bristol, UK) Sunday June 8 Basic Biology Chairperson M. Gerken 9:00-9:45h Acute and chronic pain in the chicken M.J. Gentle (Roslin Institute, Scotland) Scientific Assessment of housing systems Chairperson R. Tauson 14:00-14:45h Servant of two masters: the contribution of science to welfare assessment and housing design M.C. Appleby (University of Edinburgh, UK) Monday 9 June Stress and Immunology Chairperson J.L. Barnett 8:30-9:15h Environment, stress and immunity: biomarkers of poultry health and well-being R.R. Dietert (Cornell University, USA) Tuesday June 10 Interfacing Genetics and Welfare Chairperson J.M. Faure 8:30-9:15h A genetic perspective of poultry welfare G.F. Barbato (Penn State University, USA) Saturday June 7 Pre-symposium Workshop on Behavioural Methodology Session 1 Measuring locomotion, location and behavioural activity Chairperson: Linda Keeling Session 2 Measuring preferences, motivation and emotional states Chairperson Werner Bessei Session 3 Tools and techniques in behavioural research Presentations of equipment and data programmes CORRESPONDENCE AND INQUIRIES Please forward all correspondence ON ORGANISATIONAL MATTERS To: Mrs. H. Kentie (registration and accommodation) International Agricultural Center (IAC) Section OCC PO Box 88 6700 AB Wageningen, the Netherlands Telephone +31 (0)317 490111 Telefax +31 (0)317 418552 ON SCIENTIFIC MATTERS To: Dr H.J. Blokhuis Institute for Animal Science and Health (ID-DLO) Edelhertweg 15 P.O. Box 65 8200 AB Lelystad Telephone +31 (0)320 238238 Telefax +31 (0)320 238050 E-mail H.J.Blokhuis@id.dlo.nl Or To: Dr P. Koene Department of Animal Sciences / Section Ethology PO box 338 6700 AH Wageningen, the Netherlands Telephone + 31 (0)317 482896 Telefax + 31 (0)317 485006 e-mail paul.koene@etho.vh.wau.nl begin 666 program1.doc MT,\1X*&Q&N$`````````````````````.P`#`/[_"0`&```````````````" M`````0``````````$````@````$```#^____``````````!V````________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______________________]____(0```/[___]S````!0````8````'```` 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M$RJ[`/P``1,JNP#\``$3*KL`_``!$RJ[`/P``1,JNP#\``$3*KL`_``!$RJ[ M`/P``1,JNP#^``$3*A8!_``!$RJ[`/P``1,JNP#\``$3*KL`_``!$RJ[`/P` M`1,JNP#\``$3*KL`_``!$RJ[`/P``1,JNP#\``$3*KL`_``!$RJ[`/P``1,J MNP#\``$3*KL`_``!$RJ[`/P``1,JNP#\``$3*KL`_``!$RJ[`/P``1,JNP#X M````````_````````/0```````#\`````````Q,`)@D(```#$@`H"0@```$` M```!`P`LD4(``-9"``#70@``XD(``.-"``#D0@``Y4(``/X```````#\```` M````^@```````/P```````#\````````_``!$RJ[```````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````!$P```0````$2``8.`!<`"``!`$L`#P``````(@``0/'_ M`@`B``9.;W)M86P`!````#,`"0!=`@!A"0AC$```+@`!0`$``@`N``E(96%D M:6YG(#$```H``0`(`17P`!8\``L`58%=`@!C'`!K'```7``"0!$``@!<``E( M96%D:6YG(#(``#<``@`%`@ M`/Y/`0%B`1X`!4-H86ER```"`!8`!P!5@5X`8Q````````#E/P``"`#E0@`` M``#_____!0"$(?__`0"`(?__`@"$(?__`P"`(?__!`"$(?__!0``````1PD` M``(*```#"@``!Q@```$G```5)P``%B<```2!02!.86UE(&ES M($YO8F]D>2I-86,@-C,P.E1E;7!O2!)=&5M2!. M86UE(&ES($YO8F]D>2U-86,@-C,P.E1E;7!O2!)=&5M``"L,!@(```````````!`&0``@"+`P`````````` M````````````````__\``/__________````````__\`````__](4"!,87-E M``"L,!@(```````````!`&0``@"+ M`P``````````````````````````__\``/__________````````__\````` M__\!@`$````````````+``"``(`````````!``````!!`!46D`$``%1I;65S M($YE=R!2;VUA;@`,%I`!`@!3>6UB;VP`"R:0`0``07)I86P`#R*0`0``2&5L M=F5T:6-A`"(`!``!"(@8``#$`@``J0$`````2;L49G?*%0;3O11F,P#G```` M```````````````````$`(,0```````````````````````````````````A M`R0````(4V%T=7)D87D````$4U521@1355)&`````````````-#/$>"AL1KA M`````````````````````#L``P#^_PD`!@```````````````@````$````` M`````!````(````!````_O___P``````````=@```/__________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ C______________________________________________]- ` end From: IN%"appleby@petbcent.demon.co.uk" "David Appleby" 26-MAY-1997 03:24:51.04 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied-ethology" CC: Subj: Experiment conducted at Utrecht University Dear all, Does anyone have a reference or any information on this subject please. However, an experiment on this question was conducted at Utrecht=20 University where half of a litter or newborn puppies had no exposure to=20 humans while the other half were exposed to a high level of human scent=20 for just one minute, after which the complete litter was kept in=20 isolation from human contact for several weeks. When they were=20 reintroduced to human company, it was found that the puppies that had=20 received the early exposure to the researcher=92s scent had a distinct=20 preference for investigating people as opposed to investigating other=20 environmental stimuli, whereas those puppies that had not had the early=20 experience showed no preference. Best wishes. David=20 _____________________________________________ Name:David Appleby Address:The Pet Behaviour Centre, Upper street, Defford, Worcestershire. WR8 9AB.England. Phone:+44(0)1386 750615 Fax:+44(0)1386 750743 E-mail:appleby@petbcent.demon.co.uk WWW: http://webzone1.co.uk/www/apbc/pbc.htm =20 _____________________________________________ =20 From: IN%"jkincaid@oncomdis.on.ca" 26-MAY-1997 07:37:01.64 To: IN%"appleby@petbcent.demon.co.uk" "David Appleby" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Experiment conducted at Utrecht University Hi David; It sounds as though you are referring to imprinting? I don't have any references off hand although I would be interested in any you find. John Kincaid David Appleby wrote: > > Dear all, > > Does anyone have a reference or any information on this subject please. > > However, an experiment on this question was conducted at Utrecht > University where half of a litter or newborn puppies had no exposure to > humans while the other half were exposed to a high level of human scent > for just one minute, after which the complete litter was kept in > isolation from human contact for several weeks. When they were > reintroduced to human company, it was found that the puppies that had > received the early exposure to the researcher’s scent had a distinct > preference for investigating people as opposed to investigating other > environmental stimuli, whereas those puppies that had not had the early > experience showed no preference. > > Best wishes. > > David > > _____________________________________________ > > Name:David Appleby > Address:The Pet Behaviour Centre, > Upper street, Defford, Worcestershire. > WR8 9AB.England. > Phone:+44(0)1386 750615 > Fax:+44(0)1386 750743 > E-mail:appleby@petbcent.demon.co.uk > WWW: http://webzone1.co.uk/www/apbc/pbc.htm > _____________________________________________ From: IN%"richards@hula.net" 26-MAY-1997 16:24:50.03 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Experiment conducted at Utrecht Uni >It sounds as though you are referring to imprinting? I don't have any >references off hand although I would be interested in any you find. I'm quite sure there have been studies on foal imprinting. References, anyone? Dawn From: IN%"UKNIERIM@Itt.tiho-hannover.de" "Dr. Ute Knierim" 27-MAY-1997 01:42:43.92 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: requirements for veal calf housing Dear Jeff and others interested in calves, > The Canadian recommended codes for the care and handling of > special-fed veal calves are about to be updated. I am looking for any > recent information concerning recommendations or regulations in other > countries concerning veal calf housing especially > > 1. any recommendations or regulations that relate to group housing > systems, such as optimal stocking densities, group sizes, temperature > requirements, use of bedding, milk feeding systems etc. > > 2. regulations concerning stocking densities during transport. Minimum standards for the protection of calves in the EU (Council Directive amended this year) are the following: Space allowances per calf in group housing: 1.5 sqm for calves up to 150 kg, 1.7 sqm up to 220 kg and 1.8 sqm for calves with more than 220 kg. Beginning in 1998 (for new or rebuilt holdings) or 2007 (for all the others) calves older than 8 weeks must in general be kept in groups (in Germany mandatory since 1995). Group size is not regulated. Problems could arise with too large groups fed with automatic systems in terms of increased competition, probably promoted intersucking and disturbance of rest and activity cycles. However, to my knowledge those systems are not (yet) widely used for veal calves and also not well investigated in this regard. We did an investigation comparing feeding of veal calves (group-housed, 2 to 8 weeks of age) with teat buckets and electronic feeder, looking among others at the aspects mentioned above. However, results are not yet available, analysis is in progress (and group sizes were moderate with 8 calves in the bucket and 16 in the electronic feeder groups). Temperature requirements: The German Regulation for the protection of calves requires that in the lying area temparure shall not exceed 25 degree Celsius, and does not fall below 10 degree during the first 10 days of life or 5 degree thereafter (except for outdoor sheds). Bedding: In the EU appropriate bedding must be provided for all calves less than 2 weeks old, but (regrettably) not for older ones. These are not the only standards fixed in the EC-Directive 91/629/EEC of 19 November 1991 (amended by Directive 97/2/EC of 20 January 1997 and Decision K(97) 516 fin of 24 February 1997), so it might be useful to get copies of those texts. Space allowances during transport (road and rail): EC-Directive 95/29/EC on the protection of animals during transport: for calves of up to 50 kg: 0.30-0.40 sqm/calf 110 kg. 0.40-0.70 sqm/calf 200 kg: 0.70-0.95 sqm/calf I hope this information is of some help. Best wishes Ute From: IN%"filip.mulkens@agr.kuleuven.ac.be" 27-MAY-1997 05:32:18.44 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: adress of mrs/mr Ellendorf Dear all My supervisor is looking for the address of a certain Mrs. or Mr. Ellendorf, an applied-ethologist working in Germany. Does anybody can send me her/his address, phone- and faxnumber and e-mail address? Thank you very much F. Mulkens, DVM Laboratory of Agricultural Buildings Research Faculty of Agricultural and Applied Biological Sciences K.U.Leuven Kardinaal Mercierlaan 92 B-3001 HEVERLEE BELGIUM Tel: +32-16-32 17 28 Fax: +32-16-32 19 77 E-mail: filip.mulkens@agr.kuleuven.ac.be From: IN%"D.Goodwin@soton.ac.uk" "debbie goodwin" 27-MAY-1997 05:41:44.52 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: WALTHAM Symposium: The role of the Horse in Europe. I'd like draw the attention of list members to the announcement of a Symposium dedicated to understanding the behaviour of the horse, the effects of domestication on horse behaviour and welfare, and horse-human interactions. The WALTHAM Symposium: The Role of the Horse in Europe. Will be held on Wednesday 17th September 1997, at the St. George Swallow Hotel in Harrogate N.Yorkshire, UK. Session themes include: The Role of Ethology in Horse Management and Welfare. The Economic Importance of the Horse to the EU. Exploring the Complexity of the Horse-Human relationship. Futher details are available via http://www.soton.ac.uk/~azi/symp.htm Registration costs £30.00 for Delegates and £15.00 for poster authors. Rgeistration is via Nell Davidson at WALTHAM +44 (0)1664 415530. There is a call for posters on all aspects of horse behvaiour, management and human-horse interactions. Poster Abstract details are available at http://www.soton.ac.uk/~azi/abstract.htm or via Debbie Goodwin (address below). All abstracts will be refereed. Debbie D.Goodwin PhD Anthrozoology Institute Biodiversity and Ecology University of Southampton, Southampton SO16 7PX, UK. D.Goodwin@soton.ac.uk http://www.soton.ac.uk/~azi/azi.htm From: IN%"cdelgado@mail.internet.com.mx" "Ing. Carlos Delgado Mata" 27-MAY-1997 15:15:50.22 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: First time in Applied Ethology List! Hi, i'm Carlos Delgado from UNAM University in Mexico. I'm a student of Computer Engineering, but im doing a research in Hog Behaviour, for simulating it in a Virtual Environment. So i need help i will appreciate any information on where to find papers, and thesis in the Web. Thanks a lot Carlos From: IN%"filip.mulkens@agr.kuleuven.ac.be" 28-MAY-1997 01:14:23.99 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Address of Prof. Ellendorff found - thanks Dear all Thanks to several colleagues I have found both addresses (Celle and Mariensee) of Prof. Franz Ellendorff. Greetings F. Mulkens, DVM Laboratory for Agricultural Buildings Research Faculty of Agricultural and Applied Biological Sciences K.U.Leuven Kardinaal Mercierlaan 92 B-3001 HEVERLEE BELGIUM Tel: +32-16-32 17 28 Fax: +32-16-32 19 77 E-mail: filip.mulkens@agr.kuleuven.ac.be From: IN%"marithe@mandic.com.br" "maria thereza amaral" 28-MAY-1997 08:34:44.35 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Dominance Please, I would like to know which breeds have a high percentage of dominance aggressive individuals . Thanks maria thereza cera galvao do amaral veterinarian ( medica veterinaria ) homeopatician ( homeopata ) marithe@mandic.com.br Sao Paulo - Brasil From: IN%"SBXNG@sbn3.phes.nottingham.ac.uk" "Nigel Goodwin" 28-MAY-1997 12:20:08.01 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Cardinal dominance ranks? Does anyone have experience of converting dominance ranks into cardinal measures, so that parametric (as opposed to non-parametric) statistics can be done on them? I would welcome opinions on the best way of doing this. The most reviewed method I have seen is Boyd & Silk (Anim. Behav. 1983), but it has been criticized for its complexity (Tomback et al., Ethology 1989) and possible flaws (Rushen, Anim. Behav. 1984). It may sound lazy, but I'd be really annoyed to go through all the complicated maths, only to discover that a much simpler method was published last week! Thanks. From: IN%"Kate.Littin.1@uni.massey.ac.nz" "Kate Littin" 28-MAY-1997 14:10:18.06 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Nigel Goodwin's request Would it be possible to see answers to Nigel's message on the list? Thanks... Regards Kate Littin. >Does anyone have experience of converting dominance ranks into >cardinal measures, so that parametric (as opposed to non-parametric) >statistics can be done on them? From: IN%"appleby@petbcent.demon.co.uk" "David Appleby" 28-MAY-1997 14:39:46.14 To: IN%"marithe@mandic.com.br" "maria thereza amaral" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Dominance In message <1.5.4.16.19970528113636.1aef46e0@mandic.com.br>, maria thereza amaral writes > Please, > > I would like to know which breeds have a high percentage of >dominance aggressive individuals . > Thanks > There is some information on the numbers referred for the treatment of this problem (as defined by the counsellor) at: http://webzone1.co.uk/www/apbc/data.htm Best wishes David _____________________________________________ Name:David Appleby Address:The Pet Behaviour Centre, Upper street, Defford, Worcestershire. WR8 9AB.England. Phone:+44(0)1386 750615 Fax:+44(0)1386 750743 E-mail:appleby@petbcent.demon.co.uk WWW: http://webzone1.co.uk/www/apbc/pbc.htm _____________________________________________ From: IN%"jdehasse@arcadis.be" 29-MAY-1997 01:16:48.58 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"marithe@mandic.com.br" "maria thereza amaral" CC: Subj: RE: Dominance maria thereza amaral wrote: > > Please, > > I would like to know which breeds have a high percentage of > dominance aggressive individuals . ------------------------- It depends on the definition you use for "dominance aggression". Semantically, "dominance" is related to a relationship between 2 individuals at the least. Nobody is dominant alone. So, "dominance" is not inherited at all. And "dominance aggression" is not inherited at all, also. There may be some genetics under caracteristics like "impulsivity", and several (dog) breeds may have a higher percentage of these caracteristics. There is also an inheritance in pathologies like dysthymia (this is a proposal from P. Pageat in a French model of dog pathology: it means the dog has alternating moods, switching from normal/depression to hyperactive hyperaggressive, you may also say "hypomaniac" to correlate it with human psychiatry) and you may find higher percentages of dysthymia in cocker spaniel and springer spaniel. These dogs may be called "dominance aggression" in the American/English model of dog behavioural pathologies. Dr Joel Dehasse (dvm) - Brussels - jdehasse@arcadis.be http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/2913/ From: IN%"H.HOPSTER@id.dlo.nl" 29-MAY-1997 02:10:50.04 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Dominance value Dear networkers, Although I may be blamed for positive reinforcement of laziness, I'd like to respond to Nigel Goodwin's question concerning the measure- ment of social dominance. In our studies of social dominance in dairy cattle, we used a dominance value of an animal in a certain group by calculating the ratio of the number of subordinate animals to the total number of known dominance relationships of that animal. (see Wierenga, 1990. Social dominance in dairy cattle and the influences of housing and management, Appl. Anim. Beh. Sci. 27: 201- 229 for reference). Consequently, you will get a value between 0 and 1. Of course, a minimum number of agonistic interactions between all the individuals of a group is required before a reliable dominance value can be calculated. In the thesis of Herman Wierenga ("Behavi- our of dairy cows under modern housing and management") we discussed this topic in detail in Chapter 2 entitled "Measuring social domi- nance in dairy cows". Briefly, we found that at least 2000-3500 displacements need to be recorded if all the dominance relationships need to be known for a group of 15-20 cows. Unfortunately this chapter was never published elsewhere. Please contact me if you like me to send you a copy. Kind regards, Hans Hopster, Dept. Behaviour, Stress Physiology and Management Institute for Animal Science and Health (ID-DLO) Edelhertweg 15, P.O. Box 65, 8200 AB, Lelystad, The Netherlands tel: 31.320.238205 fax: 31.320.238050 http://www.agro.nl/iddlo/welcome.htm From: IN%"Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "CM. Sherwin" 29-MAY-1997 02:13:41.36 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: measuring dominance Dear Nigel (and others interested in measuring dominance), One of the simplest methods of analysing hierarchies is to use the raw data from which you derive the dominance ranking. For example, if you have recorded behaviour when animals are given limited feeding space, you could use a measure of the latency to feed, the amount of feed consumed, attempts to feed, etc. Then, with appropriate transformations, you can use standard parametric statistics, e.g. ANOVA. This is, of course, assuming that you are measuring priority of access as your basis of a dominance hierarchy, rather than the less informative measure, aggression. Why are the standard non-parametric methods (e.g. KendallUs coefficient of concordance, Spearmans rank correlation) unsuitable? Regards Chris Sherwin University of Bristol From: IN%"hanno.wuerbel@inw.agrl.ethz.ch" 29-MAY-1997 04:23:31.02 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: new address (hello) I have recently moved from Bristol to Z=FCrich My new address is Hanno Wuerbel Institut f=FCr Nutztierwissenschaften Physiologie und Tierhaltung ETH Zentrum TUR E24 CH-8092 Zuerich Phone: ++41 1 632 64 85 =46ax: ++41 1 632 10 69 hanno.wuerbel@inw.agrl.ethz.ch private address Langackerstrasse 68 CH-8057 Z=FCrich Phone: ++41 1 364 48 68 (With a special hello to Christine, Harriet, Mike, Raf, Liz, Cecilia, Chris, Kirsty, Frances) From: IN%"SBXNG@sbn3.phes.nottingham.ac.uk" "Nigel Goodwin" 29-MAY-1997 05:36:27.92 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Cardinal dominance 2 > Does anyone have experience of converting dominance ranks into > cardinal measures.... Thanks for the replies so far. Since people seem interested in the details: I'm looking at dominance of red deer hinds, and I want to treat it as a dependent variable. (The independents are things that may influence rank, such as weight, rank in a previous group, age, last calf weight etc.) But because ranks do not follow a normal distribution, this poses problems for tests like ANOVA. And since it's a captive population with unlimited access to resources, rank measurements can *only* be based on their innate aggressive interactions. Perhaps some kind of transformation would be appropriate? Sorry to be pestering the group, but my department deals mostly with physiology, so advice about behaviour is quite thin on the ground. Thanks. From: IN%"J.Eddison@plymouth.ac.uk" "J Eddison" 29-MAY-1997 06:07:32.84 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Order of entry into milking parlour I am aware that every herdsperson in the world knows that cows enter the milking parlour in a relatively stable order, but I am searching for references that have documented the phenomenon. I should be grateful for any assistance. Thanks in advance, John Eddison From: IN%"arion@dialatlanta.com" 29-MAY-1997 06:47:00.49 To: IN%"marithe@mandic.com.br" "maria thereza amaral" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Dominance maria thereza amaral wrote: > > Please, > > I would like to know which breeds have a high percentage of > dominance aggressive individuals . > Thanks > > > maria thereza cera galvao do amaral > veterinarian ( medica veterinaria ) > homeopatician ( homeopata ) > marithe@mandic.com.br > Sao Paulo - Brasil Maria Thereza, Dominance aggression can be a tricky subject. In any social group including a dog, the dog will attempt to perceive some order in the social group. It will try to identify a leader and will repeatedly ask its social quiestions via various forms of testing the reactions of the various members to see who can be manipulated and who cannot and how each reacts.....they also apparently observe the relaitonships between third parties as do wolves (Zimen). If no one in the social group behaves like a leader, by default, the job falls to the dog. Now this may in fact be the world's wimpiest dog, but there cannot be a vacuum at the top. Now, once the dog has gained this status, it will not be happy to give it up. So any perceived challenges to the status will be met with some resistance, and any void of challenges to the status will allow the individual dog to become very demanding and manipulative of various obliging members of the social group. So the result is a dog that may act aggressively when its perceived status is challenged, but who, in a more sensibly conducted social group, would never have achieved any dominant status at all. Thus we may see more dominance aggression in some breeds because they are typically owned by overly nurturing and permissive (even solicitious) owners. This would include dogs like cockers, lhasas, and any of the large eyed, dome skulled, baby faced breeds who tend to elicit care giving behavior in humans. In addition to this problem of what I might call pseudo or owner induced dominance, from the standpoint that it would tend not to occur without a great deal of "enabling" by the owner, there are other breeds that tend to have some real dominance tendencies as a result of the traditional selective breeding for certain working tasks that require assertiveness. These would tend to include many of the mollosoid breeds and many of the shepeherd and principally cattle dog breeds. The general populations of each of these breeds, esp. in the absence of work selective breeding criteria, would tend to drift so that some of the population would exhibit a tendency toward easily motivated and easily augmented dominant behavior. In all of this discussion of dominance behavior, I would tend to add that the majority of dominance behavior that I have ever seen in practical work with people's pets is ususally the owner enabled type of dominance and the aggression that these same pets show is often based on fear rather than dominance....because a pet that never should have achieved any high social rank is suddenly confronted with stimuli that frighten him and his reaction is defensive. However this kind of fear biting is often difficult to recognize because the dog attempts to escape forward, hit and run style, rather than waiting until cornered because the animal's dominant behavior has been reinforced previously (among some other possible reasons for this behavior). In terms of actual populations and frequencies of dominance within certain breeds, there will be variations dependent upon the preponderance fo certain bloodlines in some regions. As youcan see from the list David Appelby referred to, there is a wide and perhaps unexpected range. I would well imagine that a similar list in another country would yield a different mix. Your friend's mini schnauzer might be a good candidate for either of the two general types of dominant behavior, as many in the breed tend to be dominant little dogs, but they are also high on the list of owner enabled dogs. The fila brasiliero is especially dominant but also has tendencies to other forms of aggression including fear (escape forward usually) due to low acceptance of secondary socialization and high suspicion. The success fo behavior modification in these cases can, assuming the correct evaluation and competence of the practitioner, be more easily achieved amongst the group of dogs with primarily owner enabled dominance as opposed to those dogs who would seriously bid for dominance even in the presence of good leadership. The reason, of course, is that these dogs who have been pushed upwards in rank despite themselves, are usually very happy to find a leader they can respect. The naturally dominant, born to lead type, is less easily dissuaded and the task takes much more political adeptness and diplomacy to achieve without warfare. Chris Redenbach Alliance Dog Training School, Inc. From: IN%"scrowell@calc.vet.uga.edu" "Sharon Crowell-Davis" 29-MAY-1997 06:48:59.20 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: New email address I have a new email address. It is scrowell@calc.vet.uga.edu Sharon Crowell-Davis ********************************************** Sharon L. Crowell-Davis DVM, PhD Diplomate, American College of Veterinary Behaviorists College of Veterinary Medicine University of Georgia Athens, Georgia 30602 scrowell@calc.vet.uga.edu If a little knowledge is dangerous, where is the man who has so much as to be out of danger? T.H. Huxley On Elementary Instruction in Physiology From: IN%"scrowell@calc.vet.uga.edu" "Sharon Crowell-Davis" 29-MAY-1997 06:55:54.11 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: New address I have a new email address. It is scrowell@calc.vet.uga.edu Sharon Crowell-Davis ********************************************** Sharon L. Crowell-Davis DVM, PhD Diplomate, American College of Veterinary Behaviorists College of Veterinary Medicine University of Georgia Athens, Georgia 30602 scrowell@calc.vet.uga.edu If a little knowledge is dangerous, where is the man who has so much as to be out of danger? T.H. Huxley On Elementary Instruction in Physiology From: IN%"murn@uriacc.uri.edu" "Murn Nippo" 29-MAY-1997 07:24:58.05 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Milking Parlor Order In response to John Eddison's request Gadbury, J.C., 1975. Some preliminary field observations on the order of entry of cows into herringbone parlors. Appl. Anim. thol. 1:275-281. Kilgour, R. and T.H., Scott. 1959Leadrhip in a her of dairy cows. Proc. N.Z. Soc. Anim. Prod. 19:36-43. -- Dr. Murn M. Nippo FAVS Department, University of Rhode Island Woodward Hall, Kingston, RI 02881 USA Phone 401-874-2940 (voice) 401 874-4017 (fax) murn@uriacc.uri.edu (E-Mail) http://www.uri.edu/crd/favs_home/mn.html -- From: IN%"H.HOPSTER@id.dlo.nl" 29-MAY-1997 08:56:30.41 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Milking order To John Eddison (please send me your address)=20 and everyone interested in milking order, Below, I listed some references about milking order in dairy cows.= =20 Rathore, A.K., 1982. Order of cow entry at milking and its relati- onships with milk yield and consistency of the order, Appl. Anim. Ethol., 8 , pp-45-52 Gadbury, J.C., 1975. Some preliminary field observations on the order of entry of cows into herringbone parlours, Appl. Anim. Ethology, 1: 275-281 Hidar, H., M. Kido and S. Suzuki, 1973. The order of entry of cows into a milking parlour under loose-housing conditions, Jpn. J. Zootech. Sci., 44, 33-38 Reinhardt, V., 1973. Social rank order and milking order in cows, Zeitschr. Tierpsychol., 32, 281-292 Soffi=82, G., Thin=8As, S.G. and G. de Marneffe, 1976. Relation betwe= en milking order and dominance value in a group of dairy cows, Appl. Anim. Ethol., 2, 271-276 Willenes, A.E.R. and P. Lampo, 1964. The order of succession of cows entering a milking shed, Vlaams Diergeneeskd. Tijdschr., 33, 75 Keszthelyi, T. and K. Maros, 1992. Moving order in different group sizes of milking ewes, Appl. Anim. Behav. Sci., 35 , pp-181-188 Hoping this info is helpful, Hans Hopster, Dept. Behaviour, Stress Physiology and Management Institute for Animal Science and Health (ID-DLO) Edelhertweg 15, P.O. Box 65, 8200 AB,=20 Lelystad, The Netherlands tel: 31.320.238205 fax: 31.320.238050 http://www.agro.nl/iddlo/welcome.htm From: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" 29-MAY-1997 09:32:50.71 To: IN%"SBXNG@sbn3.phes.nottingham.ac.uk" "Nigel Goodwin" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: Value Added Ranks On Wed, 28 May 1997, Nigel Goodwin wrote: > Does anyone have experience of converting dominance ranks into > cardinal measures, so that parametric (as opposed to non-parametric) > statistics can be done on them? > Why bother? A rank is a rank. Unless you have some basis for believing that you know something about the relative distance (on whatever measure) between ranks 1 and 2 and between ranks 7 and 8, treating them as points on a continuously graduated scale has to be a bit suspect. Hans Hopster's and Chris Sherwin's solutions work because they use more of the original information from observations of the animals. In other words they both incorporate >MORE< information bits into the score. I suppose the resulting score from either would in fact be ratio or interval data, not a rank. Unless there is more information to be used in this way, I don't see how you can justify a transformation to a higher data level. If you wanted to you could ditch some bits from your rank data and classify them as categorical (eg high, middle or low ranking). Then you could put them in contingency tables, if that turns you on. But I don't think you can do it the other way. Without something extra and meaningful to pump up the data with you can never know where any one rank (apart from the top and bottom one perhaps) should be placed, or the ratios between them. If you assume they fall at regular intervals you are 1) probably wrong and 2) arguably no better off than if you had used the ranks in the first place. Parametric and nonparametric statistics are like surgery and medicine. Each appropriate for individual cases. I don't think you automatically gain something by massaging data into a form they don't naturally want to take, and implicitly making unwarranted assumptions about them, just to be able to carry out a particular set of tests. There won't be any benefit in terms of what the results actually mean, or in how much confidence you can have in them. For what it's worth I'd say unless you have more information to use, go with nonparametric tests based on assumptions you can support, and leave exotic transformations to transvestites. Jon ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Watts (___) ) ) University of Saskatchewan |o o|___________/ ( Dept of Herd Medicine O \#/ | ) and Theriogenology |bser| | Statistical | ( Western College of Vet. Med. |vati| | analysis | ) 52 Campus Drive |ons.| \___________/| *& Saskatoon ------ || || %$#@ S7N 1B4 / \ || || ^*@*~ Canada &^%%#$@ wattsjon@duke.usask.ca "The Holy Cow" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IN%"lmoffat@uoguelph.ca" "L. Moffat" 29-MAY-1997 11:09:10.84 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Australian schools I am planning on visiting some friends in Australia sometime down the road and would like to know if there is anybody who knows if any of the universities there have an ethology department or specialize in animal science? Has anyone studied there? I would like to hear about it. Thanks a lot, Lesley Moffat University of Guelph Ontario, Canada lmoffat@uoguelph.ca From: IN%"appleby@petbcent.demon.co.uk" "David Appleby" 29-MAY-1997 12:07:21.77 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied-ethology" CC: Subj: RE: Dominance Dear all, In message <338D77D9.3A0D@dialatlanta.com>, Chris Redenbach writes >In terms of actual populations and frequencies of dominance within >certain breeds, there will be variations dependent upon the >preponderance fo certain bloodlines in some regions. As youcan see from >the list David Appelby referred to, there is a wide and perhaps >unexpected range. I think it is also important to highlight the fact that the figures are from a sample of those dogs coming forward for treatment, upon which there will be other demographic factors. Best wishes David _____________________________________________ Name:David Appleby Address:The Pet Behaviour Centre, Upper street, Defford, Worcestershire. WR8 9AB.England. Phone:+44(0)1386 750615 Fax:+44(0)1386 750743 E-mail:appleby@petbcent.demon.co.uk WWW: http://webzone1.co.uk/www/apbc/pbc.htm _____________________________________________ From: IN%"joseph.stookey@usask.ca" 29-MAY-1997 12:28:03.88 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Announcing Noldus Forum (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 12:15:35 +0000 From: Wineke Schoo To: Stookey@sask.usask.ca Subject: Announcing Noldus Forum Dear postmaster of Applied Ethology, I would like to ask you if you can post this message on your mailing list. Thank you very much in advance. Wineke Schoo Listowner Noldus-Forum **************************** Noldus Information Technology is proud to announce that a mailing list, called Noldus Forum, has been set up to provide all (potential) users of Noldus products (The Observer, EthoVision, Signal, UltraVox, etc.) with an easy way of communicating with each other world-wide. We hope that this list will make it easier to find out about tips & tricks and solutions to problems others may have discovered, and learn about what other people are accomplishing. We also hope that the list will provide you with an interactive forum for the exchange of information and ideas among people interested in the methodological and technical aspects of behavioral research. The diversity of behavioral research makes it a very exciting market. The development of generic software tools can form a bridge between disciplines, which are often unaware of techniques already available in other fields. Thus, we have noticed that data analysis methods stemming from ethology are now being used by applied psychologists, and that path analysis techniques originally designed by entomologists, are equally useful for behavioral pharmacologist studying rodents. Along this line, we hope that Noldus Forum will serve as a common ground for cross-fertilization of behavioral research disciplines. It is very easy to subscribe to Noldus Forum: just send mail to listserver@noldus.nl with the message contents of SUBSCRIBE Noldus-Forum EXIT and you'll be automatically included in the list of subscribers. Be sure to use your real name, rather than your email address. The subject line is ignored. Note that the software tries to interpret every line of the message body as a command, so any "signature" text appended by your mailer will confuse it. The EXIT command tells the listserver to ignore any following text, such as a signature. If you have any questions, you can use the following address: postmaster@noldus.nl. ______________________________________ Noldus Information Technology b.v. Costerweg 5 P.O. Box 268 6700 AG Wageningen The Netherlands Phone: +31-(0)317-497677 Fax: +31-(0)317-424496 E-mail: w.schoo@noldus.nl WWW: http://www.noldus.com From: IN%"serpell@vet.upenn.edu" 29-MAY-1997 13:45:39.92 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: dominant dogs Before we get into deep water over the issue of dominance in dog breeds, it is important to emphasize that the true answer to maria thereza amaral's question is that we have **NO** reliable data to indicate which breeds display higher frequencies of dominance aggression or any other behavior problem. Behavioral referrals are only meaningful if we know the proportions of the different breeds in the area from which these referrals are drawn. Since these data are rarely, if ever, available, it is impossible to state with any degree certainty whether the number of, say, cocker spaniel referrals is higher or lower than would be expected by chance. James Serpell ___________________________________________________________________ School of Veterinary Medicine, Dept. of Clinical Studies, University of Pennsylvania, 3900 Delancey Street, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6010. USA. Tel: (215) 898-1004 Fax: (215) 573-6050 serpell@vet.upenn.edu From: IN%"amthomps@zebu.cvm.msu.edu" "Amy Thompson" 29-MAY-1997 13:58:33.08 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: veterinary internships Hi everyone. I was wondering if any of you know if internships exist for veterinary animal behavior. I am a senior vet student at MSU and may be interested in this when I finish. Would I have to go through the match? Can I create a program for myself if none exist? Thank you for any information at all, ~Amy Thompson CVM '98 amthomps@zebu.cvm.msu.edu From: IN%"Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "CM. Sherwin" 29-MAY-1997 14:03:58.50 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: 3-D's Dominance, Dominance, Dominance Dear All, I find it intriguing that the current discussions on the bulletin board are of markedly different subject matters and yet all are using the same word to denote a form of social organisation which is purportedly generalisable, i.e. there appear to be three different usages of the word and/or concept of Dominance. (1) Dehasse Joel is using the word to describe the nature of potentially injurious and spontaneous attacks by dogs on other dogs or humans, (2) Nigel Goodwin is using Dominance as a label for a rank order based on recordings of agonistic or aggressive interactions and (3) my own use (which is, I believe, the most widely supported amongst applied ethologists and socio-biologists) which relates to the social organisation observed within almost all animal groups that confers priority of access to individuals when resources are limited. I expect that almost every applied ethologist has at some time recorded some form of social relationship and termed this a RdominanceS hierarchy, yet there is still little consensus on its meaning and especially its measurement. I am aware that one of the favourite leisure pursuits of this bulletin-board is playing semantics - which is not always necessarily helpful(!), but for a concept which is as crucial to applied ethology as is Dominance, would it not be helpful if we could agree on a generalisable meaning - dare I say definition! ...or should I take the easy option and run away and redefine STRESS!!! :) Regards, Chris Sherwin University of Bristol From: IN%"ie7@umail.umd.edu" 29-MAY-1997 14:54:08.06 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: New address Hi, I have recently move from Spain to USA. My new address is: --------------------------------- Inma Estevez Dept. Animal and Avian Sciences University of Maryland College Park, MD 20742 Telephone: 301-405-5779 Fax: 301-314-9059 E-Mail: ie7@umail.umd.edu From: IN%"UKNIERIM@Itt.tiho-hannover.de" "Dr. Ute Knierim" 30-MAY-1997 00:21:16.25 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Order of entry into milking parlour > I am aware that every herdsperson in the world knows that cows enter > the milking parlour in a relatively stable order, but I am searching > for references that have documented the phenomenon. In Syme, G.J. & Syme, L.A. (1979): Social structure in farm animals. Elsevier, Amsterdam the question of meaning and relevance of the milking order is critically discussed. Best wishes Ute From: IN%"jdehasse@arcadis.be" 30-MAY-1997 02:05:40.64 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "CM. Sherwin" CC: Subj: RE: 3-D's Dominance, Dominance, Dominance CM. Sherwin wrote: > I find it intriguing that the current discussions on the bulletin board > are of markedly different subject matters and yet all are using the same > word to denote a form of social organisation which is purportedly > generalisable, i.e. there appear to be three different usages of the word > and/or concept of Dominance. (1) Dehasse Joel is using the word to > describe the nature of potentially injurious and spontaneous attacks by > dogs on other dogs or humans, (2) Nigel Goodwin is using Dominance as a > label for a rank order based on recordings of agonistic or aggressive > interactions and (3) my own use (which is, I believe, the most widely > supported amongst applied ethologists and socio-biologists) which relates > to the social organisation observed within almost all animal groups that > confers priority of access to individuals when resources are limited. > When I am speaking about "dominance aggression", I do not imply "spontaneous" or "injurious" attacks, but ritualised competitive hierarchical aggression between dogs or showed by dogs toward humans. I would tend to agree with your definition of "dominance" but only in hierarchical groups, not in gregarious ones. Dominance is a recognized temporary status inside a group. In the French model, we never use the terminology "dominance aggression". Because, a dominant dog is not very aggressive; a challenger dog is more "injurious" in terms of danger, bites, and aggression in general and will show competitive aggression, irritation aggression and territorial aggression. It seems that in the American model, the terminology "dominance aggression" is covering a lot of clinical situations, not always related to "dominance" as defined in ethology but with a broader meaning, including tolerance to manipulation, etc. I hope this may help to explain my position. As a clinician I'm working with this "priority of access" but also with the "priority of control and initiatives" and the "social and sexual exhibitionism" accepted from dominant by the group (family-pack system). The issue is complex. Dr Joel Dehasse (dvm) - Brussels - jdehasse@arcadis.be http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/2913/ From: IN%"MAPPLEBY@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk" "Mike Appleby" 30-MAY-1997 03:01:10.57 To: IN%"Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "CM. Sherwin" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: 3-D's Dominance, Dominance, Dominance Dear Chris et al. > there appear to be three different usages of the word > and/or concept of Dominance. (1) Dehasse Joel is using the word to > describe the nature of potentially injurious and spontaneous attacks by > dogs on other dogs or humans, (2) Nigel Goodwin is using Dominance as a > label for a rank order based on recordings of agonistic or aggressive > interactions and (3) my own use (which is, I believe, the most widely > supported amongst applied ethologists and socio-biologists) which relates > to the social organisation observed within almost all animal groups that > confers priority of access to individuals when resources are limited. Well, I wouldn't put it in any of these three ways, although the way I would put it (which I would claim is the majority view, but then I would, wouldn't I?) is compatible with all three. Dominance is a relationship between two individuals, in which one, the dominant, constrains the behaviour of the other, the subordinate. That constraint may be by aggression or may be by the subordinate avoiding the dominant. The relationships among all the individuals in the group constitute the 'organization' in (3), above. They may well affect access to resources, and this may be the functional explanation for their existence, but the behaviour we see which needs explaining is the social interactions - indeed, often the interactions occur without any tangible resources being involved, and often access to different resources doesn't correlate closely. As such, I disagree with Chris' earlier mailing suggesting that observation of differential access to resources is most important and that observation of aggression is less reliable. The former is the RESULT of dominance, it isn't dominance itself. The organization may be a hierarchy or dominance rank as in (2), but abbreviation of 'dominance rank' to 'dominance' is confusing ('rank' is better) because it implies that dominance is an attribute of which individuals have more or less ('How much dominance does this individual have?). This problem is clearest in the common usage 'A dominant individual', meaning 'a high-ranking individual'. The individual is only dominant relative to the other, specific members of its group, not in any intrinsic or absolute way: dominance is always relative. We all tend to use 'dominant' (and 'subordinate') in this way casually, but Hinde pointed out the confusion (J. Social Biol. Struct. 1, 27, 1978; a more accessible version of the same argument is in Deag 1977, Anim. Behav. 25, 465) and recommended strongly that 'dominant' should only be used for relationships within dyads. Dominance aggression in sense (1) then, is a reasonable use of the term - although I leave to the dog people the question of how they can distinguish it from other forms of aggression. Yours assertively, Mike From: IN%"marie.haskell@bbsrc.ac.uk" "Marie Haskell" 30-MAY-1997 03:43:43.01 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Australian schools Dear Lesley, No doubt you will get a number of replies from the people concerned themselves, but the University of Melbourne has an Animal Science Dept., which is closely connected to the state Agriculture Dept. The person that I did my PhD with Dr. Geoff Hutson is there working on pig behaviour. The University of New England, Armidale, NSW has a big animal science dept., with some interest in applied issues. Judith Blackshaw of the University of Queensland is intesrested in pigs, aggressive dogs and amongst other things. There are probably a few others, but I'm a bit out of touch with these things these days! Hope this is of some use! Best wishes Marie Haskell From: IN%"gfb1@email.psu.edu" "G. F. Barbato" 30-MAY-1997 08:18:14.20 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: 3-D's Dominance, Dominance, Dominance At 09:58 AM 5/30/97 +0000, you wrote: >Dear Chris et al. > >> there appear to be three different usages of the word >> and/or concept of Dominance. (1) Dehasse Joel is using the word to >> describe the nature of potentially injurious and spontaneous attacks by >> dogs on other dogs or humans, (2) Nigel Goodwin is using Dominance as a >> label for a rank order based on recordings of agonistic or aggressive >> interactions and (3) my own use (which is, I believe, the most widely >> supported amongst applied ethologists and socio-biologists) which relates >> to the social organisation observed within almost all animal groups that >> confers priority of access to individuals when resources are limited. > >Well, I wouldn't put it in any of these three ways, although the way >I would put it (which I would claim is the majority view, but then I >would, wouldn't I?) is compatible with all three. Dominance is a >relationship between two individuals, in which one, the dominant, >constrains the behaviour of the other, the subordinate. at the risk of turning to semantics (as Chris S noted), i always recall the etymological origin of the term 'aggression', which is from the latin "ad gradus (sic)" --- meaning "to step towards". which echoes mikes nice summary of the hindean view. however, something i seem to recall from my oldengolden graduate days of recording paired quail encounters revolved around the idea that the 'dominant' individual did not truly 'constrain' the subordinate, but rather the subordinate defused further expression of 'dominance' (aggression?) by behaving in a subordinate fashion. fights occurred when neither individual would display submissive behaviors, OR when the 'dominant' would not terminate a contest in response to submissive behavior. this would suggest at least 2 separate mechanisms for dominance/aggressive behaviors and is reminiscent of high ranking male quail (based on pair encounters), that had difficulty completing mating, due to their propensity to not respond to submissive postures.... have these ideas fallen out of favor? were they too 'semantic'?? or is my memory failing (again)??? btw -- before my memory fails completely.... all this talk of dominance rank urges me to shout to the highest hills... "Remember Schjelderup-Ebbe!!!" later, guy G. F. Barbato Phone: (814)-865-4481 Graduate Program in Genetics FAX: (814)-865-5691 Dept. Poultry Science Lab: (814)-865-3189 Penn State University Email: gfb1@psu.edu University Park, PA 16802 http://ps235.cas.psu.edu/ From: IN%"k9acad@iafrica.com" 30-MAY-1997 08:33:40.80 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Neuticles for dogs! Does anyone know who manufactures Neuticles (testicle implants) or where they can be obtained? Thank you in anticipation. ********************************************************** NAME : GLYNNE ANDERSON ADDRESS: Canine Academy 32 Hospital Rd., Hillcrest 3610, KwaZula Natal, South Africa. TEL/FAX: (031) 751958 E-mail : k9acad@iafrica.com ********************************************************** From: IN%"jiracka@ids.pl" 30-MAY-1997 15:59:08.78 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: "Social stress" in dogs and cats Dear Ethologists, I have always heard this term in the context of food animals and wonder how it is in the case of companion animals. A colleague of mine who is working at the Warsaw Animal Shelter has observed that when certain number of dogs kept in the shelter is exceeded the staff finds in the morning a substantial number of dogs killed. The shelter is designed for about 400 dogs, but usually 600 are kept there and it is still OK. If the number comes to about 650 the killing occurs. I wonder whether this could be attributed to the "social stress". Thank you in advance, Joanna Iracka `[1;35;46mNet-Tamer V 1.05.1 - Test Drive From: IN%"joseph.stookey@usask.ca" 30-MAY-1997 15:59:41.94 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Forwarded mail.... Dear All, The following request was sent to me. If anyone can respond to this request please send the message directly to Dr. Rozenfeld at his e-mail address listed. He is not currently subscribed to the applied-ethology listserver. Remember, if you want to send a message to the entire network you must address the message to applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca If you are having trouble subscribing or unsubscribing send a message directly to me at joseph.stookey@sask.usask.ca Joe ======================== Joseph M. Stookey Department of Herd Medicine and Theriogenology Western College of Veterinary Medicine University of Saskatchewan Saskatoon, Saskatchewan S7N 5B4 Canada ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 09:35:19 +0200 From: "Francine M. Rozenfeld" To: joseph.stookey@sask.usask.ca Dear Doctor Stookey, I applied for a course on etholgy for students in veterinary. Therefore, I am looking for some examples of the behavioural effect of domestication. Dr. Suzanne Robert suggested that I send a message on applied-ethology request@sask.usask.ca but I did not succeed in the connexion. I would be very grateful if you could help me. I am studying chemical communication in rodents thus not on applied ethology at all. I need the information soon because I will be "submitted" to a selection commitee next month. Yours sincerely Dr Francine Rozenfeld Behavioural Biology of Mammals CP 160/12 Free University of Brussels 50, av. F. Roosevelt 1050 Brussels Belgium