From: IN%"joseph.stookey@usask.ca" 15-NOV-2002 09:07:05.94 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Vets & animal welfare Dear All, The following message was sent to me by Caroline Hewson. I am forwarding it to you at her request. If any of you have trouble posting to the applied-ethology network, please contact me and we can help try to solve your e-mail problem or post the message for you. Joe =================================================================================== Dear All, I am writing to solicit your comments about the contribution of veterinarians to animal welfare. I would like to quote the comments in an article that I am writing for the Canadian Veterinary Journal. I am a vet myself and do research in companion animal welfare at the Atlantic Veterinary College, Prince Edward Island, Canada. I would be very grateful to receive brief suggestions as to (i) the main way in which the veterinary profession fails to serve animal welfare, (ii) the chief contribution that vets could make to animal welfare (in addition to health management). If replying, please also mention (iii) any qualification that you may have in animal welfare (e.g. grad. student, PhD, etc.), (iv) which country you are basing your suggestions on, (v) whether you would prefer to be quoted anonymously. With thanks and kind regards, Caroline Hewson Caroline J Hewson MVB PhD Sir James Dunn Animal Welfare Centre Atlantic Veterinary College 550 University Avenue Charlottetown Prince Edward Island Canada C1A 4P3 (Website: www.upei.ca/awc) E-mail: chewson@upei.ca Tel: +1 902 566-0806 From: IN%"kersti@ava.com.au" "Kersti Seksel" 17-NOV-2002 04:27:01.72 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: second call for papers SECOND CALL FOR PAPERS 2003 4th INTERNATIONAL VETERINARY BEHAVIOUR MEETING 18-20 AUGUST, 2003 - CALOUNDRA, QUEENSLAND, AUSTRALIA A reminder that IVBM is pleased to announce the Call for Papers for the 2003 Scientific Sessions to be held in Caloundra, sunny Queensland in Australia from 18-20 August 2003. We hope that many of you will take the time to submit materials so we can all benefit from the research findings and expertise of others. Abstracts must be RECEIVED by the Program Chair NO LATER THAN December 1, 2002. Submissions may be sent in the following way: * Three (3) hard copies and 1 PC-formatted diskette mailed to the address below, or * Faxed to 6 12 7 3219 5191 or * sent as in e-mail as an attached document in MS Word file Information must be in the following format: Complete title of presentation Name(s) of author(s) including degrees and specialty board certifications, with the presenting author listed FIRST Affiliation: address of presenting author (street address, department, institution, city, state, zip code, country, office phone number, and email address) Presentation format: Paper only, Poster only, or Prefer paper, but will present as poster if not selected for paper presentation Type of abstract: Original research, Clinical report, Retrospective study, or Topic review. Abstract: minimum of 150 words, maximum of 500 words, single-spaced, 12 font: Proposals must consist of previously unpublished material Send abstracts to Dr. Gaille Perry, IVBM Program Chair; 3 Acorus Place, Sunnybank Queensland 4109 Australia email: gaille@uq.net.au If selected, only the person listed as primary author on the abstract can make the presentation. Please do not submit abstracts if you will not be in attendance at the meeting. In order to balance the program, the program committee may limit the number of presentations given by a single individual. It is the responsibility of those submitting proposals to confirm receipt of material by the December deadline and to submit it in the proper format in order to receive full consideration. We look forward to seeing you all in sunny Australia. * No abstracts in other formats will be accepted. * No anonymous abstracts will be accepted. * Participants will be notified by 1 February 2003 of the selections. * Manuscripts will then be due no later than 1 March 2003. Details will be included with notification. Applicants whose abstracts are selected for talks or posters will receive complimentary registration to the 2003 IVB meeting Dr Kersti Seksel BVSc (hons) MRCVS MA (hons) FACVSc (Animal Behaviour) Dipl ACVB Registered Specialist in Animal Behaviour 55 Ethel Street Seaforth NSW 2092 Australia Ph 612 9949 8511 Fax 612 9949 6364 From: IN%"sheila@scallywags.force9.co.uk" "Sheila Harper" 18-NOV-2002 16:42:07.77 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: terminology Out of interest, I, unfortunately, have inadvertantly used flooding in the training of a dog. It is not to be advised, as its effects can be so extreme that the animal can display signs of extreme fear and anguish and can shut down. It does not mean that the fear disappears from the animal, only that it is so distressed that it cannot react. Although outward signs suggest that the animal is coping with the fear and that it diminishes, stress levels rocket and the animal is, in fact, not able to deal with the fear. This method only deals with the symptoms on a superficial level, and does not deal with the root cause, unlike the other methods mentioned. I would NEVER use it intentionally. Sheila Harper Scallywags Canine Education Centre www.scallywags.f9.co.uk In a message dated 11/14/2002 4:25:34 PM Mountain Standard Time, Gerflannigan@aol.com writes: . Flooding, systematic desensitization and implosion (only in people -similar to flooding) are all forms of desensitization. Actually, the learning literature indicates that flooding is very different from desensitization. Flooding is the prolonged exposure of the subject to a fear or anxiety producing stimulus (usually not at an attenuated intensity) until the fear diminishes. Flooding does not involve gradual exposure or have the goal of not eliciting the fearful response (characteristics of desensitization). In fact, Kazdin (1994) describes flooding as usually eliciting high levels of anxiety, which is why flooding can be dangerous to the animal, and is often difficult to implement as the exposure must continue long enough for the fear/anxiety to diminish. If this doesn't happen, the fear can actually be exacerbated. Strapping a saddle on a naive horse and letting him buck and try to get it off until he stops is an example of flooding. While habituation certainly occurs spontaneously, or 'naturally', situations can also be set up to make it occur, and thereby use it as a behavior modificaiton technique. best, Suzanne Hetts, Ph.D. Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist Animal Behavior Associates, Inc. Littleton, CO www.animalbehaviorassociates.com From: IN%"sheila@scallywags.force9.co.uk" "Sheila Harper" 18-NOV-2002 16:42:18.48 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: vets & animal welfare Dear Caroline I have been running my own canine education centre in England for almost ten years. I run courses on animal behaviour for vets, behaviourists and other professionals, and lecture in Europe and the USA. I have a BEd and a BA. I feel that the main areas vets in England are failing to serve animal welfare are in their lack of knowledge of behaviour, animal communication (also the area of Calming Signals as studied by the Norwegian Turid Rugaas) and stress in particular, as well as their understanding of learning theory. These are vital areas essential to provide for the psychological well being of animals in their care. An understanding of these areas particularly in their handling of these animals would be of particular benefit. My own vet is gradually becoming better-versed in several of these areas and the benefits to companion animals is notable. Hoping this is of benefit to you. Best wishes, Sheila Harper Scallywags Canine Education Center www.scallywags.f9.co.uk Dear All, The following message was sent to me by Caroline Hewson. I am forwarding it to you at her request. If any of you have trouble posting to the applied-ethology network, please contact me and we can help try to solve your e-mail problem or post the message for you. Joe =================================================================================== Dear All, I am writing to solicit your comments about the contribution of veterinarians to animal welfare. I would like to quote the comments in an article that I am writing for the Canadian Veterinary Journal. I am a vet myself and do research in companion animal welfare at the Atlantic Veterinary College, Prince Edward Island, Canada. I would be very grateful to receive brief suggestions as to (i) the main way in which the veterinary profession fails to serve animal welfare, (ii) the chief contribution that vets could make to animal welfare (in addition to health management). If replying, please also mention (iii) any qualification that you may have in animal welfare (e.g. grad. student, PhD, etc.), (iv) which country you are basing your suggestions on, (v) whether you would prefer to be quoted anonymously. With thanks and kind regards, Caroline Hewson Caroline J Hewson MVB PhD Sir James Dunn Animal Welfare Centre Atlantic Veterinary College 550 University Avenue Charlottetown Prince Edward Island Canada C1A 4P3 (Website: www.upei.ca/awc) E-mail: chewson@upei.ca Tel: +1 902 566-0806 From: IN%"pdic@btclick.com" "Pig Disease Information Centre UK" 19-NOV-2002 05:24:29.90 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Ethology Posting" CC: Subj: RE: Vets & animal welfare - role of OIE Vets have of course always contributed to animal welfare via controlling and treating disease. There are many ways of suffering, and disease can be one of the worst - animals animals may of course "suffer to death". Internationally, the key veterinary body active in this area is the World Organisation for Animal Health - originally called The Office International des Epizooties and still popularly known as OIE. Most countries in the world are members, and represented via their Chief Veterinaray Officers and State Veterinary Services. This year, OIE has taken on an additional responsibility, in addition to controlling epidemic diseases. The new remit is directly and specifically "Animal welfare". Their press release on this topic can be seen at: http://www.oie.int/eng/press/a_020415.htm Best Wishes Mike Meredith *=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=* Pig Disease Information Centre 4, New Close Farm Business Park Bar Road, Lolworth, Cambs., CB3 8DS, U.K. Email: pdic@btclick.com www.PIGHEALTH.COM Members of AHIS (Animal Health Information Specialists) UK & Ireland *=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*+=*+=* ============================================================================ > Dear All, > I am writing to solicit your comments about the contribution of > veterinarians to animal welfare. > > I would like to quote the comments in an article that I am writing for > the Canadian Veterinary Journal. I am a vet myself and do > research in companion animal welfare at the Atlantic Veterinary > College, Prince Edward Island, Canada. > I would be very grateful to receive brief suggestions as to > (i) the main way in which the veterinary profession fails to serve > animal welfare, > (ii) the chief contribution that vets could make to animal > welfare (in addition to health management). From: IN%"appleby@petbcent.demon.co.uk" "David Appleby" 22-NOV-2002 07:48:47.90 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: vets & animal welfare Dear Sheila, You have sited ‘Calming Signals as studied by the Norwegian Turid Rugaas’. Has this hypothesis yet been subjected to scientific scrutiny or is it still her opinion? I’m concerned more about the explanation about the explanation of mechanisms involved rather than the observation of manifestation. Best wishes, David Appleby. -----Original Message----- From: Sheila Harper [mailto:sheila@scallywags.force9.co.uk] Sent: 18 November 2002 22:33 To: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Subject: Re: vets & animal welfare Dear Caroline I have been running my own canine education centre in England for almost ten years. I run courses on animal behaviour for vets, behaviourists and other professionals, and lecture in Europe and the USA. I have a BEd and a BA. I feel that the main areas vets in England are failing to serve animal welfare are in their lack of knowledge of behaviour, animal communication (also the area of Calming Signals as studied by the Norwegian Turid Rugaas) and stress in particular, as well as their understanding of learning theory. These are vital areas essential to provide for the psychological well being of animals in their care. An understanding of these areas particularly in their handling of these animals would be of particular benefit. My own vet is gradually becoming better-versed in several of these areas and the benefits to companion animals is notable. Hoping this is of benefit to you. Best wishes, Sheila Harper Scallywags Canine Education Center www.scallywags.f9.co.uk Dear All, The following message was sent to me by Caroline Hewson. I am forwarding it to you at her request. If any of you have trouble posting to the applied-ethology network, please contact me and we can help try to solve your e-mail problem or post the message for you. Joe ============================================================================ ======= Dear All, I am writing to solicit your comments about the contribution of veterinarians to animal welfare. I would like to quote the comments in an article that I am writing for the Canadian Veterinary Journal. I am a vet myself and do research in companion animal welfare at the Atlantic Veterinary College, Prince Edward Island, Canada. I would be very grateful to receive brief suggestions as to (i) the main way in which the veterinary profession fails to serve animal welfare, (ii) the chief contribution that vets could make to animal welfare (in addition to health management). If replying, please also mention (iii) any qualification that you may have in animal welfare (e.g. grad. student, PhD, etc.), (iv) which country you are basing your suggestions on, (v) whether you would prefer to be quoted anonymously. With thanks and kind regards, Caroline Hewson Caroline J Hewson MVB PhD Sir James Dunn Animal Welfare Centre Atlantic Veterinary College 550 University Avenue Charlottetown Prince Edward Island Canada C1A 4P3 (Website: www.upei.ca/awc ) E-mail: chewson@upei.ca Tel: +1 902 566-0806 From: IN%"slindsay@ix.netcom.com" "Steven Lindsay" 22-NOV-2002 10:03:51.93 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Science articles Hello, Several articles of interest concerning the origin of the dog, with one examining the effect of domestication on cognition, are published in the current issue of Science: Canine Evolution: A Shaggy Dog History. Elizabeth Pennisi Genetic Evidence for an East Asian Origin of Domestic Dogs Peter Savolainen, Ya-ping Zhang, Jing Luo, Joakim Lundeberg, and Thomas Leitner Science 2002 298: 1610-1613. (in Reports) Ancient DNA Evidence for Old World Origin of New World Dogs Jennifer A. Leonard, Robert K. Wayne, Jane Wheeler, Ra=FAl Valadez, Sonia Guill=E9n, and Carles Vil=E0 Science 2002 298: 1613-1616. (in Reports) The Domestication of Social Cognition in Dogs Brian Hare, Michelle Brown, Christina Williamson, and Michael Tomasello Science 2002 298: 1634-1636. (in Reports) -----------------=20 Steven R. Lindsay =20 From: IN%"psimonet@petalk.org" "Patricia Simonet" 22-NOV-2002 11:07:44.91 To: IN%"appleby@petbcent.demon.co.uk" "David Appleby", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Calming Signals > Calming Signals Hello David, It is my understanding that =B3Calming Signals=B2 are the same as displacement behaviours. I have been unable to find any published work on calming signal= s (aside from Turid Rugaas=B9 book and video). Trisha ----------------------------------------- PeTalk - because our pets matter Patricia Simonet Animal Behaviorist 604 South Montavilla Drive Spokane, WA 99224 www.petalk.org psimonet@petalk.org (509) 456-8970 ----------------------------------------- From: IN%"Shetts@aol.com" 22-NOV-2002 12:26:11.35 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: calming signals If one looks at Turid's list of 'calming signals', they actually include a number of different types of behaviors. Displacement behaivors and submissive (or appeasement) behaviors make up the vast majority. There's also a few avoidance behaviors in her list, I believe. While I don't think there's much question that submissive/appeasement behaviors have communicative value, I've never seen any scientific, objective research documenting that displacement behaviors do. Nor have I seen that to be the case in my many hundreds of hours observing dogs. I saw a tape once of a person yawning at her dog in the waiting room of veterinary clinic to calm him down. After a period of several minutes , the dog indeed laid down and relaxed. The presenter attributed this to the calming yawns given by the owner. Obviously, the fallacy in this type of 'documentation' is that iit is also possible (in my opinion likely) the dog would have calmed down on his own, just with the passage of time. Whether or not displacement activities have communicative value would be an interesting research project. Perhaps it's not all or nothing - maybe some do and others don't. And its also possible that if they do have communicative value, that they communicate not calm, but conflict, which is usually what triggers their expression in the first place. best, Suzanne Hetts, Ph.D. Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist Animal Behavior Associates, Inc. Littleton, CO www.animalbehaviorassociates.com From: IN%"noofies@tir.com" 22-NOV-2002 13:00:13.53 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: calming signals Two cents from a layperson..... I rescue, foster, and train deaf dogs (and have 4 of my own) and I also rehabilitate puppymill rescue dogs. I use Rugaas' 'calming signals' with both groups of dogs with good results. Whether the yawning and lip licking are themselves communicative or their alteration of my posture, facial expression, or tension level is then communicative, I find the dogs respond more quickly when I use them than when I don't. Nancy Muller On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:25:24 -0500 (EST) Shetts@aol.com wrote: > If one looks at Turid's list of 'calming > signals', they actually include a > number of different types of behaviors. > Displacement behaivors and > submissive (or appeasement) behaviors make up > the vast majority. There's also > a few avoidance behaviors in her list, I > believe. > While I don't think there's much question that > submissive/appeasement > behaviors have communicative value, I've never > seen any scientific, objective > research documenting that displacement > behaviors do. Nor have I seen that to > be the case in my many hundreds of hours > observing dogs. > I saw a tape once of a person yawning at her > dog in the waiting room of > veterinary clinic to calm him down. After a > period of several minutes , the > dog indeed laid down and relaxed. The > presenter attributed this to the > calming yawns given by the owner. Obviously, > the fallacy in this type of > 'documentation' is that iit is also possible > (in my opinion likely) the dog > would have calmed down on his own, just with > the passage of time. > Whether or not displacement activities have > communicative value would be an > interesting research project. Perhaps it's not > all or nothing - maybe some > do and others don't. And its also possible that > if they do have communicative > value, that they communicate not calm, but > conflict, which is usually what > triggers their expression in the first place. > best, > Suzanne Hetts, Ph.D. > Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist > Animal Behavior Associates, Inc. > Littleton, CO > www.animalbehaviorassociates.com > From: IN%"wickens@ufaw.org.uk" "Stephen Wickens" 22-NOV-2002 13:17:24.05 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"ANIMAL-WELFARE@JISCMAIL.ac.uk", IN%"animal-enrichment@yahoogroups.com", IN%"ANIMAL-BEHAVIOUR@JISCMAIL.ac.uk" CC: Subj: UFAW International Symposium 2003 - REMINDER - Early-booking discount deadline Science in the Service of Animal Welfare The UFAW International Symposium, 2nd to 4th April 2003, Edinburgh, UK 3rd Announcement, call for registration and reminder about early-booking discounted registration fee The Universities Federation for Animal Welfare (UFAW) is organising a three-day international symposium on "Science in the Service of Animal Welfare" in Edinburgh, UK, on 2nd to 4th April 2003. The aim is to bring together leading authorities from around the world to present papers on the science of welfare assessment, the use of science in ethical decisions and for promoting animal welfare, and public understanding of and influence over welfare standards. It is hoped that the symposium will stimulate discussion with a view to identifying future priorities for research, education, and practical/policy developments. The closing date for the early-booking discounted registration fee is fast approaching; therefore, we would like to remind you that to qualify for the reduced registration fee of £150.00 we must receive your registration form and payment by Monday 16th December 2002. After this date, the registration fee will be £175.00. There will be a limited number of places available for students at the reduced rate of £75.00 per person; these will be allocated on a first-come-first-served basis. Prices include attendance at the symposium for three days, lunch and refreshments. Outline of the Programme: A copy of the programme outline, as of 19th November 2002, can be found at the end of this email. Venues / Further Information: The symposium will be held at the George Square Lecture Theatre, George Square, Edinburgh, UK. Accommodation will be available at Edinburgh University's Pollock Halls of Residence. We are hoping to arrange a welcome reception at the National Gallery of Scotland on the evening of Wednesday 2nd April and a symposium banquet at the Royal Museum, Edinburgh, on the evening of Thursday 3rd April. Our aim is for this symposium to be a valuable, fascinating and memorable event, and we hope that animal welfare scientists, veterinarians, biologists, ethicists, lawyers, animal welfare policy makers, and others with interests in the field from around the world will attend. A limited number of subsidised places will be available for students. We plan to publish the proceedings as an issue of the quarterly scientific journal Animal Welfare. Accommodation is available for delegates at Pollock Halls of Residence on 1st, 2nd and 3rd April. Single rooms are available for £84.00 per person for three nights and single en-suite rooms for £130.50 per person for three nights; these rates include a full Scottish breakfast. Attendance at the symposium banquet will cost £35.00 per person. If you would like a registration form, please email me at the following address: scioff@ufaw.org.uk. We look forward to hearing from you in due course and to meeting you in Edinburgh next year. With best wishes Samantha Mills BSc MSc UFAW Scientific Officer Universities Federation for Animal Welfare (UFAW) The Old School, Brewhouse Hill, Wheathampstead, Herts, AL4 8AN, UK Tel +44 (0) 1582 831 818 Fax +44 (0) 1582 831 414 Email scioff@ufaw.org.uk Web www.ufaw.org.uk The programme is still being developed but, as of 19th November 2002, the following papers have been confirmed: Theme A: The science of welfare assessment Professor Marian Dawkins, University of Oxford, A review of behavioural approaches to the assessment of animal welfare. Professor Paul Flecknell, University of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Pain assessment. Professor Linda Keeling, Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences, Skara, The application of scientific advances to the welfare of farm animals. Dr Mike Mendl, University of Bristol, Welfare assessment: inferences from cognitive capacities. Dr Klaas Kramer, Free University, Amsterdam, The use of radio-telemetry in laboratory animal welfare research. Dr Chris Sherwin, UFAW Hume Fellow, University of Bristol, Methods of investigation of ideal housing for laboratory mice. Dr Jonathan Cooper, University of Lincoln, Fundamental research into animal welfare e.g. consumer demand theory and behavioural priorities. Dr Margit Bak Jensen, Danish Institute of Agricultural Sciences, Use of demand functions to assess behavioural needs. Dr Georgia Mason and Dr Ros Clubb, University of Oxford, Lifestyle in the wild predicts captive welfare in the Carnivora. Professor John Webster, University of Bristol, Welfare assessment: inferences from clinical observation. Theme B: Using science in ethical decisions Professor David Mellor, Massey University, New Zealand, Using science to support ethical decisions promoting humane livestock slaughter and pest control. Professor Peter Sandøe, Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University, Denmark, Scientific uncertainty; how should it be handled in relation to scientific advice regarding animal welfare issues? Dr Andrew Rowan, Humane Society of the United States, The relationship between science and philosophy in determining animal welfare. Dr Jonathan Reynolds, The Game Conservancy Trust, Trade-offs between welfare, conservation, utility and economics in wildlife management; a review of conflicts, compromises and regulation. Dr Anna Olsson, Institute for Molecular and Cell Biology, Porto, Portugal, Ethical decisions concerning animal biotechnology: what is the role of animal welfare science? Theme C: The application and transfer of scientific advances to the care of animals Professor Irene Pepperberg, Brandeis University and MIT Media Lab, Meeting cognitive requirements: enrichment materials for captive and companion animals. Professor Alistair Lawrence, Scottish Agricultural College, Welfare and animal breeding. Dr Mike Appleby, Humane Society of the United States, Science is not enough: how do we ensure implementation of advances from animal welfare science? Professor David Morton, University of Birmingham, Aversion as an approach to determine humane methods of gaseous anaesthesia and killing. Dr Lesley King, University of Oxford and Humane Society of the United States, Welfare standards for animal use in education: an international perspective. Dr Bryan Jones, Roslin Institute, Midlothian, Feather pecking in poultry: the application of science in a search for practical solutions. Theme D: Public understanding of, and power over, animal welfare standards Dr David Bayvel, MAF Biosecurity Authority, New Zealand, Science-based animal welfare standards: the international role of the Office International des Epizooties. Mr Mike Radford, University of Aberdeen, The impact of animal welfare science on public policy making and legal regulation. Professor James Serpell, University of Pennsylvania, Factors influencing attitudes towards animal welfare. Dr John Savory, Scottish Agricultural College, Laying hen welfare standards: a classic case of "power to the people". From: IN%"slindsay@ix.netcom.com" "Steven Lindsay" 22-NOV-2002 13:24:48.65 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Calming Signals The significance of cut-off actions, what Rugaas seems to have in mind by =B3calming signals=B2, was first described by Chance (1962). In the dog, cut-off actions may involve incomplete escape movements (head or body turning), care-seeking behavior (pawing and licking movements), or various conflict-related displacement behaviors. The cut-off action has been referred to as a "compromise" movement by Tinbergen and defined by him as a "movement caused by ambivalent motivation ...between two conflicting movements" (1964:216). In the case of agonistic encounters, the cut-off is an expressive compromise between fighting and fleeing. The cut-off signal does not appear to signify submission, but announces a socially neutral opportunity for opponents to disengage without fighting. In some situations, the cut-off may function as calculated =B3dare=B2 to undermine a potential adversary=B9s interest in launching an actual challenge and fight, thereby curtailing the aggressive adventure before it escalates into a more serious conflict (Fox, 1969). Leyhausen (1973) appears to have had such a peacemaking function in mind when he wrote about these general effects of cut-off actions: =B3Such behavior, however, indicates that, on the one hand, an animal is not prepared to yield but also that, on the other, it is not for its part in an aggressive mood. =20 Such a gesture of severing contact contains an offer of peace as well as a warning to=20 the other not to push matters to the limit, and this is the effect it often produces, i.e., in=20 many animals there are appropriate receptive IRMs =B2 (1973:304-305). Cut-off signals appear to smooth over agonistic tensions through mutual compromise, perhaps by producing a pacifying effect in both the receiver an= d sender of such signals. In effect, cut-off signals set an occasion (as pointed out by Tinbergen) for compromise between potential adversaries. One possible function of the cut-off signal is to momentarily suspend or decrease sensory contact with the arousing social stimulus; thereby breakin= g off or reducing stimulation (threshold modulation). The effect of breaking off stimulation might decrease flight-fight conflict (stress reduction), decrease the risk of overt fighting (anger reduction) or decrease the risk of running away and evoking a chase attack (fear reduction)--a possible source of reinforcement for such behavior when faced with similar social circumstances in the future. Arguably, given that cut-off actions perform such modulatory functions, one might reasonably suggest that it may also exert a secondary relaxing effect via stress, anger, and fear reduction. Alternatively cut-off signals may actively produce an unconditioned calming effect on both the sender and receiver of such signals via innate mechanisms, but such an effect remains to be experimentally demonstrated. References Chance MRA (1962) An interpretation of some agonistic postures: the role o= f =B3cut-off=B2 acts and postures. Symposia of the Zoological Society of London, 8:71-89. Fox MW (1969). The anatomy of aggression and its ritualization in canidae: A developmental and comparative study. Behaviour, 35:243-258. Leyhausen P (1973). The biology of expression and impression. In BA Tonki= n (Trans) Motivation of Human and Animal Behavior: A Ethological View. Ne= w York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Co. Tinbergen N (1964). The evolution of signaling devices. In W Etkin (Ed). Social Behavior and Organization Among Vertebrates. Chicago, IL: Univ of Chicago Press. ------------------------- Steven R. Lindsay Canine Behavioral Services P.O. Box # 91=20 Newtown Square, PA 19073 Ph & Fax (610) 355-7677 slindsay@dogbehavior.com ___________________________________________________ HANDBOOK OF APPLIED DOG BEHAVIOR & TRAINING Vol. 1, Adaptation and Learning (2000) Vol. 2, Etiology and Assessment (2001) Vol. 3, Procedures and Protocols (due 2003) Iowa State University Press/Blackwell Publishing on 11/22/02 12:06 PM, Patricia Simonet at psimonet@petalk.org wrote: Calming Signals Hello David, It is my understanding that =B3Calming Signals=B2 are the same as displacement behaviours. I have been unable to find any published work on calming signal= s (aside from Turid Rugaas=B9 book and video). Trisha ----------------------------------------- PeTalk - because our pets matter Patricia Simonet Animal Behaviorist 604 South Montavilla Drive Spokane, WA 99224 www.petalk.org psimonet@petalk.org (509) 456-8970 ----------------------------------------- From: IN%"slindsay@ix.netcom.com" "Steven Lindsay" 22-NOV-2002 17:25:56.81 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: calming signals Merely evoking an orienting response can exert a decelerating (calming?) effect on the heart rate (Grahm and Clifton, 1966). Whether such actions as yawning or licking possess special calming properties beyond that of obtaining and holding the dog's attention can be tested by comparing the dog's response to calming signals versus its response to relatively neutral attention-controlling stimuli lacking obvious "calming" properties beyond that produced by the evocation of an orienting or attending response. For example, a simple experiment might involve videotaping several dogs receiving the calming signal at various points during a set period of time, while at other times receiving neutral auditory stimulation or visual signals not considered to possess obvious calming properties. Alternatively, several groups could be studied: (1) receiving the calming signal, (2) receiving the attention-controlling signals, or (3) not receiving any stimulation from a passive experimenter. The source and type of stimulation should be concealed so that observers of the video can only see the dog and its reaction to the various signals presented from behind a blind. Given that calming signals presumably produce an observable change in behavior, observers should be able to detect calming effects evoked by the calming signals and differentiate these responses from merely attention-controlling stimuli not attributed with calming properties. A design variation might involve having the practitioner of calming signals precisely describe in advance the sort of responses that one should expect to observe as the result of presenting the calming signals. The observers could than count and catalog the responses observed on the videotape, allowing one to compare their relative rate of occurrence in the presence of the putative calming signal versus their occurrence in the presence of merely attention-controlling stimuli. Another experimental design might involve some mildly stressful procedure (e.g., venipuncture--see Hennessy and colleagues (1998). Several dogs could be exposed to different conditions of stimulation for a brief period of time after blood is taken: (1) receiving the calming signals, (2) receiving the attention-controlling signal, (3) receiving petting, (4) not receiving any stimulation from a passive experimenter. Petting has been shown by Hennessy and colleagues to significantly attenuate cortisol output in such situations, providing a basis of comparison for evaluating the putative effects of calming signals versus attention-controlling stimulation on mild stress. I'm sure that numerous experiments could be devised to fairly evaluate the efficacy of calming signals to produce (or not) a calming or stress-reducing effect. Reference Grahm FK, Clifton RK (1966). Heart-rate change as a component of the orienting response. Psych Bull, 65:305-320. Hennessy MB, Williams MT, Miller DD, Douglas CW, Voith VL (1998). Influence of male and female petters on plasma cortisol and behaviour: Can human interaction reduce the stress of dogs in a public animal shelter? Appl Ani Behav Sci, 61:63-77. ----------------- Steven R. Lindsay on 11/22/02 1:59 PM, noofies@tir.com at noofies@tir.com wrote: > Two cents from a layperson..... > > I rescue, foster, and train deaf dogs (and have 4 of my own) and I also > rehabilitate puppymill rescue dogs. I use Rugaas' 'calming signals' with both > groups of dogs with good results. Whether the yawning and lip licking are > themselves communicative or their alteration of my posture, facial expression, > or tension level is then communicative, I find the dogs respond more quickly > when I use them than when I don't. > > Nancy Muller > > On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:25:24 -0500 (EST) Shetts@aol.com wrote: > >> If one looks at Turid's list of 'calming >> signals', they actually include a >> number of different types of behaviors. >> Displacement behaivors and >> submissive (or appeasement) behaviors make up >> the vast majority. There's also >> a few avoidance behaviors in her list, I >> believe. >> While I don't think there's much question that >> submissive/appeasement >> behaviors have communicative value, I've never >> seen any scientific, objective >> research documenting that displacement >> behaviors do. Nor have I seen that to >> be the case in my many hundreds of hours >> observing dogs. >> I saw a tape once of a person yawning at her >> dog in the waiting room of >> veterinary clinic to calm him down. After a >> period of several minutes , the >> dog indeed laid down and relaxed. The >> presenter attributed this to the >> calming yawns given by the owner. Obviously, >> the fallacy in this type of >> 'documentation' is that iit is also possible >> (in my opinion likely) the dog >> would have calmed down on his own, just with >> the passage of time. >> Whether or not displacement activities have >> communicative value would be an >> interesting research project. Perhaps it's not >> all or nothing - maybe some >> do and others don't. And its also possible that >> if they do have communicative >> value, that they communicate not calm, but >> conflict, which is usually what >> triggers their expression in the first place. >> best, >> Suzanne Hetts, Ph.D. >> Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist >> Animal Behavior Associates, Inc. >> Littleton, CO >> www.animalbehaviorassociates.com From: IN%"rudy.demeester@pi.be" "rudy de meester" 23-NOV-2002 02:35:23.72 To: IN%"slindsay@ix.netcom.com" "'Steven Lindsay'", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: calming signals Some of these behaviours are shown by the dogs in stressful conditions were no other dogs or living creatures are present. It might be interesting to see if these behaviours act as a " broadcasting" signal influencing receivers in other situations. -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Steven Lindsay [mailto:slindsay@ix.netcom.com] Verzonden: zaterdag 23 november 2002 0:26 Aan: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Onderwerp: Re: calming signals Merely evoking an orienting response can exert a decelerating (calming?) effect on the heart rate (Grahm and Clifton, 1966). Whether such actions as yawning or licking possess special calming properties beyond that of obtaining and holding the dog's attention can be tested by comparing the dog's response to calming signals versus its response to relatively neutral attention-controlling stimuli lacking obvious "calming" properties beyond that produced by the evocation of an orienting or attending response. For example, a simple experiment might involve videotaping several dogs receiving the calming signal at various points during a set period of time, while at other times receiving neutral auditory stimulation or visual signals not considered to possess obvious calming properties. Alternatively, several groups could be studied: (1) receiving the calming signal, (2) receiving the attention-controlling signals, or (3) not receiving any stimulation from a passive experimenter. The source and type of stimulation should be concealed so that observers of the video can only see the dog and its reaction to the various signals presented from behind a blind. Given that calming signals presumably produce an observable change in behavior, observers should be able to detect calming effects evoked by the calming signals and differentiate these responses from merely attention-controlling stimuli not attributed with calming properties. A design variation might involve having the practitioner of calming signals precisely describe in advance the sort of responses that one should expect to observe as the result of presenting the calming signals. The observers could than count and catalog the responses observed on the videotape, allowing one to compare their relative rate of occurrence in the presence of the putative calming signal versus their occurrence in the presence of merely attention-controlling stimuli. Another experimental design might involve some mildly stressful procedure (e.g., venipuncture--see Hennessy and colleagues (1998). Several dogs could be exposed to different conditions of stimulation for a brief period of time after blood is taken: (1) receiving the calming signals, (2) receiving the attention-controlling signal, (3) receiving petting, (4) not receiving any stimulation from a passive experimenter. Petting has been shown by Hennessy and colleagues to significantly attenuate cortisol output in such situations, providing a basis of comparison for evaluating the putative effects of calming signals versus attention-controlling stimulation on mild stress. I'm sure that numerous experiments could be devised to fairly evaluate the efficacy of calming signals to produce (or not) a calming or stress-reducing effect. Reference Grahm FK, Clifton RK (1966). Heart-rate change as a component of the orienting response. Psych Bull, 65:305-320. Hennessy MB, Williams MT, Miller DD, Douglas CW, Voith VL (1998). Influence of male and female petters on plasma cortisol and behaviour: Can human interaction reduce the stress of dogs in a public animal shelter? Appl Ani Behav Sci, 61:63-77. ----------------- Steven R. Lindsay on 11/22/02 1:59 PM, noofies@tir.com at noofies@tir.com wrote: > Two cents from a layperson..... > > I rescue, foster, and train deaf dogs (and have 4 of my own) and I also > rehabilitate puppymill rescue dogs. I use Rugaas' 'calming signals' with both > groups of dogs with good results. Whether the yawning and lip licking are > themselves communicative or their alteration of my posture, facial expression, > or tension level is then communicative, I find the dogs respond more quickly > when I use them than when I don't. > > Nancy Muller > > On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:25:24 -0500 (EST) Shetts@aol.com wrote: > >> If one looks at Turid's list of 'calming >> signals', they actually include a >> number of different types of behaviors. >> Displacement behaivors and >> submissive (or appeasement) behaviors make up >> the vast majority. There's also >> a few avoidance behaviors in her list, I >> believe. >> While I don't think there's much question that >> submissive/appeasement >> behaviors have communicative value, I've never >> seen any scientific, objective >> research documenting that displacement >> behaviors do. Nor have I seen that to >> be the case in my many hundreds of hours >> observing dogs. >> I saw a tape once of a person yawning at her >> dog in the waiting room of >> veterinary clinic to calm him down. After a >> period of several minutes , the >> dog indeed laid down and relaxed. The >> presenter attributed this to the >> calming yawns given by the owner. Obviously, >> the fallacy in this type of >> 'documentation' is that iit is also possible >> (in my opinion likely) the dog >> would have calmed down on his own, just with >> the passage of time. >> Whether or not displacement activities have >> communicative value would be an >> interesting research project. Perhaps it's not >> all or nothing - maybe some >> do and others don't. And its also possible that >> if they do have communicative >> value, that they communicate not calm, but >> conflict, which is usually what >> triggers their expression in the first place. >> best, >> Suzanne Hetts, Ph.D. >> Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist >> Animal Behavior Associates, Inc. >> Littleton, CO >> www.animalbehaviorassociates.com From: IN%"pdic@btclick.com" "Pig Disease Information Centre UK" 23-NOV-2002 07:22:51.42 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Ethology Posting" CC: IN%"d.burch@octagon-services.co.uk" "David Burch" Subj: Pig Behaviour and Welfare Ethologists and their students may be interested in a quiz that The Pig Journal has put on-line (devised by Prof. David Taylor of the University of Glasgow Veterinary School) which includes questions on porcine Agression, Parturition, Disease problems and Tail-biting The quiz is online at: http://www.pigjournal.co.uk/content/quiz/Taylor2.htm Best Wishes Mike Meredith *=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=* Pig Disease Information Centre Email: pdic@btclick.com Website: www.pighealth.com Members of AHIS (Animal Health Information Specialists) *=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=*=+=* From: IN%"margory@rcn.com" "margory cohen" 23-NOV-2002 08:31:37.56 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Calming Signals Re: Calming SignalsHello - It's the software that puts mine above your words, tho <"compromise" = movement>, are words I love. I don't see in this list anywhere Roger Abrantes. Didn't he also do = some work on this in the early '60s as well? -margory cohen Scottish Deerhounds San Francisco, CA ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steven Lindsay=20 Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 11:24 AM The significance of cut-off actions, what Rugaas seems to have in mind = by =B3calming signals=B2, was first described by Chance (1962). In the = dog, cut-off actions may involve incomplete escape movements (head or = body turning), care-seeking behavior (pawing and licking movements), or = various conflict-related displacement behaviors. The cut-off action has = been referred to as a "compromise" movement by Tinbergen and defined by = him as a "movement caused by ambivalent motivation ...between two = conflicting movements" (1964:216). References Chance MRA (1962) An interpretation of some agonistic postures: the = role of =B3cut-off=B2 acts and postures. Symposia of the Zoological Society = of London, 8:71-89. Fox MW (1969). The anatomy of aggression and its ritualization in = canidae: =20 A developmental and comparative study. Behaviour, 35:243-258. Leyhausen P (1973). Th e biology of expression and impression. In BA = Tonkin (Trans) Motivation of Human and Animal Behavior: A Ethological View. = New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Co. Tinbergen N (1964). The evolution of signaling devices. In W Etkin = (Ed). Social Behavior and Organization Among Vertebrates. Chicago, IL: = Univ of Chicago Press. From: IN%"appleby@petbcent.demon.co.uk" "David Appleby" 23-NOV-2002 12:25:08.20 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: calming signals What Rudy has written about this phenomenon was the original cause of my query, i.e. is the 'claming signal' is actually a stress response in the individual that displays it, indicating its emotional state without intentional 'signalling'? To what extent this becomes instrumentally conditioned in communication in the dog displaying them or just recognised by the observer as associated with less threat, as referenced by so well by Steven, raises more questions. To which we can add others, yawning for example, is it a stress response and a need to gain more oxygen to increase preparedness, is there a physiological calming effect on the individual that yawns and so on? Best wishes, David Appleby -----Original Message----- From: rudy de meester [mailto:rudy.demeester@pi.be] Sent: 23 November 2002 08:35 To: 'Steven Lindsay'; applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Subject: RE: calming signals Some of these behaviours are shown by the dogs in stressful conditions were no other dogs or living creatures are present. It might be interesting to see if these behaviours act as a " broadcasting" signal influencing receivers in other situations. -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Steven Lindsay [mailto:slindsay@ix.netcom.com] Verzonden: zaterdag 23 november 2002 0:26 Aan: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Onderwerp: Re: calming signals Merely evoking an orienting response can exert a decelerating (calming?) effect on the heart rate (Grahm and Clifton, 1966). Whether such actions as yawning or licking possess special calming properties beyond that of obtaining and holding the dog's attention can be tested by comparing the dog's response to calming signals versus its response to relatively neutral attention-controlling stimuli lacking obvious "calming" properties beyond that produced by the evocation of an orienting or attending response. For example, a simple experiment might involve videotaping several dogs receiving the calming signal at various points during a set period of time, while at other times receiving neutral auditory stimulation or visual signals not considered to possess obvious calming properties. Alternatively, several groups could be studied: (1) receiving the calming signal, (2) receiving the attention-controlling signals, or (3) not receiving any stimulation from a passive experimenter. The source and type of stimulation should be concealed so that observers of the video can only see the dog and its reaction to the various signals presented from behind a blind. Given that calming signals presumably produce an observable change in behavior, observers should be able to detect calming effects evoked by the calming signals and differentiate these responses from merely attention-controlling stimuli not attributed with calming properties. A design variation might involve having the practitioner of calming signals precisely describe in advance the sort of responses that one should expect to observe as the result of presenting the calming signals. The observers could than count and catalog the responses observed on the videotape, allowing one to compare their relative rate of occurrence in the presence of the putative calming signal versus their occurrence in the presence of merely attention-controlling stimuli. Another experimental design might involve some mildly stressful procedure (e.g., venipuncture--see Hennessy and colleagues (1998). Several dogs could be exposed to different conditions of stimulation for a brief period of time after blood is taken: (1) receiving the calming signals, (2) receiving the attention-controlling signal, (3) receiving petting, (4) not receiving any stimulation from a passive experimenter. Petting has been shown by Hennessy and colleagues to significantly attenuate cortisol output in such situations, providing a basis of comparison for evaluating the putative effects of calming signals versus attention-controlling stimulation on mild stress. I'm sure that numerous experiments could be devised to fairly evaluate the efficacy of calming signals to produce (or not) a calming or stress-reducing effect. Reference Grahm FK, Clifton RK (1966). Heart-rate change as a component of the orienting response. Psych Bull, 65:305-320. Hennessy MB, Williams MT, Miller DD, Douglas CW, Voith VL (1998). Influence of male and female petters on plasma cortisol and behaviour: Can human interaction reduce the stress of dogs in a public animal shelter? Appl Ani Behav Sci, 61:63-77. ----------------- Steven R. Lindsay on 11/22/02 1:59 PM, noofies@tir.com at noofies@tir.com wrote: > Two cents from a layperson..... > > I rescue, foster, and train deaf dogs (and have 4 of my own) and I also > rehabilitate puppymill rescue dogs. I use Rugaas' 'calming signals' with both > groups of dogs with good results. Whether the yawning and lip licking are > themselves communicative or their alteration of my posture, facial expression, > or tension level is then communicative, I find the dogs respond more quickly > when I use them than when I don't. > > Nancy Muller > > On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:25:24 -0500 (EST) Shetts@aol.com wrote: > >> If one looks at Turid's list of 'calming >> signals', they actually include a >> number of different types of behaviors. >> Displacement behaivors and >> submissive (or appeasement) behaviors make up >> the vast majority. There's also >> a few avoidance behaviors in her list, I >> believe. >> While I don't think there's much question that >> submissive/appeasement >> behaviors have communicative value, I've never >> seen any scientific, objective >> research documenting that displacement >> behaviors do. Nor have I seen that to >> be the case in my many hundreds of hours >> observing dogs. >> I saw a tape once of a person yawning at her >> dog in the waiting room of >> veterinary clinic to calm him down. After a >> period of several minutes , the >> dog indeed laid down and relaxed. The >> presenter attributed this to the >> calming yawns given by the owner. Obviously, >> the fallacy in this type of >> 'documentation' is that iit is also possible >> (in my opinion likely) the dog >> would have calmed down on his own, just with >> the passage of time. >> Whether or not displacement activities have >> communicative value would be an >> interesting research project. Perhaps it's not >> all or nothing - maybe some >> do and others don't. And its also possible that >> if they do have communicative >> value, that they communicate not calm, but >> conflict, which is usually what >> triggers their expression in the first place. >> best, >> Suzanne Hetts, Ph.D. >> Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist >> Animal Behavior Associates, Inc. >> Littleton, CO >> www.animalbehaviorassociates.com From: IN%"slindsay@ix.netcom.com" "Steven Lindsay" 24-NOV-2002 21:59:33.54 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: calming signals The primary effect of yawning in the dog is probably to increase arousal an= d alertness at times of reduced attention or drowsiness. Dogs may yawn during the practice of repetitive and monotonous training exercises such as repeated sit-stay behaviors. In some of these dogs, yawning appears to present closely with spontaneous penile erections. Whether the dog is stressed or simply bored or drowsy at such times remains a question for debate. In any case, the trainer can avoid allowing the process to become so boring or tedious for the dog that it elicits yawning by keeping trainin= g sessions brief, reward dense, and playful. Increased yawning activity may occur under certain stressful social situations. Beerda and colleagues (1998) have reported that yawning and stress-related oral activities (e.g., licking movements) often occur in response to aversive stimulation occurring in a social context, such as physical restraint or startle with a person nearby at the time of stimulation. These findings suggest that at least some stress-related yawning and licking in dogs may be emitted with a social intent (submissive signal) that might not occur (or occur less frequently) in the absence of a= n appropriate social object. Among olive baboons anxious yawning and other self-directed behaviors (e.g.= , touching, scratching, grooming, shaking) increase approximately 40% more if the closest group member (within 5 meters) is dominant, suggesting that suc= h anxious behavior may sometimes have a social significance (Castles et al., 1999). However, such behavior is probably not displayed in order to calm o= r pacify the nearby dominator, as predicted by the calming signal hypothesis; in fact, the investigators found that these behaviors often occur in the absence of a nearby conspecific to receive them. The anxious behaviors appear to simply reflect a generally aroused state of readiness preparing the subordinate baboon for rapid adjustment to the situation. The yawning action probably does little or nothing to calm the dominator, but may indicate to it that the subordinate has become worried by its close proximity. =20 Among humans yawning helps to increase alertness and reliably anticipates increased activity (Baenninger et al., 1996). Although the function of increasing O2-CO2 exchange in the lungs has been proposed, to my knowledge the actual physiological function of yawning has not yet been determined (Argiolas and Melis, 1998). Given what is known about yawning, especially in the absence of credible evidence to the contrary, repeatedly yawning at a dog doesn=B9t make very muc= h sense as a means to calm it. With regards to licking actions, probably the best way to produce a beneficial relaxing effect similar to self-directed licking is for the human caregiver to simply stroke the dog=8Ba demonstrated stress-reducing activity for both the owner and the dog. Licking actions performed by the dog probably do serve significant canine social functions, especially as appeasement and care-seeking signals, but I seriously doubt the value of deliberately making arbitrary licking actions towards the dog in order to calm it. I will acknowledge, however, that allowing the dog to deliver an affectionate lick on one=B9s cheek can be very soothing and comforting and probably calming for the dog to perform, as well. References Argiolas A, Melis MR (1998). The neuropharmacology of yawning. Euro J Pharmacol, 343:1-16. Baenninger R, Binkley S, Benninger MA (1996). Field observations of yawnin= g and activity in humans. Physiol Behav, 59:421-425. Beerda B, Schilder MBH, van Hooff JARAM, de Vries HW, Mol JA (1998). Behavioural, saliva cortisol and heart rate responses to different types of stimuli in dogs. Appl Ani Behav Sci, 58:365-381. Castles DL, Whiten A, Aureli F (1999). Social anxiety, relationships and self-directed behavior among wild female olive baboons. Anim Behav, 58:1207-1217. ----------------- Steven R. Lindsay=20 on 11/23/02 1:24 PM, David Appleby at appleby@petbcent.demon.co.uk wrote: > What Rudy has written about this phenomenon was the original cause of my > query, i.e. is the 'claming signal' is actually a stress response in the > individual that displays it, indicating its emotional state without > intentional 'signalling'? To what extent this becomes instrumentally > conditioned in communication in the dog displaying them or just recognise= d > by the observer as associated with less threat, as referenced by so well = by > Steven, raises more questions. To which we can add others, yawning for > example, is it a stress response and a need to gain more oxygen to increa= se > preparedness, is there a physiological calming effect on the individual t= hat > yawns and so on? >=20 > Best wishes, >=20 > David Appleby >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: rudy de meester [mailto:rudy.demeester@pi.be] > Sent: 23 November 2002 08:35 > To: 'Steven Lindsay'; applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca > Subject: RE: calming signals >=20 > Some of these behaviours are shown by the dogs in stressful conditions > were no other dogs or living creatures are present. It might be > interesting to see if these behaviours act as a " broadcasting" signal > influencing receivers in other situations. >=20 > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Steven Lindsay [mailto:slindsay@ix.netcom.com] > Verzonden: zaterdag 23 november 2002 0:26 > Aan: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca > Onderwerp: Re: calming signals >=20 > Merely evoking an orienting response can exert a decelerating (calming?) > effect on the heart rate (Grahm and Clifton, 1966). Whether such > actions as > yawning or licking possess special calming properties beyond that of > obtaining and holding the dog's attention can be tested by comparing the > dog's response to calming signals versus its response to relatively > neutral > attention-controlling stimuli lacking obvious "calming" properties > beyond > that produced by the evocation of an orienting or attending response. >=20 > For example, a simple experiment might involve videotaping several dogs > receiving the calming signal at various points during a set period of > time, > while at other times receiving neutral auditory stimulation or visual > signals not considered to possess obvious calming properties. > Alternatively, several groups could be studied: (1) receiving the > calming > signal, (2) receiving the attention-controlling signals, or (3) not > receiving any stimulation from a passive experimenter. The source and > type > of stimulation should be concealed so that observers of the video can > only > see the dog and its reaction to the various signals presented from > behind a > blind. >=20 > Given that calming signals presumably produce an observable change in > behavior, observers should be able to detect calming effects evoked by > the > calming signals and differentiate these responses from merely > attention-controlling stimuli not attributed with calming properties. >=20 > A design variation might involve having the practitioner of calming > signals > precisely describe in advance the sort of responses that one should > expect > to observe as the result of presenting the calming signals. The > observers > could than count and catalog the responses observed on the videotape, > allowing one to compare their relative rate of occurrence in the > presence of > the putative calming signal versus their occurrence in the presence of > merely attention-controlling stimuli. >=20 > Another experimental design might involve some mildly stressful > procedure > (e.g., venipuncture--see Hennessy and colleagues (1998). Several dogs > could > be exposed to different conditions of stimulation for a brief period of > time > after blood is taken: (1) receiving the calming signals, (2) receiving > the > attention-controlling signal, (3) receiving petting, (4) not receiving > any > stimulation from a passive experimenter. Petting has been shown by > Hennessy > and colleagues to significantly attenuate cortisol output in such > situations, providing a basis of comparison for evaluating the putative > effects of calming signals versus attention-controlling stimulation on > mild > stress. >=20 > I'm sure that numerous experiments could be devised to fairly evaluate > the > efficacy of calming signals to produce (or not) a calming or > stress-reducing > effect. >=20 > Reference >=20 > Grahm FK, Clifton RK (1966). Heart-rate change as a component of the > orienting response. Psych Bull, 65:305-320. >=20 > Hennessy MB, Williams MT, Miller DD, Douglas CW, Voith VL (1998). > Influence > of male and female petters on plasma cortisol and behaviour: Can human > interaction reduce the stress of dogs in a public animal shelter? Appl > Ani > Behav Sci, 61:63-77. >=20 > ----------------- > Steven R. Lindsay >=20 >=20 > on 11/22/02 1:59 PM, noofies@tir.com at noofies@tir.com wrote: >=20 >> Two cents from a layperson..... >>=20 >> I rescue, foster, and train deaf dogs (and have 4 of my own) and I > also >> rehabilitate puppymill rescue dogs. I use Rugaas' 'calming signals' > with both >> groups of dogs with good results. Whether the yawning and lip licking > are >> themselves communicative or their alteration of my posture, facial > expression, >> or tension level is then communicative, I find the dogs respond more > quickly >> when I use them than when I don't. >>=20 >> Nancy Muller >>=20 >> On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:25:24 -0500 (EST) Shetts@aol.com wrote: >>=20 >>> If one looks at Turid's list of 'calming >>> signals', they actually include a >>> number of different types of behaviors. >>> Displacement behaivors and >>> submissive (or appeasement) behaviors make up >>> the vast majority. There's also >>> a few avoidance behaviors in her list, I >>> believe. >>> While I don't think there's much question that >>> submissive/appeasement >>> behaviors have communicative value, I've never >>> seen any scientific, objective >>> research documenting that displacement >>> behaviors do. Nor have I seen that to >>> be the case in my many hundreds of hours >>> observing dogs. >>> I saw a tape once of a person yawning at her >>> dog in the waiting room of >>> veterinary clinic to calm him down. After a >>> period of several minutes , the >>> dog indeed laid down and relaxed. The >>> presenter attributed this to the >>> calming yawns given by the owner. Obviously, >>> the fallacy in this type of >>> 'documentation' is that iit is also possible >>> (in my opinion likely) the dog >>> would have calmed down on his own, just with >>> the passage of time. >>> Whether or not displacement activities have >>> communicative value would be an >>> interesting research project. Perhaps it's not >>> all or nothing - maybe some >>> do and others don't. And its also possible that >>> if they do have communicative >>> value, that they communicate not calm, but >>> conflict, which is usually what >>> triggers their expression in the first place. >>> best, >>> Suzanne Hetts, Ph.D. >>> Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist >>> Animal Behavior Associates, Inc. >>> Littleton, CO >>> www.animalbehaviorassociates.com From: IN%"dmills@lincoln.ac.uk" "Daniel Mills" 25-NOV-2002 03:07:08.65 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Calming Signals We are currently doing some research into these signals and many of the points raised re:function are very valid, but a signal that is instrumentalised is still a method of effective communication. Whilst it is too early to report on our findings, from the pilot work we have good evidence of different signals ebing used in subtly different contexts and some being related to specific individuals, i.e. it seems (but don't hold me to this) that some are used in broad contexts, whilst others are a feature of individual style. It may be that these latter ones are more instrumentalised. We hope to have the work finished by the middle of next year, and will publish in due course Daniel Daniel Mills BVSc MRCVS Principal Lecturer in Behavioural Studies and Animal Welfare University of Lincoln Animal Behaviour, Cognition and Welfare Group Riseholme Park Lincoln LN2 2LG tel 44 (0)1522 895356 e-mail dmills@lincoln.ac.uk -----Original Message----- From: Patricia Simonet [mailto:psimonet@petalk.org] Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 5:07 PM To: David Appleby; applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Subject: Calming Signals Calming Signals Hello David, It is my understanding that "Calming Signals" are the same as displacement behaviours. I have been unable to find any published work on calming signals (aside from Turid Rugaas' book and video). Trisha ----------------------------------------- PeTalk - because our pets matter Patricia Simonet Animal Behaviorist 604 South Montavilla Drive Spokane, WA 99224 www.petalk.org psimonet@petalk.org (509) 456-8970 ----------------------------------------- From: IN%"F.L.Burton@udcf.gla.ac.uk" "Francis Burton" 25-NOV-2002 03:35:52.84 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: calming signals At 22:59 24/11/02 -0500, Steven Lindsay wrote: >The primary effect of yawning in the dog is probably to increase arousal and >alertness at times of reduced attention or drowsiness. Dogs may yawn during >the practice of repetitive and monotonous training exercises such as >repeated sit-stay behaviors. In some of these dogs, yawning appears to >present closely with spontaneous penile erections. I have observed an association between yawning and masturbation in some stallions. The animal appears drowsy, almost "introspective", and a series of yawns is followed by "spontaneous erection" within less than a minute. (Someone suggested that yawning in horses is an expression of dominance, but I have never seen any evidence to support this idea in several years of looking out for it.) Francis From: IN%"slindsay@ix.netcom.com" "Steven Lindsay" 25-NOV-2002 08:03:49.55 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Memes Richard Dawkins' notion of the infectious meme provides some insight into the sinister way that some outlandish dog behavior and training ideas, fads= , and outright commercial frauds have been passed off as valuable procedures and products. According to Dawkins, memes are virus-like ideational contagions that parasitize the mind and survive solely for the sake of thei= r replication and propagation by others, regardless of scientific merit or practical value. =B3Just as genes propagate themselves in the gene pool by leaping from body t= o body via sperms or eggs, so memes propagate themselves in the meme pool by leaping from brain to brain via a process which, in the broad sense, can be called imitation. If a scientist hears, or reads about, a good idea, he passes it on to his colleagues and students. He mentions it in his article= s and his lectures. If the idea catches on, it can be said to propagate itself, spreading from brain to brain....When you plant a fertile meme in m= y mind you literally parasitize my brain, turning it into a vehicle for the meme's propagation in just the way that a virus my parasitize the genetic mechanism of a host cell.=B2 (Dawkins, 1976:192) Propagators of deceitful dog-training memes often arm themselves with a variety of pseudo-scientific notions and a brimming bag of magical gadgets, incantations, potions, and mimetic rituals. These deceivers and moralizer= s gain the public ear and attention by cloaking themselves under a thin veil of scientific plausibility, and although their facts and logic are fatally flawed, their ideas appear reasonable enough for the undiscerning mind to accept, mimic, support, and disseminate. Dog-training memes are typically sweetened with a moralistic principle and blessed by the wink of a charismatic authority figure who stakes his or her reputation (and fortune) on the successful propagation of the meme. Even though many of these dog-training memes fly in the face of common sens= e and verge on the ridiculous, they may nonetheless take on a surprising public mobility and momentum by means of the child-like gullibility of converts to the charismatic persuasion of entertaining =B3memlots=B2 (read zealots) and =B3membots=B2=8Bpopular figures that have dedicated themselves to th= e propagation of these contagion memes for the =B3fameme=B2 and fortune that it brings to them. Lacking the protection and immunizing effects of discernment and critical thinking, some bright lights have been darkened by mistaking the confusion and sickness of such parasitism for legitimate knowledge and wisdom, ultimately they are left only with the solace of mimicking and idolizing their hero and infecting as many others as they can with the mind disease that has claimed them, thereby expanding the cult of doggie nonsense to which they subscribe. Ultimately, the chaff is separated from the wheat and deceptive memes are broken on the training field or discredited in the laboratory, but not without first causing significant potential harm. References Dawkins R (1976). The Selfish Gene. New York: Oxford Univ Press. From: IN%"F.L.Burton@udcf.gla.ac.uk" "Francis Burton" 25-NOV-2002 09:40:09.33 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Memes At 09:03 25/11/02 -0500, Steven Lindsay wrote: >Ultimately, the chaff is separated from the wheat and deceptive memes are >broken on the training field or discredited in the laboratory, but not >without first causing significant potential harm. That was an interesting essay! Sadly, I suspect there may be cases where the deceptive memes persist regardless of harm caused. For example, the approach to handling horses that stresses the necessity of placing oneself at the top of a notional herd dominance hierarchy is one such meme (I believe). It has a seductive logic. More importantly, it appears to work in many cases. However, such an approach is entirely unnecessary, is based on false premises and can even (sometimes) lead the "meme host" to spectacular failure with very aggressive individuals. Because the meme has spread so widely, infecting many well-respected trainers and commentators, and because its effects are relatively subtle and benign -- except in the disastrous cases, where some other rationalization will be forthcoming -- it will probably continue to spread indefinitely. Even extremely good horsemen can carry the meme. Guided by experience and instinct, they may =do= the right things, even though the rationalization of their actions may be wrong. Arguments based on observation of behaviour can go only so far in countering this meme. I wish there was a straightforward way to show people the potential dangers of rigidly thinking in terms of "pecking order". Francis From: IN%"psimonet@petalk.org" "Patricia Simonet" 25-NOV-2002 10:12:24.55 To: IN%"dmills@lincoln.ac.uk" "Daniel Mills", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Calming Signals > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --Boundary_(ID_0GQiNfc3hjuaijiGybjDiw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > We are currently doing some research into these signals and many of the points > raised re:function are very valid, but a signal that is instrumentalised is > still a method of effective communication. Whilst it is too early to report on > our findings, from the pilot work we have good evidence of different signals > ebing used in subtly different contexts and some being related to specific > individuals, i.e. it seems (but don't hold me to this) that some are used in > broad contexts, whilst others are a feature of individual style. It may be > that these latter ones are more instrumentalised. We hope to have the work > finished by the middle of next year, and will publish in due course > Daniel Thank you Daniel, I look forward to reading your findings. I am very interested in the individual differences that you found. Individual differences seemed to be very evident in my research on chimps, elephants, and dogs. Trisha ----------------------------------------- PeTalk - because our pets matter Patricia Simonet Animal Behaviorist 604 South Montavilla Drive Spokane, WA 99224 www.petalk.org psimonet@petalk.org (509) 456-8970 ----------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_0GQiNfc3hjuaijiGybjDiw) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Re: Calming Signals
We are currently doing some research into these signals and many of the points raised re:function are very valid, but a signal that is instrumentalised is still a method of effective communication. Whilst it is too early to report on our findings, from the pilot work we have good evidence of different signals ebing used in subtly different contexts and some being related to specific individuals, i.e. it seems (but don't hold me to this) that some are used in broad contexts, whilst others are a feature of individual style. It may be that these latter ones are more instrumentalised. We hope to have the work finished by the middle of next year, and will publish in due course
Daniel

Thank you Daniel, I look forward to reading your findings. I am very interested in the individual differences that you found. Individual differences seemed to be very evident in my research on chimps, elephants, and dogs.

Trisha

-----------------------------------------
PeTalk - because our pets matter

Patricia Simonet
Animal Behaviorist

604 South Montavilla Drive
Spokane, WA 99224

www.petalk.org
psimonet@petalk.org

(509) 456-8970

-----------------------------------------
 --Boundary_(ID_0GQiNfc3hjuaijiGybjDiw)-- From: IN%"canine.education@bigpond.com.au" "Canine Education and Behaviour Research" 25-NOV-2002 14:11:00.50 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Memes Dear Francis I read your reply to Steve's comments with great interest and would like if possible to request a bit of clarification. The premise of dominance is greatly overused and frequently tends to be used as a justification for forceful means when it is concerned with the handling of animals (Generalisation). But as Dominance can be defined and the ability to exert control over an individual surely in virtually all animal handling the handler must take up a dominant position? That having been said surely if we are looking at how someone controls any animal we need to view it more along the lines of the handlers own style i.e. the means by which they attain their sense of what control actually is.. Comparatively we have the concept of parenting styles in humans which I have found does work in well with the results and actions of animal handlers. The three styles are Permissive, authoritarian and authoritative. Surely instead of using the word dominance to describe the type of handling you mentioned a better term would be authoritarian as it does succinctly imply the lack of consideration for the animals emotional and cognitive position. Be very interested in hearing what you have to say on this as it is an area of study I am most interested to pursue further Iain Macdonald "Canine Education and Behavioural Research" Sth Gippsland Hwy Lang Lang Victoria Australia 3984 Phone: (61) 3 59975575 Mobile: 0419205120 ICQ: 165558291 canine.education@bigpond.com.au rrenroc@bigpond.com.au> From: IN%"pdic@btclick.com" "Pig Disease Information Centre UK" 25-NOV-2002 17:18:57.15 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Ethology Posting" CC: Subj: Memes and a "Stress hotline" for pigs I am not sure if this news item (below) is one of Richard Dawkins' "infectious memes" that Steven was referring to (by the way, is the notion of "infectious memes" itself an "infectious meme" - in additon to being yet another piece of burdensome jargon?). [I seem to recall that the notion of the earth being round was for many years an "ideational contagion" and here in Britain, people have been burnt at the stake for the "ideational contagion" that the 'Doctrine of Transubstantiation' was an ideational contagion] Which all goes to show that human beliefs are very strange things. After all scientific beliefs (interpretation of the evidence) can be a rather moveable feast and scientific evidence itself can be 'shifting sands'. Even the crucible of practical experience is not infallible - a lot of broken limbs in the early days of human attempts to fly testified quite clearly that flying machines were a nonesensical notion. However, I digress from what I really wanted to say, which is that I came across this intriguing news item - said to originate from a report on the German language website www.schweine.net Emergency telephone for the pigs ======================= A German research institute has developed a control unit which is able to "hear" (i.e. differentiate from others) the cries of pigs under stress. It will allow producers to react early and get rid of stress factors before they become economically damaging. Consumers could be shown objective recordings, to prove their pigmeat comes from low-stress farms. Source: ------------------------------ends------------- Does anyone know anything more about this project? If not, can anyone with a better knowledge of German than myself, locate the original report on www.schweine.net and tell us more about what it says? Thanks! Mike Meredith www.pighealth.com From: IN%"manta_ray@hotmail.com" "Corinne Hill" 26-NOV-2002 10:06:05.68 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: A request for help Dear all, I am studying for an MSc in Applied Animal Behaviour and Animal Welfare at Edinburgh University. I have just carried out some research regarding aggression shown in an all female herd (4 individuals - 2 mother;daughter pairs) of Arabian oryx (Oryx leucoryx) at Edinburgh Zoo and I wondered if anyone knows of any previous instances where this may have been studied. I have found some articles regarding the reintroduction of the Oryx back into their natural habitat after their extinction was caused by hunting, but nothing on aggression, especially with regards to all female herds. I would be greatful for any input, thanks Corinne Hill (manta_ray@hotmail.com) _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From: IN%"F.L.Burton@udcf.gla.ac.uk" "Francis Burton" 26-NOV-2002 14:07:52.85 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Equine dominance (was Re: Memes) At 07:22 26/11/02 +1100, Canine Education and Behaviour Research wrote: >I read your reply to Steve's comments with great interest and would like if >possible to request a bit of clarification. Dear Iain, Sorry for the delay in replying - it has been a long day at work! I think the misunderstanding arises partly from the slipperiness of the words that we use. So, in relation to animal handling, "dominance" can mean having the upper hand i.e. being in control. With the obvious implications for safety, it is clearly desirable to be "dominant" in this sense! >That having been said surely if we are looking at how someone controls any >animal we need to view it more along the lines of the handlers own style >i.e. the means by which they attain their sense of what control actually >is.. Right! The thing is, when it comes to horses, "dominance" also has a specific meaning in the context of social interaction and competition for scarce resources. It is the application of =this= concept to general handling that is problemmatic for me. The meaning of "dominance" is smeared because a single word is being used for more than one concept. This tends to encourage an unhelpful linking of ideas. I mentioned false premises in my last message. Some possibly questionable premises are: - that dominance is the main organizing principle in horse herds (and without it the herd would fall apart) - that dominance is an important and manifest factor in all herds even when resources are not scarce - that the way a subordinate individual responds to a dominant one is the same in horses as in other species - that horses are aware that a hierarchy exists - that the dominant horse is the "herd leader" (by dint of her dominance) - that "leadership" is the same for horses as it is for humans - that a dominant horse commands obedience and respect from subordinates - that horses consider humans as other horses - that horses are unhappy if they are unsure of their place in the hierarchy In practice, what difference does it make if one believes that social- dominance must be applied in handling? One difference between approaches might be seen in a handler's responses to aggressive behaviour. Given the assumption that the human must be perceived by the horse as being higher up in the pecking order, what would be the logical response to a show of aggression? It might be considered how a higher ranking horse would respond and efforts made to emulate that. Thus the handler might respond by facing down the transgressor, making him back off by use of forceful body-language and/or real force, by being aggressive in return. In many cases, the horse will behave as the handler wishes. But what if the aggression escalates? The logical choice of the pro-dominance person would surely be to escalate too - because it is a contest that must be won, or else there will be trouble in the future! In my opinion, supported by experience, it is unnecessary and counterproductive ever to escalate in this way or to play the dominance game with horses, even to a small degree. There are effective ways to deal with aggressive, "dominant" and "disrespectful" (e.g. space- invading) behaviour that involve no aggression or emulating a dominant horse. (Of course, prevention is better than cure.) The problem with aggressive/"dominant" handling of horses is it does nothing to build trust or liking for the handler. Some horsemen will say they are able to dominate in the social-dominance sense (not just the control sense) gently, without being at all aggressive or domineering. But then I think they are simply displaying qualities which =are= useful, such as confidence, fearlessness, and clarity of intention. The situation may well be different for dogs - I don't have any experience there. >Surely instead of using the word dominance to describe the type of handling >you mentioned a better term would be authoritarian as it does succinctly >imply the lack of consideration for the animals emotional and cognitive >position. I agree - I'm all for ditching the word dominance. Maybe that would discourage the spurious linkage between concepts. Francis From: IN%"canine.education@bigpond.com.au" "Canine Education and Behaviour Research" 26-NOV-2002 14:26:38.68 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Equine dominance (was Re: Memes) Hi Francis Thank you for getting back to me as we both agree the term is way over used. How could anyone think that all species react submissively in the same manner?? I'd really hate to have my son react to my controlling or correcting him by licking my lips (common reaction to prevent escalation in dogs) The situation is I believe a little different for dogs but I do most certainly agree that the term dominance is frequently used to justify handler actions which are totally unwarranted in virtually all animal species being handled. Again thanks for the information Take care Iain Macdonald "Canine Education and Behavioural Research" Sth Gippsland Hwy Lang Lang Victoria Australia 3984 Phone: (61) 3 59975575 Mobile: 0419205120 ICQ: 165558291 canine.education@bigpond.com.au rrenroc@bigpond.com.au From: IN%"pdic@btclick.com" "Pig Disease Information Centre UK" 28-NOV-2002 09:34:44.35 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Ethology Posting" CC: Subj: Stress Vocalisation Monitoring - pigs With the help of Norman Dunn of FoodFarm Communications, Ludwigshafen and Andreas Briese of the Tierärztliche Hochschule, Hannover, I have tracked down more data on the "Stress Hotline" news item about stress vocalisation monitoring in pigs in Germany and also made contact directly with Professor Gerhard Manteuffel. An extensive range of further information is now online at: www.stress-counselling.co.uk/pigs.htm Very interesting work - what comments do ethologists have? Best Wishes Mike Meredith From: IN%"saluqi@ix.netcom.com" "John Burchard" 28-NOV-2002 16:18:28.34 To: IN%"rudy.demeester@pi.be" "rudy de meester", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied ethology list" CC: Subj: RE: cats and homing instincts rudy de meester wrote: > Hello everybody. > > I am urgently searching for information on the "homing instinct" of > cats. Could anybody give some more profound information or tell me where > to look for it? Are there scientifically validated tests done or is it > just a collection of stories and theories? AFAIK that remarkable French naturalist and entomologist Jean-Henri Fabre did some actual experiments on the homing ability of cats (his own, when he moved). It's been too many decades for me to remember in which of his voluminous writings ("Souvenirs Entomologiques") these are detailed. So far as I remember, Fabre's conclusions were that adult, already territorial male cats could not be moved to a new location, because they would always return to their original territory. As I remember he did the usual things, i.e. transporting them in a sack so they couldn't see the route, etc., and they were still able to find their way back (to the farm from which he had moved) over considerable distances. FWIW I have a couple of factual stories of Salukis finding their way home over great distances under comparable circumstances, in one case across 800 miles of waterless desert in Saudi Arabia, in the other case from Paris to the south of France near Nice. The animals and/or owners are personally known to me. There is a great deal of literature on animal navigation and the homing abilities of various species. An entire Department of the Max Planck Institut for Behavioral Physiology in Seewiesen was devoted to this subject. Animal navigation is a fact, and many species have truly remarkable homing abilities. Among the most striking examples are birds nesting on oceanic islands, e.g. Manx shearwaters which have been the subject of considerable experimental work. The abilities of homing pigeons are proverbial. I used to breed homing pigeons, and one of my indelible memories is of selling a pair to another fancier, who clipped their wings to prevent them flying away, and in due course (several weeks later) let them out in his yard. Promptly thereafter they arrived back at my house, having traveled the intervening 12 miles, in heavily wooded country, on foot ... the record holder being, AFAIK, a pigeon bred in Viet Nam, sold to a fancier in Belgium, which flew back to Viet Nam upon release, after a very long period of confinement in its new home. I don't know, but think it quite possible that Paul Leyhausen might have written something about cat homing behavior? John -- John Burchard Tepe Gawra Salukis http://saluqi.home.netcom.com/ saluqi@ix.netcom.com From: IN%"saluqi@ix.netcom.com" "John Burchard" 28-NOV-2002 16:18:50.97 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied ethology list" CC: Subj: RE: aggressive dogs "Jennifer C. Renner" wrote: > Hello everyone. I've been a passive member of the listserve for about a > year now and have noted some interesting postings regarding dogs and > behavioral problems. I have a question of my own regarding aggression > and am wondering if anyone might be able to help. > > I am a PhD student of animal learning and behavior and study numerical > competence in pigeons. Despite this training, I have a rather > embarassing problem with one of my own pets. He's a 2 1/2 year old German > Spitz (also known as American Eskimo in the US) that I acquired as a part > of an adoption just over a year ago. He's a wonderful dog, however, he's > terribly aggressive toward strangers and individuals that he's met for the > first time. I've been told that they're known to be an aggressive breed, > however, it seems that his behavior is out of control. He's attempted to > bite me, for example, when someone (e.g., delivery person, friend, > etc.) calls by my home, often not letting me past him to get through the > door. I've tried positive reinforcement, a shock coller and even just > leaving the room, ignoring his behavior, however, nothing seems to have > worked. Is anyone aware of any literature or training techniques that I > might attempt to apply in order to curb his aggression? Is there a chance > he might "grow out of it," or should I be concerned about the problem > becoming worse? You should be concerned. I strongly recommend you sign up for the Canine Aggression list, whose core members consist of a number of dog trainers specialized in dealing with such problems, and present your question there. That is a Yahoogroups list at "canineaggression@yahoogroups.com" and AFAIK you can subscribe by going to the Yahoogroups web site (http://www.yahoogroups.com/), registering yourself with a Yahoogroups identity and password, and then joining the canineaggression list. John -- John Burchard Tepe Gawra Salukis http://saluqi.home.netcom.com/ saluqi@ix.netcom.com From: IN%"saluqi@ix.netcom.com" "John Burchard" 28-NOV-2002 16:41:15.15 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied ethology list" CC: Subj: RE: Instinct and innate Dr Carlos A Raimundo wrote: > Can somebody help me with the distinction, if any, between instinct and innate? > > Where do these sit in the brain? I would appreciate bibliography. In the first place "instinct" is a noun, and "innate" is an adjective. In other words, an "instinct" might be said to be "innate." In the second place, both those terms have been the subject of a great deal of controversy in the behavioral literature. That has led to many people avoiding them as if they were tainted ... which is all very well, except that the resulting circumlocutions didn't really add much information content, but did serve (unfortunately IMO) to divert attention somewhat from the phenomena themselves. What many objected to, IMO correctly, was the common 19th century practice of using "instinct" as an *explanation* rather than a description of behavior. It is however relevant to know whether a complex behavioral sequence, or a specific response to particular stimuli, does or does not require for its development environmental input of the kind commonly referred to as "learning." It is by now abundantly clear there are plenty of rather complex behavior items which do not require that kind of input, or in other words, for which most of the required information is encoded in the genes and the epigenetic process. This is particularly obvious in the case of many "sign stimulus" recognition processes in the social life of many species, and in the case also of what are called in German "Erbkoordinationen" and in English somewhat clumsily "fixed action patterns." That is not even quite an accurate translation of the German, since they don't have to be "fixed" in order to be inherited, nor does modifiability prove they are not genetic . Anyway, animal behavior is full of examples of more or less complex action sequences which are performed "correctly" and in response to the appropriate stimuli the very first time they appear in the animal's ontogeny. It is perhaps not unreasonable to call such things "innate" to emphasize that their specific information content is inherited rather than acquired during ontogeny from external sources. To call one of them "an instinct" is perhaps a bit more controversial. Someone else will have to provide the literature references. All my books and papers are currently packed in boxes. For the serious pursuit of this line of discussion, many of the important papers are in German. As for location within the brain, I suppose one could say such things result from the pattern of connections within the brain, and are not necessarily (or even likely) localized in one place. Interesting in that respect are the brain stimulation experiments of W.R. Hess and especially of E. von Holst, and studies using tiny quantities of hormones (etc.) applied directly via microprobe to specific brain locations, a kind of investigation pioneered AFAIK by R. D. Michael. All of these have in common that by applying a small electrical stimulus, or a tiny quantity of hormone or neurotransmitter, to some specific site, one can elicit reliably quite specific - and often relatively "natural" and well integrated - patterns of behavior. That does not of course mean that the entire organization of the behavior is localized at the point of stimulation! The clearest discussion of these issues (at least that I know of) is contained in some papers of von Holst from the late 1950s and 1960s. Some of them may have been translated from German by R.D. Martin. In any case they are IMO models of lucid thinking about these issues. John -- John Burchard Tepe Gawra Salukis http://saluqi.home.netcom.com/ saluqi@ix.netcom.com From: IN%"saluqi@ix.netcom.com" "John Burchard" 28-NOV-2002 16:46:37.00 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied ethology list" CC: Subj: RE: Dangerous dogs Originally written 09/08/02, stuck in my outbox due to computer problems ... Iain Macdonald wrote: > I have followed this thread with a great deal of interest, whilst the points > raised are very valid the fact still remains that until such time as the > pedigree dog world places equal emphasis on temperament/personality/character > as they do on morphology there will be a bias toward producing dogs which > conform to a physical standard regardless of how sound their mind is. And regardless of whether or not they are physically and mentally capable of performing whatever particular function was the original reason for existence of their breed ... > If the governing bodies were serious about improving the public perception of > dogs in general and pedigree dogs particularly they would implement mandatory > testing prior to any dog being accepted into the breeding/competing registry. > This would eliminate a great deal of dogs which have genetic traits which > cause so much concern with the general public and show a commitment on behalf > of the breeders to be making a serious effort to the undertaking of > eliminating dangerous behavioural traits from their breeds. BUT such a move > would be highly unpopular with many (read very vocal) members of such bodies > and as a result is highly unlikely to actually eventuate. Although I agree emphatically with the first paragraph above, I must disagree with the second paragraph. The idea of mandatory temperament testing makes IMO unrealistic assumptions about the extent of our understanding of the development of behavior, and about the degree of uniformity in behavior and behavior development as between different individuals and different breeds. IMO the idea that you can eliminate "dangerous behavioral traits" from a breed by some kind of puppy testing is utopian nonsense. Canine behavior is not so simple as that - dogs are not cockroaches - and judging by what I have so far read on the subject our understanding of it is at present still rudimentary. I am sure you could find wide disagreement among "experts" about what behavioral traits in a young puppy presaged what character strengths or weaknesses in the later adult dog - and I am even more certain that all such predictions would very often be found to be wrong. The idea of using anything of the kind as a basis for deciding what could be bred and what could not, on some kind of universal basis, strikes me as a formula for disaster. > In my opinion the Swedish DMA test comes the closest to any current testing > program to facilitate a benchmark of acceptable > temperament/personality/character which still allows for required/desired > breed characteristics and could be applied to virtually any breed of dog > currently recognised. As this test is widely available the question which is > begging to be asked is why it has not been implemented along with a puppy > register where to achieve acceptance into the general registry (allowing a dog > to be bred with and also to compete) a successful pass under such a test needs > to be achieved. I am not too familiar with the Swedish DMA test but must very seriously question whether *any* standardized test, applied under standardized conditions by "experts" assigned to that function by some administrative body, can provide the kind of protection dreamed of (but probably impracticable for fairly fundamental reasons) from "dangerous behavioral traits." The great majority of "dangerous dog" incidents of which I am aware must IMO be considered as "operator error" of various kinds (intentional and otherwise). Many of the dogs involved in those incidents probably did not have genetic flaws of behavior that could have been identified by puppy testing. Instead they were fairly normal dogs made dangerous by stupid or malicious human beings. The idea of "dangerous dogs" and particularly "dangerous breeds" is quite largely an artifact of media sensationalism. In terms of temperament flaws likely to lead to biting, the most dangerous breeds are probably Golden Retrievers and Cocker Spaniels. Bites by the cute family pet are, however, not newsworthy, and are usually ignored by the media. Bites by "pit bulls" or anything vaguely resembling them, on the other hand, are front page news across the country. It is of course quite true that breeding primarily for conformation leads to a multitude of ills, including behavioral weaknesses as well as all manner of health and soundness problems. It is however also true that canine behavior is extraordinarily rich and variable, to the point where I think the predictive value of a standardized puppy test is probably poor for anything beyond very basic trends. I breed working dogs, not show dogs, and consider all-round capability, which of course includes temperament, to be more important than competitive success. My animals are stable, friendly and outgoing (in a breed where "aloof" and "reserved" are considered typical attributes). They are also protective, however, and would certainly intervene if someone were to break into my house, or attempt to assault my person. We live in a society where such action might brand them as "dangerous dogs." If a criminal assaults me in my own home, with murderous intent, I am allowed to shoot him dead (if I have the appropriate firearms permit ) but if instead my dog disarms and disables him, or if I use my knowledge of martial arts to do the same, he can sue me in a court of law for enormous damages ... In any event, the vast majority of dogs bred in this country at least are bred either by commercial breeders or by so-called "backyard breeders" and in either case are outside the control of any breed club or registry organization. > Until such time as the dog world accepts responsibility for its own direction > dog owners will remain at the mercy of knee jerk reactions from those > empowered to make laws As in the much discussed German case, no doubt, where one gets the impression the authorities deliberately refrained from interfering with the activities of a known multiply convicted criminal, in the hope (eventually realized) that he would get somebody injured or killed and so trigger a bunch of basically unsound regulations which had already been prepared in advance ... Another aspect of this concerns human rather than canine behavior. As a child, 60 odd years ago, I was brought up to respect strange dogs, and not to touch or approach them except at the invitation of the owner or handler. There was a general expectation of sensible behavior. We now live - at least in the U.S. - in a society which attempts to protect everyone from the consequences of their own acts, no matter how foolish or irresponsible. Sensible behavior is no longer expected. John -- Dr. John Burchard Tepe Gawra Salukis http://saluqi.home.netcom.com/ saluqi@ix.netcom.com From: IN%"saluqi@ix.netcom.com" "John Burchard" 28-NOV-2002 16:48:17.77 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied ethology list" CC: Subj: RE: vets & animal welfare David Appleby wrote: > You have sited ‘Calming Signals as studied by the Norwegian Turid Rugaas’. Has this hypothesis yet been subjected to scientific > scrutiny or is it still her opinion? I’m concerned more about the explanation about the explanation of mechanisms involved rather > than the observation of manifestation. I am a native speaker of English and still have difficulty deciphering the meaning of the last sentence above. I read it to mean you are asking for an explanation of "mechanisms" for the action of calming signals, rather than wishing to debate their existence or effectiveness. Is that correct? John -- John Burchard Tepe Gawra Salukis http://saluqi.home.netcom.com/ saluqi@ix.netcom.com From: IN%"saluqi@ix.netcom.com" "John Burchard" 28-NOV-2002 16:49:15.41 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied ethology list" CC: Subj: RE: Calming Signals Patricia Simonet wrote: > > Calming Signals > > Hello David, > > It is my understanding that “Calming Signals” are the same as displacement > behaviours. I have been unable to find any published work on calming signals > (aside from Turid Rugaas’ book and video). In that case you may have a somewhat different understanding of "displacement behavior" than I do. Displacement behavior can of course acquire all kinds of "signal" meanings and then become formalized into a communication element; but I believe the converse is not inevitably true, i.e. communication elements can be manufactured out of many things, not all of them displacement behaviors. Simple turning away from a potentially aggressive encounter can, for example, have a powerful signal value as appeasement in many species; but such turning away is not a "displacement activity" as that is ordinarily understood. In the usual concept of "displacement activity" the animal suddenly does something which at first glance seems quite irrelevant to the social context in which it is performed ... this was described in some of the early papers as a "sparking over" of "energy" from one behavior system to another quite different one. Many examples are described in the classical literature of ethology ... the preening of male ducks during courtship, which has been ritualized in various ways and sometimes even led to the evolution of special feather structures to give visual emphasis to the movements, is as good an illustration as any. John -- John Burchard Tepe Gawra Salukis http://saluqi.home.netcom.com/ saluqi@ix.netcom.com From: IN%"appleby@petbcent.demon.co.uk" "David Appleby" 28-NOV-2002 18:01:34.77 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied ethology list" CC: Subj: RE: vets & animal welfare Dear John, Firstly my apologies for the typo repetition of 'about the explanation'. In answer to your question; I was questioning the mechanisms (internal) that lead to the postures that have been interpreted as calming signals. Hopefully subsequent e-mails in this thread have clarified various lines of thought. Best wishes. David ---------------------------------------- Name: David Appleby MSc Address: The Pet Behaviour Centre, Upper Street, Defford, Worcestershire. WR8 9AB. England. Phone: +44(0)1386 750615 Fax: +44(0)1386 750743 E-mail: appleby@petbcent.demon.co.uk WWW: http://www.petbcent.demon.co.uk ---------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: John Burchard [mailto:saluqi@ix.netcom.com] Sent: 27 November 2002 16:12 To: Applied ethology list Subject: Re: vets & animal welfare David Appleby wrote: > You have sited 'Calming Signals as studied by the Norwegian Turid Rugaas'. Has this hypothesis yet been subjected to scientific > scrutiny or is it still her opinion? I'm concerned more about the explanation about the explanation of mechanisms involved rather > than the observation of manifestation. I am a native speaker of English and still have difficulty deciphering the meaning of the last sentence above. I read it to mean you are asking for an explanation of "mechanisms" for the action of calming signals, rather than wishing to debate their existence or effectiveness. Is that correct? John -- John Burchard Tepe Gawra Salukis http://saluqi.home.netcom.com/ saluqi@ix.netcom.com From: IN%"canine.education@bigpond.com.au" "Canine Education and Behaviour Research" 29-NOV-2002 00:17:21.70 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Dangerous dogs Hi Jon Re the DMA it is actually only done on dogs over 12 months hence it is not so much a predictive type test as an assessment of what you actually have. In this regards it does allow for breeders to have an established bench mark. I do also wholeheartedly agree with you that handler error/ownership style etc has a huge impact on the dog and was not trying to understate that, rather suggesting that if the KC were to implement something like the DMA as a test of mentality it would be a proactive move on their behalf which would clearly demonstrate to the public that they are taking all reasonable steps to insure that all dogs who are bred from or compete are sound Take care Iain Macdonald "Canine Education and Behavioural Research" Sth Gippsland Hwy Lang Lang Victoria Australia 3984 Phone: (61) 3 59975575 Mobile: 0419205120 ICQ: 165558291 canine.education@bigpond.com.au rrenroc@bigpond.com.au From: IN%"israel@sitandstay.com" 29-NOV-2002 08:12:44.99 To: IN%"canine.education@bigpond.com.au" "Canine Education and Behaviour Research", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Dangerous dogs Two studies regarding the correlation between owner's personality and dog aggression: Dodman NH, Moon R, Zelin M. Influence of owner personality type on expression and treatment outcome of dominance aggression in dogs. J Am Vet Med Assoc 1996 Sep 15;209(6):1107-9 Podberscek AL, Serpell JA. Aggressive behaviour in English cocker spaniels and the personality of their owners. Vet Rec 1997 Jul 19;141(3):73-6 -----Original Message----- From: Canine Education and Behaviour Research [mailto:canine.education@bigpond.com.au] Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 1:29 AM To: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Subject: Re: Dangerous dogs Hi Jon Re the DMA it is actually only done on dogs over 12 months hence it is not so much a predictive type test as an assessment of what you actually have. In this regards it does allow for breeders to have an established bench mark. I do also wholeheartedly agree with you that handler error/ownership style etc has a huge impact on the dog and was not trying to understate that, rather suggesting that if the KC were to implement something like the DMA as a test of mentality it would be a proactive move on their behalf which would clearly demonstrate to the public that they are taking all reasonable steps to insure that all dogs who are bred from or compete are sound Take care Iain Macdonald "Canine Education and Behavioural Research" Sth Gippsland Hwy Lang Lang Victoria Australia 3984 Phone: (61) 3 59975575 Mobile: 0419205120 ICQ: 165558291 canine.education@bigpond.com.au rrenroc@bigpond.com.au From: IN%"margory@rcn.com" "margory cohen" 29-NOV-2002 13:11:47.58 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: post re Re: Dangerous dogs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sit & Stay" Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 6:12 AM Subject: RE: Dangerous dogs > > Two studies regarding the correlation between owner's personality and dog > aggression: > > > Dodman NH, Moon R, Zelin M. Influence of owner personality type on > expression and treatment outcome of dominance aggression in dogs. J Am Vet > Med Assoc 1996 Sep 15;209(6):1107-9 > > Podberscek AL, Serpell JA. Aggressive behaviour in English cocker spaniels > and the personality of their owners. Vet Rec 1997 Jul 19;141(3):73-6 > margory cohen wrote in: Thank you for the cites. Please would you be so kind to introduce yourself? Your post had no signature. -margory cohen Scottish Deerhounds San Francisco From: IN%"israel@sitandstay.com" 29-NOV-2002 13:32:18.53 To: IN%"margory@rcn.com" "margory cohen", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: post re Re: Dangerous dogs Margory, I realized that after I sent the post. My apologies. I'm a staff behaviorist and trainer at the Brookline Animal Hospital in Massachusetts. I've been working with pets (mostly dogs, but cats and birds as well) for about 17 years now. I also own a private practice named Sit & Stay which offers behavior consultations and clicker training classes for dogs. Regards, Israel Meir ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sit & Stay" Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 6:12 AM Subject: RE: Dangerous dogs > > Two studies regarding the correlation between owner's personality and dog > aggression: > > > Dodman NH, Moon R, Zelin M. Influence of owner personality type on > expression and treatment outcome of dominance aggression in dogs. J Am Vet > Med Assoc 1996 Sep 15;209(6):1107-9 > > Podberscek AL, Serpell JA. Aggressive behaviour in English cocker spaniels > and the personality of their owners. Vet Rec 1997 Jul 19;141(3):73-6 > margory cohen wrote in: Thank you for the cites. Please would you be so kind to introduce yourself? Your post had no signature. -margory cohen Scottish Deerhounds San Francisco From: IN%"swilkins@idx.com.au" "Susan Wilkins" 29-NOV-2002 15:52:48.02 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Calming Signals Hi John, There are many examples of 'displacement' behaviours in humans, such as tv presenters rubbing their noses! (a good indication that they are under some sort of stress!) or when we are doing some form of stress, we chew our nails or pull our hair. These are 'out of context; behaviours that we exhibit when we are under duress and are similar to the displacement behaviours - behaviours out of context - that we observe in dogs. Do they have a communicative value? If I observe displacement behaviours in dogs, the first thing I do is stop the training session, or move the dog away from the environment to reduce his stress. Do displacement behaviours have communicative value vis a vis other dogs, I don't know and would be interested to read studies. Close scrutiny of Turid's book "Calming Signals", shows that both appeasement behaviours, which have a strong communicative value, are mixed and matched with displacement behaviours, which may have no canine communicate value.(as someone said recently - until research is done...). I don't agree that if a dog is showing displacement behaviour, such as yawning, that we should stand and yawn back at the dog as suggested in the book. IMO we should take immediate steps to reduce whatever is stressful for the dog. Patricia writes snip>> > > It is my understanding that "Calming Signals" are the same as displacement > > behaviours. I have been unable to find any published work on calming signals > > (aside from Turid Rugaas' book and video). Susan >> Descriptions can be found in various behaviour texts (some references have already been sent in). The English word is 'pacifying' or 'cut-off" signals. However, if we look in the dictionary, 'calming and pacifying' are similar in meaning, and may explain why 'the word 'calming' has been chosen. I do think it is necessary to try to identify and separate displacement behaviours from appeasement behaviours if we are to better understand and interpret to the best of our knowledge what the dog is doing . Perhaps the term "Calming Signals" is better suited to appeasement behaviours. John writes > Simple turning away from a potentially aggressive encounter can, for example, > have a powerful signal value as appeasement in many species; but such turning > away is not a "displacement activity" as that is ordinarily understood. Susan >> I think that is correct. For example a dog will exhibit a whole repetoire of appeasement behaviours in that above situation, all intended to convey a strong message to the aggressor, whose behaviour in turn, should change to non aggression, i.e. the communication has had the desired effect. I've given this subject a lot of thought since reading Dr. Suzanne Hett's book " Pet Behaviour Protocols" because I had a number of reservations about some protocols advised in "Calming Signals" - It's great that the subject is being openly discussed on this list. Thanks... Susan Wilkins, Sydney Australia Accredited Behavioural Dog Trainer Member APDT USA & Australia --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 3/10/02 From: IN%"rondog@btinternet.com" "Jon Bowen" 30-NOV-2002 03:38:58.86 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied ethology list" CC: Subj: RE: aggressive dogs I don't think that you should seek help from an internet list on dog training or aggression. To do so would be dangerous because it is impossible to assess a dog like this over the internet. I would also worry about the competence of anyone who would give advice on an aggressive dog that has already bitten without seeing and assessing it. It would be far better and safer to contact your veterinary surgeon and seek an immediate referral to a qualified professional behaviourist with experience in treating aggressive dogs. Your dog may also have some sort of medical problem and so he needs to be thoroughly checked out before treatment. Jon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Burchard" To: "Applied ethology list" Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 6:43 AM Subject: Re: aggressive dogs > "Jennifer C. Renner" wrote: > > > Hello everyone. I've been a passive member of the listserve for about a > > year now and have noted some interesting postings regarding dogs and > > behavioral problems. I have a question of my own regarding aggression > > and am wondering if anyone might be able to help. > > > > I am a PhD student of animal learning and behavior and study numerical > > competence in pigeons. Despite this training, I have a rather > > embarassing problem with one of my own pets. He's a 2 1/2 year old German > > Spitz (also known as American Eskimo in the US) that I acquired as a part > > of an adoption just over a year ago. He's a wonderful dog, however, he's > > terribly aggressive toward strangers and individuals that he's met for the > > first time. I've been told that they're known to be an aggressive breed, > > however, it seems that his behavior is out of control. He's attempted to > > bite me, for example, when someone (e.g., delivery person, friend, > > etc.) calls by my home, often not letting me past him to get through the > > door. I've tried positive reinforcement, a shock coller and even just > > leaving the room, ignoring his behavior, however, nothing seems to have > > worked. Is anyone aware of any literature or training techniques that I > > might attempt to apply in order to curb his aggression? Is there a chance > > he might "grow out of it," or should I be concerned about the problem > > becoming worse? > > You should be concerned. I strongly recommend you sign up for the Canine > Aggression list, whose core members consist of a number of dog trainers > specialized in dealing with such problems, and present your question there. > That is a Yahoogroups list at "canineaggression@yahoogroups.com" and AFAIK you > can subscribe by going to the Yahoogroups web site > (http://www.yahoogroups.com/), registering yourself with a Yahoogroups identity > and password, and then joining the canineaggression list. > > John > -- > John Burchard > Tepe Gawra Salukis > http://saluqi.home.netcom.com/ > saluqi@ix.netcom.com