From: IN%"Heeler@aol.com" 15-NOV-1996 15:49:28.58 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: play behaviour In a message dated 96-11-14 13:20:58 EST, you write: > Why don't obese animals and people (with excessive >energy stores) spend more time playing? Would you rather play a set of tennis weighing 300 lbs or 150 lbs? Just toting all the excess weight around uses up more energy. Cheers, Margie From: IN%"bregman@interactive.net" "Vivian & Mickey Bregman" 15-NOV-1996 16:17:21.86 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Play and aggression... At 03:26 PM 11/15/96 -0400, you wrote: <<>>> Sudhindra Gadagkar. > >P.S. Incidentally I have always wondered why my 11 year old son "kills" >me in computer games. > Think of Oedipus. ********************************************************************** * Vivian Bregman and the Border Collies in Scenic Wayne, New Jersey * * Member NADOI & APDT Kelev Canine College, Inc * * bregman@interactive.net * ********************************************************************** From: IN%"Heeler@aol.com" 15-NOV-1996 20:54:13.09 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: play and energy/time budgets In a message dated 96-11-15 08:51:31 EST, you write: >I have some misgivings about the suggestion that the amount of play >engaged in by non-human animals is related to the concentration of energy >in food sources. Available energy is probably the first pre-requisite for play in any animal. Once calorie requirements are met, I think alot of social forces come into play. Pardon the pun. Adult animals use "play" behaviors to establish social position. They may also engage in non-survival behaviors to relieve all kinds of stresses. If you keep a very well-nourished horse in a stall deprived of the chance to interact with other horses, you often find yourself with an animal who adopts lots of non-survival behaviors. Chewing on inappropriate objects is a common problem. People who keep stalled horses who exhibit behaviors like this often provide the horse with an object he can "play" with in his stall that will distract him from chewing up the woodwork. Is this play or isn't it? I'm not sure it is. If the stalled horse is turned out with other horses, he and his new herd will exhibit all kinds of behaviors that look like "play." Or they can look like aggressive/defensive behaviors depending on what your definition of play is. One of my favorite horse trainers has identified 7 games that horses play with each other and has translated them to 7 games humans can play with horses. NONE of them are without serious social messages. We can call them games, but I'm not sure they are. A friend of mine who has Border Collies says that they NEVER play. All that playful-looking behavior is deadly serious to them. And I suspect that's true for many of us. Cheers, Margie From: IN%"Heeler@aol.com" 16-NOV-1996 18:37:00.71 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Stop messing around In a message dated 96-11-15 18:32:06 EST, you write: >. I'm not sure how >the things which we describe as play differ either mechinistically or >functionally from simple forms of associative learning in the development of >adaptive responses to the environment. > > I'm not sure it is either. Thanks for clarifying my thinking. Cheers, Margie From: IN%"quinlan@bendnet.com" "George Quinlan" 17-NOV-1996 11:20:31.73 To: IN%"l.galhardo@ip.pt", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Reptile feeding requirements Dear Leonor In response to you questions of live food for snakes, Have you tried pre-killing your small mammels. While with the Boston Zoological Society, we always killed the rats just before feeding so that the body temp. was still high. This was for the safety of the snake as well as the stress for the rat. This was easier on the visiters seeing a dead rodent or chick and easier for them to explain the their children. Rats and mice have been known to eat the eyes of the snakes if not consumed by the well fed reptile. Also, it wasn't pleasant to watch the rodent and waiting for the snake to eat, making sure this would not happen. When I had a snake come to me that was use to live food, I would use tongs to hold the dead animal and make small movements to stimulate the snake to strike. After a while the hungry animal ate pr-killed with no problems. Give it a try! Please send me the results! quinlan@bendnet,com All About Dogs Behavior and Training Center George Phillip Quinlan From: IN%"gadagkar@is2.dal.ca" "Sudhindra Gadagkar" 17-NOV-1996 14:13:18.61 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: kinship and play/aggression In response to my earlier posting regarding young fish, aggression and play, Heather J. Billings wrote: Are the young fish you study all related? I wonder if the differences between fish really harming one another and kittens not doing so could be due to relatedness. Perhaps young fish disperse so quickly that the chances not only of meeting another fish are slim, but that the chances of meeting kin are even more slim. I know very little about fish, so perhaps you could clear that up for me. I think comparisons with fish could provide an interesting evolutionary perspective on play behavior. Thanks, Heather Billings **************************************************************************** Heather J. Billings Dept. of Animal Sciences Cook College, Rutgers University BILLINGS@AESOP.RUTGERS.EDU **************************************************************************** Dear Heather, You bring up a subject that has always fascinated me: kin recognition among animals. As to your specific query, in my study, a fish that was tested for aggression was always paired either with a full-sib or a half-sib (step brother/sister). I have used DNA fingerprinting to identify the parentage of one member randomly chosen from each pair, and so am unable to say if aggression was more, less or equally intense when the fish encountered a half-sib when compared to a full-sib. Another thing relevant to your point is that these fish are mouth brooders, and so in the wild, all the eggs from a single brood are incubated in the mouth of the mother. Upon hatching the young emerge out of the mouth into the water, but upon any sign of danger, back they go into the mouth. All the young of a brood thus spend a few days in fairly close (quite cramped sometimes, actually) quarters. Does this period of close proximity result in some sort of kin recognition? Fascinating, but I don't know. Would love to find out. In my experiments, I manually stripped the eggs and milt (sperm) off the parents, fertilized them in a petri dish and incubated them in a flask. Actually I fertilized the eggs of each female that I bred with the sperm from four different males, and incubated them separately, and pooled them upon hatching. So full sibs spent time with each other in small flask until hatching, and with these full sibs as well as half-sibs, in an aquarium, upon hatching. So, yes, it would extremely interesting to genotype the other member of each pair, and to see if there is some pattern in aggressive behaviour that is related to genetic distance. But, while the samples and the motivation are there, what is not there is time and money (got to finish my Ph.D in a few months!). Maybe a post-doc. Thanks for bringing it up. Sudhindra ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sudhindra R. Gadagkar Dept. of Biology, Dalhousie University Halifax, NS, B3H 4J1 Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IN%"AHUMPHR@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU" 17-NOV-1996 15:42:55.10 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: introduction Hi, my name is Abigail Humphreys. I am currently a senior at the university of toledo, ohio. Although I will not graduate until June of 1998. I am studying for a B.S. in biology. My interest is in the area of conservation and I am hoping eventually to work in a zoo or an aquarium on conservation projects linked to the species survival plan. I intend to go on to get a masters degree but I am currently undecided as to whether I want to study animal behavior/ethology or marine biology. There are wonderful studies being done with the behavior of endangered species in the wild and captivity to determine how to increase mating productivity and how to make the captive environment more natural for the animals. I don't know very much currently about applied ethology or where a good place to study it is. I would be grateful for any information or encouragement. Any books, journals, to read. Programs to look into. Relevant experiences people are willing to share. Or possible careers in animal behavior. Essentially anything that would help me explore this field or decide if it is something I want to pursue further. messages, information can be sent to AHUMPHR@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU OR abigail humphreys 624 acklin ave toledo, oh 43620 From: IN%"tabbott@chat.carleton.ca" "tracey abbott" 18-NOV-1996 08:37:17.31 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: IN%"tabbott@wabakimi.carleton.ca" Subj: re:introduction > Hi, > my name is Abigail Humphreys. I am currently a senior at the > university of toledo, ohio. Although I will not graduate until June of 1998. > I am studying for a B.S. in biology. My interest is in the area of > conservation and I am hoping eventually to work in a zoo or an aquarium on > conservation projects linked to the species survival plan. > I don't know very much currently about applied ethology or where a > good place to study it is. I would be grateful for any information or > encouragement. Any books, journals, to read. Programs to look into. > Relevant experiences people are willing to share. Or possible careers in > animal behavior. Essentially anything that would help me explore this field > or decide if it is something I want to pursue further. Hi everyone, I am presently completing a Psychology Honours degree at Carleton University in Ottawa, Canada. I, too, am very interested in applied ethology and animal behaviour. I will be graduating in April, but I am unsure as to whether I should go to graduate school right away or whether I should begin a B.A. or B.Sc in Biology. All I know is that I want to study and help animals. I would appreciate any suggestions and relevant information regarding applied ethology and animal behaviour. I am especially interested in information on careers and on relevant graduate schools in Canada. Thanks in advance. Please send information to: tabbott@chat.carleton.ca OR PH 4 1380 Prince of Wales Drive Ottawa, Ontario Canada K2C 3N5 ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Tracey Abbott The time will come when men such as I look Carleton University upon the murder of animals as they Psychology IV now look upon the murder of men. Loeb C562 -Leonardo da Vinci tabbott@chat.carleton.ca "I'll let you be in my dream, if I can be in yours." -Bob Dylan ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ From: IN%"siobhan.abeyesinghe@bbsrc.ac.uk" "Siobhan.Abeyesinghe" 19-NOV-1996 05:41:22.97 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Introduction Hello, I have just subscribed to the applied ethology network and would like to introduce myself. My name is Siobhan Abeyesinghe and I'm a first year PhD student looking at the responses of broiler chickens to multiple (transport) stressors. I will be adopting a mainly ethological approach to investigate the effects of temperature and vibration (initially) on bird welfare. However these stressors have differing time constants in their effects; ie vibration may have an immediate effect on the bird and temperature may take longer. Therefore I have been struggling a little to find a technique which allows me to look at both stressors independantly and their interaction. I would be grateful for any comments or suggestions Thanks for your time! From: IN%"tenderly@ltk.unizh.ch" "Matthias Duerschlag" 19-NOV-1996 08:54:11.06 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: evasion - escape problems Dear applied-ethologists, I have some problems defining the terms evasion and escape. Whats the difference between successfull evasion and escape. My uneducated opinion would be: no difference I would say evasion is a good description for the behavioural sequence (as a possible reaction to an attack). whereas escape would include an implication of the result (the success). Lets turn it a bit to get another point of view: evasion can (CAN!) be defined as an attempt to escape. Nonsens? Enlighten my mind! Many thanks Matthias ___________________________________________________________________ Matthias Duerschlag Department of Animal-Physiology University of Bayreuth / NW 1 95440 Bayreuth / FRGermany phone: x49-921-55.24.04 Fax: x49-921-55.27.94 Email: tenderly@ltk.unizh.ch ___________________________________________________________________ From: IN%"sed1499@ed.sac.ac.uk" 19-NOV-1996 10:04:19.97 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: a problem behaviour in dogs I have a few questions to ask my fellow applied ethologists. My dog (golden lab) back home tends to chase cars, or jump out at cars. This is quite a problem because we have already lost one dog through this (other she might have been motivated by other factors such as the lure to mate - she was quite randy!). I have heard that that it is occasionally a problem that dogs may jump out and chase cyclists. 1. Has anyone heard of this chasing behaviour being a problem? 2. Do you think (have you any evidence) that this chasing behaviour is related to a behavioural need? Will dogs restrained and frustrated in their task to chase, chase to a greater extent when let off the lead, will the incidence of car chasing increase? If continually frustrated, will we get any redirected behaviour being expressed? 3. Since wild dogs and wolves hunt in packs; do you think that the presence of other dogs will increase the incidence of car chasing? (How might this be tested, would we just be measuring social facilitation?) Lets make this our next discussion topic. From: IN%"richards@hula.net" 19-NOV-1996 12:30:54.88 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: a problem behavior in dogs (chasing) I have a problem similar to Steve's, in that my lab mix (male, altered) chases cars. Apparently he was run over by a car when he was a stray puppy, and he still goes after them. He is always on the lead (I don't dare let him roam with such a dangerous habit), but as he weighs 98 lbs., this can be a danger to me also. He tends to chase anything that moves (cats, birds, horses, mongoose, leaves, etc) but his behavior is much more intense with cars. When with other dogs, he exhibits the same behavior, but the other dogs are not compelled to join in. My dog-opwning neighbors are convinced that he does it because he was run over by a car (!), but it seems likely he was run over as a result of the chasing behavior. Steve, as I don't allow him to chase cars, we might think of the behavior as frustrated, but I don't see any redirected behavior being expressed (at least that I can see). Perhaps there is a bit of herding behavior at work? FWIW, Dawn From: IN%"bregman@interactive.net" "Vivian & Mickey Bregman" 19-NOV-1996 13:41:54.32 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: a problem behaviour in dogs At 04:05 PM 11/19/96 +0000, you wrote: > >I have a few questions to ask my fellow applied ethologists. > >My dog (golden lab) back home tends to chase cars, or jump out at cars. This is quite a >problem because we have already lost one dog through this (other she might >have been motivated by other factors such as the lure to mate - she was >quite randy!). I have heard that that it is occasionally a problem that >dogs may jump out and chase cyclists. > >1. Has anyone heard of this chasing behaviour being a problem? The chasing behavior is a real problem. Certainly it was to your first dog. You lost her. (I gather that this means she died?!?) >2. Do you think (have you any evidence) that this chasing behaviour is >related to a behavioural need? Will dogs restrained and frustrated in >their task to chase, chase to a greater extent when let off the lead, will >the incidence of car chasing increase? If continually frustrated, will we >get any redirected behaviour being expressed? Some dogs, especially the hunting breeds, will chase anything that moves. Since the cars and the cyclists are in motion, the dog chases. Dogs can, however, be trained to not chase. Or they can be kept on a leash. >3. Since wild dogs and wolves hunt in packs; do you think that the >presence of other dogs will increase the incidence of car chasing? (How >might this be tested, would we just be measuring social facilitation?) It is a well known fact that dogs who, alone, will not chase sheep, will kill sheep when in a pack. I'm afraid that testing might cause injury to the tested dogs if you're talking about car chasing behavior. This happens to be a sore point with me. Dogs do not need to run at large to be happy. Dogs need exercise, not freedom. I will now get down off my soap box. Sorry, but you asked. Vivian ********************************************************************** * Vivian Bregman and the Border Collies in Scenic Wayne, New Jersey * * Member NADOI & APDT Kelev Canine College, Inc * * bregman@interactive.net * ********************************************************************** From: IN%"TAYLORA@EM.AGR.CA" "Allison Taylor" 19-NOV-1996 13:59:50.41 To: IN%"sed1499@ed.sac.ac.uk", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: a problem behaviour in dogs -Reply Well, in my experience, car chasing tends to be related to a high predator/prey-catching drive, which is largely inherited. It can be compounded by arousal factors at the time, such as the presence of other dogs (either in the chased car, or as co-chasers, etc). Plus, the behaviour tends to be reinforced because the chase is fun, and the dog always "wins", in that the car leaves. It is a serious problem, given the potentially fatal side-effects, which you have already experienced with your previous dog. I would recommend addressing it swiftly and definitely. In treating such a dog, I would emphasize basic obedience, adequate exercise under safe conditions, and systematic desensitization to cars passing, with lots of positive reinforcement. Time consuming, and prob only moderately successful for the above-mentioned reasons. "Come" is among the hardest things we ever teach a dog, because it is, in reality, a very complex beh (requires the dog to stop what it is doing, which may be very reinforcing in itself, and which also may vary every time). Hard to get the animal to generalize. Hence the difficulties in proofing the skill. Ian Dunbar has a neat way of getting car chasers to stop. He blocks off the street, borrows a minivan, engages the help of neighbours, and sets up the following scenario. Driver is a friend. Passenger seat is occupied by someone whose only job is to watch the dog to make sure it doesn't get hit. Primary owner is poised by the big door of the van, with 3-4 other people. They cruise slowly by the house, someone lets the dog out at the crucial moment. Predictably, it bolts after the car. Just as the dog reaches the car, the driver halts, and everyone piles out, yelling at the top of their lungs: "ROVER, NO!" or "ROVER, HOME". I have never used this technique, but apparently it is effective bec the dog is not expecting the owner to be in the car, and bec averyone knows his name - both of which are surprising events. Plus, bec the car stops, the reinforcement of the chase is removed. Dunbar says that this usually works in one trial, but can be rep-ed if nec., with slightly different scenarios each time. It's a tough behaviour to quell, as so many of the contributing factors are out of our control. Plus, dogs will be dogs, and we shouldn't ever rely on even (what we believe to be) the most well-trained skills in all situations .. dogs will almost always chase squirrels, and there's not much we can do about it. What we can do is ensure that our animals are safe, by keeping them on a leash or in an enclosed park. Good luck, Allison Allison Taylor, PhD Centre for Food & Animal Research Agriculture & Agri-Food Canada Ottawa, ON taylora@em.agr.ca >>> 11/19/96 12:30pm >>> I have a few questions to ask my fellow applied ethologists. My dog (golden lab) back home tends to chase cars, or jump out at cars. This is quite a problem because we have already lost one dog through this (other she might have been motivated by other factors such as the lure to mate - she was quite randy!). I have heard that that it is occasionally a problem that dogs may jump out and chase cyclists. 1. Has anyone heard of this chasing behaviour being a problem? 2. Do you think (have you any evidence) that this chasing behaviour is related to a behavioural need? Will dogs restrained and frustrated in their task to chase, chase to a greater extent when let off the lead, will the incidence of car chasing increase? If continually frustrated, will we get any redirected behaviour being expressed? 3. Since wild dogs and wolves hunt in packs; do you think that the presence of other dogs will increase the incidence of car chasing? (How might this be tested, would we just be measuring social facilitation?) Lets make this our next discussion topic. From: IN%"Heeler@aol.com" 19-NOV-1996 16:45:19.95 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: evasion - escape problems In a message dated 96-11-19 10:49:15 EST, you write: >I have some problems defining the terms evasion and escape. > >Whats the difference between successfull evasion and escape. > > My uneducated opinion would be: no difference > I'm probably just as undeducated, but here's my sense of it. An animal ESCAPES an aversive stimulus by offering a behavior that turns the aversive off. He must first experience the aversive to turn it off. An animal evades (or avoids) an aversive stimulus by offering the behavior in response to a cue that that tells him the aversive stimulus is about to be delivered. Cheers, Margie, NY From: IN%"tonygdog@iinet.net.au" "Tony Walker" 19-NOV-1996 22:56:20.99 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Introduction Hello My name is Tony Walker and I live in Perth, Western Australia. I have several interests which touch on Ethology. I am a Senior Trainer with a local Obedience Training Club with in excess of 1,200 members and have been involved with obedience training for 18 years. I am also the President of the recently founded Dog Trainers Association of Western Australia (Inc). The Association has been established both to educate and grade dog trainers in this State. We shall be looking for trainers to be able to demonstrate a knowlege of Canine Behaviour as well as an ability to instruct groups and individuals to a given standard. To assist our members we are seeking, particularly, correspondence courses. We have a local Technical College which offers a basic Animal Behaviour course, which I have completed, but would be interested in any further suggestions. Being semi-retired I have been lucky enough to have been able to work closely with a number of local Animal Behaviourists but look to extend my own knowledge and exchange views. Many thanks. Tony From: IN%"k9acad@iafrica.com" 20-NOV-1996 01:17:25.44 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"sed1499@ed.sac.ac.uk" CC: Subj: RE: a problem behaviour in dogs Dear "fellow applied ethologist" > I have a few questions to ask my fellow applied ethologists. > > My dog (golden lab) back home tends to chase cars, or jump out at cars. This > is quite a > problem because we have already lost one dog through this (other she might > have been motivated by other factors such as the lure to mate - she was > quite randy!). I have heard that that it is occasionally a problem that > dogs may jump out and chase cyclists. > > 1. Has anyone heard of this chasing behaviour being a problem? Yes it is a common problem when boundries (fencing and gates) are inadequate around the property. As for luring a mate by chasing bicycles ... someone is having you on! And if in fact your dog is "randy" have her spayed and that will sort out that problem. > 2. Do you think (have you any evidence) that this chasing behaviour is > related to a behavioural need? Will dogs restrained and frustrated in > their task to chase, chase to a greater extent when let off the lead, will > the incidence of car chasing increase? If continually frustrated, will we > get any redirected behaviour being expressed? > Yes, she will probably commit suicide under a car - like your other dog did? GLYNNE ANDERSON k9acad@iafrica.com From: IN%"u8421ac@lrz.uni-muenchen.de" 20-NOV-1996 01:37:37.26 To: IN%"richards@hula.net", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: chasing Dear Dawn, car chasing is quite common in dogs. Usually, it`s explained as predatory behavior, which is basically inherited (especially in game dogs). Learning plays an important role either, since the chasing itself must be rewarding to the dog. If the dog was hit by a car earlier, I would assume that the dog reacts fearfully. It is unlikely that an accident induced the behaviour. For prevention of further damage, I would recommend to try a systematic desensitization / counter conditioning program! Best wishes, Petra ______________ Dr. P.A. Mertens Institute for Ethology and Animal Welfare Ludwig-Maximilians-University Munich School of Veterinary Medicine Schwere-Reiter-Str. 9 80797 Muenchen petra.mertens@lrz.uni-muenchen.de From: IN%"Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "CM. Sherwin" 20-NOV-1996 06:16:29.30 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: aggression in juveniles Dear All, 3-D I would like to add to the comments of Dr Gadagkar on aggression amongst young animals. I recently started a study on the behaviour and production of commercial meat turkeys. For this study, I obtained 450 turkeys on the day of hatching. I noticed while I was removing them from the crates to place them in the experimental rooms, many of them were pecking each other. Some of the pecking was directed at the eyes, but there was also much pecking at the wings, head and snood (a fleshy projection from the forehead), resulting in the pecked turkey giving a distress squeak and attempting to move away. After being released into the experimental rooms, they would on occasion grab the wing of another chick and drag it several centimetres. By 3 days of age, the birds were regularly giving characteristic threat displays to each other and within 10 days, were regularly showing courtship displays! Within 2 weeks, several individuals had died due to feather pecking/cannibalism/aggression. The obvious question is "why do juvenile turkeys behave so aggressively?" Pecking at the eyes might be mistaken pecking for water or food. From a very early age, poultry spp. peck at almost any small object or shiny surface to learn what can be eaten and drunk; possibly, an eye glinting in the light is perceived as a potential food or water source. However, the other forms of pecking can not be explained so readily. It was unlikely to have been food competition as food was readily available scattered about on the floor, and I believe (please correct me if I am wrong), newly hatched chicks possess a food-sac, developed as an embryo which can satisfy their nutritional requirements for 3 days post-hatching. The only other animal I am aware of in which aggression amongst juveniles appears to be so extreme on a regular basis, and on occasions fatal, is between piglets. (I have been told of a paper describing RsiblingacideS by Hyenas, but I have not yet located the reference). Does anyone have any further information on aggression amongst juveniles? It would be interesting to ascertain the genotype of these turkeys. With the widespread use of artificial insemination in the turkey industry, it is possible that many of these turkeys were related and perhaps even had the same father. As suggested by others, this should decrease aggression, at least for those closely related individuals. On the other hand, during artificial selection, we might have inadvertently selected for animals which are inappropriately aggressive, even from a very early age. Regards Chris Sherwin University of Bristol From: IN%"marie.haskell@bbsrc.ac.uk" "Marie Haskell" 20-NOV-1996 09:28:32.88 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: aggression in juveniles Dear Chris, How are things in the deep South? A little warmer than the frozen North I hope! Your note about aggression in young turkeys reminded me of a talk given by a bloke called H. Drummond at the IED in Torremolinos. It was all to do with inter-offspring rivalry in the nest, which sometimes led to siblicide. Maybe the BIDS would lead you from the name to some references. Did you see that programme on the BBC called Animal Cannibals last week? It showed cannabalism in all animals from squirrels and gerbils, marsh harriers (inter offspring), and gulls (adults eating chicks) to chimps. Well, I hope that was of some help! Regards, Marie Haskell Roslin Institute, Roslin marie.haskell@bbsrc.ac.uk From: IN%"102234.510@CompuServe.COM" "Sabine Van den Weghe" 20-NOV-1996 09:44:51.26 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" "INTERNET:applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: poultry transports Dear Siobhan, do you know Julia I.Behrends in Bedford, UK? Perhaps she is a collegue of yours because she presented a paper about the influence of vertical vibrations during transport onto the behaviour of broilers in Germany in November. Greetings Sabine Van den Weghe From: IN%"billcamp@cdsnet.net" 20-NOV-1996 12:18:51.24 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Car chasing Greetings from Oregon, I have found most car chasing to be driven by territorial protection vs a predatory behavior. When I practiced in L.A. in the 70s I took many dedicated, furious chaser away from their neighborhoods to mine, where we tested them in controlled circumstances. Lo... no chasing, even of the very same car they chased in their home territory. Only one dog out of several dozen had generalized his defensive drive to strange. However, if I walked the dogs out front in the street and allowed them to urinate up, down and across the street, within two days they were chasing with the same zeal as back home. With this in mind, I devised the following plan that has been used successfully since the 70s. It is one of our BehavioRx Client Education instruction brochures, and it stresses owner responsibility, leadership and more owner responsibility. Bill Campbell THE LAW AND YOU Most communities have leash laws. Check with your authorities. Get a full explanation of the penalties and risks assumed when a dog is allowed to run about freely and causes injury through chasing. The chilling consequences have led to financial ruin for some owners. With this in mind, undertake the following program as a safeguard against a time when, through no fault of your own, your dog may get the urge and take the opportunity to chase. It is no guarantee, but it has helped many dog owners rest more comfortably when they see their pets develop self-control, sometimes even ignoring cars or other things they once chased. If your dog is an escape artist, and gets free in the neighborhood, get the BEHAVIORX program for Escaping. Apply it diligently along with this program. FOLLOW-THE-LEADER Most chasers are attempting to drive away 'invaders' from their territories; other dogs seem to make a game of it. In either case, for an effective correction, the dog needs an example of different behavior that is provided by a teacher; a leader. That leadership must come from you and others who live with the pet. This program must be followed strictly if the problem is to be solved. LEADERSHIP FOR THE DOG The first step is to make sure the dog feels that you are a competent leader. To do this, start the learn-to-earn praise and petting exercise. Ask the dog to function for you; to do something each time he seeks attention from you, before you pet him. This can be as simple as telling the dog "(Name) Sit," then petting him briefly with lots of praise. Have the dog remain sitting for at least a few seconds, then release him by saying "Free." Extend the length of time the dog holds the 'sit' from 5 seconds up to at least 2 minutes during a week. Use it before opening doors, putting down food, putting on the leash, etc. In a few days, this 'learn-to-earn' your praise and pets exercise will transmit the message that you are the leader in the relationship. Don't ever withhold petting unless the dog balks at sitting. If that happens, ask again for the 'sit.' If the dog refuses, ignore him and go on with some other activity. He will be back soon because he needs your approval. When you want to pet the dog, do it. But be sure to get the sit first. All normal dogs have social need to work for things, so the 'no free lunch' exercise helps fill that need. It will be virtually impossible to teach your dog to relax and, hence, not chase after things if he won't do anything for you! REMOVE THE CAUSES FOR CHASING There are several activities that can make chasing worse. These must be removed from the environment before undertaking the program. @Walks: If it has been your habit to walk the dog around the neighborhood, this must be stopped prior to and during the first two phases of the program. @Urination: If the dog urinates beyond his line of boundary this also must cease. Otherwise the dog is extending his territory beyond the rightful boundaries and will continue to view cars, etc., as 'invaders.' @Fence-worrying: If your dog has a fence along which he chases or runs, keep him out of that area. MAKING THE SET-UPS The first set-up toward correction is to establish boundaries across which the dog should not stray. This should be anything that is clearly visible; i.e., the side-walk, curb or fence, hedge, etc. Take the dog, on leash for safety's sake, toward that boundary, walking briskly. When within three or four feet of it, shout some word of alarm ('Watch Out!') and abruptly turn around and run back toward the house or other area to which you want the dog to retreat instead of chasing. As you hurry back, praise the dog for coming with you. Repeat the process until, as you approach the boundary, the dog stops and looks at you or back toward the house or yard. Once again, be sure to praise each time as you carry out this procedure. DANGER: WARNING If cars, bikes, runners, skaters, etc. are involved, make sure that you have the situation 'secure.' That is, don't risk having strangers who don't know what you are doing at the wheels of cars or on bikes. Make all setups with people who are aware of the problem and who will cooperate by stopping their vehicles in the event the dog breaks loose. It is also a good idea to put an extension of secure cord on the leash, say twenty feet long, in order to have extra control as you run back toward the safety area ahead of the dog in the initial stages. Never undertake the procedure when risk of injury might be involved. THE FINAL TEST When the dog no longer shows interest in chasing beyond his boundaries, the next step is to deliberately walk him beyond the boundaries in areas where chasing has occurred in the past. Make the same types of setups with friends as at the boundary lines, only in these cases, instead of running back to the home area, simply back away abruptly as before and tell the dog "Sit." Keep this up until the dog sits without your command. At this point, repeat the exercise over a period of six weeks, at least three times a week. Do it in different areas, until you are sure the dog is responding without your 'cues' to back up and sit. When this happens, the dog is developing self-control. PERMANENT PRACTICES When you feel confident the dog has lost interest in chasing, you may want to resume walks in the neighborhood. This is OK, but don't allow the dog to urinate or defecate off his territory: Otherwise old territorial feelings can be revived and chasing may erupt again. In fairness to neighbors, joggers, cars, bikes, etc., this is a small luxury for the dog to give up. And the joy of turning the terror of the street into a well-behaved dog will be your reward! From: IN%"BOP96MM@sheffield.ac.uk" "M.Marchesan" 20-NOV-1996 12:46:44.47 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: new presence Dear Everyone. I am Mara Marchesan, a first year PhD student in behavioural ecology at the University of Sheffield. I am particularly interested in topics regarding sexual selection, evolution of different mating systems, and adaptive significance of breeding strategies performed by different individuals/populations/species. In my research project I will investigate the effects of operational sex ratio variations on sexual selection and mating strategies in the feral pigeon. Looking forward to interesting discussions, I send you all Best wishes, Mara Marchesan Dep. of Animal and Plant Sciences The University, Sheffield From: IN%"billcamp@cdsnet.net" 20-NOV-1996 13:13:14.03 To: IN%"David_Ruslander@vapower.com" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: YOUR EAT-DOWN HORSE Here's a real poser? Any ISAE thoughts? Dear Dave, Sorry about the delay, but I had to wait for Bob Miller, DVM to get back from Argentina to talk to him about your problem. He's never ever heard of the behavior you describe. In saddle, with green rider, yes to rolling, but no to being on halter and actually eating while down or sitting. >______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ >Subject: Re: my horse >Author: billcamp@cdsnet.net (Bill Campbell) at Internet >Date: 10/29/96 10:17 AM >> >>Hello Bill, I have a six year old gelding Thoroughbred. Yesterday, for the >>first time, while he was grazing with me holding his lead he laid down in a >>patch of clover as if to roll but instead laid on his chest and stomach and >>began to graze. At first I thought it was really cute but when he did it >>the third time it scared me. I checked his tongue and comes to see if they >>were pale but they were fine, his eyes were fine, and when I put him back >>in the pasture he seemed fine. Any idea what might cause this behavior? >> >> Thanks >> Dave>> >Hi Dave, > >I haven't a clue what possessed your gelding. How long did he remain in that >position and continue eating? If you can forward that info to me, I'll put >it on the ISAE forum and see what we get back. > >Kindest regards, > >Bill Bill > Thanks Bill, he stayed on the ground for 2 or 3 minutes each time. On > the third time when he went down he laid his head down and kind of > rubbed his neck on the grass then laid still for 30 seconds or so > before sitting up to graze. I was thinking that he may have swallowed > a few fallen leaves and go a little colicie but it cleared; though > eating while down is a mystery. Thanks for your response. > Dave > > From: IN%"billcamp@cdsnet.net" 20-NOV-1996 13:15:37.80 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Here's a real poser? Any ISAE thoughts? Dear Dave, Sorry about the delay, but I had to wait for Bob Miller, DVM to get back from Argentina to talk to him about your problem. He's never ever heard of the behavior you describe. In saddle, with green rider, yes to rolling, but no to being on halter and actually eating while down or sitting. >______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ >Subject: Re: my horse >Author: billcamp@cdsnet.net (Bill Campbell) at Internet >Date: 10/29/96 10:17 AM >> >>Hello Bill, I have a six year old gelding Thoroughbred. Yesterday, for the >>first time, while he was grazing with me holding his lead he laid down in a >>patch of clover as if to roll but instead laid on his chest and stomach and >>began to graze. At first I thought it was really cute but when he did it >>the third time it scared me. I checked his tongue and comes to see if they >>were pale but they were fine, his eyes were fine, and when I put him back >>in the pasture he seemed fine. Any idea what might cause this behavior? >> >> Thanks >> Dave>> >Hi Dave, > >I haven't a clue what possessed your gelding. How long did he remain in that >position and continue eating? If you can forward that info to me, I'll put >it on the ISAE forum and see what we get back. > >Kindest regards, > >Bill > Bill > Thanks Bill, he stayed on the ground for 2 or 3 minutes each time. On > the third time when he went down he laid his head down and kind of > rubbed his neck on the grass then laid still for 30 seconds or so > before sitting up to graze. I was thinking that he may have swallowed > a few fallen leaves and go a little colicie but it cleared; though > eating while down is a mystery. Thanks for your response. > Dave > From: IN%"Heeler@aol.com" 20-NOV-1996 17:26:46.62 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: aggression in juveniles In a message dated 96-11-20 10:21:52 EST, you write: > I recently started a study on the behaviour and production of commercial >meat turkeys. For this study, I obtained 450 turkeys on the day of >hatching. I noticed while I was removing them from the crates to place >them in the experimental rooms, many of them were pecking each other. I know next to nothing about turkeys, but I DO know that crowding is a common cause of aggression in many animals--including humans. I seem to recall reading that commercial poultry producers clip beaks for this reason. Gobble, Gobble, Margie, NY From: IN%"STOOKEY@sask.usask.ca" 20-NOV-1996 17:37:42.07 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Microchip IDs Dear All, I have recently read a news release about a plan to implant microchip IDs into the entire licensed dog population on the island of Singapore (37,000 dogs). I am wondering if anyone is aware of any similar attempts within your country at the national, regional or local level to individually identify the pet population using microchip identification implants. We have a student within our College who has the opportunity to spend the summer in Germany. She would like to conduct a summer research program investigating the use of micorchips in the pet population and the relative "success" of the program. She is attempting to secure funding, but needs to know if microchips are being used in any locations within Germany or neighboring countries. If you are aware of any similar initiatives within your country would you please contact me. Sincerely, Joe ================================= Joseph M. Stookey Department of Herd Medicine and Theriogenology Western College of Veterinary Medicine University of Saskatchewan Saskatoon, Saskatchewan S7N 5B4 Canada stookey@sask.usask.ca From: IN%"gadagkar@is2.dal.ca" "Sudhindra Gadagkar" 20-NOV-1996 18:50:35.02 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: juvenile aggression Dear netters, Read with interest Dr. Sherwin's message re aggression (or what appears to be so) among young turkeys. Yes, I agree that while pecking at eyes MIGHT be explained away as looking for water, grabbing another bird and pulling it by its wing hardly constitutes normal feeding behaviour. The little critters can be vicious, can't they? Believe me, sometimes it was hard watching the way one fish would attack and rip out the other's fins, etc. I was watching them on a big TV monitor, which made it worse. Anyway, as far as a reference for aggression among hyenas (fraternicide, or rather, sister-cide, actually - is there a word for it?!), I happened to be watching the Discovery channel on Sunday night (I think), and there was a program entitled "Hyenas and Lions - Eternal enemies", or something to that effect. A young female hyena (that happens to be one of the two daughters of the matriarch - the hyena's is a matriarchal society, incidentally), that is in line, along with her sister, to being the next matriarch, makes short work of her, and then becomes the sole heiress. (She eventually loses her chance, but that is another story.) Apparently, the mother does not intervene in such a situation. The program was a National Geographic presentation, by the way. I beleive young grebes also can be very aggressive towards siblings. The young, as soon as they hatch, must find their way to the very highest point on the back of the parent. The first one there can be really nasty to the subsequent arrivals. I think it is grebes ( the ones with spectacular synchrinixed dancing behvaiour during courtship). Dr. Sherwin also brought up the inetersting topic of artificial selection and aggression. There has been a fair amount of debate in the fish literature about whether artificial selection for fast growth tends to produce more aggression as well, thus nullifying the gains in fast growth. I am studying aggression and growth among cultured tilapia, and hope to gain some insight from my results. Bye for now. Sudhindra. From: IN%"bregman@interactive.net" "Vivian & Mickey Bregman" 20-NOV-1996 22:05:17.69 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Microchip IDs At 05:37 PM 11/20/96 -0600, you wrote: >Dear All, > >I have recently read a news release about a plan to implant microchip IDs >into the entire licensed dog population on the island of Singapore (37,000 >dogs). I am wondering if anyone is aware of any similar attempts within >your country at the national, regional or local level to individually identify >the pet population using microchip identification implants. > >We have a student within our College who has the opportunity to spend the >summer in Germany. She would like to conduct a summer research program >investigating the use of micorchips in the pet population and the relative >"success" of the program. She is attempting to secure funding, but needs >to know if microchips are being used in any locations within Germany or >neighboring countries. > >If you are aware of any similar initiatives within your country would you >please contact me. In the US the American Kennel Club is behind such a plan. I believe that they are called Home Again Microchips. For more information see the AKC page http://www.akc.org My dog club is planning a clinic to offer it. Vivian ********************************************************************** * Vivian Bregman and the Border Collies in Scenic Wayne, New Jersey * * Member NADOI & APDT Kelev Canine College, Inc * * bregman@interactive.net * ********************************************************************** From: IN%"n.ambrose@bham.ac.uk" 21-NOV-1996 03:10:19.19 To: IN%"STOOKEY@sask.usask.ca" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Microchip IDs > Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:37:26 -0600 (CST) > From: STOOKEY@sask.usask.ca > Subject: Microchip IDs > To: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca > Dear All, > > I have recently read a news release about a plan to implant microchip IDs > into the entire licensed dog population on the island of Singapore (37,000 > dogs). I am wondering if anyone is aware of any similar attempts within > your country at the national, regional or local level to individually identify > the pet population using microchip identification implants. > > We have a student within our College who has the opportunity to spend the > summer in Germany. She would like to conduct a summer research program > investigating the use of micorchips in the pet population and the relative > "success" of the program. She is attempting to secure funding, but needs > to know if microchips are being used in any locations within Germany or > neighboring countries. > > If you are aware of any similar initiatives within your country would you > please contact me. > > Sincerely, > > Joe > ================================= > Joseph M. Stookey > Department of Herd Medicine and Theriogenology > Western College of Veterinary Medicine > University of Saskatchewan > Saskatoon, Saskatchewan > S7N 5B4 > Canada > > stookey@sask.usask.ca > There is a chap called R.Geers who does research on Microchip ID for farm animals in Belgium (Catholic University of Leuven), he may have some contacts in Germany? Just as a matter of interest he has just relaesed a book entitled - Electronic Identification Monitoring and Tracking of Animals (ISBN 0 85199 123 8), available from CAB International (tel +44 (0) 1491 832111 fax +44 (0) 1491 826090). Hope that helps! Neil Ambrose Neil Ambrose Department of Biomedical Science and Ethics The University of Birmingham Edgabaston Birmingham B15 2TT 0121 414 5390 (W) 0121 427 9839 (H) 0589 236 345 (M) Email - N.Ambrose@bham.ac.uk - Main mail or - nxa585@isdugp.bham.ac.uk - Unix account Please note sending unsolicited commercial email to any of the above addresses will incure a stlg10 administration fee. From: IN%"Frank.Odberg@rug.ac.be" "Frank Odberg" 21-NOV-1996 03:46:36.53 To: IN%"billcamp@cdsnet.net" "Bill Campbell" CC: IN%"David_Ruslander@vapower.com" "David Ruslander", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: YOUR EAT-DOWN HORSE I have seen similar behaviour happening but very rarely. A horse going normally down for rolling, going trough the usual sequence of rubbing its back and neck, and while lying sternally again, taking some rest "as if tired from the effort" (=subjective), nibbling at grass. It never lasted long; as far as I remember, the horse always stood up after 15-20 sec. I cannot also remember that behaviour being associated with some illness. Maybe we are looking for "Hineininterpretierung". Did you never crunched peanuts while rubbing your back? Of course we do not roll in our own dish... Frank Prof.Dr. Frank O. Odberg University of Ghent Dpt. of Animal Nutrition, Genetics, Production and Ethology Heidestraat 19 B-9820 Merelbeke Belgium tel: +32-(0)9-2521941 fax: 5304 From: IN%"Frank.Odberg@rug.ac.be" "Frank Odberg" 21-NOV-1996 03:48:16.00 To: IN%"billcamp@cdsnet.net" "Bill Campbell" CC: IN%"David_Ruslander@vapower.com" "David Ruslander", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: YOUR EAT-DOWN HORSE I have seen similar behaviour happening but very rarely. A horse going normally down for rolling, going trough the usual sequence of rubbing its back and neck, and while lying sternally again, taking some rest "as if tired from the effort" (=subjective), nibbling at grass. It never lasted long; as far as I remember, the horse always stood up after 15-20 sec. I cannot also remember that behaviour being associated with some illness. Maybe we are looking for "Hineininterpretierung". Did you never crunched peanuts while rubbing your back? Of course we do not roll in our own dish... Frank Prof.Dr. Frank O. Odberg University of Ghent Dpt. of Animal Nutrition, Genetics, Production and Ethology Heidestraat 19 B-9820 Merelbeke Belgium tel: +32-(0)9-2521941 fax: 5304 From: IN%"bjarne.braastad@nlh10.nlh.no" "Bjarne O. Braastad" 21-NOV-1996 03:48:22.87 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: juvenile aggression - the 'right word' At 15:04 20.11.1996 -0400, Sudhindra Gadagkar wrote: >....... >Anyway, as far as a reference for aggression among hyenas (fraternicide, >or rather, sister-cide, actually - is there a word for it?!) ....... Infanticide by siblings is called siblicide. A proper definition of infanticide is given by Douglas W. Mock (1984): Infanticide is a behaviour that makes a direct and significant contribution to the immediate death of an embryo or a newly born (or hatched) member of the performer's own species. (In: G. Hausfater and S.B. Hrdy (Eds.), Infanticide: Comparative and Evolutionary Perspectives. Ch. 1. Infanticide, siblicide, and avian nestling mortality, pp. 3-30. Aldine, New York). Chris Sherwin might find this article interesting. Mock defines siblicide as infanticide by full- or half-sibs. By the way, infanticide by the parents of the victims is called cronism (or kronism, Kronismus in German, e.g. by H.H.Sambraus: Kronismus bei Schweinen (Cronism in pigs). Dtsch.Tierarztl.Wschr., 83:17-19, 1976), but this word does not seem to have been used very much during the last years. Mock recommends using parental infanticide. I have used maternal infanticide in my studies on silver fox mothers (Appl.Anim.Behav.Sci., 36:347-361, 1993). I suggest that we always indicate the performer when using infanticidal terms to avoid confusion: siblicide, maternal infanticide, paternal infanticide, and nonkin infanticide when it is performed by an unrelated individual (with a very small coefficient of relationship). Bjarne Bjarne O. Braastad Associate Professor of Ethology Dept. of Animal Science, Agricultural University of Norway, P.O. Box 5025, N-1432 Aas, Norway e-mail: bjarne.braastad@ihf.nlh.no fax: +47 64 94 79 60 phone: +47 64 94 79 80 From: IN%"MAPPLEBY@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk" "Mike Appleby" 21-NOV-1996 04:27:51.24 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Clive Hollands We have just heard the sad news that Clive Hollands died on 16th November at the age of 67 after a ruptured aorta from which he never regained consciousness. As many of you will know, he was former director of the Scottish Anti-Vivisection Society (now Advocates for Animals) and a long-term campaigner for animal welfare whose realistic attitude and persuasive public speaking doubtless achieved a considerable amount over several decades. The funeral will be private and the family have requested no flowers or letters. There will be a memorial service in the New Year. Mike Appleby From: IN%"M.B.M.BRACKE@imag.dlo.nl" "Marc Bracke, IMAG-DLO tel. 0317-476554" 21-NOV-1996 05:05:52.83 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Clive Hollands I'm sorry to hear that he died. He once saved my Master's project on killing animals. Executives of the Avocates for Animals were vetoing my project proposal for the Master's course in applied animal behaviour and welfare. Mr. Clive Hollands overheard the, by that time, heated discussion. He supported my ideas and was able to convince them. I've never been able to thank him for that. Marc Bracke From: IN%"peter.penning@bbsrc.ac.uk" "Peter Penning" 21-NOV-1996 05:51:02.83 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Microchip IDs In the UK using mircochips is being actively encouraged by many dog rescue societies in the UK and the National Canine Defence League. Many veterinary practioners will insert chips and also have chip readers. ' The International Standards Organisation (ISO) has recently approved a measure to standardise systems used in the electronic identification of animals. The new Standard consists of two parts ISO 11784, defines the construction of the unique codes used in the transponder to identify animals and ISO 11785 outlines how the exchange of energy and information between the trnsponder and reader must take place'. Texas Instruments (TRIS) News Issue No. 16. 1996 Peter Penning IGER, North Wyke From: IN%"Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "CM. Sherwin" 21-NOV-1996 06:42:52.87 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: microtransponder ID Dear All, 3-D Regarding the question of whether electronic ID is/can be used as nationwide identification of companion animals. I recollect that the Australian RSPCA were at one time lobbying to have legislation introduced requiring all dogs to have an electronic ID transponder implanted. I am not sure of the outcome of this activity. Perhaps one of our Antipodean friends could comment. There were also moves to have all farm animals identified in such a manner, but one of the major draw-backs is the transponders sometimes migrate sub-cutaneously, making it possible for one to end up in our sausages! Regards Chris Sherwin University of Bristol From: IN%"CROWELL-DAVIS.S@calc.vet.uga.edu" "Sharon Crowell-Davis" 21-NOV-1996 07:48:21.03 To: IN%"billcamp@cdsnet.net" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"David_Ruslander@vapower.com" Subj: RE: YOUR EAT-DOWN HORSE In the course of several thousand hours spent doing field research on horse behavior, I have observed the behavior of grazing while lying down, during the daytime, a number of times. At this point, I would classify it as an uncommon, but normal behavior. Since adult horses do most of their lying down at night when people are away, most people are unfamiliar with the behavior of the adult, recumbent horse. While they do appear to primarily sleep while lying down, a stalled horse may nibble at hay on the stall floor between periods of sleep. I recall one pasture-dwelling mare in particular who, when the weather was nice, lay down repeatedly over several days in thick patches of grass, grazed for awhile, then got up and moved on. Rubbing the neck or head on the ground while lying down is pretty common. It's a convenient "scratching post". Horses also scratch their perineum on the ground while in a sitting position. While I do not recall ever observing a horse graze while in the sitting position, I have observed them to just sit for awhile, with a relaxed facial musculature, which would suggest to me that they were just "relaxing". Again, this is uncommon, but I would not be surprised if a horse took a few bites while in this position. Remember Altmann's Law "Whatever animals can do, they will do." Sharon Crowell-Davis > Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:12:39 -0800 (PST) > From: billcamp@cdsnet.net (Bill Campbell) > Subject: Re: YOUR EAT-DOWN HORSE > To: David_Ruslander@vapower.com (David Ruslander) > Cc: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca > Here's a real poser? Any ISAE thoughts? > > Dear Dave, > > Sorry about the delay, but I had to wait for Bob Miller, DVM to get back > from Argentina to talk to him about your problem. He's never ever heard of > the behavior you describe. In saddle, with green rider, yes to rolling, but > no to being on halter and actually eating while down or sitting. > > >______________________________ Reply Separator > _________________________________ > >Subject: Re: my horse > >Author: billcamp@cdsnet.net (Bill Campbell) at Internet > >Date: 10/29/96 10:17 AM > >> > >>Hello Bill, I have a six year old gelding Thoroughbred. Yesterday, for the > >>first time, while he was grazing with me holding his lead he laid down in a > >>patch of clover as if to roll but instead laid on his chest and stomach and > >>began to graze. At first I thought it was really cute but when he did it > >>the third time it scared me. I checked his tongue and comes to see if they > >>were pale but they were fine, his eyes were fine, and when I put him back > >>in the pasture he seemed fine. Any idea what might cause this behavior? > >> > >> Thanks > >> Dave>> > >Hi Dave, > > > >I haven't a clue what possessed your gelding. How long did he remain in that > >position and continue eating? If you can forward that info to me, I'll put > >it on the ISAE forum and see what we get back. > > > >Kindest regards, > > > >Bill > > > > Bill > > > Thanks Bill, he stayed on the ground for 2 or 3 minutes each time. On > > the third time when he went down he laid his head down and kind of > > rubbed his neck on the grass then laid still for 30 seconds or so > > before sitting up to graze. I was thinking that he may have swallowed > > a few fallen leaves and go a little colicie but it cleared; though > > eating while down is a mystery. Thanks for your response. > > Dave > > > > > > ********************************************** Sharon L. Crowell-Davis DVM, PhD Diplomate, American College of Veterinary Behaviorists College of Veterinary Medicine University of Georgia Athens, Georgia 30602 706-542-8343 FAX 706-542-0051 Email crowell-davis.s@calc.vet.uga.edu If a little knowledge is dangerous, where is the man who has so much as to be out of danger? T.H. Huxley On Elementary Instruction in Physiology From: IN%"D.Goodwin@soton.ac.uk" "debbie goodwin" 21-NOV-1996 08:26:40.00 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: YOUR EAT-DOWN HORSE I have, but only occasionally, seen New Forest ponies on the New Forest graze while lying down, and also some riding school horses of various British native breeds, poth at pasture and stabled on straw beds. The ones I've watched seem to graze briefly while lying on their sternum with their legs tucked up. This seems to follow a period where they have been lying flat for some time, and after grazing on their sternums most have risen and carried on grazing, but one lay flat again. I've never seen them get up and lie down then graze straight away again. It's possible, I suppose, that the TB may have wanted to roll on the clover, but felt restricted as he had a lead rope attached, hence the head rubbing. Having laid down, snatched a few tasty mouthfuls and then got up, the continued urge to roll may have promted the repeated bouts. Interestingly I seen some New Forest pony foals graze lying down with their forelegs stretched out and their nose between their knees. I've never seen an adult horse do this though...presumably not bendy enough! I wouldn't worry too much unless anything else seems amiss. Debbie D.Goodwin PhD Anthrozoology Institute University of Southampton http://www.soton.ac.uk/~azi/azi.htm From: IN%"serpell@pobox.upenn.edu" 21-NOV-1996 08:52:46.69 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: microchip ID Dear All, The UK Dangerous Dogs Act requires that all (so-called) dangerous dog breeds be registered and permanently identified with either a skin tattoo or microchip transponder. The system is operated, alongside a microchip identification scheme available to ordinary pet owners, by Wood Green Animal Shelter under contract from HMG. The contact person at Wood Green is: Mr. Graham Fuller, Wood Green Animal Shelter, Chishill Rd., Heydon, Royston, Herts., SG8 8PN UK tel: (0)1763-838329 As Peter Penning mentioned, a number of other humane societies in the UK operate similar voluntary schemes for pet owners, including the RSPCA. The present drawback is that the different groups are using different competing systems that cannot read each other's chips. Incidently, the Taiwan government is also looking at a national dog registration scheme based on microchip identification. James Serpell ___________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________ School of Veterinary Medicine, Dept. of Clinical Studies, University of Pennsylvania, 3850 Spruce Street, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6010. USA From: IN%"di-bushong@tamu.edu" "Diana Bushong" 21-NOV-1996 09:04:18.55 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Virus Alert!!! Has anyone heard of this virus?? > **********VIRUS ALERT********** VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION, PLEASE >READ! > >There is a computer virus that is being sent across the Internet. If you >receive an email message with the subject line "Deeyenda", DO NOT read the >message, DELETE it immediately! > >Some miscreant is sending email under the title "Deeyenda" nationwide, if you > >get anything like this DON'T DOWNLOAD THE FILE! It has a virus that >rewrites >your hard drive, obliterates anything on it. Please be careful and forward >this e-mail to anyone you care about. > >Please read the message below. > >Alex > >----------- > > FCC WARNING!!!!! -----DEEYENDA PLAGUES INTERNET > >The Internet community has again been plagued by another computer virus. >This message is being spread throughout the Internet, including USENET >posting, EMAIL, and other Internet activities. The reason for all the >attention is because of the nature of this virus and the potential security >risk it makes. Instead of a destructive Trojan virus (like most viruses!), >this virus referred to as Deeyenda Maddick, performs a comprehensive search >on >your computer, looking for valuable information, such as email and login >passwords, credit cards, personal inf., etc. > >The Deeyenda virus also has the capability to stay memory resident while >running a host of applications and operation systems, such as Windows 3.11 >and >Windows 95. What this means to Internet users is that when a login and >password are send to the server, this virus can copy this information and >SEND >IT OUT TO UN UNKNOWN ADDRESS (varies). > >The reason for this warning is because the Deeyenda virus is virtually >undetectable. Once attacked your computer will be unsecure. Although it can > >attack any O/S this virus is most likely to attack those users viewing Java >enhanced Web Pages (Netscape 2.0+ and Microsoft Internet Explorer 3.0+ which >are running under Windows 95). Researchers at Princeton University have >found >this virus on a number of World Wide Web pagesand fear its spread. > >Please pass this on, for we must alert the general public at the security >risks. > > > Diana Bushong Texas A&M University Department of Animal Science 243 Kleberg Center MS2471 College Station, TX 77843-2471 email: di-bushong@tamu.edu phone: 409-845-9075 fax: 409-845-5292 From: IN%"auclair@erols.com" "Auclair family" 21-NOV-1996 10:29:47.43 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Question for applied etholgy members I am a high school student considering a topic for a science fair project. Last year my little sister did a project on whether dogs and cats are right or left "pawed". I thought it was pretty corny until I saw her surprising results, which showed that there is a preferred paw fo use in functions where only one paw is used (stepping forward, reaching out for an object just out of reach etc). I am considering upgrading this project. Would anyone out there hazard a guess concerning this behavior (if it really exists-to be redetermined)? Is it functional, adaptive, or simply extraneous? Any comments? Please e-mail Austin at auclair@erols.com Thanks. From: IN%"102234.510@CompuServe.COM" "Sabine Van den Weghe" 21-NOV-1996 10:47:55.26 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" "INTERNET:applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE:Microchip IDs Dear Joe, there is a number of people working on that issue in farm animals in particular since several years. The working group is organized through KTBL - where I work - and the members are from Universities, research institutes and also industry from Germany and the Netherlands. The group was involved in carrying out the ISO standards 11784 and 11785 in which the coding system and the technical standardization are defined. Furthermore there were and are research programs going on regarding the implementation of electronic implants. There is still a huge program running for the implementation of microchips in cattle. I will send addresses of those people who are involved in the next days because I need to get them here. I hope this might help you. Sincerely yours Sabine From: IN%"Petra.Mertens@lrz.uni-muenchen.de" 21-NOV-1996 11:20:53.72 To: IN%"STOOKEY@sask.usask.ca", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Microchip IDs Microchips are used in companion animals in Germany to identify dogs. They are mainly implanted by the SPCA-shelters once a dog is brought there. I doubt that breeders are using them frequnetly. Unfortunately, different systems are used and very few Vets are equipped with the "readers" for routine checking. The main way to ID dogs and cats is therefore tatooing (ears and abdomen). Please let me know if additional infomation is needed. Best wishes, Petra ______________________ Dr. Petra A. Mertens Institute for Ethology and Animal Welfare Veterinary School Ludwig-Maximilians-University Schwere-Reiter-Str. 9 80797 Muenchen petra.mertens@lrz.uni-muenchen.de From: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" 21-NOV-1996 11:59:50.20 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: Virus alert Re: "meme"enda virus We've seen quite a few warnings like this recently. Usually followed by reassurances that computer viruses cannot be propagated by email. I think that these messages are analogous to what Richard Dawkins called "memes". The true replicator is not the virus itself, but instead alarming messages describing its terrible capabilities that get copied, forwarded, mutated and generally reproduced around the network. However, I'm not a computer guy. Has anyone out there ever had a hard drive damaged by an email message? Is it possible? How is it that I never get warnings like this from computer-smart sources like our computing services people? My email account is on a mainframe computer that serves thousands of users. Surely they would be concerned if someone could destroy the mighty "Duke" by inadvertantly reading a message with a certain subject line! My guess is that they are too computer-smart to be taken in by such crap. But who knows? A reply from someone with GENUINE knowledge on this subject (at a level I can understand) would be appreciated. Jon ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Watts (___) ) ) University of Saskatchewan |o o|___________/ ( Dept of Herd Medicine O \#/ | ) and Theriogenology |bser| | Statistical | ( Western College of Vet. Med. |vati| | analysis | ) 52 Campus Drive |ons.| \___________/| *& Saskatoon ------ || || %$#@ S7N 1B4 / \ || || ^*@*~ Canada &^%%#$@ wattsjon@duke.usask.ca "The Holy Cow" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IN%"di-bushong@tamu.edu" "Diana Bushong" 21-NOV-1996 14:48:21.61 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Earlier "Virus alert" I beg many forgivenesses for propagating yet another hoax to be spread around the internet. I did receive this alert about the "Deeyenda" virus from someone I considered more computer knowledgeable than myself--he's a computer nerd who works at IBM and I will flog him with a wet noodle the next time I see him. However, after some searching I did find that at "http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/index.html" there is a wealth of info about viruses. One item I found was a list of virus hoaxes; they are: Good Times, 3b Trojan (PKZip virus), Irina and Deeyenda. McAfee also has a web site with a virus database but I can't seem to find my way back into it; the place to start though was "http://www.mcafee.com", then surf from there. Again sorry to have plagued the group with yet another irritating hoax. Diana Bushong Texas A&M University Department of Animal Science 243 Kleberg Center MS2471 College Station, TX 77843-2471 email: di-bushong@tamu.edu phone: 409-845-9075 fax: 409-845-5292 From: IN%"mkhd@earthlink.net" 21-NOV-1996 15:07:33.72 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: car chasing dogs Dear dog-fanciers A somewhat late contribution to the 'car chasing dogs' discussion: As an applied ethologist working on behaviour problems in dogs, I only can confirm Bill Cambells findings: >I have found most car chasing to be driven by territorial protection vs a predatory behavior< Actually, I was quite surprised to read that everybody else mentioned hunting dogs to be likely to express this problem behaviour. Until now, I never had to deal with car chasing hounds or Borzois, although they would chase cats or game or small dogs. (Then, Allison mixes things up when she writes the behaviour tended to be reinforced >...as the dog always wins, in that the car leaves. < Chasing the car off certainly cannot be the aim of any predatory behaviour, but is rewarding because the dog is motivated in territorial defense.) To my experience, dog breeds most liable to engage in car chasing are herding dogs e.g. (Border) Collies, Italian Shepherds from Bergamo, Appenzell and Entlebuch Cattle Dogs, Australian Shepherds. To get good working dogs, breeding has been concentrating on the predatory skills of chasing herds of prey (=testing the individuals for signs of weakness) and then seperating the chosen animal from the group, yet trying to cut off the actual killing of the prey from the behavioural sequence. Also, herding dogs in general are high at activity (a shepherd dog's day is tough work!) and territorial protection. I agree with Bill Cambell, too, in that this problem behaviour can be stopped through correct human leadership, however it might be motivated in each particular case (chasing off, play chasing, prey chasing). Yet, some dog owners just never lern watching their pet and giving clear signals whenever the dog/the situation would demand. Sonja Doll-Sonderegger From: IN%"joseph.stookey@sask.usask.ca" 21-NOV-1996 15:49:23.51 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Microchip ID > As Peter Penning mentioned, a number of other humane societies in the UK > operate similar voluntary schemes for pet owners, including the RSPCA. The > present drawback is that the different groups are using different competing > systems that cannot read each other's chips. > Incidently, the Taiwan government is also looking at a national dog > registration scheme based on microchip identification. > James Serpell As I understand the technology, you can get sytems that use encoded or non-encoded chips. The difference between the two systems is that if the system uses non-encoded chips it enables other scanners to read the chip. As James and Peter both mentioned, it is a major concern for animal shelters and vet clinics, they want the implants to be readable by all systems. One local vet clinic has switched companies so that the chips they are now using can be read by other systems. (Not much of a consolation for the early adopters of the concept, since they implanted their pets with "scanner specific" implants) I know that Alberta Agriculture had a major research initiative to investigate the use of electronic identification in cattle. They backed off of the implant devices and believe the future EI for cattle to be electronic ear tags not electronic implants. There are even electronic ear tags that can store data (ie birth date, treatment record, sale history, etc.). The EI ear tags for cattle may be useful to the individual producer or feedlot owner even if other producers do not adopt the technology. Within the pet population the most effective use would be to have an entire city or the bulk of the pet population comply with an electronic identification program. Our local SPCA has a scanner, but they fear their system may not be able to read all the implants. A worker at the our local SPCA was aware of only 1 case in which a dog had arrived at the shelter with an implant device that was read by their scanner. There must be places where there is a higher compliance than Saskatoon. Is there any evidence that stray pets are being re-united through the aid of EI in tracking down the owner? I appreciate all the messages that were sent directly to me on this subject, the information will be very useful to the student working on this project. For those of you who have sent me a message, I will soon send you a brief thank you and verification I received your message. Joe ============================= Joseph M. Stookey Department of Herd Medicine and Theriogenology Western College of Veterinary Medicine University of Saskatchewan' Saskatoon, Saskatchewan S7N 5B4 Canada stookey@sask.usask.ca From: IN%"mir00586@wari.rcp.net.pe" "RICARDO CACEDA SANCHEZ" 21-NOV-1996 17:23:50.33 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: reactions to illness Hello I am interested in the behavior rections of social animals to the member of the group when this is sick. I mean they make an attempt to hep him or just kill him. I am particularly interested in bees and primates. Ricardo Caceda MS From: IN%"serpell@pobox.upenn.edu" 21-NOV-1996 17:34:25.72 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: car chasing Given the prevalence of this behavior in herding breeds, rather than guarding breeds, why shouldn't we conclude that the dogs are in fact 'herding' the cars, or attempting to, rather than necessarily driving them out of their territories. I know from personal experience that border collies will 'invent' all kinds of bizarre chasing/herding type behaviors to do, if they are not worked. For example, I have seen cases of dogs herding any member of the household who runs for any reason, and I have seen a case of a border collie who compulsively herded a second border collie who compulsively chased and retrieved sticks. The results of these high-speed chases were sometimes catastrophic. I use the word 'compulsive' advisedly here. The animals perform the behavior with a special kind of single-minded, inexhaustible determination and energy that is hard to describe without implying some very strong inner compulsion. The fact that the behavior disappears when the dog is away from home need not imply that the behavior is primarily territorial. It may be that the animal acquired the habit in its familiar home environment and it takes a while it to generalize to other unfamiliar stimulus situations. These distinctions may be relevant from a treatment standpoint. If the behavior is primarily territorial then the 'reward' or reinforcement is seeing the car flee. A logical treatment might involve unresponsive cars, cars that approached rather than fled, or approaching cars that the dog learns to associate with some reward such as a food treat. In this way the dog might learn to welcome the intruder, or at least ignore it. If the behavior is linked to a breed-specific herding motivation, however, it is likely that the performance of the behavior provides it's own reward irrespective of the behavior of the car (as long as it moves). In which case, it might be necessary to counter the rewarding chase sequence with some sort of aversive interruption. Even then, if successful, my guess would be that most of these dogs would soon invent some other irritating alternative. Without wishing to prolong the discussion ad nauseam, I would be interested in further opinions. Thanks. James Serpell ___________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________ School of Veterinary Medicine, Dept. of Clinical Studies, University of Pennsylvania, 3850 Spruce Street, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6010. USA From: IN%"petaipan@HK.Super.NET" 21-NOV-1996 21:09:13.57 To: IN%"STOOKEY@sask.usask.ca" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Microchip IDs Joe Stookey wrote: >If you are aware of any similar initiatives within your country would you >please contact me. Here is a little information on the situation in Hong Kong: Microchips for Dogs As of 2 December, 1996 Hong Kong will require all dogs to be identified by an implanted microchip. The microchips will be implanted when the dogs are vaccinated against rabies and licensed. A licence fee will be charged to recover the costs. The chips will be implanted by both Government staff and private veterinary surgeons. The Department of Agriculture and Fisheries will administer the data base containing the dog keepers records. The system will be gradually implemented over the next three years, which is the period for which a dog licence is valid. Hong Kong is believed to be the first territory or country to impose compulsory identification of animals by microchip. The difficulties resulting from the many incompatible systems currently available has been overcome by legislating so that only one system can be used. The current system will be based on AVID encrypted chips. When the ISO standard chip is finally defined and commercially available, then the system will be based on that chip. The justification for the introduction of the system has been the need to definitively identify animals vaccinated against rabies, to identify animals moving between countries and to reduce the stray dog problem by being able to identify those persons responsible for stray animals. Other animal identification systems such as tattooing or external tagging fail as they are open to fraudulent use, falsification or difficulties in reading the identity. Hope this is of interest Regards Pete Grandison Pete Grandison 1. Veterinary Officer Hong Kong Agriculture and Fisheries Department Canton Road Government Offices Kowloon, Hong Kong 2. Post graduate student Murdoch University (W. Australia) "Cultural Influences on Attitudes to Animal Wefare in Hong Kong Society" Phone: (852) 27332164 Fax: (852) 23142866 email petaipan@hk.super.net From: IN%"bregman@interactive.net" "Vivian & Mickey Bregman" 21-NOV-1996 22:41:58.40 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: car chasing At 06:28 PM 11/21/96 +0000, you wrote: <<>> If the >behavior is linked to a breed-specific herding motivation, however, it is >likely that the performance of the behavior provides it's own reward >irrespective of the behavior of the car (as long as it moves). In which >case, it might be necessary to counter the rewarding chase sequence with >some sort of aversive interruption. Even then, if successful, my guess >would be that most of these dogs would soon invent some other irritating >alternative. However, the alternative might not be as likely to cause the dog injury. I am a great believer in leashes, long lines, and fences. I lost one of my dogs to a car over thirty years ago, and I swore that I would train my dogs and that it would never happen again. It hasn't. BTW, my three Border Collies will herd each other, big hard balls, (soccer sized), sticks, and anything else. I wish I could get sheep, but my area of New Jersey just isn't right for them. Vivian ********************************************************************** * Vivian Bregman and the Border Collies in Scenic Wayne, New Jersey * * Member NADOI & APDT Kelev Canine College, Inc * * bregman@interactive.net * ********************************************************************** From: IN%"Frank.Odberg@rug.ac.be" "Frank Odberg" 22-NOV-1996 02:59:00.48 To: IN%"auclair@erols.com" "Auclair family" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Question for applied etholgy members I have a vague rememberance of case studies by Grzimek on horses and parrots, published in the Zeitschrift fur Tierpsychologie in the 30-ties, 40-ties...but there should be more recent studies by some youngsters in the field of neuro-ethology. Granddad Prof.Dr. Frank O. Odberg University of Ghent Dpt. of Animal Nutrition, Genetics, Production and Ethology Heidestraat 19 B-9820 Merelbeke Belgium tel: +32-(0)9-2521941 fax: 5304 On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Auclair family wrote: > I am a high school student considering a topic for a science fair > project. Last year my little sister did a project on whether dogs and > cats are right or left "pawed". I thought it was pretty corny until I > saw her surprising results, which showed that there is a preferred paw fo > use in functions where only one paw is used (stepping forward, reaching > out for an object just out of reach etc). I am considering upgrading this > project. Would anyone out there hazard a guess concerning this behavior > (if it really exists-to be redetermined)? Is it functional, adaptive, or > simply extraneous? Any comments? Please e-mail Austin at > auclair@erols.com Thanks. > From: IN%"Frank.Odberg@rug.ac.be" "Frank Odberg" 22-NOV-1996 03:00:58.58 To: IN%"auclair@erols.com" "Auclair family" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Question for applied etholgy members I have a vague rememberance of case studies by Grzimek on horses and parrots, published in the Zeitschrift fur Tierpsychologie in the 30-ties, 40-ties...but there should be more recent studies by some youngsters in the field of neuro-ethology. Granddad Prof.Dr. Frank O. Odberg University of Ghent Dpt. of Animal Nutrition, Genetics, Production and Ethology Heidestraat 19 B-9820 Merelbeke Belgium tel: +32-(0)9-2521941 fax: 5304 On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Auclair family wrote: > I am a high school student considering a topic for a science fair > project. Last year my little sister did a project on whether dogs and > cats are right or left "pawed". I thought it was pretty corny until I > saw her surprising results, which showed that there is a preferred paw fo > use in functions where only one paw is used (stepping forward, reaching > out for an object just out of reach etc). I am considering upgrading this > project. Would anyone out there hazard a guess concerning this behavior > (if it really exists-to be redetermined)? Is it functional, adaptive, or > simply extraneous? Any comments? Please e-mail Austin at > auclair@erols.com Thanks. > From: IN%"D.Goodwin@soton.ac.uk" "debbie goodwin" 22-NOV-1996 04:14:29.55 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: YOUR EAT-DOWN HORSE (fwd) Forwarded Message: From: Mike Appleby Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:42:36 +0000 Subject: Re: YOUR EAT-DOWN HORSE What about grazing while lying in other species? When I used to watch red deer in the wild, it was quite common to see an animal which had been lying for a while take a few bites at the vegetation within reach, before getting up and continuing to graze standing. In fact it was quite a good warning for me, because when my focal animal had been lying for an hour or so I was quite likely to be dozing off myself (in summer anyway - in winter I was more likely to be frozen solid) and I soon learned that if it nibbled at the grass I had to be ready to follow it when it moved off. However, I never saw a deer lie to eat then stand again afterwards, and obviously the behaviour I saw - eating a few readily available mouthfuls preparatory to starting grazing properly - is hardly surprising. Mike Appleby mappleby@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk From: IN%"MAPPLEBY@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk" "Mike Appleby" 22-NOV-1996 04:48:52.60 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: A slightly less boring message about viruses In response to Jon Watts, there WAS damage done by a virus sent via email, at the Roslin Institute near Edinburgh. But before you worry TOO much, it IS impossible to be damaged by a virus simply by opening an email message, so all the messages warning of this ('If you get a message with the subject Good News, do not on any account download it') ARE hoaxes. I asked Barry Hughes at the Roslin Institute for details and his reply follows. Mike Appleby ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:31:57 +0000 From: Barry Hughes To: Mike Appleby Subject: RE: Virus alert Mike I've shown your message to Matt. The answer is No and Yes ! No, a virus cannot be transmitted simply by READING an e.mail message. Yes, under certain circumstances a virus CAN be transmitted by a document sent by e.mail and read into your operating system. Our computer people didn't express any enthusiasm at all for writing an explanation for the Internet but the gist of what thy told me appears below. The virus we had here a couple of weeks ago was 'Word.Macro.Virus' - it was embedded in a Word document sent by e.mail and read into a computer. It then spread locally each time a Word document created in that computer was read by Word in another compouter. It was a very smart virus and this is the first time it seems to have happened here, so it's very rare. Every computer was checked (about 6 were affected) and disinfected and all our desktops have had additional virus-screening software added which will prevent a recurrence (at least with that type of virus). I hope this clarifies the situation. Barry From: IN%"kh220@cam.ac.uk" 22-NOV-1996 06:38:25.28 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Introduction Hi everyone, I have just joined the network and would like to introduce myself. My name is Kristin Hagen, and I am a student at the University of Troms=F8, Norway. My main interests are applied farm animal behaviour and philosophy of biology. This term I have been visiting the Animal Welfare and Human-Animal Interactions Group, University of Cambridge, for some months, in order to learn about their approach to Animal Welfare. I look forward to join your discussions and get your help on some questions. Kristin Hagen Department of Clinical Veterinary Medicine Madingley Road Cambridge CB3 0ES, UK=20 From: IN%"MARYB@lab0.vet.ed.ac.uk" "Mary Booth" 22-NOV-1996 06:48:55.11 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: YOUR EAT-DOWN HORSE Dear all, This is an interesting subject. Like Debbie Goodwin I wouldn't think it is a cause for concern about the health of the horse but I would like to explore some other possible contributing behavioural factors Firstly I would like to add laterally recumbent Exmoor foal to the list of equines seen eating grass whilst lying down, perhaps yet another example of Altman's Law! Two factors which may also have a bearing on the original question about the TB lying in clover are the state of the field the horse normally occupied and whether the horse was kept alone or in company. Firm dusty areas are usually (but not exclusively) selected for rolling but maybe a thin skinned TB did not find close grazed dry ground comfortable for lying down to rest so relished the opportunity when presented with soft clover (although the head rubbing suggests a link with rolling too) If the horse was pastured alone maybe he didn't feel secure enough to rest lying down but in the company of someone whom he trusts was quite happy to do so and eat the delicious clover at the same time! Maybe the original questioner could tell us why the horse was being led out in hand and the amount of grass cover in its own field? Best wishes, Mary Booth Vet. field Station, Easter Bush, Roslin, Midlothian, U.K. From: IN%"SED168@ed.sac.ac.uk" "Van Moeffaert Nathalie" 22-NOV-1996 10:36:13.67 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: scientific dogs Hello! Is there anyone who knows of dogs being used in scientific research? I will soon start a PhD on dispersion of young roe deer, and I was thinking of using a dog for tracking fawns. Nathalie ####################################################### "Man has a great power of speech, which is to a large measure vain and false. The animals have little, but that little is useful and true, and a small and sure thing is better than a great lie." dixit Leonardo da Vinci Nathalie Van Moeffaert MSc Applied Animal Behaviour and Animal Welfare School of Agriculture University of Edinburgh West Mains Road Edinburgh ###################################################### From: IN%"gabouryc@EM.AGR.CA" "Chantal Gaboury" 22-NOV-1996 10:58:52.64 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: play To all, I am very much enjoying the play discussion (thanx all). I was wondering, if play is used to practice adult behaviours, why don't we see it in "lower animals" such as insects, inverts, reptiles etc. I remember reading something about "excess energy" in a book by Fagen. The theory was that young animals have excess energy and play behaviour is a way for them to expend some of this energy...does anyone have any comments? Chantal Gaboury gabouryc@em.agr.ca From: IN%"sed1522@ed.sac.ac.uk" 22-NOV-1996 11:35:42.84 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: (Fwd) Introducing myself ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: Self To: listserv@segate.sunet.se Subject: Introducing myself Reply-to: sed1522@ed.sac.ac.uk Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 17:30:57 GMT My name is Anna Blomberg and I am a student at the Swedish University of Agriculture in Uppsala. I have spent the last two month at the University of Edinburgh where I have had the splendid opportunity to take modules from an MSc-programme in Animal Behaviour and Animal Welfare. I will stay here until the middle of March, and as the course raises many thougths and questions, I am looking forward to taking part of the discussion and maybe get some answers to all my questions! From: IN%"kmcn@flyball.org.uk" 22-NOV-1996 12:07:20.52 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Left or Right handed On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Auclair family wrote: > I am a high school student considering a topic for a science fair > project. Last year my little sister did a project on whether dogs and > cats are right or left "pawed". I thought it was pretty corny until I > saw her surprising results, which showed that there is a preferred paw fo > use in functions where only one paw is used (stepping forward, reaching > out for an object just out of reach etc). I am considering upgrading this > project. Would anyone out there hazard a guess concerning this behavior > (if it really exists-to be redetermined)? Is it functional, adaptive, or > simply extraneous? Any comments? Please e-mail Austin at > auclair@erols.com Thanks. I have noticed that dogs are not only handed, but also have preference for turning to one side. You do not mention which 'hand' was preferred but in my experience most dogs appear to be right 'handed' and also prefer to turn clockwise rather than anti-clockwise. Regards Kevin Mc Nicholas From: IN%"Wilsson@aol.com" 22-NOV-1996 15:39:39.01 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: scientific dogs Hi Dogs have been used by Swedish scientists in order to find new born moose calves. I recommend that you take contact with Dr Goran Cederlund at the Grimso research station in Sweden. His mai adress is: goran.cederlund@vilt.slu.se If you have any questions conserning the training I myself may give you some help. If so keep in touch. Erik Wilsson From: IN%"joseph.stookey@sask.usask.ca" 22-NOV-1996 16:57:11.54 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Applied-ethology archives on WWW Dear All, You can access the archive files containing the previous messages and discussions from the Applied-ethology network by going to the following address on the World Wide Web: http://www.usask.ca/wcvm/ae/archives.htm The files extend back to Nov. 93 when the Applied-ethology network was first set up. Hopefully, we can figure out a way to add a search engine to the archive files that would allow you to search for files with key words or phrases. I hope you find the archives useful. Joe =================================== Joseph M. Stookey Department of Herd Medicine and Theriogenology Western College of Veterinary Medicine University of Saskatchewan Saskatoon, Saskatchewan S7N 5B4 Canada joseph.stookey@sask.usask.ca From: IN%"mkhd@earthlink.net" 22-NOV-1996 18:29:32.55 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Car herding? James Serpell wrote: >Given the prevalence of this behavior in herding breeds, rather than >guarding breeds, why shouldn't we conclude that the dogs are in fact >'herding' the cars, or attempting to, rather than necessarily driving them >out of their territories. I find this a very interesting thought, yet I would like to mention that the herding breeds still are quite good guardians. I am thinking of the Appenzell Cattle Dog. Dogs of this breed are widely kept on Swiss farms and usually are the terror of weekend wanderers. Roughly, normal herding behaviour of these dogs consists of facing and barking at a cow that wants to break out, circling the herd, and driving the animals by swiftly snapping the cows' ankle and immediatety back away to prevent itself from getting hit. Now lets have a look at the territorial defense behaviour of the "Appenzeller": If, for example, one of the above mentioned wanderers would like to pass the farm, the dog will run up to him and bark/threaten him ferociously. But, as long as the intruder faces it, the dog would not attack and keep a save distance. However, as soon as it gets the opportunity to come from behind (e.g. when the person judged the dog to be noisy but harmless and decided to walk on), it will go for the poor person's calf. And it won't let go that easily! (It is because of this 'assault from behind' that many people call the Appenzeller to be a coward.) So, if we want to find out whether an Appenzeller chasing a car is engaging in herding behaviour rather than in territorial protection, the dog should not growl, and when the car stops moving, the dog should circle it. Also, the dog might be 'herding' the car for a longer distance (within the 'home range'), whereas it should stop 'chasing off' at the border of its territory. Actually, the more I think about car chasing behaviour in Appenzellers, the less certain I get about remembering the details. I will have a close look at it when I'm back home in Switzerland! Sonja Doll-Sonderegger From: IN%"Heeler@aol.com" 22-NOV-1996 19:08:37.50 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: car chasing In a message dated 96-11-21 20:02:00 EST, you write: >. I know from personal experience that border >collies will 'invent' all kinds of bizarre chasing/herding type behaviors >to do, if they are not worked. For example, I have seen cases of dogs >herding any member of the household who runs for any reason, and I have >seen a case of a border collie who compulsively herded a second border >collie who compulsively chased and retrieved sticks. The results of these >high-speed chases were sometimes catastrophic. I use the word 'compulsive' >advisedly here. The animals perform the behavior with a special kind of >single-minded, inexhaustible determination and energy that is hard to >describe without implying some very strong inner compulsion. --------snip----- > Without wishing to prolong the discussion ad nauseam, I would be >interested in further opinions. Thanks. > > Dogs that I've observed chasing cars do NOT chase them from the rear as they might be expected to be if they were trying to drive them away from their territory. They all appeared to be trying to "head" the car as if in attempt to turn the escaping car back toward the home territory or the human they perceive as pack leader. This is typical of breeds selected for heading rather than just chasing. "Chase" is kind of a sloppy verb to use in this context. The dog who wants to drive off an invading car will stay behind the car instead of trying to bring it back. And the dog who only wants to send the car away will give up his chase as soon as the car is headed away. The herding dog will only try harder then. Also, if the dog who exhibits car aggression is motivated by protective/territorial needs, why doesn't he attack the car head on as it approaches his territory? This is the ONE car-chasing behavior I've never seen. Cheers, Margie From: IN%"William_R_STRICKLIN@umail.umd.edu" 22-NOV-1996 19:17:14.97 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Mad Cow Web Page Dear All, Mark Varner has put together a Web Page on BSE and CJD with linkages to resources from US, UK, Switzerland, Japan, etc. It is an excellent source for anyone looking for information on this topic. The address is: http://dairy.umd.edu/varner/bse.html Ray Stricklin Department of Animal Sciences University of Maryland From: IN%"dacserm@biol.unipr.it" 23-NOV-1996 04:56:52.66 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: play At 20:03 22/11/96, applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca wrote: >To all, >I am very much enjoying the play discussion (thanx all). I was >wondering, if play is used to practice adult behaviours, why don't we >see it in "lower animals" such as insects, inverts, reptiles etc. I >remember reading something about "excess energy" in a book by Fagen. >The theory was that young animals have excess energy and play >behaviour is a way for them to expend some of this energy...does >anyone have any comments? >Chantal Gaboury >gabouryc@em.agr.ca > Dear Chantal, You must consider that practice adult behaviours is needed when much (or most) of the individual's behavioural repertoire is "learnt" and is not performed more or less automatically because under strict genetic control. This also explains why play is recorded mostly in species with complex central nervous system, then excluding your "lower animals". Besides, if you consider that typical play has strong social basis for its performance you understand why we observe it again mostly in birds and mammals, ie species with both well developed social structure and complex brain. Davide _________________________________________________________________________ Davide Csermely Assoc.Prof. Vertebrate Zoology Dip. Biologia Evolutiva e Funzionale Intl. Phone: +39-521-905632 Universita` di Parma Intl. Fax : +39-521-905657 Viale delle Scienze Email: DACSERM@biol.unipr.it 43100 Parma, Italy URL : http://www.biol.unipr.it From: IN%"Scott.W.Line-1@tc.umn.edu" "Scott W. Line" 23-NOV-1996 07:04:40.15 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Microchip ID I work in a veterinary college and an animal shelter in Minneapolis, Minnesota, which is in the northern United States. In this country there are 3 different commercial microchip systems being used in pets (rumor has it that a 4th will join the field shortly). The 3 types of chips currently available here are from AVID, Home Again (Schering Plough Co.), and InfoPet. > As I understand the technology, you can get sytems that use encoded or > non-encoded chips. The difference between the two systems is that if the > system uses non-encoded chips it enables other scanners to read the chip. As > James and Peter both mentioned, it is a major concern for animal shelters and > vet clinics, they want the implants to be readable by all systems. One local > vet clinic has switched companies so that the chips they are now using can be > read by other systems. (Not much of a consolation for the early adopters of > the concept, since they implanted their pets with "scanner specific" > implants) Some systems (AVID is one) are encrypted, but they now can be read by scanners from other systems. Until recently this has NOT been the case. Microchip identification technology has been available for years, but ALL the systems here were proprietary and would only read their own chips. This was a problem since in some cities you would need to use 3 scanners to be sure you hadn't missed a pet brought to a shelter or animal control facility as a stray. Due to complaints from a number of sources, including loud and persistent commentary from shelter workers, the companies have finally agreed to produce "universal" scanners. We are now participating in a study led by Dr. Patricia Olson of the American Humane Association to test how well the scanners do their job. Two shelters (ours and one in Detroit, Michigan) are implanting 50 dogs and 50 cats with each of the 3 types of chips. 24 hours after implant each pet is tested with scanners from all 3 companies. People doing the scanning are not aware of which kind of chip is implanted (or even if there is a chip - 100 nonimplanted controls are also included). The study began this month and data collection will be completed early next year. In addition to testing how well the scanners work at 24 hours, we will also be bringing the pets back 1 month after implant to check for continued operation and for possible migration from the implant site. The results will be submitted for publication in the journal Animal Welfare. (As a preliminary comment, the scanners do appear to be able to read and report the specific ID number of all 3 chip types.) > There are even electronic ear tags that can store data (ie birth date, > treatment record, sale history, etc.). Implantable microchips will also be able to store and report other kinds of data. We have seen test models that can record body temperature, and which the operator can use to record information like vaccination dates, et cetera. > A worker at the our local SPCA was aware of only 1 case in which > a dog had arrived at the shelter with an implant device that was read by > their scanner. There must be places where there is a higher compliance than > Saskatoon. Is there any evidence that stray pets are being re-united > through the aid of EI in tracking down the owner? Since we began earlier this year we have implanted 7,000+ chips (increasing at about 1,000/mo). Most of the veterinary clinics in the area also offer microchipping to their clients. So far we have reunited about 40 pets with their owners, both through our own shelter and at other local shelters and animal control agencies. Other cities have found that as the number of pets implanted grows, so does the number of recoveries. In San Diego the rate has been reported at about 10-20/month. With cross-compatible scanners now available, more facilities will be scanning (scanners are provided free to shelters and animal control agencies by the companies) and more lost pets should be returned. It's not perfect, it isn't cost-free, but in general it seems to work fairly well. Scott Line, DVM, PhD linex001@gold.tc.umn.edu Dept. of Small Animal Clinical Sciences (612) 625-1770 College of Veterinary Medicine (612) 624-0751 fax University of Minnesota From: IN%"Heeler@aol.com" 23-NOV-1996 19:31:37.69 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: play In a message dated 96-11-23 07:14:23 EST, you write: >>I am very much enjoying the play discussion (thanx all). I was >>wondering, if play is used to practice adult behaviours, why don't we >>see it in "lower animals" such as insects, inverts, reptiles etc. The animals you cite emerge from their eggs long after their parents have forgotten about them. Whatever survival skills they need are hard wired before they come out of the egg. Animals who are nurtured by adults come hard-wired for whatever it takes to find mommy and get something to eat. Anything more than that, they pretty much pick up from their moms and the rest of the herd. I'll bet money that than animals who "play" are creatures who are born without all the skills they need to get along in this world, and creatures who emerge from the egg with everything they need to know don't "play." Cheers, Margie From: IN%"sed1522@ed.sac.ac.uk" 24-NOV-1996 07:06:06.24 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Anorectic dogs During my course in Applied Animal Behaviour I have to set up an experiment about an small animal problem. I have chosen to approach the problem why certain dogs appearantly chose to starve themselves. Does anyone know any causes behind this behaviour, like genetic make up, physiological disorders, lack of competetion, their social relationship with their masters. etc. , and does anyone have any suggestion how to design an experiment to find out more about one of the above mentioned factors? Very grateful for all kind of suggestions and answers! Anna Blomberg From: IN%"vof@tattoo.ed.ac.uk" "Valerie O'Farrell" 24-NOV-1996 16:11:03.62 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: lost iguana my daughter who is a medical student in Glasgow (I'm in Edinburgh) has been on the phone in a great state because her iguana, Funky, has been missing in her flat since yesterday: they have hunted everywhere. He is a male about 2-3 feet long including tail. I suggested turning the heating up to make him more active. Any other bright ideas gratefully received Thanks Valerie O'Farrell From: IN%"afischer@zoo.uvm.edu" 24-NOV-1996 19:54:11.66 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: fish newsgroups Does any one know of and how to get to a discussion group concering marine fish keeping? Thanks. From: IN%"cs196@soton.ac.uk" "Clair Sparkes" 25-NOV-1996 02:26:58.36 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: IN%"cs196@soton.ac.uk" Subj: Lebistes reticulatus I have been reading about Lebistes reticulatus and their response to stimuli. I was interested to read in a paper by Russell that she believes the process of habituation in these guppies to a 'fear' stimulus is under hormonal influence. She found that although when continously presented with a stimulus their movements i.e. 'jerk response' waned quite quickly, their 'freezing' time did not. She attributed this to hormonal influence. Does anyone have any views on this? From: IN%"dynavet@nat.fr" "xavier aubry" 25-NOV-1996 02:47:45.32 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: looking for Ben Hart's address Hello everybody, I'm looking for the address (snail mail address) of Benjamin HART and for the address of Bonnie BEAVER. Thanks a lot by advance. Xavier Aubry, Vet Behaviorist, France From: IN%"cmoulton@warren-wilson.edu" "Colleen E. Moulton" 25-NOV-1996 08:35:41.28 To: IN%"vof@tattoo.ed.ac.uk" "Valerie O'Farrell" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: lost iguana My iguana has disappeared quite a few times in the past as well. What I found to be most successful is setting up a bright light (preferably a heat lamp) and then turning off all other lights. My iguana had found his way into our heating vents in the house. We, almost completely by accident, had set up a light in our basement kind of near the end of the vent. It had been intended to be used to look into the vent to see if he was in there; one of us had left it on by accident, and the next morning there he was, sitting on the handles to my bike...right in front of the light. Iguanas are naturally attracted to light. So if there is only one source of light in his vicinity...that is where he will most likely go. I hope this helps! Colleen Moulton On Sun, 24 Nov 1996, Valerie O'Farrell wrote: > my daughter who is a medical student in Glasgow (I'm in Edinburgh) has > been on the phone in a great state because her iguana, Funky, has been > missing in her flat since yesterday: they have hunted everywhere. He is > a male about 2-3 feet long including tail. I suggested turning the > heating up to make him more active. Any other bright ideas gratefully > received > > Thanks > > Valerie O'Farrell > From: IN%"auclair@erols.com" "Auclair" 25-NOV-1996 08:41:34.52 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Re:anorexic dogs Dear Anna, I have been a dog trainer and breeder for twenty some years. Dalmations are particularily prone to anorexia/starvation due to metabolic disorders. Something in veterinary medicine can give you more information on this. I have also noticed that pack social behavior can influence the physical and psychological health of an animal. This is particularily a problem when a dog of differing age or litter is added to an exstablished group. This behavior does not seem to be limited to the northern breeds, but is, I believe, particularily strong here (Sibeian Huskies, Samoyeds etc.) You might glance through the work of Durwood Allen if you decide to follow this route. Good luck. Alison Auclair P.S. I'm the mother of Austin-the high school student who has sent all of you the question on "paw preference" for your consideration. I have a BS in Zoology-Ethology from Ohio State University a zillion years ago. I keep my hand in enough to help me in my work with dogs, and teaching natural and environmental science to children. From: IN%"Petra.Mertens@lrz.uni-muenchen.de" 25-NOV-1996 08:59:52.07 To: IN%"SED1522@ed.sac.ac.uk" "Anna Malin Blomberg", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Anorectic dogs I have heared a few times about dogs that seem to refuse to eat. I learned that the dog belonged to very concerened owners that tended to reward their dogs for not eating (mostly without intending to). They started to stand next to the dogs food dish while it ate ("well, I prefer to eat in company of my family..."); later on the dog receives a different kind of diet (often self-made fresh food) and finally the dog will only eat while it`s hand-fed. I have never seen a - healthy - dog that starved itself to death. Attention seems to be an extremely powerful reward! Actually, our family has owned one of these dogs. My mother would swear that he will NOT eat unless he was hand fed (he has always maintained his weight ...). And he would certainly eat less of his regular meals. BUT: he received mulitple "snacks" throughout the day ... a fact Mom would never admit to (hope she`s not subscribing to this newsgroup). When (the poor dog) stayed with me, he was offered his regular food once every day for 15 minutes. Leftovers disappeared. After 2 days he ate like a shark. Sometimes, I saw that dogs refuse some specific brand of food. Mostly "light" products. Same thing happens if an owner starts a dominance training program. The dog has to sit to receive the food reward. I`ve seen dogs that refused food for a maximum of two days - never more than that. Another factor are hormonal changes. Females will eat more before they get into heat ...later on they loose weight (false pregnancy, etc.). Still, they never starve. Males eat less while a female is in oestrus ... and burn more energy trying to breed and fight with the others waiting in the backyard ... If I`m wrong - and healthy dogs have realy stopped eating until they (almost) starved - I`d be happy to learn more about it. Best wishes, Petra _________________ Dr. Petra A. Mertens Institute for Ethology and Animal Welfare Ludwig-Maximilians-University Schwere-Reiter-Str. 9 80797 Muenchen Germany petra.mertens@lrz.uni-muenchen.de From: IN%"Petra.Mertens@lrz.uni-muenchen.de" 25-NOV-1996 09:10:03.62 To: IN%"dynavet@nat.fr" "xavier aubry", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: looking for Ben Hart's address Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 09:56:07 +0200 From: xavier aubry Subject: looking for Ben Hart's address To: Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Hello everybody, I'm looking for the address (snail mail address) of Benjamin HART and for the address of Bonnie BEAVER. Thanks a lot by advance. Xavier Aubry, Vet Behaviorist, France Hallo Xavier, Bonnie Beaver`s adress is: College of Vet. Medicine Texas A&M College Station TX, 77845 Ben Hart University of California Dept. Anatomy and Physiology Davis, CA 95616 Best wishes, Petra From: IN%"arowan@OPAL.TUFTS.EDU" 25-NOV-1996 15:05:50.85 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: MS Degree For all those interested in pursuing graduate work in animals issues, the following might be of interest. MASTER OF SCIENCE ANIMALS AND PUBLIC POLICY Tufts Center for Animals and Public Policy (Tufts School of Veterinary Medicine, 200 Westboro Rd, N. Grafton, MA 01536, USA: Tel: (508) 839 7991; Fax: (508) 839 2953) is offering a one- year, graduate degree dealing with animals and public policy. This is the only graduate degree program in North America (and possibly the world) in the field of human-animal relationships and related public policies. It is a full-time program that is expected to take nine months (but no more than twelve) to complete. Although relatively little time will be spent in lectures, a substantial amount of reading, writing and independent study will be required. The program consists of three core courses, four tutorial (or independent study) courses and a thesis project. The three core courses are: Animals and Society (80+ lecture hours extending throughout the year); Quantitative Methods and Reasoning (40+ lecture hours plus lab time using Statview-Mac); Qualitative Methods and Reasoning (40+ lecture hours plus field practicals). Students will then be expected to select four tutorial courses from over fifty possible choices offered by approximately thirty program and guest faculty from a wide range of disciplines. Each tutorial course will last for eight weeks and will consist of extensive readings, the preparation of several papers and the examination of those papers with the tutor in a face-to-face session. Tutorial offerings are currently loosely grouped into four tracks - an Issues track, a Companion Animal/Shelter track, a Wild Animals/Environment track, and an Animals as Co- therapists track. Students will also be expected to complete a project leading to a thesis. This thesis may consist of hypothesis-driven research, the development of a detailed public policy case study, or a descriptive or analytical project. The thesis should have the potential to be accepted for publication in an academic journal. PROGRAM REQUIREMENTS Applicants for admission should have either a graduate degree OR a bachelor's degree combined with a work history that indicates experience in the gathering and/or analysis of data or argument. Applicants should have completed at least two semesters in either animal or human biology. Applicants should submit a completed application form (obtainable from the Center for Animals and Public Policy), college grade transcripts and letters of evaluation. Those who have not completed a PhD, DVM, MD or similar degree will be required to submit GRE General Test scores taken within the last five years. Applicants who do not have english as their home language will also have to submit TOEFL Test scores. All applicants will be required to complete an essay as part of the application package and, in some cases, an interview may be required. TUITION The tuition for the 1996/97 class is just over $18,000. Because it is a full-time program, US citizens are eligible to apply for student loans. For more information on financial aid or to receive financial aid forms, contact the Tufts Financial Aid office at (617) 636 7600. LOCATION The core courses will be taught at the North Grafton campus of the Tufts School of Veterinary Medicine. Grafton is close to Worcester and about 40 miles west of Boston. Although there is no student housing on the campus, there are apartments available in Grafton and surrounding communities. Grafton is a semi-rural bedroom community and is not served by public transport. Therefore, a car is a necessity. FACULTY The Core faculty for the 1995/96 program include the Program Director, Dr Andrew Rowan (animals in society, animals and public policy), Dr Arnold Arluke (sociologist), Dr Gary Patronek (epidemiologist), Dr Elizabeth Lawrence (veterinarian and anthropologist), Ms Jennifer Lewis (wildlife policy), Dr Mark Pokras (veterinarian, wildlife rehabilitation), Dr Clinton Sanders (sociologist), and Professor Jerrold Tannenbaum (ethics, philosophy, animal jurisprudence). Additional faculty include philosophers, english scholars, sociologists, psychologists, historians, lawyers, social workers, animal behaviorists, animal organization professionals and veterinarians. TO REQUEST AN APPLICATION PACKAGE, CALL OR WRITE TO THE CENTER FOR ANIMALS & PUBLIC POLICY, TUFTS UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF VETERINARY MEDICINE, 200 WESTBORO AVE, N. GRAFTON, MA 01536, USA. EMAIL REQUESTS MAY BE SENT TO: DPEASE@OPAL.TUFTS.EDU OR AROWAN@OPAL.TUFTS.EDU. PLEASE BE SURE TO INCLUDE A SNAILMAIL ADDRESS WHERE THE APPLICATION MATERIALS SHOULD BE SENT. Our first class of 8 students has just graduated. Two are working for animal protection organizations, one is applying to veterinary school, one is applying to do a PhD in wildlife management, one is setting p a consultancy in Washington, DC, one is spending a year gaining practical farm experience and two are seeking work in the companion animal field (both have received job offers but turned them down as being unsuitable). Andrew N Rowan Director Tufts Center for Animals and Public Policy School of Veterinary Medicine 200 Westboro Rd N. Grafton, MA 01536 Phone: (508) 839 7991; Fax: (508) 839 2953 Email: arowan@opal.tufts.edu From: IN%"shrewbib@sorex.vienna.at" 25-NOV-1996 17:29:37.07 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: shrews (soricidae, insectivora, mammalia) Dear colleagues, (If this message has already reached you via another newsgroup, I apology for cross-posting). Please take notice of my URL and visit my internet web-site: 'The Shrew (ist's) Site': http://members.vienna.at/shrew The web-site should become a platform for all researchers of Soricidae (Insectivora, Mammalia) and promote international co-operation. It contains: info on shrews, shrew bibliography, an inquiry forum, links, shrewists on Email, congress announcements, shrew photos, shrew dictionary etc. - It is still under construction and I hope that it will improve, maybe by your contribution... (most welcome). Please also take note of the availability of the: "The Shrew Bibliography". - A collection of more than 6000 references to research on the biology of the Soricidae (Insectivora, Mammalia) and small mammal ecology. I. CD-ROM Version 1995 (including keywords). ISBN 3-9500483-0-8. II. Printed Version 1995. ISBN 3-9500483-1-6. (Maybe you or your departpent is interested). Thank you for your co-operation. Yours sincerely, Werner ============================================================= Dr. Werner Haberl Hamburgerstr. 11 A-1050 Vienna, Austria Email: shrewbib@sorex.vienna.at URL: http://members.vienna.at/shrew (The Shrew (ist's) Site) ============================================================== From: IN%"BSteele64@aol.com" 25-NOV-1996 22:43:35.72 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Re:boarding dog behaviour Thank you so much for your time, many of the articles and readings you have mentioned we have eventually found and the ones we haven't we will keep on looking. They are mostly about sheltered dogs, but we are finding ways to correlate the two. Thank You So Much- Shana Kinsley Katherine Nerney From: IN%"chris@vrg.se" "Christian Kjellander" 26-NOV-1996 02:38:57.09 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Hi, My name is Christian Kjellander and I am 18 years old. I live in suburb of Stockholm. One of my oldest interest is ethology. My question to you is? Most mammals are using polygamy and females are often taking care of there young animals. Birds on the contrary are often monogamous and share custody of there young birds. Why is it so that most birds are monogamous and most mammals are polygamous. Please include examples? thanks in advance Christian Kjellander chris@vrg.se From: IN%"a.lawrence@sac005.ed.sac.ac.uk" "Alistair Lawrence" 26-NOV-1996 04:44:32.49 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Behavioural Post BEHAVIOURAL POST The Genetics and Behavioural Sciences Department The Scottish Agricultural College at Edinburgh This core post is an exciting opportunity for a behavioural scientist with a sound theoretical background, creative flair, good experimental skills and a proven ability to produce to targets. The succesful candidate will have a pivotal role in providing a strong behavioural theme to a research programme covering pigs, sheep and dairy cattle. We offer the opportunity to join a vibrant and highly succesful department, and will provide the post-holder with a well resourced research environment. The precise research programme will be strongly influenced by the post-holders interests and expertise. Candidates should have at least 3 years post-graduate experiences in a relevant science. The salary scale is stlg14,122-stlg23,009 (stlg27,725 possible with performance pay) per annum. Application forms and further particulars may be obtained from The Personnel Unit, Scottish Agricultural College, West Mains Road, Edinburgh EH9 3JG. Telephone: (0131) 535 4343 (24 hour answering machine). Fax: (0131-535-4322). The closing date for applications is 20th December 1996. Please quote reference 60/96. If required further details can also be obtained from: Alistair Lawrence: email address: a.lawrence@ed.sac.ac.uk. From: IN%"robin@coape.win-uk.net" "Robin E Walker" 26-NOV-1996 04:51:54.32 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: What not to do! With regard to Chasing Cars and the excellent advice of Bill Campbell..I would like to add a note on "what not to do". Hurling buckets of water at dogs from moving vehicles Dear Sir, Recent advice in the Popular Doggy Press on the subject of preventing dogs from chasing tractors or lorries includes the old chestnut that sudden loud noises or the projection of a bucketful of water from the vehicle can be useful training measures. As a child and up until I qualified I worked with cattle and dogs,in particular Border Collies. I have to say that the predatory pursuit of the cow by the heel nipping dogs was hardly ever deterred by solid kicks, dollopings with hot faeces and sudden drenchings with warm urine. Loud noises caused by angry hurling of items of agricultural furniture in the direction of the miscreant "gripper" (the current euphemism for a sheepdog which is trying to kill its prey) were equally ineffective. Indeed the net result of these antics was to train the dog to move and nip (or grip) more quickly! Leaving aside the question of the desirability (or even legality) of wasting water from moving vehicles on the Highway, the mechanics of the exercise merit examination. The driver must clearly concentrate wholly upon the road and other users. The person balancing the brimming bucket must not distract the driver or (crucially) be clearly perceived by the dog as the originator. This really requires the presence of a third person as rear seat observer whose task is to spot the dog and give the command "now!". A major difficulty is, of course, the collies tendency to "heel" the vehicle. To deal with this a hatchback with the "hatch" open must be employed. The bucket hurler must then have his/her legs firmly held by a fourth person to retain him/her safely within the car. The time and dedication of four such exemplary citizens would be better used were they to attend with their own cars and provide a cavalcade of opportunities (with due regard for other road users) which the Behaviourist could use to implement recently developed techniques of frustrative non- reward and counter-conditioning. (vide Bill's protocol) Robin Walker From: IN%"MAPPLEBY@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk" "Mike Appleby" 26-NOV-1996 06:58:14.69 To: IN%"chris@vrg.se" "Christian Kjellander" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: parental care and homeothermy Dear Christian et al. > Most mammals are using polygamy and females are often taking care of there > young animals. Birds on the contrary are often monogamous and share custody > of there young birds. Why is it so that most birds are monogamous and most > mammals are polygamous. Please include examples? I think the answer is that birds and mammals evolved so differently in how they produce their young and allow their young to control their body temperature - to be homeothermic (in contrast to the 'cold-blooded' poikilothermic ancestors). Mammals are viviparous and young are generally born at a relatively advanced stage; the mother then provides milk at body temperature. These factors mean that if there are reasonable supplies of resources, she can raise the offspring on her own - hence simultaneous or serial polygyny. In birds the development of the young before hatching is limited by the supplies which can be stored in the egg and they are 'born' at a relatively undeveloped stage. They are then generally fed cold food. These factors mean that young birds have a period during which rapid feeding and development is critical, with the demands of controlling body temperature even greater than those of mammals, and this generally requires two parents. It would be interesting to speculate on examples, particularly exceptions. On a related topic, most of our domesticated birds are from only 2 of the 20 Orders of 'modern' birds (Neognathous birds, i.e. excluding ratites). Ten of the 11 generally listed are galliforms (hens etc.) or anseriforms (ducks etc.; the exception is the dove). I recently realised that these are in fact the only two orders in which the mother does not feed the young. That is of enormous importance in domestic husbandry, because it means that we can take the hen's eggs away from her, incubate them and raise the chicks separately. But I am wondering whether this is partly 'coincidence'. At the time when these species were being domesticated, the hens would obviously have been left to rear the chicks themselves (although artificial incubators were used by the Romans). So was it luck or judgement? Mike Appleby mappleby@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk From: IN%"ACROOK@upei.ca" "Alice Crook" 26-NOV-1996 08:29:57.25 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: IN%"jrthomp@unixg.ubc.ca", IN%"anzccart@waite.adelaide.edu.au" Subj: Animal Welfare Course A one semester postgraduate course in Animal Welfare is being offered externally through the SA Centre for Veterinary Studies at the University of Adelaide in South Australia. It was offered externally for the first time in 1996, with very positive feedback. The 13 week course commences in March 1997 and covers a wide range of animal welfare issues. A background in veterinary medicine or a biological science is required for enrolment, which closes December 20, 1996. For more information, contact: Dr. Robert Baker, Course Convenor anzccart@waite.adelaide.edu.au Alice Crook, DVM Coordinator, Animal Welfare Unit Atlantic Veterinary College University of Prince Edward Island 550 University Ave. Charlottetown, PEI C1A 4P3 902-628-4360 *** (FAX)902-566-0958 From: IN%"cmoulton@warren-wilson.edu" "Colleen E. Moulton" 26-NOV-1996 13:35:20.50 To: IN%"chris@vrg.se" "Christian Kjellander" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: your mail From courses I have taken here in college on vertebrates and their behvaiors, I have learned that the reason more birds are monogamous is because they NEED to be. It takes one bird to keep the nest warm and watch over the young, and another bird to find food (as birds cannot produce milk as mammals can..with the exception of the mourning dove (?) ) The raising of mammals can usually be done by only one parent. There is no nest to be kept warm before the offspring are born (so the mother can take them with her to find food), and once they are born the mother produces milk for them. She only needs to leave them to get food for herself; and as mammals have fur the young are able to keep themselves warm during the time she is gone. I hope that answered your question adequately :) Colleen Moulton On Tue, 26 Nov 1996, Christian Kjellander wrote: > Hi, My name is Christian Kjellander and I am 18 years old. I live in suburb > of Stockholm. One of my oldest interest is ethology. My question to you is? > > Most mammals are using polygamy and females are often taking care of there > young animals. Birds on the contrary are often monogamous and share custody > of there young birds. Why is it so that most birds are monogamous and most > mammals are polygamous. Please include examples? > > thanks in advance > Christian Kjellander > chris@vrg.se > > > > From: IN%"100625.3173@CompuServe.COM" "Elizabeth Kershaw" 26-NOV-1996 16:31:29.34 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "APPLIED-ETHOLOGY" CC: Subj: Introduction As I have recently joined this list I felt that should introduce myself. My name is Elizabeth Kershaw and I work as a dog trainer and companion animal behaviour counsellor in West Berkshire, UK. On taking early retirement from my post as an education adviser, I started Canine Education as a natural extension of my previous skills and hobbies. I have just completed the course work of the University of Southampton's Advanced Diploma in Companion Animal Behaviour Counselling which has been very absorbing and now await results! I am currently a member of the UK Register of Canine Behaviourists. I look forward to reading and participating in your discussions. Elizabeth Kershaw, Canine Education, West Berkshire, UK From: IN%"Heeler@aol.com" 27-NOV-1996 01:13:40.40 To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: No Subject In a message dated 96-11-26 04:16:43 EST, you write: >. Birds on the contrary are often monogamous and share custody >of there young birds. It may have something to do with the fact that birds in the nest can be cared for by either sex, whereas mammals can only be fed by their mamas until they're weaned. Cheers, Margie, NY From: IN%"l.noldus@noldus.nl" 27-NOV-1996 05:28:12.69 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: JOB OPENING [1] - Washington DC area Position offered: Sales Representative Location: Sterling, Virginia, U.S.A. Job number: 961101 Noldus Information Technology develops software for computer-aided observation, recording and analysis of human or animal behavior. Our software packages run on PCs or Macintosh computers, interfaced with various sorts of audio/video equipment, thus forming integrated observational systems. Besides standard products such as The Observer, EthoVision, Signal/RTS and UltraVox we offer custom software development, training and consulting services. Our systems are used in research institutes and industrial laboratories in over 60 countries. Our company, which currently employs 24 people, has its headquarters in Wageningen, The Netherlands. We have recently opened a U.S. subsidiary in Sterling, Virginia, some 30 miles west of Washington, D.C. JOB DESCRIPTION Our new Sterling office has an opening for a Sales Representative. The Sales Representative is responsible for all activities which drive sales transactions of Noldus products, including prospecting, negotiating and closure of sales. You provide high-quality sales services for customers by supplying follow-up information and presenting the full range of Noldus products and services, and through product demonstrations at trade shows and scientific conferences or at customers' locations. You will also support our direct marketing efforts to promote new products and upgrades. You will develop proficiency on all assigned Noldus products, programs and systems in order to meet or exceed assigned sales revenue objectives. REQUIREMENTS Skills / Abilities: - Strong verbal and written communication skills - Excellent organizational and interpersonal skills - Initiative, enthusiasm, high-energy and positive attitude - PC hardware and operating systems knowledge - Problem solving ability - Interest in scientific applications Education: - College degree or equivalent HOW TO RESPOND If you are interested in this job, please mail a resume and cover letter to Noldus Information Technology Inc., Attn: Human Resources, 6 Pidgeon Hill Drive, Suite 180, Sterling, VA 20165, U.S.A. You can also send your resume and cover letter in ASCII text form via email to info@noldus.com. When responding, please refer to the job number. For any further information, feel free to call Bart van Roekel at 1-800-355-9541. __________________________________ Dr. L.P.J.J. Noldus Managing Director Noldus Information Technology b.v. Costerweg 5 P.O. Box 268 6700 AG Wageningen The Netherlands Phone: +31-(0)317-497677 Fax: +31-(0)317-424496 E-mail: L.Noldus@noldus.nl WWW: http://www.diva.nl/noldus/ From: IN%"l.noldus@noldus.nl" 27-NOV-1996 05:28:13.71 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: JOB OPENING [2] - Washington DC area Position offered: Product Specialist Location: Sterling, Virginia, U.S.A. Job number: 961102 Noldus Information Technology develops software for computer-aided observation, recording and analysis of human or animal behavior. Our software packages run on PCs or Macintosh computers, interfaced with various sorts of audio/video equipment, thus forming integrated observational systems. Besides standard products such as The Observer, EthoVision, Signal/RTS and UltraVox we offer custom software development, training and consulting services. Our systems are used in research institutes and industrial laboratories in over 60 countries. Our company, which currently employs 24 people, has its headquarters in Wageningen, The Netherlands. We have recently opened a U.S. subsidiary in Sterling, Virginia, some 30 miles west of Washington, D.C. JOB DESCRIPTION Our new Sterling office has an opening for a Product Specialist who will serve as the technical intermediary between Noldus products and its (potential) users. You will be responsible for a broad range of activities which help prospects understand how our products can fulfill their research needs, and for technical support to current users. Your job will include the following tasks, in order of priority: - Provide technical support to users via telephone or email, - Teach observational methods, data analysis, and the use of Noldus products to new users, - Carry out feasibility studies for prospective customers, and - Support Noldus sales efforts through product demonstrations at trade shows and scientific conferences or at customers' locations. REQUIREMENTS Skills / Abilities: - Service-oriented personality - Strong verbal and written communication skills - Excellent organizational and interpersonal skills - Initiative, enthusiasm, high-energy and positive attitude - PC hardware and operating systems knowledge - Problem solving ability - Must be willing to travel Education: - College degree in psychology or biology with a major in human or animal behavior Experience: - Experience in observational methods, behavior analysis, statistics - Working knowledge of Noldus products desirable but not required HOW TO RESPOND If you are interested in this job, please mail a resume and cover letter to Noldus Information Technology Inc., Attn: Human Resources, 6 Pidgeon Hill Drive, Suite 180, Sterling, VA 20165, U.S.A. You can also send your resume and cover letter in ASCII text form via email to info@noldus.com. When responding, please refer to the job number. For any further information, feel free to call Bart van Roekel at 1-800-355-9541. __________________________________ Dr. L.P.J.J. Noldus Managing Director Noldus Information Technology b.v. Costerweg 5 P.O. Box 268 6700 AG Wageningen The Netherlands Phone: +31-(0)317-497677 Fax: +31-(0)317-424496 E-mail: L.Noldus@noldus.nl WWW: http://www.diva.nl/noldus/ From: IN%"cs196@soton.ac.uk" "clair sparkes" 27-NOV-1996 07:39:16.09 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: IN%"cs196@soton.ac.uk" Subj: Net Referencing I wonder if anyone knows the correct method of referencing WWW and E-mail pages within a scientific paper? I have become a bit boggled with all the citation information on the web, and have not been able to track down an absolute method applicable to Scientific papers? Can anyone help? Clair Sparkes (cs196) From: IN%"nlp@star.org" "Nancy Prince" 27-NOV-1996 08:35:11.26 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Net Referencing At 01:38 PM 11/27/96 +0000, you wrote: >I wonder if anyone knows the correct method of referencing >WWW and E-mail pages within a scientific paper? I do not know if there is a universally accepted method of citing web pages. Oak Ridge National Laboratory (ORNL) cites web sites in scientific and research papers as: "Page Title," URL http://www.whatever.what/what, date. ...Where the Page Title is header title information of the web page. If you look at the HTML source code, those are the words between the tags. If the site owner has not supplied the information, use the first, main heading on the page. ...Where the URL is the complete path/file name ...Where the date is the date that you saw the information on that web page. It is very important to put in the date because web pages are so ephemeral and an entire web site may radically change or even disappear literally overnight. Since one major point of references is to allow readers to go to the source and background material if they wish, most authors have taken to printing a copy of the web page and then either including it in the document as an addenda/appendix or else filing it in an archive that they maintain. In the case of the later they cite it as "Page Title," URL http://www.whatever.what/what, date (archived by Jane Q. Author, Title of Author's Position, Author's University). ORNL cites e-mail exactly as if it were hard-copy letters since the e-mail, unlike the web page, is not going to be changed. Again, some some authors do print a copy and then either attach it to their work or file it, in which case an "archived by" notation, similar to the one for web pages, is added to the citation. Please note that there is variation in how these "documents" are cited between departments and even divisions at ORNL, as some divisions/departments/projects have to meet special reporting needs for specific DOE programs. Hope this is of some use. Nancy Prince (very recently of ORNL) Prince Virtual Communications nlp@star.org (personal e-mail) nlp@princevc.com (business e-mail) http://www.princevc.com From: IN%"gqfce@mlucom2.urz.uni-halle.DE" "Christian Peter (Stud. 94)" 27-NOV-1996 11:07:34.96 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: guide dogs can anyone give me some informations about: guide dogs in Germany guide dog schools in Germany guide dog trainer apprenticeships in Germany or any other guide dog informations related to Germany my name is Christian Peter, Halle/S. thank you for your reply From: IN%"gabouryc@EM.AGR.CA" "Chantal Gaboury" 27-NOV-1996 13:18:43.13 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE-RE-play >To all, >I am very much enjoying the play discussion (thanx all). I was >wondering, if play is used to practice adult behaviours, why don't we >see it in "lower animals" such as insects, inverts, reptiles etc. I >remember reading something about "excess energy" in a book by Fagen. >The theory was that young animals have excess energy and play >behaviour is a way for them to expend some of this energy...does >anyone have any comments? >Chantal Gaboury >gabouryc@em.agr.ca > Dear Chantal, You must consider that practice adult behaviours is needed when much (or most) of the individual's behavioural repertoire is "learnt" and is not performed more or less automatically because under strict genetic control. This also explains why play is recorded mostly in species with complex central nervous system, then excluding your "lower animals". Besides, if you consider that typical play has strong social basis for its performance you understand why we observe it again mostly in birds and mammals, ie species with both well developed social structure and complex brain. Davide Dear Davide and others, I certainly agree with the idea that animals that must perform complex behaviours which are learned and not innate as adults must practice them when they are young. However, I think this idea would not necessarily eliminate fish or insects or reptiles from from the list of animals that play. Nor would the idea that "animals play to form social bonds" exclude fish or insects. This is why I think in addition to the idea that young birds and mammals ultimately play to practice complex adult behaviours, is it possible that because of the fact that these animals are homeotherms, or warm-blooded, that when the animals are young, the mechanism for play behaviour might be that any excess energy might go towards play, and not towards growth, as it would, say, in fish? By contrase, perhaps in the mature adult birds and mammals any excess energy would go towards reproduction? And that's why they play less. One step towards the answer to this question would be to ask whether malnourished animals (or humans) play...does anyone know? Chantal Gaboury gabouryc@em.agr.ca From: IN%"dodsworth@siggraph.org" 27-NOV-1996 14:56:52.74 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Birdwhistle quote - seeking a reference Hi, all- I work in the 3D online virtual worlds business, and have found a startling lack of knowledge in the practitioners. They tend to keep "discovering" things about human/mammalian social behavior that any ethology student learns early on. I have the opportunity to talk about this occasionally, and would like to accurately use a quote I heard long ago. Did Ray Birdwhistle initiate the phrase "blooming, buzzing confusion"? If he did, in what context? I've been attributing it casually all along, but I want to be accurate when it goes into print. I've done a web search, perhaps poorly, and haven't come up with anything. Thank you, and Best regards, -Clark Dodsworth Osage Associates: Product development, with interfaces. v: 415-567-7711 / f: 415-567-3144 / e: dodsworth@siggraph.org 3420 Pierce St., #5 San Francisco, CA 94123 From: IN%"randy_fulk@mail.ehnr.state.nc.us" "Randy Fulk" 27-NOV-1996 17:15:08.66 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: avian monogamy Hello all, The discussion on monogamy vs. polygamy flashed my back to a number of discussions on this topic in a variety of seminars I attended in graduate school. As I remember the gist of these discussions the distinction between monogamous species and polygamous species is anything but clear. If one looks closely at the mating behavior of a typically monogamous species, one is likely to find some individuals who mate polygamously. What determines the mating strategy are such ecological factors as availability of mates, ability to sequester food or nesting resources, abundance of food, competition for mates and probably a few hundred other factors that I have forgotten. In my work with Mockingbirds, a typically monogamous species, I observed one female that regularly abandoned her fledglings, leaving them to be fed by her mate. She then switched territories and mated and nested with the neighboring male. At one time she had nestlings with one male and fledglings with another. If I remember correctly there is a fairly extensive literature on facultative polygamy and the ecological conditions that support mate switching and extra-pair copulations. A place to start would be R.L. Trivers paper in the early '70's (1972 I think). As always, the closer you look, the more complicated things get, but also the more interesting. Randy Fulk North Carolina Zoological Park randy_fulk@mail.ehnr.state.nc.us From: IN%"billcamp@cdsnet.net" 27-NOV-1996 19:55:45.57 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: DOWN EATING HORSE To all respondents re. this interesting behavior... Thanks a bundle. I'm sure Dave and _Sweet_ (the horse) feel more comfortable with his behavior now. Bill Campbell From: IN%"Petra.Mertens@lrz.uni-muenchen.de" 28-NOV-1996 01:23:49.30 To: IN%"gqfce@mlucom2.urz.uni-halle.DE" "Christian Peter (Stud. 94)", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: guide dogs Dear Christian, please contact Sybille Rehmann, a coworker of mine. She is a) writing her doctorate thesis about training/schools for guide dogs b) is a vet. + certified trainer / "Pruefer" Her adress is: Sibylle Rehmann Institut fuer Tierhygiene, Verhaltenskunde und Tierschutz Tieraerztliche Fakultaet der Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitaet Schwere-Reiter-Str. 9 80797 Muenchen Fax: 089/15 78 277 Tel.: 089/ 15 56 40 email can be sent to my adress. I will be happy to forward it: petra.mertens@lrz.uni-muenchen.de Best wishes, Petra Mertens From: IN%"Petra.Mertens@lrz.uni-muenchen.de" 28-NOV-1996 01:57:58.96 To: IN%"gqfce@mlucom2.urz.uni-halle.DE" "Christian Peter (Stud. 94)", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: guide dogs Dear Christian, please contact Sybille Rehmann, a coworker of mine. She is a) writing her doctorate thesis about training/schools for guide dogs b) is a vet. + certified trainer / "Pruefer" Her adress is: Sibylle Rehmann Institut fuer Tierhygiene, Verhaltenskunde und Tierschutz Tieraerztliche Fakultaet der Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitaet Schwere-Reiter-Str. 9 80797 Muenchen Fax: 089/15 78 277 Tel.: 089/ 15 56 40 email can be sent to my adress. I will be happy to forward it: petra.mertens@lrz.uni-muenchen.de Best wishes, Petra Mertens From: IN%"uknierim@Itt.tiho-hannover.de" 28-NOV-1996 04:09:06.42 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: semi-wild cattle Hallo everybody, does anyone know if there are mechanism in semi-wild cattle herds with constant presence of an old bull to prevent matings with half grown females? Best wishes Ute ******************************************************** Dr. Ute Knierim Institute of Animal Hygiene and Welfare Veterinary School of Hanover Buenteweg 17p D-30559 Hannover Tel +49 (0)511 953 8449 Fax +49 (0)511 953 8588 email uknierim@itt.tiho-hannover.de ******************************************************** From: IN%"cs196@soton.ac.uk" "C.Sparkes" 28-NOV-1996 11:14:16.16 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: biology of tilapia I remember reading a message on this service by someone who was working on tilapia. I am interested to find out about the biology of tilapia (I'm workin on data collected on tilapia in malawi) and wonder whether someone can suggest a good starting point for references. I presently know nothing about them, and references here in Southampton, UK are a bit sparse. I hope someone can help. clair please send replies to: cs196@soton.ac.uk and to armspar@aol.com thank you From: IN%"shrewbib@sorex.vienna.at" 28-NOV-1996 18:29:52.78 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: frogs & shrews Since no-one answered to this query yet..... (STILL SORRY FOR CROSS-POSTING TO SEVERAL NEWSGROUPS/LISTSERV) Dear colleagues, maybe someone can help me with the following: 1) I have observed and photographed an individual of Rana temporaria behaving in a manner that is commonly known as the "unken-reflex" (covering the eyes with the "hands", "looking through" between first and second digit. As far as I know (not being a herpetologist) this behaviour is common only for Bombina and some Salamanders. Has anybody observed this posture in Rana, or could anybody give me some info on this? Any Information would be helpful. 2) In the past years we have found several locations at Austria's Lake Neusiedl with depots of killed and partially eaten frogs (Rana lessonae / esculenta). We would like to know about the predators. I know that the European water shrew (Neomys fodiens) kills, stores and eats frogs. But I also know that this behaviour is typical for Mustela putorius. We are uncertain about the predator. The signs, according to the eating patterns (sometimes very fine: small, juvenile frogs skeleted at the hind or forelimbs and/ or eyes eaten) suggest that it must have been a small predator like a shrew. Other circumstances (the great number of killed frogs, the large body size of some frogs and the literature referring to Mustelidae) still confuses us. Killing frogs and only eating the liver is also reported from Rallus aquaticus (Aves). We want to find out more by some fieldwork (trapping) next year, but I would be grateful if anybody could supply us with some information on this topic. Thank you in advance, Werner ============================================================= Dr. Werner Haberl Hamburgerstr. 11 A-1050 Vienna, Austria Email: shrewbib@sorex.vienna.at URL: http://members.vienna.at/shrew (The Shrew (ist's) Site) CHECK IT! ============================================================== From: IN%"D.Goodwin@soton.ac.uk" "debbie goodwin" 29-NOV-1996 05:15:52.79 To: IN%"cs196@soton.ac.uk" "C.Sparkes" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: References on tilapia Hi Clare, there are people working in the same building as you, on the floor above you with tilapia too! I can introduce you if you are shy :-) I'm on the same floor as you...just across the corridor, and if no-one in your group can show you how to use the library searching system (OPAC), or the journal searching system (BIDS) which is available on the University's network, then I will be only too happy to help. We can get almost any reference via the interlibrary loan system. So don't dispair, Southampton isn't quite as devoid of resources as you are suggesting! Come and introduce yourself Debbie D.Goodwin PhD dg1@soton.ac.uk Anthrozoology Institute University of Southampton UK On Thu, 28 Nov 1996 17:08:54 +0000 C.Sparkes wrote: > I am interested to find out about the biology of tilapia (I'm workin > on data collected on tilapia in malawi) and wonder whether someone can suggest > a good starting point for references. I presently know nothing about them, and > references here in Southampton, UK are a bit sparse. > > I hope someone can help. > > clair From: IN%"richards@hula.net" 29-NOV-1996 16:26:22.18 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: tilapia Dear Clair, The University of Hawaii Sea Grant Program has supported tilapia research for aquaculture, and may have useful info on biology. Try Web Crawler with "university of Hawaii - Sea Grant", then click on, Projects & Services, Research, Marine Technology, Biotechnology, respectively. You'll end up with the names of those involved with tilapia. Also, try Yahoo, using the word "tilapia", again you'll end up with info geared more toward tilapia aquaculture, but it should have some of the information you're seeking. Best of luck Dawn From: IN%"morrisji@gov.on.ca" "Jim Morris" 30-NOV-1996 12:42:50.14 To: IN%"AG150AB@ncccot.agr.ca" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology", IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: References- reproductive performance, loose housed vs confined dry sows Peter: It is good to hear from you. Dr. Hurnik and I have been studing the HM system for several years and published a few papers on the system. Our recent work is outlined in the 1996 Ontario Swine Research Report where we examined the effect of group and individual stall housing of gestating sows over a number of prities. I hope that this is helpful. You may want to get in touch with Herman Vermeer at Rosmalen in the Netherlands who has studied numerous group housing systems at the Rosmalen research station. Yours, Jim Morris On Fri, 25 Oct 1996 AG150AB@ncccot.agr.ca wrote: > Dear all > I would appreciate receiving any references people know of that compare > the reproductive performance of loose (group) housed vs confined (stall) dry > sows. > > thank-you > > Peter Phillips > From: IN%"morrisji@gov.on.ca" "Jim Morris" 30-NOV-1996 12:44:40.63 To: IN%"AG150AB@ncccot.agr.ca" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology", IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: References- reproductive performance, loose housed vs confined dry sows Peter: It is good to hear from you. Dr. Hurnik and I have been studing the HM system for several years and published a few papers on the system. Our recent work is outlined in the 1996 Ontario Swine Research Report where we examined the effect of group and individual stall housing of gestating sows over a number of prities. I hope that this is helpful. You may want to get in touch with Herman Vermeer at Rosmalen in the Netherlands who has studied numerous group housing systems at the Rosmalen research station. Yours, Jim Morris On Fri, 25 Oct 1996 AG150AB@ncccot.agr.ca wrote: > Dear all > I would appreciate receiving any references people know of that compare > the reproductive performance of loose (group) housed vs confined (stall) dry > sows. > > thank-you > > Peter Phillips > From: IN%"shrewbib@sorex.vienna.at" 30-NOV-1996 13:46:02.60 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: shrew pictures Dear colleagues etc, Since my Site was recently (favourably) reviewed by "inScight" (Sience Magazine & Academic Press Inc." (http://www.europe.apnet.com/inscight!11261996/graphb.htm), stating something like "...the site might propel the lowly shrew to the kind of poster-animal fame of whales and panda bears..." (I never thought about this, actually) *...I would like to ask the members of this newsgroup: Does anyone have pictures of shrews (Soricidae, Insectivora, Mammalia), that I could use on my web-site? (Live shrews, dead shrews, photos, illustrations and even cartoons..). (Poems?). (Copyright, of course, stayes with you). - Please contact me, without bothering the newsgroup! Thank you in advance, Werner ============================================================== Dr. Werner Haberl Hamburgerstr. 11 A-1050 Vienna, Austria Email: shrewbib@sorex.vienna.at URL: http://members.vienna.at/shrew (The Shrew (ist's) Site) ============================================================== From: IN%"mkhd@earthlink.net" 30-NOV-1996 16:57:02.36 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Introduction Dear all I subscribed to the mailing list about a fourtnight ago, so it was about time I introduced myself: My Name is Sonja Doll-Sonderegger. I was an MSc student with the ethology and wildlife research department at the University of Zurich, Switzerland. My thesis research focussed on the social integration of dogs into a boarding kennel, and a research paper presenting some of my results has just appeared in Animal Welfare, the journal of Universities Federation for Animal Welfare, UK (Sonderegger, S.M. & Turner D.C. (1996):Introducing Dogs into Kennels: Prediction of Social Tendencies to Facilitate Integration, Animal Welfare 5(4), 391 - 404.). Since I graduated from University I have been working as a dog behaviour therapist. However, my consultancy is suspended at the moment, as I'm spending a year with my husband in the U.S.A. During this time, I will concentrate on studying human infant behaviour (our little son was born in August this year). I will also do some private observations on the wolves kept at Wolf Park, Battle Ground, IN, and work up the piles of literatur... I'm looking forward to joining in further discussions on canine behaviour in particular, yet I'm also interested in topics like play, aggression, forms of animal cooperation, cat behaviour, as well as human-animal interactions. Sonja Doll-Sonderegger