From: IN%"chris.gotman@sympatico.ca" 23-NOV-1997 20:34:22.48
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Breaking free from APPLIED-ETHOLOGY
Are you locked into APPLIED-ETHOLOGY and you lost the key? Do you really
want out? Well, here's what you do:
In a new email message composition window,
enter:
applied-ethology-request@sask.usask.ca
in the mail to: field.
Leave the subject field blank.
In the body of the message, type:
UNSUBSCRIBE applied-ethology
Don't write anything else. No name, no signature file. That should do
it. If not, write me a nasty note ;-) and I'll try and think of some
other spell. Be sure NOT to send commands to
applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca !
suum cuique
chris gotman
From: IN%"welfare@pobox.ruu.nl" "ICWD (Ruud van den Bos)" 24-NOV-1997 06:00:11.72
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: web-site Animal Welfare Centre (AWC)
Dear all,
Hereby I would like to announce our web-site address:
http://www.dgk.ruu.nl/algemeen_bijzondere_centra_icwd.htm
If you have any comments, questions, suggestions etc. please let me know.
best wishes
Ruud van den Bos PhD
Animal Welfare Centre
Utrecht University
Yalelaan 17
NL-3584 CL Utrecht
the Netherlands
From: IN%"DrDebi@TheProfit.com" "Dr. Debi Spitzfaden" 24-NOV-1997 10:37:24.07
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: RE: web-site Animal Welfare Centre (AWC)
Thanks for inviting us all to your Web site. I was unable to view the
site, however, apparently due either to an incorrect URL or the server
being down.
In addition to my Animal Behaviour work, I am with a company that provides
Web design and hosting in the US. Of late we find ourselves focusing
primarily upon animal-related sites (due mainly to my own interests in that
field). Please let me know if I may be of any assistance.
Debi Spitzfaden, Ph.D.
DrDebi@TheProfit.com
*************************************
At 01:00 PM 11/24/97 +0100, Ruud wrote:
>Dear all,
>
>Hereby I would like to announce our web-site address:
>
>http://www.dgk.ruu.nl/algemeen_bijzondere_centra_icwd.htm
>
>If you have any comments, questions, suggestions etc. please let me know.
>
>best wishes
>
>Ruud van den Bos PhD
>Animal Welfare Centre
>Utrecht University
>Yalelaan 17
>NL-3584 CL Utrecht
>the Netherlands
From: IN%"mouth@wingsisp.com" "Amanda" 24-NOV-1997 14:15:24.40
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Sorry about the chain letter
To whom it may concern,
Yesterday evening I accidentally sent a chain letter to the entire
applied ethology network instead of the single member it was meant for. I
would ask that everyone forgive me. I know how annoying and inconveniant
they are.
Sincerely,
Amanda
From: IN%"hubrecht@ufaw.org.uk" 24-NOV-1997 16:44:11.10
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Animal Welfare November 1997 Contents
Animal Welfare
ISSN 0962-7286
Volume 6 Number 4 November 1997
CONTENTS
ARTICLES
Effects of enrichment and floor type on behaviour of cubicle loose-housed
dry sows 297
J Durrell, I A Sneddon and V E Beattie
The educative role of an Animal Care Committee in Canada: a case study 309
A D Bowd
Released, rehabilitated hedgehogs: a follow-up study in Jersey 317
P A Morris
Housing and welfare in laboratory rats: welfare implications of isolation
and social contact among caged males 329
J L Hurst, C J Barnard, C M Nevison and C D West
Effect of climatic conditions on the behaviour of adult ostriches (Struthio
camelus) in Britain 349
D C Deeming
Effects of foraging enrichment on the behaviour of parrots 357
L E Coulton, N K Waran and R J Young
INVITED ESSAY
Illuminating issues of companion animal welfare through research into
human-animal interactions 365
A L Podberscek
REPORTS AND COMMENTS 373
Care and control of companion, stray and feral cats
FAWC report on the welfare of laying hens
The welfare of animals during transport
EC report on the welfare of laying hens
Pig space requirements
Farmed ratites in Europe
BOOK AND VIDEO REVIEWS 378
Brute Science: Dilemmas of Animal Experimentation
Between Pets and People: The Importance of Animal Companionship
Welfare Aspects of Transgenic Animals: Proceedings EC-Workshop of October
30, 1995
Animal Consciousness and Animal Ethics: Perspectives from the Netherlands
Badgers
Keeping Ducks - Beautiful Comical Things
Robert C Hubrecht
hubrecht@ufaw.org.uk
Deputy Director UFAW
8 Hamilton Close
South Mimms
Potters Bar
Herts EN6 3QD
UK
Tel +44 (0)1707 658202
Fax +44 (0)1707 649279
********* UFAW Web site********
http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~ufaw3/
*****************************
From: IN%"aag029@hermes.ulaval.ca" "Fernando Borderas" 24-NOV-1997 17:43:08.73
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Measuring cortisol
I would appreciate information concerning commercial kits to quantify
cortisol in milk and/or salliva of dairy cows.
Thanks in advance
--
Fernando Borderas T.
Département des sciences animales
Pavillon Paul-Comtois
Université Laval
Québec, Canada
G1K 7P4
From: IN%"danweary@unixg.ubc.ca" "Dan Weary" 24-NOV-1997 18:15:59.52
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Opportunities in the study of animal welfare
A new animal welfare program was launched at the University of British
Columbia (in Vancouver, Canada) in October, 1997, with our appointment as
new faculty members, cross-appointed between the Faculty of Agricultural
Sciences and the University's Centre for Applied Ethics.
As a key element in the program, we want to create research opportunities
and training for graduate students and post-doctoral workers. Our
funding comes from a range of interested parties, including the humane
movement, the veterinary profession, and animal agriculture, and we hope to
develop research projects to address welfare issues relevant to these
various supporters.
Two main areas of graduate and post-doctoral research are envisioned:
(1) Students working in the life sciences, especially with backgrounds in
biology, animal science, and veterinary medicine, will conduct behavioural
or
related research on farm, laboratory, companion, or wild animals (including
fish) directed at significant animal welfare issues.
Possible topics include:
- the use of vocalizations and other behaviours to asses distress in
animals; and
- the study of animals' environmental preferences as a basis for improving
housing design.
and
(2) Students interested in interdisciplinary studies with appropriate
backgrounds in the social sciences, law and other fields are also
encouraged, in
conjunction with the Centre for Applied Ethics.
Possible topics include:
- the adequacy of legal protection of animals in Canada;
- the impact of international trade on animal welfare;
- how economic constraints and incentives affect the welfare of farm
animals; and
- the effectiveness of animal protection programs.
We welcome enquiries from potential graduate students and post-doctoral
workers with a strong interest in animal welfare and outstanding aptitude
for research and team-work. The Animal Welfare Program is developing some
financial support for graduate students, and will assist others in applying
for funding.
David Fraser and Dan Weary
Department of Animal Science and Centre for Applied Ethics
University of British Columbia
2357 Main Mall - Suite 208
Vancouver V6T 1Z4
Canada
tel: 1-604-822-2040 (Fraser), 1-604-822-3954 (Weary)
fax: 1-604-822-4400
E-mail: david.fraser@ubc.ca, danweary@unixg.ubc.ca
http://www.interchange.ubc.ca/agsci/animalsci/chair.html
From: IN%"Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "CM. Sherwin" 25-NOV-1997 10:15:03.82
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: turkey behaviour
Dear All,
I am conducting research on the behaviour of domestic turkeys. I am
wanting to interpret some of their activities in terms of the behaviour of
wild turkeys and their ancestral precursors, however, I believe I have
exhausted other routes of finding information on the behaviour of wild
turkeys. Does anyone out there have experience of wild turkeys or know of
papers on their behaviour? I am particularly interested in -
1) Their mating strategies. Is strutting by the domestic males derived
from their ancestral mating system, e.g. a lek?
2) How precocious are wild turkey chicks and at what age do they disperse
under natural conditions? This could be related to their tendency to
engage in feather pecking and head pecking at very early ages, i.e. within
the first week.
3) Their ability/tendency to feed at night. Groups of 50 turkeys on
8L:16D consumed 0.33 of their 24hr intake in the light and 0.66 in the
dark, indicating that under some conditions, light has no effect on the
probability of their feeding. Do wild turkeys exhibit nocturnal feeding,
or are they like most other avian species and sleep or roost during the
dark phase (though it occurs to me that domestic turkeys would need very
strong trees to roost with any degree of safety!)?
Any information on these issues or pointers to other
sources on the behaviour of wild turkeys would be most appreciated.
My thanks in anticipation.
Chris Sherwin
University of Bristol
From: IN%"eoprice@ucdavis.edu" "Edward O. Price" 25-NOV-1997 10:36:35.51
To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology-error"
CC:
Subj: RE: Opportunities in the study of animal welfare
Dear David and Dan: Sounds like a great program! Good luck.
Ed Price
----------
>From: applied-ethology-error
>To: applied-ethology
>Subject: Opportunities in the study of animal welfare
>Date: Monday, November 24, 1997 4:17PM
>
>A new animal welfare program was launched at the University of British
>Columbia (in Vancouver, Canada) in October, 1997, with our appointment as
>new faculty members, cross-appointed between the Faculty of Agricultural
>Sciences and the University's Centre for Applied Ethics.
>
>As a key element in the program, we want to create research opportunities
>and training for graduate students and post-doctoral workers. Our
>funding comes from a range of interested parties, including the humane
>movement, the veterinary profession, and animal agriculture, and we hope to
>develop research projects to address welfare issues relevant to these
>various supporters.
>
>Two main areas of graduate and post-doctoral research are envisioned:
>
> (1) Students working in the life sciences, especially with backgrounds in
>biology, animal science, and veterinary medicine, will conduct behavioural
>or
>related research on farm, laboratory, companion, or wild animals (including
>fish) directed at significant animal welfare issues.
>
> Possible topics include:
>
>- the use of vocalizations and other behaviours to asses distress in
>animals; and
>- the study of animals' environmental preferences as a basis for improving
>housing design.
>
>and
>
> (2) Students interested in interdisciplinary studies with appropriate
>backgrounds in the social sciences, law and other fields are also
>encouraged, in
>conjunction with the Centre for Applied Ethics.
>
>Possible topics include:
>
>- the adequacy of legal protection of animals in Canada;
>- the impact of international trade on animal welfare;
>- how economic constraints and incentives affect the welfare of farm
>animals; and
>- the effectiveness of animal protection programs.
>
>
>We welcome enquiries from potential graduate students and post-doctoral
>workers with a strong interest in animal welfare and outstanding aptitude
>for research and team-work. The Animal Welfare Program is developing some
>financial support for graduate students, and will assist others in applying
>for funding.
>
>
>David Fraser and Dan Weary
>Department of Animal Science and Centre for Applied Ethics
>University of British Columbia
>2357 Main Mall - Suite 208
>Vancouver V6T 1Z4
>Canada
>
>tel: 1-604-822-2040 (Fraser), 1-604-822-3954 (Weary)
>fax: 1-604-822-4400
>E-mail: david.fraser@ubc.ca, danweary@unixg.ubc.ca
>http://www.interchange.ubc.ca/agsci/animalsci/chair.html
>
>
>
From: IN%"rmaurizi@zoo.uvm.edu" "Robert H. Maurizi" 25-NOV-1997 12:05:02.52
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Obsessive-Compulsive Behavior
Hey all, this may or may not have come up here before, but here goes...
I'm doing research on Obsessive Compulsive behavior in animals, primarily
dogs. I'm wondering if anyone has first-hand info about this-
observations, research, whatever.
please email directly, or if you feel that your info is of use to the
group, post it publicly.
Thanks a bunch and a happy Turkey Behavior day to all
-Rob
========================================
| Rob Maurizi |
| (802) KL5-0420 |
| rmaurizi@zoo.uvm.edu |
| http://www.uvm.edu/~rmaurizi |
| STEP INTO SPACE |
========================================
From: IN%"joseph.stookey@sask.usask.ca" 26-NOV-1997 12:15:21.41
To: IN%"Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "CM. Sherwin"
CC: IN%"STOOKEY@sask.usask.ca", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
Subj: RE: turkey behaviour
On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, CM. Sherwin wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I am conducting research on the behaviour of domestic turkeys. I am
> wanting to interpret some of their activities in terms of the behaviour of
> wild turkeys and their ancestral precursors, however, I believe I have
> exhausted other routes of finding information on the behaviour of wild
> turkeys. Does anyone out there have experience of wild turkeys or know of
> papers on their behaviour? I am particularly interested in -
>
> 1) Their mating strategies. Is strutting by the domestic males derived
> from their ancestral mating system, e.g. a lek?
Dear Chris,
If you have a copy of John Alcock's 1984,3rd edition Animal Behavior: An
Evolutionary Approach, you will find he has 2 pages discussing mating
behaviour of wild turkeys. There is even a photo of a lek of wild turkeys
strutting. Alcock references the 1971 paper by Watts and Stokes, The
social order of turkeys. Scientific American 224:112-118.
> 2) How precocious are wild turkey chicks and at what age do they disperse
> under natural conditions? This could be related to their tendency to
>engage in feather pecking and head pecking at very early ages,i.e. within
> the first week.
I was under the impression, but do not remember the source, that 1-3 hens
will sometimes combine broods after hatching and all travel together in
one flock.
> 3) Their ability/tendency to feed at night. Groups of 50 turkeys on
> 8L:16D consumed 0.33 of their 24hr intake in the light and 0.66 in the
> dark, indicating that under some conditions, light has no effect on the
> probability of their feeding. Do wild turkeys exhibit nocturnal feeding,
> or are they like most other avian species and sleep or roost during the
> dark phase (though it occurs to me that domestic turkeys would need very
> strong trees to roost with any degree of safety!)?
To the best of my knowledge (information gained from articles in hunting
magazines available in any U.S. mechanic's shop, barber shop, dentist or
doctor's office) turkeys are not nocturnal and usually return to a
favorite roosting tree each night. They may leave the tree early in the
morning before dawn, but roost throughout the night.
> Any information on these issues or pointers to other
> sources on the behaviour of wild turkeys would be most appreciated.
>
> My thanks in anticipation.
>
>
> Chris Sherwin
> University of Bristol
>
Hope this helps. I know it doesn't sound very scientific, but if you
could read all the articles about wild turkeys in hunting magazines you
would get a fairly good picture of wild turkey behaviour. Some of these
outdoorsmen/outdoorswomen have spent hours watching wildlife. It also
would not surprise me to learn that somewhere in Marty Stouffer's Wild
America TV show he has put together a documentary on wild turkeys!
Joe Stookey
======================
Joseph M. Stookey
Department of Herd Medicine and Theriogenology
Western College of Veterinary Medicine
University of Saskatchewan
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
S7N 5B4
From: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts" 26-NOV-1997 12:50:39.02
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Machiavellian Intelligence in Domestic Animals?
Is there anyone left out there who hasn't yet unsubscribed from
Applied-Ethology?
Are you all quitting so that your email doesn't pile up while you devote
yourselves to full-time study of the august issue of Applied Animal
Behaviour Science? Has there been another issue since august? If there
has, our library hasn't got it yet. I guess getting together all that
commentary and counter-commentary must have thrown the publishing schedule
out of whack by a few months. I'm not sure why they devoted a whole issue
to a single paper and commentaries. I looked for some kind of editorial
note, but didn't find any. Maybe they have completely cleared the backlog
of original research articles waiting to be published and had to think of
something else to fill up an issue while they wait for some more
submissions to come in. Cool! if I send my paper in now, perhaps they'll
print it right away without even a spellcheck.
Sorry about the previous paragraph, it wasn't my main reason for writing.
So what was?...
I noticed Whiten & Byrne's book "Machiavellian Intelligence" sitting on my
bookshelf minding its own business and I got to wondering if we maybe
don't credit some of our domestic animals with enough social intellect.
For example, I've seen a young bull at pasture, on more than one occasion,
keep an estrous cow away from the majority of the herd and attempt to
court and breed her. Not so surprising that a subordinate animal would
attempt to mate while avoiding competition with an older, superior bull
perhaps. But the young bull seems to take notice of the dominant animal's
perspective and tries not to let him see what he is doing. I've seen
similar activity with sheep a few times, to the extent that when the older
ram comes within sight of the young one, even when quite far away, the
young one may quit paying attention to the ewe and apparently "pretend" to
be disinterested in her.
So is one animal attempting to manipulate another's view of the world? Do
they have a theory of mind? Are they engaging in tactical deception? (Am I
completely cuckoo?) Or are we speciesist in that we apply these lofty
concepts to neat primate tricks and play down equally neat cow tricks?
Just a thought... Has anyone else noticed anything of the sort with
domestic animals and is it appropriate to interpret it in terms of social
intelligence and manipulation of others' states of mind. Or do we have to
blast every nifty idea with Lloyd Morgan"s bleedin' Canon?
Jon
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon Watts (___) ) )
University of Saskatchewan |o o|___________/ (
Dept of Herd Medicine O \#/ | )
and Theriogenology |bser| | Statistical | (
Western College of Vet. Med. |vati| | analysis | )
52 Campus Drive |ons.| \___________/| *&
Saskatoon ------ || || %$#@
S7N 1B4 / \ || || ^*@*~
Canada &^%%#$@
wattsjon@duke.usask.ca "The Holy Cow"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: IN%"eduard.JORIS@planetinternet.be" "E JORIS" 27-NOV-1997 03:11:34.92
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology"
CC:
Subj: Long distance transport of cats and a dog.
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--Boundary_(ID_zm3paj9SP5mRNYuiTG98Ng)
Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Dear All,
I have a question on transport of cats and a dog, long distance (by =
car/plain/car) and I hope you all do not find me cruel for doing so, but =
I am somehow very attached to my animals and see that there are people =
who care as much about their pets as me but not that many. =20
I have always worked in Africa as a vet and already years ago I moved a =
cat from Kenya to The Gambia and afterwards to my parents in Belgium. =
She is a fat and happy European cat now and does not have any trauma =
left from this traveling. Two years ago I moved again household and =
moved 5 cats, a dog and (and my son of 2, and much luggage overweight =
and a baby car seat etc..) from Malawi to Uganda. The cats I also tried =
to tranquilize with ACP but they got agitated, so I did not give them =
anything for their actual airplane trip. They survived a long and =
difficult and especially noisy trip from Lilongwe to Entebbe and =
afterwards up country to Fort Portal.=20
They are very happy now, and were meant to stay in Uganda. Due to =
circumstances I will have to move them again. Maybe to cold Europe =
unless I find a new African location for them very soon. Although they =
travel well at the end, I get terrible upset when I move them and got =
once a tip from a Finish Pediatrician in Malawi who said that he =
completely sedated his cats, while moving them from Finland to Malawi, =
with Valium IM. The cats slept for 24 hours and arrived healthy and =
happy at the other side. Can anyone advice me on transport of cats and =
dogs by plane, how to tranquilize them or sedate them and a dose. I =
think the main worry is the temperature and so to make sure they do not =
get under-cooled, I do not know how cold it get in the pressurized =
luggage compartment. Is any research done?, I know KLM is proud of his =
transport for pets, have they done any research?.
I might sound crazy but when you live a life of short contracts in =
Africa, you can not part each time with your pets. I did not mean to =
have so many of them but as vet, people tend to bring the lost and =
problem animals to you. I also believe that my children have to grow up =
with pets.
I hope to get some good tips and thank you in advance.
Eva Joris,
eduard.joris@planetinternet.be=20
=20
--Boundary_(ID_zm3paj9SP5mRNYuiTG98Ng)
Content-type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Dear All,
I have a =
question on=20
transport of cats and a dog, long distance (by car/plain/car) and I hope =
you all=20
do not find me cruel for doing so, but I am somehow very attached to my =
animals=20
and see that there are people who care as much about their pets as me =
but not=20
that many.
I have always worked in Africa as a vet and already =
years ago=20
I moved a cat from Kenya to The Gambia and afterwards to my parents in =
Belgium.=20
She is a fat and happy European cat now and does not have any trauma =
left from=20
this traveling. Two years ago I moved again household and moved 5 cats, =
a dog=20
and (and my son of 2, and much luggage overweight and a baby car seat =
etc..)=20
from Malawi to Uganda. The cats I also tried to tranquilize with ACP but =
they=20
got agitated, so I did not give them anything for their actual airplane =
trip.=20
They survived a long and difficult and especially noisy trip from =
Lilongwe to=20
Entebbe and afterwards up country to Fort Portal.
They are very =
happy now, and=20
were meant to stay in Uganda. Due to circumstances I will have to move =
them=20
again. Maybe to cold Europe unless I find a new African location for =
them very=20
soon. Although they travel well at the end, I get terrible upset when I =
move=20
them and got once a tip from a Finish Pediatrician in Malawi who said =
that he=20
completely sedated his cats, while moving them from Finland to Malawi, =
with=20
Valium IM. The cats slept for 24 hours and arrived healthy and =
happy at=20
the other side. Can anyone advice me on transport of cats and dogs by =
plane, how=20
to tranquilize them or sedate them and a dose. I think the main worry is =
the=20
temperature and so to make sure they do not get under-cooled, I do not =
know how=20
cold it get in the pressurized luggage compartment. Is any research =
done?, I=20
know KLM is proud of his transport for pets, have they done any=20
research?.
I might sound crazy but when you =
live a life of=20
short contracts in Africa, you can not part each time with your pets. I =
did not=20
mean to have so many of them but as vet, people tend to bring the lost =
and=20
problem animals to you. I also believe that my children have to grow up =
with=20
pets.
I hope to get=20
some good tips and thank you in advance.
Eva Joris,
eduard.joris@planetinterne=
t.be
--Boundary_(ID_zm3paj9SP5mRNYuiTG98Ng)--
From: IN%"hubrecht@ufaw.org.uk" 27-NOV-1997 06:04:18.12
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Postdoctoral Research Assistant Vacancy
University of Oxford
Academic-related Research Staff grade 1A:
Salary GBP15,159-22,785
Applications are invited for a postdoctoral research assistant to study
conditions experienced by primates during transport. During the first year
the project will involve developing an environmental monitor for use in
subsequent years to monitor primate consignments.
Applicants should have experience in developing instrumental systems and
will preferably have a biological background. Good interpersonal skills are
essential.
The post is funded by the Animal Procedures Committee from 1st March 1998
for one year in the first instance.
Informal enquiries can be made to Dr Robert Hubrecht, telephone +44 (0)1707
658202, fax +44(0)1707 649279. Written applications, including a curriculum
vitae and the names and addresses of two referees should be sent to Box No.
339, Room 501, New Scientist, Low Rise, Kings Reach Tower, Stamford Street,
London SE1 9LS.
Closing date for applications is 5th January 1998
The University is an equal opportunities Employer.
From: IN%"SBXNG@sbn3.phes.nottingham.ac.uk" "Nigel Goodwin" 27-NOV-1997 08:32:03.32
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"SBXNG@sbn3.phes.nottingham.ac.uk"
CC:
Subj: RE: Machiavellian Intelligence in Domestic Animals?
> So is one animal attempting to manipulate another's view of the world? Do
> they have a theory of mind? Are they engaging in tactical deception? (Am I
> completely cuckoo?) Or are we speciesist in that we apply these lofty
> concepts to neat primate tricks and play down equally neat cow tricks?
Interesting observations you describe. I've wondered about levels of
intelligence in the captive red deer I've been working on for three
years. I've always been wary of describing their behaviour in
anthropomorphic terms, but sometimes I can find no other way of doing
it.
We've often had to handle the deer, move them between paddocks, etc.,
which requires team work from farm workers and fellow students.
Basically, to remove a herd of deer from a paddock (dimensions
approx. 100m x 300m), a group of about five people have to enter
through the gate, go up to the opposite end of the paddock, then
spread out in a line and drive the animals down towards the gate.
But sometimes an animal gets awkward, and doesn't want to go. In
this case, she will stand still and watch us, apparently (here comes
the anthropomorphism...) assessing our movements, the width of the
gaps between us, the speed we're moving, and (dare I say this?)
actually working out which is the weakest point in our human chain,
i.e. the gap nearest the person least likely to resist the animal's
escape. Then she chooses her moment, and suddenly sprints through the
gap, invariably getting through before we can react.
I'm sure behavioural purists would take issue with some of this, but
when you've worked with the animals for some time, you get a "feel"
for their behaviour that you can't always describe in scientific
terms. I am convinced that there must be some fairly complex thought
process going on, coupled with the animal's ability to recognize
individual humans, and somehow to "know" when they're in contact with
someone who's new to the handling procedure and lacks confidence in
what they're doing.
I haven't dared to put any of this "outrageous" science into my PhD
thesis, but I'm sure it could make a paper of some sort....
"
~
P.S. Sorry this is not quite on the subject you raised, but I have
nevertheless described one animal manipulating another!
From: IN%"chris.gotman@sympatico.ca" 27-NOV-1997 10:15:30.60
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: how to get out of Applied-ethology
Dear Desperate-to-leave-this-list,
Seeing that people continue to clutter the list with commands meant
for the program that runs the applied-ethology list, let me try to state
how to unsubscribe in a clear manner.
Applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca is the address to which you send
email which you wish to be received by all subscribers to the list.
Applied-ethology-request@sask.usask.ca is the address to which you send
commands which you want the program to execute, such as unsubscribe.
So, simply put, send the message:
UNSUBSCRIBE applied-ethology
to this address:
applied-ethology-request@sask.usask.ca
Don't write anything else. No name, no signature file.
sincerely,
Chris Gotman
Canada
From: IN%"aa266@cleveland.Freenet.Edu" 27-NOV-1997 10:58:10.52
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: RE: Machiavellian Intelligence in Domestic Animals?
I do not understand the apparent wonder that prey animals have
devised schemes to escape predators that include moving toward the
predator(s) in a calculated manner. Whitetail deer do this quite
regularly, and my experience with range cattle supports your observation
quite well. Predators, commonly accepted as having higher levels of
intelligence, are even more adept at this behavior. Try cornering a
domestic cat or dog who really does not want to be caught.
Reply to message from SBXNG@sbn3.phes.nottingham.ac.uk of Thu, 27 Nov
>
>> So is one animal attempting to manipulate another's view of the world? Do
>> they have a theory of mind? Are they engaging in tactical deception? (Am I
>> completely cuckoo?) Or are we speciesist in that we apply these lofty
>> concepts to neat primate tricks and play down equally neat cow tricks?
>
>Interesting observations you describe. I've wondered about levels of
>intelligence in the captive red deer I've been working on for three
>years. I've always been wary of describing their behaviour in
>anthropomorphic terms, but sometimes I can find no other way of doing
>it.
>
>We've often had to handle the deer, move them between paddocks, etc.,
>which requires team work from farm workers and fellow students.
>Basically, to remove a herd of deer from a paddock (dimensions
>approx. 100m x 300m), a group of about five people have to enter
>through the gate, go up to the opposite end of the paddock, then
>spread out in a line and drive the animals down towards the gate.
>But sometimes an animal gets awkward, and doesn't want to go. In
>this case, she will stand still and watch us, apparently (here comes
>the anthropomorphism...) assessing our movements, the width of the
>gaps between us, the speed we're moving, and (dare I say this?)
>actually working out which is the weakest point in our human chain,
>i.e. the gap nearest the person least likely to resist the animal's
>escape. Then she chooses her moment, and suddenly sprints through the
>gap, invariably getting through before we can react.
>
>I'm sure behavioural purists would take issue with some of this, but
>when you've worked with the animals for some time, you get a "feel"
>for their behaviour that you can't always describe in scientific
>terms. I am convinced that there must be some fairly complex thought
>process going on, coupled with the animal's ability to recognize
>individual humans, and somehow to "know" when they're in contact with
>someone who's new to the handling procedure and lacks confidence in
>what they're doing.
>
>I haven't dared to put any of this "outrageous" science into my PhD
>thesis, but I'm sure it could make a paper of some sort....
>
>"
>~
>P.S. Sorry this is not quite on the subject you raised, but I have
>nevertheless described one animal manipulating another!
>
>
--
^ ^ DBC (aka D.B. Cameron, DVM)
< \ / > Animal Behavior Clinic
! ! Middleburg Hts., OH 44130
.. 440/826-0013 Fax: 234-3407
From: IN%"joseph.stookey@sask.usask.ca" 27-NOV-1997 13:00:45.09
To: IN%"aa266@cleveland.Freenet.Edu" "D.B. Cameron"
CC: IN%"STOOKEY@sask.usask.ca", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
Subj: RE: Machiavellian Intelligence in Domestic Animals?
On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, D.B. Cameron wrote:
>
> I do not understand the apparent wonder that prey animals have
> devised schemes to escape predators that include moving toward the
> predator(s) in a calculated manner. Whitetail deer do this quite
> regularly, and my experience with range cattle supports your observation
> quite well. Predators, commonly accepted as having higher levels of
> intelligence, are even more adept at this behavior. Try cornering a
> domestic cat or dog who really does not want to be caught.
>
> >
> >> So is one animal attempting to manipulate another's view of the world? Do
> >> they have a theory of mind? Are they engaging in tactical deception? (Am I
> >> completely cuckoo?) Or are we speciesist in that we apply these lofty
> >> concepts to neat primate tricks and play down equally neat cow tricks?
Let's not lose sight of the original question about evidence of
Machiavellian Intelligence in domestic animals. In other words do our
domestic animals "understand" what their conspecifics may be thinking and
do they engage in behaviour that attempts to change their conspecifics
thoughts? Using Jon Watts' example, Jon wondered if subordinate rams or
bulls were trying to make the dominant rams or bulls think the
subordinates were not interested in the females by acting like they were
grazing, when in fact they were trying to lure the females out of sight
from the dominant's view and sneak copulations, without suffering the
wrath of the dominant male. Are the subordinate rams and bulls trying to
make the dominant males "think" subordinates are not interested in mating?
Though prey species can certainly demonstrate "calculated" escapes as has
been suggested, the question remains, Do they demonstrate Machiavellian
Intelligence?
What would be just as interesting for me would be signs of Machiavellian
Intelligence in everyone trying to unsubscribe from applied-ethology. In
other words, I would not think you were DENSE if you simply sent your
e-mail to me
joseph.stookey@sask.usask.ca
and asked me for assistance in unsubscribing or sent your command message
directly to:
applied-ethology-REQUEST@sask.usask.ca
instead of sending your unsubscribe message to the entire applied-ethology
network. I realize I may begin to paint a picture of myself as a grouch,
but let's be honest; winter is coming very soon to Saskatchewan and I am
becoming a grouch! Maybe I should just unsubscribe myself and begin
preparations for a long winter!
Joe
====================
Joseph M. Stookey
Department of Herd Medicine and Theriogenology
Western College of Veterinary Medicine
University of Saskatchewan
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
S7N 5B4
From: IN%"rushenj@EM.AGR.CA" "Jeff Rushen" 27-NOV-1997 16:31:05.85
To: IN%"SBXNG@sbn3.phes.nottingham.ac.uk", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: RE: Machiavellian Intelligence in Domestic Animals? -REPONSE
>>> Nigel Goodwin 27/11/
09h30 >>> I've wondered about levels of
intelligence in the captive red deer I've been working on for three
years. I've always been wary of describing their behaviour in
anthropomorphic terms, but sometimes I can find no other way of doing
it....(snip)...But sometimes an animal gets awkward, and doesn't want to
go. In this case, she will stand still and watch us, apparently (here
comes the anthropomorphism...) assessing our movements, the width of
the gaps between us, the speed we're moving, and (dare I say this?)
actually working out which is the weakest point in our human chain, >>>
Nigel seems to have an exaggerated fear of anthropomorphism
(anthropomorphismophobia I think is the clinical term). Many behavioural
ecological models of prey animals' abilities to escape from predators
suggest that prey animals are quite effective at judging relative
distances, running speeds, distance to safety etc. and adjusting their
escape behaviours accordingly (e.g. Kramer and Bonenfant Animal
Behaviour 1997 54:289). I don't think this is Machiavellian intelligence so
much as just intelligence.
Jeff Rushen
From: IN%"petaipan@HK.Super.NET" 28-NOV-1997 02:29:52.59
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: RE: Long distance transport of cats and a dog.
>Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 11:16:19 +0800
>To:E JORIS
>From:petaipan@hk.super.net (Peter Grandison)
>Subject:Re: Long distance transport of cats and a dog.
>
>Eva
>
>As they're your animals, I guess you know them better than anyone else and
>you can make the best decision under the circumstances. I'm personally
>against using sedatives for transport of pets (as a general rule at least)
>but one significant factor to be aware of about air transport is that
>pressurization is normally to an amount equal to that of 8,0000 feet above
>sea level, and the sedator must add the cumulative effect of any drug
>reducing blood pressure (as your ACP or 24hr Valium would do) to the drop
>in blood pressure from the artificial pressure environment in the plane.
>Bears thinking (and worrying) about.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Pete G.
From: IN%"lboyle@DAIRY.TEAGASC.IE" "LAURA BOYLE" 28-NOV-1997 03:15:43.38
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Casualty animals
Dear all,
I don't know if this is really an ethology issue except that
it certainly constitues a serious welfare problem. The problem of
casualty animals, and especially sows, is one that really concerns me.
Since I started to work with pigs and have come into contact
with many commercial piggeries, I have been horrified to observe that
if a seriously injured sow is pregnant she is not humanely put out of
her misery until she has given birth and her litter can be fostered.
How sick it is that economics dictate that animals are allowed to
endure their pregnancy whilst seriously injured and suffering just
because they are carrying a valuable litter. Another gem of logic
that I have heard expressed is that calling out the vet for just one
animal is too expensive.
I wouldn't mind so much if all the recommendations that casualty
animals be provided with a bedded, isolated hospital area were
followed, but in my experience they are not. Even when the injured
animal finally gives birth she will often not be put down but sent off
on a lorry with other cull sows. Is this practice widespread?
Please tell me that it is not because whatever about disturbed
behaviour etc. there is no question that a sow with her dew claw
amputated (and for sows housed individually on semi-slatted floors,
this not altogether rare) is suffering and in considerable pain.
I am very interested in finding out what the situation regarding
casualty sows on commercial farms in other countries is. I have seen
sows in terrible states (and I hope I am not fobbed off as too
sentimental) but I believe they have a better chance of improving if
they are given deep bedding etc. I'd be interested in hearing more
about hospital areas. Should injured animals be kept separate from
one another? What other features should a hospital area have? I
reckon that part of the problem of casualty animals is that farmers
have no way of putting them down themselves, firearms
too dangerous etc.
Thanks in advance for your help,
Laura
Laura Boyle,
Pig Production Research Centre,
Moorepark,
Fermoy,
Co. Cork,
IRELAND.
telephone: (+353) 025-42389
fax: (+353) 025-42340
email: Lboyle@Dairy.Teagasc.ie
From: IN%"jnm13@cus.cam.ac.uk" 28-NOV-1997 04:05:27.21
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: RE: Casualty animals
Laura,
I'm afraid to say that the practice of transporting injured sows is indeed
fairly widespread. Even in the UK, with our perhaps heightened concern for
welfare, especially the welfare concerns regarding transportation of
livestock, I have seen sows being loaded that I would most definitely deem
"unfit" to travel. The reason for the situation is obviously one of
economics. A cull sow is worth anywhere between =A3100-250, depending on the
price per kilo - at present here it is very close to the bottom end of that
scale. However given the choice between receiving a hundred pounds or
bearing the costs of on-farm slaughter and disposal - most farmers will opt
for the former if they can get the sow on the lorry.
There are, of course, numerous bits of legislation regarding casualty
animals, but it comes down to the same old problem of enforcement. The
biggest problem is a clear definition of "unfit", which is a term a lot of
the law revolves around. To their credit, the Pig Veterinary Society
publish a very good booklet called "The Casualty Pig", which details
exactly how a casualty pig of every age should be dealt with according to
the nature of injury. This can be obtained from:
The Pig Veterinary Society,
Grove International,
Corston,
Malmesbury,
Wiltshire, SN16 0HL.
Tel: +44 1666 822967
=46ax: +44 1666 822009
The UK Ministry of Agriculture also publish a booklet (PB1381) called
"Guidance on the Transport of Casulaty Farm Animals" - detailing the
legislation involved in the UK.
MAFF Publications,
Admail 6000,
London, SW1A 2XX.
Tel 0645 556000 .....though I don't think this phone number can be
accessed from outside the UK.
Hope some of this info is of use.
Jeremy
****************************************************************************
Jeremy N. Marchant, BSc, PhD, CBiol, MIBiol,
Animal Welfare and Human-Animal Interactions Group
University of Cambridge,
Dept. of Clinical Veterinary Medicine,
Madingley Road, Cambridge, CB3 0ES, UK.
tel: +44 1223 330843 jnm13@cus.cam.ac.uk
fax: +44 1223 330886
****************************************************************************
From: IN%"msingh@giasbga.vsnl.net.in" "Mewa Singh" 28-NOV-1997 04:10:25.69
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: LTM International Symposium
FIFTH INTERNATIONAL SYMPOSIUM ON LION-TAILED MACAQUE
FIRST ANNOUCEMENT
The fifth International Symposium on the Lion-Tailed Macaque (Macaca
silenus) is being organized by the University of Mysore, Mysore, India.
The symposium dates are January 11-13, 1999. Papers may be prepared on any
aspects of lion-tailed macaque biology, ecology, behavior and conservation.
a special emphasis during the symposium will be on PROBLEM ORIENTED
COLLABORATIVE RESEARCH BETWEEN SCIENTISTS WORKING ON CAPTIVE AND WILD
LION-TAILED MACAQUES. The interested persons may write for the details of
the paper submission dates, Registration etc. to Dr. Mewa Singh, Professor
of Psychology, University of Mysore, Mysore - 570 006, India.
Telephone/Fax: Residence 91-821-514239: Office 91-821-518772
email msingh@giasbga.vsnl.net.in
From: IN%"lynfra@globalnet.co.uk" "Lynn Crook" 28-NOV-1997 14:24:12.67
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: RE: Machiavellian Intelligence in Domestic Animals?
>Just a thought... Has anyone else noticed anything of the sort with
>domestic animals and is it appropriate to interpret it in terms of social
>intelligence and manipulation of others' states of mind. Or do we have to
>blast every nifty idea with Lloyd Morgan"s bleedin' Canon?
>
>Jon
Hi Jon , I've been trying to think of any examples from my mixed breed dog
pack, and I'm finding it hard. Working on the basis that intelligence is a
product of experience to a great extent then, does a small dog who wants a
comfy pew which is taken up by a larger one and barks at the door in the
knowledge that the large dog will move to join in and then it can nip back
and get comfy, count?
The other example also involves beds, the submissive dog will roll over and
aggravate the dominant one so much that the dominant one moves but cannot
get cross because the other is on its back with its legs in the air!!
The majority of the time I have to think that they live and act very much
for the moment and are creatures of habit. My new rescue dog is very
manipulative and "streetwise" but I think she just learns very quickly and
will try all sorts of things to get her own way. She is certainly
manipulating my state of mind!!
On the same sort of theme, my vet asked me which of the dogs was cleverest
the other day--The ones who train quickest are not always the most
intelligent. The one who knows more tricks and does the best obedience is
NOT the cleverest--------the cleverest is the rescue who has had to survive
on her wits and is continuing to do so! The one who wieghs
up the possibility of a bit of chicken against the possibility of running
off---and makes a different decision each time according to the odds as she
sees them!
lynn and the pack.
From: IN%"msingh@giasbga.vsnl.net.in" "Mewa Singh" 28-NOV-1997 21:55:00.08
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Lynn and the pack
Lynn
From the behavior of your dogs, can we INFER that the dog is really
MANIPULATING other's mind? Look what happens in nature! The male koel
approaches the nest of the crow .. sits close and irritates the female crow
who is hatching her eggs .. the female crow threatnes, the male koel moves
a little away .. keeps harassing her .. slowly takes her away from the nest
.. does not go far until she starts chasing him. When the female crow is
quite far from her nest, the female koel (who was keeping a watch over the
ongoing drama from a nearby tree) stealthily enters the crow's nest ..
destroys some of her eggs and lays her own!
One more. Another bird redwattled lapwing makes her nest on the ground and
lays her eggs. Whenever she sees a raprtor or a predator (or even a
human), she flies away from her nest .... sits on the ground and opens the
wings as if she is hatching her eggs. Takes away the predator!!
The point is how can we infer whether an animal is manipulating the mind of
the other? I think there are ways to do it. The above examples only
indicate the presence of releasers and fixed actions. However, if we can
somehow infer that in this sort of communication, the signaller has the
grasp over the situation, we could start thinking that the signaller
probably KNOWS what it is doing. Once again, the context specificity of
signals is known throughout the animal world, but one thing we have always
missed while looking at animal communication is whether a signaller can
emit the signals VARIABLY under a similar or the same situation. If a
signaller emits the same or a very similar signals again and again, we
probably could not deny the theory of releasers and fixicity of actions.
But if the signaller is able to carry out a variety of behaviors under the
same situations at different times, we could infer that the signaller is
CONSCIOUS of what it is doing! That being the case, we could probably
infer that the animal is MANIPULATING the mind of the other. Let me point
my point more clearly :
We have always seen that an animal understands a context and interprets the
MEANING of a signal with reference to the context. Let us for a while try
to see ... does a responder respond in one way to a VARIETY (if such a
variety does exist) of signals emitted by the signaller under one kind of
condition? Sure then, we would be able to say the signaller is a
MANIPULATOR! Till then no escape from the "bleeding canon" (howmuchever I
myself would like such an escape!)
Mewa
Mewa Singh, Professor of Psychology and Animal Behavior, University of
Mysore, Mysore, India
From: IN%"furpersn@fred.net" "Nancy J Sheedy" 29-NOV-1997 11:15:46.05
To: IN%"wattsjon@duke.usask.ca" "Jon Watts", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Machiavellian Intelligence in Domestic Animals?
Just a dog trainer speaking, not an ethologist. But it does seem to me
that this ("manipulating") is just what we all do: evaluating the
situation, assessing the odds, and acting on the probabilities in terms of
what we want or need.
That is, I don't care what you're thinking, I just need to know what you're
going to do. But I have a simple mind. Non-Machiavellian. You bring up
the neatest things, Jon.
Nancy Sheedy
RIGHT START Training, Frederick, MD
"Tell me when I've got it right"
furpersn@fred.net
From: IN%"FoodFarm@aol.com" 30-NOV-1997 05:03:01.97
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Introduction
To all fellow subscribers,
A warm greeting from new-subscriber Norman Dunn.
I run a news agency (FoodFarm Communications) reporting out of northern
Europe.
As the title infers, the production and processing of food is my main
interest with about half my work centred on pig/pork, poultry/poultrymeat
developments.
Ethology in these two livestock sectors has increasingly interested me and
I've covered developments in the last decade by top German and Swiss
researchers in this field such as Dr Dirk Hesse, FAL, Germany (free
farrowing, low-labour straw-bedding systems for feeding pigs), Hans Schmid,
Zurich Zoo (free farrowing), and Dr Detlef Folsch, University of Kassel,
Germany (Voletage poultry housing and welfare-based poultry rations).
My thanks to subscriber Laura Boyle (Moorepark) for introducing me to
applied-ethology.
After only one week as subscriber, I can say I'm fascintated by the variety
of subjects in correspondence and look forward to learning a lot and maybe
being able to add my two cents' worth now and again from Ludwigshafen in
Germany.
Regards, Norman