From: IN%"robert.orr@bbsrc.ac.uk" "robert.orr" 16-NOV-1998 07:47:08.78
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC: IN%"mark.rutter@bbsrc.ac.uk", IN%"malcolm.gibb@bbsrc.ac.uk"
Subj: Feeding patterns in bovines
I'm afraid I don't subscribe to the group anymore (not enough time to wade
through all the dog and cat stuff). I do get relevant stuff passed on however,
and I feel I have to reply to the current debate about feeding patterns in
bovines.
1. I must first correct the representation of IGER's preference work made by
Tony Brereton. We did not find that animals eat more clover in the evening.
They eat more clover in the morning, then include more grass in the diet in the
evening.
2. Clarity would be gained by making a distinction between mechanism and
purpose. The spectral sensitivity hypothesis is of sufficient merit to proceed
to experimental test but it must be recognised that it is only a mechanism -
there is no advantage in fitness per se from doing this.
3. Looking firstly then at mechanism - can this really explain all the meal
patterns? I think not. It may explain how the animal manages to time the
start of its evening meal with no other obvious cues. However, it is not the
only explanation. The USDA work mentioned by Joe Stookey in earlier discussion
shows that animals can distinguish between hays cut at different times of day -
i.e they appear to be able to detect the change in sugar content. If this
holds for fresh forages then they don't need a cue to start grazing from light
quality - it is there in the feed. Even if light is involved - does the animal
need a cue to start grazing? Maybe all that is needed is the sunset light
intensity cue to shut down the evening meal and the rest of the pattern is
entrained. None of this explains the pattern earlier in the day or the shift to
some night grazing as photoperiod reduces. The animal starts the day
relatively empty but does not attempt to 'fill up' at 'breakfast' (do we
really need these anthropomorphisms?) - why? If the animal is trying to
maximise its daylight grazing time why doesn't it just get on with it at that
point? Possibly because it's foraging optimally by waiting to eat
more-digestible material in the evening? Another possible mechanism we have
speculated about is the difficulty of prehension of herbage in the morning
while wet with dew. We know that bite mass and intake rate are much higher in
the evening. This suggests some physical constraint may be operating. (Yes I
know the grass is always wet in Ireland!) None of the discussion has mentioned
ruminating - I don't think we can understand the meal patterns without
considering this.
4. So what about purpose? We have considered these possibilities:
a) The animals are foraging optimally by eating more-digestible material in the
evening (more water soluble carbohydrate in grass; more starch in white
clover).
b) They don't want to graze at night as an anti-predator strategy.
Therefore they fill up in the evening so as to be able to maintain the rumen
flora during the long enforced overnight fast. This also offers a reason for
switching preference to grass in the evening - it is more slowly digested and
hence has a longer residence time and thus maintains rumen flora.
5. Tony Brereton mentioned that his original brief was to increase intake in
rotational grazing. We have carried out a trial in which we offered dairy cows
in a daily strip grazing system their new allocation of herbage either in the
morning or the afternoon. Those offered new herbage in the afternoon consumed
most of their daily intake in the evening (16 out of 18 kg DM) while those
offered new herbage in the morning ate only 12 kg immediately and still waited
until evening to eat the remaining 6 kg. The daily DM intake was the same for
both groups. However, by the end of the 10-week trial the 'evening' animals had
5% higher milk yields suggesting that they were able to obtain a better diet by
eating in this way.
6. Finally let me be honest - most of this is speculation, we need to stop
talking and start designing the experiments to test these hypotheses.
Dr Andrew J. Rook
Group Leader - Grazing Ecology and Behaviour
Institute of Grassland and Environmental Research
North Wyke
Okehampton
Devon
EX20 2SB
UK
Tel: +44 1837 82558 Ext 153
Fax: +44 1837 82139
From: IN%"abrereton@tinet.ie" 16-NOV-1998 10:20:37.28
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology"
CC:
Subj: cows, grazing
Lindsay matthews,AgResearch,NZ replied
I've followed the discussion with interest. How do you feel now about the
possiblity of increasing pasture intake of cows from either of the two
methods you describe? Do you think there's a possiblity from the
behavioural
perspective - which often revolves around making pasture more palatable?
I'm sure many nutrionists in NZ (if there's any left) would argue that it's
possible to suppress intake (below some "normal" level) by offering too
little pasture of the appropriate architecture, or by offering unpalatble
pasture, but that it'd be difficult to greatly incr intake.
BTW, I'm a behaviourist, and am fascinated by your topic.
==============================================
Dear Lindsay
The pasture work (in co-operation with Queen's Univ., Belfast. Imelda Casey
post-grad) has not yielded any surprises or suggested easy options for
increased intake.The work concentrated on sward structure effects during
the bout (instantaneous rather then daily intake). Herbage density and
sward height are both important. A tall sward allows a deeper bite, a dense
sward yields a heavier bite. But, as you know, height and density are
inversely related. That work has moved on to investigate the dynamics of
leaf and tiller growth to identify the controls of the relationship between
height and density.(some of this is in "Pasture Ecology & Animal Intake
1998. ISBN 1 901138 23 2).
The animal behaviour work suggests that total daily intake is controlled by
the animal. In my original message I suggested that 3 controls operate. One
of these may be related to a daily demand that is set by the size and
productivity of the animal. If that is the case then manipulation of sward
structure or the other controls (light quality, bout feeding) that all
affect instantaneous intake rate, may be irrelevant. In summary, it seems
to me that if you want greater intake rates then buy a bigger animal
(which, I think, is the current trend).
Total annual herbage intake is another matter - if we could extend the
herbage growing season.
Anthony
Dr. A. J. Brereton
23 Richmond Hill, Cork
Mary Linnane
Moorepark Research Centre, Fermoy, Co.Cork.
From: IN%"ivryhavn@riverview.net" "Sheree Walters" 16-NOV-1998 13:29:24.37
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Animal Minds - Black Hole?
Dear John and all,
I would like to reply to Jon's last message asking (among other things):
"Are animal minds really like the insides of black holes, that can never be
properly observed from outside? Or do we just have to think real hard
about how to do it? Or maybe spend enormous amounts of money and human
effort, to explore this inner space?"
I have some theories and suggestions on this....
I do not find it easy to get inside the minds of some of the animals of
average intelligence like say a dog, a horse a bird, a rat... I know how
to work with these types of animals with various methods, clicker training,
positive reinforcement, etc.. I tend to know what they are up to. I also
see my daughter show her horse and anticipate him and encourage him to
perform for her. But they are all operating on a level different from ours
as you know...But then there are the elephants....
There are 2 African elephants living with us on our farm and I have been
with the female for 10 years. I am still amazed at how intelligent they
are. People ask me if they are our pets and I answer that they live with
us. Technically we own them but I consider them more like my children
related to intelligence. I would not say I owned my child. I am not going
to get anthropmorphic on you at this point.. I say they are like children
becuse they are at a level intelligence-wise of say an 8 to 10 year old.
I think that people who are working with dolphins and whales and apes
choose them because they are so smart...It seems to me easier to get
"inside" the mind of a more intelligent species. I suggest that more
studies should be done connected with elephants to answer come of the
questions you have raised. They use there trunks like and arm and a hand.
They have similar social structure to humans. I could go on....my point is
that since they have similarities already to us that we can relate to
perhaps the primates, they would be a good species to work with.
Part of the problem with studying elephants is that in the wild they do not
let you that close, nor do they generally accept a human as part of their
herd so the interaction is not as available. It is more observation. At a
most zoos the type of observing that is done or allowed is mostly hands off
with little or know interaction between the elephants and the public (for
safety reasons , I realize) so the commen perception is that they are this
big dumb, mute creature...very far from the truth... There are articles
coming out now that suggest perhaps they mioght be sentient beings. There
are also updated and new books that place elephants among the top four
species regarding intelligence after humans,,,, certain primates, then
dolphins, whales and elephants. It would appear know one yet knows which
order for the last 3.
For many years people thought (and some still do) that African Elephants
were not trainable or easily handled. First, many African people hold
elephants in high regard and out of respect for their power and place on
the earth (plsu there size), somewhat similar to the tpe of reverrance held
for certain animals in the native Amerrican Cultures, did not work with
them. The Asian peoples have there own beliefs that also involve religion
but obviously at some point decided to work with the animals anyway
(logging etc..) So very few people worked with Africans until Asians became
less available.
Also the old school of elephant training involved abuse (not unlike they
way some children were reared until beatings with a belt became
unacceptable sadly there are still parents and animal trainers who are
abusive...). An African elephant will not tolerate this abuse. It will
either retaliate (hurt or kill the offender) or run. The Asian elephant
will take more of this (and wait to pay back the abuser later...). So the
way elephants are trained has begun to change...The new school involves
positive (reward) reinforcement, negative reinforcement etc...Anyway we
always say that "you have to be smarter than the elephant".
Jon you said "Is there a real philosophical barrier here, or do we just
lack the wit to circumvent it?"
So by my comment somewhat similar to yours I mean there are a lot people
out there without a lot of commmen sense, intelligence or regard for
animals and there welfare that are working with elephants (and other
animals). They give elephant handlers and trainers a bad name. But of
course the sensationism that the Press thrives oon perpetuates this. When
people ask me if all elephants are dangerous or neurotic or if all animals
trainers are abusive. I ask them if "all white males named Jeffrey are
canibals".
I realize I have gotten off the track of your message a little but I feel
that some understanding of elephants is needed before I say the folowing:
I have the privilege of living with these two elephants, very closely. The
have accepted me as part of their herd, so to speak. I am not going to
claim I can read their minds, or that they can read mine. Perhaps either or
both of htose has some truth in it..
I do know that because they accept me and my husband, family etc.. as part
of their "family" We have a window into their lives that is releatively
rare. There are probably some other people this close to their elephants
particularly in the private sector where there are 24 hour days at the
facility. I hope to continue in my observations.I also hope to, through
these mailing lists, the internet (Ivory Haven's Web Page) and other people
I meet, to link up with scientists who have the technical knowledge about
studing a species who will be willing to work with me to prove some of the
things you are asking. To prove scientifically their intelligence, how they
think, how they communicate infrasonically (I have my own observations on
that)how they vocalize, communicate etc..etc...
I do not have the degree in biology or ethology to be able to write a paper
up to the standard of the scientific community. I do not know the
appropriate terms in some cases, nor the scientific protocols for proving
or disproving something...
So I throw this out there once again...
I am available to colaborate with someone who wishes to work on there
thesis or some other paper regarding of elephants. There technical
expertise combines with our years of experience and observations. ( My
husband has been working with elephants since 1969).
I am sure others must ahve noted this before but my thinking is that
perhaps we should start looking for the answers to what goes on inside an
animals mind by starting with species that have similar intelligence to
ours. Then take what we have learned and perrhaps we will find some
answers and methods which will work on the other species as well.
Jon, you said
" What standards of evidence would we accept concerning other animals'
experiences? What are the most promising approaches (neuroscience,
communication studies....) and can we envisage
new ones that would give a substantial lead (virtual reality,
computer-simulated animats, artificial intelligence)? "
I would love to work on a study with elephants to help answer some of these
questions. In fact I am working with Dr. Marthe Kiley-Worthington of Dept.
of Psychology, Washington Singer Labs at the University of Exeter in the UK
on some phsychology and animal behavior related subjects. Also with Dr.
Hezekial Shoshani a known elephant expert who has published and worked on
several books about elephants (Majestic Creatures of the Wild, Elephants,
the Deciding Decade to name a few)..
There is always room for more....I think that the wonder of it all is what
leads to scientific studies....Therefore it should not exclude those who
are not scientists....
Jon also said:
"Are animal minds really like the insides of black holes, that can never be
properly observed from outside? Or do we just have to think real hard
about how to do it? Or maybe spend enormous amounts of money and human
effort, to explore this inner space?"
I say, never say never too... lets explore this inner space from a variety
of angles...
Thanks so much for your time..
Regards,
Sheree Walters
<") ,-''/^ ^`\ ~,~~''``^-..
(.) , ) \ `\
(`) . o ) ) )\
(`\/ (' / .) \
`-//..^ \__/ ( ) \
// \ ( ,) /\
/ `/( /^~~--~~~^`( ) '|
/ | ( .) ( / ( .)
/-.\ /-.| /-.| /-.|
(nn ) (nn ) (nn ) (nn )
Ivory Haven - Laura the Elephant's House on the Web:
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/2248 http://www.newaygo.com/MI-Living
ICQ WorldWide Pager for Sheree at: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/2602279
From: IN%"mlos@ciudad.com.ar" "Mario Lopez Oliva" 16-NOV-1998 16:27:27.69
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC: IN%"imiuvezo@imiucca.csi.unimi.it" "Istituto di Zootecnica Veterinaria Italia", IN%"horsesci@mail.usyd.edu.au", IN%"HORSEDOCS@aol.com" "HORSE DOCS", IN%"Hanover.Veterinary.Clinic@VALLEY.NET" "Hanover Veterinary Clinic", IN%"edsaya@netline.net.ar", I
Subj:
Este forum tiene la finalidad de darle a todos los especialistas en equinos
del mundo, un lugar donde poder hacer preguntas sobre casos
clínicos y enviar respuestas, así como también de poner a disposición de
todos los colegas un lugar de discusión y análisis de todos los temas
relacionados con nuestra especialidad y profesión.
El aporte de todos es fundamental para poder crecer y enriquecernos.
En este mail se describe la forma de suscribirse al forum de la A.A.V.E
(Asociación Argentina de Veterinaria Equina ) que funciona con el server de
la Facultad de Veterinaria de la Universidad de Buenos Aires -ARGENTINA.
Suscripción
Enviar e-mail dirigido a MDaemon@fvet.uba.ar, dejar vacío el Título o
Subject.
En la primer línea del cuerpo del mensaje poner SUBSCRIBE aave
Luego de esto ya comenzarán a recibir los mensajes, y para enviar ustedes
mismos sus preguntas , respuestas o inquietudes deberán hacerlo al e-mail
aave@fvet.uba.ar
Dr Mario Lopez Oliva
Tel 54-1-7849498
mlos@ciudad.com.ar
ICQ# 6596304
From: IN%"Emily.Patterson-Kane@vuw.ac.nz" "Emily Patterson-Kane" 16-NOV-1998 17:59:21.96
To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: RE: raptors
At 11:36 AM 15/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
> My prof. has asked me to look at the effect that a predator's presence has on
>the amount of time squirrels will spend feeding in a certain area. The answer
>seems clear to me already, but I'm sure he wouldn't ask me to do this if I
>wasn't going to learn something!
> I think I'm going to try using a model and playing back a call, and see which
>method works best.
Here is one possible approach... I think that the experiment should be
designed so that the best analysis can be used. Yes the predator probably
scares of the squirrels, but how much? I would suggest using two areas and
presenting a moving raptor stimulus on a VI basis. The moving model/picture
would appears contingent on the squirrel entering th patch and noit be
available for close inspection... Actually this might be quite difficult to
do - a call would be better... but basically I'm pushing for a matching law
based analysis of how much the animals avoid the patch as predation
increases (Baum, 1974, Davison & McCarthy)
From: IN%"mplonsky@uwsp.edu" "Plonsky, Mark" 16-NOV-1998 22:29:02.57
To:
CC:
Subj: FW: dog training study?
Folks,
Can anyone help with this Jason's request (please see appended message)?
Take care,
Dr. P
Dog Training Site - http://www.uwsp.edu/acad/psych/dog/dog.htm
----- Mark Plonsky, Ph.D. 715-346-3961 wk -----
----- Psychology Dept. 715-346-2778 fx -----
----- University of Wisconsin 715-344-0023 hm -----
----- Stevens Point, WI 54481 mplonsky@uwsp.edu -----
----- http://www.uwsp.edu/acad/psych/mphome.htm -----
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JASON T. MAJOR [mailto:jmajor@ONLINE.EMICH.EDU]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 2:54 PM
> To: Plonsky, Mark
> Subject: dog training study?
>
> Dr. P
>
> My name is Jason Major, and I am currently working on my Master's degree
> in experimental psychology at Eastern Michigan University. I have been
> made aware of a study conducted in London, Ontario. I am sketchy
> regarding the details. Basically researchers taught various "tricks" to
> animals in a shelter and this resulted in an increase in the adoption
> rate. I was wondering if you had heard of this study and if you could
> possibly provide a source, so as I could find it. If you have this
> information and could provide me with it, I would greatly appreciate it.
> Furthermore, if you have any information regarding how training effects
> pet adoption rates in animal shelters please let me know.
>
> Thank You
> Jason T. Major
From: IN%"johnwade@ethological.com" "John Wade" 16-NOV-1998 23:06:40.36
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Dog training study
As far as I know I'm the only person doing any behavioural work in London's
shelter. The reference is to a proposed project and hasn't been
implemented yet. If it is it may or may not be out of London. I haven't
decided yet.
John Wade
P.S. How are you doing Mark?
At 10:28 PM 11/16/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Folks,
>
>Can anyone help with this Jason's request (please see appended message)?
>
>Take care,
>Dr. P
>Dog Training Site - http://www.uwsp.edu/acad/psych/dog/dog.htm
>----- Mark Plonsky, Ph.D. 715-346-3961 wk -----
>----- Psychology Dept. 715-346-2778 fx -----
>----- University of Wisconsin 715-344-0023 hm -----
>----- Stevens Point, WI 54481 mplonsky@uwsp.edu -----
>----- http://www.uwsp.edu/acad/psych/mphome.htm -----
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: JASON T. MAJOR [mailto:jmajor@ONLINE.EMICH.EDU]
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 2:54 PM
>> To: Plonsky, Mark
>> Subject: dog training study?
>>=20
>> Dr. P
>>=20
>> My name is Jason Major, and I am currently working on my Master's degree
>> in experimental psychology at Eastern Michigan University. I have been
>> made aware of a study conducted in London, Ontario. I am sketchy
>> regarding the details. Basically researchers taught various "tricks" to
>> animals in a shelter and this resulted in an increase in the adoption
>> rate. I was wondering if you had heard of this study and if you could
>> possibly provide a source, so as I could find it. If you have this
>> information and could provide me with it, I would greatly appreciate it.
>> Furthermore, if you have any information regarding how training effects
>> pet adoption rates in animal shelters please let me know.
>>=20
>> Thank You
>> Jason T. Major
>=20
Copyright =A9 1998 by John Wade. All rights reserved.
ETHOLOGICAL=99 INC.
John Wade
9 Commissioners Road East
Suite1004
London,Ontario
N6C 5Z7
johnwade@ethological.com
http://www.ethological.com
Business (London & Area) 519-457-9779
Toll Free (North America) 888-695-9283
Fax 519-649-2230 =20
From: IN%"marcvdh@stat.fmv.ulg.ac.be" "Marc Vandenheede" 17-NOV-1998 07:51:57.09
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: welfare of rabbits
Dear all,
I would like to begin a study on the effects of rearing conditions on the
evolution of a disease in rabbits.
Is there any person who works on welfare of rabbits, and who could give me
some informations on rearing conditions of these animals, which could
influence their welfare?
Thank you,
From: IN%"marcvdh@stat.fmv.ulg.ac.be" "Marc Vandenheede" 17-NOV-1998 08:15:17.17
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: welfare of rabbits
Dear all,
I would like to begin a study on the effects of rearing conditions on the
evolution of a disease in rabbits.
Is there any person who works on welfare of rabbits, and who could give me
some informations on rearing conditions of these animals, which could
influence their welfare?
Thank you,
Marc Vandenheede
Universit=E9 de Li=E8ge
Facult=E9 de M=E9decine V=E9t=E9rinaire
Service d'Hygi=E8ne et Bioclimatologie
Bd de Colonster, B=E2t. B43
4000 Li=E8ge
Belgium
t=E9l.: 32/(0)4/366.41.48
fax.: 32/(0)4/366.41.22
email: marcvdh@stat.fmv.ulg.ac.be
From: IN%"abrereton@tinet.ie" 17-NOV-1998 09:02:06.13
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology"
CC:
Subj: feeding patterns in bovines
I need to apologise to Andrew Rook for misquoting the work done at IGER. I
am embarassed.
I haven't looked for the dictionary meaning of "speculation" but using the
word in the common sense I think it is appropriate, after making one's
observations, to speculate during the construction of the hypothesis that
must finally be tested by experiment. We are doing that.
I repeat what I said in reply to Joe Stookey, that I don't dismiss the role
of evening quality. There is recent data from IGER( and I hope I remember
this correctly) that indicates that grazing activity increases during each
day which fits in well. I have suggested that the diurnal changes in
quality described might not be universal and for that reason I take the
position that I have explained. But I haven't any data on this so I keep an
open mind.
I used "breakfast" and "dinner" as a gesture to the people who purvey "all
the cat and dog stuff". These were not anthropomorpisms though I may have
been patronising. You come close to it when you suggest that the animal is
"waiting to eat more digestible material in the evening". I quess we could
say this would be the result of a learned behaviour and animals here could
have long memories.
It seems to me that a mechanism that initiates the days grazing at dawn
would have significance as a means of minimising activity in darkness. It
does not follow that that the animal should graze exclusively in daylight.
Fitness is not achieved by uniform perfection in every inherited feature.
An animal that took its days feed in one shot would be a strange consruct.
I have not found anything in the literature to support my suggestion that
bovines respond to light quality. One big reason for putting my original
message out was to see what response the suggestion would generate. Your
response encourages me.
I have been looking at a fairly large data set, our own and other published
material. The 3 features of the daily feeding pattern that I described
appear to hold for dairy cows, for non-milking heifers and for animals
living in semi-feral conditions in the absence of normal livestock farm
management routines.
A few years ago colleagues of yours said that "despite the intensity of
research and modelling of intake and digestion in domestic livestock, there
has been little progress in providing a mechanistic account of the factors
controlling grazing time, even though this is essential to progress from an
understanding of instantaneous intake rate to understanding daily intake.
The lack of progress may be because grazing time and daily intake are not
subject, in many cases, to purely physical constraints, but may be the
consequence of evolved behaviour. It would not be consistent with
maximising fitness, for example, to eat without a behavioural
limit."(Parsons et al 1994. Functional Ecology). That is the context in
which I submitted my original message.
Finally, As far as I can see our domestic bovines do not display any
patterns of behaviour related to seasonal or lunar cycles. The patterns
appear to be circadian and in that case it would not be surprising to find
that a light cue such as I have suggested was present as a means of
measuring the day.
Anthony
PS. I have a vague suspicion that my misquote may have been based on a
half-remembered "what if" conversation late at night in a pub deep in the
Devonshire countryside.
Dr. A. J. Brereton
23 Richmond Hill, Cork, Ireland
Phone +353 21 551866
From: IN%"Beat.Wechsler@fat.admin.ch" "Beat Wechsler" 17-NOV-1998 09:24:37.34
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Swiss animal welfare legislation
An English version of the
Swiss Federal Act on Animal Protection of March 9, 1978
(State as per July 1, 1995)
and the
Swiss Animal Protection Ordinance of May 27, 1981
(State as per November 1, 1998)
is now available in the Internet: http://www.admin.ch/bvet
These documents are also available in German, French and Italian.
If you know of any other web sites providing information on national or reg=
ional (e.g. =
EU) animal welfare legislation, please let me know. I will gather such info=
rmation =
and forward it to the Applied-ethology-network.
Best regards
Beat Wechsler
---------------------------------------------------------------
Beat Wechsler
Swiss Federal Veterinary Office =
Centre for proper housing of ruminants and pigs
CH-8356 Taenikon - Switzerland
SMTP: Beat.Wechsler@fat.admin.ch =
X.400: G=3DBeat;S=3DWechsler;O=3Dfat;A=3Dadmin;C=3Dch
FAX: ++41 52 365 11 90 =
Phone: ++41 52 368 31 31
From: IN%"arl3342@montana.com" "peggy shunick" 17-NOV-1998 09:43:59.45
To: IN%"rr25@cus.cam.ac.uk" "R. Rodd", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: RE: training methods
Rosemary,
Thank you for informing us about this sensitive situation. It seems very
timely in that I have just returned from the annual convention of the APDT
(Association of Pet Dog Trainers), and this is a "hot topic" amongst
trainers in the US. A similar incident of punishment here has fueled the
discussion and has caused the American Humane Association (AHA) to form a
task force to formulate humane training standards. They had their third or
fourth (I think) work session following APDT. I'd be happy to visit further
with you to supply information on either APDT--which stresses positive
methods for pet dog training--or the AHA project. I believe other members
of the ethology list are out there listening and will also respond to you
as soon as they recover from a wonderfully fun-filled and inspiring dog
training conference.
Peggy
At 10:28 AM 11/11/98 +0000, R. Rodd wrote:
>There has recently been a scandal in the UK about methods used at
>one police dog training kennel. Among other practices, dogs were routinely
>punished for showing aggression towards their handlers by suspending them
>off the ground by their check chains and kicking them - to the point of
>killing one dog.
>
>Judging from the newspaper reports this wasn't exactly a case of cruel
>training methods being used to make the dogs work, but more that the
>instructors had bizarre beliefs about the need to use enormously severe
>punishment to establish the dominance of the handlers over their dogs.
>
>The response of most dog trainers who were interviewed about the case
>seems to be that training should be by reward only. Does anyone have any
>thoughts on this? It seems worrying that no-one seems able to envisage
>MODERATE boundary-setting punishment of the kind which other social
>animals use successfully when they interact with each other.
>
>----------------------------------------
>Rosemary Rodd
>Literary & Linguistic Computing Centre
>Sidgwick Avenue, Cambridge CB3 9DA 01223 335029
>
>
Margaret A. (Peggy) Shunick, BA, BA, MS (Animals and Public Policy)
PO Box 844
Arlee MT 59821-0844
USA
406-726-3342
arl3342@montana.com
From: IN%"matilda.mitchell@octoberfilms.co.uk" "Matilda Mitchell" 17-NOV-1998 13:00:52.80
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca'"
CC:
Subj: FW: URGENT - TV Documentary on Taming Animals
> I work for October Films, a television production company based in
> London, England. I am currently carrying out research for a
> television documentary series on taming animals - with the emphasis on
> science.
>
> I would urgently like to talk to anyone who is doing research in this
> field. Is anyone scanning the brains of animals to see why some
> animals can be more easily tamed or trained than others? Is this a
> neurological phenomenon or a psychological one? We are looking into
> everything from lions to dogs to horses. Any suggestions? It would
> be great to speak with anyone working in this field at all.
>
> Please contact me either via Email
> (matilda.mitchell@octoberfilms.co.uk) or give me a call on +44 (171)
> 916 7198 and ask for Matilda Mitchell.
>
> I look forward to hearing from you.
>
From: IN%"dreyn@sirius.com" 18-NOV-1998 00:32:03.17
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied-Ethology"
CC:
Subj: RE: Animal Minds
Sheree Walters wrote...
>I would like to reply to Jon's last message asking among other things
>"Are animal minds really like the insides of black holes (snip)
Sheree...
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences.
>I do not find it easy to get inside the minds of some of the animals of average intelligence like say a dog, a horse a bird, a rat.
>I know how to work with these types of animals with various methods, >clicker training, positive reinforcement, etc.. I tend to know what >they are up to....
>But then there are the elephants....
It would seem the greatest bridge to gaining access to "the secrets"
of any one species is having a deep abiding love and respect for that
type of animal, as you obviously do with your elephants.
This in itself seems to be the number one key to opening doors. When
we have this then we are more able to use the wonderful tools such as
the ones science provides to get closer to an understanding of an
animal's "worldview".
Kinda basic I know,
but damn I love how you love those elephants!
Best regards and good luck w/ the research
Donna Reynolds
From: IN%"marithe@mandic.com.br" "maria thereza" 19-NOV-1998 15:54:39.13
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: ABS adress
Please, anyone knows the ABS's adress for Latin America ?=20
Thanks
=09
Maria Thereza C G do Amaral
homeopata veterin=E1ria - veterinarian homeopatician
S=E3o Paulo - Brasil
marithe@mandic.com.br
http://pessoal.mandic.com.br/marithe/mth33.htm
From: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol" 19-NOV-1998 20:29:56.35
To: IN%"abrereton@tinet.ie" "'abrereton@tinet.ie'", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology"
CC:
Subj: RE: feeding patterns in bovines
Grazing behaviour of cattle, at least here in the tropics and sub-tropics,
is highly correlated to the thermal environment. Cattle here do most of
their grazing in the cool part of the diurnal cycle i.e. night, early
morning and evening. For the rest of the day they 'camp' (not necessarily
in the shade - Bos indicus animals) and ruminate. This same pattern is seen
for feedlot cattle too, and may be more important to them with high energy
diets and increasing the thermal load on them.
Carol Petherick
Tropical Beef Centre
Rockhampton
Queensland
Australia
> -----Original Message-----
> From: brereton [SMTP:abrereton@tinet.ie]
> Sent: Saturday, 14 November 1998 3:54
> To: applied-ethology
> Subject: feeding patterns in bovines
>
> Robin Walker's reply is interesting but he tells how the instinctive
> behaviour of oxen has influenced human behaviour. Our interest is in the
> other direction - what is controlling the instinctive behaviour of the
> animal?
>
> Nora Lewis's reply raises another question. What is the survival value of
> the behaviour we described? If we assume that grazing in the dark is not a
> good idea because individuals are exposed to predation and/or because the
> individual lying down and the herd forming a close group can conserve
> energy during cold nights then a mechanism that initiates grazing at first
> light is a good idea. Even if total grazing time is 10 hours and daylight
> is only 7 hours it still means that the daylight perod is used fully. I
> would add that if the stimulus to begin grazing at dawn is related to the
> spectral quality of light than the same stimulus would operate at dusk.
> The
> second stimulus would reinforce the effect of the dawn by bringing grazing
> to an earlier close each day. Our preoccupation with the spectral quality
> of light arises from the observation that the association with sunrise and
> sunset is very close. A mechanism depending on some aspect of light
> intensity would not give rise to this close association here because
> day-to-day variations in cloud cover are very great.
>
> It is commonly asserted that bovines are day-grazers. Our data suggests to
> us that this is not so inthe sense that grazing is restricted exclusively
> to daylight hours but the controls that operate tend to favour day-light
> grazing.
>
> Anthony
>
>
> Dr. A. J. Brereton
> 23 Richmond Hill, Cork, Ireland
> Phone +353 21 551866
From: IN%"prato@imiucca.csi.unimi.it" 20-NOV-1998 09:44:59.01
To: IN%"marcor@mednuc.hsr.it", IN%"e058gf01@area.ba.cnr.it", IN%"pss01dc@gold.ac.uk", IN%"rmassa@alpha.disat.unimi.it", IN%"mcgrew@msmail.muohio.edu", IN%"Marco.Colombetti@polimi.it", IN%"poli@imiucca.csi.unimi.it", IN%"renzi@axcasp.caspur.it", IN%"lupoar@
CC:
Subj: chimpanzees petition
Note by Verena Winiwarter, Vienna:
Molecular evidence suggests that humans are 98.4% identical to
BOTH chimpanzees and bonobos. Hope this helps your decision!
xxxxxxxxxSubject: Petition to save 143 chimpanzeesxxxxxxxxxx
Please keep this petition rolling. Do not reply to the person you
received it from.
Please sign at the bottom and forward to others to sign.
If you prefer not to sign please send to the e-mail address:
valeriec@scs.unr.edu Thanks.
This petition is being passed around the Internet. Please add your
name to it so that 143 chimpanzees can be placed in retirement
sanctuaries.
NOTE: It is preferable that you SELECT the entirety of this letter
and then COPY it into a new outgoing message rather than simply
forwarding it.
This is being forwarded to several people at once to add their names
to the petition. It won't matter if many people receive the same
list as the names are being managed.
This petition is for people who would like to see the Air Force
place 143 chimpanzees in retirement sanctuaries.
If you DO NOT WISH TO FORWARD IT, please don't kill it. -
Rather send it to the email address listed here:
valeriec@scs.unr.edu >
The Air Force owns 143 chimpanzees who are members or
descendants of the original colony of chimpanzees used in space exploration=
.
The chimpanzees are currently leased to The Coulston Foundation,
a biomedical research facility where many questionable chimpanzee
deaths have occurred.
The Coulston Foundation is currently under investigation by the
United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) for violations of the
Animal Welfare Act (AWA).
The Air Force is planning to relinquish ownership of the
chimpanzees and is now considering bids from interested parties.
Among the bidders are several groups who want to place the
chimpanzees in retirement sanctuaries where they can live out the
rest of their lives in peace.
One such group is the Institute for Captive Chimpanzee Care which
has Dr.Jane Goodall on its Board of Directors.
The Coulston Foundation has also bid on the chimpanzees, despite
their negligent management record.
We, the undersigned, ask the Air Force to give all 143 chimpanzees
to groups who will place them in retirement, resocialise them, and
provide them with enriched environments.
Please add your name to this list and forward it to friends if you
believe in what it stands for.
This list will be forwarded to:
the President of the United States,
the Vice President of the United States,
Senate and House leaders,
and the Pentagon.
It will be appreciated if every 50th person on the list could
forward it to me as well. So, if you happen to be the 50th, 100th,
150th, 200th,250th, etc. signer of this petition, please forward a
copy to me:
valeriec@scs.unr.edu mailto:valeriec@scs.unr.edu
This way we can keep track of the lists and organize them.
=46orward this to everyone you know, and help us to save the Air
=46orce chimpanzees!
Thank you!
1. Valerie J. Chalcraft Ellensburg, WA
2. Carol Rosenthal - Los Angeles, CA
3. Arlene Brahm Milton, Ma
4. Michael A. Huffman, Inuyama JAPAN
5. Robin Dunbar, University of Liverpool,England
6. Richard Byrne, University of St Andrews,Scotland
7. Barbara Fruth, Max-Planck-Institut Seewiesen,Germany
8. Ronald Noe, Max-Planck-Institut Seewiesen,Germany
9. Joanna Fietz, DPZ Goettingen, Germany
10. Stefanie Heiduck, DPZ Goettingen,Germany
11. Julia Ostner, Deutsches Primatenzentrum Goettingen, Germany
12. Tobias Deschner, MPI for Evolutionary Anthropology, Germany
13. Cathy Crockford, MPI for Evolutionary Anthropology, Germany
14. Mike Tomasello, MPI for Evolutionary Anthropology, Germany
15. Josep Call, University of Liverpool,England
16. Malinda Carpenter, University of Liverpool,England
17. Suzanne Lapham Carpenter, Gainesville Florida
18. Caren Gorenberg, Gainesville, Florida
19. Laura Garber-Streit, Atlanta, Georgia
20. Kelli McCowan Richardson, Atlanta, Georgia
21. Sonia Cleobury, Atlanta, Georgia
22. Tanya Pereira, South Africa
23. Gia Penning. South Africa
24. Tania Du Plessis. South Africa
25. Tanya Minnie, South Africa
26. Lizelle Louw, South Africa
27. Margaret Teixeira South Africa
28. Ester Coetzee South Africa
29. Christine Munro South Africa
30. Hannelie van Zyl, South Africa
31. Macky McDonald, South Africa
32. Chris Tollner, South Africa
33. Vincent Bona, South Africa
34. Ingrid Lindsay-Smith, South Africa
35. Cathi Thalrose, South Africa
36. Pamela Reeves,South Africa
37. Gina Read, South Africa
38. Hilton Walker, South Africa
39. Djuma Game Reserve
40. Samantha Hunter, South Africa
41. Cameron Boustead, South Africa
42. Louise Ciolli-Haller, Cape Town, South Africa
43. Laeni Spiers, Cape Town, South Africa
44. Rene van Rensburg, Johannesburg, South Africa
45. Andre Nell, JHB, South Africa
46. Karen Nell, Jhb, South Africa
47. Lauren Williamson, Jhb, South Africa
48. Louise Lloyd, Jhb, South Africa
49. Judy Pienaar, Johannesburg, South Africa
50. Alison Perryman, Johannesburg, South Africa
51. Lorna Wheaton, Johannesburg, South Africa
52. Elizabeth Booysen, Johannesburg, South Africa
53. Alan Lodewyk, Cape Town , South Africa
54. Morne van Dalen, Cape Town, South Africa
55. Tanya van Dalen, Cape Town, South Africa
56. Marina van Dalen, Cape Town, South Africa
57. Roberta Bezzoli, London, UK
58. Kristina du Plessis, Cape Town, South Africa
59. Tracey De Wet, Cape Town, South Africa
60. Richard Dagge, Cape Town, South Africa
61. Guy van Overstraeten, Brussels, E.U.
62. Camillo Docimo, Naples, Italy - E.U.
63. Shada P. Conley, Naples, Italy - E.U.
64. Maresa Bertolo, Milan, EU
65. Alex Arrigoni, Siena, I, EU
66. Sigrid De Leo, EVU Secretary, Widnau, Switzerland
67. Marcel Hebbelinck, EVU President, Brussels, E.U.
68. Arne Wingqvist, (friend of all non-human beings), Stockholm,
E.U.
69. Sofia Paz, Barcelona Vegetarian Society, Catalonia, E.U
70. Enric LLacay, Barcelona Vegetarian Society, Catalonia, E.U
71. Ruth van der Leij, Dutch Society for the Protection of
Animals, The Netherlands
72. Maaike Raaijmakers, Dutch Society for the Protection of
Animals,The Netherlands
73. Ingrid Visseren-Hamakers, Rotterdam, The Netherlands
74. Anita Idel, (Critical Vets), Barsbek, Germany
75. Arne Andersen, Bremen, Germany
76. Verena Winiwarter, Vienna, Austria
77. Harald Wilfing, VIenna, Austria
78. Antonio Piedade, Lisboa, Portugal
79. Humberto Rosa, Lisboa, Portugal
80. Jorge Marques da Silva, Lisboa, Portugal
81. Ant=F3nio Paulo Pereira de Mira, Montemor-o-Novo, Portugal
82. M=E1rio Alexandre Lopes Rodrigues da Silva, Lisboa, Portugal
83. In=EAs Salema de Sousa e Meneses, Lisboa, Portugal
84. Paulo Gama Mota, Coimbra, Portugal
85. V=EDtor Manuel Carvalho Almada, Lisboa, Portugal
86. Nuno Miguel Pinto de Sousa Monteiro
87. Joao Bacelo, Porto, Portugal
88. Helena Gon=E7alves, Porto, Portugal
89. B=E1rbara Fr=E1guas, Sendim, Portugal
90. Jos=E9 Jambas, Sendim, Portugal
91. Ursula H=F6fle, Sevilleja, Spain
92. Paolo Zucca, Trieste, Italy
93. Davide Csermely, Parma, Italy
94. Paola Valsecchi, Parma, Italy
95.Emanuela Prato Previde, Milano, Italy
96.
97.
98.
99.
Emanuela Prato Previde
Emanuela Prato Previde
Assistant Professor
Istituto di Psicologia
=46acolta' di Medicina e Chirurgia
Universita' di Milano
Via T. Pini, 1
20134 Milano
Voice: (39)(2) 21210.201
=46ax: (39)(2) 2641.3376
Email: prato@imiucca.csi.unimi.it
From: IN%"marithe@mandic.com.br" "maria thereza" 20-NOV-1998 15:50:39.78
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: ISAE adress
Please, anyone knows the ISAE's adress for Latin America ?=20
Thanks
=09
Maria Thereza C G do Amaral
homeopata veterin=E1ria - veterinarian homeopatician
S=E3o Paulo - Brasil
marithe@mandic.com.br
http://pessoal.mandic.com.br/marithe/mth33.htm
From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 21-NOV-1998 17:16:06.62
To: IN%"hbe-l@a3.com" "INTERNET:hbe-l@a3.com", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology", IN%"darwin-and-darwinism-request@sheffield.ac.uk" "Darwin List_Serve"
CC:
Subj: Chimps update
Colleagues,
Forgive again, please, redundancy.
Jim Brody
-------------Forwarded Message-----------------
From: "Valerie J. Chalcraft", INTERNET:valeriec@scs.unr.edu
To: , JBrody
=
Date: 11/21/98 5:26 PM
RE: Chimps update
Hello! Thank you for your interest and/or participation in the petition t=
o
save the Air Force Chimpanzees. On August 6, 1998 the Air Force announced=
its decision to give 30 of the 141 chimpanzees to a sanctuary [there were=
143 but 2 died recently in The Coulston Foundation's (TCF) lab]. The
other 111 will stay with TCF in New Mexico, despite their poor animal car=
e
record. On September 23, 1998, a letter signed by dozens of Members of
Congress went to the House Government Reform and Oversight Committee
requesting hearings to investigate the Air Force's award of the 111 to TC=
F
On October 8, the Center for Captive Chimpanzee Care filed a lawsuit
against the Air Force asking the court to overturn the award. FOR MORE
INFORMATION ON THE ISSUE AND HOW YOU CAN HELP (WE NEED LETTERS!), PLEASE
VISIT THE WEB SITE OF THE CENTER FOR CAPTIVE CHIMPANZEE CARE:
** www.savethechimps.org ** Please send this to the person who sent you
the petition and anyone else who might be interested. THANK YOU AGAIN!
From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 22-NOV-1998 06:38:59.96
To: IN%"rosado@humboldt1.com" "Caleb Rosado", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych", IN%"hbe-l@a3.com" "INTERNET:hbe-l@a3.com", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology"
CC:
Subj: Happy Holidays
Message text written by Caleb Rosado
>HAPPINESS
Work like you don't need money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no one's watching.
Happiness and Cheers to you all.
Caleb<
Caleb,
This is great, I appreciate it and thank you.
Jim Brody
From: IN%"arl3342@montana.com" "peggy shunick" 22-NOV-1998 22:16:04.57
To: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody", IN%"rosado@humboldt1.com" "Caleb Rosado", IN%"paleopsych@kumo.com" "Paleopsych", IN%"hbe-l@a3.com" "INTERNET:hbe-l@a3.com", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology"
CC:
Subj: RE: Happy Holidays
Caleb,
May I quote you? My canine musical freestyle friends would love this!
Peggy
At 07:37 AM 11/22/98 -0500, James F. Brody wrote:
>Message text written by Caleb Rosado
>>HAPPINESS
>Work like you don't need money,
>Love like you've never been hurt,
>And dance like no one's watching.
>
>Happiness and Cheers to you all.
>
>Caleb<
>
>Caleb,
>
>This is great, I appreciate it and thank you.
>
>Jim Brody
>
>
Margaret A. (Peggy) Shunick, BA, BA, MS (Animals and Public Policy)
PO Box 844
Arlee MT 59821-0844
USA
406-726-3342
arl3342@montana.com
From: IN%"abrereton@tinet.ie" 25-NOV-1998 17:35:55.07
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology"
CC:
Subj: RE: feeding patterns in bovines
> carol Petherick wrote (20 November)
> Grazing behaviour of cattle, at least here in the tropics and
sub-tropics,
> is highly correlated to the thermal environment. Cattle here do most of
> their grazing in the cool part of the diurnal cycle i.e. night, early
> morning and evening. For the rest of the day they 'camp' (not
necessarily
> in the shade - Bos indicus animals) and ruminate. This same pattern is
seen
> for feedlot cattle too, and may be more important to them with high
energy
> diets and increasing the thermal load on them.
We think that the cattle we work with would respond to thermal stress in
the same way and that there would be compensation elsewhere in the day.
We have re-ordered our thoughts a bit following the exchanges that have
taken place.
The pattern of feeding that we observe might be seen to consist of two
cycles. There is a big daily cycle with little or no grazing during
darkness and increasing activity after dawn leading to a peak in activity
around sunset and then the cycle is repeated. Within this big cycle there
is a smaller scale cycle of alternating periods of grazing and not
grazing(ruminating). It occurs to me that the big daily cycle would have an
associated metabolic cycle which lags some hours behind the intake cycle.
The lag would reflect the time involved in digestion and absorption. The
feeding pattern that we observe may be a response to the metabolic cycle.
We are familiar with the idea that satiety affects bout grazing activity.
In 1992 Tolkamp and Ketelaars (Livestock Production Science - 3 papers)
proposed , on the basis of scrutiny of a large body of published data, that
daily intake is controlled by an optimisation target at the whole animal
level and that the animal was capable of controlling intake rate. In the
period of the day where thermal stress occurs it is possible that the
animal is still on the "high" part of the daily cycle and the grazing
switch may be trembling close to the "off" position. It may not be "a big
deal" when grazing is suppressed.
The relative constancy of total daily grazing time in our data suggested to
us that intake is regulated by the animal relative to a target. Regulation
implies that the system "knows" time. The light associated feature of the
pattern may be involved in that.
Anthony Brereton
Mary Linnane
From: IN%"pbmcconn@facstaff.wisc.edu" 27-NOV-1998 13:18:30.61
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: need refs - Belaevy & Wayne
I'm in need of two references:
I can't find my reference to Belyaev's work on selective breeding and
docility in foxes, which I want to include in a book review. If anyone has
a reference to his work, please send it along asap.
I also would appreciate a reference for Wayne's work on the evolution of
domestic dogs. He's at UCLA and has hypothesized that dogs were
domesticated far earlier than the usual 10-15,000 year estimate. I have
read of his work in a newspaper article, but haven't seen the original
work.
Thank you so much.
Trisha
***********************************
Patricia B. McConnell, Ph.D.
Ass't Adjunct Professor,
Dept. of Zoology, UW-Madison
Birge Hall, Madison, Wisconsin 53706
Applied Ethologist,
Dog's Best Friend, Ltd.
P.O. Box 447
Black Earth, Wisconsin 53515
608 767-2435
FAX 608 767-3726
(Send mail or calls here, not to UW)
************************************
From: IN%"slindsay@ix.netcom.com" 27-NOV-1998 14:07:33.74
To: IN%"pbmcconn@facstaff.wisc.edu" "Patricia Mcconnell"
CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
Subj: RE: need refs - Belaevy & Wayne
Hi Trish,
The following are probably what you are looking for:
Belyaev DK (1975) Some genetic and endocrine effects of selection for
domestication in silver foxes. In MW Fox (Ed) The Wild Canids: Their
Systematics, Behavioral Ecology, and Evolution. New York: Van Nostrand
Reinhold Co.
Belyaev DK (1979). Destabilizing selection as a factor in domestication. J
Hered, 70:301-308.
Vila C, Savolainen P, Maldonado JE, Amorin IR, Rice JE, Honeycut RL, Crandal
KA, Lundeberg J, Wayne RK (1997). Multiple and ancient origins of the
domestic dog. Science, 276:1687-1689.
Wayne RK (1993). Molecular evolution of the dog family. Trends in Genetics,
9:218-224.
Steve Lindsay
Canine Behavioral Services
Philadelphia, PA
Patricia Mcconnell wrote:
> I'm in need of two references:
>
> I can't find my reference to Belyaev's work on selective breeding and
> docility in foxes, which I want to include in a book review. If anyone has
> a reference to his work, please send it along asap.
>
> I also would appreciate a reference for Wayne's work on the evolution of
> domestic dogs. He's at UCLA and has hypothesized that dogs were
> domesticated far earlier than the usual 10-15,000 year estimate. I have
> read of his work in a newspaper article, but haven't seen the original
> work.
>
> Thank you so much.
>
> Trisha
>
> ***********************************
> Patricia B. McConnell, Ph.D.
> Ass't Adjunct Professor,
> Dept. of Zoology, UW-Madison
> Birge Hall, Madison, Wisconsin 53706
>
> Applied Ethologist,
> Dog's Best Friend, Ltd.
> P.O. Box 447
> Black Earth, Wisconsin 53515
> 608 767-2435
> FAX 608 767-3726
> (Send mail or calls here, not to UW)
> ************************************
From: IN%"arl3342@montana.com" "peggy shunick" 27-NOV-1998 16:25:09.39
To: IN%"pbmcconn@facstaff.wisc.edu", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: RE: need refs - Belaevy & Wayne
>I can't find my reference to Belyaev's work on selective breeding and
>docility in foxes, which I want to include in a book review. If anyone has
>a reference to his work, please send it along asap.
Is this it?
Belyaev, D. K. (1979). Destabilizing selection as a factor in
domestication. Journal of Heredity, 70, 301-8.
>I also would appreciate a reference for Wayne's work on the evolution of
...don't know Wayne's work, but I'd love to make his acquaintance.
Margaret A. (Peggy) Shunick, BA, BA, MS (Animals and Public Policy)
PO Box 844
Arlee MT 59821-0844
USA
406-726-3342
arl3342@montana.com
From: IN%"brooksd@uoguelph.ca" "Brooksie" 28-NOV-1998 11:46:30.61
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: Horses & tie-stalls
Does anyone have/know of:
a) studies that compare tie-stalls or standing stalls as it relates to box
stalls, and the behavioural and welfare implications of each?
AND/OR
b) any stats that describe how many horses are housed in each type of
system in Canada, NA, or anywhere in the world?
Please help ASAP....
THANKS!
__________________________________________________________________________
()/\() ()/\()
( oo )---------\ D a v i d R. B r o o k s /--------( oo)
(__)| Moo U | | Moo U (__)
uu | | b r o o k s d @ u o g u e l p h . c a | |uu
|\---(--)/| |\(--)---/|
|| !! || || !! ||
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Ever imagine a world with no hypothetical situations?
__________________________________________________________________________
From: IN%"pjr2904@rocketmail.com" "Philip Roberts" 30-NOV-1998 05:38:26.59
To: IN%"113553.1443@compuserve.com", IN%"sally.beeston@yorkshire.tv.co.uk", IN%"kduking@casema.nl", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"karahi@hotmail.com", IN%"DHough67@aol.com", IN%"jmhudson@rocketmail.com", IN%"SCZO6113@BUREAU.UCC.IE", IN%"ejho@lin
CC:
Subj: CHANGE OF EMAIL ADDRESS
From December 1st, I will be reachable at the
following email address.
proberts@isparis.edu
This existing address will also remain useable
(pjr2904@rocketmail.com).
Thanks.
Philip Roberts.
_________________________________________________________
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From: IN%"eoprice@ucdavis.edu" "Edward O. Price" 30-NOV-1998 10:37:51.91
To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology-error"
CC:
Subj: RE: need refs - Belaevy & Wayne
Trisha: I think the Belyaev paper you are thinking of is Belyaev, D.K.,
Plyusnina, I.Z. and Trut, L.N. (1984-1985). Domestication in the silver fox
(Vulpes fulvus Desm): Changes in physiological boundaries of the sensitive
period of primary socialization. Appl. Anim. Behav. Sci. 13:359-370.
The Wayne article you refer to may have appeared in Science.
Ed
----------
>From: applied-ethology-error
>To: applied-ethology
>Subject: need refs - Belaevy & Wayne
>Date: Friday, November 27, 1998 1:21PM
>
>I'm in need of two references:
>
>I can't find my reference to Belyaev's work on selective breeding and
>docility in foxes, which I want to include in a book review. If anyone has
>a reference to his work, please send it along asap.
>
>I also would appreciate a reference for Wayne's work on the evolution of
>domestic dogs. He's at UCLA and has hypothesized that dogs were
>domesticated far earlier than the usual 10-15,000 year estimate. I have
>read of his work in a newspaper article, but haven't seen the original
>work.
>
>Thank you so much.
>
>Trisha
>
>***********************************
>Patricia B. McConnell, Ph.D.
>Ass't Adjunct Professor,
>Dept. of Zoology, UW-Madison
>Birge Hall, Madison, Wisconsin 53706
>
>Applied Ethologist,
>Dog's Best Friend, Ltd.
>P.O. Box 447
>Black Earth, Wisconsin 53515
>608 767-2435
>FAX 608 767-3726
>(Send mail or calls here, not to UW)
>************************************
>
>
>
From: IN%"joseph.barber@wolfson.oxford.ac.uk" "Joseph Barber" 30-NOV-1998 11:49:53.16
To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied ethology"
CC:
Subj: Sex differences to enrichment
Hello everyone,
about a year and a half ago I completed a little study looking
into environmental enrichment for voles, using fresh grass as a type
of potential enrichment (or complexity). Although there were several
problems with the design of the experiment, such as not using newly weaned
voles (Microtus agrestis), I did find a couple of interesting results.
Female voles seemed to show more of an improvement on addition of
the grass than the males, in terms of reduced stereotypic frequency, and
only females made complex nests with the grass. I put the nesting
behaviour down to 'maternal instincts', but I don't think this fully
explains why the females showed a greater improvement.
Do males and females have a different perception of their
environment, and would this affect the way they use different types of
enrichment? Has anyone else found this sexual difference, or does anyone
know of any other examples of this?
I have discovered that female rats are less prone to develop
ulcers in conflict inducing situations, and are better at learning active
avoidance behaviour than males (Grey, 1987). I was just wondering whether
female voles (or other animals) perhaps showed a different type of
development or establishment of stereotypies that would make them easier
to disrupt using enrichment???????
Any ideas?
Joseph
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Barber
University of Oxford
Department of Zoology
Animal Behaviour Research Group
Tel: 01865 (2)71217
From: IN%"st93044@jaguar1.usouthal.edu" "Michele Rene Eilers" 30-NOV-1998 13:48:12.82
To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: RE: Sex differences to enrichment
On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, Joseph Barber wrote:
> Do males and females have a different perception of their
> environment, and would this affect the way they use different types of
> enrichment? Has anyone else found this sexual difference, or does anyone
> know of any other examples of this?
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Joseph Barber
> University of Oxford
> Department of Zoology
> Animal Behaviour Research Group
> Tel: 01865 (2)71217
>
I have just started a dissertation addressing this question. Numerous
papers have shown sexual differentiation with regards to predation risk
and survivorship. This, along with the fact that males and females of
almost every species should experience differential energetic costs due
egg versus sperm production, leads to the question of whether or not the
two sexes and gravid versus non-gravid females perceive and utilize their
environment differently. I'm attempting to see if males, gravids, and
non-gravid females utilize vegetative cover to the same extent when
confronted with a predatory threat. The majority of references I have used
deal with gender differences in antipredatory behavior but a good review
paper on behavioral trade-offs was put out by Lima and Dill (1990). Another
paper that comes to mind looks at the foraging activities of males and
females when offered 3 food levels combined with 2 levels of predation
risk. It seems to me that if perception differs, behavior should also
differ in order to appropriately respond to a variety of environmental
conditions without using "unnecessary energy".
Lima, S.L. and L.M. Dill. 1990. Behavioral decisions made under the risk
of predation: a review and prospectus. Canadian Journal of Zoology,
68:619-640.
Abrahams, M.V. and L.M. Dill. 1989. A determination of the energetic
equivalence of the risk of predation. Ecology, 70:999-1007.
Hope this helps some.
Michele Eilers
Dauphin Island Sea Lab
101 Bienville Boulevard
Dauphin Island, AL 36528
st93044@jaguar1.usouthal.edu
From: IN%"JBrody@compuserve.com" "James F. Brody" 30-NOV-1998 15:49:43.91
To: IN%"st93044@jaguar1.usouthal.edu" "Michele Rene Eilers", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology", IN%"hbe-l@a3.com" "INTERNET:hbe-l@a3.com"
CC:
Subj: RE: Sex differences to enrichment
Message text written by Michele Rene Eilers
>On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, Joseph Barber wrote:
> Do males and females have a different perception of their
> environment, and would this affect the way they use different types of
> enrichment? Has anyone else found this sexual difference, or does anyon=
e
> know of any other examples of this? =
> =
> Any ideas?
> =
> Joseph Barber<
Michele,
Please relay to Joe Barber, I missed his original ...
The evolutionary psych literature suggests incidental memory to be superi=
or
in females ... no one asks dad where the lost cap might be. Citations ca=
n
be found in "The Adapted Mind."
Perceptions of sexually desirable partners differ.
Rachel Gur has commented that normal males cannot identify anger in
photographs of women but are accurate in regard to the other basic
emotions. Women are accurate regardless of emotions portrayed.
Gur's finding, if real, would make sense in that women appear to counter=
male power through alliances with other women and sometimes non-spouse
males such as relatives, therapists, or attorneys. Thus, women, to manag=
e
dispersed alliances more effectively might gain from "annoyance detectors=
."
It may be that ANY difference in psychological adaptations reflects like=
ly
differences in perception -- not in sensory capability so much as in a
differential response to varied stimuli. I expect that women might be
more sensitive to differences in infant distress calls, for example.
Fascinating stuff, lots of "just so" tales, including some of the above. =
Justified by heuristics?
Jim Brody
From: IN%"bregman@interactive.net" "VIVIAN & MICKEY BREGMAN" 30-NOV-1998 17:34:05.60
To: IN%"applied-ethology-error@sask.usask.ca"
CC:
Subj: RE: Sex differences to enrichment
At 04:00 PM 11/30/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Message text written by Michele Rene Eilers
>>On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, Joseph Barber wrote:
>
>> Do males and females have a different perception of their
>> environment, and would this affect the way they use different types of
>> enrichment?
Different perceptions of their environment?
During sex, men seem to be unconscious of their environment (except, one
hopes, their partner) while women notice every little noise ---- including
children crying, dogs throwing up, house creaking, etc.
This is strictly anecdotal --- not just me, but every one of my female
friends has noticed.
I have no plans for a PhD paper.
I throw this open to the list.
Feel free to borrow the idea.
I would like a footnote, but it is not absolutely necessary.
Vivian
dog trainer
wife of 40 years
Vivian Bregman & the Border Collies in Northern NJ
"CIVILIZE YOUR DOG!"
Showing since 1963, Teaching since 1965
NADOI # 860 & APDT #1220P ** bregman@interactive.net