From: IN%"myriad@ksu.edu" "Jeanne Saddler" 1-SEP-2001 18:58:42.70 To: CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Training Guidelines - help On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Petherick, Carol (TBC) wrote: > Personally I'm not sure the > statements on negative and positive reinforcement are technically correct, > but the Code was written as a 'users' guide', not for the scientific > fraternity. Wouldn't it be important to use correct terminology and definitions no matter *who* the document is prepared for? Applied Operant Conditioning requires specific definitions for positive reinforcement (R+), negative reinforcement (R-), positive punishment (P+), and negative punishment (P-). It seems to me that the more widely a document is distributed the more important it would be to insure it is technically correct. H.U.G. Your dog! Jeanne Saddler, myriad@ksu.edu (Manhattan Kansas) From: IN%"rudy.demeester@pi.be" "de meester rudy" 2-SEP-2001 03:37:24.60 To: IN%"myriad@ksu.edu" "'Jeanne Saddler'" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Training Guidelines - help Hi to all, In the ESVCE ( European Society Veterinary Clinical Ethology) we have an analogous discussion now on terminology. Is there in the ISAE an " dictionary" that is widely accepted by the scientists and if yes what are the references. Terms as stereotypie, displacement activity,...there are so many definitions and they differ in the details. If we want to define a pathological behaviour, we must have clear definitions for all the entities it can consist of. Same thing for quantitative criteria: what is the normal range for different behaviours ( sleeping time, dream activities...) in dogs and cats at any age? Thanks a lot Rudy De Meester ESVCE Op zondag 2 september 2001 2:58, heeft Jeanne Saddler [SMTP:myriad@ksu.edu] geschreven: > On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Petherick, Carol (TBC) wrote: > > Personally I'm not sure the > > statements on negative and positive reinforcement are technically correct, > > but the Code was written as a 'users' guide', not for the scientific > > fraternity. > Wouldn't it be important to use correct terminology and definitions no > matter *who* the document is prepared for? Applied Operant Conditioning > requires specific definitions for positive reinforcement (R+), negative > reinforcement (R-), positive punishment (P+), and negative punishment > (P-). It seems to me that the more widely a document is distributed the > more important it would be to insure it is technically correct. > > H.U.G. Your dog! > Jeanne Saddler, myriad@ksu.edu (Manhattan Kansas) > > From: IN%"Gerflannigan@aol.com" 2-SEP-2001 08:20:57.21 To: IN%"rudy.demeester@pi.be" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Training Guidelines - help There is a farm animal behavior dictionary authored, I believe, by Jeff Rushen. Can't remember the name but I am sure someone must have it on their shelf. From the veterianry point of view there is "The Veterinarian's Encyclopedia of Animal Behavior" by Bonnie Beaver, Iowa State Press, 1994 which is a book of definitions. Hope this helps, Gerry _________________________________________________________________ Gerry Flannigan DVM, MSc Carolina Veterinary Specialists Greensboro/Charlotte, North Carolina 336-632-0605 (Voice) 336-632-0703 (Fax) gerflannigan@aol.com From: IN%"billcamp@cdsnet.net" "Bill Campbell" 2-SEP-2001 10:50:31.59 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Training guidelines Hi Rudy et. al., I'd venture that the best text so far dealing with the science of ethology is A Dictionary of Ethology, Klaus Immelmann / Colin Beer, Harvard Univ. Press, 1989. Bonnie Beaver's Veterinarian's Encyclopedia of Animal Behavior, 1994, brought together terminology and definitions from many fields and those who worked in them. It's my hope that the next step will deal with companion animal ethology; an encyclopedia that will include the human animal's behavior and its role in the total millieu. :-) Bill Campbell PO Box 1658 Grants Pass, OR 97528 billcamp@cdsnet.net http://www.webtrail.com/petbehavior From: IN%"Gerflannigan@aol.com" 2-SEP-2001 15:25:22.54 To: IN%"rudy.demeester@pi.be" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Training Guidelines - help As an aside the other book I mentioned is: Dictionary of Farm Animal Behavior J. F. Hurnik,With A. B. Webster,With P. B. Siegel / Paperback / Iowa State University Press / November 1995 _________________________________________________________________ Gerry Flannigan DVM, MSc Carolina Veterinary Specialists Greensboro/Charlotte, North Carolina 336-632-0605 (Voice) 336-632-0703 (Fax) gerflannigan@aol.com From: IN%"margory@dnai.com" "margory cohen" 3-SEP-2001 13:02:32.42 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: Vicki Hearne Hello. This is hardly something for email but in case any haven't read or heard, Vicki Hearne, trainer, poet, writer, died August 21, 2001. Cancer. Didn't stop her writing or helping someone to find a trainer just days before death. _Adam's Task_ was just reissued last year. www.dogtrainingarts.com is still up and the work will go on. margory cohen From: IN%"J.G.van_Dijk.neur@lumc.nl" "Dijk, J.G. van (NEUR)" 6-SEP-2001 03:10:52.84 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca'" CC: Subj: fainting / syncope in animals? I am a neurologist at Leiden University, and am interested in 'vasovagal syncope', also known as the 'common faint'. This is the type of fainting that is induced by fear, pain, anxiety, seeing blood, etc. The basis of such faints is a reflex: a trigger (fear etc) leads to slowing of heart rate and /or a drop in blood pressure. In other words, the circulation is shut down. There is no clear advantage in having such a reflex, and yet we all have it. There are no good medical explanations for its existence. There might be a link to 'tonic immobility', but this does not seem to occur in primates. I was wondering whether fainting due to similar psychological triggers also occurs in other mammals. I did find one statement on the internet that young stallions may faint preparatory to copulation, which sounds similar. However, no details were offered. Does anyone know whether or not fainting of the vasovagal type occurs in mammals? J Gert van Dijk Professor of Clinical Neurophysiology Leiden University Medical Centre Leiden, The Netherlands From: IN%"chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "Chris Sherwin" 6-SEP-2001 03:46:58.90 To: IN%"J.G.van_Dijk.neur@lumc.nl" "Dijk, J.G. van (NEUR)" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca'" Subj: RE: fainting / syncope in animals? Dear All, There is a breed/strain of goat which has been artificially selacted to show the behaviour that I think Prof. van Dijk refers to. I saw a small group of these recently in California and I've attached a JPEG of the 'explanatory notes'. There is a also an MPEG available on various web sites showing the goats actually fainting. I had always thought this was an extreme case of toic immobility, but maybe one difference is that retstraint is required for tonic immobility. In addition, the animal remains conscious during TI (at least in hens) - this doesn't occur during vasovagal fainting - I have no idea whether these goats remain conscious or not. Regards, Chris ............................................................. Dr C.M. Sherwin UFAW Research Fellow (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Centre for Behavioural Biology, Department of Clinical Veterinary Science, University of Bristol, Langford House, Langford, BS40 5DU, U.K. Tel: [44] (0)117 928 9486 Fax: [44] (0)117 928 9582 email: Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk On Thu, 06 Sep 2001 11:11:35 +0200 "Dijk, J.G. van (NEUR)" wrote: > I am a neurologist at Leiden University, and am interested in 'vasovagal > syncope', also known as the 'common faint'. This is the type of fainting > that is induced by fear, pain, anxiety, seeing blood, etc. The basis of such > faints is a reflex: a trigger (fear etc) leads to slowing of heart rate and > /or a drop in blood pressure. In other words, the circulation is shut down. > There is no clear advantage in having such a reflex, and yet we all have it. > There are no good medical explanations for its existence. There might be a > link to 'tonic immobility', but this does not seem to occur in primates. > > I was wondering whether fainting due to similar psychological triggers also > occurs in other mammals. I did find one statement on the internet that young > stallions may faint preparatory to copulation, which sounds similar. > However, no details were offered. > > Does anyone know whether or not fainting of the vasovagal type occurs in > mammals? > > J Gert van Dijk > Professor of Clinical Neurophysiology > Leiden University Medical Centre > Leiden, The Netherlands From: IN%"J.G.van_Dijk.neur@lumc.nl" "Dijk, J.G. van (NEUR)" 6-SEP-2001 03:51:36.94 To: IN%"chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "'Chris Sherwin'" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca'" Subj: RE: fainting / syncope in animals? Unfortunately for my purposes, these goats apparently suffer from myotonia: I came across them as well, and found that 'fainting' is a misnomer in their case: it's stiff muscles rather than a halted circulation for these poor goats. There's also the line of 'Arkansas Nervous Pointer Dogs', that might look like they faint, but they don't: again, it's muscle stiffness. Thanks for the tip though! Gert van Dijk -----Original Message----- From: Chris Sherwin [mailto:chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk] Sent: donderdag 6 september 2001 11:41 To: Dijk, J.G. van (NEUR) Cc: 'Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca' Subject: Re: fainting / syncope in animals? Dear All, There is a breed/strain of goat which has been artificially selacted to show the behaviour that I think Prof. van Dijk refers to. I saw a small group of these recently in California and I've attached a JPEG of the 'explanatory notes'. There is a also an MPEG available on various web sites showing the goats actually fainting. I had always thought this was an extreme case of toic immobility, but maybe one difference is that retstraint is required for tonic immobility. In addition, the animal remains conscious during TI (at least in hens) - this doesn't occur during vasovagal fainting - I have no idea whether these goats remain conscious or not. Regards, Chris ............................................................. Dr C.M. Sherwin UFAW Research Fellow (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Centre for Behavioural Biology, Department of Clinical Veterinary Science, University of Bristol, Langford House, Langford, BS40 5DU, U.K. Tel: [44] (0)117 928 9486 Fax: [44] (0)117 928 9582 email: Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk On Thu, 06 Sep 2001 11:11:35 +0200 "Dijk, J.G. van (NEUR)" wrote: > I am a neurologist at Leiden University, and am interested in 'vasovagal > syncope', also known as the 'common faint'. This is the type of fainting > that is induced by fear, pain, anxiety, seeing blood, etc. The basis of such > faints is a reflex: a trigger (fear etc) leads to slowing of heart rate and > /or a drop in blood pressure. In other words, the circulation is shut down. > There is no clear advantage in having such a reflex, and yet we all have it. > There are no good medical explanations for its existence. There might be a > link to 'tonic immobility', but this does not seem to occur in primates. > > I was wondering whether fainting due to similar psychological triggers also > occurs in other mammals. I did find one statement on the internet that young > stallions may faint preparatory to copulation, which sounds similar. > However, no details were offered. > > Does anyone know whether or not fainting of the vasovagal type occurs in > mammals? > > J Gert van Dijk > Professor of Clinical Neurophysiology > Leiden University Medical Centre > Leiden, The Netherlands > > From: IN%"chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "Chris Sherwin" 6-SEP-2001 04:35:55.35 To: IN%"J.G.van_Dijk.neur@lumc.nl" "Dijk, J.G. van (NEUR)" CC: IN%"chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "'Chris Sherwin'", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca'" Subj: RE: fainting / syncope in animals? Thank-you for clarifying this. Regards Chris ............................................................. Dr C.M. Sherwin UFAW Research Fellow (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Centre for Behavioural Biology, Department of Clinical Veterinary Science, University of Bristol, Langford House, Langford, BS40 5DU, U.K. On Thu, 06 Sep 2001 11:52:22 +0200 "Dijk, J.G. van (NEUR)" wrote: > Unfortunately for my purposes, these goats apparently suffer from myotonia: > I came across them as well, and found that 'fainting' is a misnomer in their > case: it's stiff muscles rather than a halted circulation for these poor > goats. There's also the line of 'Arkansas Nervous Pointer Dogs', that might > look like they faint, but they don't: again, it's muscle stiffness. > > Thanks for the tip though! > > Gert van Dijk > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Sherwin [mailto:chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk] > Sent: donderdag 6 september 2001 11:41 > To: Dijk, J.G. van (NEUR) > Cc: 'Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca' > Subject: Re: fainting / syncope in animals? > > > > Dear All, > > There is a breed/strain of goat which has been artificially selacted to show > the > behaviour that I think Prof. van Dijk refers to. I saw a small group of > these > recently in California and I've attached a JPEG of the 'explanatory notes'. > There > is a also an MPEG available on various web sites showing the goats actually > fainting. I had always thought this was an extreme case of toic immobility, > but > maybe one difference is that retstraint is required for tonic immobility. > In > addition, the animal remains conscious during TI (at least in hens) - this > doesn't > occur during vasovagal fainting - I have no idea whether these goats remain > conscious or not. > > Regards, > > Chris > > ............................................................. > Dr C.M. Sherwin > UFAW Research Fellow (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) > Centre for Behavioural Biology, > Department of Clinical Veterinary Science, > University of Bristol, > Langford House, > Langford, > BS40 5DU, U.K. > > > Tel: [44] (0)117 928 9486 > Fax: [44] (0)117 928 9582 > email: Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk > > > > > On Thu, 06 Sep 2001 11:11:35 +0200 "Dijk, J.G. van (NEUR)" > wrote: > > > I am a neurologist at Leiden University, and am interested in 'vasovagal > > syncope', also known as the 'common faint'. This is the type of fainting > > that is induced by fear, pain, anxiety, seeing blood, etc. The basis of > such > > faints is a reflex: a trigger (fear etc) leads to slowing of heart rate > and > > /or a drop in blood pressure. In other words, the circulation is shut > down. > > There is no clear advantage in having such a reflex, and yet we all have > it. > > There are no good medical explanations for its existence. There might be a > > link to 'tonic immobility', but this does not seem to occur in primates. > > > > I was wondering whether fainting due to similar psychological triggers > also > > occurs in other mammals. I did find one statement on the internet that > young > > stallions may faint preparatory to copulation, which sounds similar. > > However, no details were offered. > > > > Does anyone know whether or not fainting of the vasovagal type occurs in > > mammals? > > > > J Gert van Dijk > > Professor of Clinical Neurophysiology > > Leiden University Medical Centre > > Leiden, The Netherlands > > > > > > > ............................................................. Dr C.M. Sherwin UFAW Research Fellow (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Centre for Behavioural Biology, Department of Clinical Veterinary Science, University of Bristol, Langford House, Langford, BS40 5DU, U.K. Tel: [44] (0)117 928 9486 Fax: [44] (0)117 928 9582 email: Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk From: IN%"whfeep@ihug.co.nz" "Andy Beck" 6-SEP-2001 05:11:21.43 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE:fainting / syncope in animals? Hi - I am an equine ethologist. I noted your mention of young stallions fainting prior to copulation - something I have not previously come across in either practice or literature. Surely this would have a very negative impact on courtship behavior? If it occurs it seems more likely to me that it might be an 'hysterical' reaction expressed by a socially deprived colt. Has any other list member any information on this? Regards Andy Beck From: IN%"DMills@dmu.ac.uk" "Daniel Mills" 6-SEP-2001 05:37:54.25 To: IN%"J.G.van_Dijk.neur@lumc.nl" "'Dijk, J.G. van (NEUR)'", IN%"chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk" "'Chris Sherwin'" CC: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca'" Subj: RE: fainting / syncope in animals? Hi I have heard these reports occasionally as well and it is generally recognised that some horses go down momentarily when you do up their girth. It has been suggested that this may be a form of narcolepsy though as it responds to imipramine. But as a TCA imipramine also has anti-cholinergic effects, vaso-vagal links cannot be ruled out. An abstract of the narcolepsy hypothesis was published in an Equine Veterinary Journal supplement 27 (1998) by Geering and Johnson. I am not aware of anyone having looked at blood pressure changes which help distinguish these hypotheses. I certainly don't think they are anything to do with TI. If the stalion is in the process of rising or dismounting then there are likely to be substantial intrathoracic pressure changes which would result in posisble heart block Hope this helps, I'd be interested to hear more as and when you find it Best wishes Daniel Daniel Mills BVSc MRCVS Principal Lecturer in Behavioural Studies & Animal Welfare Animal Behaviour, Welfare and Cognition Group University of Lincoln Caythorpe Campus Caythorpe Lincs NG32 3EP UK Tel 44(0)1400 275629 e-mail dmills@dmu.ac.uk web-page http://www.dmu.ac.uk/ln/Agriculture/staffcvs/DanielS.Mills.htm -----Original Message----- From: Dijk, J.G. van (NEUR) [mailto:J.G.van_Dijk.neur@lumc.nl] Sent: 06 September 2001 10:52 To: 'Chris Sherwin' Cc: 'Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca' Subject: RE: fainting / syncope in animals? Unfortunately for my purposes, these goats apparently suffer from myotonia: I came across them as well, and found that 'fainting' is a misnomer in their case: it's stiff muscles rather than a halted circulation for these poor goats. There's also the line of 'Arkansas Nervous Pointer Dogs', that might look like they faint, but they don't: again, it's muscle stiffness. Thanks for the tip though! Gert van Dijk -----Original Message----- From: Chris Sherwin [mailto:chris.sherwin@bristol.ac.uk] Sent: donderdag 6 september 2001 11:41 To: Dijk, J.G. van (NEUR) Cc: 'Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca' Subject: Re: fainting / syncope in animals? Dear All, There is a breed/strain of goat which has been artificially selacted to show the behaviour that I think Prof. van Dijk refers to. I saw a small group of these recently in California and I've attached a JPEG of the 'explanatory notes'. There is a also an MPEG available on various web sites showing the goats actually fainting. I had always thought this was an extreme case of toic immobility, but maybe one difference is that retstraint is required for tonic immobility. In addition, the animal remains conscious during TI (at least in hens) - this doesn't occur during vasovagal fainting - I have no idea whether these goats remain conscious or not. Regards, Chris ............................................................. Dr C.M. Sherwin UFAW Research Fellow (Animal Behaviour and Welfare) Centre for Behavioural Biology, Department of Clinical Veterinary Science, University of Bristol, Langford House, Langford, BS40 5DU, U.K. Tel: [44] (0)117 928 9486 Fax: [44] (0)117 928 9582 email: Chris.Sherwin@bristol.ac.uk On Thu, 06 Sep 2001 11:11:35 +0200 "Dijk, J.G. van (NEUR)" wrote: > I am a neurologist at Leiden University, and am interested in 'vasovagal > syncope', also known as the 'common faint'. This is the type of fainting > that is induced by fear, pain, anxiety, seeing blood, etc. The basis of such > faints is a reflex: a trigger (fear etc) leads to slowing of heart rate and > /or a drop in blood pressure. In other words, the circulation is shut down. > There is no clear advantage in having such a reflex, and yet we all have it. > There are no good medical explanations for its existence. There might be a > link to 'tonic immobility', but this does not seem to occur in primates. > > I was wondering whether fainting due to similar psychological triggers also > occurs in other mammals. I did find one statement on the internet that young > stallions may faint preparatory to copulation, which sounds similar. > However, no details were offered. > > Does anyone know whether or not fainting of the vasovagal type occurs in > mammals? > > J Gert van Dijk > Professor of Clinical Neurophysiology > Leiden University Medical Centre > Leiden, The Netherlands > > From: IN%"Jon.Day@adas.co.uk" "Jon Day" 6-SEP-2001 07:57:34.67 To: IN%"Jon.Day@adas.co.uk" "Jon Day", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca", IN%"ISAEnet-l@usask.ca" CC: Subj: ISAE Regional Meeting for the UK and Eire (York 2002) - FIRST ANNOUNCEMENT --Boundary_(ID_TLUVnNjANEMIrDClaadRUg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Content-disposition: inline 2nd Joint Annual Meeting of the International Society of Applied Ethology (= ISAE), British Society of Animal Science (BSAS) and World Poultry Science A= ssociation (WPSA) Applied Ethology in the Laboratory, on the Farm and at Home & Ethical Issues in Animal Science York 8-10th April, 2002 Building on the foundation of the first joint meeting of the ISAE, BSAS and= WPSA, the YORK 2002 ANNUAL MEETING promises an exciting and varied program= me with a dual theme. The city of York provides the spectacular backdrop t= o the conference venue which has already proved itself to be the ideal loca= tion for the joint meeting. Sessions of direct interest to ISAE delegates = will include: Applied Ethology in the Laboratory, on Farm and at Home (ISAE session) The application of ethology in discrete areas can lead to the slow and some= times incestuous development of theories, methodologies and knowledge. The= aim of this session is to encourage discussion across the usual species ba= rriers; seeking to identify the areas where there is commonality between re= searchers, and explore the areas where there is disagreement. It is antici= pated that areas of common interest will be identified, and pairs of speake= rs recruited to give a short presentation of the work of applied ethology e= ither in the laboratory, on farm, or at home. Participants interested in t= his session are invited to contact the ISAE Regional Secretary (Jon.Day@ad= as.co.uk). Ethical Issues in Animal Science (Joint ISAE/BSAS session) This session aims to consider pertinent ethical issues in animal science. = Topics will include 'animal rights and wrongs', 'the ethical basis of anima= l experimentation' and 'the ethical basis of intensive livestock production= '. Due to the impact of Foot and Mouth Disease in the United Kingdom, this= session was cancelled in 2001, but it is with great pleasure that the spea= kers have been invited to reconvene in York in 2002. Free Communications (ISAE session) The meeting provides the ideal springboard for emerging young scientists to= present their work to a larger audience of peers for the first time and as= platform for the more established leaders in the field of applied ethology= . A prize of =A325 will be awarded by to the best oral and best poster pre= sentation given by a scientist under the age of 30 making their first or se= cond presentation at the joint meeting. What Price Cheap Food (Satellite Meeting of the BSAS) A satellite meeting will be held that brings together farmers, consumer rep= resentatives, supermarket managers, legislators, animal welfare groups and = environmentalists to discuss the implications of a cheap food policy. Spea= kers will tackle issues such as how food prices are determined, externaliti= es, farm income and security, animal welfare, environmental impact and food= safety. The submission of one page summaries is invited by the deadline of 31st Oct= ober, 2001. Instructions for authors will be available on the ISAEUK websi= te soon (http://www.isaeuk.fsnet.co.uk/) Jon Day ISAE Secretary for UK and Eire *A COPY OF THIS ANNOUNCEMENT IS ATTACHED FOR DISPLAY ON YOUR DEPARTMENTAL N= OTICEBOARD* _______________________________ Dr. Jon E. L. Day ADAS Terrington Terrington St. Clement Kings Lynn Norfolk PE34 4PW Direct line: +44 (0)1553 825891 Secretary : +44 (0)1553 828621 Fax: +44 (0)1553 827229 e_mail: Jon.Day@adas.co.uk ***************************************************************************= **** The information transmitted is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by parties other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Opinions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of ADAS are neither given nor endorsed by it. For more information on ADAS, visit our website at http://www.adas.co.uk. ***************************************************************************= **** --Boundary_(ID_TLUVnNjANEMIrDClaadRUg) Content-type: application/msword; NAME=ISAE_1ST.DOC Content-transfer-encoding: BASE64 Content-disposition: attachment; filename=ISAE_1ST.DOC 0M8R4KGxGuEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPgADAP7/CQAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAEAAAAwAAAAEAAAD+////AAAAAAEAAAD///////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AnUBAAVWgV0DAAdVgV0DAGIGBl0DAGMYAAAIVYFdAwBjHAAABVWBXQMAA10DAAAU --Boundary_(ID_TLUVnNjANEMIrDClaadRUg)-- From: IN%"Ute.Knierim@tiho-hannover.de" "Ute Knierim" 6-SEP-2001 08:29:37.10 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: response to death of offspring Dear all, please apologise for a request for information for which I cannot "pay back" in any way, but a colleague has asked me, whether there is any serious scientific literature available on signs of emotional response of mammals to loss of their offspring. I did not find anything on this, so I would be grateful for any hint. Best wishes Ute ************************************************************ Dr. Ute Knierim Institut fuer Tierhygiene, Tierschutz und Nutztierethologie Tieraerztliche Hochschule Hannover Institute of Animal Hygiene, Welfare and Farm Animal Behaviour School of Veterinary Medicine Hannover Buenteweg 17 p D-30559 Hannover Tel +49 (0)511 953 8449 Fax +49 (0)511 953 8588 Ute.Knierim@tiho-hannover.de ************************************************************ From: IN%"Nora_Lewis@UManitoba.CA" "Nora Lewis" 6-SEP-2001 08:47:23.98 To: IN%"J.G.van_Dijk.neur@lumc.nl" "Dijk, J.G. van (NEUR)", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: RE: fainting / syncope in animals? Re: faintint and evolution I have always thought that fainting at the sight of blood might be a good evolutionary advantage from a time when we had no help in emergencies. If you are bleeding and your blood pressure suddenly drops and you faint you may clot quicker and lose less blood and survive. Many of us have had the experience of cutting a toenail on a dog too short, the more you struggle with the dog the more it bleeds because the blood pressure climbs and the area is continually being manipulated. Unfortunately dogs don't faint at the sight of blood but often bite at the inducer of the pain. Nora "Dijk, J.G. van (NEUR)" wrote: > I am a neurologist at Leiden University, and am interested in 'vasovagal > syncope', also known as the 'common faint'. This is the type of fainting > that is induced by fear, pain, anxiety, seeing blood, etc. The basis of such > faints is a reflex: a trigger (fear etc) leads to slowing of heart rate and > /or a drop in blood pressure. In other words, the circulation is shut down. > There is no clear advantage in having such a reflex, and yet we all have it. > There are no good medical explanations for its existence. There might be a > link to 'tonic immobility', but this does not seem to occur in primates. > > I was wondering whether fainting due to similar psychological triggers also > occurs in other mammals. I did find one statement on the internet that young > stallions may faint preparatory to copulation, which sounds similar. > However, no details were offered. > > Does anyone know whether or not fainting of the vasovagal type occurs in > mammals? > > J Gert van Dijk > Professor of Clinical Neurophysiology > Leiden University Medical Centre > Leiden, The Netherlands > -- Nora Lewis, Ph.D., DVM Department of Animal Science, University of Manitoba, 12 Dafoe Rd., Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. R3T 2N2 phone: 204 474-9443 fax: 204 474-7628 From: IN%"deethom@erols.com" "Dee" 6-SEP-2001 09:31:34.36 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: fainting / syncope in animals? I thought the "playing dead" in the American opossum was a kind of shock reaction like fainting, when threatened. Dee Parrot Rescue Maryland From: IN%"mplonsky@uwsp.edu" "Plonsky, Mark" 6-SEP-2001 11:36:43.86 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: fainting / syncope in animals? Gert, -----Original Message----- From: Dijk, J.G. van (NEUR) [mailto:J.G.van_Dijk.neur@lumc.nl] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 4:12 AM To: 'Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca' Subject: fainting / syncope in animals? > I . . . am interested in 'vasovagal > syncope', also known as the 'common faint'. > This is the type of fainting that is induced > by fear, pain, anxiety, seeing blood, etc. > The basis of such faints is a reflex: a trigger > (fear etc) leads to slowing of heart rate and/or > a drop in blood pressure. In other words, the > circulation is shut down. There is no clear > advantage in having such a reflex, and yet we > all have it. There are no good medical > explanations for its existence. There might > be a link to 'tonic immobility', but this does > not seem to occur in primates. In published papers (sorry I don't have the references handy), Suarez and Gallop have made some convincing arguments that Tonic Immobility (TI) often occurs during rape in human females and may, in part, be what is occurring in catatonic schizophrenia. Thus, it appears that TI may occur in primates under some circumstances. Be well, Mark --- Mark Plonsky, Ph.D. 715-346-3961 wk --- --- Psychology Dept. 715-346-2778 fx --- --- University of Wisconsin 715-344-0023 hm --- --- Stevens Point, WI 54481 mplonsky@uwsp.edu --- --- http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/mp --- From: IN%"rnewberry@wsu.edu" "Ruth Newberry" 6-SEP-2001 13:19:53.35 To: IN%"Ute.Knierim@tiho-hannover.de" "'Ute Knierim'", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "'applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca'" CC: Subj: RE: response to death of offspring This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --Boundary_(ID_quIYlQCOIGlTNf2W2kG9/Q) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hello Ute, Re emotional response of mammals to loss of offspring, I wrote a chapter with Janice Swanson entitled "Breaking social bonds" for the book "Social Behaviour in Farm Animals" ed. by Linda Keeling and Harold Gonyou, 2001, CABI Publishing. The accounts on responses to death of offspring are primarily anecdotal. Bowlby wrote extensively on human attachment and loss. There have been numerous studies on responses of young to separation from their mother in the context of human intervention to induce weaning (e.g. in cattle, elk, horses, pigs, mink, rats, different species of voles) but these rarely address the behaviour of the mother. The following studies report on the responses of dairy cows to removal of their calves shortly after birth. Hopster, H., O'Connell, J. and Blokhuis, H.J. (1995) Acute effects of cow-calf separation on heart rate, plasma cortisol and behaviour in multiparous dairy cows. Applied Animal Behaviour Science 44, 1-8. Lidfors, L. (1996) Behavioural effects of separating the dairy calf immediately or 4 days post-partum. Applied Animal Behaviour Science 49, 269-283. -----Original Message----- From: Ute Knierim [mailto:Ute.Knierim@tiho-hannover.de] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 8:29 AM To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca Subject: response to death of offspring Dear all, please apologise for a request for information for which I cannot "pay back" in any way, but a colleague has asked me, whether there is any serious scientific literature available on signs of emotional response of mammals to loss of their offspring. I did not find anything on this, so I would be grateful for any hint. Best wishes Ute ************************************************************ Dr. Ute Knierim Institut fuer Tierhygiene, Tierschutz und Nutztierethologie Tieraerztliche Hochschule Hannover Institute of Animal Hygiene, Welfare and Farm Animal Behaviour School of Veterinary Medicine Hannover Buenteweg 17 p D-30559 Hannover Tel +49 (0)511 953 8449 Fax +49 (0)511 953 8588 Ute.Knierim@tiho-hannover.de ************************************************************ --Boundary_(ID_quIYlQCOIGlTNf2W2kG9/Q) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT RE: response to death of offspring

Hello Ute,

Re emotional response of mammals to loss of offspring, I wrote a chapter with Janice Swanson entitled "Breaking social bonds" for the book "Social Behaviour in Farm Animals" ed. by Linda Keeling and Harold Gonyou, 2001, CABI Publishing. The accounts on responses to death of offspring are primarily anecdotal. Bowlby wrote extensively on human attachment and loss. There have been numerous studies on responses of young to separation from their mother in the context of human intervention to induce weaning (e.g. in cattle, elk, horses, pigs, mink, rats, different species of voles) but these rarely address the behaviour of the mother. The following studies report on the responses of dairy cows to removal of their calves shortly after birth.

Hopster, H., O'Connell, J. and Blokhuis, H.J. (1995) Acute effects of cow-calf separation on heart rate, plasma cortisol and behaviour in multiparous dairy cows. Applied Animal Behaviour Science 44, 1-8.

Lidfors, L. (1996) Behavioural effects of separating the dairy calf immediately or 4 days post-partum. Applied Animal Behaviour Science 49, 269-283.


-----Original Message-----
From: Ute Knierim [mailto:Ute.Knierim@tiho-hannover.de]
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 8:29 AM
To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca
Subject: response to death of offspring


Dear all,

please apologise for a request for information for which I cannot
"pay back" in  any way, but a colleague has asked me, whether there
is any serious scientific literature available on signs of
emotional response of mammals to loss of their offspring. I did not
find anything on this, so I would be grateful for any hint.

Best wishes
Ute
************************************************************

Dr. Ute Knierim    Institut fuer Tierhygiene, Tierschutz und
                               Nutztierethologie
                               Tieraerztliche Hochschule Hannover

                               Institute of Animal Hygiene, Welfare and
                               Farm Animal Behaviour  
                               School of Veterinary Medicine Hannover
                     
Buenteweg 17 p
D-30559 Hannover

Tel +49 (0)511 953 8449
Fax +49 (0)511 953 8588

Ute.Knierim@tiho-hannover.de
************************************************************

--Boundary_(ID_quIYlQCOIGlTNf2W2kG9/Q)-- From: IN%"margory@dnai.com" "margory cohen" 6-SEP-2001 14:33:50.42 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Training Guidelines Request Hello - please excuse me writing over yours but that's how my email programs sometimes -- I understand the Delta Society guidelines are now up. Will the AHA guidelines also be on-line please? margory cohen Scottish Deerhounds San Francisco ----- Original Message ----- From: Shetts@aol.com To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 2:00 PM Subject: Re: Training Guidelines Request I posted a reply to Ted privately - but will post to the list as there is some confusion here. Three years ago, Delta Society contracted with AHA to produce a document on humane dog training. I've been the scientific director for that project. To make a long story short, 2 documents will be released in the next few weeks. One from Delta Society, titled Professional Standards for Dog Trainers: Effective, Humane Principles, and one from AHA directed toward the general public which will have a title similar to Guidelines for Humane Dog Training. Representatives from both NADOI (National Association of Dog Obedience INstructors, NOT North Amer. Dog ----- which is no longer in existence) and APDT as well as many other organziations participated in this project. APDT has their own code of ethics separate from the project, and I think NADOI does too - you can check out their respective websites at apdt. com and NADOI.org. From: IN%"Shetts@aol.com" 6-SEP-2001 15:47:59.94 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Training Guidelines Request In a message dated 09/06/2001 2:40:50 PM Mountain Daylight Time, margory@dnai.com writes: > Will the AHA guidelines also be on-line please? > I don't know if they are available on line but they can be purchased for $15 from AHA (303-792-9900) Suzanne Hetts, Ph.D. Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist Animal Behavior Associates, Inc. Littleton, CO www.animalbehaviorassociates.com From: IN%"katmiller@ucdavis.edu" "Katherine Miller" 6-SEP-2001 16:29:16.73 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: feather bleach? Hello, Has anyone ever heard of or used some sort of feather or pelage bleach for marking dark-colored animals (something non-toxic)? I need to mark bobwhite quail chicks (they are brown and black) and black markings are very difficult to see on video. Any ideas? Katherine Miller From: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol (TBC)" 6-SEP-2001 16:53:50.02 To: IN%"Ute.Knierim@tiho-hannover.de" "'Ute Knierim'", IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: response to death of offspring Dear Ute Can you explain what you mean by "emotional"? If you are talking about subjective experiences then we can never say for certain, but we may be able to show whether those feelings are aversive for the animal. We know from behavioural and physiological measures that cows and calves, and ewes and lambs experience 'stress' when they are separated. I have also observed cows to become 'distressed' (behaviourally eg pacing back and forth, bellowing) when their calves have died. Is this an 'emotional response'? I suspect it depends on how you define things. Best wishes Carol > -----Original Message----- > From: Ute Knierim [SMTP:Ute.Knierim@tiho-hannover.de] > Sent: Friday, 7 September 2001 1:29 > To: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca > Subject: response to death of offspring > > Dear all, > > please apologise for a request for information for which I cannot > "pay back" in any way, but a colleague has asked me, whether there > is any serious scientific literature available on signs of > emotional response of mammals to loss of their offspring. I did not > find anything on this, so I would be grateful for any hint. > > Best wishes > Ute > ************************************************************ > > Dr. Ute Knierim Institut fuer Tierhygiene, Tierschutz und > Nutztierethologie > Tieraerztliche Hochschule Hannover > > Institute of Animal Hygiene, Welfare and > Farm Animal Behaviour > School of Veterinary Medicine Hannover > > Buenteweg 17 p > D-30559 Hannover > > Tel +49 (0)511 953 8449 > Fax +49 (0)511 953 8588 > > Ute.Knierim@tiho-hannover.de > ************************************************************ > ********************************DISCLAIMER**************************** The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions contained in the message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Queensland Government and its authorities. If you received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your computer system network. From: IN%"PetherC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au" "Petherick, Carol (TBC)" 6-SEP-2001 17:08:48.87 To: IN%"katmiller@ucdavis.edu" "'Katherine Miller'", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: feather bleach? Katherine I used commercial hair bleach on cattle - it worked to a limited extent ie I could see the marks made by the bleach when I was reasonably close to the animals, but not at any great distance. Also, presumably due to hair-shedding, it only lasted a couple of weeks. It did not appear to have any adverse effects on the skin of the cattle. There have been discussions about marking poultry before on this list, with various warnings (some from me) about marks affecting the behaviour of the birds. We found with meat chickens (white birds) that other birds pecked at the marks - particularly those done with red spray marker. I can't recall all of the other comments, but maybe others who contributed can. Regards Carol > -----Original Message----- > From: Katherine Miller [SMTP:katmiller@ucdavis.edu] > Sent: Friday, 7 September 2001 8:27 > To: Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca > Subject: feather bleach? > > Hello, > > Has anyone ever heard of or used some sort of feather or pelage bleach for > marking dark-colored animals (something non-toxic)? I need to mark > bobwhite quail chicks (they are brown and black) and black markings are > very difficult to see on video. Any ideas? > > Katherine Miller > > > ********************************DISCLAIMER**************************** The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. Opinions contained in the message(s) do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Queensland Government and its authorities. If you received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your computer system network. From: IN%"Shetts@aol.com" 6-SEP-2001 19:42:00.42 To: IN%"rudy.demeester@pi.be", IN%"myriad@ksu.edu" CC: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" Subj: RE: Training Guidelines - help In a message dated 09/02/2001 3:41:15 AM Mountain Daylight Time, rudy.demeester@pi.be writes: > Is there in the ISAE an " > dictionary" that is widely accepted by the scientists and if yes what are > the references. Terms as stereotypie, displacement activity,...there are so > I would suggest three different ethological dictionaries - Immelmann and Beer - A Dictionary of Ethology - 1989, Harvard Univ. Press David McFarland, Ed. The Oxford Companion to ANimal Behavior - Oxford Univ. PRess, 1982 and teh latest and perhaps best and most complete one - Animal Behavior Desk Reference: A Dictionary of Animal Behavior, Ecology and Evolution, 2nd Edition - Edward Barrows, CRC press, 2001 Suzanne Hetts, Ph.D. Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist Animal Behavior Associates, Inc. Littleton, CO www.animalbehaviorassociates.com From: IN%"m.dierendonck@planet.nl" 7-SEP-2001 04:35:50.76 To: IN%"J.G.van_Dijk.neur@lumc.nl" "Dijk, J.G. van (NEUR)", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: fainting / syncope in animals? Hello list, I am an equid ethologist and spend at least 2000 hours observing (semi) wild horses as well as stabled horses and I have never seen any animal faint. Neither do I know it from the literature. I agree with Andy this is probably a case of a young stallion which is raised and housed socially deprived (as unfortunately most (specially) stallions are). For sure it is not common. I do not know of any other fainting mammal. Machteld ============================================================================ ======================= Machteld van Dierendonck m.dierendonck@planet.nl -----Original Message----- From: Dijk, J.G. van (NEUR) [mailto:J.G.van_Dijk.neur@lumc.nl] Sent: 06 September 2001 11:12 To: 'Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca' Subject: fainting / syncope in animals? I am a neurologist at Leiden University, and am interested in 'vasovagal syncope', also known as the 'common faint'. This is the type of fainting that is induced by fear, pain, anxiety, seeing blood, etc. The basis of such faints is a reflex: a trigger (fear etc) leads to slowing of heart rate and /or a drop in blood pressure. In other words, the circulation is shut down. There is no clear advantage in having such a reflex, and yet we all have it. There are no good medical explanations for its existence. There might be a link to 'tonic immobility', but this does not seem to occur in primates. I was wondering whether fainting due to similar psychological triggers also occurs in other mammals. I did find one statement on the internet that young stallions may faint preparatory to copulation, which sounds similar. However, no details were offered. Does anyone know whether or not fainting of the vasovagal type occurs in mammals? J Gert van Dijk Professor of Clinical Neurophysiology Leiden University Medical Centre Leiden, The Netherlands From: IN%"m.dierendonck@planet.nl" 7-SEP-2001 04:35:54.22 To: IN%"Ute.Knierim@tiho-hannover.de" "Ute Knierim", IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology List" CC: Subj: RE: response to death of offspring Ute and others, I have descriptions of perceived 'emotional response' of several mares who loose their foals in a (semi) wild or wild situation. These observations were done while studying the horses in the (semi)wild, to answer other (social organisation and regulation) research questions. So, I did not do any systematic research on the subject, I have no published it, but I can give the anecdotal description of your colleague likes. A lot is published about reactions of primates and elephants loosing their offspring and about reactions to weaning (but that is not what you mean I suppose). Machteld ============================================================================ ======================= Machteld van Dierendonck m.dierendonck@planet.nl -----Original Message----- From: Ute Knierim [mailto:Ute.Knierim@tiho-hannover.de] Sent: 06 September 2001 17:29 To: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca Subject: response to death of offspring Dear all, please apologise for a request for information for which I cannot "pay back" in any way, but a colleague has asked me, whether there is any serious scientific literature available on signs of emotional response of mammals to loss of their offspring. I did not find anything on this, so I would be grateful for any hint. Best wishes Ute ************************************************************ Dr. Ute Knierim Institut fuer Tierhygiene, Tierschutz und Nutztierethologie Tieraerztliche Hochschule Hannover Institute of Animal Hygiene, Welfare and Farm Animal Behaviour School of Veterinary Medicine Hannover Buenteweg 17 p D-30559 Hannover Tel +49 (0)511 953 8449 Fax +49 (0)511 953 8588 Ute.Knierim@tiho-hannover.de ************************************************************ From: IN%"Ute.Knierim@tiho-hannover.de" "Ute Knierim" 7-SEP-2001 05:00:50.02 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: response to death of offspring Dear Carol, my question referred to the subjective experiences of the animals. I had asked for "signs" of emotional response, but indicators of feelings had surely been clearer (and correcter). I would regard behaviour as you described it as such an indicator. However, the problem is not only that we do not know for certain what the animal experiences, but also to what exactly it responds. For instance, is the apparent agitation of the cow elicited just by the unusual (non-)behaviour or other novelty concerning the dead calf or is she able to recognise its death in any way? Moreover, from the studies in weaning it appears that the maternal behaviour (an physiology) indicating distress is mostly relatively short-termed. It were interesting to know if there were any indication of longer term feelings such as griefing. On the hint of Ruth I just had a quick look into her chapter, Newberry and Swanson: Breaking social bonds. It briefly addresses some of such qestions in, I find, an excellent way and gives quite a few references. Thanks for the tip. However, what remains is that we cannot state too much with satisfactory certainty about emotional responses of animals (other than us) to loss and death of offspring or other mates to which a social bond is formed, although some questions would lend themselves to systematic investigation. Thanks once again and best wishes Ute > Can you explain what you mean by "emotional"? If you are talking about > subjective experiences then we can never say for certain, but we may be able > to show whether those feelings are aversive for the animal. We know from > behavioural and physiological measures that cows and calves, and ewes and > lambs experience 'stress' when they are separated. I have also observed > cows to become 'distressed' (behaviourally eg pacing back and forth, > bellowing) when their calves have died. Is this an 'emotional response'? I > suspect it depends on how you define things. > Best wishes > Carol > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ute Knierim [SMTP:Ute.Knierim@tiho-hannover.de] > > Sent: Friday, 7 September 2001 1:29 > > To: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca > > Subject: response to death of offspring > > > > Dear all, > > > > please apologise for a request for information for which I cannot > > "pay back" in any way, but a colleague has asked me, whether there > > is any serious scientific literature available on signs of > > emotional response of mammals to loss of their offspring. I did not > > find anything on this, so I would be grateful for any hint. > > > > Best wishes > > Ute ************************************************************ Dr. Ute Knierim Institut fuer Tierhygiene, Tierschutz und Nutztierethologie Tieraerztliche Hochschule Hannover Institute of Animal Hygiene, Welfare and Farm Animal Behaviour School of Veterinary Medicine Hannover Buenteweg 17 p D-30559 Hannover Tel +49 (0)511 953 8449 Fax +49 (0)511 953 8588 Ute.Knierim@tiho-hannover.de ************************************************************ From: IN%"whfeep@ihug.co.nz" "Andy Beck" 7-SEP-2001 05:56:44.16 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: response to death of offspring Machteld, Ute and list I have observed several mares after foal loss and have found no constant reaction. There is a hypothesis that first foals, or calves, are a kind of trial run preparing the mare or cow for later successful events. I am not at all sure how much of a consensus there may be with regard to this idea, however first time losses seem to result in a much less emotional reaction. My observations range from a mare that had foaled malformed (non viable) twins, where there was no apparent emotional upset or grieving process at all - through to a 'group bereavement' following the death of three foals within the same band within a space of 72 hours, in which all mares without foals at foot plus the harem stallion took part, and which lasted three days. The latter case an event I freely admit to having no explanation for. I have covered this in an article on my site at http://www.equine-behavior.com . One thing that did arise from the 'group event' was that after that I have made a point of not removing any dead foal until after the mare has clearly lost interest and moved right away from the location, and have advised other owners to do the same. This appears to allow the mares an undisturbed period in which to adjust to the loss (in human terms to grieve) and so prevents the depression that can follow. List members will be aware that Vets will usually order foals or calves to be buried immediately, preventing this adjustment phase. I have an idea that the degree of emotion displayed may differ according to the 'impact'. If this is the case then a young mare losing a first foal does not have a high impact - either for the individual, or the group of which she is a member, as (all things being well) she has ample time left to reproduce several times. For an older mare, particularly one having no live progeny, the loss would be much more serious and therefore may have a greater emotional impact. I am very interested in your observations Machteld, and wonder if there is any correlation with my own. It is difficult to research these things systematically as the people involved are often very emotional also - as indeed I was myself when the group event occurred. Quite one of the most fascinating things I have ever witnessed in equine behavior, but equally very sad. I hesitate to mention this last point as it does seem very anthropomorphic to me! I have discussed the three day period with a number of people over the past few years, and it is striking that many human cultures recognise this as a formal mourning period. I draw no conclusions! Warm regards Andy Beck From: IN%"margory@dnai.com" "margory cohen" 7-SEP-2001 09:45:11.26 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Training Guidelines Request Thank you; I will followup. Going thru the Delta Society guidelines now. margory cohen ----- Original Message ----- From: Shetts@aol.com To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 2:47 PM Subject: Re: Training Guidelines Request In a message dated 09/06/2001 2:40:50 PM Mountain Daylight Time, margory@dnai.com writes: Will the AHA guidelines also be on-line please? I don't know if they are available on line but they can be purchased for $15 from AHA (303-792-9900) Suzanne Hetts, Ph.D. Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist Animal Behavior Associates, Inc. Littleton, CO www.animalbehaviorassociates.com From: IN%"pbmcconn@facstaff.wisc.edu" "Trisha McConnell" 7-SEP-2001 10:11:30.27 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: reaction to death in other species Very interesting discussion regarding the reaction of other species to the death of offspring. I am currently writing a book titled "The Other End of the Leash" ---- focusing on the ethology of human behavior around dogs, and will include a short section on grieving. I'd be very interested in any anecdoctal or experimental observations that others have about canids and their reactions to the death of a group member (not necessarily offspring). for what it's worth, here are a few of my observations: One of my dogs, a 12.5 year old Border collie died in the evening. I let her "lie in state" all night, and carefully observed the behavior of my other 3 dogs. Her granddaughter (a mature polyparous female), who had solicited her attention all her life and who was a submissive, non-status seeking dog, circled her body immediately after her death, for approx five minutes, and then lay down within a foot of her body for about an hour. After that she ignored the body. Another mature, unspayed breeding female, who had lived in some tension with the dead dog for many years (no fights, but Mist, the dead female, would give the other hard, stiff-bodied stares) acted like a spooked horse. She appeared afraid of the body, leaning foward to sniff it with the rest of her body as far away as possible and then bolting away. She snorted several times and would not actually sniff the body until the next morning. She behaved as though she perceived the dead dog as a danger, but didn't understand this strange behavior and thus couldn't predict it. Of course I can't begin to say that I understood what was in her head, but her behavior was consistent with fear and confusion. The third dog, a confident and calm intact male, paid the body virtually no attention until the next morning I finally called him over and asked him to sniff the body on cue. He's trained to sniff an object on cue, and he did. As soon as he did he threw his head up and looked straight into my eyes as though he was shocked. I can't begin to speculate what was going on cognitively or emotionally. I also kept the body for my own sake, and found it very soothing to be able to pad downstairs and stroke the body of a dog I had loved so much. It was as though it provided a bridge between Mist when she was alive and having no Mist in my life at all any more. I would appreciate receiving observations of reactions to death in other species for my book - especially apes and wolves. thank you Trisha From: IN%"margory@dnai.com" "margory cohen" 7-SEP-2001 14:03:33.98 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: Training Guidelines Request Thank you; I will followup. Going thru the Delta Society guidelines now. margory cohen ----- Original Message ----- From: Shetts@aol.com To: applied-ethology@skyway.usask.ca Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 2:47 PM Subject: Re: Training Guidelines Request In a message dated 09/06/2001 2:40:50 PM Mountain Daylight Time, margory@dnai.com writes: Will the AHA guidelines also be on-line please? I don't know if they are available on line but they can be purchased for $15 from AHA (303-792-9900) Suzanne Hetts, Ph.D. Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist Animal Behavior Associates, Inc. Littleton, CO www.animalbehaviorassociates.com From: IN%"jcrenner@psych.purdue.edu" "Jennifer Renner" 7-SEP-2001 18:19:52.01 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: introduction Hello, my name is Jennifer Renner. I am currently in the process of attaining my PhD in in Psychology, specifically learning and memory in non-human animals. My research encompasses work with pigeons in their ability to discriminate among visually presented numerosity arrays, as these arrays pertain to optimal foraging. I am currently at Purdue University, but began my research in this area, only with rats, while at the University of Hartford in Hartford, Connecticut where I attained my master's degree. In addition, my research is also focused on the evolutionary basis of this behavior in avian species, as well as the Great Apes and domesticated species such as ferrets. I look forward to the discussions generated by this applied ethology group and would like to extend my greetings. Cheers, Jennifer C. Renner, M.A. Dept. of Psychological Sciences Learning and Memory Area Purdue University West Lafayette, IN 47901 USA From: IN%"Marc.Vandenheede@ulg.ac.be" "Marc Vandenheede" 10-SEP-2001 04:38:56.05 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: ethology of laboratory animals Hello everybody, I'm preparing lectures on Applied Ethology of Laboratory Animals and= therefore I'm looking for all useful references (books, review papers,= videos, ...). Thank you for your advices! Sincerely yours, Marc
ffff,0000,0000Marc Vandenheede Universit=E9 de Li=E8ge Facult=E9 de M=E9decine V=E9t=E9rinaire Service d'Hygi=E8ne et Bioclimatologie (Ethologie appliqu=E9e aux animaux domestiques) Bd de Colonster, B=E2t. B43 4000 Li=E8ge Belgium t=E9l.: 32/(0)4/366.41.48 fax.: 32/(0)4/366.41.22 GSM: 32/(0)474/74.84.08 0000,0000,ffffemail: Marc.Vandenheede@ulg.ac.be
From: IN%"whfeep@ihug.co.nz" "Andy Beck" 10-SEP-2001 05:53:15.53 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: RE: ethology of laboratory animals Hi Marc and all. The following was taken from English newspaper the Guardian: Cage life may drive lab animals so insane that experiments are invalid=20 James Meek Guardian=20 Tuesday August 28, 2001=20 It is a scientist's reward: after feeding a laboratory mouse an untried = medicine, or turning it into a cocaine addict, or flashing lights at it, = the rodent appears to get smarter, or slower, or more discerning. Do it = a hundred times, and you have got a research paper - or a billion-pound = drug.=20 But what if the mouse, in the bleak, confined circumstances of its = laboratory cage, has gone quietly insane before the experiment even = begins?=20 That is the possibility being raised by US scientists who say they have = found evidence that the sheer boredom of life as a captive lab animal = may be enough to incur brain damage.=20 If true, it would call into question the validity of many experiments, = particularly in behavioural research where scientists draw conclusions = based on changes in the ability of rodents to carry out tasks.=20 Joseph Garner, a behavioural scientist at the University of California, = in Davis, told a conference earlier this month that was evidence that a = type of repetitive behaviour called stereotypies, common in caged = animals, was caused by brain damage. In humans, stereotypies - rhythmic, = involuntary actions or repetitive limb movements - are believed to be = linked to damage in a part of the brain called the basal ganglia. = Similar behaviour in lab animals has up until now been thought of as = superficial tics in normal animals.=20 But when Dr Garner applied a test for basal ganglia damage to caged = parrots, he found that the birds with a characteristic brain damaged = response were the same birds which displayed stereotypies such as = feather plucking. He is now applying the test to mice.=20 The journal Nature, which reported on Dr Garner's work in a recent = issue, recalled that stereotypies in lab rodents were only discovered in = 1996 when a Swiss researcher used an infra red camera to find out what = mice got up to when their keepers switched off the lights and went home. = In the darkness, the mice began an obsessive ritual of bar biting and = cage scratching - classic stereotypies.=20 Underlining the possible link between the dull sameness of cage life and = mouse madness, the journal pointed out that studies last year showed = making life more interesting for lab animals, by allowing mice and rats = to socialise with siblings for instance, made the creatures' brains = bigger.=20 "I think it sounds reasonable," said Nick Neave, a behavioural = psychologist at the University of Northumbria. "We've known for many = years that if you give animals plenty of stimulation in a lab = environment they behave differently from animals in a bare cage. I think = it does raise some very important issues, not just ethically but = scientifically, where scientists are saying 'well, this means so and = so', when it may not be so clear cut."=20 The Home Office code of practice recommends that breeders and suppliers = of lab rodents give a single mouse 200sq cm of cage space, and a single = rat 500-800sq cm. The Home Office also recommends "cage enrichment" for = "environmental complexity". But this is not compulsory.=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Regards Andy Beck ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Marc Vandenheede=20 To: applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca=20 Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 10:33 PM Subject: ethology of laboratory animals Hello everybody, I'm preparing lectures on Applied Ethology of Laboratory Animals and = therefore I'm looking for all useful references (books, review papers, = videos, ...). Thank you for your advices! Sincerely yours, Marc Marc Vandenheede Universit=E9 de Li=E8ge Facult=E9 de M=E9decine V=E9t=E9rinaire Service d'Hygi=E8ne et Bioclimatologie (Ethologie appliqu=E9e aux animaux domestiques) Bd de Colonster, B=E2t. B43 4000 Li=E8ge Belgium t=E9l.: 32/(0)4/366.41.48 fax.: 32/(0)4/366.41.22 GSM: 32/(0)474/74.84.08 email: Marc.Vandenheede@ulg.ac.be From: IN%"meredith@farmline.com" "Michael Meredith" 10-SEP-2001 13:46:50.74 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Ethology Posting" CC: Subj: RE: Ethology of laboratory animals Hi Marc! There is a useful lecture on toxicological usage of laboratory animals, entitled "Animals as Sentinels of Environmental Hazards" which is available on-line, together with some lectures on Human-Animal Interactions that may be of interest, at: http://www.pighealth.com/Scourse/zoonoses.htm A booklist on ethology is also accessible from the above lecture list. Best Wishes Mike Meredith From: IN%"whfeep@ihug.co.nz" "Andy Beck" 12-SEP-2001 00:15:20.54 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: BEHAVIORAL & PHYSIOLOGICAL RESPONSES............. Hello all I am looking for the full version of the following abstract and wonder if anyone can help? http://www.usask.ca/wcvm/herdmed/applied-ethology/ISAE/ISAEabstrt/rivera.html BEHAVIORAL AND PHYSIOLOGICAL RESPONSES OF HORSES TO INITIAL TRAINING: THE COMPARISON BETWEEN PASTURE VERSUS STALLED HORSES E. Rivera; S. Benjamin; A. Morrison; L. Callender; B. D. Nielsen and A. J. Zanella. Michigan State University, East Lansing, MI. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Regards and best wishes to all Andy Beck White Horse Equine Ethology Project http://www.equine-behavior.com Northland, Aotearoa (New Zealand) From: IN%"Heath@vetethol.demon.co.uk" "Sarah Heath" 13-SEP-2001 03:47:25.29 To: IN%"applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: FW: Society for veterinary ethology proceedings Dear All I have received the following request - does anyone know if it is possible to get a copy of this article or does anyone have a copy that they could photocopy and send to me for this person. Many thanks Sarah Sarah Heath BVSc MRCVS Behavioural Referrals 11 Cotebrook Drive Upton Chester Cheshire CH2 1RA England Tel: 44 1244 377365 Fax: 44 1244 399228 Email: heath@vetethol.demon.co.uk Dear Sarah I am trying in vain to trace a copy of the undernoted article. I wondered if you might be able to tell me where I can get copy of proceedings or how I can get in touch with the author. society for veterinary ethology proceedings 1991 edinburgh effective mixing peaceful or aggressive pigs at abattoirs on their behaviour and meat quality hensen, LL Thanks in advance From: IN%"grahamhayman@altavista.com" 13-SEP-2001 11:44:48.34 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" CC: Subj: stress in therapeutic horses Hello, This is my first message to the list. I'm a freelance writer in Vancouver, Canada, and previously (until 1998), a TV journalism teacher at Rhodes University in South Africa. As a freelance writer I've published on a variety of subjects - regulation of complementary medicines, tertiary education policy, poverty alleviation, the arts. My presence on this list comes from my new interest in therapeutic riding: it's a subset of the expanding field of animal assisted therapy. Horses are used to assist therapy for physically disabled or, by psychotherapists, for psychologically traumatised people. I've written one article on this subject(see http://www.clipclop.com/info/featuresreviews/featuredarticles/02jan01_horsepower_p1.shtml). For a second article I'm about to complete for an animal welfare magazine, on stress in therapeutic horses, I would appreciate any comments on how to identify, prevent and treat this stress. Also, on how best to select horses for this work. I hope someone on the list shares this interest! Best, Graham Graham Hayman Writer 2456 West 8th Ave Vancouver B.C. V6K 2B1 Canada tel (604)-733-0633 Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com From: IN%"ADSweazey@ak.net" "April Sweazey" 15-SEP-2001 14:07:22.77 To: IN%"Applied-ethology@sask.usask.ca" "Applied Ethology" CC: Subj: introduction My name is April D. Sweazey and I am from Anchorage, Alaska USA. I am currently a senior undergrad student who is very interested in this field. As of today my knowledge is far from even a novice level, but I am pursuing an internship at the zoo here in town. (Don't laugh, even in Anchorage we have a zoo!) Any advice of information will be much appreciated. April Dawn Sweazey